The Wormhole of Sasha with Gabby Windey

Summary

Podcast Summary: Normal Gossip – "The Wormhole of Sasha with Gabby Windey"

Episode Information

• Title: The Wormhole of Sasha with Gabby Windey
• Host: Kelsey McKinney
• Guest: Gabby Windey
• Release Date: June 12, 2024

Introduction

In this episode of Normal Gossip, host Kelsey McKinney is joined by TV personality and podcast host Gabby Windey. The conversation seamlessly weaves between personal anecdotes about gossip and a captivating fictional narrative centered around two characters, Emily and Sasha. The episode delves deep into the complexities of relationships, particularly within queer communities, and explores themes of love, jealousy, and personal growth.

Relationship to Gossip

Kelsey begins by establishing the show's premise—delivering anonymous, humorous, and sometimes banal gossip about strangers. Gabby shares her affinity for gossip, emphasizing its role in bonding and entertainment rather than malicious intent.

Gabby Windey [02:27]: "I love gossip. I think it's a way to bond. I think it's fun, I think it's funny."

She distinguishes her style from the dramatized gossip seen in reality TV, focusing instead on sharing candid stories without the aim to tarnish reputations.

The Story of Emily and Sasha

Kelsey introduces a fictional narrative about Emily, a teenage aspiring songwriter, and her tumultuous relationship with Sasha at a prestigious songwriting program.

1. Emily’s Ambition and Arrival at the Program

   • Kelsey [11:17]: "Emily’s passion, her dream in life is to be a songwriter."
   • Emily applies to a competitive two-week singer-songwriter program in a mountainous small town, securing one of the limited 15 spots despite her father's initial resistance.

2. Meeting Sasha

   • Upon arriving, Emily meets Sasha, characterized by her long dark hair and ability to drive a stick shift—a trait Emily finds irresistibly attractive.
   • Kelsey [13:25]: "This girl drives a stick shift, long hair, writes the best songs I’ve ever heard."

3. Developing Relationship and Initial Bonding

   • They bond over activities like tie-dying overalls, reminiscent of Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, which further deepens their connection.
   • Emily [14:16]: "These aren't even that cute. But I put them on and I look incredible."

4. Confusion Between Friendship and Romance

   • Emily grapples with distinguishing between a close friendship and romantic feelings, a common dilemma in young relationships.
   • Gabby [15:10]: "I think Sasha should, like, take the reins if she's attracted to Emily."

5. Moving Together and Strains in Relationship

   • Both decide to live in the same dorm room, intensifying their emotional entanglement.
   • Kelsey [20:40]: "They are stuck in this tiny program together, living in the same dorm room."

6. Breakdown and Attempted Reconciliation

   • Conflicts arise due to proximity, leading Emily to seek a room change, which the administration denies.
   • A pivotal moment occurs when Elena attends a 70s party with a new friend, Harper, leading to jealousy and confusion.
   • Kelsey [35:19]: "I feel like Emily is kind of all of us who are just so down bad and trying to make excuses."

7. Introducing Polyamory

   • Emily proposes an open relationship based on her readings from "The Ethical Slut," aiming to redefine their love.
   • Kelsey [35:49]: "This is my idea. Maybe I do want an open relationship, but not with Sasha."

8. Escalation of Tensions

   • Emily and Sasha collaborate on songs, blurring professional and personal boundaries.
   • A critical scene unfolds when Sasha announces her marriage to Harper, delivering a shocking twist.
   • Kelsey [53:12]: "We are getting married this Saturday."

9. Final Confrontation and Closure

   • Emily confronts Sasha at her neighborhood coffee shop, demanding the return of her personal items.
   • The encounter culminates in Emily gaining closure, albeit with lingering emotions.
   • Kelsey [57:10]: "Nothing better than running into an ex. When you look great and are like, it's so good to see you."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Gabby Windey [02:27]: "I love gossip. I think it's a way to bond. I think it's fun, I think it's funny."
• Gabby Windey [03:03]: "There's a housewives style of gossip where they're actually making shit up and wanting to ruin people's reputation."
• Kelsey McKinney [13:14]: "This girl's name is Sasha."
• Kelsey McKinney [35:49]: "This is great. I hope she's really made it through."
• Kelsey McKinney [53:12]: "We are getting married this Saturday."

Discussions and Insights

Throughout the narrative, Gabby and Kelsey interject with insightful commentary on the dynamics of young relationships, especially within the queer community. They highlight the challenges of communication, the impact of close living conditions on personal relationships, and the complexities introduced by societal expectations and personal insecurities.

Gabby emphasizes the importance of authenticity and self-awareness, suggesting that Emily’s struggles are reflective of broader issues faced by individuals trying to navigate their identities and relationships.

Gabby Windey [15:30]: "Some lesbians don't fuck with baby gays because they don't want the responsibility of teaching somebody."

The episode also explores the concept of polyamory as Emily attempts to redefine her relationship with Sasha, questioning traditional monogamous structures and the pressures of maintaining multiple romantic connections.

Conclusion

"The Wormhole of Sasha with Gabby Windey" is a compelling episode that blends personal reflections on gossip with a richly detailed fictional story. Through the characters of Emily and Sasha, listeners are invited to explore the intricacies of young love, the challenges of communication in relationships, and the journey toward self-discovery. Gabby Windey’s engaging insights and Kelsey McKinney’s storytelling prowess combine to create a thought-provoking and entertaining narrative that resonates with anyone navigating the complexities of relationships and personal growth.

Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the notion that gossip, when shared responsibly, can illuminate the human experience's nuanced and often contradictory nature. By presenting deeply personal and relatable scenarios, Normal Gossip continues to offer listeners both entertainment and meaningful reflections on everyday interactions.

Transcript

[Alex]

Hey there, it's Alex. You may have heard at the end of our episodes the phrase Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia, but maybe you don't know what that means. The media industry is kind of garbage right now, and it is harder than ever for independent creatives to own their own work, get paid for their work, and to make a living off of their work. Radiotopia is trying to make that possible for more independent creators. They're really great partners for us and we have been so happy to work with them. Every year, Radiotopia does a fundraising drive, and right now we have a goal of reaching 2024 donors. And maybe one of them is you. Your donations in the fall fundraiser go into marketing, ad sales, technology, and it also makes it possible to bring on new shows in the future. So maybe your next favorite podcast is just around the corner. If you are a Normal Gossip or Defector subscriber, that is different. If you donate during the fall fundraiser, you'll get a link to a curated list of all Radiotopia producers favorite things. As a token of thanks, I included something in there. You will never guess what it is. If you're listening to this episode right now, you are already supporting the work of Normal Gossip, Defector Media and Radiotopia. But if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia Fall FundRaiser, visit Radiotopia FM, donate to learn more and add your name to the list of awesome listeners who support independent podcasts. Thanks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so, so excited to have with me today Gabby Windy. Gabby is a TV personality from some of your and your grandmother's favorite reality TV shows. We're talking the Bachelor, the Bachelorette, and Dancing with the Stars. She is now the host of a podcast called Long Winded, where she runs her mouth on her favorite topics like Taylor Swift and the hopeful downfall of the patriarchy. Gabby, welcome.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. Thank you so much for having me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you want to start me off with a classic first question and tell me what your relationship to gossip is?

[Gabby Windy]

Yes. I've literally been thinking about this for the last year. I'm just going to go. No holds bar. I love gossip. I think it's a way to bond. I think it's fun, I think it's funny. But I'm not gossiping to try and ruin people's lives. Like it's like, there's a housewives style of gossip where they're, like, actually making shit up and, like, wanting to ruin people's reputation. But my style of gossip is just like, if, like, somebody else is letting their life hang out so messy, I'm obviously going to tell people about it because they're not even specific with who knows?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Gabby Windy]

You know, so it's like, whatever. It could have came from the horse's mouth, them. But, like, I'm basically the horse too, because. But I will say in the same breath, which people aren't going to believe me now, and that's okay. But as a nurse, you know, it's like a career filled with mostly women. It's like we, you know, love to gossip and things like that. But I had friends who would, like, come back to me time after time and be like, I know I can trust you, because it doesn't get around the unit. It's like, oh, I do have loyalties to people that I really care about. Like, I can take it to the grave.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Gabby Windy]

Mostly I gossip about myself too. I'm like, if, like, some crazy shit has happened, like, I will tell everyone. It's like a party trick. I'm like, you'll never guess who said what to me in like 2020. And like, show text messages and all the.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God.

[Gabby Windy]

But I know because I love to get that reaction.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I love that you're coming in with like, receipts, right. That you're like, I'm here to tell you a story. And also I have six screenshots and an Instagram to show you.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, no, literally. And like, ring camera footage.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Ring camera footage, yes.

[Gabby Windy]

Like, it goes deep. So it's like, I know I can back it up, like in a court of law if I needed to, which is like this other person confronting me is the court.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is like such a specific question. Like, you don't have to have an answer to this, but do you keep it in a folder on your phone? Like, how do you have it ready to go?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, the hidden folder. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There'S all your secrets in there.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, I know exactly where to go. That and all my nudes. And what. That's.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's really funny to think about, like, hacking into someone's hidden folder and it being like, okay, nudes. But what are all these text message screenshots? Like, why are these in here?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. What are all these emails?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, that's really silly. Has coming out as queer changed the way you gossip at all?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, it's gotten better oh, interesting. The lesbian community, I feel like, is so tight knit and so enmeshed that it's like this person is now dating this person, but it's back and they were dating my ex and this is what happened. And like this one always cheats. Or this person is like having conversations with their husband that they've been with for 18 years about exploring their sexuality. Like, it just gets so deep and then there's like lesbian line dancing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Lesbian line dancing. I'm flying to la. This is like, I'm like, I'll be right there.

[Gabby Windy]

Literally come asap. It like converts people. Apparently. They like go once and then have a queer awakening. I don't go all the time, but like people go. And then you'll see. Like, I. I remember when I was still kind of in the closet, like, people would recognize me at lesbian line dancing and they'd be like, we love to see you here. But like, what the fuck is going on?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, what are you doing here?

[Gabby Windy]

Right? Yeah. So you'll see people like that and like you've just kind of like, whatever, meet people, like kind of find out who's dating who. So they all show up at line dancing. It's a good place to gossip, if you like to gossip, be a lesbian.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Incredible.

[Gabby Windy]

Thank you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love this advice as a Texan. I love that you're like reclaiming line dancing and making it something fun. Like, truly. I will be right there. I heard that you brought a gossip story to share with me. Is that true?

[Gabby Windy]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Can I have it?

[Gabby Windy]

Oh my God, yeah. I'm dying to let you have it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm so excited now that I know that you're like a receipts girly. You have all this stuff. I'm like, gimme. Oh my God, like hungry, Please, sir.

[Gabby Windy]

So my girlfriend obviously is a comedian, so. And she's like, you know, pretty connected and stuff and whatever. But she gets a phone call from her friend. Well, her friend is like, I have something to tell you. Make sure Gabby's in the room. Which I'm like, what? I know. Literally, I'm like, what is going on? And her friend is another comedian and they were like in New York at an industry event. Totally. So there's a pop star in this story. So like, this pop star has an assistant.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. This is just like a good moment to be like, assistants know everything. They know everything about you, they know everything about your life. So you should be nice to them.

[Gabby Windy]

No, yeah, literally. So the assistant was like talking to my girlfriend's friend and she's like, I have something to show you. And right. Obviously the friend is like foaming at the mouth. Like, this is. Yeah, of course I'm on my way. And so they go like, wherever to, you know, the pop stars kind of like room, like, like backstage thing where the assistant was like, kind of organizing and things and then she's like, shows my girlfriend's friend. It's a calendar of my girlfriend Robbie.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, on the wall.

[Gabby Windy]

It's like a printed out calendar. Oh, my God. They like took pictures kind of from Instagram and they, like keep all of the pop star's events on it. Oh, my gosh. With them everywhere. The assistant got the pop star this calendar for Christmas. And then so it's like a 2024 calendar of my girlfriend. Like, you would do like a fireman or something like that. It's like all different.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm obsessed with the fact that this isn't something that Robbie made and produced and sold. This is something that was like, individually made for the pop star so that she could hang it in her room and be like, concert on this night.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Meeting with whoever. Like this and this and this. I know. I'm like, don't give Robbie ideas because she will try and sell that shit. But I know. I'm like, this is actually so crazy. It's like, she must just be a big fan of Robbie's comedy. I'm choosing that, right? Because I'm like, does she have a crush on you? First of all, why I have to be on the call, like, Ryan, even like, this, this, like, pop singer's music until I introduced her to it. And I'm like, what is she doing with that? Like, does she have a crush on you? Is she going to try and swoop? But I'm like, this is actually so crazy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think a good bit you could do is to make a calendar of yourself and send it to her, actually.

[Gabby Windy]

That's genius.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Just like, here you go. Since you love calendars of us, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Gabby Windy]

Maybe use this one.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Signing it like, heard you're a fan. Love, Gabby.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Heard you really like me, not my girlfriend. Here's my pictures. It's all like, swimsuits. Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love that. Thank you for bringing me this gossip.

[Gabby Windy]

I loved it so much. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you want to hear the gossip that I have for you?

[Gabby Windy]

Dying.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Have you ever had a relationship that's like so fast and so passionate that you, like, don't see it for what it is?

[Gabby Windy]

Like, every relationship I've been in, like, I just thought that was a relationship.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's what our story is about today. Our friend of a friend, we're gonna call her Emily.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay?

[Kelsey McKinney]

She lives on the east coast. She is a teenager. Okay. And her passion, her dream in life is to be a songwriter.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, dated some boys here and there. And every boy she dates, she's like, I play guitar better than him.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Fuck yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Her junior year, she's like, I really want to be a songwriter. Like, this is my dream in life. So I'm gonna apply to this like, two week singer songwriter program. And it's like in a small town, like in the mountains, they only pick like 15 girls.

[Gabby Windy]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's two weeks long. But, you know, when you're 17, two weeks is like six months.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Literally. Being away from your family, my dad would be like, hell no, you're not going.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So pretty quickly, because she's there and there's only 15 of them and they're all together all the time. They get this kind of like camp brain, you know?

[Gabby Windy]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Can you, like, explain this?

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, it's like the hormones are flying. You know, you're in the bubble so you can't think of anything else. It's like, I feel like it's literally just like the Bachelor. Any kind of bubble I've been in, you forget that there's anyone else in the world. And I think, like, just by proximity sake, it's like, you know, now with dating and stuff, they say you have too many options with online dating.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Gabby Windy]

So when people used to just like, literally date their neighbors and, like, would be happy about it because they wouldn't think about any other option. So this girl is going to be so down bad. I can already feel it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Literally. Yes. She's like bonding with a lot of the girls. Like, they're all kind of, you know, gabbing all the time. So happy.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But one of the girls in particular, she is extremely down bad for.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. So she's a lesbian.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Is she.

[Gabby Windy]

Is this a gay story? Oh, my God. You picked the right girl. I feel profiled.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This girl's name is Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she has, like long dark hair. She drives a stick shift.

[Gabby Windy]

I drove a stick shift. Just talking about that at dinner last night. They're like, that was your first clue. I'm like, was it? It is not. Like, it was a cool skill.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It is a cool skill.

[Gabby Windy]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily is like, it's hot that Sasha can do it, right?

[Gabby Windy]

So hot.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, yeah. She's like, this girl drives a stick shift, long hair, writes the best songs I've ever heard.

[Gabby Windy]

Hot, hot, hot.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're spending all this time together at camp. They're, like, doing things together. And one of the things they do together is they tie dye. Oh, Emily makes these, like, tie dyed overalls.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Are like, you know the movie Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, where they put on the pants and it just, like, looks perfect somehow.

[Gabby Windy]

Totally. Such a scam. Now looking back, it's like, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Literally, you look back and you're like, but they're all the same size. So that makes sense, right?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Literally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But Emily holding these tie dyed overalls up is like, these aren't even that cute. And then she puts them on and she looks incredible in them. Like, she's like, this is the best I've ever felt.

[Gabby Windy]

Yes. Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha is like, you look so cute in those. And Emily's like, oh, my God, Do I?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. She's like, you mean it?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily starts to wonder, like, how do you know whether something is a close friendship or something more?

[Gabby Windy]

Well, I feel like even having the question is letting you know. It's like, if you wondering if you're gay, you're gay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Yes. You know, and this is hard for Emily because she knows that Sasha is gay, and she can kind of tell that Sasha is, like, waiting for her to make a move. Do you think she should?

[Gabby Windy]

I mean, yeah, I think she. She could have a conversation, be like, you're making me question my sexuality, like, where should we go from here? But also, I think Sasha should, like, take the reins if she's attracted to Emily and be like, I'm gonna make a move. I'm just projecting because that's what happened with Rob relationship.

[Kelsey McKinney]

All gossip is just projecting.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. And I'm really happy with, like, the way that went because I don't know if I would have ever been, like, confident enough or, like, share myself enough in my sexuality to really, like, make the first move. So unfortunately. And that's why I feel like some lesbians don't, like, fuck with baby gays.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gabby Windy]

Quote unquote, because they don't want the responsibility of, like, teaching somebody. But thank God that Robby did.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So Emily is, like, really scared to do this because she's 17, and it's really scary to be vulnerable in general. And so she waits and waits and waits, and then it's, like, time to leave the camp.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the last conversation she has with Sasha, she's like, I don't really know what this means. I don't really know what it means for me as a person. But, like, I think that I really like you.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And I don't really know what I'm doing.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha's like, I really like you, too. And that's fine. You don't have to know. Like, we will figure it out together.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, I love this. I'm wondering when it's going to take a turn, though. I'm really scared.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Don't be scared yet.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They go back home because they like our high schoolers, so they have to go back to their houses, and they live, like, a couple of hours apart.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they're entering their senior year, and Emily is like, I miss camp so much. I miss my teen crush, Sasha. Like, she's writing letters to everyone all the time, but she's mostly, like, talking to Sasha all the time.

[Gabby Windy]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

In the fall, Sasha's like, can I come visit?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Immediately, yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily's like, immediately, yes. Sasha comes to visit, and it's, like, a little awkward at first until, like, suddenly it is not awkward at all.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. Okay, so they're really doing it, are they? I'm wondering what they're telling their parents. Like, oh, this is just a friend. I love that trick.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. It's like, you would never be able to have your boyfriend sleep over at your house in high school.

[Gabby Windy]

Absolutely not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is just my friend.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. This is, like a weekend of first. And for Emily, it's, like, perfect. Like, first kiss, first girlfriend. Like, first romantic stroll under fall leaves.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The first time she's, like, dreamt of a future with someone.

[Gabby Windy]

Holy shit. Yeah. She's really having a queer awakening at 17. I got mine at 32, so she's, like, way ahead of the ball. I'm so happy for her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The benefit of getting your queer awakening at 32, though, is that you're, like, not super hormonal, whereas at 17, you're, like, extremely hormonal and, like, crazy.

[Gabby Windy]

You can't see straight.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So when Sasha goes home, this is, like, the worst thing that's ever happened to Emily.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. She loses her mind.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She loses her mind. She's like, this is a tragedy. It's awful. I'm miserable.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, God. Poor thing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And because they're seniors, they're talking about, like, where they're gonna go to college, naturally. So they pull a little con and they're like, we both wanna go to this exclusive songwriter program on the west coast, so we'll, quote, unquote, go visit the college together.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay. Sneaky. Love it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they go visit the college. They have a great weekend. They're having so much fun. They both apply, they both get in.

[Gabby Windy]

Holy shit. I'm just hoping they get married, but I know it's not gonna be that way.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. Do you go to the same college, same program at the same college as your, like, girlfriend? What do you think about this?

[Gabby Windy]

Well, it's hard because at that point, like, I thought I was straight, so it was really easy for me to. To, like, separate myself from men. And was it gonna turn out for me later? Like, I feel like all my relationships when I was that age, I'd be like, okay, we can do this for six months to a year, but, like, fuck no. Like, I know I'm not marrying you, so I'm gonna dump your ass, like, asap. But it's the old, like, U hauling. Like, you're, like, so many hormones. You're young. You think this is your whole world. But I would say, like, it is. I. It's really hard to tell because now being like, like, firm in my queerity, in my queerisms, that I would probably be like, yes. But I would hope at that age you'd have some kind of, like, intuition about the future to know that maybe this wasn't the best idea to be attached to a partner while you're also, like, beginning your career, your education.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Emily kind of justifies it to herself by being like, this is the best program in the country for what I want to do. And I'm really excited to do that. So, like, if Sasha's going to be there, that's a bonus. But, like, I'm not going for her. I'm going for myself.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, right. We've all said that. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm not following her. No, it's for me, actually.

[Gabby Windy]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she and Sasha are still together. All spring of their senior year. They pack up their stuff, they drive across the country to this program. But they have also decided something that I have forgotten to tell you, which is that they're gonna live in the same dorm room.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, they're so messy. They are, like, typical U hauling. It's like, you're giving us a bad Name.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you think it's a good idea to live with your girlfriend in a dorm room?

[Gabby Windy]

Right. Yeah. Obviously not. I'm like, that's a leading question. And you're right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They move in to this freshman dorm room in the fall. At first, it's great. They gab all the time. They're having people over. They push their twin beds together. They're like, this is great.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

By fall break, they have separated the beds.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh. Oh, my God. Wow. So literally like just a month or something.

[Kelsey McKinney]

A couple months, yeah.

[Gabby Windy]

Wow. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They are crying all the time.

[Gabby Windy]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because the thing about long distance is it can like hide a lot of flaws in your relationship, right?

[Gabby Windy]

Absolutely. Yeah. It's like easier because once you're together, it's like all of this stuff comes out. It's like, no, actually, I don't love the way they chew with their mouth open. I think this is going to put me in my grave.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So Emily is like really conflicted because she's like, I love Sasha so much, but I'm also like, we're having these tiffs all the time. I'm kind of exhausted. Like, I want things to be better.

[Gabby Windy]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you think she should do?

[Gabby Windy]

I'm like, have a conversation with Sasha. It's hard because they're 17 and so I'm like, or I guess maybe 18 now, 19 now. I don't know how much they want to dive into couples therapy because like the new relationship commitment part of me is like, you can work through anything. Yeah. But also like at 17, 18, it's like, maybe this is kind of a sign. Take a step back. Like, try and live at least into independent lives a little bit. Like co regulation, mutual regulation is something I'm learning about as a 33 year old. I feel like you should really live big, messy lives. Be able to learn from it at that age.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Emily is like, I think the problem is we're not talking about it enough.

[Gabby Windy]

Right. Right. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, let's talk more.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she has this conversation with Sasha where she's like, I just really feel like something is off between us and like, we can't. I can't quite like fix it. Right. Like, I feel like we're, we're talking past each other and like, things aren't really working. And Sasha's like, I totally agree. I also think things aren't working. I think we should move on.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, shit. Sasha. Damn. Emily's like, shit, that is not what I was saying. So what Sasha hiding? I'm on to her. She's cheating.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. Emily's like, that's not what I meant. Right. Like, I meant that we should, like, work through it, but now that Sasha has brought it up, she's like, you know, I am, like, 19 years old. Maybe I should move on.

[Gabby Windy]

Right. Yeah. See what else is out there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mm. Can you think of a problem here with their breakup?

[Gabby Windy]

Well, they're stuck in this tiny program together, and, like, they're living in the same dorm room. Like, they're just so connected.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Literally, they're, like, so connected. They share this room. They share the program. So they're in this, like, weird situation where they've broken up, but they're still, like, living together, talking all the time, going to the same classes.

[Gabby Windy]

Yes. So toxic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Gabby Windy]

Like, you can't have a clean break like that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Emily is like, I need a clean break. So she, like, goes to the people in charge of her dorm, and she's like, can I switch rooms?

[Gabby Windy]

Wow. Good for her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they're like, no.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There's, like, no room.

[Gabby Windy]

Left hand. I got myself in this terrible situation because I had to u haul it, and now I need to get out.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. The administration is like, I'm sorry, we can't help you. Like, there are no rooms open, so we, like, couldn't move you anywhere. All the rooms are full, so every day it's super weird and bad. Do you have any ideas for this?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, I mean, I would find maybe, like, go around, be like, hey, are you willing to switch rooms with me? Like, I'm in this really terrible situation. Beg and plead and get on the housing people's nerves as much as you can until they just finally give the fuck in. Because this actually is emotional life or death.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. One day Emily's out on the quad, and she's talking to this girl named Harper, who she doesn't know that well. And Harper is like, I hate my roommate.

[Gabby Windy]

Perfect.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, my roommate killed my cactus by over watering it, and, like, won't admit to it.

[Gabby Windy]

Criminal.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like. She's also one of those girls that's, like, awake all night and, like, has the lights on.

[Gabby Windy]

Rude. Emily's like, she's perfect for me. I hate cactuses, and I'm a night owl.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily's like, oh, I could just switch rooms, like, illegally, Right? Like, I don't need the permission of the administration.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Absolutely not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily is like, what if I could convince your roommate to switch rooms with me, and then I live with you, and your annoying roommate goes and lives with Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

See, that's kind of like another layer of, like, manipulation fucked up because actually she should be the one to switch. But I guess she wants to live with her friend. But she's really like, kind of backstabbing Sasha, putting her in the room with this girl. But honestly, Sasha just like, put her through a lot. So it's like, I don't know, it's.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hard to know who's right here.

[Gabby Windy]

I'm down to be petty.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, I know that. Sasha is like a night owl. So it's not going to be as hard for her as it was for Harper.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay, perfect. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, go talk to your roommate. So Harper talks to her roommate and her roommate is like, yes, I would love to not live with you. You're, like, always whining about this cactus that I quote, unquote, killed.

[Gabby Windy]

They actually hate each other.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They actually.

[Gabby Windy]

It all comes out. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Emily switches rooms.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And now she lives with Harper.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

How do you feel about that?

[Gabby Windy]

Well, they're gonna fall in love, obviously.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, Harper is great. She's like a really soft spoken kind of girl. And she's like, not in the songwriting program with Emily. So she's like, I don't have to see her all the time. Which is great.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They have like, zero romantic tension. But they're like, very quickly close where it's like they're talking about their whole relationship backstories. They're drawing, like, you know, family trees to be like, here's who my weird uncle is. Right?

[Gabby Windy]

Like all this stuff blurring the lines if you ask me. But yeah, but it's hard to know as women. This is the problem with, like, lesbian relationships is just like, the lines are so blurred. You have no idea where to toe or things are gonna, like, go awry. So. And then, oops, suddenly we're in love, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it's like, how do you know the difference between platonic intimacy and romantic intimacy? Right? Like, that's a really complicated question.

[Gabby Windy]

Right. That's what I'm asking my girlfriend all the time when she texts her ex. I'm like, how do you know you're just friends? Like, what message are you sending her? She's like, no, I swear. We just, like, exchange memes about the Pope. I'm like, what?

[Kelsey McKinney]

What?

[Gabby Windy]

This seems awfully personal.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're going on all of these late night Taco Bell runs together. Like, they're getting close.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay, my love, language.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They decide one night they're like, we're gonna go to this 70s themed party. And Emily is like, harper, you should wear these tie dyed overalls that I have. Like, they're really cute. They'll look great on you. And Harper's like, great cute.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Harper puts on the overalls, they go to the 70s theme party, and immediately they see Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, oh, no. And she's with another girl or guy, who knows?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like having a great time, right? Like kissing somebody on the dance floor. And Emily is like, this is so hard.

[Gabby Windy]

What the fuck? Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then Sasha comes over and is like, harper, these are like great overalls.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, saying hi to Emily, saying hi to Harper. And Emily has like, a pang of jealousy that she knows is like, not fair because they broke up, but she's still jealous.

[Gabby Windy]

I would literally lay in traffic or like, immediately down like eight tequila shots.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's like so hard to get over someone that you can't get away from.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. Yeah. And seeing them make out with somebody else at that age, it's like the world is actually ending. Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And you see her all the time because you're in the same program, right? So it's like you can't even be like, okay, clean break.

[Gabby Windy]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

In the spring semester, she signs up for her classes. Emily shows up the first day, and who's in one of her classes but Sasha, of course.

[Gabby Windy]

Right, Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

To make matters worse, the class is called Writing Love Songs.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, this is tragic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they are supposed to pair up to write love songs.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, this is terrible. I would immediately ask to switch. Or like, does a breakup song count as a love song? Yes, because I would just write a song to Sasha that's so heartbreaking and make her feel like shit and then get nay in the class.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's two birds with one stone. And you've written a great breakup song. Right after the first class, Sasha comes up to Emily and is like, listen, I know this is like, really weird for us to both be in the same class and like, do you want to, like, essentially declare a ceasefire in this, like, cold war that we're having?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily's like, yeah, totally. Like, I think we can be normal about this.

[Gabby Windy]

Easier said than done. I could never be normal.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Neither can they.

[Gabby Windy]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha is like, also, I think we work really well together. Like, would you want to pair up to do the songs in this class?

[Gabby Windy]

Sasha's so toxic. I literally can't with her. Like, she's just like, not minding Emily's feelings. And it's getting to Me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you think Emily should do here?

[Gabby Windy]

Emily should switch classes. She shouldn't be a singer songwriter anymore and put her feelings first. I'm like, just intern under Taylor Swift. You'll be on top. Like, there has to be other ways.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily goes back to her dorm room, and she's like, harper, what do you think I should do here? And Harper is like, I don't know, because it's, like. Seems like a really bad idea to work with Sasha because she is, like, you're very emotionally entangled with her.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But Harper's also, like, you do work really well together, and it could be, like, Fleetwood Mac hours, where, like, sure, there's a little emotional drama, but, like, is that worth it for great songs?

[Gabby Windy]

We could top the charts with this relationship. Let's try and at least make some money off of it. I'm kind of here for that too. I'm just here for the mess. But actually, I'm like, don't do it. Because she probably has enough, like, inspiration and heartbreak on her own. Like, she doesn't need Sasha's ass, who just, like, doesn't care about her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily is, like, not thinking this critically. She's like, it's gonna hurt, but I think it will be worth it because we'll get some great songs.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Never worth it. Emily. Come on.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So the two of them pair up. They are writing all of these songs together. They're helping each other. They're getting some songs that, like, Emily's really proud of.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But they're hanging out more and more because they are writing together. And as they're hanging out, she's, like, falling back into the, like, wormhole of Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Naturally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Has this ever happened to you?

[Gabby Windy]

I'm like, I've never been a singer songwriter, but. Yeah. Yeah, Literally, yet. But I always, like. I've backslid into my exes so many times, but also, whenever I do that, I feel like it's even more confirmation. Validation that I didn't want to be or, like, why we broke up. It's like, oh, you actually are, like, whatever. An asshole who, like, isn't gonna change, so. And this one last, like, sleep together is really putting it in stone.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Gabby Windy]

But I understand.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it's hard because she's like, I do really like Sasha as a person. Right. And, like, we're very close friends.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But, like, also, that's all tangled up in the kissing. Right. Which is, like, the problem.

[Gabby Windy]

And that's what lesbians do. Like, you don't. You can like someone as a person from afar. You don't need to be their friend. You don't need to be their singer songwriter partner. You can, like, for your own sake, separate yourself.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That is a great idea. That is not what they do.

[Gabby Windy]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're like, we're writing all these songs together. It's very romantic. They, like, think that they invent a new form of songwriting where, like, they each write one line of the verse.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then they write the chorus together.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay. Wow. Pioneers.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I know.

[Gabby Windy]

And they're like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They're like, we're gonna make a whole.

[Gabby Windy]

Album of these crazy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they're spending a lot of time in Emily and Harper's room because Harper's ex roommate is, in fact, annoying.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they begin smooching.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily and Sasha, they're smooching. They're being a little romantic. These songs are getting them a little worked up.

[Gabby Windy]

I literally can't with them.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily's like, I don't know what's going on. Like, are we back together? Like, how do I know naturally?

[Gabby Windy]

And she's always the one in the relations that's, like, left guessing. And that's what I don't like because I feel like Sasha has the upper hand.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily's like, I'm so stressed because I'm like, we're kissing. We're, like, doing other stuff. We're all these things to each other, but I don't know what we are. And around this time, she goes to a party, and this is where she encounters what we will call the Bailey problem.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Bailey's problem that she's constantly creating is that she thinks it's fine to kiss your friends.

[Gabby Windy]

Bailey, can you not?

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, it's totally fine. You can just kiss all your friends. That's totally normal, like, adorable, whatever. We love it.

[Gabby Windy]

It's literally not, though. It's literally not legit when you're, like, drunk and you're like, watch my girl.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Gabby Windy]

It's like, doesn't translate to real life.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily goes to a party without Sasha. Bailey's there. She kisses Bailey.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then she's like, I feel, like, low key guilty. Even though, like, me and Sasha don't have, like, an agreement.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Sasha doesn't give a fuck about you. Emily, I'm so sorry. Don't feel guilty.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you do here?

[Gabby Windy]

I know she's gonna run back and tell Sasha, but I would take it to the grave. I'd be like, don't ask, don't tell policy. Like, nobody needs to know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily Is like, you know, she's been taking some gender studies classes, so she's like, my mind is opening. And she's like, maybe the reason that me and Sasha didn't work is because we were exclusive. She's like, maybe we need a new version of love. Like, one that is honest and personal and open.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my. I can't. That's one thing. This is one, like, topic. I. This is good to explore, actually, for me, because I feel like in the queer community, people love to talk about poly. I'm like, is being monogamous the old being straight? Like, we just have to open up our minds a little bit more. We're not as progressed, but I don't think that's the case for me. I love being monogamous, and I'm just way too jealous of a person.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I think it's also interesting because, like, there have been people in polyamorous relationships forever. Right. Like, there's a long history of people in polyamorous relationships, but, like, every generation as they enter adulthood is like, I have a new idea that no one wants.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it's. It's like drugs, right? Like, every generation thinks they invented drugs. They're like, we're doing something new and crazy that our parents have never done.

[Gabby Windy]

Right. Like, the monks were fully doing opium. I don't know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Gabby Windy]

Literally, it is a naturally occurring herb. Like, we didn't invent this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[D]

Despite wearing a hat every single day all summer long, I do have the skin of a Victorian ghost. Which means that if the sun even finds one little spot of skin that has not had sunscreen applied in the last, like, one hour, it destroys it. And so, you know, after a summer trying to avoid the sun, I still ended up with a little, tiny dark spot on my cheek, which is so annoying. But, you know, skin changes over time, and it can be so overwhelming to figure out the right products for your skin. Which is why we're excited to partner with Apostrophe, the sponsor of this episode. Apostrophe's goal is to help you feel confident in your own skin. Whether you're dealing with breakouts, signs of aging, or acne scarring, Apostrophe will help you love the skin you're in. Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Through Apostrophe, you can get access to oral and topical medications that use clinically proven ingredients. To help clear acne, simply fill out an online consultation about your skin goals and medical history. Then snap a few selfies and a dermatology provider will create a customized treatment plan just for you. Apostrophe offers access to prescription treatments for all types of acne, from hormonal acne to facial acne and even back, chest and butt acne treat breakouts from head to toe. I famously have only one skincare goal, and it's to make all of my pores disappear and look like a beautiful little doll. And that is extremely hard to achieve by yourself with just like drugstore products. So that's why I love working with Apostrophe, because you know you have access to an expert derm team and they make you a tail treatment plan and then all of it just shows up at your house and you don't have to wait in line at the pharmacy. We have a special deal for our audience. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com gossip when you use our code Gossip, that's a savings of $15. This code is only available to our listeners. To get started, just go to apostrophe.com gossip and click get Started. Then use our code Gossip at signup and you'll get your first Visit for only $5. Thank you Apostrophe, for sponsoring this episode.

[Kelsey McKinney]

One of the most forbidden topics in gossip is money. What's going on in your checking account? You would never, ever, ever ask your friend because you don't want to be asked what's going on in your checking account because God knows what's going on in there. Every, like six months, we all have a realization that's like, I should probably get serious about my finances. I should probably learn what a budget is. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make serious money moves. Take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee free overdri graphs up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in two [e-mail] gossip that's chime.com gossip Chime feels like progress. Banking Services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank, NA or Stride bank in a Members FDIC Spot Me Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in Spotme and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. Emily Is like, so I think that this is the future polyamory, and I think this is a great idea. And I think me and Sasha should just be in an open relationship.

[Gabby Windy]

I feel like Emily is kind of all of us who are just so down bad and trying to make excuses and be like, okay, this is okay. I'm just learning a new part about myself. Like, I can morph into what anyone else wants me to be. And I'm using education as a crutch now. I really smart.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So.

[Gabby Windy]

And, like, credible. It could work.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily goes to Sasha and she's like, would you be interested in, like, trying us again, but differently?

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha's like, what are you talking about?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily's like, okay. So I read the Ethical Slut, and I think there's, like, a lot of options for us where we could, like, open our relationship. She's like, telling her all these things that she learned in the book. She's like, we could do all of these things. Like, here are some options we have. Have. And Sasha's like, I can totally see a pathway in which there's, like, a possibility for us to approach romantic entanglement. Like, I can totally see that.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily is, like, swooning.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. She's like. She's one of me. Our ideals are so aligned. We think the same. We're meant to be together.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And Emily's like, we're not going to be naive about it. We're not going to be children about it. Like, we're going to be sophisticated.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. At 19.

[Kelsey McKinney]

At 19. And the way that we'll be as sophisticated is we will have boundaries.

[Gabby Windy]

Right. Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she is, like, the boundaries that we're going to make. They talk about it together, and she and Emily come up there. Like, here are our boundaries. No hooking up with shared friends.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay. Which it's like, all lesbians have shared friends, so that immediately isn't a thing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

First dibs on, like, birthdays and holidays go to each other. Right. So, like, on your birthday, I get to see you on your birthday if I want to.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And every week we're gonna go on a little date and, like, talk about stuff.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay. This. Yeah. This all seems very, like, obligatory, which I feel like is the opposite of a relationship. Like, you shouldn't. I understand boundaries and stuff, but as far as rules go, it's like, well, what if Sasha wants to do it with the other girlfriend or whatever? And then you feel obligated, and then it takes all the fun out of the relationship and then resentment Starts to build. I'm on to them.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This at first goes great.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily dates someone else in addition to Sasha, and she's like, this is perfect. I have two girlfriends. Yeah. She's like, I feel secured, I feel loved, I feel happy.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay. Wow. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

One night she's, like, out late with this new girlfriend. She comes back and her roommate Harper is out. And she's like, oh, this sucks. I wanted to, like, like, talk to somebody about this, Right?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she texts Harper and is like, hey, like, where are you? I want to discuss my date. And Harper's like, oh, I'm like, staying out tonight.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily's like, okay. But that's also terrible for me, right? Because who am I going to talk to about this?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That week she goes to class, she and Sasha write this, like, lovely, hot song about going out dancing with somebody that you're attracted to. And Emily's like, this is so good. I'm so proud. But she's also in the back of her mind, like, we don't go out dancing.

[Gabby Windy]

Literally. That's what I was gonna say. Like, who is this song about?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's getting, like, a creepy feeling of jealousy.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

A couple weeks later, it's Sasha's birthday, and Emily's like, I planned you a beautiful, romantic picnic. Sasha's like, perfect, I'll see you at 4. And Emily's like, great, great. But when Sasha shows up to the picnic, she's, like, tired and cranky and hot. And Emily is like, what's going on? Why are you so tired and cranky? And Sasha's like, oh, I just, like, I went to the beach this morning. And so I'm like, a little sun tired.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay. Sketchy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, okay, whatever. So she's like, she's feeling a little bad. And then when she goes back to her dorm room, she notices that Harper has a sunburn.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, I'm dead. No, not Harper. I was hoping there would be, like, some kind of villain, and I think I found her out.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you confront Harper? Like, you're in the room with her. She's your roommate. She has a sunburn, which is not necessarily damning, but feels damning.

[Gabby Windy]

Right, Right. I can just imagine her stomach's in her butt. So I feel like I would just. Yeah. Ask her, like, oh, my God, where'd you get that sun? You know, just ask, like, questions around it to try and find out more of the situation. I don't know if I would accuse her right away, but I would definitely like, in a roundabout way. Try.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Emily's like, oh, my God, what were you doing today?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Harper's like, oh, you know, just, like, piddling around.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. The fuck is piddling, Harper.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Emily is like, but, like, it looks like you got a lot of sun.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Harper's like, oh, yeah. I was just outside all morning.

[Gabby Windy]

You're like, were you outside with my girlfriend? Say it, yes or no?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily, like, literally cracks and she's like, is there something going on with you and Sasha?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. A woman's intuition.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Harper's like, I don't know. I wouldn't say that anything's, like, going on. I think we're just, like, feeling each other a little bit.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. Criminal. What the fuck?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Now what do you do?

[Gabby Windy]

Immediately cry, move my stuff. Change my career once again. Just like, get the fuck out. I would go. I mean, I would confront Sasha and break everything in her room, like, J wow style. And JP and be like, I know what the fuck is going on. This was a clear boundary.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Emily goes immediately to Sasha's room and she's like, are you with Harper?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, tell me to my face. Like, don't fuck around. And Sasha's like, I mean, I do like her. And Emily is like, this is two rules broken. Right. Because you spent the morning of your birthday with Harper and she's really cracking down. Harper is quite literally my friend because we live in. In the same room.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. And they were, like, hanging out, doing family trees, getting really close. Like, that's way too close to home.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Emily is like, this sucks. Like, you've made me feel really bad. Like, I don't know what to do here. But she's also, like, this open relationship was my idea.

[Gabby Windy]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe I do want an open relationship, but, like, not with Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's okay to be wrong. Emily. Don't hold yourself, like, too accountable or get mad at yourself at this point and be like, I tried it and I don't want it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So she's basically, like, to her credit, full of strength. She's like, this is not working for me.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, I don't want this.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha's like, oh, that sucks. Like, I'm really disappointed to hear that. Like, I thought that we were kind of, like, on this journey together. And I think that, like, the multidimensionality of these conflicts is part of what this is about.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. This feels like gaslighting in a way. I don't know. I don't know who's at Fault here, it's hard to say. But I do want to blame Sasha for everything. Not the main character.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily's like, if you're, if you think that this like multi dimensionality of conflict is interesting, then like, this is never going to work. Like, I don't want to do this.

[Gabby Windy]

No, this is actually trauma and pain.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, I'm out. Like, no, more like goodbye. And Sasha's like, okay, that's sad.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But again, she's in the same problem when she's like, she's seeing them everywhere because she like lives with Harper.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh my God. She cannot escape.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She can't escape. And like she kind of tells Harper, like, you need to spend more time in Sasha's room.

[Gabby Windy]

Room.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because like, you've put me in this scenario.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So like she does this, which is nice, but it's still like you're going to class with Sasha. You are like having to see her all the time.

[Gabby Windy]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then one day she goes to class near the end of the semester and Sasha is wearing Emily's tie, dyed overalls.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh my God. No, not the overalls. It's like way too close to home.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. What do you do here?

[Gabby Windy]

Take them off of her. Use physical force and take back your shit.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Emily's like, you need to give this back to me. Like, those are mine. I loaned them to Harper. Like, give them back. And Sasha's like, I'll totally give them back. I didn't realize. Like, I'm sorry, but I'm literally wearing them right now, so I'll give them back to you later.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She does not.

[Gabby Windy]

No. Oh my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We skip forward. It is the last day of class. Now they are presenting their songs. Emily singing her songs. They are all about heartbreak.

[Gabby Windy]

Naturally. She gets an A. Yeah, she gets an A.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Plus Sasha is presenting all of her songs and they're all about like taking mushrooms and Harper.

[Gabby Windy]

What the fud. Sasha at least pretend like she has like no regard for Emily's feelings at all. Which is kind of annoying because like I'm Emily in this scenario, but I do wish I was Sasha. It's people who are like just like a little bit more self unaware are like happier, but everyone around them is more miserable. But it's like they don't know the difference.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Also, some of the songs that Sasha has on her like album, her completed project, are songs that like they worked on together, both of them.

[Gabby Windy]

And Sasha's like, these are great. Don't you love them? And Emily's like, I want to kill myself.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Literally. Yes, exactly. Emily is like, I need to move on from these girls. Right? Like, I cannot do this. So when the semester ends, she's like, I need new friends. And she's like, you know who I know? Bailey. She's like, bailey, hello. We kissed one time. Can I sleep on your couch? And Bailey's like, of course you can sleep on my couch.

[Gabby Windy]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's now free, Right. She's spending more time at their apartment. She doesn't have to see Sasha and Harper anymore. She stays on the west coast all summer, has a great time with Bailey.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, thank God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But she hears through the rumor mill that Sasha and Harper have gotten an apartment together.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, tragic. But it's okay. Like, life is going to go on without you. Just, like, keep ignoring it. Don't go on social media, like, with my breakups. Like, because, you know, friends, like, love to screenshot and send you things.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Gabby Windy]

And I'm like, don't. Don't do that. Don't. I don't want to know. I don't want to know who he's dating. Like, just, like, it's. I love. Ignorance is bliss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So she's like, this is great. They're not here anymore. I'm with this new crew of friends. Like, I'm feeling more confident. I'm going on dates all summer. She has a great time.

[Gabby Windy]

Good.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Doesn't hear from them, you know, like, mutes. All their stories.

[Gabby Windy]

And literally perfect.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. In bliss.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Then in early fall semester, the next year, she gets a text.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the text is from Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the text is like, I have some of your stuff from, like, when we lived together. Can I bring it by?

[Gabby Windy]

Why? This is, like, so much later. Obviously, Emily hasn't been worrying about it because she didn't ask for her stuff back. And those are the things I hate about breakups. It's like, oh, you want your crusty underwear?

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Gabby Windy]

Throw it out. Exactly. Like, I'm doing you a favor.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Emily is like, she would be 100% in line with you, but she's like, I want my overalls back.

[Gabby Windy]

Like, these gospel overalls. Just tie. Dye your own. Like, just do it again. Just make your own pair. Chalk it up as a loss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, sure, you can bring them by. Like, my apartment on this date. And Sasha's like, okay. So Sasha shows up with a box, and in the box is, like, a waffle iron and, like, one of those shower caddy things that you like to a shared bathroom. And Like a phone charger?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Everything but the overalls and things that you don't care about.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And Emily has, like, prepared for this, right? So she's like, I'm saying nothing. I'm like, thank you for making my stuff back. Zip. Nothing else.

[Gabby Windy]

Mm.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha's like, this is so awkward. Like, I feel like it's really awkward between us.

[Gabby Windy]

And Emily's like, yes, well, obviously you're, like, dating my best friend and you've put me through so much. Like, it's going to be awkward.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And then Sasha takes a deep breath, and she's like, I want you to hear this directly from me.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We are getting married this Saturday.

[Gabby Windy]

This Saturday?

[Kelsey McKinney]

This Saturday.

[Gabby Windy]

What the fuck? This kind of not the same thing, but something similar has happened to me. What? I am Emily. I tell you. I'm listening to my story, but not. Not to the extreme. But I was dating this doctor. He was, like, my last serious relations before Robbie. And we work together, obviously. And, like, the. The lines were blurred and, like, we were still talking after our breakup. Whatever, whatever. And then he calls me, like, just to talk. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is it. We're gonna get back together. Like, I have regretted the breakup. And he's like, be nice. He's like, well, I'm just calling you to tell you I'm in a new relationship and she's doing a rotation on your unit next week. I'm like, fuck you. Fuck everyone.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You do not burn this place to the ground.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, literally. I'm like, so you didn't call the doctor, say you, like, desperately miss me and I am the love of your life?

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're like, hang up. Block number.

[Gabby Windy]

Right, Exactly. So just send me a text. Like, at least he didn't show up, like, face to face. Sasha really thinks highly of herself, that she needs to, like, do this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily is like. She takes a deep breath and she's like, thank you so much for letting me know I have things to do. Goodbye.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, literally. Also, I would have been fine without knowing. Like, we've. We've moved on. I'll see the photos on Instagram, talk mad shit. But, like, what do you owe me? We're not together anymore. So you're just making it worse.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. On Saturday, the Saturday, she starts getting photos from her friends that are like. And then underneath it is a photo, like, shot from far away across the park. And it's like, clearly, clearly Harper and Sasha in white dresses.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it's, like, so performative art Piece, Right. Like, there are more photos coming in and it's like flower crowns, right? A theremin, glitter all over their faces, them under a big tree in the park.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Yeah. This does sound like a college wedding. It's like, you guys get your together. You're embarrassing yourselves.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Emily's like, this is kind of great for me because, like, I'm able to, like, have a little bit of closure here.

[Gabby Windy]

Here, Right, Totally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then she logs onto Instagram and they've posted like, an Instagram post, right? Like a kind of blurry, like, tied up on their face with, like, glitter everywhere. And the caption is a lyric. And the lyric says, young love may be stupid, but I'd be stupid forever for you.

[Gabby Windy]

And did Emily write that lyric?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily fucking wrote it. Yes. No. Emily's like, that's my lyrics. Like, I wrote that line.

[Gabby Windy]

No, I literally can't with Sasha. Like, no coups, no morals.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily does not fave the post. She does not comment.

[Gabby Windy]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She dms it to, like, 15 people. She's like, send to my friends.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We are almost at the very end. How do you feel? Whose side are you on?

[Gabby Windy]

I'm. I've. I'm definitely on Emily's. I mean, like, I can understand people. No, I can't understand people. Like, I know they exist in the world. And again, I wish I was Sasha, because they just, like, don't give a fuck about other people. Yeah, I don't actually wish that, but it's like, are those people happier? Like, because they don't really have consequences and stuff, and they get to live in this world of delusion? Like, what I would give for a little dulu.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Like, having a little delusion as a treat might be nice.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, exactly. But I'm an Emily Stan. I'm here for her. Like, I hope since then she's, like, really made it through. I'm sure she's had to be in years of therapy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. She's very brave. They have a couple more classes together over the course of their, like, program.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They graduate. Emily gets a job. She's, like, working on real songs in the industry. She gets a girlfriend. She's like, I'm feeling so great.

[Gabby Windy]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She moves into this little house in this little neighborhood, and she, like, goes. You know, they're like, there's like a close coffee shop, so we'll, like, walk there and get a little coffee in the morning.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She walks in, behind the counter is a barista.

[Gabby Windy]

It's Sasha.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's Sasha.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's wearing the overalls.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God. These tragic overalls need to be burned. They literally need to be lit on fire.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she has cropped them.

[Gabby Windy]

No. Like, yeah, probably like, at the knees, like, into shorts. Okay. Yeah. And like, you know, the lesbians love to wear the long shorts with the cowboy boots.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Do you ask for them back?

[Gabby Windy]

Fuck no. No, I don't.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What are you doing here? You're turning around and leaving?

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, well, they're, like, so tainted. I'd be like, oh, nice overalls, you crazy bitch. Then take my coffee and go.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily is like, you know, she wants her coffee. So she, like, goes up, she orders, and she's like, it's so good to see you. Like, this is my girlfriend, so? And so whatever. And she's like, I know it's weird, but, like, those overalls are mine. And, like, I would like them back.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, Emily, give it up, though. This is like, I've had your back until this moment.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Sasha's like, it's so good to see you too. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, you're right. These are yours. Like, I'll go change. I'll give them back to you.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily's like, great.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She gets her coffee. She's, you know, like, sipping her little iced out latte. She's, like, sitting there waiting.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Two minutes pass, five minutes pass. Ten minutes just dipped.

[Gabby Windy]

She's like, you're never getting these overalls back. This is like a heist. And I'm escaping, literally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Emily goes to the counter and is like, where's Sasha? She was supposed to, like, bring me something. And the other baristas are like, oh, Sasha went home. She had, like, some kind of family emergency.

[Gabby Windy]

A family emergency. She is so crazy for this, for these.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She escaped.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, this is so nuts. Like, taking it way too far. I gotta get me a pair.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You gotta get a pair.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah. Knowing what kind of power they have over people.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So Emily is like, this sucks. She's like, but also, now I know that you live in my neighborhood. So, like, I will see this girl again.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah, yeah. She's like, on the hunt out, police patrolling, like, looking for these overalls. She's like, this. Yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But she is happy now, which is great. So it all turned out fine.

[Gabby Windy]

I know. Big flex that she showed up with a girlfriend.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Nothing better than running into an ex. When you look great and are like, it's so good to see you.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh, my God, absolutely. In your happy relationship, it's like where you divorce in my overalls. You can't in my overalls.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Give them back.

[Gabby Windy]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Gabby, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you.

[Gabby Windy]

Oh my God. Thank you. I had so much fun.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This podcast is produced by Alex who, John Laughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman. Justin Ellis is Defectors Project's editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. J. Tolviera is our associate producer. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show Art. Thank you to Jasper Wang, Katherine Shu, Patrick Redford, Israel Daramola, Ray Ratto, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna and Luis Paez Pumar for your help on this season and thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company and Normal Gossip is a proud member of radiotopia. I'm Kelsey McKinney and please remember you did not hear this from Radiotopia from prx.