The Problem Is Certain Death with Allegra Frank

Summary

Podcast Summary: Normal Gossip – "The Problem Is Certain Death" with Allegra Frank

Podcast: Normal Gossip
Host: Rachel Hampton
Guest: Allegra Frank
Episode Date: January 7, 2026
Episode Theme: Historical mountaineering chaos, friendship antics, and the accidental birth of legend

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, host Rachel Hampton welcomes friend and fellow culture editor Allegra Frank to dissect a wild, reader-submitted historical gossip story from the 1970s Australian mountaineering scene. The tale, full of bravado, questionable decisions, and slapstick misfortune, revolves around two climbers, Jono and "Big Rob," an ill-fated party stunt, and the unexpected alliance of glass, gravity, and gin-drunk bunco ladies. The episode’s main purpose is to explore how the wild energy of youth, a little alcohol, and a desire to impress can lead to legendary chaos—and sometimes even to love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Allegra’s Relationship with Gossip (03:07–11:38)

• Rachel asks Allegra about her connection to gossip. Allegra recounts her early days as a "Baby Whistledown," chronicling classmates’ activities on Zanga.
• Allegra's secret blog was discovered after she used someone’s full name; this led to minor middle school mayhem and a close call with losing her best friend. She jokes, “now I just don’t put it on the internet” (09:29, Allegra).
• Notable Quote:
  “What did I learn? I just don’t put it on the Internet.” — Allegra (09:29)

2. Setting Up the Main Story (14:46–16:28)

• Rachel introduces the historical gossip, noting her preference for stories from bygone eras: “Tell me what your grandparents did. I want to know what Thomas Cromwell was getting into.” (14:24, Rachel)
• The main saga centers on Jono, his friend Big Rob, and the 1970s Sydney mountaineering scene.

3. Jono, Big Rob, and the Party—Establishing The Vibe (16:47–18:54)

• Allegra is shown a photo of the trio and provides a vivid, comical description:
  “Very thick thighs... Three thick-thighed men in calf-length socks. Two of them are shirtless and fairly buff ... one looks like he’s wearing a straight up diaper—but hot.” (16:47, Allegra)
• We learn these attractive, adventurous men are hopeless with women:
  “Despite the fact that they are objectively hot in a feral outdoors... they are both also very single, ... awkward and utterly useless at talking to women.” (18:37, Rachel quoting story submitter)

4. The Party, Mountaineer Flirting, and the Unfolding “Plan” (18:54–26:13)

• At a Kilimanjaro victory party, Rob botches an introduction with Beck, the “coolest girl” with “powerful thighs” and a Ziggy Stardust mullet—rendered speechless by her presence (22:15–22:39).
• As the night progresses and the alcohol runs low, Jono hatches a plan befitting drunken mountaineers: instead of restocking via stairs, they’ll rappel from a fourth-floor window using climbing rope, “no harness, just the rope.” (31:54, Rachel)
• Reaction:
  “Four stories and a climbing rope ... the problem is certain death and brain damage.” — Allegra (32:11)

5. The Absurd Attempt and Catastrophe (32:29–40:48)

• The plan gains enthusiastic support from the party and its host, Locky Webb. Rob is chosen to make the descent, but the impromptu anchor (a bed) slides under his weight, yanking it across the room:
  “Big Rob steps out into the air, and the bed ... flies across the bedroom, through the living room, all the way to the window.” (37:46, Rachel)
• Big Rob is hauled back inside, covered in blood and glass. Miraculously, he survives, and Beck immediately tends to his wounds, picking glass from his beard:
  “Beck rushes over and starts picking shards of glass out of Big Rob’s huge, bushy beard ... Big Rob is just grinning because ... he is finally talking to Beck.” (39:13–39:39, Rachel)
• They discover that Rob crashed not through their own window but someone else’s—in an apartment below, occupied by a group of women in their 50s hosting a bunco night (40:18–40:27).

6. Cover-up, Cop Arrival, and Climber Camouflage (40:48–51:52)

• Rachel and Allegra riff on their real-life response; both would bail, but “some people really wanna see how this turns out. And I respect those people, too.” (41:23, Rachel)
• The group attempts to tidy the crime scene, hides evidence, and waits for the police. Climbers hide in creative spots (rafters, fridge tops), and, in the bathroom, Beck is shaving Big Rob’s beard to foil the cops’ description of the “giant man with a huge bushy beard.” (50:22, Rachel)
  • Notable Moment:
    “Women always gotta fix men's messes… Women in STEM—this is why we invest.” (50:49–51:10, Allegra)
• The police, young and unconvinced by tipsy bunco grandmas’ tales, inspect the apartment, seemingly buy the cover story, but just as they leave, a hidden climber falls from the rafters in front of them. Quick thinking gets them out of trouble again:
  “We’re just practicing for our next expedition.” (52:19, Locky Webb via Rachel)

7. Updates and Aftermath (52:49–55:15)

• The next morning, Jono, Rob, and Locky leave beer money for the window they shattered, deepening the legend for the bunco group—who, it’s said, recounted the tale for decades (53:43–54:09).
• Beck and Big Rob dated for several years; Allegra observes the true love was always between Jono and Big Rob. To this day, the pair are still climbing together in their 70s, “no better at talking to women.”
• Memorable Quote:
  “Their nursing homes do not allow them on any floor but the ground floor.” (55:07, Rachel)

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Notable Quotes & Funniest Moments

• On Being a Lifelong Gossip:
  “Unfortunately or fortunately? Yes. I mean, I think it's because we're writers and we're journalists, so ... I'm sussing out the facts. I'm figuring out the players... and yes, I love a little mess.” – Allegra (03:07)

• Peak ’70s Mountaineering Vibes:
  “It's three thick-thighed men in calf length socks. Two of them are shirtless and fairly buff ... one looks like he's wearing a diaper.” – Allegra (16:47)

• On Party Antics:
  “Instead of just using the stairs to get more alcohol like a boring person, they should repel ... out of the big industrial windows. No harness, just the climbing rope down four stories.” – Rachel (31:54)

• The Mountaineer Motto:
  “These men will ascend an entire block of ice instead of learning how to talk to women at parties.” – Rachel (23:10)

• Poor Planning, Party Edition:
  “And no harness ... the problem is certain death and brain damage.” – Allegra (32:11)

• On Bunco Night Witnesses:
  “A giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars flew through the big bay window, said, ‘Oh no. Oh shit,’ and then flew out again.” – Rachel (45:15)

• Fixing Men's Messes:
  “Women always gotta fix men's messes.” – Allegra (50:49)

• On Mountaineers in Old Age:
  “Their nursing homes do not allow them on any floor but the ground floor.” – Rachel (55:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Allegra on Middle School Gossip: 03:07–11:38
• Story Introduction & Mountaineer Setup: 14:46–18:54
• Photo Vibes & Flirting Fails: 16:47–23:06
• The Rappelling Plan: 31:54–32:29
• Disaster Strikes: 37:45–40:48
• Cover-up and Cop Arrival: 41:23–51:52
• Aftermath & Updates: 52:49–55:15

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Episode Tone & Style

Rachel and Allegra bring a playful, supportive energy, full of vivid scene-setting and sly, affectionate humor. The story is recounted with dramatic flair, and both host and guest openly dissect every development, offering personal asides and mocking the illogical bravado of mountaineering bros—yet always with a sense of camaraderie and delight. The original language is casual, witty, and irreverent, capturing the gleeful absurdity of true (if slightly exaggerated) tales passed down through friends.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode delivers a hilarious, cinematic yarn about how, in the pursuit of love—or at least attention—a group of Aussie climbers organized one party’s infamy, traumatized a bunco club, and forged a decades-long legend of a “wild boar–thighed” man in a bushy beard. It’s a celebration of friendship, misadventure, and the timeless truth that sometimes, the greatest love stories are just about who’s willing to hang onto a rope while chaos unfolds below.

Transcript

[A]

Happy New Year. And why is it a happy new Year? Because you can now binge Gear, the incredible series from our fellow Radiotopia show Articles of Interest Gear is about the intersection between the military and the outdoor industry. Can you believe that they are deeply, deeply interwoven? The military actually affects so much of our current fashion trends, which I didn't know about until I listened to Articles of Interest. But wait, there's more. This year there will be new episodes about tattoos and what they mean for our self expression, about bras and whether or not their technology is outdated. I feel like yes, but I'm willing to wait and see what Avery says. There's an episode about the greatest designer you've never heard of, and a look at what it means to make clothes truly accessible for everyone. Articles of Interest is about clothing for people who don't necessarily think they're interested in clothing. If you're ready to change your relationship with the clothes you wear every day, check out Articles of Interest wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Happy New Year, y'. All. I hope your holidays were full of light and laughter, especially since 2026 is to an eventful start, to say the least. Which I know means y' all desperately need some gossip in your lies. And today's story is actually one of my absolute favorites. Before we get into it, just a little bit of housekeeping today. A light little bit. Mostly just a heads up that now that our break is over, we are officially over halfway through this season of Normal Gossip, which has got four more episodes in it, including this one. That makes today's episode the seventh of the season, which is famously a lucky number. And I feel especially lucky today because my guest is one of my dearest friends, Allegra Frank. Allegra and I go way back. We used to work at Slate together for a while. She was an editor on my old show icymi, where some of y' all might have heard us chop it up together. Currently, Allegra is a culture editor for the Atlantic, but she has written and edited for Vox, but Polygon, the Daily Beast, and the New York Times. Allegra, hello. Thank you so much for joining me.

[B]

Hi Rachel. I'm so excited.

[A]

What a dream we have not recorded together in a hot minute. I feel like I'm coming home.

[B]

It's like a hot hour, girl. It's been a hot Hour hot Hour.

[A]

Hot year. Hot month.

[B]

Hot month. So long. So long. I'm so excited. Truly.

[A]

Same. Even though we haven't recorded in a while, we do talk, I would say pretty regularly, which means that I know that you are a champion of gossip. Every time I see you, I feel like you tell me something that I think about for a month. So I'm so excited to know the answer to this question, which is, what is your relationship to gossip? Have you always been this way?

[B]

Unfortunately or fortunately? Yes. I mean, I think it's because, like, we're writers and we're journalists, so it's like I'm sussing out the facts.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

I'm figuring out the players. I'm packaging it to tell the world. And, yes, I love a little mess, but those are the best stories. It's really just in service of the plot of my life.

[A]

You're right. This is actually a professional development thing that we're doing right now.

[B]

Yes. This is how we got these jobs, girl, from our gossip days.

[A]

Speaking of gossip, a little birdie told me that you have some gossip for me. And again, I know you're a champion gossip Smith, so I'm ready.

[B]

Okay, this one. In the interest of protecting all of my friendships, we're doing a throwback gossip.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

This is, like, where it all starts. Rachel, you're getting a little orange in story gossip here. So when I was in eighth grade, do you remember Zanga? Were you a Zanga girl?

[A]

I was not.

[B]

Okay, so it was, like, sort of livejournal esque. Like, you could do little personal blogs, but you would follow people and you could comment. So it was a little social like that. And I had a Zanga, and I would use it to blog about my day, which was not particularly exciting. But because it was not particularly exciting, I would often draw on things that other people were doing. So I was kind of chronicling what was going on in my grade secretly online. Sort of Gossip Girl esque.

[A]

Yeah. No, I was like, oh, so you're lady whistledown of your 8th grade class?

[B]

Thanksgiving baby Whistledown. And. And because I was, like, very unpopular. Like, no, it's not like anybody was really following this, I thought. And it was just, like, for a couple of my friends. And I would use names because I was like, nobody's reading this except my friends, and they need to know. And I would be like, in eighth period Spanish class taught by, you know, Ms. Senora Smith, Bob would say this today, like, being very explicit and, like, going down the line of, like, here's where I was at this time. Here's where I was at this time. And it was, like, very detailed, but I didn't think much of it. And then one day, I'm like, in class and I see people whispering and looking at me. And usually people don't look at me because I'm like, in the back. I never spoke. I was just like, allegra will remember this. And then putting it on my Zangulator. And then I was like, that's so weird. And then between periods. So after that class, my friend, my best friend, one of my five Zanga readers, was like, girl, I was just in class and people came up to me and were asking me about your Zanga, thinking it was my Zanga. Because we had very similar days, my best friend and I. Yeah. And I was using everybody else's name except my own. I was being a little bit protective of me and my friends, so they thought it was my friend. And they were like, hey, we found your blog. Because I had used. Used someone's full name. There was this kid, we'll call him Chris. And that's a. He was a common name, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had to differentiate that. This was not Chris A I was talking about. This was Chris B. I was talking about one day. So instead of saying Chris B, I used his full last name. And one day, Chris B. Googled himself and found my blog. And he spread it all over the school because he was popular. My school's not that big. And so all these people were reading it. My friend in her class saw people on the Zanga reading it in class, being like, oh, my God, this is creepy. Why was this person writing about the joke I made? Why was this person saying they saw me in the cafeteria? What is this? Like, everyone discovering my little baby Gossip Girl blog. And then they turned and they saw my friend, and they were like, this sounds a lot like you. And like, your schedule was this you. And my friend was like, I didn't do this at all. I had nothing to do with this. But I don't want to tell you who it was because I'm not going to blow up my friend's spot, but I'm not taking the fall. And she told me this, and I was like, but low key, what if you took the fall? Low key, what if you just kind of rolled with it?

[A]

Allegra, you said, what if you fell upon the sword for me?

[B]

Like, I do it for you. She said, lying, you know, like.

[A]

She.

[B]

Said lying, like, I was not about to take ownership because nobody paid attention to me. I was so unpopular. My friend also was unpopular, but like a little, slightly less so. She could take the hit. I couldn't take a hit. So obviously it was quite fraught. So, you know, fast forward. Today we are still best friends. We did weather the storm. But in her recollection, I went on Gaia Online, which was a sort of role playing website. You had an avatar. It was a lot of people would get on there and be very horny. But I wasn't doing that. I was just going on the forums and posting a lot. She's applying. And I went on Gaia Online, which again, my friend was on and would see. And I went on and I was like telling them about this story. I made a thread about this on Gaia and I was like, hey, this happened. My friend doesn't want to take the blame, but I kind of think she should. And I don't even know if we should be friends anymore if she doesn't want to take the blame. And I was posting this on Guy Online. I. I did not learn my lesson that I should not be airing out my laundry.

[A]

You went from making one mistake to making the exact same mistake in a different forum.

[B]

So it's like one thing was like these kids who I didn't really like that much, seeing that I was bloggin about their lunch, that was another thing is my best friend seeing that I'm calling her out on Gaia Online after she saw that, I was like, okay, I need to stop telling the Internet things.

[A]

I guess you said, okay. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. I won't be fooling anyone.

[B]

Three times it was shame on me both times.

[A]

And it was. And it was. I feel comfortable saying that. Allegra. That's so fucking funny.

[B]

And here's the thing, Rachel. I'm here and I'm still gossiping. What did I learn? I just don't put it on the Internet.

[A]

Now what you learned is what I am always championing on this podcast, which is operational security.

[B]

Yes, exactly. I learned this at age 13 in 8th grade. Honestly. Thank you to Chris S. For blowing up my spot so that I would rewrite my course in history.

[A]

Wait, did they ever find out it was you?

[B]

They never found out. The wrong Gossip Girl was what went down in our, you know, the annals of our school history. They never found out. I think one person did, but he didn't tell anybody else. Cause he was like, I think it's you. I'm pretty sure it's You. And I wasn't gonna admit it, so I was like, I don't know. It's crazy. No one else thinks it's me. That's so weird that you think it's me. No one else thinks that at all.

[A]

God, the funniest thing about middle school drama is that there's no logic to the investigation because there clearly two options for who could have done this. And the fact that you weren't mentioned on this blog at all. It's giving the mean girls burn book where it's like, obviously it's her.

[B]

It was like giving mean girls burn book. And also a little bit the Tim Robinson sketch, where it's like, I'm wearing a hot dog costume, guys. And I'm saying, who could have done this? Who could?

[A]

Nobody know the guy who did this.

[B]

We're all looking for the guy who did this. Certainly not me. And they never found them.

[A]

They never found them until today. Someone's gonna be listening to this podcast and they're gonna have a new conclusion to their eighth grade drama.

[B]

Oh, my God. You know what? You're right. What did I learn? I'm blowing up my own spot. This is what I deserve. I knew I didn't even think about that. Wow. God, 19 years later, here we are. Didn't learn a damn thing.

[A]

It's a beautiful.

[B]

Full circle, but yes, now you get to know. I told you and thus the world.

[A]

Allegra, I'm truly so honored. I love that you brought the word zanga onto this podcast and Gaia online. I don't know if those have been uttered in the normal gossip universe. And I'm sure some of our listeners will be, like, pointing at the metaphorical screen, like Leonardo DiCaprio in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood hearing the word zanga in the year 2026.

[B]

I hope the people feel seen. I'm here to represent. I am one of you. We are the Zangans.

[A]

Thank you so much for that lore drop, which actually coincides perfectly with our gossip today. Are you ready?

[B]

I'm so ready. I feel owed.

[A]

You know, my producer has recently started suggesting that I might have adhd. I get very easily distracted. I have a very busy evening. Chaotic lifestyle. I might have something called time blindness. Basically, I'm always looking for ways to make my life easier. And that's why I'm so excited to be partnering with Everyday Dose, which is not just coffee. It's coffee plus benefits. It has collagen, protein, nootropics, and functional mushrooms. And my gut and brain have never been happier. Get the boost you need to accomplish your New Year's resolution. Lion's Mane helps with natural focus, while L theanine keeps the stress at bay. Everyday Dose is the perfect boost you need to accomplish your New Year goals. Right now, get 61% off your first coffee plus starter kit and over $100 in free gifts plus enter for a chance to win $100 cash or get your entire order refunded. Visit everydaydose.com gossip or use code gossip at checkout. So I don't know if you girlies know, but I have ibs. Yes, I am a hot girl with ibs and one thing I learned is that the most stomach friendly bread is actually sourdough. It is one of the things that my nutritionist told me is least likely to make my stomach hurt. And you know who has the best sourdough? Whole foods? Their 365 brand organic sourdough sandwich bread is legitimately one of my favorite things in the world. Like, I have had a lot of bread in my life, so I'm a connoisseur so I can tell you that this bread slaps. And their 365 brand has so many other delicious ready to eat salad kits or ready to heat rice and bean blends to pair with protein and make your life easy. Shop all things wellness at Whole Foods Market. The gossip I have for you today is historical. Vintage if you will. It takes place in the 1970s in Sydney, Australia. Personally, historical gossip is my favorite kind of gossip. Like tell me about the wild shit your grandparents did. I want to know what Thomas Cromwell was getting into. But what about you? Do you have a preference for historical or contemporary gossip? Do you know any lore about your grandparents?

[B]

Ooh, no. I do like historical gossip. Like my parents, I have some good gossip about them and that's fun. So I like gossip of all eras. Really. Parent gossip, grandparent gossip, uncle gossip, aunt gossip, up and down the chain.

[A]

No, literally, get me up and down that family tree. Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, like I said, today's story takes place in the 1970s in Sydney, Australia. And our friend of a friend today is named Jono. The most important thing to know about Jono is that he is very, very into mountaineering. And you might be asking what is mountaineering? If you were asking this question. I also have this question and according to the American Alpine Institute, which is a real thing, mountaineering is the broad art of ascending mountains using a mix of hiking, snow travel, glacier navigation, and sometimes technical climbing. Basically mountain climbing. Anyway, Jono would actually Go on to become sort of a low key legend in the Australian climbing community. Like, he's the kind of guy who isn't a household name to normal people, but he is friends with all the guys who end up in the mountaineering history books. Yes, I said mountaineering history books. They do exist. Now at the time of our story, Jono is in his early to mid twenties and even then his entire life revolves around climbing ships. Technically, he has a day job, but it is all to fund the next big climb. I could describe Jono's vibe, but we have actually got a photo of Jono and his climbing friends that I'm gonna show you.

[B]

Oh, okay. Oh, my God.

[A]

Now, I'm allowed to show you this photo, but not the audience. So I need you to describe in as much detail as possible the vibes of the boys in this photo. Okay.

[B]

The first thought I had was very thick thighs. It's three thick thighed men in calf length socks. Two of them are shirtless and fairly buff. They're all fairly buff. I think all three of them have, I want to say short shorts, but one of them looks like he's wearing a straight up diaper. It's giving diaper. Despite giving diaper, he is still hot. And they're sitting like, what is this, like a trailer or something?

[A]

Who knows? They're outside. They're in the wilderness.

[B]

They're outside in the wilderness and they're guys being bros, I guess, but they're like chilling. It's giving a little bit friends to lovers.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

It could be. Maybe I'm projecting. I can see friends to lovers energy. But yeah, it's three dudes, thick thighed dudes sitting in next to no clothing, except for one in the middle who has a shirt.

[A]

Wow, that was a perfect description. So in this photo is Jono, his friend Big Rob, and another guy who is not important to this story.

[B]

Okay, drag.

[A]

This story which begins when what feels like the entire Australian climbing community descends upon Sydney, Australia. An expedition has just returned from climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and everyone is celebrating. Now, something to know about Jono and Big Rob is that despite the fact that they are objectively hot in a feral outdoors, he, is he housebroken kind of way.

[B]

Exactly that.

[A]

Despite this fact, they are both also very single. And that is because at this time in their lives, they were, and this is a direct quote from our friend of a friend, awkward and utterly useless at talking to women.

[B]

I see that. I can see that quite, quite easily, to be honest.

[A]

Right, right. So the vibe of this crew is basically men with really good thighs in really short shorts who are really bad at talking to women.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now, considering the thighs and the shorts, how much would you say this little deficiency matters, considering the thighs and the shorts?

[B]

Well, as I said, it was giving friends to lovers to me. I don't know how badly they're doing with or without the women, you know, but that said, that said, I mean, the thighs are doing a lot of the work for me. They don't need to talk.

[A]

It's true. The thighs are doing the talking.

[B]

Like I'm fine, I'm so fine if they don't know how to talk to me.

[A]

So this is all really important because today's story takes place at a party, specifically the after party for the celebration of this Kilimanjaro expedition. To be clear, our boys Jono and Big Rob did not climb Kilimanjaro. At least not at this point in their lives. But some of their buddies did. Which I'm told is an event that you celebrate in the mountaineering community. So at this party are Jono, Big Rob and many other members of the Australian climbing community, including many single women. Now, we both live in Brooklyn and work in media. We have been at parties with awkward 20 something year old guys who may or may not yet be housebroken.

[B]

Every party.

[A]

Every party. How do these kinds of guys flirt?

[B]

I feel like they are often talking about themselves. Very confident, unduly so. And you are not getting a word in.

[A]

Yeah. And it's cause they don't know how to ask a question because they're so scared.

[B]

They're too scared. Like faux confidence. And they will not let you talk because as soon as you say something they're like, oh, shoot, I don't know what to say. And she's so much better than me that I ever will be.

[A]

Exactly. You have gotten the vibe perfectly. At the beginning of this party, Jono and Big Rob are just lurking in various corners, sort of like furtively looking over at the girls and mostly failing to talk to them. Until Big Rob spots the single coolest girl he has ever seen in his entire life. She has certainly got the most powerful thighs Big Rob has ever seen in his life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Along with some impressively tight bell bottoms. Cause it's the 70s. Her red hair is cut into a Ziggy Stardust esque mullet Love and Starman is Big Rob's favorite song.

[B]

Oh my God. Perfect.

[A]

So Big Rob immediately makes the beeline over to this woman just like shut shoving his way through the crowd. He joins the little circle of people she's talking to. And then he just freezes.

[B]

This boy. Like, I honestly feel a little bad.

[A]

Yeah. Like, Big Rob just stands there speechless until the woman is like, hello, I'm Beth, and this is the most beautiful name Big Rob has ever heard. So beautiful that he forgets his own name.

[B]

Oh, my God. Big Rob. Come on, please. You're bungling it.

[A]

So after a full five seconds of silence, Big Rob just gives a single nod and then runs away back to Jono, who has been watching this whole thing from across the room. Jono's like, ugh. Not gonna lie. That was hard to watch.

[B]

Poor Big Rob. I mean, Jono's telling him straight, man.

[A]

I know. And I think maybe now is a good time to give a little reminder that these men are regularly doing something called ice climbing, which is exactly what it sounds like. Which is climbing an entirely frozen block of ice. Like, these men will ascend an entire block of ice instead of learning how to talk to women at parties.

[B]

Many such cases. Many such cases.

[A]

So you have made a fool of yourself in front of someone you think is really hot. How do you go about salvaging this.

[B]

Situation just by jumping off the face of the earth? Hello. Duh. Just removing myself from the equation entirely. I mean, okay, I feel like, like, other than that extreme option, I feel like I would find a mutual. Like, I feel like I would find a way in through, like, a comfort friend.

[A]

Yeah, that's smart. That's not what these boys do. Of course not. Jono is like, don't worry, man. The night is still young. And his first step to salvaging the situation is getting properly drunk, because Big Rob just needs a little liquid courage. He was off his game. Cause he was nervous.

[B]

Oh, okay, sure.

[A]

So Jono and Big Rob commence to getting drunk on a truly incomprehensible amount of lager. They're having a great time. They're getting to know other people at the party, including the host, whose name is Locky Webb.

[B]

Of course it is. No. Amazing, amazing work.

[A]

They're trading war stories about, like, frostbite and exposure. They're making plans to climb shit together. It is a great time. The party carries on long enough that everyone is pleasantly drunk. And if I know anything about Australians, it is that their version of pleasantly drunk would have me passed out on the floor.

[B]

Mm, so true.

[A]

Which maybe helps explain how a little after midnight, the party starts to run low on alcohol. Now, there is a shop on the corner a few blocks down, so it'd be easy to run down and go grab some more beer. So easy. In fact, Jono comes up with a better idea. An idea so good that it solves not just their lack of alcohol, but also Big Rob's earlier fumble with Beck.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

That's the perfect reaction. Because before I tell you the plan, what do you think the plan is?

[B]

Oh, God, I don't even wanna say. To me it involves something illegal. I don't. I just think someone's gonna drink too much.

[A]

We're already there, babe.

[B]

We're already there. I don't know. I think someone's gonna just make even more of a fool of themselves. I don't know. I'm scared. I'm scared.

[A]

I'm gonna be so honest with you. There is no universe in which I would have guessed the plan that Jono comes up with. But Jono is thinking on a grander scale than I am. To Jono, this is the perfect opportunity, in fact, maybe their only chance, to so thoroughly impress all the ladies at the party that something as trivial as conversational skill will be rendered unnecessary. One of my New Year's goals is to spend less time thinking about my finances. And I know that actually requires me to put in some work up front, which is why I am so excited to be partnering with Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Rocket Money can track your subscriptions and it has the ability to cancel within the app with a few taps apps, which is incredible for me because I know that if something is not easy, I simply won't do it. And Rocket Money makes things so easy. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] Gossip that's RocketMoney.com Gossip RocketMoney.com Gossip I hear this is the time of year where people are making resolutions. I personally do not believe in resolutions. They scare me. They feel like a lot of pressure and I do that to myself enough. I usually make goals or I guess, intentions. And one of my goals intentions this year is to finally finish moving into my apartment. Yes, I did move in over a year and a half ago, but moving in New York is expensive. Which means that I moved in and was like, okay, cool, furniture's for later and later is now. Which is why I am so excited to be partnering with Wayfair. That is the website I go to as soon as I start looking at a little corner of my apartment and thinking that needs to be upgraded. I actually just put together this beautiful wooden bathroom organizer. It has these magnetic doors that open and close. It looks so good in my space and every time I go into my bathroom I get happy because all of my things are put away. Get organized, refreshed and back on track this new year. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop allthings home that's W A Y f a I r.com Wayfair Every style Every home y'. All. I have to tell you about these leggings I have that I absolutely love. We all know the worst thing about leggings is when they slide down your legs as you're moving and you're just stuck pulling them up all day long. Nothing drives me crazier, which is why I love the leggings I got from Quint's. They don't ride down, they are very thick, they are very flattering and they come in so many different colors. I got this really gorgeous midnight blue that I am obsessed with, so much so that I feel like I need to buy more in that exact same color. Quint's has all the staples covered from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear. Their wardrobe essentials are crafted to last season after season. Refresh your wardrobe with Quint's. Don't wait. Go to quints.comgossip for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, that is Q-U I N C E.comgossip to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.comgossip sleep is so important for your life, for your well being for your skin. I'm gonna be honest, there are very few things in life that I love to do more than sleep. Which is why it sucks when it's hard to asleep because you're stressed out. Osea's Dream collection is all about reducing the visible effects of stress on skin while you sleep. They have a Dream Night Serum and a Dream Night Cream and these are clinically tested formulas powered by Bioretinol Retinol. She's my girl. I love her. Ride or die and osea's newest product has retinol in a full body restorative treatment that visibly distresses the skin with a holistic blend of retinol, red, seaweed and magnesium and lavender. Give your skin a rest with clean Clinically tested skincare from osea. And right now we have a special discount just for our listeners. Get 10% off your first order. Sitewide with code [e-mail]. Locky Webb's apartment is on the top floor of a previously industrial neighborhood in Sydney. Like think Williamsburg before it got gentrified. So these apartments are big with high ceilings and giant windows looking out onto the street. Jono's plan is instead of just using the stairs to get more alcohol like a boring person, they should repel old school style out of the big industrial windows. No harness, just the climbing rope down four stories to the street. And then go get the beer.

[B]

Oh my God. I should have guessed that they're climbers. Oh my God, that's so dumb.

[A]

I'm assuming that you see some problems with this plan. Could you tell me what problems you see with this plan?

[B]

Four stories and a climbing rope.

[A]

Uh huh. Yeah.

[B]

And no harm. Like, hello, the problem is certain death and brain damage.

[A]

If not, the problem is gravity and CTE.

[B]

Yes, I guess it was the 70s, so what do they know?

[A]

It might not surprise you to hear that Big Rob is obsessed with this plan. Obsessed. So obsessed that he's like, I should be the one to go down. Which Jono thinks is fair, considering they're gonna use Big Rob's climbing rope, which Big Rob, of course brought with him to the party. Because what is a party without climbing rope, you know?

[B]

Oh my God. These men. Truly choosing to climb instead of learning how to talk to a women.

[A]

No, literally. Men will do so many things besides go to therapy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The party's host, Locky Webb, is also obsessed with this idea.

[B]

Locky, it's your place. They're gonna be blaming you. They didn't sign a waiver going in.

[A]

Yeah, this is where I should maybe reiterate here, that everyone is plastered out of their minds at this point in the night. Which is maybe how Locky Webb comes up with the genius idea to wrap Big Rob's rope around the leg of the bed in the bedroom. And from there, our boys stretched the rope across the bedroom into the living room, which obviously gets everyone at the party's attention, including Bex.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Our boys then open the big industrial window and dangle the rope down to see if it's long enough. It is.

[B]

No.

[A]

As a test, Big Rob gives the rope a tug. And here's where I feel like it might be a good time to explain Big Rob's whole deal. You see, while our friend Jono is built like A gymnast, like, very slight and muscled. Big Rob is big.

[B]

Okay, so in the photo that you showed me, he was the burly guy in the shirt?

[A]

Mm. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes, he is. Is 6, 3, and 225 pounds.

[B]

Ooh, boy.

[A]

So when Big Rob gives the rope a tug, it pulls the bed a few inches across the room. This obviously poses a problem for Jono's plan.

[B]

Oh, my God. Of course.

[A]

But first, let me explain how Big Rob actually got his name. It might sound like it's because he's big, but it's actually because one time when Big Rob and Jono were 19 and he was known as just Rob, Rob had given Jono the last beer in their six pack, and Jono had said Rob had the biggest heart of any man in the world. And from that day, he was Big Rob.

[B]

That's actually very sweet and also hilarious.

[A]

I know. It's so cute.

[B]

What that was is everybody was calling Big Rob Big Rob behind his back. And then Jono called him Big Rob and was like, uh, no, it's because your heart is big, not because we all think you're giant. That's crazy. A big heart.

[A]

That's so crazy.

[B]

And Jono's like, phew. Okay, secret's safe. Don't worry, guys.

[A]

Solved it.

[B]

Nailed that one. We're good.

[A]

Correct, Correct, Correct. But back to the party, where some problems have arisen with this plan that John O. Has had, and everyone at the party is now staring at Big Rob and John. Oh. So what options do you think our boys have here?

[B]

I think that not going down the side of the building is not an option.

[A]

Why would you say that?

[B]

I think that protecting themselves and just staying inside is certainly not going to be an option because they've already done the work. That's even more embarrassing.

[A]

Exactly. At this point, they've already started, Right?

[B]

They've already started. I mean, Jono could go down, right? He's lighter. Or he could just risk it, because that's cool. And I feel like that's what he did. Is that what he did?

[A]

Well, luckily, our friend Jono is quick on his feet. He's like, okay, ladies first. Let's get as many people as possible on the bed as kind of counterbalance to Rob's weight. Mm.

[B]

Okay. That's smart. Insofar as any of the.

[A]

This is smart. No, exactly. It's important to remember that this is a party full of people who risk hypothermia for fun. And also, everyone is drunk. So about a dozen people jump onto the bed including none other than Beck.

[B]

Oh, okay. Stakes are really high now.

[A]

She's there.

[B]

She's helping.

[A]

Beck smiles at Big Rob as he's tying the rope around his waist. She even wishes him good luck. So everything's coming up Big Rob.

[B]

So far, this is good. I don't know how I feel, honestly, but I'm like, team Big Rob right now.

[A]

At this moment, Big Rob finishes collecting beer money from everyone at the party before hoisting himself up onto the window ledge. Everyone in the party is cheering and waving goodbye.

[B]

That sounds bad.

[A]

Big Rob steps out into the air, and the bed that he is attached to, which, let me remind you, has 12 very muscular climbers on it, flies across the bedroom, through the living room, all the way to the window.

[B]

Oh, no. Surely no one could have expected this.

[A]

No one could have guessed. Yes. From below the window comes the very loud and unmistakable sound of a lot of glass breaking. In a panic, everyone starts pulling on the rope, and it takes a minute, but they're all climbers with strong arms, so they manage to pull Big Rob back up relatively quickly. He crawls through the big window and sits on the floor covered in blood and glass, looking very dazed.

[B]

Oh, my God. This has been like, 30 seconds.

[A]

Yeah, I would say about. Yeah, about five minutes total for this entire thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From a flirting standpoint, can you recover from this?

[B]

You know what? Yes. Beck could. Now, Beck could be like, wow, I saved him. But he risked that. That's impressive. That's amazing. That's hot, even. And he could be like, wow, you're even hotter when you save me. They could work. I could see something. I could see something.

[A]

Well, almost immediately, Beck rushes over from the bed and starts picking shards of glass out of Big Rob's huge, bushy beard. Like, Beck just takes charge. She's calling for damp cloths and bandages and iodine. The climbers, of course, have plenty of first aid supplies, and. And Big Rob is just grinning because despite the fact that he is covered in blood and glass, he is finally talking to Beck.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is.

[B]

I knew. I knew it was gonna work out.

[A]

You never had any doubts?

[B]

I was always on board. I always thought this was a great idea.

[A]

Jono is pumping his fist. He's like, everything did not go exactly as planned, but it is still working out pretty well. In fact, it's working out so well that it takes Jono and everyone else at the party a hot minute to realize that the window to Locky Webb's apartment isn't actually broken, even though Big Rob is covered in glass.

[B]

Oh, no. Cause they're on the fourth floor.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

There's a ton of other windows.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Yeah. This means that someone else's window in the building has a big Rob shaped hole in it.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Which means at best, angry neighbors, or at worst, the cops. And there is evidence everywhere in Locky Webb's apartment. There's the blood and the glass, obviously, but also when the bed flew across the room, it left these deep scratches all across the wooden floor.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

What would you do if you were at this party?

[B]

I would bail.

[A]

Same.

[B]

I would not be at this party anymore.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah, I would leave. And some people do, But Jono feels responsible for all of this, so he immediately starts covering up the damage. Meanwhile, Locky Webb is like, if you are gonna leave, you have to leave now. So if the cops come, they don't just see a bunch of people walking out the building. So some people leave, but other people really wanna see how this turns out. And I respect those people too. I'm gonna be honest.

[B]

Like, we left or we would be that person. No, like, I could easily see us being that person.

[A]

Just being like, if you stay, I stay. I want to see what happens. Yeah.

[B]

Like, we would just be waiting for the other one to be like, yo, wait.

[A]

Yeah. So Jono and Locky Webb, they push the bed back into place. They pull a rug over the worst of the scratches on the floor in the living room. Someone else cleans up the glass. They close the big bay window. They turn the music down to a demure level. And they hide some of the empty alcohol bottles so it doesn't seem like 50 people were partying in one apartment. And then they wait and they wait and they wait. It's been about 45 minutes, and Jono is just starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe, everything's gonna be okay. And then there is a knock at the front door.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Jono looks at Big Rob, who is, like, less covered in blood and glass than he was half an hour ago, but he still does not look great. Big Rob is too busy looking at Beck to notice Jono telling him to hide. But again, Beck has everything under control. She heard that knock on the door and immediately pulled Big Rob into the bathroom. Wow.

[B]

Okay, Beck.

[A]

Yeah. Half the other partygoers hide as well. And remember, this is a party full of climbers. So they find some insane hiding spots. Like, Jono is fairly sure he sees at least three people in the rafters and one on top of the fridge.

[B]

I was thinking, like, Spider man style. Hanging off the ceiling.

[A]

Exactly. So once everyone is settled, Spider man style, Locky Web and Jono open the door and waiting in the hallway are two cops.

[B]

Oh, boy. I mean, I'm kind of glad it's cops and not angry neighbor. Low key.

[A]

That's true. Yeah.

[B]

Cause you gotta stick around with that neighbor. Unless you move.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

You're always gonna have to deal with that neighbor.

[A]

Mm. And luckily for our friends, these cops are clearly quite young and new to the force. They're fresh and not yet jaded by living among miscreants like Jono and his friends. Which again, is a direct quote from our friend who submitted the story.

[B]

Miscreants. Incredible.

[A]

So these baby cops ask Jono and Locky Webb if they've seen anything unusual that night. Locky Webb is like, nope, nothing of note.

[B]

Great, great answer.

[A]

Great answer. Yeah. Jono agrees. Like, yeah, it's been pretty quiet over here. One of the cops is like, well, that's really strange because we got the most fascinating call from the apartment one floor down where a group of ladies in their 50s were having a night of their own.

[B]

Ladies in their 50s? Oh no. Oh, no.

[A]

Specifically, they were having their monthly bunco night. So music was playing, gin was flowing. When these 50 year old ladies told the cops, a giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars flew through the big bay window, said, oh no. Oh shit. And then flew out again.

[B]

Oh, my God. And like, did Big Rob. He must have seen them. Like, he knew, right? Or he didn't know.

[A]

It's unclear how much you see when you fly through a window. In your experience?

[B]

In your experience?

[A]

I don't know how much. Yeah, in my experience of flying through a window and then being hauled out within like a minute, I don't really know how much I'm taking in the scenery, you know?

[B]

Oh my God. Okay, fair, Fair. To each her own.

[A]

Jono starts laughing really nervously. He's like, damn, that's crazy. And the cops are like, yeah, we didn't really believe it either, especially since it sounds like a lot of gin was flowing at this bunko night.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

But the cops are like, we went and checked it out and the window was definitely shattered from the outside. Even though the ladies bunco night is taking place in an apartment that is three floors off the street. So the cops are like, we're just taking a look at all of the apartments close by. Do you mind if we take a look around?

[B]

And what do our boys say? They're like, yeah, that's fine. Let's just get a rug real quick on the giant bed postmarks.

[A]

How are you feeling? Do you have any concerns?

[B]

Okay, the fact that it was old ladies, that's a shocking reveal because that's like old ladies watching this young burly ass. Man, I love that. But also that they're drunk. I'm worried about the boys gaslighting and somehow pinning this on them. I don't know. I have a vision, but I don't feel good about where it's going in this apartment.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like I must again reiterate here that everyone in this story except the cops is absolutely off their ass drunk. Because, of course, everyone had kept drinking while they waited for the cops to show up. What else were they gonna do?

[B]

No, they were drinking too. Jono and Big Rob and everybody. Of course. Of course. Oh, my God.

[A]

This is the only explanation I can accept for why Jono and Locky Webb tell the cops. Yeah, sure, come on in.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And then Jono really loudly is like, we don't have any giant men with bushy beards and thighs the size of wild boars here. Just some friends.

[B]

And it's like, no, we don't only have that. It's actually. We have men and women like that.

[A]

The cops are like, great, thanks. And then they take a look around. They inspect all the windows and the window ledges, which have thankfully been cleaned of blood and glass. They take a look in all the rooms and see nothing suspicious. In fact. In fact, the only question they have is about the white powder that's all over the apartment.

[B]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[A]

Luckily, there's actually an innocent explanation for this. Locky Webb is like, oh, that's climbing powder. That's what we use to keep our hands dry.

[B]

All right. I mean, why am I thinking these guys are good at partying?

[A]

It's so true. And one of the cops is like, oh, is that what the rope is. Is for? Because lying on the ground is Big Rob's rope that they have forgotten to hide.

[B]

The key. The key weapon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Other than Big Rob's body. What? How do you forget the rope?

[A]

Locky Web almost chokes. And then John was like, yep, yep. We were just testing the rope.

[B]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[A]

Which is apparently enough for these baby cops because they're just about to go when one of them notices the closed bathroom door behind which is a giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars covered in bandages.

[B]

Oh, man. If I were Rob, I'd be hopping in that shower. Like, I would be like, sorry, I'm naked. I can't.

[A]

Jono's like, oh, shit. Just as the cop is like, that bathroom door has been closed for a while now.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

All Jono can do is watch as the cop knocks on the bathroom door. There's no answer, and the cop knocks again. And then the door flies open. Can't you see we're busy? Beck says. And Beck is sitting on Big Rob's lap. Big Rob has never looked happier, which Jono can see more clearly than ever before because Big Rob's big bushy beard is gone.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Apparently, from inside the bathroom, Beck and Big Rob had heard the description of a giant man with a huge bushy beard and thighs the size of wild boars. And the. They couldn't do anything about Big Rob's thighs, at least not in a few minutes. But Beck is a quick thinker. She had found a razor in Locky Webb's bathroom and immediately started shaving Rob. She barely finished when the cop knocked on the bathroom door.

[B]

Women always gotta fix men's messes.

[A]

Women in stem.

[B]

Women. Women in.

[A]

Women in stem. For mountaineering.

[B]

Women in stem. This is why we invested. From this moment on, they were like, we gotta put money into women in. We figured out what to use it for.

[A]

The baby cop sees Beck on Big Rob's lap and turns red as a bee. He's like, sorry to interrupt. Wow. And closes the bathroom door before turning to his colleague and saying, I think we've seen everything we need.

[B]

Incredible. Incredible thinking.

[A]

Jono is like, breathing a sigh of relief. He's watching as the cops turn to leave. He's like, we're. We are so close to getting away. Home free. And then right at that moment, one of the climbers who has been clinging to the rafters for the past 15 minutes, falls to the apartment floor right in front of the cops.

[B]

Oh, no. Who would have thought? Who would have thought?

[A]

Luckily, these are people who are professionally good at falling. I think if you climb, you have to learn to fall. So while it's very loud, the clim still. The cops are like, sir, do you need medical attention? And Locky Webb's like, we're good. We're just practicing for our next expedition.

[B]

These guys are smarter than you would ever have thought.

[A]

Listen, drunk brain really comes in handy sometimes.

[B]

It really does. And they are practiced.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta think quick when you're out in the elements.

[B]

Yes, I feel.

[A]

And that is basically the end of our story. I do have some updates for you. But I wanted to ask you, if you were to try and date a boy like Big Rob or Jono, what do you think is the safest date you can take a man like this on?

[B]

Safety. I'm never going higher than the ground floor with these guys, ever. And we are not going near a bar or restaurant. We are going to like craft night, like a senior center. Except we aren't even safe at the senior center. Cause these old ladies, you know, they're popping off.

[A]

It's so true. It's so true. Yeah, I'm just like, take them to the park. But even that is so dangerous.

[B]

We have to be in a closed, contained environment and there must be no windows and nothing they can rappel off at all.

[A]

So the updates are. After the cops leave, Big Rob and Jono and Locky Webb pull all of the money that they had meant to spend on beer and they leave it in a brow paper bag in front of the door of the apartment below them. Cause they feel bad about breaking the window.

[B]

Oh my God. Thoughtful.

[A]

Yeah, thoughtful. But this only adds to the mystery of the whole thing for the ladies downstairs who apparently talked about the time the giant bearded man with great thighs flew through the window and flew back out for a solid three decades afterwards.

[B]

I mean, honestly, as girlies who love a story. Yeah, they were gifted and amazing.

[A]

No, it's so true. It would be like, do you remember? And I'd be like, yeah, of course I do. I haven't seen thighs like that since wild boar size. Exactly. The next update is that the morning after Big Rob's flight, Beck visits Big Rob to check up on his injuries, of course. And the two end up dating for a couple of years. Years. Years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They are still friendly to this day, but Beck understood pretty quickly that the true love of Big Rob's life is Jono. Which you call from the very beginning.

[B]

I literally called it. I'm practiced.

[A]

Big Rob and Jono are in their 70s now and they're still climbing together. They are no better at talking to women. And apparently their nursing homes do not allow them on any floor but the ground. Floo.

[B]

Exactly. A nursing home with a basement is the best place for these guys.

[A]

And that is the end of our story. Thank you so much for joining me, Allegra.

[B]

Thank you for giving me an amazing story that I'm gonna steal and tell other people now. I'm gonna blog about this one.

[A]

Thank you for listening to normal gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email [e-mail] or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP if you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] youm can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok. At normalgossip you can find Follow me on all social media Eydanae H E Y Y D N A E this podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley Ricks and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatsick. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal gossip are Kelsey McKinney and defector supervising Producer Alex Sujong Laughlin. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Tom Lay is our Editor in chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show. Art thank you to Brandi Jensen, David Ra, Katherine Shu, Serena Embler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford and Ray Ratto for your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host Rachel Hampton and remember, remember you didn't hear this from me.

[B]

Radiotopia from PRX.