Losing Control of the Algo with Laci Mosley

Summary

Normal Gossip – Season 10, Episode: “Losing Control of the Algo with Laci Mosley”
Release Date: July 29, 2026
Host: Rachel Hampton
Guest: Laci Mosley

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Episode Overview

This episode of Normal Gossip is a riotous trip through the world of micro-influencer drama, friendship boundaries, and the absurd lengths people go to maintain illusions—on vacation and online. Comedian and actress Laci Mosley returns, bringing her signature wit to the latest morsel of anonymous gossip, dissecting the twisted logic of influencer culture, and examining the blurred lines between performance and reality. The hosts dissect a tangled friend group, a breakup hidden for the ‘gram, and the messy business of making your relationship content pay.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reunion & Views on Gossip (00:42–05:02)

• Laci Mosley reflects on her enduring relationship with gossip, likening her approach to “operational security”—sharing tea only with trustworthy, distant outlets.
  • “As long as it’s like, you tell me something messy, I’m going to tell somebody 10 states away who’s never met you and never will. That’s how I keep my gossip alive without getting caught.” — Mosley (02:44)
• Rachel and Laci reminisce about the importance of keeping your secrets safe, referencing “therapy speak” being weaponized by men on reality TV.
• A funny, self-aware aside about watching Love Island and recognizing how reality TV participants use “therapy terminology” as manipulation currency.

2. Laci’s On-Set Gossip Tale (05:02–13:37)

• Laci shares a chaotic and comedic series of on-set stories from a production staffed by questionably qualified locals.
  • Crew members moonlight as drug (cocaine) suppliers and animal trainers, the raccoon handler is also making lunch sandwiches, and a fight choreographer literally hurts people.
  • Memorable Story: The “vibrating production assistant”—A key crew member is rumored (and then confirmed via photo) to be masturbating throughout workdays:
    • “The sound operator tells me one day, ‘That’s not a tick. That lady is constantly masturbating…’” — Mosley (10:08)
• The chain of gossip flows through Laci’s own “gossip pyramid scheme,” using the on-set drug dealer as a primary intel source.
• A running gag about how nobody on staff was remotely trained: “We had a lot of sound issues, actually…I’m pretty sure I did an ADR session—this is some of the worst sound they’ve ever had to deal with.” — Mosley (13:02)

3. Micro-Influencer Culture & Realities (16:51–22:43)

• Rachel introduces this episode’s story: micro-influencers, defined as folks with under 100k followers “feeding the algorithm.”
• Laci, who knows influencers big and small, emphasizes the immense work required:
  • “It takes a ton of work to look like you’re not doing shit…you can’t take days off because the algorithm punishes you if you don’t feed the monster.” (17:16)
• Laci pokes at the cringe in-between of influencer-aspiration—comparing actors, podcasters, and content creators all living the “cringe” before success.
• The influencer cadence (“Guys! Life is changing! We just closed on a house!”) gets performed to hilarious effect by Laci.

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Main Gossip Story: “The Breakup for the Algorithm” (20:53–64:44)

The Players

• Madeline: The narrator’s friend, codependent bestie to Emma.
• Emma: Type-A, love-bomby, rapidly escalating friend who drags everyone into her orbit—and her micro-influencer ambitions.
• Caleb: Emma’s hot, handy carpenter boyfriend (later ex), chill “third roommate.”
• Gabby: Caleb’s canny little sister, party-starter and drafted as unpaid influencer crew.

1. Friendship Origins & Influencer Ascent (20:53–28:53)

• Madeline & Emma’s friendship starts in college—Emma is ultra-accommodating and soon, their lives (and social circles) are completely entwined.
• Emma meets Caleb during a secondhand furniture quest; he’s helpful, handsome, and they quickly become a couple. Gabby (Caleb’s sister) becomes part of the crew soon after, solidifying a tight friend group.
• As COVID-19 hits, everyone’s plans shift: Madeline moves home; Emma and Caleb buy a fixer-upper and start a couple’s Instagram account. Their videos blow up modestly—18,000 followers, brand deals—and Emma quits her job to “focus” on content.

2. Business over Friendship (28:53–32:43)

• Emma offers Madeline a job editing videos, thinly veiling it as fun collaboration but offering no real compensation or partnership; Madeline refuses, unwilling to become Emma’s overworked underling.
• Emma then enlists Gabby, who is bored, jobless, and easily “voluntold.”
• “She really trying to find somebody who could be easily homeless.” — Mosley (29:20)

3. The Italy Trip & The Big Secret (32:43–39:20)

• Madeline plans her “hot back summer”—a six month solo Euro trip, but Emma, Caleb, and Gabby agree to join her for two weeks in Italy.
• Right before the trip, Emma quietly informs Madeline: she and Caleb have broken up, but need to conceal it for the sake of their “couple” sponsorships and “content obligations.” Only Madeline and Gabby will know—they’re to keep it secret from the public until after Italy:
  • “We’re still friends and we’re still planning to come to Italy together…we just got a big sponsorship, so we need to keep posting.” — Emma (36:49)

4. The Scheming Unravels in Europe (39:20–57:39)

• Madeline and Gabby meet in Italy—and discover that Gabby had NO idea about the breakup secret. Gabby’s reaction: delight that finally, she can stop editing out so many Caleb/Emma fights from their content!
  • “Honestly, thank God. You do not know how many times I’ve had to edit their fights out of videos.” — Gabby (41:55)
• The next days are a surreal charade: Emma and Caleb oscillate between performative PDA for the camera and icy camaraderie off it. Gabby and Madeline exchange wild “what is actually happening?” looks.
• An old Italian man gives Caleb a hard time for not proposing, while Gabby eggs it on (“Yeah, Caleb, why haven’t you proposed yet?”). Everyone is performing.
• Gabby eventually rebels against Emma’s perfectionism (“Third takes are for paying customers only”)—it becomes clear Emma’s content empire is run like a corporation, not a friendship.
  • “Emma is running a corporation. She said, this is Love Company, okay? And y’all need to get with the program.” — Mosley (53:39)
• The climax: Gabby bails on an overbearing dinner, returning later with three Italian hotties, and excludes Emma from the fun: “Single girls only.” Emma persists in keeping up appearances, but the ruse cracks—they never directly tell Gabby or Madeline what’s happening.

5. Aftermath & The Big Reveal (57:39–64:44)

• Post-trip, Emma and Caleb publish a dramatic breakup post (“They’re holding hands and then they drop and walk off camera”).
• They include a breakup FAQ on their story, falsely stating both Gabby and Madeline knew about everything. In reality, Gabby only learned via the footage she was sent to edit (“That’s how I found out.”).
  • “They just sent me the footage and asked me to make the video…” — Gabby (59:17)
• Gabby confronts her brother; Caleb thought Emma had told her, Emma claims she “just forgot”—nobody buys it.
• Rachel and Laci cackle over the narcissism—and irrelevance—of influencer drama:
  • “There’s truly nothing worse than thinking you got motion, and then you don’t got no motion.” — Mosley (64:03)

6. Epilogue (64:44–64:57)

• Caleb remains a carpenter; Emma moves to the city, sells the house (all DIY renovations were done incorrectly), and embraces a “digital detox” (publicly, of course).
  • “I love that she told us about the detox before she did it…then she would have to drop the FAQs of why she was doing it.” — Mosley (64:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On keeping gossip secure:
  “If I really need to tell somebody, I’m going to tell somebody 10 states away who’s never met you and never will.” — Laci Mosley (02:44)
• On on-set chaos:
  “The raccoon lady…was, like, fist fighting with the raccoon…Next day, the raccoon lady is gone. Tell me why she’s now making sandwiches.” — Mosley (08:50)
• On influencer work ethic:
  “It takes a ton of work to look like you’re not doing shit…you can’t miss any trends…the algorithm punishes you if you don’t feed the monster.” — Mosley (17:16)
• On Emma’s micro-influencer empire:
  “Emma is running a corporation. She said, this is Love Company, okay? And y’all need to get with the program…she’s got quarterly projections!” — Mosley (53:39)
• On the meaninglessness of micro-influencer drama:
  “There’s truly nothing worse than thinking you got motion, and then you don’t got no motion…humility, girl.” — Mosley (64:03)

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Essential Timestamps

• 00:42–02:44 – Laci’s return, their evolving relationship to gossip
• 05:02–13:37 – Laci’s on-set gossip pyramid story
• 16:51–22:43 – Modern influencer hustle; Laci’s take on the “algo”
• 20:53–28:53 – The start of the friendship/influencer house drama
• 32:43–39:20 – Breakup secret before Italy trip
• 39:20–57:39 – The Italian vacation: secrets, performance, and cracks
• 57:39–64:44 – The (anti-)climax; pointless FAQ; no one cares
• 64:44–64:57 – Where are they now? Digital detox for Emma

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Tone & Style Highlights

• A fast, joke-laden, irreverent tone; constant sarcasm; affectionate side-eye at the characters’ delusions and obsessions
• Laci’s comedic timing and observations sharpen the episode’s satirical lens—every friendship dynamic and influencer tic is skewered with glee
• The story is a love letter to secondhand embarrassment and a warning about mixing business, love, and #sponcon

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For listeners and non-listeners alike:
This episode is a wonderfully meta breakdown of influencer performance, the blurred lines of friendship and business, and the way small-time Internet drama reflects (and warps) real-world relationships. Laci and Rachel’s hilarious, generous recap makes you grateful your friendships aren’t underwritten by grout sponsorships or micro-influencer FAQs—even if they’re occasionally just as messy.

Transcript

[Rachel Hampton]

This is Ira Glass on this American Life.

[Lacey Moseley]

One thing we like is a good

[Rachel Hampton]

mystery sometimes about really big things, things you hear in the news. But most times, the little mysteries are the best. Our lost and found is currently filled with pants.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I don't know.

[Rachel Hampton]

I've never seen this happen. I've got skirts. I've got shorts.

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This is true.

[Rachel Hampton]

This is true.

[Lacey Moseley]

Mysteries of every size each week. This American Life.

[Rachel Hampton]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, my God. What?

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, my God. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, my God.

[Lacey Moseley]

What? Oh, my gosh.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

What?

[Rachel Hampton]

Hello, and welcome Back to season 10 of Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we are going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. As y' all know by now, we came to the season determined to bring back some of your all time favorites, which is why I'm so pleased to say that today's guest is none other than Lacey Moseley. Lacey Mosley is an actress and comedian known for her starring roles in Fox's Going Dutch and the icarly revival, as well as hosting the award winning Scam Goddess podcast dedicated to fraud and all those who practice it. Lacey was a guest on this show all the way back in season one. And after her iconic episode, leave him a little bit broke, a little bit mad, AKA the episode with the sorority sisters in the handkerchief, none of us have ever been the same. Lacey, welcome back.

[Lacey Moseley]

Hello, Rachel. Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Hampton]

I am so happy to be here because this is the first time that we've actually been in the studio together. But you are. I don't know if you know this, but you are one of Normal Gossip's biggest stars. Everyone loves your episode. When we ask, what is your favorite episode, everyone is like the one with Lacey. When are you getting Lacey back? So thank you so much for coming back.

[Lacey Moseley]

Thank you. Thank you for having me back. Yes. We was locked in. I remember the wedding shenanigans and now I'm living them myself.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh. Ooh.

[Lacey Moseley]

You know, you know, I feel like every person reaches a certain age and it's like, depends on whatever your friend group is, like, where everyone just starts getting married at the same time. So I'm in that, like, wedding. Bachelorette. Wedding. Bachelorette. Baby, baby.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. I feel that. So you and I were both on the very first season of Normal gossip, which was nine whole seasons ago. We are now in season 10. And I wanted to ask, has your relationship with Gossip Changed at all since then?

[Lacey Moseley]

No, I think I had a great relationship, to be honest. Like, things are really going steady over here. We're about to, you know, reach our third anniversary. You know, been getting teased, you know, since the playground, had my Capri sun and was ready to stab a hole in that bitch. Okay. Because I wanted to know what was going on. Yes, I. I think I had a good principle established. As long as it's like, you tell me something messy. If I really need to tell somebody, I'm going to tell somebody 10 states away who's never met you and never will. You know, that's how I keep my gossip alive without getting caught.

[Rachel Hampton]

Exactly. I call that operational security, where you have to make sure, yeah, your shit is on lock. I don't need things getting back to me.

[Lacey Moseley]

I love that. But the way that you phrased it now feels like I've had like a therapy session and like. No, no, no, no. This is healthy what I'm doing. I need to tell your business to my homegirl in Jersey because it's a part of my healing process now. I feel like a toxic man who went to therapy. I'm just going to leave with all the phrases and just be using them wrong. I just feel like you're gaslighting me when you ask me to do my laundry. You know what I mean? It's like you're standing right next to the washer. Like, you should do it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Lacey. I'm watching Love island right now, and I'm just like, these men have learned too much. And also not enough. Nothing, nothing but enough for a 22

[Lacey Moseley]

year old to really be out here in these streets. I was like, y' all got this. The words popping, exactly.

[Rachel Hampton]

They're like, you know what I love? You know, black women, I love to, you know, I love to be soft. I love, I love to take care of my woman.

[Lacey Moseley]

Soon as a baddie light skin come in, this man flying off his seat. I feel blessed. Oh, she look just like my ex girlfriend. O wa some of that honey bee light skin. Like, sir, we literally saw it. We literally saw you. Sincere is my favorite. Okay, Warm regards. Be killing me because, sir, you got me not believing my eyes. You telling everybody, the men, the women, and your date and the person you with that you. You feel this way and I'm watching you do the opposite. You almost had me in the first half.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, I could honestly talk about Love island with you forever because it's all I think about right now. But a little birdie told me that you have Some gossip for me.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh yes. So I work in the acting industry and one thing we do love to do is gossip. I will say on set, I'm definitely the office gossip. Like now I treat it more like a Ponzi scheme. So it's like. Or like a pyramid scheme. So it's like I get my gossip from the masses, but I only take it to the top of the pyramid scheme, you know what I mean? So it's like I'm not sharing it with the, the other masses. Like I get the, you know, from the PA or from the directors or from the writers or from wherever their group is and then I bring it back to my little group. And I was working on the show once and I could tell slowly was surely just a scammer in my heart. We're in a new city that was starting to take on film and television at the time. And you could just tell that nobody who really worked in that town. New city. I'm not going to be like pinpointing specifically, but nobody who worked in that city had ever worked in the film industry before. You could just tell. So many people were like kind of faking it till they made it or being each other's references. And like you'll go from set to set and you'll see a lot of crew members who know each other because a lot of parts of the crew stick together and they go from job to job with one another. But it wasn't giving that. It was giving like we're all in a scheme together. For example, like definitely the boom operator, like who's like doing sound in certain places. One of them definitely was also a part time cocaine sale. Those women, I found that out at a bar one night. Like I just kept saying, seeing to make too many trips and I was like, is this, are they working right now? Like figure that out. And then that ended up being my gossip plug source because you know, the drug plug, it's like a hairstylist. Like they, your drug man knows how you. Because you don't care what you tell your drug man because you're buying drugs from them. Who are they to judge you? Like they, you know, like you're already doing something shady.

[Rachel Hampton]

Exactly. It's like you're not gonna tell anyone important. We're already doing illegal things. I know you're not gonna rat me out, right?

[Lacey Moseley]

I feel like, yeah, you should. And if you really need to gossip with somebody, yeah, you should have a friend who's involved in lots of shady activities and won't judge if you need to gossip about yourself. But, yeah, so they gave me all the tea. So there was also. We had to hire, like, specialists for different things. So, like, we had a fight choreographer who. When I tell you this lady could have never been doing this professionally because at one point, she was physically harming people. Like, she was like, okay. So we had a. Like, a fist bite. And she was like, okay, you're gonna grab the back of her hair like this, but not put any tension on it. And I've seen that before. So it looks like you're grabbing the back of this person's head. Then she was like, then you're gonna hit your fist. Gonna hit your fist like this, so it looks like you're punching her. And the actress who was, like, doing this with this choreographer was like, okay, this hurts. And she was like, no, it doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt. It was like, ma'. Am. She said it hurt. She's like, no, no, she good. She good. It was like, okay, after her. I was like, something's up. So she got Lego. Then we had to work with animals. And there was this one raccoon lady. She, like, we came past and, like, it was in between scenes, and she was. We had this raccoon on set. She was, like, fist fighting with the raccoon. Like, she fighting with the raccoon. Like, they just squaring up. It's like, with the raccoon. And we were like, hey, ma'. Am. Like, are you. Are you okay? Like, why. Why you beating the raccoon? And she was like, oh, this is how you train them. That's how they learn. You got this. And I was like, you just got.

[Rachel Hampton]

You gotta go WWE with the raccoon.

[Lacey Moseley]

Like, I don't know if that's how you train animals, ma'. Am. I don't know. Next day, the raccoon lady is gone. Mind you, I'm getting all the tea for everybody. The. The raccoon lady is gone. And I'm telling the girls about the fight with the raccoon. They were like, yeah, something is weird going on here. I was like, I'm gonna get a sandwich. So I go to get a sandwich, and I would get these, like, little lettuce turkey wraps. They were light, and I don't know. It's basic, but I love it. Anyway, so I go get my lettuce turkey wrap, and. And I order it, and then the lady turns around, tell me why it's the raccoon lady now. She making sandwiches.

[Rachel Hampton]

I don't know if I Want the animal handler handling my food.

[Lacey Moseley]

I was like, how many jobs do you have on this set?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Lacey Moseley]

So then of course, I talked to the plug and the plug, the boom plug, the sound plug.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Lacey Moseley]

And they were like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of people on this set who just got a recommendation. They're just floating around like, you know, she know where to get raccoons, but she. But sometimes she, you know, she mostly does crafty. And I was like, what do you mean she knows where to get raccoons? What. What are we doing here, guys? And so last thing in this gossip tea that I had to just let everybody know we had a lady who. She was working on the show. I won't get too jargony, but let's just say, like, she's like an assistant to one of the directors and like, does the scheduling tells you when you show up on set. So she. We always thought like, maybe she had like a little like a tick or like some kind of like, whatever, you know, and like, nobody is ableist, so we don't give a fuck about that. But, like, she was always, like, really, like, intense. And she would call us every night to tell us needed to come to work the next day. That's. That's not normal. Like, typically you just get an email. Your reps get it and you get it. She would call us every night, and some of us live together, so we would start getting together and we'd be like, oh, so and so on the phone, we would all run to the same room. So she didn't call us individually because we were like, why are you calling us? Like, this is strange. And she always had this, like, little, you know, tick. But, like, the tick wasn't weird. It was just like the calling and that kind of stuff.

[Rachel Hampton]

Right.

[Lacey Moseley]

So tell me why my drug plug, the sound operator tells me one day, she was like, oh, that's not a tick. That lady is constantly masturbating. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she was like, yeah, we were in a meeting and this fell out her pocket. And she shows me a picture because I was like, you're lying. You're lying, bro. Like, stop. You can't get how your own supply drug dealer sound person. And they were like, nah, nah, I swear, show me a picture. And it's definitely the carpet that was in our production office. And there was a vibrator sitting, like, under the table. Like at their production meeting. It had fell out of her pant leg. And the cocaine sound person was like, I Went to pick it up, and then I was like, oh, God. And then I had to take a picture of her because I knew nobody would believe me. So this whole time, we thought this lady was just like. We didn't think nothing of her little, you know, eye twitch or whatever, but we just thought she was weir, calling us all the time. But also, apparently every time her eye was twitching, she was jerking and stuff. Like, she. She's standing in front of me just diddling away, just DJing like it's like diplo. Like there's no tomorrow. Lazy. Yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

My jaw has been on the floor, I think, for two minutes straight. I have so many questions. I have. So I have a. I have. I have a lot. I have a lot of questions. I don't even know if you can answer any of them. I'm just like, what kind of vibrator are you using? Is it just constantly on, or is it a remote control thing where you just have a little app on your phone?

[Lacey Moseley]

From the picture I saw, it wasn't given technology. It was giving, like, hand crank. It was given, like. You know when. I never understood this joke in sitcoms when I was a kid, but the kids would always be like, oh, I needed batteries. So I went next to mom's bed, and I Googled for so long how people were masking, masturbating with batteries. Like, I thought that they was, like, rubbing the positive charge on their coochie or something. Because I was like, what. I don't understand how this works.

[Rachel Hampton]

Like, we're playing magnets, right?

[Lacey Moseley]

Am I supposed to be playing magnets with my. Or sticking it in there, and then the bunny gets the boom.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Boom.

[Lacey Moseley]

But what. What's supposed to happen with the batteries on their own? And then. And then as an adult, I was like, oh, it's batteries for the battery device. Like, what are they doing with these? They biting them open. Is that battery ass. What is supposed to get me off about a battery? I was really confused. But, yes, it was given. It was one of those where you had to put the door cells in Ms. Mammon and. And turn, you know, righty tighty, lefty loosey.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Lacey Moseley]

Which then I'm like, so you had to crank it on and then put

[Rachel Hampton]

it back in and then walk around all day.

[Lacey Moseley]

But finding out the boom operator was the drug dealer was definitely my insight to all the gossip there. Mind you, I'm not involved in any of these particular situations. I didn't even work with the raccoon. I was just skulking around, just peeping just like. And what did they say? Like, that's my favorite thing to do.

[Rachel Hampton]

What's going on here? I mean, I can imagine. Was the boom operator, slash cocaine dealer, good at his job at boom operating? Not cocaine dealing?

[Lacey Moseley]

No, we had a lot of sound issues. Like, we had a lot of sound issues, actually. Like, I'm pretty sure I did an ADR session, which is where actors go in and, like, if they can't hear you or they want to put a line in the scene on your back or something, like, you'll come in and you'll just do it. Like, voiceover. Like, I'm talking to you right now through this microphone. I went into one. I remember leaving, and they were like, this is some of the worst sound we've ever had to deal with. Like, he literally said that to me. He was like, I've never had people have to come in and basically re. Say the whole show. Like, yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna be thinking about this for a really long time.

[Lacey Moseley]

I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

[Rachel Hampton]

I think both. I think both. It's right in there. It's right in my brain. But now it's time for me to tell you a little story that you hopefully will never forget. Hopefully never forget.

[Lacey Moseley]

Okay. Feels like a threat, but I'm going.

[Rachel Hampton]

It's not. Not a threat.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

We are at the point in the season where I'm just constantly thinking. I'm thinking about the guests, the gossip, thinking about the audio quality, praying to God the Mercury retrograde does not make us lose any audio files.

[Rachel Hampton]

I'm thinking about whether or not there's

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Rachel Hampton]

Today's story is about influencers.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh yay.

[Rachel Hampton]

Specifically micro influencers, which are basically influencers who have under 100,000 followers. So Lacey, if you were to pivot to becoming an influencer, you would actually be a little bit too big time to be a micro influencer. So this question might be unrelatable to you, but how do you feel about influencers in general?

[Lacey Moseley]

Definitely relatable and I think I have a more skewed viewpoint of it because I know so many like micro and like huge like millions and millions of followers influencers. So I have a different perspective on it because it takes a ton of work to look like you're not doing shit. Like those people are filming content like for days and days on end they're like having writer sessions where they're coming up with their next bit. Even the ones who aren't Very good. Or maybe they just do slice of life or maybe they're just replicating something you just saw on TV with bad wigs and you find it entertaining. All of those people have to like make those, you know, things that content. They have to stay abreast on what's happening in social media constantly, not miss any trends, waves, trends. It's a hard job and you can't take days off because the algorithm punishes you if you don't feed the monster. So they gotta post every day around the same time, some of them multiple times a day. And not all of their posts are getting hits like that. If you go on their actual page, you'll see it's more about consistently feeding it. So for me personally, I have a soft spot for them because I hate posting and if I do my makeup and my hair if because I got to get in full jack, otherwise people going to think I'm suffering from a illness. Like I have set myself up poorly. I wish I had been on the line yapping with a bonded on 10 years ago. Cuz then that could be my brand now if I do that, they're like she's on drugs. I told you guys she was on drugs. So they, they got it. And I have respect for them. Yeah, I wish more influencers, but they can't do it. But I wish that they could be honest about what a day in the life looks like so that people understood that this is fully a job. Because so many regular people now look at it and think it's so easy that now this is their goal in life. And it's pissing me the off. Like I'm so tired of like you're a registered nurse. Ma', am, your patient is coding. Why are you dancing in front of this camera? Okay, like you don't see them lights back there? He is kicking the leg, he reaching for the light. Ma', am, why are you not doing your job? Why you over here violating HIPAA for likes and reposts? Can you be for real?

[Rachel Hampton]

I feel like there's this point where you're watching someone who is not an influencer try to become an influencer. And there's that like medium part where they're not doing either necessarily. Well, have you seen this?

[Lacey Moseley]

Yes, but again, because I work in a very like cringe industry. Like baby, when I would go on dates, I stopped telling people in the beginning of my acting career that I was an actor because I would go on dates. But it was a good litmus test. They'd be like what are you doing? I'd be like, I'm an actor. Guys be like, oh, so where. What restaurant do you work at? Oh, so you ate tables like that type shit. I'm like, okay, you. And then the other side is, they'll be like, oh, so what have you been in? What can I see you and please list everything you've ever worked in, ever. And I'm like, why is it okay to do that for actors? But if you're an accountant, I can't be like, all right, well, go ahead and pull up that LinkedIn. I need to see how many recommendations you got. You was at Ernest and Young for how long did you know Tommy? Like, we don't do that to people with normal jobs.

[Rachel Hampton]

No, you're right. You're right.

[Lacey Moseley]

I say actors, anybody in entertainment, podcasting, influencing on social media, you have to get through that weird middle space where it's completely cringe. So all of you in between, influencer, where you're not quite famous enough. Listen, fake it till you make it. Keep putting up them that content girl and keep holding it up to the camera. One day they gonna like it. One day they gonna like it. They gonna click, and then people gonna stop playing with you. You get up there right now, you give em a. You give em a. You give em a. You give em a. Everybody keeps asking me, you give em a. Can I tell you guys what I am in love with right now? Okay, you give em a link to. Click.

[Rachel Hampton]

Wow. This is actually a perfect segue into our story today because our friend of a friend who is named Madeline, when she met her best friend Emma, Emma gave no signs of wanting to be an influencer. When Emma and Madeline met, Emma was just the only girl in Madeline's biochemistry class who actually had her shit together enough to actually help Madeline out. When Madeline broke her ankle and had to miss a full week's worth of class, literally no one else had notes worth copying except for Emma. And in college, this is enough to form a very intense and codependent friendship, which is exactly what Madeline and Emma did. It helped that Emma was the kind of person who, like, when you're in, you're in. You know, once she's friends with you, you are gonna be introduced to her mom, her dad, her best friend, her cat, her dog. Everyone in her life is gonna know who you are.

[Lacey Moseley]

She's like a love bomby friend.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Lacey Moseley]

You know those friends who instantly are, like, obsessed with you, and then all of a sudden, every phone call you have is FaceTime and it's like you're the center of their universe until they find someone else to glom onto. You can always figure out who these people are based on their Instagram. Cuz they be with a new person every week and that be their new best friend. And this goes across all genders. Like my, not my imbies, my my my. Everybody's like, we all know that one friend who's probably an acquaintance of yours. But that's what she does for the first week. Oh my God. We were so similar. Oh my gosh. Yes. Twins. We should get the same outfit. Oh my God. Let's take pictures. And I'm gonna post this. This is so cute. Do you like this? Do you think he's gonna like it? That person?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yes. I describe this as being a slut for commitment. You just want to commit to literally anything and everything. Our friend of a friend, Madeline is much more of a go with the flow type. This leads to a perfect like type A type B style friendship.

[Lacey Moseley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

Madeline and Emma end up getting an apartment together after college. And this is when Emma meets Caleb. One of Emma's many commitments is to secondhand furniture. Like you won't catch her death in an Ikea. One day Emma scores like a really sick deal on a vintage coat rack that is too big to fit in her Toyota Camry. So enter her knight in shining armor, Caleb, A hot apprentice carpenter who happened to be at the same estate sale looking for some furniture to refurbish and who most importantly owned a pickup truck.

[Lacey Moseley]

I like Caleb so far. He got hobbies, he making money. He's building stuff with his hands. He not on the bowels of the Internet hating imaginary women. Okay. He's building a house. We love that.

[Rachel Hampton]

Exactly. And Caleb refused to let Emma pay him for the ride, so Emma offered him a drink. And from there our friend and friend Madeline basically gets a third roommate because Emma and Caleb are locked the fuck in.

[Lacey Moseley]

Of course Emma gives male centered. It's giving Aiden and Carrie Bradshaw all

[Rachel Hampton]

love to all of my former roommates. But the thing that I hated the most was when they got a boyfriend. Because why is there a strange man in my home? Why can I not go to the bathroom anymore?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh yeah.

[Lacey Moseley]

They got a boyfriend. You got a boyfriend. It's like having a half bath, you know, like it's not fully fun, but it's in your home. Can't shower in there, but it's in your home. Yes.

[Rachel Hampton]

Luckily Caleb is pretty chill. He's quiet, he's laid back. He loves Top Chef just as much as Madeline does. So they actually do end up becoming homies. And a couple months into dating Emma, Caleb does Emma and Madeline a huge solace. Solid. He introduces them to his little sister, Gabby. Now, at first, Madeline is like, I am not hanging out with my best friend's boyfriends kid sister. But then they all go out together and it is immediately clear that Gabby is like a down ass. She not only gets them into the club for free, she flirts so hard with the manager that she gets them a table and free bottle service.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, so his sister's a baddie.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And from there, everyone's locked in. It's Gabby, it's Emma, it's Caleb, it's Madelyn. They have a few really good years together. They throw parties, they have brunches, they take trips together. They all get their first real jobs. And then everything kind of goes sideways. Because 2020 happens a year where no one's life was changed.

[Lacey Moseley]

No, no, no. There's a lot of indoor activities. Were my hands raw from the constant washing? Absolutely. I was washing like I was in fucking Grey's Anatomy. I. I have sex in narya closet with a doctor, but here I am scrubbing in every day. So this obviously is going to addle their relationship because they like to spend time together because Covid has now hit.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Madeline's corporate job goes fully remote, so she ends up moving back in with her parents. She spends all of 2020 and 2021 regressing into a teenager in her pink childhood bedroom. She saves a ton of money and she spends all of her free time on Instagram and TikTok planning all the trips that she's gonna go on as soon as the world opens back up. Meanwhile, Caleb and Emma decide not only to move in together, they decide to buy a house together.

[Lacey Moseley]

Yeah, that was some Covid behavior.

[Rachel Hampton]

Madelyn does not find out about the whole house thing from Emma. She finds out from Instagram. Specifically from the shared Instagram account that Caleb and Emma start the day after closing on their home. They have a shared Instagram.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, no. Oh, we know where this is going.

[Rachel Hampton]

Caleb and Emma had bought a fixer upper, and they wanted to chronicle their journey of turning their house into a home. Madeline's like, I kind of wish you guys had just gotten engaged like normal people, but I guess I'll follow this account. Even though all the captions are in that like, influencer cadence that you just did so well. Can I get another demonstration?

[Lacey Moseley]

Of course. So guys, I have some news. Okay, I'm freaking out I can't even believe it's real. My life just feels like it's stressful, changing on a dime. First, the world completely shuts down and we can't even get an avocado toast in the morning. And then I find that I'm spending all of this time with the love of my life, who I love to create with. And I can't wait to create more. Which is why we're partnering right now with Home Depot, who's going to help us on our journey, not only to build our dream home, but our dream life together. Please, please. I'm so excited to share this journey, like, and subscribe. Oh, my God, Caleb. Caleb. Stop making a video. Caleb. I'm telling them about our love. Oh, my God. He's so silly. We just, like, are so silly all the time. But, yeah, if you click the link in my bio, you can donate directly to Covid's couple.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Emma and Caleb actually end up gaining way more momentum than anyone expected. Like, a few of their videos go mildly viral. One day they find this, like, boarded up fireplace in the house. And the people love the way Emma just like, screams when she sees it. So within, like, six months, they end up with 18,000 followers. It's when they get a $500 grout sponsorship that Emma tells Madeline that she thinks it's time to start taking this seriously. So Emma quite literally quits her day job as an interior designer and then tries to convince her friend Madeline to do the same. She's like, I need someone to help with video editing. Wouldn't it be so fun to work together? And it's not like you're paying rent anyway. You're at home with your parents. Would you work with your best friend?

[Lacey Moseley]

Not this friend. Because the way that she offered that was not a partnership. Already telling me one. You're not gonna give me no money because you was like, you. You already don't need money, so you might as well work for me for free instead of, you know, using your free time to do other things that are free labor. Like, what are you saying? And then when she was like, oh, my God, it would be so much fun. It feels like you're gonn all the work on me and you do the fun part because I ain't never hear nowhere in here. Did Madeline tell Emma she had a passion for graphic design and video editing? I didn't hear that.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, Madeline feels the exact same way. She's like, love you so much, bestie, but no thank you. She also knows how type A Emma can be. And she's like, I just don't want that smoke. I don't want to be dealing with you all up in my business like that. So Emma actually ends up hiring Gabby, Caleb's little batty sister. Gabby had gotten laid off at the beginning of the pandemic and had been living with her and Caleb's parents ever since. So she's like, I guess I'm bored enough to help out.

[Lacey Moseley]

She really trying to find somebody who could be easily homeless.

[Rachel Hampton]

You.

[Lacey Moseley]

She could have gone online and been like, looking for a video editor to help me make content. She could have gone anywhere to find somebody who had any kind of examples and proof that they were good at this job. But no, you could tell she about to be shady because she's like, who is vulnerable and near me? Like, what? She was like, yeah. Cause she just lost her job, so I know she on the brink of homelessness. She'll do it. Like, why can't you find somebody who does this? Emma?

[Rachel Hampton]

Gabby does occasionally send Madeline texts that say save me. And screenshots from videos of Emma and Caleb that make them look especially deranged. And she does tell Madeline that Emma has gotten really into using words like shiplap and Wayne's cotting. And she's always talking about crown molding. But it mostly sounds like this arrangement works out for everyone.

[Lacey Moseley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

Or at least it works out well enough that it doesn't interfere with Madeline's plans. After about a year and a half of living at home and saving money, Madeline decides now is her time. It is hot back summer, which was that summer in 2021, where we're all like, I'm safe from COVID now. It can't hurt me.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, right. Yeah. She got the jab. Now she ready to get stabbed.

[Rachel Hampton]

Exactly. Her plan is to spend six months overseas. She invites everyone she knows to join her for, like, various portions of the trip, including Emma, Caleb, and Gabby, who all agreed to come join Madeline for two weeks in Italy. How do you feel about vacationing with a couple when you're not in a couple yourself?

[Lacey Moseley]

I've done it. One year, I hosted a birthday party, and I got this huge house, and I put all the couples. Couples together. And the people who were single had bedrooms. You know what I mean? I'm the third wheel when it comes to my couple friends. We could be all out together, like, whoa, we have a good time, Chad. Like, it's. It's not. It's a non issue for me. But they're younger than me. I can Tell. So it's that couple where. Yeah, they're couple, but it's like two young people together. Are y' all really together? Until we get to it? You know what I mean? There's a certain commitment or a certain age. It's like they're a friend group.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Madeline has been on weekend trips with them before, so she knows they're compatible travel buddies. And she's like, it's only two weeks out of a six months trip and Gabby will be there. So she's not too worried about vacationing with this specific couple. Yeah. She says her goodbyes. She sets off for the first part of her trip, which is in England. She's getting ready to go out one night when she gets a call from Emma. Madeline figures this is just like a logistical phone call since Italy's in a few weeks and Emma's the kind of person who, like, needs to go over that itinerary multiple times. So Madeline's prepared to answer the phone like, yes, we're going to the Trevi fountain. Yes, we can recreate the scene from Lizzie McGuire movie. We've already talked about this before.

[Lacey Moseley]

Yes, we're gonna see the Pope. We're gonna have a deep dish with him. That's what's happening. Okay.

[Rachel Hampton]

But this is not what Emma has called for. Emma's like, so I've got some news.

[Lacey Moseley]

Ooh.

[Rachel Hampton]

And for a second, madam's like, are you proud? But then Emma says, me and Caleb have broken up.

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[Rachel Hampton]

I'm admitting that here to y' all and the world.

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[Rachel Hampton]

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[Rachel Hampton]

Madeline is shocked. She thought that Emma and Caleb were in game. And Emma's like, yeah, it was a really hard decision. Obviously it's complicated because we own this house together, but we're still friends and we're still planning to come to Italy together.

[Lacey Moseley]

So she broke up with him.

[Rachel Hampton]

She's like, we're mature adults. We can handle this. And also, we bought non refundable plane tickets. There it is.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Lacey Moseley]

It's like nobody. It's just like roommates. Nobody wants a roommate, okay? That is a friend of financial circumstance. Okay. Sometimes it works out in their lifelong. Well, when y' all was living together, that was a circumstance. And she was like, no, like, I love him. He can still come to Italy. Because one, we. We need to get a lot of content in Italy, so I gotta get this hand holding in. And two, also, we do own a home together. So the business isn't dissolved yet. This is a business relationship. She should just stay with him for photos. I wouldn't be mad at that. Y' all be roommates. Y' all. Do y' all photo shoots twice a week. Live your life. Well.

[Rachel Hampton]

Do you feel any differently about vacationing with a couple if the couple is broken up?

[Lacey Moseley]

So here's the thing. My friend side is like, yeah, we all came here to have good vibes and have a trip. So that. But if these were the type of friends that I had, then the other type of side of me is kind of like, well, we gonna have an interesting trip. Like, you know, they gonna be fighting a lot, you know, and as long as they're not, like, get drunk, crash out, and we in Italy jail, I feel like, you know, might be entertaining. You know what I mean? Like, if I trip and fall, that won't be the talk of the trip. You know, they was throwing gelato at each other on the Vespas. That's what everybody's talking about.

[Rachel Hampton]

You're right. You're like, there's nothing that I can do. That would be the most interesting part of this trip. Cause y' all are gonna be up to a mess.

[Lacey Moseley]

Yeah, but. But you're right, it would. If they want to have a copacetic, peaceful trip, it probably will up the vibes a little bit. And it's clear that she's the initiator. She was like, no, it's just a con. She didn't miss somebody with more followers is what it is. Probably trying to move him into the house. That's what she wants. She want a hype house. She don't want to be with that man.

[Rachel Hampton]

Meline doesn't necessarily feel like she has a whole lot of options here, so she's like, okay, yeah, I guess that sounds fine. And this is when Emma is like, by the way, would you mind keeping this to yourself for a little bit? Emma explains that they are only telling Madeline and Gabby about the breakup for now. And it's mostly because they're all about to go on this trip together. Emma and Caleb are not gonna tell the rest of their friend group about the breakup just yet. And they aren't gonna tell the public because they just got a big sponsorship, so they need to keep posting to their couple's account for another month. Month. To fulfill their end of the contract.

[Lacey Moseley]

Jo you. They're in a relationship business. And. And I don't understand why that has to end just because y' all don't want to be romantically involved anymore. Okay. You know how hard it is to sell a house in this economy. Y' all gonna go. You probably under already stay together and just date other people. Get y' all content. Y' all could be business partners.

[Rachel Hampton]

Now, I know I just said Meline feels like she doesn't have a lot of options, but do you feel like she has any options other than going on vacation with a broken up couple that is pretending to still be together

[Lacey Moseley]

for Instagram, she's already there, so they're coming to her. So I think it's more of a thing of like. Well, I think it was cool of Emma to tell her ahead of time, hey, I'm coming with drama. Just wanna let you know.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Moseley]

So she told her ahead of time. So as long as she just pulled up and was like, oh, by the way, we broke up, but we still gonna shoot content. Everybody act normal. But when the cameras is off, we're gonna be back boxing. But then when the cameras come back on, everybody act like, I didn't throw that drink in his face. Y' all got me. Okay. And action. Like, you know, she didn't do that. So I want to give them some grace. I'll kind of be like, well, do you want him staying in my place? Cuz you're my home girl. So do you want him to get a hotel and then you stay with us? His sister can stay with us. I would offer some things like that if I was uncomfortable, but she's kind of in a weird position cuz she doesn't have the choice not to go. But she does have a choice to tell him no and not to come.

[Rachel Hampton]

But we know she's not going to and she doesn't. No, no, you're right.

[Lacey Moseley]

We knew she was gonna do that. So I'm even all for that.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, a couple of weeks pass. Meline does her best to put this out of her mind and enjoy her trip. She goes from England to France to Portugal before finally landing in Rome where she meets Gabby. Gabby's flight is a day earlier than Emma and Caleb, so Meline gets to enjoy like a day of peace with Gabby. And it's not until Meline and Gabby gets their Airbnb that they're staying in that Madeline even brings up Emma and K. Caleb. Madeline and Gabby are trying to fall asleep. They're both like tipsy and exhausted from their first day in Italy, but it's too hot to fall asleep so they're like laying in the dark staring at the ceiling. When Madeline is like, how do you think Emma and Caleb are gonna break the announcement? And Gabby's like what announcement? And Madeline's like, well they're gonna have to tell their followers about their breakup at some point, right? And Gabby like sits straight up and bed and she's like breakup? What breakup are you talking about? Meline turns the light on and she's like are you with me right now? And Gabby's like are you with me right now? And Meline starts panicking because she is known for like never spilling a secret. So she's like oh my God, I didn't mean to tell you. I thought they told you. Emma told me that they told you. But before Madeline can really spiral, Gabby starts cracking up. She has this expression on her face that only a little sister can have when she gains the upper hand. Gabby's like, honestly, thank God. You do not know how many times I've had to edit their fights out of videos.

[Lacey Moseley]

She was like this is going to save me so much time. I hope, I hope Gabby continues to want to content create for Emma. But she's just like oh, this is going to save me so much time. Cuz we had so many fight scenes we had to edit out. One time she was chasing them like we have to finish the scene. And I was like I can't use any of this. Honestly. It's giving Whitney and Bobby so you know, this is a good thing. It's giving Spencer and Heidi but you know, love it.

[Rachel Hampton]

So they talk through Everything that Madeline knows for the next hour. And they decide that the most likely explanation for why Gabby doesn't know yet is that Emma and Caleb want to tell Gabby the news in person. But does that make sense to you? Do you feel like that's Emma's plan?

[Lacey Moseley]

No. Are these people, like, Gabby's parents getting a divorce? Like, can everybody grow up? Like, y' all broke up? I don't know if this is, like, hey, Gabby, we need you to sit down. You know? Yes, yes. Put down your white claw. This is important. Like, we're all adults. Just tell her you're breaking up. No, it's not a good excuse.

[Rachel Hampton]

The next morning, Emma and Caleb arrive, luggage in tow. Madeline and Gabby wait for them to break the news, but they're just, like, chatting and unpacking, talking about the flight. Emma says she's gonna go take a quick shower, and she gives Caleb a kiss on the cheek on her way out the room.

[Lacey Moseley]

I think that Emma's just messy and lives for the drop. It doesn't give. It's giving that the only person she told that she was breaking up with him was Madeline. I don't think he knows. The sister knows. Caleb doesn't know. She was just on FaceTime with his grand nanny, like, you know, 10 minutes ago. Like, she's.

[Rachel Hampton]

We're getting married, right?

[Lacey Moseley]

She trying on wedding gowns. I told this girl she breaking up with him. Like, please be serious, Emma. It's giving. She just needs to be main character all the time. Okay, ma'. Am.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, they all go to fancy dinner together. During the meal, Emma and Caleb swap plates. Halfway through, Caleb keeps his arm around, like, the back of Emma's chair. And Madeline keeps asking things like, but how are you really doing? And Gabby's, like, getting in the mix, too. She's like, I feel like it's been so long since I've seen you two. What's going on? But Emma and Caleb are giving them nothing. They just keep talking about, like, their most recent renovation project, which was apparently a nightmare. And as they're walking off dinner, Madeline keeps trying to get Emma alone to. To ask her what the fuck is happening right now? But Emma is sticking to Caleb like glue. She's like, babe, do you have the Polaroid camera? Babe, come look at this. And after a certain point, it is clear to Madeline that Emma is avoiding being alone with her. So when Gabby and Madeline return back to their room, they immediately start discussing what they've just witnessed. They're like, okay, did Emma and Caleb get back together on the plane. Is Madeline being actively gaslighting or did she maybe just hallucinate that whole conversation with Emma? What's your theory here?

[Lacey Moseley]

I think that maybe Emma was just in her feelings when she was talking to Madeline and then decided. And you, we all know that one girl, guy, whoever it is, who complains in your friend group about their relationship, but then when you give them sound advice or you're like, I don't know, leave them, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Packing up this stuff right now. About to be. To the left. To the left, left. All the stuff in the left and the left. Yeah, it was on the left. And then I brought it right back inside. We still together? Like, why are you bothering me? You know you don't want to leave this person. Just tell me you want to vent and I can support your venting and we can move on, but don't be asking me for no solutions to a problem that you're enjoying. Oh, it is so annoying. So she might have been doing that and then changed her mind. Was like, my man, my man, my man. As soon as he popped up. But this all could have been solved. If any of y' all were direct people, I would have just been at the dinner like, hey, is it just online rumors that y' all are breaking up? Or like, yes, you know how people talk.

[Rachel Hampton]

No, literally.

[Lacey Moseley]

But also, I feel like Emma's lying because why would you tell me? Don't tell anybody. But you said everybody on this trip knows.

[Rachel Hampton]

Could Madeline and Gabby just ask outright what's happening? Yes. Do they? No, of course not. Madeline is like, I don't want to cheat myself out of a perfectly good mystery. I've got six months of traveling, and Gabby kind of wants to see how long it's going to take Caleb and Emma to get around to telling her. She's like, how long can they actually keep this up? So the next day, the plan is to go to the Trevi Fountain at 7am so Caleb and Emma can shoot some content before it gets too crowded. 7am is too early for me to do anything, especially on a vacation.

[Lacey Moseley]

Right?

[Rachel Hampton]

But Emma and Caleb promise to pay for breakfast if Gabby and Madeline indulge their early morning photoshoot. Madeline is just, like, sitting by the side, barely awake, watching them work. The whole thing is just incredibly surreal. Maybe because it's so early or maybe because Madeline genuinely cannot tell one way or another whether her friends have broken up. Like, Caleb is twirling Emma around while Gabby is shooting video. They're laughing together as Emma is like throwing a coin into the fountain. The whole hallucination theory is starting to feel more and more real the longer this goes on.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Right?

[Rachel Hampton]

Emma's like, reviewing the footage with Gabby and explaining the rule of thirds to her. And if the expression on Gabby's face is anything to go by, this is not the first time this has happened. Meanwhile, a sweet elderly couple approaches Kaylee. Caleb, who has just been like, staring off into the middle distance, disassociating. So this couple is like, what brings you to Italy? Isn't Rome romantic? Are you here for a wedding? And Caleb shakes his head like, nope, just here to see the sights. And this old man is like, is one of these young ladies your girlfriend? And Madeline could swear she sees Caleb hesitate for a moment. But then he points at Emma and is like, she's my girlfriend. And the old lady is like, how long have you two been together? Caleb's like, five years. And the old man is like, five years? Why have you not married her?

[Lacey Moseley]

Right?

[Rachel Hampton]

How is it that you keep a girl waiting for five years? Caleb is like, blushing. Emma has stopped lecturing Gabby. Meanwhile, Gabby has like the biggest shit eating grin on her face. She's like, yeah, Caleb, why haven't you proposed yet? What's going on?

[Lacey Moseley]

Why would she do that? This is little sister coded. Gabby saw gas and she her fire. She brought gas. She was like, oh, what y' all need? Excellent.

[Rachel Hampton]

Let's get this going.

[Lacey Moseley]

Yes.

[Rachel Hampton]

This only makes Caleb blush even harder before he mumbles, I'm waiting for the right time, I guess. Which is not a good enough reason for the old man who gives him like a very long lecture about how it is not right to make a woman wait. Like, this old man goes in. In the way that only an old Italian man can.

[Lacey Moseley]

And honestly love that for elderly people. God willing, I get old. I'm about to be all in your business, telling you things you never asked me to tell. I don't care. I'm old now. I get to do whatever I want because I made it this far. Y' all don't respect me anyway. Y' all want to throw me in a home. So I'm about to be in your business. I'm cutting you in line like I'm still in the last Cinnabon. Like, please, I'm old and now I'm a menace. So I love that this old man is like, what are you doing? Five years. You don't love her. You don't love her. Yes, old man, you deserve that.

[Rachel Hampton]

How long would you be able to Go before calling your friends out on their bullshit.

[Lacey Moseley]

I mean, I would have done it immediately, but if we're going to wa this long, this isn't the moment. Cuz it's already awkward for Caleb with this old man. Be like, why? You don't love her. You don't love her, you don't make a wife. It's a me old guy Mario, like, you know, he's going with enough. I'd probably get him at dinner later and be like, yeah, y' all having to, you know, I want to know why she's saying that. But also now I think she's a little crazy, cuz why not pull me aside and be like, oh, everything's fine now.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Meline is like, I don't think this is the right time. I either. So she waits and she waits. They're on their bus to Florence. Madeline and Gabby are sitting behind Emma and Caleb, and they see Emma shake off Caleb's arm. But by the time they get off the bus, Emma and Caleb are holding hands again. Gabby decides to go to bed early that night since it doesn't look like they're going to confess anytime soon. So Madeline gets a drink with Emma and Caleb, and they're not even pretending to touch each other anymore. They're no longer talking in wheeze. At one point, Emma makes a comment about how Caleb's mom never liked her and Madeline's like, okay, past tense. They have broken up. I'm not insane. Here's the point where I begin to question our friend of a friend. Because despite this very compelling evidence, she still does not just ask Emma and Caleb point blank what is going on or why they're pretending to still be dating in front of Gabby. Like, the next morning at breakfast, when Gabby's rejoined them, Emma butters Caleb's toast for him and he kisses her hand. They're sightseeing all day. Madeline is sightseeing all day. Emma, Caleb and Gabby are shooting content. And at one point, Emma is like, asking Gabby to do a third take of a video of her, like, trailing her hand along the stone wall. And Gabby finally snaps a little bit. She's like, third takes are for paying customers only.

[Lacey Moseley]

Emma had her doing all this for free. I mean, I knew she targeted Gabby because she didn't want to pay her a lot. I didn't think she was going to be paying her a lot of nothing.

[Rachel Hampton]

Emma's like, oh, I'm sorry. I thought you wanted to learn how to do it right.

[Lacey Moseley]

Okay. Emma must be a baddie too, because I'm like, it's giving that both of these other two friends, the little sister and the meline girl, are way too obsessed with Emma. Why are you over here looking at their every interaction? What do you mean? You saw her butter his toast and then he lingered, his lips on her hand like, are you in a. Nancy? Are you Nancy Myers? Are you writing the romcom? Why are you so. So instinctively, like, focused on every detail of this Emma girl and her man? It's giving like, single white female. You're a little too obsessed with this girl. And, like, why. Why do you care? First of all, if I'm. If I'm in a relationship with my girlfriends, which is what I consider my friendships to be, and my homegirl is on and off with her man. Man, that man. I don't know that man. We got a lot of that man. We lying to that man. I'd have been in the bathroom at Powell. I was like, now, where did you say you were on Tuesday? Okay. And then that was from 8 to 10:30. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We definitely. Well, we. It was Love island came on at six, and then we. Then we waited and watched Real Housewives. And then. Okay, I got the timeline. Okay, we good? Like, I don't. I have no allegiance to your man, so I don't understand why she cares so much about Caleb in this. I could get her being upset. She was like, I think my friend's lying to me, talking about Emma. But the Caleb of it all and the her lingering on their kisses. She's noted every kiss, every time Emma. Emma lips get on that man. She looking.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

It's.

[Lacey Moseley]

I don't know, Emma. You might not be reliable.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, they're at dinner later that night on a beautiful patio in a bustling part of town when Emma puts her fork down and says, gabby, there's something I've been meaning to talk to you about. Both Madeline and Gabby freeze. They're like, is it finally happening? Are they finally going to come clean? Emma takes a deep breath and she says, I feel like your heart isn't really in it on this trip. Gabby. Gabby, if we get good footage now, it'll make the editing easier later. It's supposed to be giving Lizzie McGuire movie, but this is not what dreams are made of. Madeline's jaw is on the floor. Caleb is, like, once again staring off into the middle distance. Meanwhile, Gabby just stares at Emma for a long moment. And then she's like, you know what?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You're right.

[Rachel Hampton]

My heart isn't in it. It must Be hard to do something when your heart's not in. In it. And then she's like, I think I just need to go out tonight. So she, like, leaves her pasta on the table and disappears into the night. And Madeline's like, should someone go after her? Like, she is in a city that she is not from. But Emma and Caleb are bickering now. Caleb's like, come on, Emma. It's not like she's getting paid. And Emma's like, excuse you. She gets 5% of all of our sponsorships. That's like $25 a post, girl, for all that work.

[Lacey Moseley]

Please be serious. Also, like, that's what I'm telling y'.

[Rachel Hampton]

All.

[Lacey Moseley]

Everybody else thinks they're in a friendship or a relationship. Emma is running a corporation. She said, this is Love company, okay? And y' all need to get with the program. Gabby, your heart's not in it. Yeah, why would my heart be in making videos and posts of you kissing on my brother? Why would that be my passion? I don't know, but figure it out, because at least Love Company we're giving Lizzie McGuire, okay? And right now, you're giving, like, love and hip hop. It needs you to elevate. Elevate. She's like, girl, we are. You're not Kim K. Why are we at your corporate meeting right now? We thought we were having an Italian dinner. She's like, look, she got quarterly projections. She was like, likes are in the red. Do you see this?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. We're losing money.

[Lacey Moseley]

We're losing money. We're losing control of the algorithm. Okay, you need to shave your beard, Caleb. No one likes beard kissing. She all everybody ass.

[Rachel Hampton]

20 minutes of bickering later, Gabby reappears, and with her are three of the hottest men Madeline has ever seen in her entire life. Like, they are glistening in the setting sun. And Gabby's like, we're gonna go dancing. Madeline, do you wanna come with? And then she turns to Emma, whose eyes are basically doing that, like, awooga thing, you know? And Gabby's like, sorry, Emma. Single girls only.

[Lacey Moseley]

Not. This is her way of trying to get. Get this information out of her. She was like, let me go find the sexiest men. Like, no, no, no. Don't put your shirt on. Keep your shirt off. We're going to a restaurant. Like, where? Gabby, where did you find these poor men?

[Rachel Hampton]

Madeline is like, honestly? Yeah, give me the hell out of here. I want to go dancing. But Emma's her best friend, so she's like, are you okay if I go? I don't want to abandon you to your fake ex current boyfriend, right? And she expects Emma to say yes, like, go ahead and go. Instead, Emma says, no, let's all go. She tells Caleb to stay behind and get the bill. And Caleb, like, sighs. But for a second, Madeline swears he looks relieved.

[Lacey Moseley]

She's studying that lady man too hard. What do you mean he looks relieved? You are saying every breath this man takes, every step he makes, every twitch in his eye, like, damn.

[Rachel Hampton]

Emma grabs Madeline's hand and they join Gabby and all the Italian hotties at a club down the street. They dance for hours. At some point, Gabby finds Meline and they're both tired and ready to go. It's like 2am but they can't find Emma or Caleb, so they decide to just go back to the hotel by themselves. The next morning, the plan was to get up at 7am again to take pictures at a cathedral. Meline is ready in the lobby at 7:15. Gabby is ready in the lobby at 7:15. Caleb is ready in the lobby at 7 15. But there is no sign of any Emma. Gabby's like, bro, where's your girlfriend? The love of your life?

[Lacey Moseley]

They still trying. The one that you're in a relationship with currently and happy with.

[Rachel Hampton]

Caleb says she went on an early morning run. She's just gonna meet us at the cathedral. So they all go to this cathedral. They walk around. It's beautiful. But Gabby and Meline keep exchanging glances as it gets later and later. Finally, at 8:30, Emma shows up. Her hair and makeup are all over the place. She smells very strongly of Italian cologne. But when she gets there, she gives Caleb a big hug and then they're right back to holding hands again. Gabby, very sweetly, is like, did you still wanna take some pictures this morning? My heart's really feeling in it today. And Emma's like, that's okay. We can just go get some coffee. And this is the closest Emma and Caleb get to cracking. Like, they fly back a few days later with Gabby. And as far as Madelyn knows, they never tell Gabby that they're broken. Broken up. They certainly never explained to Madeline what the fuck was going on. But it's no longer Madeline's problem. She has four months of travel left, none of which are with any couples separated or otherwise. A few weeks after the Italy trip, while Madeline's catching some sun on a beach in Croatia, she checks Instagram and sees a breakup post. It is Emma and Caleb. They're holding hands. And then they like, slowly let their hands drop and they walk out of the frame.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, Emma. Emma's running love co like the Navy baby. Okay, come on. Hands fall out of frame. You'd have thought one of them died. I love it. Come on, Emma. Yes. Give me drama.

[Rachel Hampton]

Madeline's like, oh, thank God they figured it out. Emma and Caleb have also posted a breakup FAQ to their story.

[Lacey Moseley]

Oh, my goodness.

[Rachel Hampton]

Because apparently their couple's account has been getting some snark on Reddit. People thought that their Italy at the content looked like fake, so they're posting to address all the rumors. It's very thought out. It's like a notes app apology where they explain that they actually broke up more than a month ago. But the Italy trip was real. One of the questions in the FAQ is, so who knew you'd been broken up all this time? And the answer is, only Meline and Gabby, because we're all going on the trip together.

[Lacey Moseley]

Which she didn't tell Gabby. Maybe she thought Gabby. She backed out and telling Gabby because she was like, gabby is my boo sister. And what if he decides to be down for my boo? And then he does. She doesn't want to take any more photos of me for my trip, so I can't tell my employee that I fired her brother yet. Cuz then she might take the brother side. That's what it was like. Emma got back to the hotel room, started looking over union rules and was like, she. If I terminate him, she might terminate as well. I don't want her to risk a strike, so I'll just.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Ma'.

[Rachel Hampton]

Am. No, literally.

[Lacey Moseley]

Literally.

[Rachel Hampton]

Madeline calls Gabby and she's like, did you see the post? Like, when did they tell you? You? And Gabby's like, they never told me. They just sent me the footage and asked me to make the video. That's how I found out.

[Lacey Moseley]

Listen, that's what you do if you're closing your business. You're not supposed to tell employees it's the last day they're going to be employed because they might steal. So Emma couldn't let, like, Gabby know that her brother was going to be unemployed because she needed her to finish her job.

[Rachel Hampton]

And you're right. Madeline's like, so did you see the faq? And Gabby was like, yeah, but I'm not reading all of that. And Madeline's like, there, but look at this part. So she sends Gabby a screenshot while they're on the phone. And Gabby is just laughing like, what the fuck is this? And so finally, Madeline reaches her capacity for miscommunication. She adds Emma to the call, and she's like, girly, pop, what's going on here? Emma hears the whole saga from their perspective, and she's like, gabby, babe, I'm so sorry.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Sorry.

[Rachel Hampton]

I've been so stressed. I literally just forgot that we hadn't told you. Are you buying this?

[Lacey Moseley]

No, it was. It was four of y' all on a trip. What do you mean you forgot to tell the one other person who doesn't know what girl? You just didn't want Gabby to take her brother's side, that's all. You can be honest.

[Rachel Hampton]

Madeline and Gabby are on the exact same wavelength that you are. They are not buying this. As soon as they get off the call with Emma, Gabby calls her brother from her laptop and puts him on speakerphone. And Gabby's like, why are you telling 18,000 people that I knew about your breakup when I didn't? And Caleb's like, wait, Emma never told you? Apparently, one of the many things that Emma and Caleb were fighting about on the Italy trip was whose responsibility it was to break the news to Gabby. They figured that the news would hit her the hardest since she was so invested in their relationship.

[Lacey Moseley]

They are such narcissists. Narcissists. Both of them are. It is so funny to me. First of all, your 18,000 followers, babes, most of those are bots or unemployed children scattered across the continental U.S. like, these people. Like, you're. You're not the president and first lady. We don't need an faq. But I love in your world, you're like, people are going to have questions, and, you know, I don't want to sit down and answer them all. We might as well just do a frequently Asked questions for the community. Oh, how are we going to tell Gabby? It's going to destroy her. She's like our child. Like, maybe these people have lives, but I love that they're living in their own delulu. I want them to get back together. Y' all need each other. I love it. I love it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, Emma thought Caleb should be the one to tell Gabby since he's her brother and they've known each other longer. And Caleb thought Emma should be the one to tell Gabby, since Emma was the one who wanted to hire Gabby in the first place. And in the end, rather than resolve. Resolve this conflict, they simply just never told her.

[Lacey Moseley]

And I also know that as belabored as that conversation probably felt, when they were explaining it to Gabby, the conversation was probably more just like, yeah, okay, so do you like this for the breakup post? Like, if we do this. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. All right. Who's all right? When are you gonna tell Gabby? No, man, I'm not gonna tell her. That's your homegirl. You tell her. No, that's your sister. Yeah, but, like, y' all work together, so you should probably tell her. I don't know. I don't want to, too. All right. Anyway. Do you like this filter? And then, like, the combo was done. Like, I don't think it was serious. I don't think they were like, oh, but I don't want to tell her, but you tell her. I think they're like, yeah, someone should tell her. Yeah. Anyway. Oh, wait, look, this. Look, we're getting. This is getting traction. Like, I don't think they talked about it for very long at all. They're like, oh, yeah, somebody will tell Gabby. She'll see the post. She has notifications on. She'll see it. She'll say it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Who do you think is the villain here? Or do you think there is a villain here? Here?

[Lacey Moseley]

No, I think they're all kind of weird. I think Meline is too obsessed with Caleb. Like, what you got going on there, girl? He must be fine, huh? He's some fine. Because you looking at his breathing and blinking and heart rate like you're a little too focused on that landing, that vein of his neck. Baby girl, he's alive. You're good. And then Emma. I think Emma's in her own world. She probably couldn't even tell you who half these people are. Like, I bet you in two years, if you ask Emma about a Gabby, she be like, like, maybe. I don't know. I meet a lot of people, like, don't know who she is. And Caleb's like, I don't know, man. I just stand next to her, and then, like, she gives me half the money for, like, I don't know what we're doing. But, like, yeah, sometimes I'm holding, like, some grout, Other times we're in Italy. I don't know, man. So I don't think anybody's evil here. I think they're all just a little much. Madelyn's treating Emma like she goddamn Kim Kardashian with her 18,000 followers. Like, Madeline. I feel like you telling people, too. Like, yeah, well, my friend's an influencer. She has, like, 18,000 followers. Yeah, yeah, she's my best friend. She's an influencer.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, I do have a few updates for you. You were right. No one actually really cares about Emma and Caleb's announcement. Their breakup causes literally zero drama. The Reddit post and the micro influencer snark page gets like 10 upvotes.

[Lacey Moseley]

There's truly nothing worse than thinking you got emotion and then you don't got no emotion. I'd have been there girl. I'd have been on the red carpet and only one camera flashed. I was like, you know what? It's a part of life. Humility. Humility. They post now an faq. They was really in dalu world. Let the people ask some questions before you decide they gonna ask. So but I I like you know you gotta see it to achieve it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Caleb continues to be a carpenter and Emma gets a job in the city which means that they do have to sell their house that they renovated and during inspection they find out that Caleb basically did all the renovations incorrectly. But the house does sell and now Emma is embracing a digital detox lifestyle and that's the end of our story.

[Lacey Moseley]

I love that she told us about the detox before she did it. You could just do it but you know then she would have to drop the FAQs of why she was doing it. So I understand.

[Rachel Hampton]

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us@normal gossipefector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP if you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok Ormal Gossip. You can follow me on all social media aydenae subscribe to our YouTube channel Effector Media to watch today's episode. Normal Gossip is written by me, Rachel Hampton and jtolviera. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley, Ricks and jtolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatzick. Emily Cherish is our video editor. Theme music composed by Rishikesh Hirway. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal gossip are Kelsey McKinney and defector supervising producer Alex Sujong Laughlin. Justin Ellis is Defectors projects editor. Jasper Wang is Defective director's business guy. Tom Ley is our editor in chief. This season was made in memory of Dan McQuaid who ran our merch store which you can find at normalgossip Store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandi Jensen, David Roth, Catherine Shue, Sabrina Embler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford and Ray Ratto for your help with this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a perfect proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.

[Lacey Moseley]

Radiotopia from prx.