Not Just the Tudors: "Tudor True Crime: The First Female Serial Killer?"

Podcast: Not Just the Tudors by History Hit
Host: Professor Suzannah Lipscomb
Guest: Katherine Kemp, author of A Poisonous Tale
Air Date: March 19, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the captivating legend of Giulia Tofana, the infamous 17th-century Italian poisoner often described as the first female serial killer. Professor Suzannah Lipscomb interviews Katherine Kemp, exploring what is myth, what is fact, and what lies in the fertile territory between legend and the archival record. Themes of survival, power, gender, historical storytelling, and the constraints of women’s lives in early modern Europe are woven throughout the conversation.

1. Setting the Scene: Who Was Giulia Tofana?

(Start: 02:19)

• The Legend: Giulia Tofana is described as a notorious poisoner who enabled hundreds of women to kill their abusive husbands with a colorless, tasteless toxin known as Aqua Tofana.
• Historical Uncertainty: Kemp raises doubts about Giulia Tofana’s existence as a single mastermind, suggesting she may have been a composite of several real women involved in a network of poisoners.
  • "We have to ask, was there [a] Giulia Tofana?" — Katherine Kemp (05:21)
• Key Fact: The historical record is fragmented; Giulia’s name does not appear on key trial documents or among those executed in 1659.

2. The Evolution of a Legend

(05:21 – 08:05)

• A Story Retold: The legend asserts that Giulia, following in the footsteps of her mother Teofania d’Adamo, fled Sicily—then Naples—before establishing herself in Rome, where she formed a circle of apothecaries, midwives, and healers.
• "The general legend... is that Giulia was born in the 1620s... her mother created the poison... Giulia then fled..." — Katherine Kemp (06:39)
• Their Mission: Dispensing poison, sometimes for free, to women trapped in abusive marriages, in what some might call acts of vigilante justice.

3. Poison as a "Female Crime" and Survival Strategy

(08:05 – 14:23)

• Lack of Options: Under Catholic law, divorce was unobtainable for most; wives were property whose maltreatment was accepted—even expected—by society.
• "Women were expected to take beatings. This was part of marriage... they were owned by their husbands..." — Katherine Kemp (10:56)
• Community Support: Leaving an abusive husband meant abandoning children, family, and security—an almost unimaginable prospect.
• Secret Apothecaries: The circle of poisoners ran what appeared to be an apothecary or cosmetics business, enabling some degree of female independence—unacceptable to church and state authorities.

4. Separating Fact from Fiction: Evidence and Recent Discoveries

(14:23 – 18:29)

• Archival Silence: Pre-2021, little direct evidence existed. Most of the story was legend until Craig Monson uncovered hundreds of pages of Vatican Inquisition trial documents.
  • "Thank goodness, at first it seemed that it threw out the story and the legend of Julia, because she wasn’t there." — Katherine Kemp (14:23)
• Suppressed Scandal: Documents describe the operation and abuses women faced, but the Pope hid the archives to prevent scandal and the dissemination of the poison recipe.
  • "The Pope... ordered that the transcripts be hidden, not accessed, because it was such a scandalous part of the past." — Kemp (15:40)

5. How Was the Circle Discovered and Punished?

(17:15 – 24:57)

• Initial Exposure: Discovery began when a woman confessed to her priest about poisoning her husband but then reversed her decision. Domino-effect confessions followed as more women came forward, leading to a climate of fear and suspicion.
• Role of Torture: Some, but not all, members of the circle were tortured; confessions were integral to convictions, paralleling witchcraft prosecutions.
  • "Some members... were tortured and some weren't. There was an idea that it would make a mockery, that because these women were witches, it would make a mockery trying to torture them..." — Kemp (21:13)
• Execution and Legacy: Five women are documented as executed on July 5, 1659. Giulia Tofana’s daughter is named, but not Giulia herself.

6. Gender, Rumor, and Social Status

(24:57 – 29:07)

• Dissemination by Word of Mouth: Knowledge of the network spread in the few spaces women could convene—mass, washing streams, markets.
• Covert Power: Gossip served as a "hidden transcript" (James C. Scott), an underground form of resistance women wielded through storytelling.
  • "You cannot control what women say to each other behind their hands. And that’s what they hated about it." — Kemp (27:20)
• Social Reach: The network cut across social classes—even aristocrats (e.g., Duchess Aldebrandini) sought its services.

7. Why Has Giulia Tofana’s Story Endured?

(30:32 – 33:04)

• A Symbolic Figure: The idea of Giulia as a single bold woman is compelling—a rebel and an outcast, a "poster girl" for resistance.
  • "She’s a really seductive idea and a really seductive figure... creating her as a single character absolutely felt like it was bringing something to life." — Kemp (30:51)
• Fascination with Female Agency: The legend quickly spread through Europe, reflecting enduring cultural intrigue over women who forged their own destinies—even darkly.

8. Historical Fiction: Responsibility, Process, and Creative Gaps

(33:04 – 41:10)

• Fact vs. Imagination: Kemp discusses the challenges and responsibilities of bringing an unclear historical story to life in fiction.
  • "There’s a continual kind of push and pull between the facts... and the point where, as a novelist, you go to work." — Kemp (33:43)
• Authenticity: The need to avoid transplanting modern attitudes onto early modern women—a risk Kemp acknowledges is complex and subjective.
  • "There's nothing I can do about being a woman writing today." — Kemp (35:56)
• Embodied Research: Both Kemp and Lipscomb stress the importance of "footprint research"—visiting historical sites to channel the world of their subjects.
• Motivation: Kemp describes her work as a calling—a longstanding passion for recovering women’s stories from obscurity.

9. New Horizons: Icelandic Witch Trials

(39:44 – 41:10)

• Next Project: Kemp is writing on the Kirkjuból Affair, an Icelandic witch trial. Unlike elsewhere, Iceland’s witchcraft prosecutions largely targeted men, offering a new frontier for exploring gender and persecution narratives.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the bleak realities of early modern marriage
  "Women were expected to take beatings. This was part of marriage." — Katherine Kemp (10:56)

• On rumor as hidden power
  "You can have your laws, you can have all your money, but you cannot control what women say to each other behind their hands." — Kemp (27:20)

• On the writer’s imaginative leap
  "There’s a continual push and pull between the facts... and the point where, as a novelist, you go to work." — Kemp (33:43)

• On Giulia Tofana’s enduring allure
  "We’re always intrigued by women who take life into their own hands, who forge their destiny, however dark it is." — Kemp (32:10)

Key Timestamps

• 02:19 — Introduction of Julia Tofana and themes
• 05:21 — Kemp clarifies historical doubts about Julia Tofana
• 08:05 — Motives and conditions for poisonings
• 10:56 — Honest depiction of marriage and gender roles
• 14:23 — Recent archival research, revelations and gaps
• 17:20 — Unraveling of the poisoners’ network
• 21:13 — Torture, confessions, and trial procedure
• 27:20 — Hidden transcripts and power of rumor
• 30:51 — The mythic appeal of Julia Tofana
• 33:43 — The tension between historical fact and fiction
• 39:44 — Kemp’s next work on Icelandic witch trials

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich, nuanced exploration of the ways marginalized women’s survival strategies were demonized and mythologized in early modern Europe. Both host and guest deftly intertwine historical investigation with questions of narrative, rumor, and the power—and danger—of the stories we continue to tell about women who refused to remain powerless.