Romancing the Stoned with Jenée Desmond-Harris

Summary

Podcast Title: Normal Gossip
Episode: Romancing the Stoned with Jenée Desmond-Harris
Release Date: June 5, 2024

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Normal Gossip, host Kelsey McKinney welcomes Janae Desmond-Harris, Slate's renowned Dear Prudence advice columnist. With a shared history and a deep understanding of each other's professional journeys, Kelsey and Janae delve into the nuanced world of gossip, both in personal relationships and in the realm of advice-driven podcasts.

---

The Dynamics of Gossip in Personal and Professional Life

Janae Desmond-Harris opens the conversation by distinguishing between two primary types of gossip: breaking news and opinion/analysis. She emphasizes her preference for the latter, which aligns closely with her work on Dear Prudence.

Janae Desmond-Harris [02:44]: "I really love the opinion and analysis gossip."

This perspective not only shapes her approach to writing but also influences her personal life, particularly her marriage. Both Janae and Kelsey, being Geminis, find joy in reflecting and discussing various topics, maintaining a dedicated communication strategy to maximize their interactions.

Janae Desmond-Harris [03:33]: "We have a thorough critique. That's so smart."

They utilize a Google Doc to list topics for discussion, ensuring that their conversations are meaningful and focused, rather than repetitive or superficial.

---

Gossip Story: The Overstepping Manicurist

One of the standout segments of the episode revolves around a reader-submitted story that Janae shares. This narrative centers on Kelsey's friend, who experiences a series of boundary-pushing actions from a "celebrity adjacent" manicurist.

Initially, the arrangement seems mutually beneficial. The manicurist provides exceptional nail services, which boosts the friend's professional image. However, things take a turn when the manicurist requests to stay in the friend's guest house—a request that evolves from a one-time favor into a prolonged and intrusive stay.

Janae Desmond-Harris [07:02]: "A room, like, for sleeping or. A room for sleeping. Okay."

As days pass, the manicurist's demands escalate, leading to significant inconveniences such as an overflowing toilet and incessant requests for additional linens and towels. This situation forces the friend to establish firm boundaries, highlighting the importance of maintaining personal space even in seemingly friendly professional relationships.

Kelsey McKinney [09:16]: "This is a crazy way to behave."

The discussion evolves into a broader conversation about the art of setting boundaries and recognizing red flags in relationships, both personal and professional.

---

Improvised Gossip Story: Uma's Awkward Date with the Fedora Man

Transitioning from real-life gossip to an improvised narrative, Kelsey introduces a fictional character named Uma, embarking on a disastrous date with a man humorously dubbed the "Fedora Man." This segment showcases the comedic potential of gossip through a scripted yet relatable scenario.

The Date Begins Awkwardly

Uma meticulously prepares for her date, only to encounter immediate red flags when the Fedora Man arrives late and exhibits unsettling behavior. Their interactions are punctuated by a series of mishaps, including unexpected interruptions from fire alarms and Uma's own state of inebriation from edibles.

Kelsey McKinney [16:07]: "Fedora guy has one cocktail. He does really loosen up."

As the evening progresses, Uma grapples with the unfolding chaos, from miscommunication about fire alarms to the realization that her efforts to impress are backfiring.

Climactic Misadventures

The date takes a wild turn when a real fire breaks out, and despite Uma's misguided attempts to assist, the situation spirals out of control. Her interactions with firefighters, compounded by her impaired judgment, lead to a series of comedic yet cringe-worthy moments.

Kelsey McKinney [42:58]: "Uma's like, I don't have time for that because I promised on the phone with the emergency responders that I would help the firemen find this apartment."

This fictional tale serves as a humorous exploration of dating disasters, emphasizing themes of miscommunication, boundary-setting, and the unpredictable nature of first impressions.

Resolution and Reflections

By the episode's end, Uma's misadventures culminate in a bittersweet conclusion where she finally connects with the Fedora Man, albeit under less-than-ideal circumstances. Janae reflects on Uma's journey, highlighting the importance of authenticity and self-respect in navigating personal relationships.

Janae Desmond-Harris [61:55]: "I think it all goes to show that she followed her heart. She did exactly what she wanted to do in each moment."

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Insights and Takeaways

Throughout the episode, both Kelsey and Janae offer insightful commentary on the nature of gossip and its impact on both personal and professional spheres. They stress the significance of:

• Authenticity in Communication: Ensuring that conversations are genuine and not merely surface-level.

• Boundary-Setting: Recognizing when to establish limits to protect personal space and well-being.

• Humor in Adversity: Finding comedic relief in awkward or challenging situations.

Janae's reflections on Uma's story underscore the delicate balance between following one's desires and maintaining self-respect, a lesson applicable to both listeners' personal lives and professional endeavors.

---

Conclusion

"Romancing the Stoned with Jenée Desmond-Harris" is a blend of real-world advice and creative storytelling, offering listeners a rich tapestry of humor, insights, and relatable scenarios. By intertwining personal anecdotes with fictional narratives, Normal Gossip continues to deliver its signature blend of juicy, funny, and thought-provoking content, ensuring that even those who haven't listened before can find value and entertainment in every episode.

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Notable Quotes:

• Janae Desmond-Harris [03:33]: "We have a thorough critique. That's so smart."

• Kelsey McKinney [09:16]: "This is a crazy way to behave."

• Janae Desmond-Harris [61:55]: "I think it all goes to show that she followed her heart. She did exactly what she wanted to do in each moment."

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Timestamp Highlights:

• [02:44]: Discussion on types of gossip.

• [07:02]: Manicurist's initial request.

• [09:16]: Setting boundaries.

• [16:07]: Introduction of Fedora Man.

• [42:58]: Uma's commitment during the fire.

• [61:55]: Reflection on Uma's authenticity.

---

Produced by Alex Soojong Laughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman. Show art by Tara Jacoby.

Transcript

[Alex Soojong Laughlin]

Hey there, it's Alex. You may have heard at the end of our episodes, the phrase Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia, but maybe you don't know what that means. The media industry is kind of garbage right now, and it is harder than ever for independent creatives to own their own work, get paid for their work, and to make a living off of their work. Radiotopia is trying to make that possible for more independent creators. They're really great partners for us, and we have been so happy to work with them. Every year, Radiotopia does a fundraising drive, and right now we have a goal of reaching 20, 24 donors, and maybe one of them is you. Your donations in the fall fundraiser go into marketing, ad sales, technology, and it also makes it possible to bring on new shows in the future. So maybe your next favorite podcast is just around the corner. If you are a Normal Gossip or Defector subscriber, that is different. If you donate during the fall fundraiser, you'll get a link to a curated list of all Radiotopia producers favorite things. As a token of thanks, I included something in there. You will never guess what it is. If you're listening to this episode right now, you are already supporting the work of Normal Gossip, Defector Media, and Radiotopia. But if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia Fall FundRaiser, visit Radiotopia FM, donate to learn more, and add your name to the list of awesome listeners who support independent podcasts. Thanks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am fucking thrilled to have with me today Janae Desmond Harris. Janae is Slate's Dear Prudence advice columnist. She answers letters about relationships, work, family, and life in general in a weekly column and an accompanying podcast. Janae and I also work together very early in my career, so I am so excited to have her here. Janae, welcome.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Thank you for having me. I'm so, so, so excited to be here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God, I'm so excited that you're here. We have, like, a nice, long history together at this point.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Well, I was going to say we go way back to many years and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Many jobs ago, back when I was a wee child.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

But you know what? I remember I loved gossiping with you even back then.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you want to talk a little bit about, like, how gossip plays into your podcast?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think there are two kinds of gossip. So you know how in journalism there's the breaking news, the hard news, and then there's the opinion and analysis?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I think when most people think about gossip, they're thinking about the breaking news.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Someone's getting divorced, someone's cheating, someone had a bbl. These people are making up. It's a secret. That's only so much of that kind. Right. I don't get a ton of really, really juicy, dramatic gossip anymore.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's true. Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So I really love the opinion and analysis gossip.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And so that's the kind of gossip I'm usually doing with my friends if we don't have anything super big and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Explosive, if there's no breaking news.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's a slow news day.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Exactly. Yeah. But I could always do an op Ed. I'm always willing to do a gossip op Ed anytime.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you want to talk a little bit or like. Also, I'm just curious how gossip functions within your marriage. You've been married. It's almost your anniversary. It was just your anniversary.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yes, I've been married for seven years. Thank you. Gossip is huge. I don't know how much you believe in astrological signs, but my husband and I are both Geminis.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So we're both just people who can just be entertained just by reflecting on stuff, talking about stuff, being a little bit petty about stuff.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I've talked a lot about how we keep a list of things to discuss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

That we want to get the other person's opinion on.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Where do you keep the list?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

A Google Doc.

[Kelsey McKinney]

A Google Doc. Okay, great.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

A Google Doc works well. We start it with a text.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So we'll press these.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

We'll say add. And that means add to the list for discussion. Colon. And sometimes, honestly, a lot of times it's just somebody's tweet, you know, she's added again, put that on the list or add. Do you think Kamala Harris is happy right now?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. I mean, it's really.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

It could be anything like that. Right. And if we get news from a friend, we'll put it on their ad.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So and so broke up with whoever. Can you believe it?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

We started this practice when we worked from a one bedroom apartment together. And we could not just interrupt each other all day.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And it ended up being helpful. Once we had a kid, had less time to talk. And so when we do get time to go for a walk or sit and hang out, we'll pull up the list and like, that's so smart. Yeah. Because it makes. It makes the most of your talking time. Because instead of saying, how was your day? It was fine. I got some work done. Right. Did you see what Kelsey had on Instagram?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Something I really admire about Geminis, in my experience is that, though I don't think you're, like, the biggest grudge holders in the of the zodiac signs, you're very good at being like, we could have a grudge on this person. Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's like the list of people who, like, could be promoted to enemy at any minute. Geminis always have them. Like, they're like, these are all the people that we could hate.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Definitely.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And I'm like, I forgot that person existed entirely.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah. These are people who, you know, we have a thorough critique.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. We have some opinions about them. Did you bring a gossip for me?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I did. So I have a friend who has had some great career success lately.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. Congratulations.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She's in the Kelsey McKinney type of zone right now, you know. Oh, by the way, congratulations on your book.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Thank you. That's so nice.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So she's taken sort of author photo type things. She's been on tv, she's had events, and she's really thriving. And she, as a result, needed a really great manicurist.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So she ended up going to this woman who is kind of celebrity adjacent. Ooh. She found her on Instagram.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love that.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Where the woman has a really big following. And, I mean, she's done nails for people who. They're not Serena Williams, they're not Taylor Swift, they're not Beyonce. But you would be impressed if you saw whose nails she's done, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So she was in my friend's city, and my friend was lucky enough to get an appointment with her. So my friend had a good experience. Beautiful nails. And she had a really good rapport with this woman.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, great.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So about a month later, she gets a text from this woman asking, do you know of anyone who might have a room for me to stay in when I come to your city?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. A room, like, for sleeping or. A room for sleeping. Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

For sleeping. And that's a little weird to me because she's supposed to be really fancy and celebrity adjacent, and I would think she could afford a hotel, but you never know what's going on in people's bank accounts. Yes. And what obligations they have. So my friend is super generous, and she was. She was like, oh, absolutely. You can stay in our guest house. She has a little ADU or whatever that no one was using at the time.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, I'm already. I'm like, I can't imagine having spent, I assume, like, what, one hour, two hours max with someone doing. Doing your nails and then being like, yes, live in my house.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, that's a level of intimacy that I'm like, I don't think we're there yet, babe.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

But my friend is a big extrovert and a real people person, okay? And one thing about her, she really connects with people easily and she sees the best in everyone.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, could not be me.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Couldn't be me. So nail artist moves in. She stays for three days, no problem. She also allows my friend to sneak into the schedule to get her nails done while she's in town.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Well, I mean, that does feel like the least she could do.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Feels like it. Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're staying in her house, but my.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Friend still has to pay. Oh, it's not cheap, is.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wait, this woman paying to stay in her house?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

No, no, no. So it's like what she gave her in return was an appointment, not a free appointment.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. What I believe in is a bartering system. And the thing is, when you're bartering for goods, the goods need to be of equal value. So, like, the appointment is not worth, I'm assuming, more than one night.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

In someone else's home.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right. But anyway, like I said, my friend has had some success and she could afford it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And whatever you said that she liked her nails the first time she went, she loved her nails. Okay? So it kind of makes sense.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So a couple months later, she gets a text that says, can I come stay in your guest house again? And can my partner come? And my friend is like, she has a little bit of a feeling that this is getting to be kind of a lot, but okay, no problem. Once again, she's placed on the schedule. Once again, she gets her nails done, but due to some over scheduling issues, she's at the shop for seven hours.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Seven hours.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She's actually running late for some things she has to do, so she ends up leaving.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, I bet she is, because she was at the nail salon for seven hours. Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Increasingly frustrated the whole time. And the woman's not particularly apologetic. It's just kind of like, you should still be grateful that you got on my schedule.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is a crazy way to behave.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right? Exactly. So she leaves with wet nails. They end up getting smudged, but, you know, shit happens. It's wet nails. It's fine. So at this point, the nail artist asks if she can stay a few extra days.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. At this point, I'm like, it's called a boundary, and I'm gonna need you to learn about one and then erect one. Because I'm like, you are no longer benefiting from this relationship with someone who is not your friend. Right. Like, from everything you've said, it's not like. It's like, oh, she goes to work all day and then she comes back and we, like, drink wine on the porch and gab, and we're developing a, like, intimate, emotional friendship. It's like, no, this is your nail artist.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And the woman's partner was there with her. She was having a getaway with her partner.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right? Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So my friend says, okay, you can say a few.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And then it becomes a few more days until it has turned into two weeks. What? She's been there for two weeks?

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, no, no, no.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

My friend is still thinking, well, no one was using the guest house anyway. It's not that big of a deal. But then she starts getting these somewhat demanding texts such as, we need extra towels, bitch.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is not a hotel.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She was like. She was treating me like it was a hotel and was really confusing. Please restock the toilet paper. Could I please have clean sheets today? Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. No.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah. But guess who brought the housekeeping part and refreshed everything?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

My very nice friend. She brings them all with her messed up nails.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm like, I love. I love you. Do not do this for everyone. Right? Like, this is a way to behave for people who you love. Right?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

This is for your mom.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Your mom. And not that many other people.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Finally, it's the last day of the stay, and my friend goes back there to say goodbye. And the nail artist casually mentions the toilet is backed up. But it's beyond backed up. It's actually overflowing. It's a massive, disgusting mess. And it has. It has stunk up the entire guest house.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Part of the reason. Part of the reason they needed so many towels was that the towels were being used to absorb the overflowing toilet. Yeah. On the floor. Oh, my God. At this point, the nail artist shares that it's been that way for the past eight days.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You've been living in a house with an overflowing toilet for eight days?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

They've been going across the street to Dunkin Donuts to use the bathroom.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. Wait, this also. Okay, hold on. Doing a little bit of math real quick in my head, which I'm famously bad at. This also means that when she asked to stay for a Few extra days. The toilet was already clogged.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah. Yeah. So either maybe she didn't want to, she was avoiding the confrontation and thought it would resolve, or it was just really working for her. She was. She was really fine with the Dunkin Donuts walk every morning.

[Kelsey McKinney]

A thing about plumbing is that it doesn't really magically resolve. Like, it's not. It's not one of those things that it's just like, oh, this problem is fixed now. It's like, no, you have to hire a guy.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So my friend finds a new nail artist. She doesn't hear anything from this woman. She figures she never will.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God, there's more. Okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Later, she reaches out to try to book the guest house again.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So my friend reaches out to me and she goes, what should I say? I said, obviously you have to say no. Obviously. And she pulled herself together to say no. I asked her, how did you explain it? And she said, I told her the toilet was still clogged.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Honestly, I would have been afraid to tell her that because apparently this woman is fine.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She was probably like, I don't mind.

[Kelsey McKinney]

With a clogged toilet. Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Like, there's plenty of retail establishments.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Don't worry.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There's a Dunkin Donuts that I could go to. I'll be right there. Like, oh, my God, Janae, thank you for this gossip. I loved it. Do you want to hear the gossip that I have for you?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Absolutely.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Have you ever taken any kind of, like, drug or alcohol that has made you all woozy during an important time?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Can you tell me about it?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I was at my husband's house for Christmas. I think it was either right before or right after we were married. And actually my mom came with me, and it was just stressful having the in laws meet each other.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And my mom had just gotten into eating an edible now and then, and so I decided to have one, too. And I had just a little too much. And all through Christmas, I just. I couldn't stop laughing. And I just felt not okay in a weird way. And I ended up telling everyone I just had a really, really bad headache and kind of going into the corner because I didn't. I also was self conscious about how I was behaving. I don't think it was bad. But anyway, I felt really, really woozy and it made me self conscious and it made me more stressed than I would have been if I was just dealing with typical family stress.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think, unfortunately, you're really going to identify with this story today. Okay, so our friend of her friend, we're going to call her Uma.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

When we meet her today, she's like primping for a date, right? She's like taking an everything shower. It's like hair, body, face, right? Like the whole thing. She is supposed to meet her date at 9pm that's late.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Is it late?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Well, that's. That's my question for you, is how do you feel about this time for a date?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

It feels really late to me. I'm wondering if it's reflecting a washed lifestyle on my part. But I would think normal for dinner or drinks would be like more seven or eight.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So this is only drinks. And it is, like, kind of clear what the winking, like, intention of the 9pm meeting time is, right?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Have a drink when I go home.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay. And she was on board with that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's on board with that because this man is hot, okay? And he's like giving book talk. Hot, like, written by a woman man, right? So it's like tall, lots of hair, like, look strong enough to hoist you. And so, you know, like giant hands, like veins on the forearm. Right? Like that whole thing.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay, so romance novel cover.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mm, yes. Do you think that this is, like, is this a reason to go on a 9pm date? You're like, he's hot as shit.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Okay. She goes to the bar, he's there. She's like, immediately a little nervous because he seems, like, very aloof, like, unfocused. And she's like, maybe he doesn't like me. Right? Like, maybe I'm like, too short. Right? Maybe there's some kind of problem. What do you.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Or maybe he's nervous because he likes you so much.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you do here?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

See how you feel after the first drink. See if you're both more calm. That's what alcohol is for, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. She's like, we'll order our drinks. She's like. And then I'm gonna ask him, like, one of those questions that is like, just to, like, get to know you. Like, insane. Either or. Okay, so like, the one I'm gonna use as an example here is one that was circulating on Twitter recently, which is, would you rather have every single drink that you consume for the rest of your life, have one drop of pee in it, or wear a fedora every day.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

What part of Twitter are you on?

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you think?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

The pee? Because I think it would totally get, like, watered down, and I would just try to forget about it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

An interesting thing that I have noticed is that there is kind of a gender divide in this. In that, like many women I have asked this question to and that I have seen respond to it are like, one drop of pee. Like, that's fine. It's sterile. Who knows? I'll forget about it. This man on this date is like, fedora.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Hmm.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so this girl is like, I'm no longer referring to this man in my head as, like, booktok man. I am now referring to him as fedora man.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. So fedora guy has one cocktail. He does really loosen up. He starts, like, looking at her more. They're engaging.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I thought he would.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, you were so right. And she's like, do you want to go back to my place? And he's like, yes. So they both drive their cars. Like, he follows her. They get there, he has to duck through the doorway. And she's like, I'm in love with him. Right? Like, he's so tall. He's so tall.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're like, oh, well, like, watch a movie on the couch, right? Ostensibly, we're going to watch a movie on the couch. And so they, like, put on a movie. They're starting to kiss. When he asks her one of the, like, top five most upsetting questions you can be asked while making out, which is, what is that smell?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I was. You know what? That's the first thing that popped into my head.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Really?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Why?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Because I was just watching tiktoks about this is probably a TikTok I'm on how to tell someone they stink in, like, an intimate situation. And people were doing different scripts for it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Uma immediately is panicking because she's like, what is that smell? Is like, do I smell right? She's like, I don't smell right. She's like, sniffing.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She did her everything shower.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She did her everything shower. She's like, I don't smell anything. Like, what smell? And he's, like, sniffing. And he's like, it smells like smoke. And then the fire alarms go off.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, boy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Uma is like, God damn it. Like, I'm being blocked by fire alarms. Like, that is not fair. This man does not say a lot. He, like, pulls on his shoes. He's like, we should go outside. Like, the fire alarms are going off. And she's like, yeah, okay. Smart, I guess. They go outside, and it's like the fire alarms are not stopping. Right. Like, it's not one of those things where, like, you go outside and you wait three minutes, the fire alarms go off, and you get to come back in. So he's like, I'm gonna go home. Like, I don't know how long this is gonna take, but, like, would love to see you again. And then he kisses her on the cheek. What do you make of the cheek kiss?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I make more of the leaving than the cheek kiss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. Why?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

The cheek kiss, in combination with the leaving tells me that he is not as enthusiastic about Uma as she is about him. He could take it or leave it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Uma is like, you know what? Would I want to stand outside someone else's apartment for, like, God knows how long? No, that's.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah, but if they were really into each other, they would be, like, maybe cuddling, holding hands.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So she's like, I understand why he would leave, but also, my feelings are a little hurt. Yeah, right. But she's, like, outside, she can't go back in her apartment. She's awake. And also, like, all of her neighbors are also outside because there's a fire alarm drill. The firemen show up, and the firemen are hot. Uma's like, you know what? Great, now there's hot firemen here. Whatever. And the firemen are, like, very busy, and so they. There's, like, lots to watch. It's very entertaining. Has this ever happened to you? Have you ever had to go, like, outside for a nighttime fire drill?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

All the time. Yeah. I feel like it happened all the time.

[Kelsey McKinney]

All the time.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Did you live in the dorms in college?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like we were always out there, actually. What? Yeah. Didn't the door. Didn't the fire alarms go off every time someone, like, ran a hot shower? I feel like it was very common. I remember distinctly being outside in the middle of the night in college a couple of times.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I do remember a couple of times being outside, but I wouldn't say it was very common.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Also, once, one of my most embarrassing stories from when so pre vox when I was in my lawyer days and I worked.

[Kelsey McKinney]

When you were a girl boss? Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I worked at a big firm downtown D.C. in a big building, and I worked for this one partner who sort of was the bane of my existence, you know, Fantastic. He was always giving me more and more assignments, and often I didn't totally know what he was talking about. He didn't explain them well.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Great.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And just really, really stressed me out. So I was on my way to lunch one day and I saw him coming. And I knew that if I kept on the path I was on, we were going to end up in the elevator together. And I knew that if that happened, he would give me an assignment in the elevator.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And I wouldn't have time to write it down.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then you would be lost.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Lead to chaos.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So I made a last minute decision just to take a quick turn and go down a stairwell instead.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, no.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Without noticing, that was the stairwell. That was an emergency exit.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, no.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So the fire alarms went off in the whole 14th floor building. And Kelsey, the fire trucks came. Like, I heard. I just kept going. No, I went to Caribou Coffee.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, you were like, goodbye. Goodbye to the mess I created.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And I just heard. I said, oh, my God, I hear fire engines. And this is because of me. So they came to the law firm. Everyone had to go outside, and I just stayed. I think I went to Caribbean Coffee and then I went to, like, a sandwich place and I said, let me just wait this out. Finally, after it was all over, I walked back inside, like, went to my desk with my sandwich, and I thought I'd gotten away with it. And the fireman came to my door. He was like, I understand you pulled the alarm. And I had to tell him it was a mistake anyway.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And you were like, did I do that?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah, I was trying to escape a partner, if that means anything to you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, so they're outside. Nighttime fire drill. She has not hidden away at a sandwich spot. She's like, yabbing to everyone and she's, like, also feeling a lot of feelings about having lost this fedora guy and him, like, not saying goodbye to Brie Lee and not hanging out, whatever. This is like a big apartment complex. There are, like, a couple of buildings. They're right next to each other. They have, like, very poor markings. Like, Uma is always joking that if an Uber dropped her off here for a booty call, she would be like, no, take me home. Like, I'm never gonna find the apartment. I'm trying to.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's, like, out there for hours, and she's kind of like, yeah, of course we are these buildings for hours. Yes, for hours. They are.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

They didn't go anywhere. They just stayed on the street. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're just out there on the street gapping. It's like, the weather is nice and also it's like, all your neighbors are there, and when you live in a big building, you know, there's like, kind of a camaraderie of, like, drama that's always going on. Right? So they're like, are you still having mail issues? Like, does the landlord ever email you back? Right there, like, comparing notes?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What everyone is really gabbing about, though, is the fact that there are supposed to be three laundry rooms in this apartment complex, and two of them have been out of commission for months, which means that there's only one laundry room. And it's, like, not in Uma's building. And the laundry is heavy, and you have to carry it, like, this whole long way. Right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Miserable.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So everyone has a shared beef, which means that this is, like, a fun time. The firefighters are doing their shit, and everyone's like, we hate our landlord. Right? They're doing this. When her best friend in the complex. We're going to call her Tatiana, shows up. And Tatiana is like, oh, my God, is Booktok guy here? And Uma is like, okay, about that. We're calling him fedora guy now. And Tatiana is like, he wore a fedora to the date. And Uma's like, no, no, no, no, no. So she, like, explains all of this to Tatiana, and Tatiana is like, well, is he here? And Uma's like, no, he, like, left. And Tatiana's like, well, what, did you have a good time? And Uma's like, no, the fire alarm, like, ruined my life. Tatiana's like, I'm so sorry. She's like, that sucks. Like, I know you were excited to meet him. And then she's like, do you have any idea, like, what's going on here? Like, are we ever gonna get to go back into our apartment?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, someone burn some toast? She's like, I have an early. Exactly. She's like, what are we doing here? So your Uma, you want to know what's going on? How do you find out what's going on?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Well, given what I know about Uma, she seems like she's a little bit on the prowl. And you mentioned she thought the firefighters are really attractive.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I feel like she's ovulating. I think she's just. I can. I'm getting that energy from her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You gotta be careful.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She really wants to connect with a man. So putting myself in Uma's shoes, I probably go fluff my hair a little bit, put on a little lip gloss, and go over to one of the firefighters and just say, hey, I would love to know. Could you Give me any details on what's happening here. And she'll either find out the facts or she'll form another connection that could replace Fedora guy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. This is entirely Uma's move. She's like, here I go over to the firefighters. Like, good posture. Make yourself look cute. Make your voice higher. Right? Like, all. All the works. So she goes over there. They have directed her to the one, like, lady firefighter, okay? So she's like, hello, ma'am. Like, I'm so sorry to bother you, but, like, what is happening here? And the lady firefighter is like, oh, man. It's, like, really bad, actually. Like, two apartments are basically gutted.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Uma is like, oh, my God, that's awful. Like, do you know why? And the lady firefighter is like, yeah, it's like, we think it's a water heater problem, but we, like, won't know for sure for a couple weeks.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Uma's like, is everybody okay? And the firefighter's like, yeah, yeah, everyone's fine. Like, you don't need to worry about that. And Uma's like, cool. Great. Also, how long do you think this is gonna take? Like, we would like to go back to our apartments, right? And the lady firefighter is like, we're actually like, you should be back in the next 15 minutes. And she's like, great.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And I would also be wondering if you have this landlord who's not great and not keeping up with the laundry rooms and not keeping up with some of the water heaters. I would be wondering, is my water heater next?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. What do you do? Like, you finally get the all clear to go back to your apartment. What is your move here?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Putting myself again in Uma's shoes. I call. I text fedora guy and say. I text him and say, finally got let back into the apartment, but apparently there's some mysterious water heater issue that caused two apartments to totally burn down. I have no idea what the status of my water heater is. I don't trust that my landlord has kept up with it. I don't want to be next. Could I come to your house for safety?

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is called having game. Like, what you're doing. That is game. That is very good work. This is not what Uma does. Uma goes to her own bed, and she goog Google's water heater fire. And she's like, reading all these articles. She writes an email to her landlord, and she's like, please fix this. And then she falls asleep.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because it's late.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She's probably really tired.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And she's like, I've had a bad evening. Like, double loss. People lost their apartments in this terrible fire. And also, I lost my hookup with Fedora guy, which is also hard. How do you get this guy to go out with you again?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I mean, I think the best idea would be to kind of sit back and wait because she's already gotten two negative vibes from him. One was the first moment where she felt like he was distracted and maybe not been into her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

The second was when he decided he couldn't stand outside for more than five minutes and just would pass on the hookup altogether. So me, myself, I wouldn't chase him down.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Uma decides, texts Tatiana.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, tatiana, what do I do? Like, do we think that this is a negative vibe? Do we think it's okay? And Tatiana is like, why are you texting me? Like, just text him. Like, she's like, if you want to see him again, that's enough reason to text him.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, okay, help me craft my text. And so 20 minutes later, she texts fedora guy, and she's like, don't worry, I survived the fire. Like, can't wait to see you again. Happy face. And he responds, whew. But he doesn't. Like, there's no happy face. There's no follow up. There's no question.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

How long do you wait to text him again?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Eternity. No, she can't do it again. She has to have some self respect.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Uma is like, I'm not texting this guy back. Right. She's like, I'm gonna. I'm not texting him back. You can text me. I'll wait.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She waits a week. And then she's like, you know, these are good rules if you're trying to date someone, Right? Like, if you're trying to, like, date someone and decide if they're the one for you, these are reasonable rules. Like, he's a bad texter and doesn't care if I've died in a fire. Like, I shouldn't want to date him.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And, um, is like, but I still do want to bang him. So, like, I'm gonna text him again.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay. She just wants to get him back into her physical space where he has to duck to get through the doorway.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, exactly. So she's like, I will. I will ignore the several orange flags that have been raised. And she texts this man, rain check, question mark.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She's putting her pride Aside completely.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And he's like, absolutely. Win. And she's like, oh, okay, maybe he's just a bad texter. She's like, tonight. And he's like, totally. And she's like, great. My place. Like, no fire this time. And he's like, absolutely. Yes. How are you feeling at this point?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Concerned.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. Why?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah, I've already worried for Uma that he's gonna flake out on her, because, again, I have that data about his lack of initiative and interest, and I just don't see it panning out for her. And I'm worried about her getting her feelings hurt. I wish she would have gone after a firefighter. I just gotten back on the apps and found someone else.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. But anyway, she's laser focused, though, right? Like, horse blinders onto this, like, fedora man.

[D]

Despite wearing a hat every single day all summer long, I do have the skin of a Victorian ghost. Which means that if the sun even finds one little spot of skin that hasn't had sunscreen applied in the last, like, one hour, it destroys it. And so, you know, after a summer trying to avoid the sun, I still ended up with a little, tiny dark spot on my cheek, which is so annoying. But, you know, skin changes over time, and it can be so overwhelming to figure out the right products for your skin. Which is why we're excited to partner with Apostrophe, the sponsor of this episode. Apostrophe's goal is to help you feel confident in your own skin. Whether you're dealing with breakouts, signs of aging, or acne scarring, Apostrophe will help you love the skin you're in. Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Through Apostrophe, you can get access to oral and topical medications that use clinically proven ingredients to help clear acne. Simply fill out an online consultation about your skin goals and medical history. Then snap a few selfies, and a dermatology provider will create a customized treatment plan just for you. Apostrophe offers access to prescription treatments for all types of acne, from hormonal acne to facial acne, and even back, chest, and butt acne treat breakouts from head to toe. I famously have only one skincare goal, and it's to make all of my pores disappear and look like a beautiful little doll. And that is extremely hard to achieve by yourself with just, like, drugstore products. So that's why I love working with Apostrophe because you know you have access to an expert derm team, and they make you a tailored treatment plan, and then all of it just shows up at your house and you don't have to wait in line at the pharmacy. We have a special deal for our audience. Get your first Visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com gossip when you use our code gossip, that's a savings of $15. This code is only available to our listeners. To get started, just go to apostrophe.com gossip and click get started. Then use our code, go at signup and you'll get your first Visit for only $5. Thank you, Apostrophe, for sponsoring this episode.

[Kelsey McKinney]

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[Janae Desmond Harris]

She set a scene.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She set a scene. Fedora guy shows up at, like, 9pm.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Does he have a family at home? Why is everything so late?

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's a great question.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He texts her and he's like, I'm so sorry, but I cannot figure out how to get to your apartment. Like, can you meet me downstairs to help me? And she's like, yeah, of course. So she goes Downstairs and gets him. She brings him upstairs. He's like, it looks so nice in here. Like, did you clean? And she's like, I did. Thank you for noticing.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She didn't clean the first time when.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She knew he was having. She's like, do you want some wine? And he's like, oh, do you actually have any weed? Like, I'd rather have weed if you have any. And she's like, oh, yeah, totally. I have these new edibles that Tatiana gave me. Like, she says that they're great, like, we can use those. And he's like, great. So they take their little edibles. Feeling good? Feeling nothing yet, right? She's like, this is so fun. He's here. They're sitting on the couch. He's like, you know, touching the couch. And he's like, this couch is so uncomfortable. And in her head she's like, this is a very nice couch that I spent several paychecks on. But she's like, yeah, it is uncomfortable. You're right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Like, we should go lie down.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Go lie down. Yeah. So they move into her room and they're like, you know, getting ready. You know, things are moving. And he's like, do you have like, music or something?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, he's like, I can't. Like, the silence is gonna make me feel weird.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

It's another. To me, it's another piece of evidence. He's not into her. The evidence is just stacking up, you know, I mean, I get that music is nice, but she's already set this great scene and you're about to stop everything so you can put on a soundtrack because you, like, aren't feeling right just based on her being there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, totally. Here's a Bluetooth speaker. Put on whatever you want. I'm gonna go to the bathroom really quick, right? Cause she's like, this is not. We need a little reset. So she goes to the bathroom, she gets in there, and she's like looking in the mirror. And you know when you look in the mirror and you have like, your edible is just starting to kick in. And you're like, why are my eyes so small?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I haven't had that experience, but I can imagine how weird it would be.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, why are my eyes so small? Like, why are they red? And then she's like, oh my God. Hahaha. I forgot that I took this edible and I'm becoming high. She goes back out. He has put on like deep house music. Like, it's giving like desert sound bath playlist. So she's like, he is no longer fedora man to me. He is now sound bath man to me. She's like, whatever. Like, it doesn't matter to me what's playing. Like, I think this guy is hot. This is fine.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She's so determined.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's so determined. She gets in the bed and she's like, rapidly becoming too high. She's like, I'm so heavy. Like, my body is made of sand. She's like, all my limbs are so big. And then she's like, he is so heavy. He's made of sand. Like, will I die? Right? Her thoughts are like floating away.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I'm sure the music is just intensifying all of it too.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And she's like, push it down, right? Like, this is what I want. I want to do this. Like, I'm pushing it down. She's like looking at all of the hair on this man's head. He has so much hair. And she's like, his hairs are so beautiful. Like, I would like to keep one for myself. She's like, it's like when that guy in Lord of the Rings asked the beautiful elf for one of her hairs. And so she's like, you know, like, very mesmerized by his hair. And he's like, what are you doing? And she's like, your hair is so beautiful. Like, I'm sorry, I'm. I'm rather high, but like, can I have some? And he's like, what? And as he says, what? She's like, what is that? She swears that she can hear softly, a fire alarm.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, no, no, I'm high. I'm making it up. She's like, this must be part of the sound bath. You know, like when you're driving and like some song like man down by Rihanna is playing and you're like, are the ones following me?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I'm such a nervous driver. If there's anything resembling a horn, ambulance, I'm panicking, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, I'm just being nervous. Like last time we got interrupted by a fire alarm. It was just this. And then he's laughing, like, good spiritedly. And he's like, is that a fucking fire alarm? And she's like, I think it's your music.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

But did they smell anything? If they don't smell anything, I would say just choose to ignore it at this point. She's played so hard to get to this point.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They do not smell anything. But now it's like, again, this moment has been like, interrupted.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She doesn't believe in signs when something is not meant to be.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She does not not. She's like, I'm pretty sure it's the music. And she's very high. So she sits up straight in the middle of the bed. And she's like, trying to separate the sounds. She's like, she's like tracing every single sound to its origin point, right? She's like, there's a triangle noise maker sound. Like, that's a bass. That's him.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Didn't occur to anyone to turn off the music and listen.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He is like, let me turn off the music and we can listen. So he turns it off, and they can sure enough, like, hear a fire alarm.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Uma's like, you know, this happened. Like, fire alarms go off in apartment complexes all the time. Like, it's probably someone cooking. Because, like, the fire alarms are really sensitive. Like, let's not worry about it.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

This is what I tried to tell you. It happens all the time.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, what you said is going outside to stand in the middle of the night happens all the time. She's like, somebody's probably cooking. She's like, I'm just going to close the doors to the balcony because that will muffle this sound, right? Like it's coming from somewhere outside. So she's like, whatever. So she goes. She closes it. And he's like, what was it that happened last time? Like, was there an actual fire? And she's like, oh, yeah, there was an actual fire. Like, two apartments basically got gutted. And he's like, what?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

At this point, she's risking. She's risking her life.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And he's like, why did the fire start? Like, do you know? And she's like, yeah, there was like, a water heater, I guess, that overheated. And like, I don't know. And he's like, well, did they fix that? And she's like, I don't know. Honestly, I have no idea. So now he's, like, concerned, right? He's like, I'm not so sure that I personally wish to risk my life for this hookup. And then he's like, wait a second. And he puts his, like, giant head against the wall behind the bed. And he's like, I'm pretty sure that that's your neighbor's fire alarm.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And don't forget, last time it took out two apartments, so it could be the neighbors and hers.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, but she's like, so loosey goosey at this point that she's like, I don't understand, right? She's like, there's a fire inside the wall. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. Your neighbor's fire alarm is going off. And so she puts her ear up against the wall, and sure enough, it's clearly coming from the other side of the wall. And he's like, do you think your neighbor's in there? And she's like. She's like, I don't know. Like, usually he works nights, so, like, I don't. But I don't know him at all. He could be there. And she's also like, it's been, like, now it's been a little bit of time that this alarm has been going off, right? Like, if you're cooking and the alarm is going off, it's going off for, like, 30 seconds before you hit it, right? What do you do at this point?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

If I'm Uma and my limbs are really, really heavy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So heavy.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I care about my own life.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I would probably be like, let's just give it 10 minutes and see if we smell smoke. If we smell smoke, we'll know something is going on. And if it's really next door, we would smell the smoke. So put your sound bath back on and just try to relax for a minute.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Uma's like. She, like, gets out of the bed. She puts on, like, the pajama pants closest to her, right? Which are, like, yellow ones with a drawstring and, like, a cropped T shirt. And she's like, you can wait in the bed. Like, I'm just gonna poke my head out on the balcony and see what's going on. And this guy is like, I'm not waiting in the bed if there's a fire. And she's like, that's a really good point. You know, whatever. So she goes out on the balcony, and she can see, like, from the balcony into her neighbor's kitchen, and there is smoke in there. What now?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

You gotta evacuate. I mean, grab your valuables, get your passport, photo albums. At this point, I know Uma, like, I understand where your head is, but you've gotta let this one go. It wasn't meant to be with Booktok guy. Get your valuables and go outside.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, there's smoke in there. I'm gonna call 911. And he's like, I think that's for the best. So she's on the phone with 911, and she's like, here's all the info. Like, here's what's going on. Here's where we are. While she's on the phone, the date is, like, signaling that he's leaving. And she's like, don't leave. Like, stay. But she can't talk to him. She's talking to the, like, emergency response people, and she's like, I don't know. I think it's like, stairwell three. Like, da, da, da, da. By the time she's off the phone, he's gone.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay. I'm not surprised in the least.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Why?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Because he's been trying to get away from her this whole time.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, this is. Is so sad. She hears, like, that sad sound of the Bluetooth speaker, like, disconnecting from his phone, and she's like, this is terrible. But she's also like, you know what? I've done the right thing here. Like, the right thing was to call 911 on this fire and over, like, getting to sleep with this guy. Right?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Now the alarm in her apartment is going off, so she's like, okay, it is time to go. So she, like, puts on, you know, like, her slippers or. Or Crocs or whatever, and she, like, puts her valuables in a bag, and she goes downstairs. Something about Uma is that she has, like, a big thigh tattoo.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Which would theoretically not be relevant except that she's wearing pajama pants. And as she's going down the stairs, she realizes that she can, like, see.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

The entire tattoo through her yellow, thin pajama pants. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

These are, like, Forever 21 pajama pants that she's had for 21 years. Right. They're in horrible condition, and they're, like, threadbare. So she's like, my entire pants are see through, and I am now going downstairs where all the hot firemen will be and also all of my neighbors.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you go back to your apartment and change?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

No, because we're talking about life here. We're talking about survival. Yeah. Go outside and sit down somewhere so no one can see your butt. You'll be fine.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Smart. She's like, one fire. I cannot go back in there. 2. She's like, the apartment complex is complicated, and I want to tell. I want to help the fire department find apartment so that my fucking apartment doesn't go up in flames.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right. So she gets down to the parking lot in her see through pants, and one of her people are, like, in motion. Right? Because now we've had one fire that turned out to be bad. So, like, one of her neighbors is, like, hopping over a fence to let the fire trucks in. There are, like, so many of them. And Suddenly she's like, entering the next phase of high. And she's like, what did I say on the phone? Where am I?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you do?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

At this point, Uma seems like she needs a big glass of water and some coffee. But if I'm in her state of mind, I probably call my friend who lives in the building for some help.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Tatiana.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Perspective. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Uma is like, I don't have time for that because I promised on the phone with the emergency responders that I would help the firemen find this apartment. Right.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she sees in the parking lot the firefighter lady from before, and she's like, hello again. The firefighter lady is like, hello. And Uma's like, I'm the one that called it in. And the firefighter lady is like, thank you so much for, like, your good citizenship. Like, it's important to call in fires. And she's like, thank you, but I can take you there. Like, I can take you to the apartment where it is. And the firefighter lady is like, perfect, let's do that. Good idea. You lead the way. So she's like, leading all these firefighters up four flights of stairs. And as she's going up the stairs, she's like, my pants are see through. Like, they're all of these firefighters following me up the stairs with my see through butt.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

But you know what? Don't you always think in situations like that they've seen it all? I always tell them. And they're not judging you, and you know it's not true because they will talk about you in their group chat. But it's just a comforting thought that they've been in a lot of wild situations. They've seen a butt before. They're always going places in the middle of the night. They've seen pajamas. It's fine.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, I would be embarrassed if I were not driven by purpose. Right? She's like, I have meaning to my life. I am important. This is my job. I am like a good citizen. She's like, who cares if every firefighter in this busy, busy town sees my entire ass? Like, that's fine. She gets them up there. And she's like, this is my apartment. And the firefighters are like, okay. And she's like, oh, right, sorry. My bad. This is the apartment where the fire is. And there's like, smoke coming from under the door. And they're like, who lives here? And she's.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

They have to know that before they go put the fire out.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're just. Well, people are working While people are asking her questions, don't worry. People are doing things. But one guy is like, who lives here? And she's like, I don't know, some guy. And they're like, what guy? And she's like, I don't know. He's like, 510, he wears glasses. He has an arm tattoo. He has annoying music taste. That's like, all I know about him. And they're like, no, we meant like, do you know him? Can you call him? And she's like, oh, no, I don't. I don't know him. And they're like, does anyone else live here? Like kids or pets? And she's like, I don't think so. And they're like, okay, then we're gonna. We're gonna like go quickly. Like, please stand back. At this point, another firefighter, not the lady, comes over to her and is like, thank you so much for calling. And shakes her hand. And she's like, I have helped. Like I'm basically a firefighter, right? She's like, is this what patriotism feels like? Like, I've never felt it before. She's like, so neat. Yeah. She's like, should I sing God Bless America? And then she's like, no, no, no. You don't sing at work. I need to be focused. Also, the firefighters are starting to do things, right? Like they are working to get into the store. And so she's like, do I need to leave? To one of the firefighters? And the firefighter is like, no, you can stay. Just like, stay back. And she's like, I knew it. I knew I was a firefighter now. So she stays. And this is like a gossip extreme, right? Because you get to watch them do whatever it is they do. You don't have to hear it third hand. So she watches them, like, cut a hole in the door and then stick their hand through and like open the door from the inside.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I never knew, honestly.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Genius. I assumed there was a big axe.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I thought it was like, I thought you just knocked.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, like in Beauty and the Beast. Do they have like a log? Yeah, they open the door like, like pretty quickly. Uma's like, this is incredible. I love my profession. I love art.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

The whole time she could be right next door in her apartment putting on some non transparent pants.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But anyway, the whole time. But she is not. The whole time they're doing this, she's like, this is so great. I love it. They open the door and the minute the door is open, a dog comes running out. And she's like, oh, Shit, he did have a dog. Like, I totally forgot about that. But she's also like, this dog has no collar. And, like, also she's like, I'm high. So I'm like, doggy, right? She's like, I love the dog. And she's like, I want to get the dog, and I want to make sure the dog is okay. She's like, I know I have a leash in my car because she, like, walks dogs sometimes. And she's like, but I'm at work. Like, I'm a firefighter now. Like, who is my boss, right? Can I go after the dog? And she's, like, so confused. So she finds the lady firefighter, and she's like, can I go to my car? And the lady firefighter is like, yes. And she's like, okay, great. So she runs down the stairs and, like, across the parking lot through all the neighbors and the firefighters in her see through pants. And she gets the leash from her car. And apparently this dog, like, has followed her because a lot of dogs like it when someone is running, so they're, like, fun. So he ran with her, and she's like, perfect, the dog is here. So she puts the little collar and the leash on him, and she's like, cute dog. Little collie mix. I love my new dog. So she's standing there with the dog, who is sitting just, like, watching now, and she's like, the dog's eyes are so beautiful. Like, what does the dog know? Is the dog a spirit? She's like, I'm a firefighter, and I'm uniquely connected to animals. And then she's like, what am I if not also an animal, right? She, like, puts her face on the dog's face. At this point, she sees Tatiana, okay? Tatiana comes running up to her, and Tatiana is like, where the did you get a dog? And Uma's like, no, no, no, no. It's not my dog. I saved the dog. And her friend is like, what? Like, is this fedora guy's dog? Like, weren't you supposed to see him tonight? And she's like, oh, I'm not calling him fedora guy anymore. I'm calling him sound bath by now. And she's like, why? And Uma's like, because he put on fucking, like, desert sound bath music for us to bang. And Tatiana's like, so you did bang? And Uma's like, no. Tatiana's like, again, like, you let him get away. And Uma's like, I guess so. Like, at this point, I'm like, he's just gonna be away, I guess. And Tatiana's like, well, don't lose the dog since you're like in a habit of losing things now. Uma's like, haha, Owned, Got me. Now Uma's looking at her friend and she's like, I love you, Tatiana. Because she's like, woozy. She's like, I love being your friend. She's like putting her hand on Tatiana's face. And Tatiana is like, are you high? And Uma's like, I am more high than the clouds at the sky. And Tatiana is like, jesus Christ. And Uma's like, I took those edibles you gave me. I feel great. And Tatiana's like, why are you taking a giant edible before you, like, bang, whatever. Like, I can't deal with this right now. And now Uma in her high brain remembers. She's like, wait, wait, wait. I'm a firefighter. I'm supposed to be with the firefighters.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah, she was on her 15 minute break. She wasn't off duty.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. She's like, shit. I just. I asked for permission to go to my car, but I'm supposed to be up there. She's like, I have to go. I am needed. And Tatiana's like, what? And, um, is like, I must fire fight. And Tatiana's like, I don't think. What are you talking about? So she goes running up the stairs with the dog. Uma is reaching a new stage of her high.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She is like, ascending. The heavens are opening.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She watches as her brethren like, inter. But she is like, not ready yet. She's such a new fireman angel. In go her friends. They go one by one. They're yelling out. They're like, no one is home. No one is hurt. Uma is like, peace has prevailed.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And her apartment's okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And her apartment is fine, thank God. She's like, finally, I can enter. She's like, this is my apartment. Because the floor plans are identical. And so she's like, things have changed here. Like this. This table was not here before. The kitchen is in the same spot. The living room's in the same spot. Like I exist in the past and the present at the same time, right? Like she's on one, okay? On the stove, a pot is smoking. Her colleague, the fireman removes it and takes it off the burner. And she's like, what was it? And the fireman is like, it looks like Mac and cheese. And Uma's like, I'm so hungry. She's like, do you think I could Eat that. And the fireman is like, I don't think so.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's, like, very burnt. And shows it to her, and it's, like, black. And she's like, oh. She opens a cabinet. She's like, oh, Pop Tarts. She takes out a Pop Tart. She begins to eat it. A little for her, a little for the dog. She's like, I love it here. Like, my friends are here. The tiles are greeting me as I pass. Like, she begins to examine her new home. And she's like. Like, the photos are so strange. Like, there's a man in these. Who is he? She sits on the couch, and she's like, this couch is so comfortable. And then she's like, maybe the sound bath man was right. And then she's like, wait a second. The sound bath man. The couch. My couch. This is not my apartment, right?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

She's, like, staring up a little.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, this is my neighbor's apartment. She's like, oh, my God. What if sound bath man and I were very loud and that's why he.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Left with the macaroni cheese on the stove?

[Kelsey McKinney]

What if he's in love with me and he was jealous and he had to rush out?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

It's one theory.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's finding clues. She's like, it all makes sense. There's an Alison Roman cookbook. I have an Alison Roman cookbook. Our apartments are the same color. That's the color they were both painting. She's like, we both have rugs. We both love this dog.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Twin flames.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Twin flame. Finally, she's met her twin flame. She is jarred out of the swan fantasy by the firemen being like, we are leaving. Will you be okay with the dog? Everything is clear here. And Uma's like, yes, I will continue our mission. And they're like, okay, what? They're like, will you tell him what happened? And she's like, yes. And then they look at each other and they write a note. And the note is basically like, we have come into your apartment because something was on fire. We had to break your door. Like, please tell your landlord, and he will fix it. Uma can't read this. She holds the note in her hand. The letters are, like, moving around. She's like, I can't read. I'll never know what this says. When suddenly she looks up and that man is there from the photos. And she's like, he's alive, and he's carrying such a large bag. And she's like, you're alive. And she goes to him and she hugs him. He does not hug her back, of course. She's like, the vibe in here is shifting. Like, this is not heaven. It's now hell. He doesn't want me here. We aren't twin flames.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

The dog's probably over her, too, now that it's real and hers.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The dog is over her, too. He's leaving. An angel is talking to her. And the angel is like, you, we have to leave. The angel shepherds her out like, it's time to go. And Uma's like, angels know so many things. She's like, goodbye, heaven. Goodbye, man. And off she goes next door to go to sleep. Okay, we are almost at the end. What do you think? Whose side are you on? Give me it all.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Uma. I'm worried about her. I'm worried about our girl. I think she's prone to wake up sober, deaf, and still try to pursue fedora sound bath man. I actually think she might try to sink her teeth into the neighbor now. Now that she's, like, had this moment with him. But his first impression of her probably wasn't fantastic. I'm still trying to figure out if her neighbor friend Tatiana plays a role in this whole story at all. I'm a little bit suspicious, and I don't like the way Tatiana talked to her about sort of mocking the fact that she lost the guy and the dog. That's a red flag to me. I don't know. I'm curious to see how Uma feels when she wakes up and if she decides to just kind of turn over a new leaf and maybe pursue someone new or whether she's gonna keep on this path.

[Kelsey McKinney]

In the morning, she wakes up and she's like, I feel so tired. And she's like, that was so strange. But she's, like, sober again. And she's like, huh? And she texts Tatiana. And she's like, last night was so weird. Like, I had a dream that I went into that guy's apartment with the firefighters, and an angel guided me out.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Is that how being really high normally works? Do you?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't know. I don't think so. Tatiana is like, you're such a dumbass. Like, that was not a dream. I was with you. I went with you because you demanded to go into the apartment because you were like, I'm one of the firemen now, and you ate his Pop Tarts. Like, you ransacked this man's apartment. And Uma's like, no. Tatiana is like, this poor guy. Like, he, like, showed up, and you were just Eating his pop Tarts. And I had to be like, we're leaving. I'm so sorry about my friend who's also your next door neighbor. And Uma's like, I was just so happy that he was alive. And Tatiana was like, no one ever thought he was dead.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

In what world was he gonna be dead when he like, what are you doing far from the burning apartment and the Mac and cheese in no danger.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Uba's like, oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed. Like, that all makes so much sense. She's like, do you know what happened to him? And Tatiana's like, yeah, he went to get his stuff to move it from the washer to the dryer in the one laundry room that exists, which is far from their apartment. And someone had, like, left their stuff in the dryer. So he waited, like, 15 minutes for them to come move it. And like, they didn't come, so he gave them five more minutes, and then he removed it and put his stuff in and forgot his Mac and cheese on the stove. And all of this took place in, like, a 30 minute time period.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

He should have just moved it right away.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wait, say more.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I mean, they're in this apartment building with really, really limited washers and dryers. I think everyone would understand if the dryer has stopped, it's fair game to just move it at that point. We got it. We got to keep this whole thing moving. You can't be sitting around waiting for 15 minutes for the one dryer.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, but he's like, I didn't. He was trying to be nice or whatever. He comes back, this poor guy, right? He comes back and he forgot his Mac and cheese on the stove. The firefighters have broken his door. Uma has touched all of his shit and, like, fed his dog pop tarts. And Uma is like, oh, my God. Like, this is so embarrassing. I had to live with this, man. Like, this is so bad. And Tatiana's like, you were on one. But, like, it was funny. Like, everyone could tell that you were just, like, extremely high.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

That makes it worse. Everyone could tell.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. She's like, this is awful. But she's also like, this is extremely funny. So Tatiana and Uma are, like, laughing and laughing and laughing when her phone buzzes.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Uh oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she looks at her phone and she has a text from the sound bath guy.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And he's like, I'm so sorry I didn't hang out. I was really freaked out by the fact that the other apartments caught on fire. And you were, like, so calm about It. He's like, did you survive this fire? Happy face.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Do you text him back if I move? Of course. She probably invited him right over.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, I did survive. Thank you so much for asking. And he's like, well, do you want to, like, see each other again? And she's like, I would love that. Okay. Do you want to come over tonight?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Oh, my God, no. Can they go to his house?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Coming to your apartment? He's like, can you come to my house? And she's like, yes. So the final update I have for you is that she did go to his house and they did finally bang.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Okay. Happy ending for her, literally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But he didn't have a bed frame, so after that, he's become known as floor mattress Man.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And wait, do you know, was it just that one time? Was she satisfied?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think it was just that one time. I think it was like she got what she came for, you know?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

And do we know, did she ever connect with her neighbor at all?

[Kelsey McKinney]

She did connect with her neighbor. He, like, made fun of her. It was like, you were, like, light heartedly, like, you were so high. And she was like, I brought you, like, she brought him new pop tarts.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

To be like, that's really sweet. I think this whole story is about a meet cute with a neighbor.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think so too.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I would like an update.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We haven't gotten an update yet.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I would love an update.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you have any final takeaways or morals from this story?

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Even though I obviously was judging Uma throughout, she made a lot of choices that I didn't think were the best.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mm.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I think it all goes to show that she followed her heart. She did exactly what she wanted to do in each moment. Right. And actually, at the end of the day, she got the outcome that she wanted on date one with Fedora.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She did.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

So I really can't. I mean, I stand corrected. Yeah, I stand corrected. I think she. She was true to herself. She was authentic, and in what. In whatever weird way it worked out for her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It seemed like it turned out okay.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Yeah. She made a new connection with her neighbor.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

I still have my eye on Tatiana. I don't know. I think she's a little bit of a shady friend, but overall, yeah, I think I learned a little something from this story, and I'm happy for Uma.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow. Junaid, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you.

[Janae Desmond Harris]

Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This podcast was produced by Alex Soojong Laughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman, Justin Ellis is Defectors Project's editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Tom Lay is our Editor in chief. J. Tolviera is our Associate producer. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show. Art thank you to Jasper Wang, Katherine Shu, Patrick Redford, Israel Deramola, Ray Ratto, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna and Luis Paez Pumar for your help on the season and thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company and Normal Gossip is a proud member of radiotopia. I'm Kelsey McKinney and please remember you did not hear this from me. Radiotopia from PRX.