Rachel Hampton (3:31)

Wait, custody arrangement for the snakeskin boots.

Yowei Shah (3:35)

Sisterhood of the traveling pants, but for cowboy boots. So recently I was catching up with one of my friends and I was like, so who has the boots? Is there any boot drama yet?

Rachel Hampton (3:45)

Yeah.

Yowei Shah (3:46)

And he was like, boot brothers don't have drama. And then he said, I quote, I try to live without gossip.

Rachel Hampton (3:55)

Your friend just went from so high in my ranking of other people's friends to so low so quickly. How do you go from the iconicness of the first rule of boot brothers is don't talk about boot brothers to I try to live without gossip. Why would you do that? Why would you deprive yourself?

Yowei Shah (4:17)

I felt very judged and I also felt sad for him.

Rachel Hampton (4:21)

Yeah.

Yowei Shah (4:22)

Because I was like, you're setting yourself up in this very cute situation. Why wouldn't you try to squeeze some, like, gossip juice out of this? You know, like, even if it's positive gossip.

Rachel Hampton (4:34)

Exactly.

Yowei Shah (4:35)

I have a very expansive definition of gossip. So, like, positive gossip counts too.

Rachel Hampton (4:41)

Yes, 100%. Kelsey calls it possip. Positive gossip, which is very cute. And I feel like that situation lends itself so well to positive gossip. Like, did you wear the boots on a date? Did the date go well? Did the date go badly? Did the date notice the boots? Who's complimented you on the boots in public? What were they wearing? What are you wearing the boots with?

Yowei Shah (5:07)

Let me take a selfie with my boots and send it to you every time I wear them.

Rachel Hampton (5:13)

Show me the boots. That's gossip.

Yowei Shah (5:15)

There's endless amounts of possip to get out of these boots. So I feel sad for him. I'm choosing not to take it personally. It's really about him. It's not about me.

Rachel Hampton (5:26)

He needs to expand his mind. I need him to consider that he contains multitudes Mm. I could talk about this for hours. But speaking of wanting to know gossip.

Yowei Shah (5:38)

Mm.

Rachel Hampton (5:38)

I heard you have some gossip for me that I wanna know.

Yowei Shah (5:42)

I do. I have this friend who I'm gonna call Harper. And last summer, Harper went to an action in D.C. she was planning on getting arrested. And as her friend, you know, I was, like, worried. Protests can get violent. So I was waiting by the phone, waiting for an update. And I don't get an update from her until the next morning when Harper finally texts me back. And she was like, the action was super good, super powerful, super successful.

Rachel Hampton (6:11)

Okay.

Yowei Shah (6:11)

Also, I have some gossip. And what you need to know about Harper is that for the past year or so, she's dated a string of very similar people, all from the same social justice organizing circle. Let's just say the type is, like, DIY punk musician, weird, working odd jobs to support their activism and music. All these guys loved to cook for her. Not only are these dudes the same person on paper, they all broke up with Harper in similar painful ways, you know? So the pattern is like, she meets the guy. It's great.

Rachel Hampton (6:47)

Yeah.

Yowei Shah (6:48)

And then things sour. One day, they're at her house making falafel and hummus for her, and then 36 hours later, they're not returning her texts.

Rachel Hampton (7:00)

Yeah, that's about what I expect from this milieu of man that you were describing. Mm.

Yowei Shah (7:05)

So, yeah. So Harper has, you know, had her heart broken by this string of X. By the same person, essentially. And she's never gotten an apology from any of these guys that doesn't involve hooking up again. And all of these breakups have, like, messed with her confidence in a similar way where it's like, you know, the guy will say stuff like, oh, you care too much about your career. You care too much about work.

Rachel Hampton (7:30)

What? No.

Yowei Shah (7:31)

I know. I really hate when people say that. As someone who works all the time.

Rachel Hampton (7:36)

Yeah.

Yowei Shah (7:37)

But, you know, like, Harper's like, am I not artsy enough? Am I not cool enough? Am I too smart?

Rachel Hampton (7:41)

Harper, it's not you.

Yowei Shah (7:44)

I know, but this is where Harper's at when she goes to this action. So what ended up happening was, at the action, she ended up getting arrested and handcuffed to someone who was also from the same social justice organizing circle. Someone who she's friendly with and who's friendly with all of her various exes.

Rachel Hampton (8:06)

Okay.

Yowei Shah (8:07)

And they end up getting handcuffed together for 13 hours in the blazing July sun in front of the Capitol building on the sidewalk.

Rachel Hampton (8:17)

That's a really long Time.

Yowei Shah (8:19)

It's way too long to be handcuffed to anyone, so they just start talking to pass the time. First hour, second hour, they're just, like, talking about the action. Will they get food? Like, will the police let them go, you know, to the bathroom? The answer is basically no and no. And then by, like, the third and fourth hour, they've switched topics. They're, like, getting to know each other. Like, what are their hobbies? And Harper learns that let's call him Jake. He is also a DIY punk musician. Jake is also really into cooking, specifically vegetarian Indian food.

Rachel Hampton (8:53)

I'm not surprised.

Yowei Shah (8:55)

Also, Jake just got out of a relationship, but recently has been hooking up and having a great time.

Rachel Hampton (9:02)

Oh.

Yowei Shah (9:03)

Harper's like, oh, shit. This is the, like, exact same person who I've been dating and who's broken my heart multiple times. So, long story short, Harper and Jake get put on a paddy wagon. They end up in this warehouse with hundreds of other protesters who've been arrested. It's like hour five or six by now, they're still handcuffed. And she's just, like, feeling delirious and loose. And so she's just like, jake, I want to get your read on something because you're actually kind of similar to my exes that I've dated. And she just proceeds to tell him all about her exes and the breakups and how it made her feel. And Jake listens, nods his head, and when she's done talking, he's immediately like, I am so sorry. And he's not saying sorry in, like, a, you know, breakups, they suck kind of way. He's, like, being really specific because he knows these guys and he identifies. Basically, he's had similar struggles. And he starts, like, kind of apologizing on their behalf, and he's like, that's really shitty. Like, they shouldn't have treated you that way. Like, they probably feel insecure for X, y and Z reasons. Like, they're probably threatened by your success and you're totally artsy and cool enough. Like, this is, like, stuff they need to work on that I had to work on in my relationships. So when Harper gets home, finally after 13 hours, she gets to go to the bathroom. She's relieved. She feels like a burden has lifted off of her. And it's not just because she's not weighed down by urine. It's because she told me in this text that, like, she feels like her heart is lighter. She wrote yowei. I had a real life proxy conversation.

Rachel Hampton (10:58)

I was literally just thinking, this Sounds like proxy.

Yowei Shah (11:01)

No, no, I know. This is why she text. She was like, yoe, I had a real life proxy conversation and it was helpful in my healing. Actually, these proxy conversations being the thing that I do on my show or, you know, I place people with strangers who have relevant experience to talk through the problem that they share. And she said that like, there was just something that hit different because, like, you know, I had been telling her all her friends had been telling her the exact same things this whole time. But there's just something about like hearing an apology from someone who has played that role before in a relationship and who like, resembles that person that you're having conflict with. It was like healing.

Rachel Hampton (11:41)

Yeah. I can only imagine. I mean, I feel like so many people in my life have had the experience of being broken up with in the same sort of casually cruel way where your humanity is sort of denied. And it's not necessarily the most devastating breakup, but it is the most confusing. And I think just being able to answer the question of why did this happen? Why did this happen this way, being able to answer those questions and not just having to sit with the uncertainty is so healing. I love that for Harper. I hate that she was handcuffed for 13 hours and dehydrated, but I love that she was a handcuffed to her proxy. That is incredible luck. I hope Jake is not doing this in further relationships.

Yowei Shah (12:30)

I know that's like really the follow up that we have to investigate.

Rachel Hampton (12:34)

It's one thing to be self aware. It's another thing to change your actions.

Yowei Shah (12:38)

Exactly.

Rachel Hampton (12:39)

Yes.

Yowei Shah (12:40)

Maybe that will be a proxy investigation.

Rachel Hampton (12:44)

Please just connect people with like the people who have ghosted.

Yowei Shah (12:48)

Mm.

Rachel Hampton (12:49)

Where it's like, just explain why. Just tell me why. Wow, that was great gossip. Thank you, Yoe.

Yowei Shah (12:56)

You're welcome.

Rachel Hampton (12:58)

Are you ready for some gossip of your own?

Yowei Shah (13:01)

I cannot wait. I'm so excited. Yeah. Let's go. Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

Rachel Hampton (13:32)

This year. Make peace with your hair. It's not just about how it looks. It's a reflection of what's going on inside. And sometimes it just needs a little support. Nutrafol helps nourish your hair from within. So you can feel good knowing you're giving it what it needs to grow strong and healthy Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. Unlike one size fits all solutions, Nutrafol offers multiple formulas tailored to different needs, whether it's postpartum, menopause or general hair wellness. With 100% drug free ingredients, the formula targets key root causes of thinning like stress hormones and nutrition. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For unlimited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code normalgossip. Find out why over 7,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutrafol for Healthier Hair nutrafol.com spelled N U T R A F O L.com promo code normalgossip that's nutrafol.com, promo code normalgossip. Our story today takes place in a small island community off the coast of Washington State. The year round population is just under 2,000 people, though that number doubles during the summer when the island is maybe one of the most beautiful places in the world. Because this island is only accessible by ferry or helicopter, the community is super tight knit. Almost all of the emergency services on the island are done by volunteers from the community, from the EMTs to the fire department to the harbor patrol. Do you have any experience living in like a small community like this? Does it appeal to you at all?

Yowei Shah (15:29)

I used to be involved in the Chinese Christian Church community as a kid and that did not end well for me. But I want to go to that island. That sounds like a nice version of the tight knit community.

Rachel Hampton (15:43)

So far that is exactly how our friend of a friend Kennedy felt. Kennedy moved to Island 10 years ago when she was 24. You see one of Kennedy's favorite movies growing up was the 1990 Arnold Schwarzenegger film Kindergarten Cop. Have you seen this movie?

Yowei Shah (16:01)

I bet I have. I don't remember it off the top of my head, but I'm just seeing Arnold's abs just like what's flashing in my head.

Rachel Hampton (16:11)

That is the most important image that you could have in your mind and this movie is not essential viewing. It is pretty cute. I will say that Arnold Schwarzenegger is an LAPD detective who has to go undercover as a kindergarten teacher in the Pacific Northwest. Hijinks ensue, but I think the most important thing to note is that the Town they film in is absolutely gorgeous. It has got that beautiful morning fog. The mountains are towering in the distance. Kennedy saw that movie as a little kid in the flat suburban sprawl of the Midwest and decided that when she grew up, she was gonna live in the Pacific Northwest no matter what.

Yowei Shah (16:51)

Oh, wow. So she was, like, really inspired by Arnold Schwarzenegger's character.

Rachel Hampton (16:56)

She was.

Yowei Shah (16:57)

She wants to be him without being a cop.

Rachel Hampton (17:01)

Yeah. She took the most important parts of that movie.

Yowei Shah (17:05)

She got the right message.

Rachel Hampton (17:06)

Exactly. So when Kennedy saw a listing for a registered nurse on the island, she packed her bags immediately. And that was 10 years ago. And it was the perfect choice for her. Kennedy loves island life. It feels like the sort of place where the Winchester brothers from Supernatural would go in, like, the absolute best possible way. Kennedy loves that she can pretty much bike everywhere she needs to. She loves that she knows everyone and everyone knows her. She loves how the remoteness of the island instills a real sense of community engagement. Within a few months of her living there, she was asked to join the planning board, even though her degrees were in music, theater, and art history, and she was 24 years old.

Yowei Shah (17:52)

Oh, my God. That right there means that nobody wants to be on the planning board. And you are really reaching. You are like, anybody, please volunteer?

Rachel Hampton (18:03)

And Kennedy did. She did it for six whole years, but she decided six years in that there might be a more fun way to serve her community. Yoe. Did you ever have the little kid dream of being a firefighter?

Yowei Shah (18:17)

I have to say, I'm absolutely a wuss. So the answer is absolutely not. If there's a fire, I'm running away from the fire. But I think I had a fantasy at some point of, like, getting with a firefighter, because that sounds hot.

Rachel Hampton (18:33)

Oh, same. A person in uniform.

Yowei Shah (18:37)

So hot.

Rachel Hampton (18:38)

So hot. Strong. Can break down a door, can pick.

Yowei Shah (18:41)

Me up and carry me out of a burning building. Sign me up. Enough said.

Rachel Hampton (18:46)

Enough said. So Kennedy also hadn't had any real dreams of being a firefighter when she grew up. She's not a real adrenaline junkie. One of her least favorite things about living on the island is knowing that if she ever needs to be medically evacuated, it'll have to be in one of those tiny island hopper airplanes, which she refers to as a flying tin can.

Yowei Shah (19:09)

Oh, shit.

Rachel Hampton (19:10)

So when Clara, the chief of the fire department at the time, approached Kennedy about joining the fire department, Kennedy's first question was, do I have to drive the fire truck? And Clara laughed and then said, only if you want to be Chief, which is great because Kennedy does not want to be chief, especially because Clara is such a great chief. Clara had single handedly recruited half of the firefighting department through just raw charisma. Clara's like 5:2, but she can squat 330 pounds.

Yowei Shah (19:41)

Hell yeah.

Rachel Hampton (19:42)

She's covered in beautiful botanical tattoos. All native to Washington state, of course.

Yowei Shah (19:48)

Hot.

Rachel Hampton (19:49)

What kind of skills do you think a volunteer fire chief on a small island might need? And would you want this job?

Yowei Shah (19:56)

A fire chief needs to be cool, calm, collected in moments of emergency. You also have to be a leader. Like, the charisma part seems really important because everyone's a volunteer. So you have to get people on board with the mission and keep them engaged enough that they'll keep serving. You also kind of have to be like a coach.

Rachel Hampton (20:21)

Yeah.

Yowei Shah (20:21)

Like, you have to get the morale up, make sure everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing. Probably someone who's very good at, like, direct communication because, like, we're dealing with life or death situations. So, like, no passive aggressiveness. If someone's fucking up, you're like, pick up the goddamn phone when I'm calling you when there's a fire. Oh, wait, I haven't even mentioned any skills that have to do with putting out fire. Oh, my gosh.

Rachel Hampton (20:48)

You can learn those on the job.

Yowei Shah (20:50)

That's all the way at the top. A lot of skills I could keep going. And the answer is absolutely not. I would not trust myself.

Rachel Hampton (20:59)

Clara has all of those skills that you mentioned. Clara, charismatic Clara, such a direct communicator. She knows how to praise early and often, but also knows how to give proper feedback. And one important thing to know about Clara is that she recently got engaged. The love of her life. The whole fire department is all like, Clara, Clara, Clara. Kennedy is also over the moon because she loves Clara and Kennedy also loves love. But Kennedy's also a little nervous because Clara is stepping down to plan her wedding. Very fair. I've never planned a wedding before, but I've heard it's a lot of work.

Yowei Shah (21:38)

As someone who has, yes, it's annoying.

Rachel Hampton (21:40)

Clara's like, I'm not planning a wedding and volunteer fire chiefing. I just gotta do one of these things. I'm a focus on my personal life. And so when Clara steps down, she appointed Grace Williams as her successor. Technically, Kennedy, who is assistant chief, was up for the job, but four years of the fire department have made Kennedy no less afraid of driving the fire truck. It's too big and unwieldy and loud. Kennedy won't even drive a U Haul. She's not doing that. Meanwhile, Grace loved driving the fire truck, and she's a great firefighter insofar as anyone is on this island. Because it's so small, almost none of the job really entailed fighting fires. But Grace is very organized and also very young, which means she both has a lot of energy and no kids. While Kennedy has a preschooler at this point, when Grace joined the fire department, she started doing a lot of extra projects for the crew, like reorganizing the storage closet so that it's usable and not a fire hazard. So all of that is why Claire tapped her to become the chief. But why Grace is confirmed as chief through a majority vote is because all of those reasons and because Grace is a Williams. And according to our friend of a friend who said, I quote, I included her last name because the Williams family is sort of a big deal, at least according to the Williams family. First of all, there are a lot of them. Most of them stayed on the island and had several children, each of whom has stayed on the island and had several children, some of whom are still on the island. They have their own special seats in a corner of the stadium at football games. They're like a little mafia.

Yowei Shah (23:20)

Oh, my God. Okay, that feels. It's starting to get a little creepy now.

Rachel Hampton (23:27)

And the Williams have been some of the first settlers on this island. So they're both incredibly important to the island's founding and also incredibly infamous for some of their ancestors misadventures. One of the reasons the fire department is so respected on island is because way back in 1923, Grace's great grandmother, Eunice Williams, her barn had burned down in what became the biggest fire in island history.

Yowei Shah (23:55)

Oh, no.

Rachel Hampton (23:56)

It had taken more than two hours to wrangle a crew together. And by then, the fire had spread, eventually engulfing downtown. It's now very easy to tell architecturally what was built on the island pre and post fire. This fire looms so large in the collective imagination that it basically becomes Island's version of 9 11.

Yowei Shah (24:15)

Oh, my God.

Rachel Hampton (24:17)

Have you ever lived somewhere like a town or a campus where everyone was sort of haunted by this event that happened a long time ago, but it's up there in the brain.

Yowei Shah (24:28)

I mean, I live in Philadelphia, where the move bombing in West Philadelphia, I mean, haunts everybody here?

Rachel Hampton (24:34)

Yeah. So similarly, Kennedy heard about this fire within two weeks of moving there. It is just this kind of stain on the collective imagination. And her first thought was, how are the Williams still so Prominent after this. If they caused this big fire, isn't the mayor a Williams? What's going on here? In the aftermath of Eunice's barn fire, the Williams family quietly paid for half of the construction that had to be done in town because they wanted to preserve their reputation. It also helped that at any given moment, half of the population is somehow married or related to a Williams, if not a Williams themselves. The same is true of the fire department, as in half of it is somehow married, related to or a Williams himself. Which meant no one was really surprised when Grace was confirmed as chief.

Yowei Shah (25:28)

Oh, my goodness. Wow.

Rachel Hampton (25:31)

Ok, after high school, Grace went to a good college, but she graduated right into the 2008 recession. So that was when she moved back to island and started working for her dad, Elijah, who manages a little collection of vacation rentals on the island that are notoriously shitty.

Yowei Shah (25:49)

Oh, no.

Rachel Hampton (25:50)

Tourists are always complaining about leaks and exposed wiring, but the island's code enforcement officer is married to a Williams, so nothing really ever gets done.

Yowei Shah (26:02)

I'm sensing a pattern. I'm sensing a pattern.

Rachel Hampton (26:06)

Keep that pattern in your mind.

Yowei Shah (26:08)

Oh, my goodness.

Rachel Hampton (26:09)

Okay, all this to say Grace's appointment to fire chief makes Kennedy just a little bit nervous. Sure, Grace is competent, but if 10 years on this island have taught Kennedy anything, it's to be prepared for everything. Especially when a Williams is involved.

Yowei Shah (26:25)

Oh, my goodness.

Rachel Hampton (26:26)

How are you feeling so far? Do you have any immediate concerns? Your boss is about to be a 24 year old.

Yowei Shah (26:32)

Okay, well, 24. Your brain is not fully developed until 26.

Rachel Hampton (26:37)

It's true.

Yowei Shah (26:38)

So that's my first concern. Which is just like impulse control. That was one of the skills that we listed.

Rachel Hampton (26:46)

You're right. That Clara had.

Yowei Shah (26:48)

Right, that Clara had. Which is to be calm, cool, collected in an emergency. I'm with Kennedy and having concerns, but also, what is she gonna do about it?

Rachel Hampton (26:58)

Well, the thing is, at first, things honestly go just fine under Grace's leadership. They're maybe even good. Oh, like, everything is very organized. A bunch of physical paperwork and records that had been sitting around since the late 90s was finally digitized. Another fire hazard removed from the fire department.

Yowei Shah (27:18)

O go Grace.

Rachel Hampton (27:20)

Yeah. Grace signs herself and Kennedy up to be CPR instructors for the first responder course that all the emergency services volunteers go through. Does Kennedy necessarily have time for this? With a preschooler at home, who's to say? But it's a worthwhile endeavor, so Kennedy is mostly fine with it. What Kennedy isn't fine with is the way her duties as assistant chief slowly Start getting eroded. The first thing to go is Kennedy's responsibility to order inventory, which she's been doing since she was named assistant chief two years ago. But Grace's reasoning for taking over inventory ordering made sense. Sort of. Grace thought that since the budget was ultimately the chief's responsibility, it made sense for her to have discretion over how the funds were allocated. What do you think of this rationale?

Yowei Shah (28:10)

I'm not liking this. I like responsibilities being taken off Kennedy's plate for her work life balance. But whenever, like, the person in charge is, like, now, it's only up to me how funds are being allocated. That's a red flag.

Rachel Hampton (28:27)

Kennedy is not sure how she feels because ordering inventory did take up a lot of her time, which you notice she's busy. But the thing is, Kennedy didn't really mind. Kennedy is one of those people who's just, like, an absolute slut for paperwork. She loved to send a little email. She loved renewing the fire department license.

Yowei Shah (28:51)

Wait a minute. I just love this phrase. You just said a slut for paperwork. I'm gonna steal that. I love that we need the people. We need sluts for paperwork. We need more people to be easy and slutty around paperwork. I'm not one of. And I. We need them.

Rachel Hampton (29:12)

Yeah. She actually really only joined leadership because Clara had needed a hand with the admin work. And ordering inventory was one of Kennedy's favorite tasks. She got to listen to a little podcast and shop on someone else's dime. And this is why Kennedy kind of starts to get that feeling in her chest. You know, you get when you feel like something might be starting to go wrong. But everyone else thought Grace's rationale was just fine. So Kennedy's like, maybe I'm just overreacting. And, you know, somehow Grace seemed to have found some room in the budget, because right after she takes over ordering inventory, some fancy new snacks start appearing in the firehouse.

Yowei Shah (29:52)

Interesting. Like, what kind of snacks?

Rachel Hampton (29:55)

I'm so glad you asked. We're talking spindrift. We're talking Himalayan sea salt popcorn. We're talking goji berries and things labeled cacao instead of chocolate.

Yowei Shah (30:08)

Oh, my God. This is the good shit. Okay, this is, like, tech industry level snack. Okay, where are they getting the money for this? This is a volunteer operation. I understand treating your workers well, but these people aren't even getting paid. So, like, maybe start there, you know, before spending on Himalayan popcorn.

Rachel Hampton (30:32)

Kennedy is not exactly complaining, because who doesn't love a fancy snack? I mean, she's like, ah, how Bad could it be? But that feeling in her chest returns when she's suddenly taken off scheduling, which she's also been responsible for for the past two years. If ordering inventory was one of Kennedy's favorite jobs, scheduling was her absolute favorite. She had inherited this monthly scheduling tradition from the previous assistant chief, where one Sunday a month, she would get the whole crew together for a big at the firehouse. And everyone looked forward to it. Which means that morale on the crew takes a sharp drop when, without warning, Grace says that Sunday dinner isn't in the budget.

Yowei Shah (31:13)

Oh, because you're spending on the snacks.

Rachel Hampton (31:16)

The fancy snacks do remain. Grace also has a new idea for scheduling that she wants to implement. So the shifts everyone worked used to be 48 hours. And if you're on call for your shift, that means that you have to be within 10 minutes of your car. So no hiking, which is a big deal on Island. It means that you can't drink any alcohol. Makes sense.

Yowei Shah (31:36)

Yeah.

Rachel Hampton (31:37)

And it also means that you need to have childcare lined up in case you get called in. So if you get a call during work, then you're expected to leave. But all of that changed when Grace unilaterally changed the shifts from 48 hours long to a whole week long.

Yowei Shah (31:52)

Oh, shit.

Rachel Hampton (31:54)

And Grace's justification is that this new schedule allowed more people to be on call at any given moment so that they would never be understaffed for a fire. This causes a lot of grumbling because finding childcare on an island of 2,000 people for a 48 hour shift was hard enough. But a whole week?

Yowei Shah (32:11)

Jeez.

Rachel Hampton (32:12)

It's at this point that I would personally have done a mutiny. But then I have to remember that half the fire department is either a Williams or married to one or related to one. And they're all so proud of Grace for being chief. None so much as Grace's father, Elijah. Elijah Williams has been volunteering for the fire department for as long as Kennedy has been in town, but he has never been in contention for chief because Elijah is kind of the fail son of his generation of Williams. Oh, no. Which includes the island's lawyer, four out of the seven members of the islands town council, and several prominent businessmen. Meanwhile, if you remember, Elijah manages some shitty summer rental properties. He doesn't even own them. They belong to his father, Grace's grandfather, who plans to will them to Grace when he dies. And not Elijah.

Yowei Shah (33:08)

Oh, because Elijah can't even be trusted. Damn.

Rachel Hampton (33:13)

Yeah. Elijah's one redeeming quality is that he loves his daughter more than anything else in the world. He is so, so proud of Grace. Which is. But also means whenever someone starts complaining about all the new changes that Grace is unilaterally instituting on the fire squad, Elijah will just start loudly talking about how he just always knew she'd do something great. And did you know she made the dean's list every semester in college?

Yowei Shah (33:42)

It should be outlawed that anybody talks about the dean's list after you graduate. Period.

Rachel Hampton (33:48)

I agree. But despite the long arm of the Williams family, Kennedy still wouldn't live anywhere else. She loves her husband that she met on the island, one of the few locals who somehow, blessedly, is not in any way related to the Williams. They do exist. Kennedy loves their adorable preschooler even though he's going through a sleep regression right now. And Kennedy and her husband are being driven slowly insane from sleep deprivation. Which is maybe why Kennedy doesn't care about anything at the fire department enough to be cheap. She just wants to avoid another Eunice Williams barn fire. And even though all of Grace's changes are annoying, none of them are dangerous or feel personal. Do you think our friend of a friend is being wise here? Do you think Kennedy is right in thinking there's not a lot to be done right now?

Yowei Shah (34:38)

Now that I know about the sleep deprivation, I'm like, Kennedy. The red flags are adding up. I totally feel for Kennedy.

Rachel Hampton (34:47)

Yeah. And Kennedy, she doesn't have any real plans for rebellion in mind until the town council meeting. Every month, she and Grace have a meeting with the town council, where they give little reports and requests to increase the budget for the fire department. A couple days beforehand, Grace had told Kennedy that she was planning on asking for an increase to her stipend since her responsibilities had increased. Both the chief and the assistant chief get stipends because they're leaders, so they get a little bit of extra money. So Kennedy wasn't surprised when, halfway through the town council meeting, Grace makes a case for increasing her own stipend. What Kennedy is surprised by is Grace's response when one of the councilmen asks her where the funds for her increased stipend should come from, because Grace suggests decreasing Kennedy's stipend to make up the difference.

Yowei Shah (35:43)

Snake in the grass. Wow. That's a bold move.

Rachel Hampton (35:49)

Kennedy's jaw drops. Even some of the Williams on the town council look shocked at Grace's brazenness. And they do that thing that people do in, like, polite company, where they're like, that won't be necessary in the moment. Kennedy is deceiving because even though they don't decrease her stipend, they do agree to include increase graces because we're still in a Williams world. Huge news. Our dowager queen Kelsey McKinney wrote a new York Times best selling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called you Didn't Hear this from Me, Mostly True Notes on Gossip and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and West Elm, Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can Also go to KelseyMcKenneyBook.com to see all retailers One of my absolute favorite things about spring is the feeling that the world is opening back up. I'm no longer feeling tied to my apartment. I feel like I want to go out and explore. I feel like I want to get on a train or a plane or even a car. Vacation season is nearly upon us. This year I am treating myself to the luxe upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices like lightweight European linen styles from $30, washable silk tops and comfy lounge sets. The best part? All Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quint cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. I got this gorgeous leather bag from Quinn's. It's big enough to not only carry my laptop, but a water bottle, at least two books, several snacks. Basically, it is the absolute perfect carry on bag. Whenever I have it, I never worry that I'm going to run out of space or that I left something behind because I put everything in there. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints, go to quinn's.com gossip for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com gossip to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com gossip something that I recently learned about myself is that I have a really, really bad habit of subscribing to newsletters exactly one issue and then keeping that subscription going for perpetuity. Basically, thanks to Rocket Money, I'M learning to break this habit. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. With Rocket Money, you can see all of your subscriptions in one place and know exactly where your money is going. For ones you don't want anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them. The Rocket Money dashboard is just so easy to use. I'm obsessed with it. There are so many apps that I use that just don't really have the best interface, and Rocket Money is very easy to understand. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.comGossip today that's RocketMoney.comGossip RocketMoney.comGossip A month passes in a sort of uneasy stasis, but Kennedy is on high alert, especially when the next town council meeting comes around. Grace has got a new idea. A new idea she is run by no one else in the department. Grace's new idea? The creation of a deputy chief position to be below Grace, but above Kennedy. Why? Well, because Grace's right hand needs to be able to do everything that Grace can. And at first Kennedy is like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then she realized that Grace is proposing Kennedy basically be demoted because Kennedy doesn't want to drive the fire truck. And the thing is, Kennedy would actually be willing to hear that out because she will literally never drive the fire truck. And there are a whole host of qualified people on the crew who can drive the fire truck who will be great deputy chiefs. But guess who Grace suggests? Elijah Williams.

Yowei Shah (41:28)

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Rachel Hampton (41:30)

The fail Son of the Williams clan. Kennedy briefly wonders whether she is hallucinating, but reality reasserts itself when the town council starts seriously considering Grace's proposal. Luckily, the proposal ends up being vetoed for a lack of proper detail, but it's vetoed without prejudice, which means that Grace can flesh out her proposal and present it again at a later meeting.

Yowei Shah (41:55)

Wow.

Rachel Hampton (41:55)

Kennedy leaves this meeting and tells everyone on the squad who wasn't a Williams and even a few Williams who happen to be cool. Everyone's in shock. Kennedy cannot believe how fast morale has deteriorated. Coming in for Sunday dinners with the crew used to be one of the highlights of her month, and now she just constantly prays that she never gets Called in. And on some level, her prayer is answered, because under the guise of fleshing out her deputy chief proposal, Grace makes a document outlining what firefighters and lead firefighters were allowed to do while on call. You might be asking what separates a regular firefighter from a lead firefighter. I'm so glad you asked. Largely, it came down to whether or not you could drive the fire truck.

Yowei Shah (42:39)

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel Hampton (42:40)

What this new document meant in practice is that Grace and her father and a few other select firefighters, who mostly happen to be Williams, got to do the glam room of cutting ribbons and kissing babies, rescuing cats from trees and things of that nature, while the rest of the crew had to do the grunt work of scene cleanup, hauling, like, the heavy, heavy hoses, clearing out BlackBerry bush, which was endemic to the island and just a huge fire hazard. So that was a huge part of their job. How do these jobs sound to you? Which one would you rather do?

Yowei Shah (43:13)

I mean, cutting the ribbon sounds fun.

Rachel Hampton (43:17)

Kissing the babies. Yeah. Around Thanksgiving, Grace imports a purebred dalmatian for photo ops, and it somehow becomes part of the crew's responsibility to care for it because it's their mascot.

Yowei Shah (43:30)

Okay, this is too much.

Rachel Hampton (43:32)

While the crew is running around washing the fire truck and cleaning up after the dog, Grace is posting photos with her dad, Elijah, that are captioned with my favorite firefighter.

Yowei Shah (43:43)

Damn. She's becoming, like, a firefighter influencer.

Rachel Hampton (43:47)

Yes, exactly.

Yowei Shah (43:48)

You know, like, she just wants to, like, look like she's doing all the glamorous work. Like, let me take photos, Let me post on social media. But, like, making other people do all the work.

Rachel Hampton (43:59)

Correct. One day, both Kennedy and Grace are on call together, and they get called out to a house fire. Let me just say, so no one gets scared. This is still normal gossip. It's not normal disasters. No one's gonna die.

Yowei Shah (44:11)

Okay?

Rachel Hampton (44:11)

Thank God Kennedy is expecting a little kitchen fire, since that's typically what they're dealing with on the island. But as they round the corner, Kennedy can see these big plumes of black smoke. Oh, no. Her heart drops. Her adrenaline starts pumping, and it's maybe in this heightened adrenaline state that allows her to recognize that the house they're pulling up in front of is none other than the house of Grace's idiot boyfriend, Sam.

Yowei Shah (44:42)

Oh, no.

Rachel Hampton (44:45)

The island was introduced to Sam a year back when he was trying to cross the channel between the island and the neighboring one on a paddleboard during a huge storm, and he got stranded on a rock.

Yowei Shah (44:59)

What?

Rachel Hampton (45:00)

So every single island emergency service had to be deployed in the rescue.

Yowei Shah (45:06)

Oh my gosh.

Rachel Hampton (45:07)

So Sam now also works for Grace's father as a shitty handyman for the shitty little vacation rentals. And now he has somehow managed to start a fire. So the fire truck comes screeching to a halt in front of Sam's house, sirens blaring, and Kennedy can see that the main house seems fine, but there is a detached garage that backs up against the forest. And there's just smoke pouring from under the eaves of the garage.

Yowei Shah (45:33)

Oh, shit.

Rachel Hampton (45:34)

Kennedy looks around, waiting for Grace to leap into action. Have you ever been sent into the flight part of Fight or Flight at the absolute worst moment possible?

Yowei Shah (45:46)

I don't think I have. I've been in the freeze part quite a lot. That's my go to stress reaction.

Rachel Hampton (45:52)

Grace has the same one. Grace just freezes.

Yowei Shah (45:56)

Ay, ay, ay.

Rachel Hampton (45:58)

Later, Kennedy learns that this was actually Grace's very first real fire.

Yowei Shah (46:03)

What?

Rachel Hampton (46:04)

But in that moment, Grace is like, someone has to do something. And Kennedy's like, grace, you have to do something. And the crew is like, based on your detailed flowchart, we are not allowed to do something until you tell us to do something. Meanwhile, the fire is spreading. It's leaping into the BlackBerry bush that Sam has not trimmed from his yard, even though the fire department has sent out so many notices to the island about trimming BlackBerry bushes on private property. Eventually, Elijah, who also is on call, takes charge as the only other lead firefighter, and they get the fire put out. There's a hole in the roof. The whole garage smells like smoke in a way that Kennedy knows is going to take months, if not years, to get rid of. But overall, the garage is gonna be fine. Grace spends the whole time sobbing over Sam, who is completely fine. If Kennedy suspects a little stone, it's while the crew is cleaning up the scene, which is one of their only duties they're allowed to do without supervision, that they finally figure out what caused the fire. Sam, genius that he is, had blown a fuse trying to use a microwave and a toaster oven at the same time in the detached garage, which, by the way, was absolutely full of partially charred snacks. Snacks that look just a little bit familiar.

Yowei Shah (47:39)

No, wait, the fancy snacks.

Rachel Hampton (47:44)

Correct. Kennedy is looking at some spindrift that she remembers unloading into the firehouse, along with a giant half melted plastic jar of peanut butter pretzels that she's pretty sure had gone missing a week back. Kennedy's like, is this snack embezzlement?

Yowei Shah (48:00)

Oh, my God. Caught in the act. This is so Delicious. This is so delicious.

Rachel Hampton (48:08)

The crew starts gossiping on the ride back to the fire station, which also happens to be when Grace finally stops, like, shaking, crying and throwing up and starts yelling, why did no one do anything? Do you have a. I'm really mad, but I'm not gonna show it. I'm gonna be calm voiced.

Yowei Shah (48:27)

Oh, well, that's how you know I'm really angry.

Rachel Hampton (48:31)

Can we get a demonstration?

Yowei Shah (48:32)

Okay, let's see. Rachel, who I'm going to talk to you like, I'm totally calm, but I'm actually seething.

Rachel Hampton (48:45)

Yo way I'm scared. When does his voice come out?

Yowei Shah (48:50)

I mean, it really only comes out with my husband Kyle, when he's really fucked up.

Rachel Hampton (48:59)

So something in Kennedy kind of just snaps when Grace starts yelling. Maybe it's the specter of snack embezzlement. Maybe it's the fact that they all just spent hours cleaning up the mess of Grace's stupid boyfriend. Whatever it is, it just makes Kennedy go berserk. And by berserk, I mean she puts on her mom voice and very calmly and methodically explains how Grace's changes to the organizational structure of the fire department had led to that day's crisis. Kennedy is so calm, so methodical, that the rest of the crew just starts slowly nodding their head in agreement. By the end of her speech, even Elijah, Grace's father, is mumbling something about change being implemented in increments. Wow. And Grace may be young and perhaps stigmatized, but she's not stupid. She's like, you know what? Fine. And she agrees to do a thorough review of her recent changes. And at first, Kendi thinks it's the power of her mom voice, which, to be fair, is very powerful. But later, Kennedy learns from one of the cool Williams that the family was not pleased with Grace's choice of boyfriend or that he had embarrassed her so thoroughly. So all of that explains why, a few days after the fire at Sam's house, Grace promotes everyone who has served on the fire department for longer than a year to lead firefighter, which at that point is basically everyone. Another reason Kennedy suspects she's giving crumbs is because Grace had been stuck going on call two weeks out of the month because every crew needed a lead firefighter, and under Grace's previous plan, there were so few of them.

Yowei Shah (50:45)

Right, Right.

Rachel Hampton (50:47)

So this quells some of the tension, as does the approach of Christmas. And Christmas on island is truly something to behold. Everyone just puts their whole backs into decorating. The island's tree lighting ceremony is one of Kennedy's favorite moments of the entire year. It is so gorgeous. So she's just returned from the tree lighting ceremony. She's in a great mood. She knows she has some cookies at home from a neighbor when she checks her email. And she receives an email, one that she receives every single year from the town bookkeeper that details the fire department's finances. Except something is different this year. This year, Elijah Williams is cc'd on it. And at first, Kennedy actually doesn't think a whole lot of it because there are so many Williams who are in positions of power in the town. Yeah, emails get swapped all the time. You mean to send it to williams1mail.com and instead you send it to williams3ahoo.com. It happens all the time. So Kennedy just responds back to the town bookkeeper like, happy holidays. Lovely seeing you with the tree lighting. You've got the wrong Williams cc'd here. And the town bookkeeper responds like, I don't think so. As deputy chief, Elijah Williams needs to be cc'd on these emails going forward. Kennedy's like the math lady meme. She's like, running calculations in her head.

Yowei Shah (52:15)

Oh, shit.

Rachel Hampton (52:16)

It had been months since Grace originally proposed the creation of the deputy chief position that had gotten vetoed. And Kennedy hadn't really heard about it since.

Yowei Shah (52:27)

Right.

Rachel Hampton (52:28)

Kennedy is like, it's time to do an investigation. It's time for me to put on my Sherlock Holmes hat and go investigation mode. And by investigation mode, I mean she calls one of her best friends, another nurse at the doctor's office, who also happens to be the island administrator. Small town. And the island administrator had access to the minutes of every single meeting the town council has. So she's able to find out that a few days after the fire at Sam's house, Grace had not only gone back to the town council with a new deputy chief proposal, she had gotten approval for the deputy chief proposal. After Grace got approval for the deputy chief proposal, Grace told the council that she'd already offered the job out to the whole crew, and everyone turned it down. Except one man, Elijah. Wow.

Yowei Shah (53:26)

Grace is playing dirty.

Rachel Hampton (53:27)

Kennedy kind of just blacks out for a second. She's so done with this shit. This child is ruining her life. She has one child in her life, and that is her preschooler and she's not dealing with anymore. So Kennedy tells the town administrator that no one on the crew had been offered the position, which was paid, by the way, one of the few paying positions on the crew. Kennedy says, not only were we not offered this job, none of us were aware that it existed.

Yowei Shah (53:55)

Mm.

Rachel Hampton (53:56)

The town administrator tells Kennedy that not much can be done right now because of the holidays, but that Grace will be called in for a meeting with the town council as soon as business opens back up after the new year. We're almost at the end of the story. How are you feeling?

Yowei Shah (54:11)

I'm still thinking about the snacks.

Rachel Hampton (54:14)

The Himalayan sea salt popcorn.

Yowei Shah (54:16)

The Himalayan sea salt popcorn. The peanut butter filled pretzels. Grace is going down. That's what I'm crossing my fingers for. Otherwise, there's no justice in this world.

Rachel Hampton (54:28)

Well, luckily, we do have a pretty sick conclusion from our friend of a friend who told us that as soon as business opened back up after the holidays, Grace was indeed called in for a meeting with the town council. Technically, Kennedy, as next in line, should have been at that meeting. But the Williams wanted to keep Grace's Ms. Deeds as private as possible, so the meeting was closed to the public. But that wasn't the only meeting Grace had to attend. About 75% of the fire department, the non Williams half, and then the contingent of cool Williams were not happy once they heard about Elijah's elevation to deputy chief, not least because he is a failson at many things. And the non Williams plus Cool Williams had enough of a majority to call for a series of crew meetings with Grace to discuss her blatant act of nepotism. Yes, except during these meetings, Grace refused to discuss her blatant act of nepotism. She said because of ongoing negotiations with the town council, she wasn't allowed to discuss the future of the deputy chief position. The crew's like, that's okay. We want to talk about the past of the deputy chief position. As in, how the fuck did this happen without any of us knowing about it? But somehow, these meetings never really went anywhere because Grace would just spend her time shitting on the town for lack of vision and budget mismanagement.

Yowei Shah (55:57)

What?

Rachel Hampton (55:58)

She'd grumble about not being appreciated. Look at all the paperwork she digitized. Look at all the snacks she upgraded. Someone in the back mumbles the snacks that were at Sam's house. And the thing is, there were still enough non cool Williams at these meetings that they could easily derail them. Which meant that after every single one of these meetings, 75% of the crew would have another meeting huddled in the parking lot, where they tried to figure out what they would do next. Does this just sound like the beginning of a union drive?

Yowei Shah (56:31)

It really does.

Rachel Hampton (56:33)

But luckily or unluckily, it didn't get that far. Before they can sign their union cards, there's a morning where Kennedy is kind of just, like, puttering around her kitchen, getting ready for the day, hanging out with her kid, who's at the stage where they're starting to pretend how to read. Kennedy's phone chimes, and it's a text from someone on the crew that contains a Facebook link and the eyes emoji. The link sends Kennedy to Grace's Facebook page, where exactly 24 minutes prior, Grace announced her resignation as chief of the fire department.

Yowei Shah (57:03)

Oh, my God. Oh, shit.

Rachel Hampton (57:06)

According to Grace's Facebook status, the reason she quit wasn't because her crew was planning to unionize against her. Kind of was because Grace says she's quitting because everyone's been so mean to her and she just couldn't work in this sort of environment where innovation wasn't prioritized. And besides, Grace said the town just refused to fund the fire department properly, and she was fighting an uphill battle. She could not put any more of herself into a thankless job. What do you think of this? Wow.

Yowei Shah (57:39)

The organizing got the person in power to just fold. She sounds like a tech leader who has been found out and is on their way out.

Rachel Hampton (57:48)

Low key, giving Elizabeth Holmes.

Yowei Shah (57:49)

I know, I know, I know, I know. That's so delicious.

Rachel Hampton (57:54)

Kennedy is caught between, like, relief and disbelief. She scrolls through the comments, which are just a litany of Williams being like, you did the best you could and you've always thought too big for this town. And then there's one comment from Grace's grandfather, Noah Williams, who Kennedy is actually pretty fond of. He's one of the cool Williams in town. Grandpa Williams comments. Congrats on getting into University of Washington, sweetie. So proud of my future lawyer. I thought that's why you were quitting.

Yowei Shah (58:28)

Oh, my God. So that's why she's leaving. Well, at least she'll be gone.

Rachel Hampton (58:37)

Yeah. Yeah. We have one more postscript from our friend of a friend. Do you want to hear it?

Yowei Shah (58:42)

I would love to.

Rachel Hampton (58:43)

So our friend of a friend says that she wound up stepping up as chief, but another one of her friends became co chief with her. Her friend can deal with the equipment, and our friend gets to deal with the paperwork. She gets to be a slut for paperwork. She says she's still co. Cheap and loving it. Elijah quit, also in a virulent Facebook post after a town meeting because he was mad that they didn't thank the fire crew enough at the meeting.

Yowei Shah (59:16)

Wow, he's got some deep wounds.

Rachel Hampton (59:20)

That's the end of our story.

Yowei Shah (59:21)

Oh my God, what a thrill. What a thrill. That had everything. Snack embezzlement, union organizing, nepotism and we.

Rachel Hampton (59:33)

Have a really enticing addendum from our friend of a friend who writes if you like the setting of the island but aren't sure this one is a good fit. I also have a story about a school principal trying to shoot a ghost so let us know if you want to hear that.

Yowei Shah (59:50)

There's a lot happening in Island. Clearly we all need to go visit.

Rachel Hampton (59:56)

Island life is clearly popping off Foreign thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us@normal gossipefactor.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend@supportnormalgossip.com you can follow the show on Instagram and Twitter TikTok ormalgossip. You can follow me on all social media Eydanae H E Y Y D N A E this podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley Ricks and J Tol Vieira. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal gossip are Alex Sujong Laughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Alex sujong Laughlin is Defector Super Supervising Producer. Tom Ley is our Editor in chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show Art thank you to Katherine Shue, Brandi Jensen, Louise Paz Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford and Ray Ratto for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collective we owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host Rachel Hampton and remember you didn't hear this from me.

Yowei Shah (61:27)

Radiotopia from PRX.