MFAs and Other Mistakes with Brittany Luse

Summary

Podcast Summary: Normal Gossip – "MFAs and Other Mistakes with Brittany Luse"

Episode Information:

• Title: MFAs and Other Mistakes with Brittany Luse
• Host: Kelsey McKinney
• Guest: Brittany Luce
• Release Date: June 19, 2024
• Podcast Description: Normal Gossip delivers juicy, strange, funny, and utterly banal gossip about people you’ll never know and never meet. Host Kelsey McKinney discusses reader-submitted comedic gossip with guests, diving into the lives and decisions of complete strangers.

---

1. Introduction to Brittany Luce

Timestamp: [02:27]

Kelsey McKinney welcomes Brittany Luce, an award-winning journalist and cultural critic, known for her work with NPR’s It's Been a Minute, Colored Nerds, The Nod, and Sampler. Brittany shares her excitement about being the first guest to appear twice on the show, highlighting a personal career milestone.

Notable Quote:

Brittany Luce [02:47]: "This is everything. The best part about that is, like, because I'm the first, I can use that, like, as a bullet point on my resume for the rest of my life."

---

2. The Role of Gossip and Memory Challenges

Timestamp: [03:08 – 07:56]

Brittany expresses her deep love for gossip, equating it to her "lifeblood." She humorously discusses her desire to live long enough to uncover decades-old celebrity gossip, using Beyoncé and Jay-Z as examples.

Kelsey's Observation:

Kelsey McKinney [07:48]: "We found out. Found this out before we started recording because we were talking about your last appearance on the show, and you were like, I don't remember that story at all."

Brittany reveals her struggles with memory, distinguishing between her ability to recall work-related information and her inability to remember personal interactions shortly after they occur.

Notable Quote:

Brittany Luce [06:20]: "I can put. It's at the tip of my fingertips all the time. Like, I'm just like, oh, yes, I can just pull this up."

The conversation explores how poor memory impacts gossiping among friends, turning what could be a hurdle into a "gossip flavor," allowing repetitive and refreshing revelations of the same stories.

---

3. The MFA Gossip Story: Mia, Riley, and Willow

Timestamp: [11:05 – 60:44]

Kelsey introduces a fictional gossip scenario involving Mia, a 25-year-old aspiring writer in an MFA program, her nemesis Riley, and a New York Times bestselling author, Willow. The story unfolds as follows:

a. Mia’s Ambitions and Challenges: Mia dreams of being a writer but faces skepticism and challenges within her MFA program. She becomes entangled with Riley, a science fiction writer who often critiques her literary works.

Notable Quote:

Kelsey McKinney [12:13]: "In these workshops, she has made an arch nemesis. Mia's nemesis. His name is Riley."

b. Book Festival Preparations: As the program culminates in a book festival, Mia is tasked with coordinating sessions for Willow. Complications arise when she is assigned to work with Riley, who is both her nemesis and unexpectedly attractive.

Notable Quote:

Brittany Luce [19:12]: "That's what I would do. I would just try to, like, get together, work it out and."

c. The Ferret Fiasco: Mia faces logistical nightmares transporting an exotic pet ferret named Mia, leading to a series of mishaps, including driving a faulty stick-shift van, Clifford, which lacks windshield wipers. The situation escalates when Mia accidentally starts a small fire while attempting to create a specialized wine glass for Willow, following misguided instructions.

Notable Quotes:

Kelsey McKinney [54:37]: "When he knocks over the bottle of alcohol and it begins spilling all over the desk." Brittany Luce [62:38]: "That lady from the festival, because she that up."

d. Crisis Management and Resolution: In a moment of panic, Mia triggers the fire alarm, causing a building-wide evacuation. Riley arrives with a fire extinguisher, and together they manage to control the situation. Despite the chaos, Willow appreciates Mia's dedication, albeit oblivious to the underlying turmoil.

Notable Quote:

Kelsey McKinney [58:06]: "Willow's a pro, obviously."

e. Aftermath and Reflections: Post-event, tensions remain as Mia grapples with her relationship with Riley and reflects on Willow's demanding nature. Brittany offers insights, suggesting that Mia may benefit from reassessing her perceptions and possibly forming a more amicable relationship with Riley.

Notable Quote:

Brittany Luce [64:05]: "I think that Mia is projecting on to Riley. And I think that Mia could do well with getting some good friends who can, like, push back on her on that."

---

4. Host and Guest Insights on the Gossip Story

Throughout the episode, Kelsey and Brittany dissect the fictional story, offering commentary on Mia's decision-making, crisis management, and interpersonal dynamics. They humorously critique Mia's handling of exotic pets in professional settings and Riley's role as both a nemesis and a crisis-resolver.

Notable Quote:

Brittany Luce [37:45]: "Because it's always getting the ferrets confused. Only the girls can tell them apart."

The discussion also touches on broader themes such as the pressures of MFA programs, the fine line between professional and personal relationships, and the unpredictability of event coordination.

---

5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [66:18 – 66:34]

As the episode wraps up, Kelsey thanks Brittany for her participation, and Brittany expresses her astonishment at the twists within the gossip story. They share a final humorous exchange about maintaining friendships and professional boundaries.

Notable Quote:

Brittany Luce [66:29]: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer and your ferrets far."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Gossip as a Social Catalyst: The episode highlights how gossip serves as a medium for social bonding, even amidst personal challenges like memory issues.
• Navigating Professional Relationships: Mia's interactions with Riley and Willow encapsulate the complexities of maintaining professionalism while dealing with personal grudges.
• Crisis Management: The fictional scenario underscores the importance of calm and effective crisis management in maintaining professional integrity.
• Humorous Reflection: Both host and guest use humor to reflect on exaggerated professional dilemmas, making light of situations that listeners might find relatable.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Brittany Luce [02:47]: "This is everything. The best part about that is, like, because I'm the first, I can use that, like, as a bullet point on my resume for the rest of my life."
• Brittany Luce [06:20]: "I can put. It's at the tip of my fingertips all the time. Like, I'm just like, oh, yes, I can just pull this up."
• Kelsey McKinney [12:13]: "In these workshops, she has made an arch nemesis. Mia's nemesis. His name is Riley."
• Kelsey McKinney [54:37]: "When he knocks over the bottle of alcohol and it begins spilling all over the desk."
• Brittany Luce [62:38]: "That lady from the festival, because she that up."
• Brittany Luce [64:05]: "I think that Mia is projecting on to Riley. And I think that Mia could do well with getting some good friends who can, like, push back on her on that."

---

This episode of Normal Gossip masterfully blends fictional storytelling with insightful commentary, offering listeners both entertainment and relatable discussions on the intricacies of gossip, professional relationships, and personal growth.

Transcript

[Alex Sujang Laughlin]

Hey there, it's Alex. You may have heard at the end of our episodes the phrase Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia, but maybe you don't know what that means. The media industry is kind of garbage right now and it is harder than ever for independent creatives to own their own work, get paid for their work, and to make a living off of their work. Radiotopia is trying to make that possible for more independent creators. They're really great partners for us and we have been so happy to work with them. Every year Radiotopia does a fundraising drive and right now we have a goal of reaching 2024 donors and maybe one of them is you. Your donations in the fall fundraiser go into marketing, ad sales, technology, and it also makes it possible to bring on new shows in the future. So maybe your next favorite podcast is just around the corner. If you are a Normal Gossip or Defector subscriber, that is different. If you donate during the fall fundraiser, you'll get a link to a curated list of all Radiotopia producers favorite things. As a token of thanks, I included something in there. You will never guess what it is. If you're listening to this episode right now, you are already supporting the work of Normal Gossip, Defector Media and Radiotopia. But if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia Fall FundRaiser, visit Radiotopia FM, donate to learn more and add your name to the list of awesome listeners who support independent podcasts. Thanks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello and welcome to the season finale of Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of Go the real world. I am so thrilled to have with me today Brittany Luce. Britney is an award winning journalist, on air host and cultural critic. She is currently the host of It's Been a Minute from npr. Previously she hosted for Colored Nerds, the Nod and Sampler podcasts. She's written for Vulture and Harper's Bazaar, among others, and edited for the podcast Planet Money and Not Past It. Luce and her work have been profiled by publications like the New York Times, the New Yorker and Teen Vogue. Britney, hello.

[Brittany Luce]

Hello, Kelsey. It's so good to be back.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's so good to be reunited. We had so much fun at the DC show. I think listeners may remember you from the Plant story, which is exciting for you because that means for them you are the first guest to ever appear in the feed twice.

[Brittany Luce]

This is such a moment in my life. This is such a career highlight. Oh My God, this is cool. Points. This is everything. The best part about that is, like, because I'm the first, I can use that, like, as a bullet point on my resume for the rest of my life.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. For people who may not remember, do you want to start us off with the classic first question and tell me and them what your relationship with gossip is?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh. I love gossip. Love it, love it, love it. It is like, it's just, you know, it's my lifeblood. It gives me something to like, I want to live a long life because I want to grow old with my husband. But also, like, I want to live a long life because I'm so nosy that I want to, like, I want to get all the hot Hollywood gossip that is, like, severely cooled off 30, 40 years from now. You know what I mean? I want to live long enough to find out what was said in the elevator. You know what I mean? Between Beyonce and Jay Z and Solange, I'm going to live for that. That is the thing that's willing myself.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love that.

[Brittany Luce]

And I want to grow old with my husband. But they're almost neck and neck, those motivations.

[Kelsey McKinney]

When you say your husband, are you talking about Ben Affleck? Oh, my God. Okay, that was so weird. Explain, explain.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay, so I was on a call with somebody who I had never met before, who's a really cool person, and she was like, oh, I was like, looking you up before this call.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Brittany Luce]

And she was like, it's. I don't know if you know this, but she was like, if. If you, like, Google your name, you know, and you know how on Google you, like, google a term and then all sorts of other search suggestions pop up. And very often for many people, it's like, spouse, girlfriend, husband, whatever.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because everyone in this whole world is so nosy.

[Brittany Luce]

I know, Exactly. And I'm sitting here like, I mean, I do the same thing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

But, yeah, So I guess husband is one that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That auto populates.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. And I had heard that before. I had some weirdness of that before, but in the past, I mean, I kind of like it because I'm like, I don't need everybody for my business. Right. But in the past, I. I liked it because the photos that would come up would be of my old co. Host and friend.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God, that's funny.

[Brittany Luce]

So it's just like, oh, Brittany Lee's husband, this guy. Because there's like a bajillion photos of us together or whatever because we worked together for so long, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Google's like, people have people who are a man and a woman standing next to each other. Married.

[Brittany Luce]

Married. Exactly. So I kind of was, like, cool with that. I was like, oh. But then she's like, I don't know if you know this. She's like, but your husband shows up as Ben Affleck. I was like, what? Since when? And then I googled it. Britney Lou's husband and Ben Affleck comes up. It also says. It also says that, like, I starred in this Is Me Now.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. Congratulations.

[Brittany Luce]

Thank you. Thank you. It's one of my, like, biggest accomplishments. I personally spent $20 million on it. That was not Jennifer Lopez. Don't believe the hype.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. You spent $20 million on your accomplished film about how you're a love addict and who you're really in love with is Ben Affleck.

[Brittany Luce]

And my husband, Ben Affleck, he supported me through the whole thing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow, that's so beautiful.

[Brittany Luce]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Something I want to talk about with you is that you and I famously have really, really terrible memories. Like, we can't remember anything.

[Brittany Luce]

No, I can remember things. Like, if I go to work, like, if I'm in the context of, like, if I have to prepare to talk to someone, I can recall any. Any information that I absorb. It's like, I can. I can put. It's at the tip of my fingertips all the time. Like, I'm just like, oh, yes, I can just pull this up.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

And then as soon as it's something, like, from my real life or, gosh, don't let a day or two pass since I had the interview and someone's like, how did it go? And I'm like, what interview?

[Kelsey McKinney]

How'd what go?

[Brittany Luce]

What? How'd what go? Like, I just have no memory of anything anymore. And I used to not be like that, but now it's like my brain can't hold water.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, we found out. Found this out before we started recording because we were talking about your last appearance on the show, and you were like, I don't remember that story at all.

[Brittany Luce]

It was a good one. That was a juicy story, which I.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think is beautiful. How does your bad memory play into your gossiping, like, with friends?

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. I think that there's a way in which you could look at a poor memory as, like, a gossip hurdle.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Brittany Luce]

But I actually think of it as, like, almost like a gossip flavor because.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, a little seasoning.

[Brittany Luce]

Exactly. Well, you know what it is? It's like. It's like if someone Tells me something. Now I am so, like, you know, like, you know, you're. When I was younger, people were like, oh, don't. Don't tell anybody.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Now I'm like, tell them what?

[Brittany Luce]

I literally don't remember what you just said. I cannot remember anything. So it's like, kind of helpful, I think, for the person who's telling me the gossip, because I just literally don't remember anymore.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

But then also it's kind of cool for me because, like, you know, when we come back around. Yeah. Loop back around to the gossip in another few weeks, next month, I get the surprise all over again of hearing the Juice again. I'm like, oh, my God. They're like, I told you that. And I'm like, you're right. The memory, searing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I. Something that happens to me often that maybe you will identify with is that, like, someone will say, like, oh, I have this update on a, like, months old gossip. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. We are close friends. You know that I have no memory of whatever this gossip is that you're talking about. And they're like, okay, okay. And then they tell it again. And like, halfway through, I remember what we're talking about. Right. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I remember this drama about your sister or whatever.

[Brittany Luce]

Yes, yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But then that's also kind of fun because they're retelling the gossip from six months ago with the information they have now. Right. Which changes the way that you tell something because it's like if the villain has shifted since then, it's like all of a sudden people that were told we were on their side before are now doing bad stuff all the time.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, it's so. It's so true. And it, like, also, like, it causes them to, like, emphasize different points, you know, I mean, it can really enrich the storytelling experience. And me and my husband.

[Kelsey McKinney]

My Ben Affleck number.

[Brittany Luce]

My husband. Exactly. My number one gossip buddy. Number one gossip partner. Oh, my gosh. And it's great too, because he also doesn't remember a lot of things either. And.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wait, I have to have. I want to ask you question first before you continue, which is when. How soon in your dating process did you realize that your husband was a good gossiper?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh. Like, very, very early in our dating process. Like, I mean, there was one, like, at one of our, like, early sleepovers. We.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Sleepovers?

[Brittany Luce]

Yes. You know, I mean, you know, I'm keeping it Chase. But yeah, one of our early sleepovers. We stayed up until like 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning gossiping. Like, gossiping. There was like one point, like, early in our dating where I realized, oh my gosh. That somebody who I had gone out on like two dates with, okay, who was really bizarre and just a very strange character, didn't seem like a safe person to be around. Yeah. We realized like within our first two dates that he, this guy had somehow recently attended like a barbecue that my husband had or my then boyfriend or whatever now husband had thrown, like, right before we started dating. So we had the experience of meeting this very, very busy star person.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

Where we were just like, okay, wait. Because I was trying. Because, you know, none of the rest of my friends, I was trying to describe. I'm like, yo, I want to date with this guy. It was weird as hell. Like, this is wild. I was trying to describe to my friends because they were like, maybe you're writing them off. I'm like, no, something is off. The vibes are not right. And then my, my husband also met the same person.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We were like, yo, what a gift to an early relationship to be like, have you both met, like, you've both met this person who behaved very strangely and you have no one else to talk to about respond.

[Brittany Luce]

Yes, I know. It was like, g. I mean, we can gossip like forever. Like, we have literally no problem gossiping whatsoever forever and ever.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love that. Would you like to hear the gossip that I have prepared for you?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, hell yes. Yes. I've been waiting for this. I'm so excited.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Okay, our friend of a friend this week we're going to call her Mia.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia had big dreams of being a writer. And in her dreams, she was like thinking typewriter, thinking stacks of paper thinking, like, not stacks of bills that she can't pay with her salary.

[Brittany Luce]

Like His Girl Friday.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Literally.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, I have all these dreams and she still has them because she's very young, but they are slowly starting to disintegrate. She's 25 years old. What is your opinion of MFA programs?

[Brittany Luce]

My degree is in film production. I don't know nothing about nobody's MFA creative writing program. There's a. The MFA discourse that I hear People talking about or see people talking about on Twitter all the time. I watch it. It's like, it's like challengers. Like, I'm watching tennis. And like, I don't understand tennis either. And that's how I feel.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Back and forth, back.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. But it seems like other people have a lot of opinions about MFA programs.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's opinion is that she's pro because she's in an MFA program for fiction.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she writes, like, literary work. And the way these MFA programs work is like you go into workshops and you bring in your little story and then everyone reads your story and critiques it.

[Brittany Luce]

It's like on girls.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. In these workshops, she has made an arch nemesis. Mia's nemesis. His name is Riley.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Riley only writes science fiction and only brings science fiction to workshops. And his stories are about, like, aliens. Usually.

[Brittany Luce]

Makes sense. Sci fi. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And one time Mia was like, okay, I have a criticism to give up this story. But, like, I don't read a lot of science fiction. So, like, take my comment with a grain of salt. And Riley was like, it's not science fiction, it's speculative fiction.

[Brittany Luce]

I do like speculative fiction. So I understand. I understand what Riley's saying, but it still sounds like he's being a little nitpicky.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. It's also like, okay, like, I was just trying to give a caveat that maybe you don't have to take this criticism. Right? So she's like, she's like, this guy's always making me crazy. And she writes, like, literary fiction. She is not interested in genre and she, like, wants the glory of, like, prestige Land. So they are in a feud. And the feud is mostly one sided in that Mia dislikes Riley and he doesn't really know or care anything about this.

[Brittany Luce]

Interesting. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the worst part about this nemesis is that Riley is hot.

[Brittany Luce]

That makes things difficult.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And he's like a specific type of hot, right? Like, he's short, but he has like a huge presence in the room. He has like a tongue piercing. He has a great sense of personal style. He's always wearing, like, thrifted chore jackets.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So, like, she can't shit talk him to anyone because everyone else in the workshop is like, I don't know, I think he's cute.

[Brittany Luce]

That's MFA cat catnip right there. The man that you've just described. Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is the third year of their three year MFA program. Mia is like, it's the third year, so I just have to ignore my hot Annoying nemesis for, like, the rest of this year, and then I will be free of him.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But because it's their last year, that also means it's their last book festival in the program. Why are you look so upset?

[Brittany Luce]

Because I just am thinking. I. You know what it is? I'm just thinking about, like, what? When you say, like, it's the last year, it's like, the last year of their program. He's hot. I'm like, she should hook up with him. That's, like, the worst ideas. I'm like, maybe they'll get over the feud. I don't know. But. Okay, but you were going. You were talking about the book festival.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, Right. Less horny.

[Brittany Luce]

Less horny.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So their MFA program is in a city that hosts this book festival. And because the MFA program is, like, hot and important, the members of the MFA program get to help.

[Brittany Luce]

Gotcha.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they, like, transport writers to sessions. They help check people in. They wear lanyards. It's like the whole nine yards. Are they paid? No, of course not. This is about the experience. It's a networking opportunity.

[Brittany Luce]

Right, right, right, right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And because Mia is a third year, and because, like, she's well liked within the program, she knows that she's gonna get one of the good jobs.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you want to guess what one of the good jobs might be?

[Brittany Luce]

I'm guessing that one of the good jobs is, like, probably escorting a writer somewhere or, like, being in a green room or something like that. Something like, I feel like something where you get, like, FaceTime with, like, bold face names.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. And every year, there's, like, different levels of writers that are coming in. Right. So there's, like, you know, normal writers who are doing, like, one panel. There's, like, mid tier writers that are doing, like, a panel and a talk, and then there is, like, one headliner, and the headliner is, like, a fancy writer celebrity.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And very few third years get assigned to the headliner. Do you think an author can be a list?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, I mean, I feel like that's, like, a question that depends on where you live. I think me living in New York, I would say yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Brittany Luce]

But maybe if I lived someplace else, I would be like, are you kidding me?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, yes. It's like the same thing that affects every industry where it's like, there are people that everyone in that industry is like, I love them. They're a rock star. And then you talk to, like, anyone who's normal, and they're like, who? Because, like, the thing is Actual rock stars are famous, not like podcasters and authors and, like, other people.

[Brittany Luce]

Exactly.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So there's a little bit of delusion happening here where they're like, the A list author. Right.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the past few years, the A list author has been, like, people Mia doesn't care about. Right. Like, they're, like, genre writers, or they're like assholes, or they're, like, just people whose work she doesn't respect.

[Brittany Luce]

Right, Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But this year, she gets the email and she's assigned to the headliner.

[Brittany Luce]

Huge.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the headliner is an author who we're gonna call Willow.

[Brittany Luce]

Ooh. Okay. Willow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Willow is a New York Times bestseller. She's had her books turned into movies. She's, like, not for normals like Stephenie Meyer. She's, like, more literary. Right. She's like a writer's writer.

[Brittany Luce]

The kind of writer that it sounds like Mia wants to be.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mm. Yes. So Mia is thrilled because she's like, I'm assigned to Willow. Willow is like, the future I want for myself. And then she rereads the email, and who else is assigned to Willow? Oh, no, but her number one enemy, her nemesis, Riley.

[Brittany Luce]

So what are they gonna do?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Well, how do you feel about this?

[Brittany Luce]

Well, I mean, on one hand, like, considering the fact that Riley doesn't really have any awareness of their feud, it seems like he wouldn't wanna, like, go out of his way to, like, undercut her or something like that. Like, that seems like, okay, well, maybe it's gonna be fine. And also, too, if he's, like, really committed to being, like, a genre writer, then maybe he's just, like, excited about the opportunity, but not, like, super trying to be up in Willow's face anyway, so it could be. Oh, it could be okay. But I have a feeling that Mia has anxiety about this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, I think this is a great read. Like, I do think it could be okay. But Mia does not feel that way. Mia feels annoyed and she feels mad, and she's like, riley doesn't even like Willow's work. Like, he has specifically said in workshops that is boring and indecipherable.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's, like, this bad because, like, I don't want this guy around when I'm trying to, like, network with this author. Yeah, she's like. But also, I'm not threatened by him. Like, he's a genre writer. He doesn't care about Willow. Like, I'm excited about Willow. So, like, I'm just going to focus on what I need to do.

[Brittany Luce]

That's the best. That's the best thing she could do, right then.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You think so?

[Brittany Luce]

I think so, yeah. Just focus on. Focus on, like. Like, just having. And don't even think. Put the blinders onto Riley and then just focus on, like, just soaking up everything that you can and making a connection with below. That's what I would do.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. It's a good, like, business move.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Mia's doing this. She's, like, finishing up her work for the year. She's, like, reading all of Willow's books to prepare for her visit. When it's, like, almost time for the festival, they get sent an email that's like, here's Willow's schedule. And the schedule is, like, packed. Right? Like, it's like she gets in on Monday and then it's like she's doing workshops on Tuesday, she's giving a craft talk on Wednesday, she's doing a panel. She's going to dinner on Thursday. She has a small group reading on Friday. Is, like, the big headline event where she's busy. She is busy.

[Brittany Luce]

Booked and busy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But what this means is that Mia is really going to need to coordinate with Riley because there is so much to do.

[Brittany Luce]

They couldn't, like, there's no way that, like, they could just intuitively split it up or that, like, she could do all of it herself.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right. And there's no way that they could be like, oh, like, you take Monday, I'll take Tuesday. Right. Like, it's like, it's too much. How do you coordinate with Riley?

[Brittany Luce]

I would probably just hit him up and say, hey, like, you know, this schedule is a lot, like, why don't we just, like, get together, have a coffee or just get on the phone or zoom or something like that, and then just, like, us assign who's going to do what, like, just break down the week and. Yeah, just, like, get fear on how we're going to do it. So everything is smooth because at the end of the day, like, the most important, like, the number one most important thing is that Willow has a smooth and good experience. Because, like, I think the worst possible thing that could happen is that she has a bad experience and remembers you for that. Like, it's kind of neutral if she doesn't really remember you or doesn't care either way. But if it's a bad experience, that's. That just seems like a bad situation for you in your future. So that's what I would do. I would just try to, like, get together, work it out and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And coordinate something I think is Interesting is that when you were like, I'm gonna coordinate with someone, you were like, in person. Phone call, zoom meeting.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia is like, I will send an email.

[Brittany Luce]

Mia.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, sending emails. This is, like, not working. Because it's, like, difficult to coordinate something like this if you are sending emails back and forth.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. And people have very different relationships to emails, too. Some people, like, don't even care about reading them. They're just like, if it's urgent, they'll call me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. And so eventually, Riley is like, this is not working. Like, we can't agree on anything. There's too many emails. Like, I can't keep up with any of this shit. Can you just, like, meet me at a coffee shop and we can, like, hash it out?

[Brittany Luce]

You think that makes sense to me? Yeah, I think that makes sense.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia goes, and she shows up, and he is reading Middlemarch, which is, like, one of Mia's favorite books. And so she's annoyed because she. And she's also like, unfortunately, this is a turn on for me. So she's like, this sucks because I'm like, that's one of my favorite books. And also, you're supposed to be a genre writer and my enemy.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay, so he's reading Middlemarch, and she's reluctantly turned on.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Huh. And because of this, she's, like, more predisposed to coordinate with him. Right. Because she's like, well, he, like, is reading this book that I like.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. So she's like, I'll just let him, like, take the lead on this conversation. So he's like, okay, the first thing we need to do is pick up Willow from the airport. Yeah, right. Like, that's the first thing. So he's like, mia, do you have a car? And Mia's like, no, but the program said that we could use, like, the program's car for the whole week.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Riley is like, have you ever driven that thing? And Mia's like, no. And Riley's like, it is, like, literally a piece of, like, I'm gonna pick her up from the airport in my car. But Mia's like, that means that I, like, can't help at all if I don't have, like, a car. And he's like, no, I think it's fine for you to use that car to, like, transport her. But I don't think the first impression she should have of program. Exactly. Do you think this is reasonable?

[Brittany Luce]

I think this is pretty reasonable. I could see how it's giving me anxiety, but because it's like, she probably wants to be the first face that, that Willow sees when she's coming in from, you know, when she's coming out of the airport. And now she's going to have this like little short king, sexy, short, literary king, who's kind of going to be a little bit nonchalant about this. Right. He's not going to be as pressed as she is. So there's gonna be this young hot guy picking her up from the airport in his car. That, assuming, I'm assuming, is not a hooptie.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Brittany Luce]

And Right. And he's gonna have probably a more relaxed attitude. So I could see how she's like, I could see how Mia's stressed. But also I. I think that what Riley is suggesting is fair based upon what it sounds like Mia has shared with him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's what I would say. He's like, okay, so there's like a lot we need to do the day she arrives. He's like, so I'll go. Like, I'll wait at the airport to make sure that I'm there when she arrives. If you can go and like, get all the things for her house. Because there's like a list of things that she needs.

[Brittany Luce]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because it's like the author stays in, like, off campus housing in like, you know, one of those beautiful off campus houses, and her house has to be like, fully supplied. Mia's like, totally. This sounds great. They coordinate the rest of the week. Then she like, walks out of the coffee shop and she's like, how did this happen? She's like, how did I end up not picking her up from the airport? The day before the author is set to arrive, she is sent an email that has, like, all the things the author needs for the house. Right. Like, it's basically a writer. And it's a long list because the author is also bringing her two children.

[Brittany Luce]

Now see, the university or the book festival messed up by only giving her that list the day before.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I know.

[Brittany Luce]

They should have given her that list the week before.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So Mia's like, okay, I'll get up early. I'll go get the, like, car that I can use. I'll take it to the grocery store. I'll have plenty of time to, like, get all these things that I need to get. Sure. She goes to get the car. And immediately she understands what Riley has been talking about, which is that when she goes to get the keys, the guy's like, oh, you're here to get Clifford. And she's like, who's Clifford? And he's like, Clifford.

[Brittany Luce]

They only name cars when they're raggedy as hell. They only name cars when they're raggedy. They only do that when they're raggedy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And he's like, oh, Clifford's out back. Here are the keys. Clifford is a giant van that is actually three vans welded together. So it's like, what? It's like the front of it is, like, really red, which is why they call it, like, it's a red van in the front, but then in the middle, like, the doors have been replaced and those are white. And then, like, the back is, like, a black van.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh. Oh, poor baby. That sounds wretched.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And also, no one has told Mia that Clifford is a stick shift.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God. I don't know. I mean, I'm a great driver. I do not know how to drive sick. And, like, is that even something you can learn from, like, YouTube? That sounds impossible.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I did learn to drive stick from a YouTube video, and let me tell you, it took forever and was hard.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, okay, I'll watch three YouTube videos on my phone. I'll, like, try and figure it out. So it takes her forever to get to the grocery store because she's just, like, stalling every time she has to stop.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God. Okay. And then she's gonna have to drive the author and the kids around all week in that. Oh, my God. Okay, go ahead. This is bad.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She gets to the grocery store, she's, like, looking at the list. There's like, all this fancy stuff, right? It's like the foggy 5%, the, like, organic cereal, those big Castrovano olives.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Plain seltzer of a special, like, specific brand.

[Brittany Luce]

Bipolar seltzer.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my gosh, it's so nice. And there's, like, all of these things that the kids need to write, like juice boxes and string cheese and, like, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Those little, little mandarin oranges. Delicious.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, no problem. She gets all these things. She's feeling good. But then at the bottom of the list, there are, like, more things. And these are not groceries.

[Brittany Luce]

So they're like things you get from other places.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, they are. Specifically a litter box with a scoop. Soft chicken flavored treats. Eco straw litter. And a large cage with at least two levels.

[Brittany Luce]

I'm sorry, I've never even seen a cage with two levels in my life. I mean, granted, I'm not a pet person. I'm allergic to cats, but she. So this author is Bringing, I'm guessing two children and also a cat.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's bringing something.

[Brittany Luce]

Something. I'm like, is there links? Like, what's going on? That's so scary.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia is also like, jesus Christ. Like, what is this? So she, like, goes to a pet store, and she's like, I need these things. Like, can you help me get them? And the guy's like, sure, but like, what kind of pet is this for? And Mia's like, I don't know. Like, I assume it's a cat. And the pet store guy is like, cats don't have two story cages. And she's like, I don't know, dude. Like, please help me.

[Brittany Luce]

What?

[Kelsey McKinney]

She gets all these things. She puts them all into the back of Clifford. But as she's, like, closing the doors, it begins raining. She gets into Clifford, and it turns out that Clifford does not have functioning windshield wipers.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh. So she's just like, driving a stick shift in the rain. She can't see anything?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And she's, like, running out of time. So she's like, I can't just sit here.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, no, she can't.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I can't wait. But she's also like, I can't really see out the front window. That's dangerous when it's raining, which is dangerous. So she sticks her head out the.

[Brittany Luce]

Window to see and drives that way all the way home and drives that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Way, stalling at every side.

[Brittany Luce]

I would have given up all the way up. Willow girl, you can come by Clifford. This is our little. This is the Willow fridge over here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, she gets here. She, like, drives the car. She does it. She makes it there. She gets to this beautiful house. She's like, unloading all their stuff, right? She's like, putting the string cheeses in the fridge. She's like, putting all this stuff in the floor. She's sl. She's like, I did it right. I got all this stuff here to this beautiful house. There's still 20 minutes before they arrive. I did it. Time to go home. She opens the front door, and there is Willow.

[Unknown]

Despite wearing a hat every single day all summer long, I do have the skin of a Victorian ghost. Which means that if the sun even finds. Finds one little spot of skin that has not had sunscreen applied in the last, like, one hour, it destroys it. And so, you know, after a summer.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Trying to avoid the sun, I still.

[Unknown]

Ended up with a little tiny dark spot on my cheek, which is so annoying. But, you know, skin changes over time, and it can be so overwhelming to figure out the right products for your skin, which is why we're excited to partner with Apostrophe, the sponsor of this episode.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Apostrophe's goal is to help you feel.

[Unknown]

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[Kelsey McKinney]

One of the most forbidden topics in gossip is money. What's going on in your checking account? You would never, ever, ever ask your friend because you don want to be asked what's going on in your checking account? Because God knows what's going on in there. Every, like, six months, we all have a realization that's like, I should probably get serious about my finances. I should probably learn what a budget is. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make serious money moves. Take control of your finances by using a chime checking account with features like no Maintenance fees fee, free overdrafts up to $200 or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in 2 minutes at chime.com gossip that's chime.com gossip Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp bank in a or Stride bank in a Members FDIC SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. Willow is tall. She's wearing boots. She's wearing sunglasses. She looks incredible. She looks very surprised to see someone in the house that she's staying in.

[Brittany Luce]

Uh huh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Riley, who has driven Willow and her children here, is like, oh, this is my friend Mia. And Mia's like, friend?

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, hello, it's so nice to meet you. I'm in the same MFA program as Riley. Like, Riley, oh, it's a pleasure. Like, I love your work. Her hair is dripping. Like, the top of her shirt is wet.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God. This is not the impression that she wanted to make.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. She's like, I'm so sorry. Like, the school car doesn't have windshield wipers, but, like, all of your stuff is here that you need.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. Okay, okay. But everything's there. Everything's there. Like, everything's fair. Also, that shows dedication. It's like, oh, my gosh. Like, I got you all these things I had to get. Yeah. It doesn't have windshield wipers, but I made it work. And everything is set for you. That's impressive in its own way.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And one thing Mia knows is, like, how to not overstay her welcome. Right? So she's like, welcome to your house. I hope you have a great time. Riley and I are leaving. Goodbye. Right?

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Riley is like, oh, my God, what happened to you? And she's like, I don't want to talk about it. But you were really right about Clifford.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The next day, Mia has to go pick up the author to drive her to events. So she drives over, she, like, parks Clifford in the driveway. She gets out, she knocks on the door. Willow opens the door, and out from the front door runs a ferret.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God. I mean, no disrespect, no disrespect to people for their choice of pet. I'm gonna tell you something right now, please. A ferret Looks like a snake and a rat had a baby. And I don't like that. I don't like that. Something about that is not right to keep in your house. It's not right. But a ferret. Willow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia screeches because a ferret has read my heart. She's like. And then Willow from the doorway is like, mia. No, wait. And Mia is like, actually like, oh, my God, I have fucked up already. Right? Like, she's like. She's like, I'm so sorry. I just, like, wasn't expecting to see a ferret. And Willow's like, what? And Mia's like, you said Mia. No. And Willow's like, yeah, the ferret's name is Mia.

[Brittany Luce]

That is. I. I mean, I know it's just a coincidence, but that is so embarrassing. You the exact same name as the little ferret that she brought on her trip. Also, Willow girl, why are you bringing your ferret on the ship? There's no ferret little home that they can stay at, Like a ferret kennel or something like that?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Mia's like, my name is Mia. And then she's like, so me and that ferret have the same name? And Willow is like, I think so.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. So.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Willow's like, we have to catch the ferret. So they're like, running around, and ferrets have, like, weird, like, spaghetti noodle bodies. Like, they, like, kind of hop around in this, like, unsettling way.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, unsettling is.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right Person. Mia is like, chasing ferret. Mia. And finally, like, they get it. They're like. They have Mia.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God. See, they would have had kicked me off the program. I would have been fired. Because I would have been like, I am not helping this lady catch a long little ra. What's that? Willow, baby, that is. I don't want to get in between family business. You're on your own catching the.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Sorry, I'm not here to catch a ferret. Yeah, so they go inside with a ferret. They close the door behind them. And Mia is like. She can't get over the fact that Willow was like, I think that that's her name. I think that the ferret is also named Mia. And so Mia's like, what do you mean you think its name is Mia? And Willow is like, oh, I'm always getting the ferrets confused. Only the girls can tell them apart.

[Brittany Luce]

There's more than one ferret. Oh, that's. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That is. Now, see, I'm gonna tell you something. I know that Mia, real Mia, is a fan of Willow. I wouldn't be a fan anymore. That would be. That for me. That is a line I cannot cross. That is. You have the kind. I'm sorry. It. To me, it's a character flaw if you think it's a. It's a character flaw that you think that you need to be bringing your two exotic pets with you for a book festival. If you're such a star. If you're such a star and you have all this money, hire someone. Hire somebody to sit at your house and ferret sit all week. Get a. Get a grip. And also, like, why do you have so many ferrets that you're gonna confuse? That is. Yeah, I'm sorry. That. It's just. It does not sit right with me. That is a character. Blah. And what's the other ferret's name? Actually, what's the other ferret's name?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Good question. Mia is like, how many ferrets are there?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God. I assume there's only two. Are there more?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Willow is like, there's just two.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, just two.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia and Thermopolis.

[Brittany Luce]

I mean, those are cute names. Okay. I do love. I love the Princess Diaries.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Real Mia is like, I love Willow so much like, this. She's so.

[Brittany Luce]

She's. Okay, so wait. Mia's loving this. Mia's loving this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia is not loving the ferrets, but she is loving that Willow named her ferrets after Mia.

[Brittany Luce]

Thermometer. Okay, that's cute. That's cute. Good for her. I'm glad. You know what, Mia? If you like it, I love it. But. Yes, let's go ahead.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love that you're like, having a ferret that you take to a book festival is a character flaw. And then you're like, if Mia loves it, I love it.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, if she likes it, I love it. Good for you, girl.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is how I know you're a good friend. Mia's like, okay, great. I'm so glad we've had this huge adventure, but we need to go. Like, yeah, she can pick her up. And Willow's like, great, I'm ready to go. So she drives Willow to her event, like, drops her off. That's all perfectly nice. She only stalls Clifford one time. She's like, I nailed it.

[Brittany Luce]

Good for her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

When she sees her in the green room later, Willow's like, thank you so much. Like, could you go get my girls and Mia and Thermopolis and bring them to me this afternoon?

[Brittany Luce]

Wait, bring them to her where? Bring the ferrets with her to an event.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So this book festival is taking place in a huge library.

[Brittany Luce]

Cute. Okay. But I don't think that's an appropriate place for a ferret or two ferrets.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So there's like tons of floors and stacks and stuff. And the giant library has a stage with, like a theater. Like an amphitheater with a stage that's attached to it for, like, events. Because there's a stage. There's like green rooms behind the stage. Right. So that's like where Willow is set up for the week. Like, she can keep her stuff there. She can decompress.

[Brittany Luce]

It's like kind of like her little home away from home, basically.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. So Willow is like, can you get my girls and their ferrets and bring them to my green room?

[Brittany Luce]

This just seems so unwise to me. I just. This seems so unwise also. Like, are rodents allowed in libraries? Because those are rodents. I just want to be clear. Are they allowed around? Are they allowed in libraries?

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they like, check with the head of the convention. And she's like, whatever Willow wants, Willow gets.

[Brittany Luce]

Poor boundaries. That is. I'm sorry, a library is a government building, essentially.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, yes.

[Brittany Luce]

You cannot just bring.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I mean, our taxpayer money is not paying for ferrets to romp around.

[Brittany Luce]

Like, I mean, I suppose if those were her service animals, that's one thing, but that does not seem to be the case. It seems to me like it doesn't make sense that you can just bring your two unruly little squirrely little rodents.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I agree.

[Brittany Luce]

Into a multi floor library, like you said, where there's tons of stacks and little crevices for them to. I mean, they could barely find them in the little house. So there's too many nasty little places that a ferret, two ferrets could hide in the library. Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, okay. She's like, but I'm not going to get them today. So she's like, riley, good luck. So Riley goes and gets the girls, and he brings the girls and the ferrets to the green room. It all works out fine. The next day, Mia's like, same thing. I go get Willow in the morning. I take her, I drop her off, I get her coffee, I help her prep. This afternoon, Riley is like, I'm in the middle of doing something else for her. Can you go get her daughters and ferrets and bring them to the green room? And Mia's like, totally. She does it. This goes fine. Except for the fact that she stalls Clifford, like six times.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay, but. But everybody got there okay. And the ferrets and everything. The girls, Everything's fine. Fine.

[Kelsey McKinney]

On the third day, she does the same thing all again. Gets the girls in the ferrets, takes them to the green room. And the girls are like, we're hungry. And Mia's like, no problem. There's like a snack room. I'll go get you something. Don't worry about it. So she goes to get them snacks. She gets distracted, right? She's like gabbing. She's gabbing with someone because of like, of course there's someone to gab with there.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's been there for like 10 minutes when her cell phone starts buzzing like crazy. It is the group chat for the, like, third years working this program.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it says in all caps, Mia is missing.

[Brittany Luce]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Mia is like, I am at the snack table. And the group is like, not very Mia.

[Brittany Luce]

That's a nightmare. Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, right?

[Brittany Luce]

Like, what the is she gonna do now?

[Kelsey McKinney]

How do you find a spirit? What is your strategy here?

[Brittany Luce]

My strategy? Me as a me. Not me. Yeah. My strategy is I'll get somebody else to do it. That's my strategy. At that point. It's on my hands.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're like, someone needs to stay with the girls.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, I'd be like, I gotta stay with the girls. But I suppose what I would do is get everybody together and probably put two people on every floor or two people in every region of the. The library and have people looking. And also one thing that I would ask the girls is like, is there anything that like, Mia really loves or is really afraid of? So it's like maybe those little like chickeny snacks or was it chickeny little snacks or whatever. Yeah. So like, maybe like just little, like figuring out how. How they can like coax. Like, like. Yeah, just getting some clues. So I'll get some clues and then try to split everybody up into to like groups or pairs to go looking for the ferrets.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. This is like a full out search committee. Right. Like they have a strategy. They're splitting people up into floors. They're sending people to the top floor to work down. Like they're doing all this stuff. They're having to go into panels and like, look around on the ground while people are like, talking.

[Brittany Luce]

Although I feel like if they found a ferret in a crowd like somewhere watching, people would start screaming. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I would, I would start crying and I would leave. I'll get an app. I Would be at the airport.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Listen to gossip. I would not be sitting. I wouldn't be still at the book festival.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're looking everywhere. Cannot find Mia.

[Brittany Luce]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That means that Mia has to tell Willow, right? When Willow comes back from her event, she's like, I'm so sorry. I left the girls to get them snacks.

[Brittany Luce]

All this happened while Willow was at her event.

[Kelsey McKinney]

One of her events.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, yeah. So Willow was at one of her. All this happened while Willow is at one of her events. And Mia, girl, you know, Mia, girl, I'm trying to root for you. I'm trying to root for you, but if you're put and put in charge of kids, you can't. You really can't turn your back for longer than two seconds because. Breaks loose. But damn. So she has to tell Willow now that all this has just gone nuts while she's.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She tells Willow. And Willow is like, mia is always doing this. Like, she's always missing. And real Mia is, like, in her head, right? Like, why would you bring a ferret that's always going on a trip and then make me bring the ferret to the library? But whatever.

[Brittany Luce]

Skill issue. Okay?

[Kelsey McKinney]

She drives Willow and the one left ferret, Thermopolis, and the two daughters back to their house that afternoon. And then she gets a text from Riley that's like, I heard you lost the ferret.

[Brittany Luce]

I don't like that tone.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, excuse me. You are equally as responsible for losing a ferret because we are both on Willow duty. Like, do not blame me for this. I can't do anything. And Riley is like, whoa, Sorry. I was like, really? Just messing with you. And she's like, fine. Next day, still no ferret.

[Brittany Luce]

Geez. Oh, that's so scary. Okay. Because then. Oh, gosh. It's like, what if it died? You know what I'm saying? It could be found, like, somewhere in the library.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Willow's, like, doing her class with undergrads or whatever. So she's busy. And Mia is, like, also busy because she is, like, setting up trails of treats that go to, like, cardboard box traps. Right? It's like. It's giving Tom and Jerry. It's giving. Like, you poke your head into one room, and then, like, your head comes out the other doorway across the hall. Right? Like, her eyes are always on the ground.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh. She's constantly setting ferret traps. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because she's always looking down for the ferret. This is how, in the afternoon, she accidentally opens the door to the bathroom, which Willow is In.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, wow. Okay. So they are getting really close, and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She'S like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

[Brittany Luce]

Shit. Mia. Okay, okay, okay. But she's. It's. That's embarrassing. She's focused, though, on trying to set these ferret traps.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. She's like, this sucks. Like, I can't win. The girls are up upset. They want their ferret back. The ferret is nowhere to be found. Like, how are you feeling at this point?

[Brittany Luce]

I'm stressed out for her. I also, like, I'm just like, she's done some things that I wouldn't have done in this situation, but I know that her heart is in the right place. And I'm even just the fact that she's setting all these ferret traps, like, that's literally so much more than I would have given that situation at that point. But, yeah, I mean, it's clear she's under a lot of pressure, and this is obviously not the impression that she wanted to make. But I'm also just like, I just have this sneaking suspicion that this ferret is going to pop up at, like, the worst possible time. And it's just. It's like. It's like giving me the ickiest feeling.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm so nervous while. So this is the day before the big keynote event. Okay. That she, like, walks in on Willow in the bathroom. On this same day in the afternoon, the head coordinator of the whole festival comes into the green room, comes to Mia, and it's like, you're the point person on Willow, right. And Mia is like, me and Riley. But, yeah, me and the coordinator is like, okay. So we've made this gift basket for her that, like, I'm gonna put under the couch, and then you can, like, pull it out and put it on the table for her while she's on stage. Right. So that when she comes back off stage, there's this, like, lovely gift basket there.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, I love this idea. It's so cute. The coordinator is like, I have learned, though, that Willow is a collector of a very specific thing.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. Is it ferrets?

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, it is. Have you ever seen where they, like, slice a wine bottle and then it's a cup?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see it all the time on TikTok. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So she, like, collects these from, like, local wineries or something. Oh, thank.

[Brittany Luce]

That's cute. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, it's totally cute. But, like, the place where this book festival is, there are no local wineries that are, like, good. So the festival person is Like, I don't want to give her one of those like. Like that. Everyone hates these wineries. That would be insane. And Mia is like, okay. And the coordinator's like, but I have these, like, stickers that are clear. She's like, so I thought that, like, you could make her one no. And then put the festival logo on it.

[Brittany Luce]

I would have just said no to that. I would have said, like, that is. I mean, that involves, like, cutting glass, right? I'm in an MFA program for writing. That's. I'm thinking about me. I'm. Again, I didn't come here to get my MFA in glass blowing, mixed media, visual arts, ceramics, none of that. So I just would have said, absolutely not. That is something that seems like it could injure me and you. Really. This is actually an inappropriate ask. That's what I would have said.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Nia is like, so you're asking me to make a glass out of a wine bottle? That's hard.

[Brittany Luce]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the coordinator is like, yes, thank you so much.

[Brittany Luce]

And then she leaves. And she leaves. So then what does me. Okay, so what does Mia actually do? Because I'm like, she knows that this is fucked up. She knows this is a bad ask.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she texts Riley, and she's like, riley, we've got a problem. Like, the coordinator wants us to make a glass out of a bottle of wine.

[Brittany Luce]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Riley's like, I've seen those. They're cool. And she's like, I agree that they're cool, but, like, we don't have time to do this. And Riley's like, but you already agreed to it. So, like, we have to.

[Brittany Luce]

Riley.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Mia's like, you know what? I did. Because she is 25.

[Brittany Luce]

That is fair. That is fair. I may have made the same decision around that. Same. I'm 36 now, so I'm. I would be like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You'd be like, no.

[Brittany Luce]

I literally would have said that. Ship has sailed. Do you have any other ideas?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

I just would have been like, this. Not happening. But yes. Okay, so these. Yeah. She's 25.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, I see it. I see it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Riley's like, okay, so Win Willow is on stage for her keynote tomorrow. She'll be there for a whole 90 minutes. So we can do this thing in the green room while she's on stage.

[Brittany Luce]

Not in the green room. Do it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then we can just put it right into the basket. Like, it's so convenient.

[Brittany Luce]

No, y'all, that is not the safest place to do that. That's not the safe place to do that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. The way that they are supposed to do this is that you get like kitchen twine and you dunk, like you soak a lot of kitchen twine in isopropyl alcohol.

[Brittany Luce]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then you wrap it really tightly around a wine bottle. Like basically you tourniquet it and make sure it's even. And then you light the twine on fire.

[Brittany Luce]

No. Okay. Okay. So they are going to light. They're going to light something that has been soaked in alcohol on fire. Isopropyl alcohol, as it's sold in stores typically is going to give you 70 to 90% solution. Right. Okay. That is a higher concentration of alcohol. Like what's in, I don't know, like vodka or something like that. And you wouldn't set on fire a Molotov cocktail inside, you know what I'm saying? So what about this is making them think. But you know what, though? They're in the creative writing mfa. This is not an engineering school. And to remember that. But this just seems like I just. No, at no point for them though, did like the alcohol fire indoors. Glass connection.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Fine. Because the way it works is you light it on fire and then it's only on fire for like a couple seconds. And then you dunk it into really cold ice water. And that, that, the tension between like the heat and the water or something makes it slice.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then you can sand it down and then it's a glass and they're like, easy.

[Brittany Luce]

I love their optimism. I love their optimism.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I will say after watching several videos of people doing this, I do not recommend trying this. No.

[Brittany Luce]

I mean, I've seen lots of videos, people doing this, like on Tick Tock. And I went through a phase. I went through like a 46 minute phase where I was like, I'm gonna try this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I go through a 46 minute phase where I'm like, should I buy a rug tufting gun?

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, I go through that like twice a week. But yeah, the. That, that was what. I only had to go through that 46 minute phase one time before.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You were like, this is out of my league.

[Brittany Luce]

It's out of. It's. It's just above my pay grade. It's out of my league. Glass fire. Also, I don't even really. I don't drink at home. And I.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So like, where are you gonna get it?

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. But okay, so their youthful optimism made them be like, yeah, we're going to get it done.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. They're like, this will be fine. Mia's like, I'll get the wine bottle and the twine. You get the ice and, like, the alcohol. The next day is the keynote event. And Willow is, like, in her suit, right? She, like, takes her beta blocker. She's, like, ready to go on stage. The crowd is packed. They're, like, so excited to see her. It's like immediately a frenzy. Mia and Riley are like, this looks great. Wish we could watch it, but we have to go make a fucking glass.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They go back there. Riley soaks the twine in the alcohol. When it's soaked, he takes it out, he wraps it around the bottle. They set up their, like, cold water bowl filled with ice cubes. And he's, like, ready, and Mia's like, I'm ready. And then he lights the twine on fire.

[Brittany Luce]

I am sick to my stomach. Like, I'm so stressed. I just feel like some glass is gonna go into someone's eye. This just seems so bad. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It is a flame. And they're like, oh, my God, it's working. This is great.

[Brittany Luce]

Is it? Is it? Is it?

[Kelsey McKinney]

As he. He picks up, he, like, uses. He has, like, those gloves that keep your hands from being. Or whatever.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, good. They at least had. I was worried they were doing this bare handed. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, he's, like, using that to pick up the wine bottle and, like, move it to his left into the bowl. When he knocks over the bottle of alcohol and it begins spilling all over the desk. Desk. And as he's moving this bottle, it catches.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So now the entire desk is on fire.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The bottle is in the cold water. So, like, that part went well. But the good desk is literally on fire.

[Brittany Luce]

Why did they not close the bottle of alcohol? I'm so stressed. Okay, so the table's on fire. And then what, in a moment of.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Panic, are you fight flight freezer fawn.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay, if it's a moment of panic like that, if something's on fire, I immediately go to, like, straight up fire safety. I'm taking a coat, a jacket, couch cushion, whatever, and you have to smother it. That's like the first thing that you. That you do is I'm call. I'm smothering it and I'm calling the department. Yeah, I'm fighting.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're gonna fight the fire.

[Brittany Luce]

I'm gonna fight the fire.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia freezes. She's going, oh, oh. Like, really quietly. And Riley is like, this is bad. Riley is like, but there's a fire extinguisher literally in the hallway. So I'm gonna Go get it. I'm gonna come back. We'll put it out. This is fine.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. I mean, you know, Riley was set up to be the enemy in this story. I just want to say he's done a couple of things that are annoying, but he is good in a crisis. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Riley goes to find the fire extinguisher. Mia's waiting, waiting. He's not back yet. She's like. Like, why is he not back yet? How much time has passed? Has it been 30 seconds? Has it been 15 years? It could be any amount of time.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's looking at the fire, and she's looking at the fire alarm. Pull handle.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, no. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But she knows Willow is on stage.

[Brittany Luce]

So she pulls that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The theater is packed. What do you do?

[Brittany Luce]

I'm gonna give it. I. I would do a 15 count. I count to 15. If he's not back, I'm pulling the alarm. Because at that point, it's a safety thing, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I love this plan. Very reasonable. Calm in a crisis. Mia is not calm in a crisis. She has no idea how long Riley has been gone. So she sees that handle, she reaches over, she pulls it.

[Brittany Luce]

Mia. But, you know, I mean, I will say. I mean, she's kind of face. I'd say fire is, like, so elemental to being like life and death for a human.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

That I feel like she just responded the way that any animal would.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. The alarm immediately begins to blare. They can, like, hear on stage whoever is in conversation with Willow. Be, like, evacuate the premises. Like, we don't know what's going on. So everyone's evacuating. As the alarm starts to blare, Riley returns with the fire extinguisher. He's like, why the fuck would you pull that? He points the extinguisher at the fire and puts it out Right as he does this. As the fire is gone, the sprinklers go off in this room.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, I forgot sprinklers.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she is soaked again.

[Brittany Luce]

Again. Oh, my God. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Luckily, the sprinklers did not go off in the main hall, so, like, everyone else didn't get wet.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they evacuated, and they just, like, bring everyone else back in.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. Like a fire drill. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like a fire truck.

[Brittany Luce]

And the fire alarm goes off, and then you go down there like it's fine.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. You bond a little. You come back.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. It wakes people up because there's some excitement, some flavor. And also, Willow's a pro, obviously. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Willow's a pro. She's taken her Beta blockers. She's fine. She goes back on stage, they finish this address. It's like everyone loves it.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, great. I was so worried that everybody in there got wet. I was about to freak out. But okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

While she's on stage, Riley and Mia look at their, like, wine bottle that's in this, like, you know, cold water bath. And it has split perfectly and they're like.

[Brittany Luce]

At least they're like that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they, like, sand the edge, they add the sticker, they put it into the, like, care box. It looks kind of nice.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh. But you know what, though? That lady from the. From the festival, because she that up.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Why would you ever, ever, ever, ever, ever tell people to do some shit like that? This is her fault. Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Also, like two 25 year olds who you know are gonna do it.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, exactly like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm like, like, damn. Okay, yeah, but fuck that lady. That's her fucking fault. But go ahead.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Willow comes off stage, she comes back, she's like, thank you both so much for your help this week. Like, you were a doll.

[Brittany Luce]

She didn't notice this whole desk that had gone up in the flames with all of. Probably all sorts of smoke and char marks all over the walls.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, thank you so much. Like, don't worry about Ferret, Mia. Like, I know that, like, she darts around. I don't think that that's either of your faults, and I don't think it should have been your problem to begin with. And they're both like, thank you.

[Brittany Luce]

Thank you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then she's like, what the happened in here?

[Brittany Luce]

So what did they say?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they're like, well, the thing is, we were trying to make you this thing. And so they show it to her and she picks it up and she's like, oh, my God, this is cool. Is this like a wine glass that's like made out of a wine bottle? She's like, I've never seen this before.

[Brittany Luce]

What? What does she mean she's. What does she mean she never seen.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She does not collect those. It was a bad intel.

[Brittany Luce]

What the. Who? Oh, my God. So. So they got that information from this person and. And she got it from God knows where. Probably Wikipedia. Damn. So they went through all this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Risk their lives and the lives of everybody else in that building for some that this woman has never even seen before and don't know anything about.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my fucking God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Me and Riley are like, oh, my fucking God.

[Brittany Luce]

It's just so fucking wild. Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're like, this sucks. Whatever. Willow seems happy with her experience. Like, she was like, thank you so much. Like, I like this thing. It's cool. And they were like, I hope that you're just saying that because, you know that we lit this room on fire for it.

[Brittany Luce]

That's very gracious of her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We are at the end. Whose side are you on? How do you feel? Well, okay.

[Brittany Luce]

Willow, I now feel neutral on. I don't like this ferret situation again. I think it just shows a lack of personal boundaries to bring your exotic pets and also not have them, like, collared or leashed in some sort of way. So I, like. I said I don't like that about Willow. I just. I appreciate her graciousness and her. At least she has a shred of self awareness and that she understands that, like, you know, they probably shouldn't have been in charge of that anyway. But I'm like, girl, you should never have made that anybody else's responsibility. So that's his own thing. So I'm neutral on Willow. In the end, I am still anti ferret. I'm still anti ferret. And that has not changed. Mia person. Mia person. Mia. I. I think she did the best sometimes with what she could, but I actually have to say that, like, I don't know. I know Riley's supposed to be this whole, like, enemy kind of guy, but ultimately, like, I don't know, like, maybe you should just be his friend. Like, he seems like he's kind of a nice person. He's tried to work with you on this when you were being kind of weird about it. Like, you're sending him emails, trying to figure out, like, a very complex situation.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Cute.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, I was gonna say he's cute. He has a tongue ring. There's a lot of, like, pluses, I feel like, with Riley. And I feel like, like, since this is like, you know, their last year, their last book festival, they spent some time together. They were kind of, like, solving problems together. I don't know. To me, I'm like, I'm. Maybe I'm on team. Like, maybe Mia should just hook up with Riley and call it a day. You know what I mean? That's my. That's my opinion. So overall. But yeah, like I said, I think that I'm still anti ferret. I know there's gonna be people who are like, I love animals. Like, you're cruel. You know what? This is the thing. It's not the ferret's fault.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're right.

[Brittany Luce]

Willow's fault. Willow is The. It's not even the kids. The kids, they're gonna do whatever their mom says.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Also, the coordinator of this.

[Brittany Luce]

That's the. That's. Now that. That's. That person's a villain for being like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Whatever Willow wants, Willow gets.

[Brittany Luce]

Exactly. No, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That is a professional. You can tell her. No. Do you want the final updates that I have?

[Brittany Luce]

Wait, there's more?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, there's more?

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The final updates I have are one. When Willow left, she bought windshield wipers for Clifford. Like, she, like, sent money to the department, was like, please fix this fucking car.

[Brittany Luce]

That is extremely classy. Okay. Okay. That's classy. I. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Willow, Mia and Riley graduated. They fell out of touch, but the literary world is small. And so of course she knew when he published a novel before her and it got good reviews and people read it and she envious and she was mad. Mia at her enemy succeeding. If you were her in that situation, would you talk at parties?

[Brittany Luce]

No. I think in this situation I'm going to give Mia some tough. Some tough love. As a person who's been in therapy for 12 years and it's done a lot of good in my life. I think that Mia is projecting on to Riley. And I think that Mia could do well with getting some good friends who can, like, push back on her on that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

And also I think maybe getting a therapist, if she doesn't have one yet, I think would be a really good one. Because I just feel like Riley is kind of like writing his little stories and getting stuff published and finding the fire extinguisher and knowing the tea on Clifford, the car. But I just worry that Mia is like, stressing herself out over nothing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I have something else to tell you.

[Brittany Luce]

Good.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she decides I'm not going to shit talk this guy at parties. Like, maybe I was a little dramatic, right? I had an enemy for a period of time, but, like, we worked really well together in the end. And, like, I wish him nothing but the best, but I am secretly envious of him. Right. She was at a party pretty recently. Somebody brings him up and she's like, oh, my God, he was in my MFA program. And this girl is like, oh, do you like him? And Mia's like, well, I found him a little annoying, but I don't, like, seriously dislike him. And this girl is like, oh, my God, I hooked up with him last summer. And like, it was weird. And Mia's like, say more. And this girl is like, I don't know. The sex was good, actually, but he had this ferret in his room that was so loud and smelly.

[Brittany Luce]

Shut the fuck up. Are you fucking serious? I never even suspected him. I just figured the ferret was in the library basement. Wait, what happened?

[Kelsey McKinney]

He found the ferret in the bathroom of a different floor, like 10 minutes after the call went out on the. On the like checks. And he decided to keep it in the hopes that Willow would offer, like, a cash reward. But then Willow didn't care about the ferret, and so she didn't offer a cash reward. And by that time, Riley was stuck with the ferret.

[Brittany Luce]

What? Oh, Riley. I was rooting for you. I was rooting for you. You have won me over. But that is like, nasty work. A cash prize. Don't you own a car? Do you have no shame? That is terrible.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mia's like, I was right all along. He was the villain.

[Brittany Luce]

Wow. Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Britney, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you.

[Brittany Luce]

It was a delight to be here. I just. I can't believe I didn't see that coming. I can't believe I didn't see that coming. I'm stunned. But yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow.

[Brittany Luce]

There you go. I mean, I guess they say what? Keep your friends close and your enemies.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Closer and your ferrets far. This podcast is produced by Alex Sujang Laughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman. Justin Ellis is Defector's project's editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defectors business guys. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. J. Tolviera is our associate producer. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at Normal Gossip Store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Jasper Wang, Katherine Hsu, Patrick Redford, Israel Daramola, Ray Ratto, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna and Luis Paez Pumar for your help on this season and thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company and Normal Gossip is a proud member of radiotopia. I'm Kelsey McKinney and please remember you did not hear this from me. Radiotopia from prx.