Podcast Summary: Normal Gossip

Holiday Bonus: That's Fourth Wing, Baby!

Date: December 24, 2025
Host: Rachel Hampton
Guests: Kelsey McKinney, Brandy Jensen

Episode Overview

This holiday bonus episode of Normal Gossip is a zesty, irreverent, wine-fueled deep dive into “Fourth Wing,” the hit Romantasy novel by Rebecca Yarros. Recorded live from the annual Defector retreat’s hotel room floor, host Rachel Hampton and guests Kelsey McKinney and Brandy Jensen joyously dissect the book’s plot, tropes, worldbuilding, and kink potential, all with the chaotic affection of seasoned romance and fantasy readers. Expect a blend of literary critique, gossip-style tangents, and a heavy dose of laughter.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Romantasy, Book Trends & Reader Credentials

• Backgrounds with the genre: All three panelists share their “bona fides” as long-time fantasy, romance, and Romantasy fans, including admissions of Twilight self-insert fanfic, YA love, and recent dives into TikTok-fueled Romantasy trends.

  • “My intro to writing was writing self-insert Twilight fanfiction. Which is why I am here. This is why I'm the woman I am today. So Romantasy is deep in my bones.” — Rachel [06:49]

• Rebecca Yarros and market trends: Yarros is noted for her military romance origins, which heavily flavor “Fourth Wing.” The book itself is described as a product of publishing trends rather than pure creative vision.

  • “Her agent was like, oh, there's a big interest in Romantasy. Do you want to, like, can you write? Can you insert fantasy into like the military romances that you already have been writing? And this is where Fourth Wing comes. I find that dynamic fascinating and like a little unsettling.” — Kelsey [09:07]

2. Recapping & Roasting the Plot of Fourth Wing

• Premise breakdown: Set in a relentless war-mongering society where every child is conscripted, protagonist Violet Sorengale is forced by her militaristic mother to train as a Dragon Rider despite a chronic illness (Ehlers Danlos syndrome) — a clear author self-insert.

  • “Violet, I know you trained to be reading books, but you're gonna go ride a dragon even though you have a disease that is very clearly Ehlers Danlos syndrome…” — Rachel [14:58]

• Worldbuilding skepticism: The hosts openly pick apart the logic of the world, including the implausibility of a society that sends its nobleborn youth to near-certain death and the unclear mechanics of magic and military structure.

  • “You would think at some point there might be some kind of popular uprising that says, hey, can you stop feeding our children into like the meat grinder of this endless war, Please and thank you… I just do not buy that rich people… are actually willing to sacrifice their own in service to the cause.” — Brandy [16:22]

• The Mary Sue problem: Violet’s every flaw quickly becomes a strength; her chronic illness oddly empowers her, and the plot’s stakes never truly threaten her survival.

  • “Violet is the definition of, I think, like a Mary sue character in that every single one of her flaws just ends up being her strength.” — Rachel [22:46]

3. Romantasy Tropes: Collected and Displayed

• Trope overload: The book is noted — both fondly and critically — for mashing together every imaginable romance and fantasy trope: enemies to lovers, love triangle, mean mommy, picturesque trauma, “mate” bonds, magical animal symbolism…

  • “Rebecca Yarros clearly just took a list of tropes and then was like, I can put them all in there. Watch me. I will. And I have to hand it to her on that.” — Brandy [25:41]

• Romantasy’s unique anxieties: The conversation pivots to how fated-mate and destiny mechanics in Romantasy address contemporary dating anxieties — removing ambiguity and promising eternal attachment.

  • “The fantasy is not the dragons. The fantasy is that you will have a man who is, like, enamored of you, that he realizes it will lead him to ruination if he got even slightly close to be fucking clear.” — Kelsey [36:00]

4. Sex, Kinks, and “Fourth Wing” Spice

• The dragons’ role in romance: Much is made of the book’s built-in “horny” mechanic — riders psychically bonded to dragons, who, when mating, trigger overwhelming arousal in their humans.

  • “Your dragon is having sex and you can't figure out how to separate his horny from your horny. Like, okay, great, I'm locked in. Sure.” — Brandy [27:31]

• Mormon/Christian undertones & sexual limits:

  • “Is this a Christian book? …And then, you know what happened? I went to the acknowledgments, and the first line is like, I want to thank our Heavenly Father. And I was like, I fucking called it.” — Brandy [32:37]
  • The group riffs on how “spicy” scenes are always in service to fated partnerships and, despite dragons and magic, never get kinkier than vanilla sex — a running, exasperated joke.
  • “I'm begging you, like, have somebody lick an armpit. Like, something. Just one thing, please. Can I just get, like, a foot in a mouth? Can I get something?...I want them to fuck the dragons. Same.” — Kelsey [43:11, 43:36]

• Contemporary language vs. fantasy world: Ridicule erupts over use of phrases like “for the win” in a feudal/magical society.

  • “That was the moment where I texted my friend and I was just like, why is this feudal society that's been at war for 400 years using the phrase for the win? And she was like, that's fourth wing, baby.” — Rachel [44:25]

5. Book Structure, Audiobooks, and Reader Experience

• Audiobook discoveries: Two of the three panelists finished the book via audio; this leads to laughter about the “dragon voice” and how the audiobook made the experience much more palatable.

  • “This is the first time I've understood the appeal of audiobooks. …when it's being read to you at 1.2x speed and you're playing a little phone game at the same time, optimal reading experience.” — Rachel [52:12]

• Reading recommendations, despite everything: Despite all critiques and eyerolls, all three agree it’s great as “trash” — addictive, quickly consumed, and recommendable for pure entertainment.

  • “I would recommend it as. As a reading experience. I would not recommend it as a book. And these are…potentially two different categories for me.” — Kelsey [51:44, 51:53]

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “To me, it was what I'm looking for in the Romantasy experience… the feeling of having information sort of caress the outside of my brain without ever settling into any of the creases or burdening me with anything that even remotely approaches knowledge.” — Kelsey [05:30]
• “Who among us has not experienced a political awakening because of a hot guy?” — Kelsey [29:03]
• “I'm begging you, like, have somebody lick an armpit. Like, something. Just one thing, please. Can I just get, like, a foot in a mouth? Can I get something?” — Kelsey [43:11]
• “I'm so happy for the two of you that, like, the floor of your shame is so much higher than the floor of my shame.” — Kelsey [55:40]
• “If you liked the book, good for you. We also liked it in our own special and beautiful and evil ways…we will be recommending it.” — Rachel [57:04]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening chatter, end-of-year/season reflections: [00:00–04:00]
• Book club intro and panelist credentials: [05:04–09:07]
• About Rebecca Yarros & Romantasy genre trends: [09:07–10:22]
• Plot summary and worldbuilding issues: [14:22–20:18]
• Tropes, character archetypes, and love triangles: [25:01–26:58]
• Romantasy tropes and sexual tension: [27:24–33:06]
• On Christian undertones/of “fated mates”: [32:49–36:17]
• Discussion of the book’s “spice” and kink limits: [42:29–46:29]
• Modern slang in fantasy settings: [44:25–45:43]
• Roses and thorns, meta reflections, and final recommendations: [49:29–57:14]
• Closeout laughter, plugs, and sign off: [57:41–end]

Overall Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is witty, unserious, and joyfully snarky, delighting in both the pleasures and the absurdities of popular Romantasy fiction. The hosts mock the book’s weaknesses while still clearly relishing the fun, escapism, and reader kinship Romantasy offers.

In their words:

“We respect. We let people enjoy things. If you liked the book, good for you. We also liked it in our own special and beautiful and evil ways and we will be recommending it.” — Rachel [57:04]

For Listeners Who Haven’t Read “Fourth Wing”:

You’ll be entertained, find out what the hype is about, and gain new insights into the cultural role of Romantasy—even if, as the hosts say, none of the world-building makes sense and all the dragons stay (sadly) un-fucked.