The Bro Never Dies with Josh Gondelman

Summary

Normal Gossip Podcast - Episode Summary: "The Bro Never Dies with Josh Gondelman"

Release Date: November 6, 2024

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Introduction

In the episode titled "The Bro Never Dies," the "Normal Gossip" podcast welcomes guest Josh Gondelman, an author, TV writer, and stand-up comedian. Hosted by Kelsey McKinney, the episode delves into a humorous and intricate narrative about college life, friendship, and the quirks that make relationships both challenging and endearing.

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Segment 1: Setting the Stage

00:00 - 03:21

The episode begins with a brief interlude from Alex Sujong Laughlin discussing the podcast's affiliation with Radiotopia and a fundraising drive. Kelsey McKinney then introduces herself, shares personal updates about her upcoming book tour, and encourages listeners to subscribe for additional content. She introduces Josh Gondelman, emphasizing his background and previous appearances on the show.

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Segment 2: Josh Gondelman's Perspective on Gossip

03:21 - 05:17

Josh reflects on his evolving relationship with gossip since his last visit. He notes an increase in both positive and negative gossip and underscores the importance of having a well-rounded understanding of individuals, especially in professional circles.

• Notable Quote:
  • Josh Gondelman (04:22): “I think it's important to know the kind of whisper networky... like, someone they've been cruel to these people.”

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Segment 3: Introducing the Story of Crystal, Bam, and Spencer

05:17 - 33:08

Kelsey and Josh embark on a detailed storytelling session centered around three main characters:

1. Crystal: A college senior embarking on her final year with a blend of confidence and naivety.
2. Bam: Crystal's charming date with peculiar living habits.
3. Spencer: Bam's roommate who struggles with somnambulism (sleepwalking).

Key Plot Points:

• The First Date: Crystal meets Bam, enjoying a seemingly perfect date involving drives, walks, and casual conversations. However, Bam's apartment reveals oddities like zip-tied cabinets and a locked fridge, sparking Crystal's curiosity.

• Meeting Spencer: On their second date, Crystal meets Spencer, who appears normal but shares the apartment with Bam. Spencer's sleepwalking issues lead to humorous yet concerning situations, such as midnight snack mishaps and accidental messes.

• Developing Relationships: Over multiple dates, Crystal becomes close to both Bam and Spencer. She appreciates their deep friendship and attempts to help Spencer overcome his self-consciousness about his condition.

• The Party Incident: A pivotal moment occurs during a party hosted by Spencer's high school crush, Natalie. Spencer fakes an asthma attack to avoid interacting with Natalie, leading to comedic misunderstandings and frantic efforts by Bam to cover for his roommate.

• Resolution: With Crystal's support, Spencer gains self-confidence and honesty becomes paramount. They navigate the aftermath of the party, leading to personal growth and stronger bonds among the trio.

Notable Quotes:

• Kelsey McKinney (08:24): “You're never going to be able to be sneaky with your sexual choices if at the end of every orgasm, you shout your own name.”
• Josh Gondelman (19:03): “I can't move... I've pretended to have an asthma attack. Why?"

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Segment 4: Themes and Insights

33:08 - 59:58

Throughout the narrative, several themes emerge:

• Friendship and Loyalty: Bam and Spencer's unwavering support for each other illustrates the strength of their bond.
• Self-Confidence and Personal Growth: Spencer's journey from embarrassment to self-assurance highlights the importance of self-belief.
• Communication and Honesty: Crystal's role in encouraging openness emphasizes the value of honest communication in relationships.

Josh Gondelman offers reflections on these themes, emphasizing how supportive friendships can lead to significant personal development.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Gondelman (57:20): “I think Crystal knows what she's in for. I don't think she was wrong to leave.”
• Kelsey McKinney (59:52): “Do you have any final thoughts on this story?”
• Josh Gondelman (60:12): “I'm happy that Spencer gave himself the gift of believing in himself with the help of his friends.”

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Segment 5: Conclusion and Final Thoughts

59:58 - End

As the story concludes, Crystal and Bam move forward with their relationship, while Spencer continues his path of self-improvement facilitated by his newfound confidence and support from Natalie. The episode wraps up with Josh expressing his appreciation for the characters' growth and the heartwarming nature of their friendships.

Kelsey McKinney thanks Josh Gondelman for his participation, highlighting the episode's blend of humor, relatable college experiences, and meaningful life lessons.

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Final Reflections

"The Bro Never Dies with Josh Gondelman" masterfully combines comedic storytelling with insightful reflections on friendship and personal growth. Through the charmingly flawed characters of Crystal, Bam, and Spencer, the episode explores the complexities of young adulthood, the importance of support systems, and the humorous side of navigating relationships and personal challenges.

End of Summary

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Note: All timestamps correspond to significant moments within the episode to provide context and enhance the summary's comprehensiveness.

Transcript

[Alex Sujong Laughlin]

Hey there, it's Alex. You may have heard at the end of our episodes the phrase Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia, but maybe you don't know what that means. The media industry is kind of garbage right now, and it is harder than ever for independent creatives to own their own work, get paid for their work, and to make a living off of their work. Radiotopia is trying to make that possible for more independent creators. They're really great partners for us and we have been so happy to work with them. Every year, Radiotopia does a fundraising drive and right now we have a goal of reaching 2024 donors and maybe one of them is you. Your donations in the fall fundraiser go into marketing, ad sales, technology, and it also makes it possible to bring on new shows in the future. So maybe your next favorite podcast is just around the corner. If you are a Normal Gossip or Defector subscriber, that is different. If you donate during the fall fundraiser, you'll get a link to a curated list of all Radiotopia producers favorite things. As a token of thanks, I included something in there. You will never guess what it is. If you're listening to this episode right now, you are already supporting the work of Normal Gossip, Defector Media and Radiotopia. But if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia Fall FundRaiser, visit Radiotopia FM, donate to learn more and add your name to the list of awesome listeners who support independent podcasts. Thanks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real a few little quick items of business before we move into this week's episode with a dear friend that is such a delight, I cannot wait for you guys to hear it. The first thing is that I have a book coming out which is very exciting. You can preorder it wherever you pre order books. And I'm going to go on book tour which is really exciting and I promise it won't be boring and it will be very fun and you can get tickets for that at Kelsey McKinney book.com. the other thing is that if you are desperate for gossip and you are sliding into our DMs, like why aren't there more episodes, please? I need more episodes, please. My family is dying. If I don't have any more gossip, I'm not going to live any longer. Have you considered becoming a subscriber? You can become a subscriber to normal gossip at support normal gossip.com and you get all sorts of cool benefits, one of which is a monthly bonus episode. Um, in next month's subscriber episode, we're going to be talking about some Hallmark movie I haven't seen called the Spirit of Christmas, which is about a ghost question mark. Um, so can't wait to do that. But you also get all sorts of other things, like access to our newsletter, advanced tips on when we're going on tour, all sorts of stuff. It's very exciting. That's Support Normal gossip dot com. Okay, enough business. Please welcome back to the show Josh Gondelman. Josh is an author, TV writer and standup comedian whose new comedy special Positive Reinforcement is coming out soon. You may also remember Josh from the Season 1 episode about the person who fakes being a marathon runner. Josh, welcome.

[Josh Gondelman]

Hello, Kelsey. I'm so delighted to see you and extra delighted to get to record a podcast with you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Josh, has your relationship with gossip changed at all since the last time you were here?

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like I've been getting a little more gossip lately because I. I really went hard and was like, on. On the podcast previously. Yeah, people don't tell me the good gossip, and I feel like that's true. I don't know whether I've been seeking it out more assiduously or whether people know about me that, like, I do want to hear the gossip.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow.

[Josh Gondelman]

So I feel like I'm getting mostly the fun stuff and then occasional, you know, part of the gossip. You cast a gossip net and sometimes you hear things that are less fun. But that's. I would again, would rather know if there's bad stuff to be known.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because the last time you were here, you kind of emphatically said up top, like, I'm only really interested in, like, possib positive gossip. So I wondered, like, has your. Now that you're receiving more gossip, has your opinion on that changed?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, well, I think it's maybe I was remiss to neglect the fact that I think it's important to hear the tough stuff, too. To be like, oh, I should be aware of kind of a 360 view of this person that's maybe in my life or in my professional sphere. And so I am. If this was not something I believed then or if it was something I didn't consider then, I do want to be on the record now saying I think it's important to know the kind of whisper networky, like, oh, this person, like, you Know, they. They've been cruel to these people and, like, it's just something to know before you, like, seek out collaboration with them or whatever. I think that's like a really. A really key thing. And again, I think it's like dude to dude that doesn't always get spoken, you know? You know?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, the bro sip network amongst dudes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Between bros. That's kind of my. Yeah, I'm.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So that's your sweet spot.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's to get. Yeah, it's to get former fraternity members to become therapists and treat other bros. And so. And I always feel very trusted when stuff like that is told because I think this is like, you know, there's gossip with like, where the soundtrack is like upbeat music and you're chatting and Gavin. And then there's gossip where it's like the very special episode music and like, you know. Yeah, I understand the difference, but I think they're both valuable.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Now that people are giving you more gossip, what format are they giving it to you in? Like, are you getting voice memos? Are people pulling you over on the side of the street? What's the. What's the deal, stranger? They're like, oh, my gosh.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Extry, extry.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Printing out a gossip newsletter just for you to hand to you.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Z.

[Josh Gondelman]

Gossip zines. God, I hope. I really was hoping to see you. I only printed one copy. I was either going to give it to you or to Steve from Blue's Clues because he looks just like you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Josh.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I heard that you brought a gossip for me.

[Josh Gondelman]

I did.

[Kelsey McKinney]

From your new gossip gathering.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Could I have it?

[Josh Gondelman]

Of course.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. Great.

[Josh Gondelman]

So this, this is. I've heard this through several different sources.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Josh Gondelman]

That there's like a male pop star.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Josh Gondelman]

Whose energy is like fairly pleasant, let's say. Like, that's their. That's their vibe as an artist. It's not like a. They don't have like a horny energy as a performer.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. Okay. It's giving friend.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not. So we're not talking someone in the mode of like the weekend. Right. Who you're like, oh, man, this guy just sings to pass time till he can fuck.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Big Frenergy. And I don't know what his romantic situation is, whether they have an arrangement with a long term partner or whether they, you know, whether this is like they are having unspoken romantic engagements. But this person is out and about.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sensually.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. So not out and about sexually.

[Josh Gondelman]

Not. Not just, you know, they're not just Ribbon cuttings.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they're out and about, sitting very close to someone at the bar. Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And when they have romantic encounters.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, no. I'm so scared.

[Josh Gondelman]

You should be. When they reach what I would call to be, you know, to be family friendly. The top of Sex Mountain.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Josh Gondelman]

They ejaculate their own name from their mouth.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, they just belt it out to the rafters.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The full name, Full legal full name.

[Josh Gondelman]

First and last name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's still bad even if it's your first name, but it's worse if it's your first and your last name.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's crazy. Like, I. Okay, I have several things to say here. The first is, like, assuming this person, as you said, is, like, in some kind of relationship. Like, maybe that relationship is open. We don't know the details of that.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. I try not to judge things like that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. But even if it is, it's like you're never going to be able to be sneaky with your sexual choices if at the end of every orgasm, you shout your own name. Like, who else would be shouting your own name?

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like. And this is. This is going to sound like telling on myself, which it isn't at all, but I feel like when you are a famous person who is having, like, kind of romantic entanglements, in the parlance of Jada Pinkett Smith, and it's like, maybe a little like, it's not something you necessarily want out on the town. You've got to be. You've got to be capable at sex, but you can't be eccentric.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Special.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, you can't. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

You've got to do a good job because you don't want the stories getting out that, like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

This guy. This guy's dick is backwards.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's on backwards.

[Josh Gondelman]

But you can't. You can't be doing, like, wild, eccentric things because that's gonna make it onto a podcast.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's also kind of wild to me because, like, celebrities love NDAs, right. It's like they're, like, so horny for NDAs. They're like, this is my favorite piece of paper that ever exists. Makes them.

[Josh Gondelman]

Makes them sing their own name to sign.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly, exactly. But I'm like, getting someone to sign an NDA doesn't, like, prevent this. Right. Like, telling your friend, when I had sex with this person, they yelled their own name is, like, just on the table for the taking. Right. Like, you have to know that they're going to be telling people that.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, for sure. And it's Especially. Yeah. It just feels. It feels like a real own goal.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It really does feel like an own goal. It feels like you're, like, trying to get caught in some way, or you're, like, trying for this rumor in particular to get out, which is extremely strange.

[Josh Gondelman]

So it's so silly. And it's like, if I achieved peak sex first, and then I.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like that's gonna. That's not gonna help me. That's not conducive to the other. Like, that's like. I'm like, what's that? Oh, it's like moisture being wicked away. Like a. Like a Nike tech suit.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I had not considered that. That this is a situation in which it is possible that your partner is still wishing to continue having sex and you have just shouted your own name.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, maybe, right? Like, maybe if. I guess if you're like, okay, they can't possibly. There's. There's. They. They must be right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right. Full over. We're done with sex.

[Josh Gondelman]

They're. They're done. And then you're like, well, I don't know. I feel like I want to celebrate a job well done.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. But, yeah, it is kind of like. It's like chanting. Try to get a stadium to chant your own name. Right. Which. And it's like, that's not really how it works. Like, the stadium has to choose to chant your name. You can't, like, force them via coercion. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

I guess, like, because I. Again, I'm being so gross on this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Podcast, but I feel like it's rare that you're gross.

[Josh Gondelman]

I know, but I feel like when a. When someone who has a penis has an orgasm, that's the celebration. That's like, when you dunk, you don't then pick up the ball and kick it into the stand. You've already dunked the.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Kicking it into the stance feels like the right metaphor, though, because it's like, this adds nothing. It's maybe hurtful. And also, why are you doing it?

[Josh Gondelman]

It's definitely confusing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Everyone in the stadium's like, huh, we liked it when he dunked, but that was. I don't know about that part.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. In fact, a dunk was cool to see, but I probably wouldn't tell someone about it. But then when I kick that into the stance.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow, Josh, thank you for bringing this to me.

[Josh Gondelman]

You're welcome.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And also to all of us.

[Josh Gondelman]

Truly my pleasure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The thing is, this is, like, kind of an apt beginning for this, for us to have discussed all of these things, because, like, the story today is like, going like bro to bro. We're going bro mode.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm. Look, I'm ready. I'm a broken book.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. Okay. Josh, are you ready?

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm ready.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Our friend of a friend. Today, we're going to call her Crystal. And Crystal is in college. She's at the beginning of her senior year. And you know when you're a senior in college, you have this, like, unearned confidence. Like, you're the biggest fish in truly the smallest pond.

[Josh Gondelman]

Totally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're, like, old enough to drink legally, but you're also still an idiot.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. When you're a senior in college, you can be like the booze hero at a party.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right. You could be like, yes, I brought the Babs.

[Josh Gondelman]

I know. I just sounded like fucking Dennis Hopper and blue Velvet. Like, Babs, blue ribbon. Um, but that's like, that's what being a college senior feels like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And it is the first semester of senior year. So you're not, like, staring down the barrel of adulthood. Right. It's still all fun and games.

[Josh Gondelman]

A psychologically perfect time.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. One night, Crystal sees this guy on campus and he invites her on a date. As college kids do.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so she goes on this date and they, like, they drive around. They go for a walk in a big park, they hit a drive through. It's like a very cute, casual first date.

[Josh Gondelman]

This story. Meeting just on a quad, going to a drive through. This is gossip from 1957.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Well, it's not my business, but their conversation is great. She's like, this is really surprising. Right. Like, we're really getting along. We both like, like, physical humor. We both like the same fast food hamburger. We have, like, different majors and interests. But he's, like, so cute to Crystal.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sweet.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, his smile is like the first firefly you see in the summer.

[Josh Gondelman]

What? Wow. Is Crystal poet laureate or young laureate? She's. This is from Amanda Gorman.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's also like, corny hour. Right. Like, she's like, I look at him and I feel like the center of the universe.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's so cute.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. You're a family man and you love love. Do you think that this can be enough to fall in love with someone?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, I do. Think it can be enough to fall in love with someone? I don't think. I don't know that it's enough to like move in with someone. But I like, I think there is a beautiful quality to like falling in love and enjoying it for as long as feels wonderful.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Crystal also thinks this and she's like, this is a great first date, right? Like I'm feeling really good. There is something I forgot to mention and that is that the guy that she's on this date with is named Bam. Bam, B A M. Okay, is it a nickname? Is it initials? Is it based on like some kind of action he does? All of this is unclear. Crystal on the date is like, why Bam? And Bam's like, what? And Crystal's like, why are you called Bam? Like why does everyone call you Bam? And he's like, well, that's what everyone calls me.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's God tautology on the first date.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. She's like, whatever. This guy's name's Bam. That's not my business. I guess at the end of the date, Bam is like, do you want to go back to my apartment? And Crystal's like, yes, great. You were once a 21 year old boy. What is a 21 year old boy's apartment?

[Josh Gondelman]

Like, horrendous. No shelves. Everything is bed, desk, floor, maybe closet. But that's how stuff it's like at best for me. It's almost still true as a married person that like the best you're getting out of me is well manicured piles.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Crystal has like seen her Fair share of 21 year old boys apartments, right. It's not her first rodeo. She knows to expect laundry on the ground. She knows to expect dirty dishes, like last semester's textbooks in a pile in the corner. Some roommate playing Xbox too loud. A navy sheet, right? She's like, I'm aware of all of these things, right? She's like, I expect it to smell faintly of like sweat and Fritos and three in one shampoo.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yep.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She has never seen anything like Bam's apartment. At first this apartment seems like kind of normal, like clean even. There's like nothing out. Everything is put away.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But it's like there's no rug, there's no upholstery.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The couch is like covered in like grandma style plastic.

[Josh Gondelman]

Weird.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it's like as if a 21 year old boy tried to childproof an apartment. Like the cabinets are zip tied closed.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The fridge has a chain around it with a lock. It's like they got all Their design stuff at the serial killer store. Are you concerned about this apartment?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. There's something that feels off. Right. Especially you can't get into the refrigerator. So, like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

This feels like a place that, like, it's not your place. It's a place that you can bring someone when you don't want them to see your place. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Interesting. Crystal feels like a kind of clammy chill when she sees all of this. She's like, like, why is the oven zip tied? Like, why are all these doors locked?

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Why do you have so many zip ties? And Bam's like, oh, it's my roommate's thing. Crystal's like, I don't know if the roommate thing is a sufficient answer for me.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But she's like. She's like, whatever. I'm having a great first date. I too, am 22 years old. She goes into Bam's room, and Bam's room is like a totally normal boy room.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So like, clothes on the ground. They're just like cups everywhere.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She notices that he's, like, still carrying, like, the extra fast food burger that they got at the drive through.

[Josh Gondelman]

Nice.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, oh, are you gonna put that in the fridge? And he's like, no. It's like, got a combination lock. It's a whole thing. I like, I'm not gonna do it.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is wild. This is so. It's such a funny contrast, too, because he's living so, like, normal dude of like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'll just, you know, maybe I'll want it in an. I'll leave it on my desk.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

But like, outside the room is like, you know, this isn't like how people live. Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is strange. Horrible.

[Josh Gondelman]

I love Crystal's beautiful, pure heart to be like, see this and be like, I'm so charmed by this gentleman. Or have seen so much worse in an apartment that, like, this still qualifies as terrific first date. Because I think I meant to say this earlier, but, like, zip tie on the oven, combination lock on the fridge. Sorry. To quote a Morgan Wallen song, I imagine. But that. That feels like when it starts to be like, oh, we were having a great first date. Now we're having, like, an okay first date.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Crystal's kind of like, we close the door. We don't see the zip tied.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Cabinets and the combination lock fridge. And maybe everything's fine. And sure enough, things are fine. They bang.

[Josh Gondelman]

Great. They bam.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They bam. It's like, very good for her. And she's like, stunned. She's like, our chemistry is just really good. Like, this is all very surprising to have a great first date. She goes into Bam's little, like, ensuite bathroom and she texts her friends, and she's like, am I afraid to let love in? Because I'm like, with this guy, and it's been such a great date, but his apartment is so weird.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And her friend's like, weird how? And she's like, I don't know. It's just strange. There's like, zip ties everywhere. And her friend is like, I think you should leave. Like, I don't think you should stay overnight in a place filled with zip ties. Like, that's not a good vibe. And Crystal's like, okay, I'm not gonna leave, actually, because I like him.

[Josh Gondelman]

You can like him and you can leave.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's so true. Crystal does not leave. She spends the night. But it's like, once she decides to stay over, she realizes that there's, like, only one pillow.

[Josh Gondelman]

Tough.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so she's like, bam, there's no pillow for me here. And Bam's like, oh, shit, sorry. And he, like, goes into the living room, and like 15 minutes later, he comes back with, like, a second pillow, but it's, like, flat. And so she sleeps, like, restlessly, tossing and turning.

[Josh Gondelman]

You said. Look, I'm not gonna say I've never been this guy. But when you find the Sir. The air stats surrogate pillow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's your pillow. Be a gentleman.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow. Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Let a lady have the bed pillow and you take whatever. The closet pillow or the couch pillow or the one that dives into the oven.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. In the morning, she wakes up, Bam is gone. She's like, it's not my first time to wake up in a bed that once had a man in it and now does. Not sure. She's like, but it's weird because it was a great date. And also it's your bed, right? Like, where are you? She's like, huh?

[Josh Gondelman]

He's locked in the refrigerator.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's been zip tied. No. He arrives a little bit later and he's like, oh, you're awake. And he has gotten a coffee and a croissant for her.

[Josh Gondelman]

Cute.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Very cute. And she's like, the good thing about a boy who's not clean is he doesn't care if I eat this croissant in his bed.

[Josh Gondelman]

And so she does, like, truly bottom five bed food.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. It's so crumbly.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's so flaky. It's. It's like croissant soup from a bread bowl.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Nature Valley bar.

[Josh Gondelman]

Nature. That's also so funny because that's what you would expect from, like, a guy who has the energy of this Bam. That's just like, yes, babe. Brought you a granola and a Celsius. Good morning, babe.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, bam, thank you for the croissant. Thank you for the coffee. She gets, like, halfway through her croissant when she sees him reaching for the fast food bag for the extra burger from the night before. And he's like, I like to have my night burger in the morning.

[Josh Gondelman]

I don't know that this is the first time I've heard that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What?

[Josh Gondelman]

I think.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What? This isn't the first time you've heard that?

[Josh Gondelman]

Like, I didn't quite have the vibe of these guys, but he lives in there. I speak that language. It is a mutually intelligible bromance language. I know guys who have been like, yeah, I bring my fast food, order home drunk. And then, like, I wake up and I'm like, oh, hey, thanks, drunk me. Here's. Here's a room temp burger. Just a burger that feels like the air, but thicker.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. So you would eat this burger?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, of course.

[Kelsey McKinney]

As long as my judge. Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

I. I wouldn't eat it in front of a first date.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, that's a smart. That's a good.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like I would be on good behavior in this situation.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Crystal is like, bam, you cannot eat a night burger. And Bam's like, why? And Crystal's like, you can't leave meat out overnight. Like, it's gone bad. Burgers can't be left out at room temperature. And he's like, oh, no shit. And she's like, no, shit. And he's like, wow. But he does listen to her, and he stops eating the night burger. So she's like, okay, whatever.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow. Never before has I can change him. Born more immediate fruit.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, why didn't you just put it in the fridge? Like, if you had put it in the fridge, I wouldn't be concerned about your, like, stomach dying. And he's like, yeah, but, like, if I put it in the locked fridge, he might be able to get it out of there anyway.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, now this. You're like, who does Bam live with? Is it a wolf?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Crystal's literally like, is your roommate a fucking werewolf? Like, why can't you leave food out? And at this point, Bam responds like he's on trial, like he's been, like, caught in a lie. And he's said too Much. Which does not do much for, like, convincing people not to ask you follow up questions.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's so funny too, because, like, if you're a person who has a locked, padlocked refrigerator so that he can't get it, you have to have an explanation prepared.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so Crystal is like, you know what? Now I'm asking questions, right? Like, now I've got a lot of questions. So she's like, what's your roommate's name? And Bam's like, spencer. She's like, okay, and Spencer eats your burgers sometimes. And Bam's like, sure. Crystal's like, what do you mean sure? And Bam's like, I can't talk about it. And Crystal's like, why? And Bam is like, listen, I really like you and this has been a great first date, but he is my best friend. I cannot just tell you his shit when we barely know each other. It's not fair to him.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's. I think that's like such a wild. Because again, normal questions. This wasn't. This wasn't like, after one day being like, so do you want kids? Like, this is like, we're not going too far down. We're in the physical, like, asking questions about the physical space that you're in.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

This, like, would you still love me if I was a worm? This is like, hey, why does your roommate have an incurable taste for flesh that it's your problem to solve?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, exactly. Crystal, however, thinks this is adorable because she's like, I think it's beautiful. Women have friends.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's. This is the wrong response. This is the first time that Crystal has had a response that I'm like, I. I disagree. I don't. No. He comes home with like a dirty shovel and he's covered in blood and he's just like, where were you? And it's like, I was with the guys, you know, we were doing. I just can't. I can't tell you their secrets.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. On their second date, she meets Bam's roommate. His name is Spencer. He's tall, he's normal, he has soft looking hair.

[Josh Gondelman]

And where are they?

[Kelsey McKinney]

They meet at his apartment. And he and Bam are clearly like just the two best friends who have ever existed.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, they like, immediately are like, let us tell you about how we met, right? And they're like, they're like, we met at the ping pong table in our dorm. Like, we were both high school athletes and we had no outlet for our competitive spirit. And so we played each other at ping pong in the dorm. And then after it was really close and Spencer was like, together, we could take on everyone here.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Bam was like, yeah. And so they did. They beat everyone in the dorm at doubles ping pong.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's good. That's a nice friendship.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Is that enough to create a lifelong friendship?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. I've created lifelong friendships over less.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And ever since, they've been intertwined like two best friends.

[Josh Gondelman]

@ this point, lifelong has only been like three years and one month.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. Yes. They watch the office together. They listen to soft boy music together. They mostly hang out with each other.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

By their fourth date, Crystal is well acquainted with this apartment. And at some point she's like, oh, I need a water. Right? Like. And she's like, all these cups in Bam's room seem dirty. Like, I'm going to go get a water from the kitchen.

[Josh Gondelman]

Now I'm back on board with her instincts. You see a cup away from other cups? That's a dirty cup.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. So she's like, I need a regular cup. And so, like, forgetting where she is, she goes to the kitchen to get a cup. And the cabinets are zip tied. Right? So she's like, bam, I need help. Like, I want a cup out of the cabinet. And it's zip tied. And Bam's like, okay, okay. He comes sprinting over. He like, opens it with a pocket knife. He's like, I got it. And she's like, this seems like really inefficient. Like, do you ever cut yourself with this knife trying to open your cabinets? And he's like, all the time, man.

[Josh Gondelman]

I knew that was going to be the answer. There's no doubt that the answer was going to be all the time. But that's beautiful to me. That's like, sometimes friendship hurts. Like, sometimes the price of friendship is the little cut on your hand when you try to get a cup in the night before you zip tie the cabinet shut. Because otherwise Spencer will, quote, get the cups.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, exactly. And she's like, why do you need these cabinets closed so badly? Like, what is it that Spencer is going to do?

[Josh Gondelman]

My dude is an earthquake.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, exactly. And Spencer is like, here. Right? It's his apartment too. He's here. And Bam and Spencer kind of like look at each other. And Spencer's like, it's my fault. What do you think the confession Spencer has to make is?

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, like, the only reasonable explanation that I can think of is, like, intense sleepwalking and like, sleep activity that where he eats and, you know, creates a mess that he never Deals with and doesn't realize that he's done.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, great guess. That is exactly correct. Spencer has somnambulism, which is the doctor term for having sleepwalking. And the doctor thought he would just grow out of it, but then he just didn't. So he, like, wakes up at night, ambles around, eats stuff, moves stuff, breaks things. And he didn't want to move in with Bam because he was embarrassed about it.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Bam was like, no, man. Like, we're brothers. I'll help you. And so their whole apartment is like, Spencer sleep proofed.

[Josh Gondelman]

God, this is such a. That's really sweet, but it's also like, it also, like, can't be the solution.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. It's like your heart's in the right place, but there has to be a better way to do this.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like, this is the solution of a guy who doesn't know it's wrong to eat night burgers.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And what's funny is Crystal is like, oh, I maybe could have figured that out because, like, on their third date, she woke up in the middle of the night to Spencer, like, rustling and clanging and like, cursing in the kitchen. And then like, beef browning. You know that smell?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At like 3am but she was like, well, that's kind of within the realm of acceptability of behavior for college boys. So like, whatever.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like, I'm coming back for the party and everybody's getting bolognaise.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. And so she's like, whatever. But the thing is, he's asleep when he's doing these things, which is a problem. Right. He, like, manages to unlock the combination on the fridge. She manages to get the zip ties off. And she's like, okay, that explains a lot of stuff. But it doesn't explain, like, why you don't have rugs. Like, you could still have rugs. Why is there a plastic cover on the couch? And at this, Spencer blushes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, this is because of pissing and shitting.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Spencer is like, this is the worst part. And Bam puts his hand on Spencer's shoulder. And it's like, you don't have to tell her, man. And Spencer's like, nah, bro, you told me that she's important. If she's important to you, she's important to me.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is so beautiful.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Crystal is like, I would die for these two dumbest boys I have ever met in my life. Like, I love them. And that Spencer tells her what you already correctly guessed, which is that if he has too much to drink, if there's stuff in his bladder, he gets up and in his sleepwalking, he tries to pee in the wrong places and this is embarrassing and he feels really bad about it.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I understand that feeling.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And Crystal is like, oh no, Spencer. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't. I called you a werewolf and you're like clearly struggling. Like, I didn't mean to do that. And Spencer's like, it's okay, man. Like, don't worry about it. How are you feeling?

[Josh Gondelman]

At this point, I feel very satisfied with their explanation. Their solution seems completely in line with what I know about these people who like to solve problems. Right. Want burger in morning, eat night burger. Spencer doesn't have control of his faculties when he sleeps. So we, we lock everything down. So like they. It all seems. It all seems very reasonable. Like, or not. Yeah, it all seems very understandable.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's not reasonable.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, no, it's not reasonable. It's ridiculous. But it feels like of a piece.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

These guys are cohesive.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I do want to note something here, which is that you can take medications for sodomy, right? Like low doses of antidepressants prescribed by your doctor. Benzos. Spencer has these prescriptions and like this can be controlled if he takes his drugs and doesn't drink any liquids for several hours before bed. But because he is a 22 year old boy, he does not take the pills consistently and he always drinks before bed and so he's convinced that they don't work.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, that's that. See, there it is. That's the rub. And that's where it's like they have this beautiful friendship that transcends piss and shit and cuts on the hands from the box. The box cutter that you have to use to get a cup. But. And even it transcends problem solving.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Yes. So they've just like kind of adjusted this to this life for themselves, which is beautiful in a way. Right. Like they have zip ties and duct tape and those things are waterproof. So I guess whatever.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

After their fifth date, Bam asks Crystal to be his girlfriend.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm rooting for Bam and Crystal at this point.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She says yes. She says, she's like, of course I really like you, Bam. But being Bam's girlfriend is like kind of like having a misbehaved dog. Like, she's like, I love you and Spencer so much, but you both have like a brain disease that makes you be like, I wonder what would happen if we did this? And then you just do it without thinking of consequences. So like once Bam tackled Spencer into a pile of Garbage bags. And then they both had to get tetanus shots. And when asked why he did this, he said, I thought it would be funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is. You have to understand, that's not something I would do. However, I was just hanging out with a friend that I've known since I was 4 years old, and we were talking about another friend who I've known since I was 7 years old. And they went to see the band no Effects on their final tour recently. And they were a little stoned. And my friend saw, like, they started. They, like, launched into a song.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And my friend looks at the mosh pit and goes, I feel like I gotta defend something. And then just runs into the mosh pit. So, like, it's still in there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's in there somewhere.

[Josh Gondelman]

The bro never dies. You just, like, you just put him to sleep and hope he doesn't sleep long.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And the funniest thing about the way that Spencer and Bam are together is that Bam, when he has, like, more than two beers, gets, like a Cheshire cat grin, right? Like, everyone's like, bam's drunk. Like, look at him. He looks so happy. Spitzer never seems drunk. Like, he can be three sheets to the wind, and he just seems totally normal. So like, one time they went bowling smashed on fireball shots. And Spencer was just, like, casually bowling strikes, just, like, absolutely hammered. While Bam was, like, yelling and dancing with grandmas, Right? The seasons change. A few months go by. Crystal and Bam tell each other they love each other. She comes to appreciate Spencer. She's like, he's sweet. He's affable, he's shy. Like, I hate that he's so self conscious about the sleepwalking thing. Right? Like, he's so down on himself. And she's like, everyone loves him. Everyone wants him to overcome this. And she's like, selfishly, I would really like if Spencer had a girlfriend, because then I would have someone to, like, talk to while the two of you are tackling each other into shots.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right, right.

[Josh Gondelman]

While you're. While you're, like, seeing who can let each other slap him in the face the hardest.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. So she's like, spencer, do you want to date any of my friends? But Spencer is like a cliche superhero. He's like, I can't. I can't date anyone close. Like, for their own sake. I have to protect others.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's like, okay, Batman.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, exactly. But then one day, Crystal comes into the apartment, and Bam and Spencer are arguing. This never happens. So she's like, what? What Is going on here. She's like, what's up, boys? And Bam's like, oh, nothing. Just Natalie is having a party.

[Josh Gondelman]

Ooh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Crystal's like, who's Natalie? Natalie is Spencer's high school crush. She knows how to longboard. She's trilingual. She understands past interference in football, and she has personally invited him to this party.

[Josh Gondelman]

Do they go to college together? And Natalie's also there. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Spencer is still like, no, she doesn't want me there. Like, she just asked me to be nice. And Crystal is like, I don't really believe that. And bam is like, can you show Crystal the text? And so Spencer shows her the text. And the text is like, hey, with like, eight wise. Cannot believe we see so little of each other. I'm having a totally chill party on Saturday. Would love it if you came. Bring Bam. Bring whoever. I'd love to see you.

[Josh Gondelman]

I. This is so. This is smart. I think it's sincere. I mean, it all seems sincere. But to say bring Bam is like, she knows how to get Spencer to go somewhere. You gotta. He needs his emotional support. Bam.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And Spencer to Crystal is like, this is a form text. And Crystal's like, oh, just. Is everyone that she's inviting to this party has a roommate named Bam? Like, what are you talking about?

[Josh Gondelman]

He's like, oh, are you gonna bring. Is Bam h Gonna be there?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, exactly. And Spencer's like, maybe she just wants bam there. And Crystal's like, I really don't think so. Like, I think she wants you there. All week. They're trying to convince Spencer to go to this party. They're like, come on, man. Like, you can do it. Just, like, love yourself enough to be open.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's so beautiful.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bam is like, spencer's my best friend. I want him to go see his crush and find love. How do you convince Spencer to go to this party? What's your move here?

[Josh Gondelman]

I think bam and Crystal are like, we'd really like to go to this party, but we'd like it if you came with us. It would be more fun if you were there too, because you know Natalie better than us. But, like, we would really like to go to a party tonight.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's what seems like a really reasonable thing to do. What bam does is go. I dare you to go.

[Josh Gondelman]

And this is enough at ribs.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, that checks out because they love dares. So the three of them go to the party.

[Josh Gondelman]

Dude, you won't.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, exactly.

[Josh Gondelman]

A kid I went to high school who just walked through the halls just being like pointing at people like, you won't kid. And it's like was never. The referent of what you won't do was never declared.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He just you won't.

[Josh Gondelman]

He would just say it all day long.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, are you ready to go to this party?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

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[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bam is like hyping Spencer up the whole time, right? He's like, you're going to be the hottest one there. She's going to love you. Maybe you'll kiss, maybe you'll fall in love, Maybe you'll spend the night. And Spencer is like, no, we're not going to try and stay the night there or kiss her or anything like that. And Bam's like, maybe you will. Maybe you might. They get to the party, Natalie comes straight to Spencer and gives him a big hug. So they're like, it seems like she likes you. Spencer's like, no, she doesn't.

[Josh Gondelman]

Spencer, he's closing his heart to possibility.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I, I feel an ache for him. A pain.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The main event at this party is beer pong, which obviously Bam and Spencer love. So they have to wait like a long time to get their turn because you have to wait for like people to lose.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah. You know, so it sounds like they're well versed in all the ping pong arts, right? If there's a ping pong ball, these guys will take you on, right? If it's like ping pong, beer pong, ping pong ball eating competition.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. They would win 100%. Around 10, Crystal gets a text from her roommate who's at some club where everyone is dancing. And she's like, I'm just standing at this party watching Bam and Spencer wait to play beer pong. So she's like, bam, do you care if I, like, bounce for a bit and go to a club with my friend? And Bam's like, of course not. Have fun. And she's like, you're good here. And Bam's like, yeah, we're totally good now.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's no adult.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. It's like, they're free.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's no one to corral. There's no Bam and Spencer Whisperer.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. I, like Bam and Spencer, have been alone together a lot for many years. So, like, they'll live, but it's like, who knows what they're going to do, right?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? I mean, this is like anything edit college party unless you come from great tragedy and heartbreak when you're at a party like this, you're like, well, as long as I'm within the confines of the party, I will never Die.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Crystal is like, I'm going to the club. Bye. She goes to the club, she dances. She does a few shots. She's having a blast. She does not look at her phone. Around 2am she's like, I'm done dancing.

[Josh Gondelman]

Good. Time to finish.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Yeah. She goes outside, she looks at her phone. She has 15 texts from. Bam.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's a lot. And that, that's like an ongoing situation. Right. If there's like one burst of scare, it's like five text max, and then that's more. But this is like, hey, would love to hear from you. You know what I mean? Like, just follow it up.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Like, if I walked out of a movie and had 15 texts from anyone that wasn't in a group chat, I would be like, oh, no. Right?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yep.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Here are the texts. 105, miss you.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sweet.

[Kelsey McKinney]

107, going great. Natalie talking to Spencer. Eyes emoji.

[Josh Gondelman]

They're on fire.

[Kelsey McKinney]

110, we won again. 115, we won again. In all caps.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, this is. Now we're starting to get troubling because now you picture the smile. You're like, even if you're winning, he's not. They're not. It's not pitching a shutout. Right. So they've been drinking some beers as they're getting ponged.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At 116, she gets two text messages. One of them says, OMG, Natalie making eyes at Spencer. The second says, oh.

[Josh Gondelman]

That sounds like Spencer has unhinged his jaw and swallowed Natalie Whole.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At 1:17, in all caps is a text that says, spencer left.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Then There is a 15 minute break. At 1:34, she gets a text that says, wow, I cannot run anymore.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's such a funny text to get from someone you were not aware was running.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

That sounds like what you say, like 30 seconds before the terminator catches and murders you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. At 1:45, there are two messages. So 10 minutes after. Wow, I can't run anymore. She gets JK, I'm good at running again and was just tired or something.

[Josh Gondelman]

This guy rules.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At 146, she gets two more messages. The first, you are not gonna believe this. The second, I'm laughing so hard I'm gonna die. At 1:48, she gets, oh. At 149, she gets help.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At 150, she gets. Spencer is lost in all caps. Call me when you get this. All of these texts are from within 45 minutes of each other.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. The whole range of human emotion.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. There are also texts on Crystal's phone. From an unknown number.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And there are two of those. And that. The first text says, hey, this is Natalie. The second text says, bam said to text you for help if you're Crystal. And the last text that she's gotten is only 10 minutes before she's seeing this. Right. So she's like, I'm not that out of the loop. What do you do if you're Crystal here?

[Josh Gondelman]

Call him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. She calls him. It goes straight to voicemail. She's like, this is not surprising. Bam's phone is always dead. But it is concerning, Right? So she calls Natalie, right? Because she's like, natalie is in my phone now, I guess. So she calls Natalie, and she's like, hey, it's Crystal. I called Bam's phone, but I think it's dead. Like, can you put him on? And Natalie's like, oh, he's not here.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He took Spencer home. She's like, spencer had an asthma attack. And Crystal's like, oh, my God. I didn't know that Spencer had asthma. And Natalie's like, yeah, I. I really hope he's okay. Like, can you let me know if he is when you find out? And Crystal's like, yeah, of course. Crystal is like, all right, well, now I'm not going home. Now I'm going to Bam at Spencer's because I want to know what's going on here. She goes over there. She lets herself in. She's a key. They're both in beds, asleep. She goes into bed. Bam's bed. And she's like, hi. And Bam's like, oh, hi. I'm so glad you're here. And she's like, is Spencer okay? And Bam's like, oh, yeah, he's drunk as. But I put him in his sleeping bag. Like, he's going to bed. And she's like, what happened tonight? And he's like, I'll tell you in the morning. And she's like, okay. They go to sleep. They wake up at noon.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bam makes coffee. They're drinking it when Spencer comes out of his room, and he's, like, kind of holding his head, and he's like, oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed. I can't believe I blew, like, my chance with this girl that I had a crush on for ages. And Bam's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, what are you talking about? And Spencer's like, natalie texted me, and she said. And he reads it off his phone. How are you? Are you okay? Do you need anything? I'm worried. And Spencer's Like, I'm so embarrassed. Like, what did I do? Did I fall asleep there? Like, was I bad? Like, did I sleepwalk everywhere and eat all her food? And. And Bam is like, do you not remember last night? And Spencer's like, my dude, not at all. And Bam's like, oh, my God. And he's, like, clearly thrilled. He's like, I mean, you should be embarrassed probably, but not for the reason you think, wow.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, first of all, we are crushing it. Beer pong.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I hate how mind melded you are. Because he begins to proceed to tell both Spencer and Crystal what happened the night before. And he's like, crystal, after you left, we got onto beer pong. We played six rounds. We won all six. Bam and Spencer, high five.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is irrelevant part of the story.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's like, we lost one round. That was devastating. Spencer goes, no.

[Josh Gondelman]

The stakes have never been higher.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Crystal's like, I don't care about this park. Like, keep going. He's like, after the loss, we got kicked.

[Josh Gondelman]

To know he has to know he was a legend.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Bam's like, but then when we weren't playing beer pong anymore, Spencer could talk to Natalie. And I was like, oh, that's great. I was like, spencer, you should go talk to her. Like, you should ask her if you could stay the night. And Spencer was like, why would I do that? And Bam was like, well, we don't want to walk all the way back to our place drunk. That's a perfect excuse. And Spencer's like, but, you know, I can't spend the night. And Bam's like, I would have your back. Spencer at this point had been nervously drinking for hours. So he's like, I just want to go home. Right. Like, Natalie is beginning to flirt with me. I am scared. And he leaves.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yep.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is the first time when Bam texted. Spencer's gone.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yep.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bam waits because he's like, spencer, I'll be back. But like, 15 minutes later, Spencer is not back. And so Bam is like, ah, shit. And so he goes after him and he jogs, and he is so tired. And at this point, he stops to text Crystal and is like, I'm so bad at running.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yep.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Then he catches up with. And Spencer is like, why are you running? And Bam's like, you have to believe in yourself, man. You have to believe in love. Like, you have to give yourself a shot. And Spencer is like, I love you, and I'm obsessed with you, but, like, I'm too scared.

[Josh Gondelman]

And Spencer, I think at this point, tonight's not the Night. He's too drunk. He's in his head.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's not happening.

[Josh Gondelman]

And, yeah, it's not gonna happen. And he's. I don't think he would have a nice time if he went back and tried to talk to her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bam at this point, has his Cheshire cat smile on, and he's like, I know how to fix this. And in mischief mode, he's like, I dare you to ask her out. And Spencer's like, no, no, I'm not doing a dare about this. It's too much. You're Bam. Your dare usually works. It has not worked this time. What else could you do? You want to go back to the party, and you want Spencer to go talk to Natalie.

[Josh Gondelman]

You. You could physically drag him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, that is an option. Okay.

[Josh Gondelman]

It doesn't feel out of the question for these guys. You could. You could, like, ask him. You know, you could be like, bro, this means the world to me as a bro. Bro to bro. Or you could. You could reach out to Natalie and try to get her to help ensnare Spencer to go back to the party.

[Kelsey McKinney]

All great options. What Bam does is he goes, I'll race you back to the house. If I get there first, I'm telling her that you want to go on a date with her.

[Josh Gondelman]

Good. This is better than my options.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Spencer considers this for a moment, and then he takes off back toward the house at a full sprint.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This surprises Bam. Bam loves it. He bolts off after him. They're now in a race. We've got a foot race back to the house.

[Josh Gondelman]

House.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bam eats shit on some stairs at the campus. And so he loses a bunch of time.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, that's.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Spencer is beelining for the party. He has no plan. The only thought in his drunken brain is that he has to get to Natalie first so that Bam won't tell her that he has a crush on her. He's running. He pulls ahead. He bursts through the door. Like Kramer and Seinfeld are like the Kool Aid man. Bam is, like, coming up behind him, but by the time Bam gets there, everyone in the party is silently staring at Spencer, including Natalie, who's just like, yes. Katy Perry's California Girls is playing at.

[Josh Gondelman]

Full volume, and he's not very California girls right now.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. Bam at this point texts Crystal that actually he can run after all, which is good. Yeah. How would you play this? You've burst into the apartment at full speed. Your crush is there. You only now realize that you had no plan for once you arrive.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, I think I would be Like, I went to get some air. Bam bet me he could get back to the. Bam found me and bet me he could race me back to the party. Don't tell the other stuff because you don't have to tell the other stuff.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What Spencer does is have an asthma attack. Except the thing is, Spencer does not have asthma.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So everyone is like, is this poor idiot gonna die in our apartment? Right? Like, they're like, he can't breathe. Someone help him. Natalie is so concerned, she, like, runs over. She's like, bam, what's wrong with him? And Bam's like, I don't know. Like, I don't know what's going on here. And Spencer, like, trying for the Emmy, uses a raspy voice to be like, asthma.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think I've got the black lung pods.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Bam is, like, losing his mind. He's like. Like, spencer does not have asthma. As he's telling this in the kitchen the next morning, Spencer is just going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Josh Gondelman]

This. This is the only time in this part of the story that I think Bam has made a mistake. Because it's like, you gotta. You've. You got to confirm your bro's alibi.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, and he does. Bam is a fucking thespian, and he's like, oh, no. He's having an asthma attack. He's like, natalie, te. Text my girlfriend. Hurry. This is her.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow. Oh, wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe bring his inhaler. There is no inhaler. Meanwhile, Bam is like, you gotta get it together, man. Like, you gotta sit down and you gotta breathe slow. So Spencer does this. He sits down. Some nursing major, like, brings him coffee and is like, they say caffeine can help and an asthma attack. And Spencer and Bam, they don't know if this is true or not. So Spencer just, like, drinks the coffee anyway.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure. Right. They don't know. They don't know how to solve this fake problem.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

They're just like, I heard you got to let someone kick you in the throat. Like, I guess that's what we're doing now. I don't know otherwise.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So after he's drunk the coffee and they've decided that it's been a sufficient amount of time, they're like, we've got it under control. Like, he's. He's. We've managed his attack. And Natalie's like, oh, my God, I'm so glad. Like, I was so worried. Like, I don't think you guys should walk back. Like, he just had an asthma attack. I really think you should stay the Night. Wow. Bam is elated by this.

[Josh Gondelman]

Of course.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Spencer mortified. Mortified. And he bolts.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, that's good.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At this point, Bam is laughing so hard he can't breathe. And everyone is like, you need to go get your friend. Like, he was just having an asthma attack, and now he's running, and Bam's like, you're so right. So Bam chases his him home.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's great. This is, like, what it would have been like to date Travis Kelce while he was in college.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's just. But he has that, like, when people talk about his, like, kind of, like, exuberant puppy dog energy. It's like, this is what that looks like until you focus it into, like, you have to, like, have car insurance and stuff.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We are almost at the very end. How do you feel? Whose side are you on?

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, I feel like everybody's doing their best here, but I think Crystal knows what she's in for. I don't think she was wrong to leave. She wasn't having a good time at the party, was having a better time dancing. I think Bam, his heart was in the right place, but he was misguided to try to trick Spencer into flirting back with Natalie. Hammered.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Also after forcing him to sprint. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

After forcing him to sprint, Spencer was. He made the mistake of lying about the asthma attack. But I feel like this is 50 50. A lie that you can explain away and just be like, I was so drunk and embarrassed. I said this because I was, like, huffing and puffing and race Bam. And then you parlay it into. Because blah, blah, blah, blah. That's. That's the gambit that I would attempt if I was 22.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And that I think would have worked. Spencer is, like, smacking himself in the head because he's like, I fucked with so bad. Like, I pretended to have asthma. I never made a move. I don't remember any of this at all. And it sounds hilarious.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is like drinking blue Gatorade when there's a lemon lime right there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. And Crystal is like, I don't really think you fucked it up that bad, because I talked to Natalie on the phone last night, and they're both like, what? And she's like, yeah, Bam, your phone was dead. So I called Natalie to make sure you weren't both dead. And I was, like, worried. And Natalie was really worried about you. Like, she seemed to really care. Crystal's like, so I think if you play this right, this could be great for you. And so she helps him craft a text to, like, ask Natalie to get coffee. Right. Like very low stakes. And he and Natalie went to get coffee and they did end up dating and they dated for eight months. And the whole time Spencer pretended to have asthma.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, no, you can't, you can't. You can't keep the. You've got to ditch the lie because it's not a cute lie. No, it's not like, oh, yeah, I said my favorite movie was your favorite movie. So we go to that movie together. This is like, you're scared for my life every time I go. And, and that's, that's too. The stakes of the lie are too high.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. They broke up. Not because of the lie, just because it wasn't like it was good for eight months and then it wasn't. But during that time, Natalie, like, gave him some self confidence. Right. Because Spencer was like, oh, I like, dated this really cute girl that I had a crush on for a long time and it didn't work out. But, like, that means that I, like, am at least kind of cute. Right. And this helped because once he had a little self confidence in himself, he started taking his medication and he turned into a brunch boy so that he could stop drinking before bed.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow. This is like a. This would make a beautiful children's book for, for 19 year old. Like a picture book for 19 year olds.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And that is beautiful to me. Do you have any final thoughts on this story?

[Josh Gondelman]

You know, I hope they all continue to grow and learn and, and look within.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I think their friendships are so beautiful.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I'm like, I'm really, I'm happy that Spencer gave himself the gift of believing in himself with the help of his friends.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think this is so. This is so nice.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I'm really upset to have learned that you would eat a night burger, but otherwise I had a great time. Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, I'm about to be on the road for three nights in Denver and it's like, it is. All bets are off.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's like hours.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. I mean, even if I had an unpadlocked refrigerator, a refrigerated burger.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, Josh.

[Josh Gondelman]

Tastes worse than a room temp burger.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is so upsetting. I hate, I hate this.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's not a goal. It's not a goal to eat a night burger. I'm just saying I would eat a night burger still.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Josh, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure to have you.

[Josh Gondelman]

Thank you for having me. It was such a joy to get to Gabby.

[Sarah]

Thank you for listening to normal Gossip if you have a gossip story to share with us, email us@normalgossip defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP if you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] you can follow the show on Instagram and tick tock at Normal Gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at McKinney Kelsey this podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Laughlin, Ozzy, Lina Goodman and Jay Tolviera. Justin Ellis is Defector's project's editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Alex Sujohn Laughlin is Defectors supervising producer. Tom Lay is our Editor in Chief. Abigail Siegel is our Internet. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show. Art thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandi Jensen, Sabrina m, Blur, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Ratto, David Roth, Catherine Hsu, Jasper Wang, Israel Daramola and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Sarah and remember you did not hear this from me.

[Josh Gondelman]

Radiotopia from PRX.