← Not Skinny But Not Fat
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
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Welcome back to the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hello, Blue. Hi, everybody. Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to a new episode of Not Skinny, Not Fat. It's your girl, Amanda. What's up, guys? My God, you know when you have a busy week coming up and you're like. And you're like, literally, like, it's such a busy week, but at the same time, I will say that I am a type. I am a person that likes being busy. Like, on days that I'm like, from thing. The thing, I'm like, I feel good. You know what I mean? Like, if I feel good, I feel good. You know, I mean, if I'm from thing. The thing, and I, like, forgot to drink water or eat and I get a headache and I'm like, you know, dragging, then I'm not happy. But if I'm from thing to thing and I'm thriving and I end the day and I'm in the car on the way back home and I'm like, damn, I feel good. Always hungry, always need to be ordering food while I'm in the Uber home. But, yeah, I love to be busy, which is why it's funny that I also dread when there is a lot coming up and a lot of good stuff. You know what I mean? Like, good, you know, rich people problems. I don't know if that's something that's me translating from Hebrew, I think. Oh, it's high class problems. Okay, high class problems, whatever. Obviously it's not problems. It's just like, it's a lot. So next week, what's happening Tuesday, I'm doing my apartment redecoration. What do you call it? I also, like, can't speak English. Like, apartment. It's not a renovation. It's like a redesign. I'm having the girls over at Klein and Crane. Kramer Design. Lauren and Kim. Shout out to Lauren and Kim and the amazing Frank from Home Interiors, who's custom making all the furniture. Well, they've been working on it for months upon months. And we're actually doing just the. The, like, entryway, which leads into the living room, which leads into the playroom, which leads into the dining room. Because, like, I live in a New York City apartment, which is funny that at the same time that I'm working on this for the past few months with these lovely designers customizing all my furniture, which is wild. Was sending me listings to the listings in New Jersey. I'm like, not only does he want to move to New Jersey, he wants to buy in New Jersey before we even, like, know if we like it. Like, I can't commit like that, which is funny. I've been married for 15 years. But, like, I can. I'm like, I am not buying anything right away in a place I've never lived before. I don't care that you can sell it. Like, I'm not doing that anyway. I'm like, do you know that we're, like, fucking changing our whole apartment right now? Like, how. Anyway, that's part of it. So it's two days. The whole install is two days. And I'm overwhelmed by it. Like, I want it to happen, but I'm also, like, thinking of having to get everything out and then have everything come in is, like, overwhelming me. And at the same time, I have, like, things and things and things. We have the Hulu show filming Get Real, which I hope you guys are watching on Hulu. It's such a dream come true for me to be, like, hosting a show that isn't my own show, that isn't this the hosting, like, a talk show vibe show, which is what Get Real is so definitely a dream come true. And last night, I went to the Hollywood Reporters Most Powerful People in Media event. You know, I have to, like, really, like, just tell you how these events work. It's, like, invited to this event. It's so chic. I'm going to go. They're honoring Stephen Colbert. It's at the Daniel, which is on the Upper east side. Beautiful. Beautiful. Now, the reason. And I know I'm in my year of yes, or I'm on my second year of yes. But why I've been a no is like, do you know what you have to do to go to an event? Like, not to be like Simone Biles right now? I mean, I didn't pay 23k, but yes, you have to invest. Like, you're going to have your picture taken. You want to look good. You want to, like, do glam, get a nice dress, pay for a stylist if you need help. And that's it, right? It's like the glam and the fit, but that's like, also hours of your time getting ready with the glam and the getting dressed and everything for maybe an hour and a half, like, of the party, you know, because it was a mingling event. So it was like red carpet and then, like mingling and I was, you know, and, and so like, Simone Biles is getting some shit. I don't know if she's getting shit, but like 23k. Like we are trying to figure out like how it amounted to 23k. I don't know if you guys saw Simone Biles was saying, like, I don't. I'm staying home from now on because I tried to go to an event and I paid 23k just for the glam and the styling. But I don't know, like, did she buy a really expensive designer dress? Like, I don't know, like, did she get like anything specially made for her? Like, I don't know what they were charging her, but that was a little bit wild. Anyway, at the Hollywood Reporter event, I was telling this story to my friends and they were dying. So I'm on the carpet and USA Today was there. They were doing this like, game and it's so loud at the party. It was like I said, just mingling music. And the guy, the reporter from USA Today goes, okay, so Amanda, I want to play a game with you. It's called yay or what? I heard gay. And I'm like in my head, like computing quickly like, yay or gay? Like, that doesn't sound right. Like, what the nay is gay? Like, what are we in 1945? Like, what is happening? And I say to him like, yay, you're gay. And he goes, yeah, because he couldn't hear me because it was so loud. And I say it again, yay or gay? He goes, yeah, but he's hearing yay or nay. I'm hearing yay or gay. Confirming with him that that's what he's saying. He's confirming. And in my mind I'm like, it can't be, it can't be that. The, the, the, the what you would think is nay, he's putting gay. Like I'm going to say something not good is gay. Like, what, what is. What is happening? This can't be true. But that's what he's saying. He's confirming. So then the whole time I'm just saying yay to everything. Because I'm like, I'm not going to call something gay. That's, that's like bad. That's not even the worst part, cuz I get through that. I say yay to everything. Then I go to the party. I literally talk shit the whole party. I'm spreading a rumor. USA Today is doing a game called Yay or gay. And I'm telling like important people this story. I'm like, could you believe the USA today is playing Yay or gay? Flash forward to them posting that bit and them writing playing yay or nay with not skinny but not fat. And I'm like, of course you were playing a or nay. Like, what the helly did I think? Did I do. Did I say and did I create like, am I bored in my life that I'm creating drama? Oh my God, I was dying. Anyway, let's get into today's episode which I can't explain to you how much this woman has like entered my heart. Like, I'm still talking about her. There's still moments on the pod that I'm thinking about. Listening to her book was just, I felt so like connected to her and we know a lot of mutual people and she's written me like really beautiful notes before and I just could tell she was a special person. And then listening to her book and then meeting her and having this conversation with her, like, you'll see how much she is such a special person. Jamie Lynn Sigler. You know her, Meadow Soprano. It's funny, I tell her what she meant to me. Like it kind of ties, ties into to me, the host of the show. And she really is in my heart now. I'm like, you know, like that happens sometimes in life where I'm like, no, I love her. Like you could tell she's a special person. If you guys haven't heard about her book is called and so it is. It's out now and and she details like hiding Ms. From the world from everybody for about like 15 years. Like she, she got diagnosed with it when she was still on the Sopranos. So here it is. Enjoy my conversation with Jamie Lynn Sigler.
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How's your strut? Is it better?
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I'm better, so don't worry, I'm not going.
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I wasn't even where my head was at.
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I'm psychedelic times of like scared that people will think I'm infecting them.
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I'm like the least we talk about it really the least germaphobe. I, I, I'm like embarrassed how little I think about it.
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Stop. I know you're so like health conscious.
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I know you think I would be care more. No, I guess I just care about so many other. I don't have the bandwidth.
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B
No. Yeah, yeah. It's like we have more important things going on in the world. But I got strep again and then I Got food poisoning. Like. Or it's the antibiotics. Sometimes you don't know, like, what's going on.
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Yes.
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But I vomit, like, two days after the strep, and I think it was from Nobu.
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Oh.
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Or antibiotics that are killing my gut again. I'll have to do, like, a, like, toxic flush or something. Always so dumb. Hi, my love. Hi, jls. Yes. In the house.
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In the house. I'm so happy I've. I have followed you and been such a fan of you for so long. You feel like my people, and then as my people have met you and they would be like, you would love her. I'm like, I know I would. I already do.
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I love that. Your notes, because I received a couple from you. Your notes?
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Yes.
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Like, with your book. I. The note you wrote to me about how I've always shared my authentic self. And this is your. You sharing your authentic self. I love that so much.
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Thank you.
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You're such a. I mean, I don't know if it was just in this book, but, like, you're. You seem like the type of person also with your friends that are obsessed with you and have your schedule and are on your PR team, just a person that is so. People connect with so much. The way you just put yourself out there and. And share, like, the raw, vulnerable, emotional moments.
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That's newer, though, you know, And I owe that a lot to my friends for sort of giving me the safe space to bring that out. And I think for many years, I was like, they were just trying to get me to see myself through their eyes and see what I just couldn't see. And I think them accepting me and loving me and teaching me that none of the things that have happened to me define me or take away my value or my worth. I just owe so much of who I am today to my friends and the way that they've loved me for sure.
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Which is so, I feel, like, important because you're married, you have a family, but you still had such a special place for your friends in your life.
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Oh, my gosh.
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But also in the book.
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Yes.
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And that's, you know, the people that we. We know in common there. You're like, people, people. They go back with you, what, 20 years?
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Yeah. More. Yeah.
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Wow.
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Yeah. They've seen all of the phases of me and all of the colors of me and this evolution because for so many years, they held secrets for me and they held, you know, information and version and things about me that I just wasn't ready to share with the world. I never Felt like I could or should. And to have their support and their reminding and also, you know, they've shown up for me in really hard times in my life and reminded me also, like, the friend that I am back. You know what I mean? It's. Yeah, that's also important.
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You can't have friends like that if you're not a friend like that.
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Yeah, yeah. I mean, I. I ride hard for my friends and I think they know that. I hope they know that I have
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to go back even more. And I think I dmed you this because it's udemy. You know, Meadow soprano. I told you I went to acting class when I was 14. Yeah. In New york city. And the reason I chose this acting class was because they had your poster. I don't know if you even went there.
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I did. Oh, you took commercial class. Was it acting?
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Acting, yes.
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Well, this is when I was.
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I was like, if meadow went here, then I'm going here.
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I. I did. You know, I. I grew up on long island. I did all community theater. And then in the summers, I would, like, try to find like professional acting classes in new york city because I wasn't in school, so I had the time. So my mom would drop me off at acting on those summer days and I would take like. Yeah, commercial classes.
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It was like those classes that you then watch yourself.
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I know, so bizarre. I remember they had us, like, create a commercial and I did mine about a trapper keeper. Do you remember trapper keepers?
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No.
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Oh, you would have to get these binders for school every year, like where you would go, you know, school supply shopping. And there was a thing called trapper keepers and it was like a velcro and you could get like lisa frank ones or like all the virgins. So, yeah, I did a commercial about trapper keepers.
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You made up a commercial about it?
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I did.
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And then had to watch yourself and have the whole class, like, critique you.
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Correct.
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And how did you handle that as a cause? I. I couldn't take that. I was disgusted with myself.
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I hated it, to be honest. I thought that was further proof that I was never meant to be on camera and that I was just meant to be in the theater. Because I honestly, all I would go out for when anything professional was for commercial auditions. And I would always get no's because they wanted you in a box. She was like, either quote, unquote, all american, which usually meant you were like blonde, red hair with freckles, you were hispanic, and I wasn't hispanic looking enough. So I just Never fit any boxes. So I just never thought I would be on tv.
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So you loved, loved, loved theater?
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Yes.
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But the on camera, you. You weren't sure of.
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I just didn't feel like there was a place for me. I just didn't feel like I looked like somebody that could be on camera.
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But I was wondering about you, because in your book. And so it is. You talk about, you know, the kind of kid that you were a little bit, and then the kind of, you know, woman that you become. But a lot of times when people are like child actors or stars, you go back and their home videos are like. They're like huge extroverts. And you don't sound that way.
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No.
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So. So tell me about that.
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It's almost like performing became this escape for me. I was so riddled with insecurities and fear of the world. I was raised by an immigrant mother who came from Cuba who, you know, had her own traumatic upbringing. And in a way to sort of protect myself, they were my. Her and my grandmother would always tell me, like, everybody's jealous. Be careful of other women. And so I just had this, like. And me, as somebody who, like, desperately just wants to be liked and connect with people, I just kind of didn't know how to do that. But in performing, I did. Like, on stage, I did. I could fall into another role. I could fall into another sort of person's way of being that felt safe and comfortable, and I could express myself safely in that way. And it just felt. Yeah, it just felt fun. It was like the. The time that I could actually be a kid was when I was performing.
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So your mom is the Cuban?
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Yeah.
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Is that the Jewish side?
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No, my dad was born in Brooklyn. He's Greek, Romanian, Sephardic Jew.
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Okay.
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But she converted to Judaism when she married my dad.
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Oh, she did. Because all the. The prayers that you were talking about that your mom and Mima, those were, like, Latin.
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Yeah.
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And Mima's still with us?
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No, she passed away two days before her 103rd birthday.
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I saw she celebrated one hundred and something. I'm like, we'. But I wanted to know.
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Yes.
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How so.
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Okay.
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But she sounded like such an amazing woman.
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The greatest human. 103.
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A day before.
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Day before, she was at her 103rd birthday party at a Cuban restaurant on Long island with my family, and she walked out and died in the parking lot. Just dropped dead in a total. She had literally was taking tequila shots right before. Like, that's what a legend she is.
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Wow, that is amazing. May we all that's right. May we all.
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Exactly.
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And you're a taurus. Birthday is 15. A few a bit away.
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Yeah, yeah. Very close.
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I love Tauruses, by the way. I'm married to one I get along with. Taurus is really Gemini.
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Okay, so we're like. Yeah, yeah, we're close.
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We're close.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And you do feel like a. Like the kind of Taurus that my husband is, which is a very, like, grounding person, you know? Have you always been that way?
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No, I think I had more of the stubborn Taurus for a really long time. I mean, maybe I gave the appearance of being grounded, but underneath was just, like, an absolute mess. But I think as I've gotten older, I've been able to sort of embody more of that groundedness.
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B
And you said that when you auditioned for the Sopranos, like, your relationship with your mom helped you kind of prepare for that audition. In what way?
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I mean, we did not vibe as when I was a teenager at all. I was really trying to break away. We were so close in, like, a way. Like, she drove me to all my auditions. She was at every performance of mine. And while I can look back and think what an incredible, supportive mother, there was a part of me that, like, didn't want her around all the time and was kind of rebelling. And so we were fighting a lot during that time. So when I was presented with my audition scene of Meadow fighting with Carmela about, like, wanting to go on a ski trip with her friends and her mom not letting her, I was like, oh, this is my life. I know exactly how to do this.
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Did you think you were gonna get the role after the audition? No.
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No, not a chance. I wanted to go to Urban Outfitters in the city in Soho and shop, and that's the only reason I wanted to go to the audition.
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I had Urban Outfitters everything.
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Every day I wanted, like, you know, rubber platforms, whatever they have.
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And it felt bottoms so expensive. Like, I might have, like, walked out with a few things sometimes, like, on my, like, I was like, this hat. Walk out with it on my head.
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No one will know. Busy in there.
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Urban Outfitters. That was a time when he closed in the city.
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I know.
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Yeah.
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I still get excited when I see one.
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I know. So you just wanted to. You were like, I just did another audition. Nothing will come of it.
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No expectations whatsoever. I was ready to finally go to sleepaway camp like every other friend that I grew up with, because this was, what, age 16.
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16.
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So I was going to be a CIT. I was just going to finally get that experience. I was so excited to go, you know, I was the set kind of in between age also in theater, there weren't many roles for me because I was too old to play a kid, too young to play anything else, and finally wanted to know what all this sleepaway camp stuff was about. So that was my focus. So I was, I guess, so blissfully unattached and, you know, available to kind of just like perform without thinking. Pick me.
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Right. That's how it happens. But you can't fake that.
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You cannot fake that.
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B
Like, when you get more desperate, it shows.
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That's right.
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When you're like, I don't care if I get it or not.
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Correct. And I've been desperate more times than not. So I know the difference of that energy.
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B
And I loved in the book how you described, you know, that first day, the table read. I love getting the behind the scenes of these sorts of things, you know.
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Yeah.
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Cuz like, we don't know how this shit works, you know, for sure.
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And it's just. It was a really special alchemy in that room that you just was undeniable. And I was so green. Right. I'm like literally coming from like, just doing Sound of Music at the Y and like, here I am in a room with like, wow, all of these incredibly talented people and I just had no idea how much my life was about to change.
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B
You didn't know at all.
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A
No one did though. None of us did.
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B
And. But you were still living at home, going to set. So how long was that, the situation?
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A
I was at home for the first. So we shot the pilot and there was a whole year in between then actually starting to shoot the first season of the show. So it was my summer going into my junior year, I shot the pilot. And then towards the end of my junior year and senior year, I shot the first season. And by the end of my senior year, it started to air, which was so cool to experience with my friends who had like, seen this, you know, pipe dream of mine.
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B
But the way you were talking about in the book, you were like, no one really cared about it at the beginning.
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A
No. And I liked that.
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B
Yeah.
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I. I love. I was always able to sort of have this kind of like really normal life and then explore show business. And then even when the show began, I. I still wanted to straddle that. I still wanted to just be Jamie Sigler and like, be all the things just my friends knew and then have this. But it was also cool to Be able to celebrate that moment with them.
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B
It sounds like you didn't want to be famous. You wanted to work.
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A
Yes. Which is still the case. Yes.
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B
Really?
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A
Yeah.
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B
So you. That never appealed to you. The, like, glitz and glamour of it
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all terrified me and was really difficult for. For me the first, especially few years because I was heavily, heavily scrutinized and made fun of.
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B
You talked about that. Made fun of, though?
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A
Yeah. I mean, to my face. I mean, I had somebody call me live in a radio show and tell me that they had bets with their friends how much weight I had gained in between seasons.
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B
I cannot. I looked back at. I had. You know, after you talked about the Maxim photo shoot, I was like, she was smoking hot. And in the book, you're talking about, like, them not having your size at photo shoots, being like, oh, she's not sample size. Like, you know, screaming. I'm like, what?
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A
It was kind of ruthless back then, for sure. It. It, it was. You felt immense pressure. And I already was coming into it not feeling like I looked like a Hollywood star and how, you know, these people that I was seeing on the CW shows that I loved look like so. And then to have all that confirmed to my face was. Was really difficult. But thankfully, on the Soprano set, it was anything but right. They didn't care. They just loved me however I was. They just wanted me well. But anytime I stepped out of that, it was really difficult.
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B
And you said you would read, like, blogs, you would go into specific websites at the time and, like, read about, which is like a. No, no, I know, but, like, everyone
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young, like, how could you not. Yeah. HBO had these, like, message boards, and there was one labeled Meadow. And I went to go look, and it was just all mean, all brutal, and I was devastated. Absolutely devastated.
- [22:51]
B
We'll be right back after the break. A quick message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. If you've ever found yourself awake at 2am Your phone is in your hand, you're googling things like, is it normal for my dog to be vomiting yellow bile? Do I need to call the vet right now? Because he ate 17 blueberries. You're not alone. These moments of panic come with being a pet owner. And that's exactly why ASPCA Pet Health Insurance exists. It helps take the financial question out of the question. Okay. So when something feels off with your pet, you can focus on getting them the pet care they need instead of trying to calculate and overstress about what the cost will be when you enroll in ASPCA pet health insurance. You can get a $25Amazon gift card. It's a little treat for you while you're doing something great for your pet. What I love about them is that they offer customizable accident and illness plans, so it's easier to get your pet the care that they may need. They've been around forever. They've covered nearly 1 million pets in about 20 years. Also, you can tailor your plan to fit your budget, your lifestyle, and your pet's quirks. To Explore coverage, visit aspcapetinsurance.com NotSkinny. That's ASPCA pet insurance.com, not Skinny eligibility restrictions apply. Visit aspcapetinsurance.Com AmazonTerms for more info. This is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTC Insurance Agency Ltd. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. Summer is coming up. You need swimwear for the whole family. I know in New York, it's hard to know that summer's coming up because the weather has been just whiplashing the ish out of all of us. But it is coming up. We're in May. Okay, we're in May. We're in the second week of May. It's gonna be May. And if you're looking for a spot to shop swimwear, summerwear, beachy vibes, look no further than Minow. Minow is a family lifestyle brand that embraces really clean lines, simple details, and the crisp seaside breezes. I've told you this before, but Noah saw a friend wearing a swimsuit, and he was obsessed. He was like, I want it. And I was like, I'm gonna find out the brand. I'm gonna get it for you. And it was Mino. And this is before I knew about them. And I bought those trunks right away. They were the gingham design. And it's just, like, there's quality, right? So is it easy to tell when something's, like, made well and it's quality and it's not, like, a trend that passes and it's not fast fashion, and that's Minow. They really have amazing girls. Rashguard1 pieces, boys boardies. Like I just told you about that Noah owns and unisex Rashguard shirts. This summer, Minot goes to Cape Cod, a place defined by tradition rather than discovery. The summer 2026 collection is built for the feeling of being back. Salt air, striped towels and jumps off the dock pieces Made for the summers your kids will remember. Shop the summer collection starting May 14th at shopmanow.com and enter the code meetminow15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order. That's shopmanow.com, the code is meetmanow15 for 15% off your first order. You guys know that today. I'm always trying to be better about routines that actually make me feel good. But ritual has always been a constant for me when I'm pregnant and postpartum. I started taking ritual when I first got pregnant with Noah, and you're told when you gotta take your prenatals, and you listen. But I really did my research on what the best prenatal was, and I found out that it was ritual. I really love that their ingredients are so traceable. It makes it simple, trustworthy, and easy to stay consistent with, and it became part of my routine. Do you know that the postpartum period is even more nutritionally demanding than pregnancy? Well, it is, and a ritual has support for that. They literally tailored nutrient support for all the key phases of pregnancy, from fertility to prenatal to postnatal multis. Healthy postpartum nutrition is essential, and it's needed for parents who plan on breastfeeding. I also like that ritual keeps things simple and intentional instead of stuffing their vitamins with a million unnecessary extras. It is clean, easy, and doable, which is what you need when you're in those stages in your life. I love that it shows up at your door every month, and that honestly removes the mental load of trying to remember to order your vitamins. When it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency. Mom founded. Ritual puts in the work and shows you the proof. Save 25% off your first month@ritual.com not skinny. That's ritual.com not skinny for 25% off your first month. And we're back. You describe in the book dealing with, like, eating disorders and. And a lot of stuff going on while you're filming.
- [28:06]
A
Yeah.
- [28:07]
B
How. How did you navigate all of that? How did you come out the other side?
- [28:12]
A
Not well. You know, I think unfortunately for many of the things that I talk about and I struggled with in the book, I went through them all alone in my own head and in my own way. And I just. I didn't know how to ask for help. I didn't know how to open myself up. You know, I think the eating disorder would have happened regardless of the show. I think it was just the time and My fragile way of thinking that led me into that space. But then, you know, I made really poor decisions. I had fallen and hurt my nose and went to a plastic surgeon knowing that I was coming up to film the show. And then he tells me he can tweak it just a little bit. And then next thing I know, I'm. I have a nose job.
- [28:53]
B
And so the nose job happened just after the pilot.
- [28:57]
A
Correct.
- [28:57]
B
So meaning one episode is out with you looking one way, and then you guys come back for the full season
- [29:04]
A
and I'm 40 pounds lighter with a different face.
- [29:06]
B
Pretty much 40 pounds. Jamie, for reals. Did I know you talk about David Chase? Is he the creat. The creator of it?
- [29:14]
A
Yes.
- [29:14]
B
And did they mention anything?
- [29:16]
A
They will. I was under 18, so my mom was still coming to set with me. So they brought my. After the first. After the read through, they brought my mom into her room, and I was sort of left there waiting. And I just. I knew what was happening. I knew that they were confronting her about my size and my face, and I was convinced I was going to get fired. And they toyed with that idea, and rightfully so. You know, I totally understand why they would have, you know, entertained that. I don't know why the decision was made to keep me and continue. I'm obviously grateful that they did, but that sort of unfortunately set the tone for me for the rest of the shooting of that show that I just felt so less than. I felt like such a burden. I felt like such a problem. I felt just so undeserving and so not good enough to be on that show. Yes.
- [30:10]
B
Book all the time. And it's like I wanted to shake you. Like, you're like, can I just not be the problem for once? Like, I'm like, you're not the problem.
- [30:17]
A
I know, but I felt that way.
- [30:19]
B
And. And because you weren't expressing it, nobody knew that you were feeling that way, so nobody could console you. Was. Did you share this with, like, your. Your parents or your brothers?
- [30:30]
A
No, not even. I just. I thought that I needed to be professional. I thought that I needed to be a grownup. I thought that I needed to have my stuff together, so I presented it that way. And underneath, I was just a mess. And then. So by the time I met my first husband, he was. He felt like he was. He came into my life to save me.
- [30:53]
B
Cause you were so young, too. You. You married AJ Descala, 2022. So you met at 19, before we get into him, because that's a whole thing I Did want to also point out that I, I, I loved and appreciated how in the book you talk about acting. You know, I think in a way that other actors don't really, like, shed the light on, which is, like, very much like, it's a profession, it's a skill kind of vibe. And, like, there were moments where you felt like you weren't doing your best, or moments where they had you have an acting coach, or moments where you felt like you were better or worse. And I feel like that's so interesting, like, for the reader, but also probably so true for everyone in the field. But we don't think about it or hear about it from, from anybody else.
- [31:39]
A
Well, you want it. You don't want to. I knew that I didn't want to ever say that because I didn't want to seem, like, not capable. Like, you want to kind of be like, yeah, I know what I'm doing and confident and ready. But it felt so liberating to share all of these things and just be like, I was not that great that day, or I was called out for not being great that day.
- [32:00]
B
And that must be something such a, like, what is that could bring me into that kind of moment where, like, you're already on the set. Probably you're used to it, but, like, for an outsider, overwhelming. You know, cast, crew, everyone, you have to perform, they're unhappy with it. It's like, do it again, but better. Like, you know, I mean, I, I
- [32:23]
A
wish that girl could have been like, I'm sorry, can someone please help me? Like, I'm going through a lot right now. Like, I, I didn't know I was, I just took it, I just took it as just another dagger, another proof of just how not good enough I was. And I, you know, I remember when I was working with an acting coach and it was Jim Gandolfini's coach who he gifted to me. I remember him literally grabbing me by the shoulders one day and being like, everybody has a coach. Like, I have a coach. I will not work without a coach. Like, Tom Hanks has a coach. Like, it is part of being an actor. Like, we need support. We need people to help us shape and do things. You cannot do this. And the thing that he would always repeat to me all the time, no matter what I was going through, would be like, you're just a kid. You're a fucking kid. And I, I, I couldn't hear him in the moment.
- [33:13]
B
Yeah.
- [33:14]
A
But I, I can look back now and be like, oh, my God, I was just a Kid.
- [33:18]
B
And also, like, this was your learning experience. It was your first child.
- [33:23]
A
You didn't have to know it all.
- [33:24]
B
Like, you didn't have to know it all or be, you know, Meryl Streep as you first walked onto this set.
- [33:31]
A
That's right. I was. I was allowed to be curious and allowed to ask questions. And by the way, that's how I feel now. It's so nice. Like, the way I work now is still like, oh, like, somebody help me out. This isn't working. Like, to feel that or ask questions. Yes, ask questions or get help. I mean, it's just. We're not meant to go through anything in life alone. And I just. I learned that the really hard way.
- [33:55]
B
Well, in the book, you even talk at one point about thinking about quitting acting multiple times, which I'm glad that you didn't. And Gary, your. Your guy.
- [34:03]
A
Yeah.
- [34:04]
B
Over here. Told you something that really stuck with you.
- [34:07]
A
Yeah. That, you know, that. Well, first of all, I thought when I called Gary and my manager John, at the time, I thought that I was doing them a favor of just being like, hey, guys, I'm. I'm done. Like, thank you for supporting me. And I thought that they would be like, okay, Jamie, like, we get it. It's been so fun. We love you. But to my shock, both of them were like, absolutely not. You're. You are pulling yourself out of this for reasons in your own head. And the best advice was given me was the only difference with people that have longevity in this career and that don't is if they can wait long enough at the station for the train to come back.
- [34:42]
B
I love that. And I feel like it's not only in acting careers, by the way. Anything for anything.
- [34:47]
A
That's right.
- [34:47]
B
Yeah.
- [34:48]
A
It's like, just. It shows faith in yourself and trust in the universe, and just like the. You always can look back and see the perfect timing of things. Right. But when you're in the moment and it feels like it's not happening, you feel like it never will, you know,
- [35:04]
B
thinking about you being a kid on Sopranos, there were so many moments in the book, too, where, you know, they were so relatable and something I feel like I would do. When you were taking the subway to set because no one told you that
- [35:17]
A
I could get a ride. No one told me. But.
- [35:19]
B
But that's. But that's. They could have told you. You know what I mean?
- [35:23]
A
Maybe, you know, there was a story that didn't get into the book where when they called to book my second Season fitting. They were like, okay, we can see Jamie on, like, blank blank this Friday. And it was the day after my senior prom, and again, I was still so green. I didn't. And a people pleaser. I didn't think to ask for another day. So I made these plans where I was like, okay, when on Long island, when you went to your prom, then you would take a limo to the city and go to a club, and then you would take it to the Hamptons and stay at some, like, shitty hotel for two days with your friends before graduation. So I was like, okay, I'll go from the Hamptons to my fitting and then go back to the Hamptons. Well, I decided to take ecstasy for the first time at my senior prom. And so not only was I completely cracked out of my head, I. But I fell asleep on the Hampton Jitney and woke up in Jersey with no cell phone. I was supposed to be in Long Island City for my fitting. Like, showed up, like, literally cracked out of my mind for my second season fitting, not knowing that I could have just asked for another day fitting, but another day.
- [36:28]
B
Was there no one there?
- [36:30]
A
We didn't know. I didn't. I, like, had, like, my manager lived in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
- [36:34]
B
Yeah.
- [36:35]
A
It was a small.
- [36:35]
B
It was, like, a small manager at the time.
- [36:37]
A
That's right. Yes. And my parents.
- [36:40]
B
You didn't think you could ask for another day? You didn't think you could ask for a car? You're, like, part of this. You're a Soprano.
- [36:46]
A
I know.
- [36:46]
B
You're not, like, a background character. You're on season two. I'm cracking up still.
- [36:51]
A
No, that's. It's so me. It's so. I feel like I'm still like that.
- [36:54]
B
I feel like when it asks, someone can pay for this.
- [36:57]
A
That's right.
- [36:57]
B
I know. It's a. It's. It's hard to ask for things.
- [37:02]
A
Very, very, very. And I. I. I still like to be. I still like to present. And I feel like I am, like, somebody that. I'm a team player. I don't need the team player thing.
- [37:14]
B
Yeah.
- [37:14]
A
You know, like, and I. I feel that way because I. I just. I never. I don't feel better than anyone. I never want to put that on. Like, I just. I want everyone to feel comfortable and. And amazing.
- [37:27]
B
But sometimes you were, like, bending over backwards and. And. And doing.
- [37:30]
A
To my own detriment.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah.
- [37:32]
A
Yes.
- [37:32]
B
Because you tried to go to college.
- [37:34]
A
I did.
- [37:35]
B
And do the Sopranos at the same time.
- [37:36]
A
Yeah. And I want. Because I had done everything else with all normal.
- [37:42]
B
And that didn't work out?
- [37:43]
A
No. I mean, I was going to nyu, which I thought would work out, but I was. I didn't want to go into the theater program because I had no formal training before that, and I thought it would might, like, mess with my head. I don't. I don't know. It's really what I should have done.
- [37:59]
B
So what did you go for again?
- [38:00]
A
Psychology. So I went to School of Arts and Sciences, and I moved into the dorm. Really wanted the whole experience, but unfortunately, you know, Sopranos wasn't gonna work around my college class schedule. It also wasn't like, what it. Like, it was still a year or two away from being a big show. Only the first season had aired, so maybe one of my professors knew about it, like. Cause I would kind of be like, I'm on this TV show, so like, sometimes I might miss class. And by the time I was finishing my first semester, I was failing two classes because I had missed too many times. So, yeah, unfortunately, it didn't pan out.
- [38:37]
B
But you really thought you would be able to keep this kind of, like, normie life going?
- [38:42]
A
Yeah, for a while.
- [38:43]
B
I really did.
- [38:44]
A
I tried. I really tried.
- [38:45]
B
You definitely tried. So, I mean, I guess you can't. It's like, you can have no regrets there because you're like, I tried.
- [38:51]
A
And. Yes. And I've. I've gone through so much of my life with Con, feeling such regret and feeling such shame, and I honestly feel like in writing this book, I was actually able to just let a lot of that go.
- [39:06]
B
How many seasons do the Sopranos have? It was 10 years of your life.
- [39:10]
A
It was 10 years, but it's like the final season is season 6A and then 6B. So it's kind of seven seasons.
- [39:17]
B
So you went through so many phases during the show.
- [39:21]
A
Yes.
- [39:22]
B
One of them. You found out you were diagnosed with Ms. During. During Sopranos.
- [39:27]
A
Yes, between season three and four.
- [39:29]
B
And again, something that you didn't share with anybody, hid, like, the biggest secret on earth.
- [39:35]
A
Oh, the biggest secret. I mean, I. I remember right after getting diagnosed, I was with my ex husband at the time, and my parents, and we came home from the hospital, and there wasn't even a discussion around, like, how are you feeling? How are you doing? Like, we should research Ms. Like, it was like, hey, we tell no one about this. And I understand everybody's intention at the time, but it. That's what felt like the most important thing to address.
- [40:00]
B
Because if people found out, that was what was, like, the question popping up in my head throughout the book. What was the worst case scenario if people found out? Like, what were you envisioning then?
- [40:13]
A
Being fired, never being hired, having people just think of Ms. Every time they saw me. And I also didn't know what Ms. Was going to mean for me. I didn't know how it was going to manifest for me. And I also think I wanted to kind of forget about it. I wasn't really symptomatic.
- [40:32]
B
How did you find out about it? Exactly?
- [40:35]
A
So I'd had this bout with Lyme's disease or. Or we thought or think.
- [40:39]
B
So was it not?
- [40:40]
A
I don't know. There's so many theories about, could Lymes lead to Ms. Or could it have mimicked Lyme? We're not. We'll never really know. I've sort of let that go because it is what it is, but I had felt this, like, numbness, heaviness, tingling in my feet, and I also had lost my bladder, like, incontinence a couple of times. And I'm like. I thought it was like a uti, Like, I didn't know what was going on. And then, so a year and a half later, it started to come back, like, that heaviness tingling feeling again. And I just went to the hospital. I was like, I need to go to the er. I'll get these antibiotics again or steroids for Lyme, and I'll be fine. And for whatever reason, they wanted to do another spinal tap and do another mri, and I was not prepared or expecting for, you know, the neurologist to walk in and tell me that I
- [41:28]
B
had Ms. And it's an easy thing to diagnose because they see those lesions
- [41:32]
A
that you were describing, but those sometimes don't show up for a couple of years. So I know that there's sometimes people that can go a really long time without being diagnosed. In hindsight, I was actually really lucky
- [41:43]
B
how quickly I got diagnosed, because treating it earlier is. Is helpful.
- [41:48]
A
It's helpful. If I was a good patient, it probably would have been. I mean, I think sometimes I wonder physically how I would be had I taken care of myself better during that time.
- [41:59]
B
You mean the medication part or the, like, lifestyle?
- [42:02]
A
All of it. All of it, I think.
- [42:04]
B
But you were 20. 20.
- [42:05]
A
20.
- [42:06]
B
But, Jamie, do people usually get diagnosed this early?
- [42:09]
A
They can.
- [42:10]
B
They can.
- [42:10]
A
Actually. Between 20 and 30 for women is the most common time to get diagnosed. Yeah.
- [42:15]
B
I feel like there isn't that much awareness about that, that it can happen at those ages.
- [42:19]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I find most of the women that I've talked to that are like my age all kind of got diagnosed around that time. But yes, there's other people that can get diagnosed later.
- [42:29]
B
So do people that don't. That they don't see those lesions, does it kind of not get confirmed until they do?
- [42:37]
A
Like, sometimes people will be like, oh, looking back, I've been symptomatic for a decade, and I just didn't know what it was or was writing it off as different things. Also, Ms. Presents itself differently for everybody. You know, there's some common denominators and common symptoms, but it's really. It's really an individual experience.
- [42:56]
B
So does it matters where you have the lesions, kind of how it affects you?
- [43:01]
A
Yeah. So where certain things are. Affect my right side, my right leg, my spasticity, my muscle tone, bladder stuff, that's where I like my damage quote
- [43:13]
B
is, so you don't deal with this. When you find out about it, you're kind of like, I have this thing. Like, you shove it under the rug.
- [43:21]
A
That's right.
- [43:22]
B
Try to do what you're told. Don't fully do what you're told.
- [43:25]
A
No, I. What I. The medication was really painful and made me really sick every time I took it every week. So if we were traveling, I just wouldn't pack it.
- [43:34]
B
Yeah.
- [43:35]
A
You know, I wasn't in any type of physical therapy. I was, you know, living a very unhealthy lifestyle and also a lot of stress. I was in a really very toxic relationship at the time. And, you know, also the show was the biggest thing in the world at this time. Time. The same time, too. And so trying to sort of manage all that while seemingly being the perfect, you know, little castmate was really took its toll on me physically as well.
- [44:06]
B
Right. Because you're kind of bearing all this down, not talking about it, not dealing with it. And it's like, we know now you're not going to deal with it. You're going to deal with it later.
- [44:15]
A
That's right.
- [44:15]
B
Kind of thing.
- [44:16]
A
That's right.
- [44:17]
B
We'll be right back after the break. It's so exciting when I partner with one of my friends favorite favorite brands on earth that are now part of the Pod family. Spindrift. I feel like I'm an og. I feel like I discovered you. Okay. Like, I was drinking spinnies. We call them spinny in my family. Like, you want a spinny? Like, that was our go to for years. Like, props to you guys. Discovering it now and discovering the only sparkling water in America made with real squeezed fruit. Good for you. But I've been knowing about that because I'm always searching for options. First of all, to not drink plain water but with the best ingredients out there. And every spindrift is made not only from farm to can but with amazing best tasting ingredients. And every sip is just flavorful, lightly carbonated and delicious. And you can taste the difference, okay? Because with spindrift it's real squeezed fruit, okay? Not natural flavors. Real squeezed fruit. They are certified non ultra processed okay? By the non UPF verified standard. And listen, real fruit just tastes better and is better. They have amazing new flavors like cherry, blood orange, tangerine, raspberry, lime island punch. I love the OG Lemon Lime Grapefruit. Okay? And my listeners can get 15% off their next order of Spindrift. Visit drinkspindrift.com and use code Not Skinny at checkout for 15% off your site wide purchase. One use per customer. Valid through December 31, 2026. Not valid on subscription orders. That's drink Spindrift. D R I N K S P I N D r I f t.com use code NOT skinny for 15% off your next order. Fast fashion is so passe everyone. Now I feel like all the cool people are buying secondhand pre loved items and shopping on the RealReal. Okay, you want to be a smarter, more sustainable shopping sister. That's where you go. The RealReal is the spot to get designer pieces that you've been eyeing without paying full price. It's such a good place to really like scour the website and find like amazing finds. It's literally serotonin. I love finding pieces that feel special, timeless and unique that not everybody has. And the RealReal has everything from everyday staples to major investment bags from your favorite designers like Chanel the Row. Their inventory is constantly changing. It really makes it feel like treasure hunting in the best way. So whether you're looking for a designer bag moment, a vacation wardrobe refresh, or just love the thrill of finding an amazing, amazing deal on luxury pieces, you gotta go to the RealReal. The RealReal is the most trusted name and authenticated luxury resale with over 10,000 new arrivals daily. No one does resale like they're real real. It's the smarter way to shop luxury. And now get 25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com not skinny. That's therealreal.com not skinny to get 25 off to start shopping now@therealreal.com not skinny as you Guys know I've told you and I'm telling you again that I am redecorating my home and a lot of this stuff is being made custom made for me. But accessories. My one stop shop was Wayfair. First of all, I've always bought my furniture at Wayfair. Like if I know, especially if I know what I want, if it's like I'm looking for a round pedestal table, like type it into Wayfair. You'll find a hundred and you'll just need to find the one that you want in your price range, in your color. And I love looking through the reviews and seeing real customer photos. Like, I just feel like Wayfair has really beat the system of making a furniture website so shoppable, so easy to navigate. And I've never been disappointed. Customer service is amazing too. 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There are so many good shows on TV right now and one of my favorites is Running Point season two. What a great show. I was obsessed with season one. You know those shows that are like, we don't need a season two. It's like, no, we needed a season two. And the season two is just as good. Okay? It is so freaking good. If you didn't hear about Running Point, if you're living under a rock, it's from executive producer Mindy Kaling. Kate Hudson is starring and an all star cast. Okay? It's on Netflix. It dropped on April 23rd. New season, hilarious basketball comedy. Okay. It's called Running Point. And season two promises more hijinks, hilarity and higher stakes as Isla Gordon Kate Hudson is determined to prove her leadership of the Los Angeles Waves is permanent rather than a surprise temporary fix following last year's team scandal. However, she remains unaware that her brother Cam, played by Justin Thoreau, is secretly maneuvering behind the scenes to reclaim his former job as head of the sports empire. To survive family power plays and intense sports scrutiny, Isla must rip up her old playbook and create a new game plan to stay on top. This roster grows this season with stark studded guest appearances from Ray Romano, Max Greenfield, and cameos from Octavia Spencer, Nicole Richie, Scott Speedman, and even Lisa Rinna. I'm obsessed with the show. Kate Hudson is comedy gold, obviously. Mindy Kaling, executive producing, all star cast I mean, I don't need to convince you, just like, literally pop it on. Watch Running Points Season two, now only on Netflix. And we're back. Thinking about how young you were is such a huge factor because how much dumb do we do in our, you know, teens and twenties to handle this kind of news and, like, be good about it and be diligent? Like, that's almost not feasible.
- [51:17]
A
Yeah. And I've had a lot of moments, to be honest, of feeling like things were really unfair. Like, I've had, I've had, like so much, so many moments of being resentful, of being like, this is so unfair. Like, I'm not able to just be young.
- [51:34]
B
Right.
- [51:34]
A
Be a kid and having to constantly think about my body or constantly being out with my friends and like, them having no idea the pain or struggle that I'm feeling because I just want to be normal like everybody else. It's been, it's been a heavy burden to carry for a long time. And one of the more beautiful things about it, though, is that my circumstances physically haven't changed. But I, I'm a. I'm so much happier and freer now than I was then just because my perspective has changed, you know?
- [52:08]
B
Yeah. Even, you know, reading the book and, you know, you talk a lot about the shame that you had with this and how much you hit it. I mean, there are moments where I was, like, holding my breath because you were literally on sets hiding directors asking you what's up? You're still, you're lying.
- [52:27]
A
So much lying. So much, so much lying.
- [52:30]
B
So much lying.
- [52:31]
A
It was so. Came so easy to me. I could not imagine a world where I could ever be honest about anything, especially with myself. It was just, it, it was so heartbreaking and so difficult. But it's like, it almost like the tension was building, like as years went on. And with each job, it was like I, I couldn't hide it anymore. Like, the amount of times I was constantly being called out, and instead of me looking at it as opportunities to just ask for help.
- [52:59]
B
Yeah.
- [53:00]
A
And, like, it could have been, like, this olive branch from the universe. It always felt like a threat.
- [53:05]
B
It felt like, no, now I have to cover it up even more.
- [53:08]
A
You had, like, deeper.
- [53:09]
B
You had twice, I think, right. Where doctors were called on set to check you out.
- [53:15]
A
Yeah.
- [53:15]
B
I'm, like, thinking of you in those moments where you know what's going on. They don't. A doctor is coming, a professional who, who, you know, could, could call me out. Right.
- [53:26]
A
100. It's what I expected to happen.
- [53:28]
B
So in those moments, what do you remember? Like, what you were feeling?
- [53:31]
A
Like getting attacked by a bear. Do you know what I mean? Like, true. Fight or flight.
- [53:36]
B
Yeah.
- [53:37]
A
Trauma. Like, my life is about to be over. And I, I also, A lot of, like, the guilt and shame that I carried was because of the lies that I was telling. I felt so bad about it. I hated being dishonest. I, I, I just felt like. I don't know, I couldn't imagine how in my head, how angry people would be at me. I remember when I told my manager, John, for the first time, and I braced myself. I, I. And I would have accepted it and expected him to be disappointed that I hadn't told him. And I remember him being, like, more just heartbroken, like, oh, wait, I just. I hate that you were going through this without me. And I never, ever expected anyone to react that way.
- [54:20]
B
Do you think if the people that were closest to you at the time, like your parents, aj, you were married to, if they would have said, jamie, tell them.
- [54:31]
A
Yes.
- [54:31]
B
You think if somebody that you trusted would have said that to you think you would have acted differently?
- [54:36]
A
Yes. Because at that point, I think I had felt like I'd made so many bad decisions and I didn't trust myself. Right. It was like the eating disorder, the nose job, the album. Like, I thought.
- [54:49]
B
Yeah. What you talk about that? I need to go listen now. No, I need to, please.
- [54:53]
A
Actually, somebody came up to me yesterday, and they're like, I can't find it on Spotify. I was like, good, good. But I just. I don't know. I just felt like I, I was com. I was, I was the least trustworthy person. Like, I was not the person to. To trust my decisions. And so AJ was the person that I, I trusted the most. He. He knew it was best. He was there to guide me and save me and tell me what to do. I just wanted to be told what to do.
- [55:20]
B
And everyone was down with the lie.
- [55:23]
A
Yeah, everyone was. That was the only way. I mean, even up until the moment where I became public about it 10 years ago, my mom was terrified for me to say it out loud.
- [55:34]
B
Do you have any, like, resentment towards her about it? No.
- [55:37]
A
I understand. Yeah, I understand where she just wanted to protect me. She was just so scared for me, and she was just. You know, I understand why. It was all good intention, you know, I. It comes from her own shit, you know?
- [55:52]
B
Yeah. It's hard. I mean, it's easy to blame our parents for everything, you know? Like, why did you tell me to do that? Why didn't you tell me to do this? But you were already trusting. You were saying your. Your husband. Because you were 20.
- [56:04]
A
Yeah.
- [56:05]
B
And he was 10 years older and 10 years older. And he's in on this, telling you to hide it. But he was also there for you. Right?
- [56:12]
A
Like, he was.
- [56:13]
B
That's the kind of relationship you were describing, which is always an interesting one of, like, you can tell this isn't good, but I could also tell, you know, that you felt taken care of in a way.
- [56:25]
A
And he was also my manager.
- [56:27]
B
Right.
- [56:28]
A
So this was a man that was just guiding every aspect of my life. He wanted the best for me more than he was. Told me, like, no one knows you better than me. No one wants more for you than me. Like, I'm gonna make sure that all your dreams come true. And this, like, handsome older man, like, literally just came in and saved the day. He got me out of the hole with the album. He got me out of just so many things, and now he was there to protect me. And, yes, they were as toxic as this relationship and dark as some of our moments were, he also was the guy there for me when I peed my pants in his. In a speaking engagement. And. And I couldn't stand in the Emmy's carpet anymore in my high heels, and he ran over Famka Johnson to, like, pick me up, you know? Like, he really. He really was there for me. And I. I wanted to, especially writing about that time in my life, be really conscious of not making him, like, one dimensional, you know what I mean? Like, he wasn't all bad. And I can see. I can understand when you're reading it, and you could be like, this guy's an. Or, like, oh, my God, a narcissist. Or, like, look at what he's saying to her. But in the moment, it felt like love, and it felt genuine, and it. And I. I think it felt that way for him, too.
- [57:45]
B
Did you reach out to him about including him in the book? He's in jail, so. I mean, they can write letters.
- [57:54]
A
Correct. But I kind of put this, like.
- [57:57]
B
Which may be coming a year away, maybe.
- [58:00]
A
I kind of put this flare out to the universe a couple of weeks ago, where I was like, I wish I could just speak to someone in his life about this book that's about to come out. And his brother randomly texted me because someone he knew is in Austin, where I live.
- [58:16]
B
Is that normal for you to talk to his brother?
- [58:18]
A
No. I cannot remember the last time that him and I have spoken, and we ended up having a long facetime, and I told him, I wrote a book. It's coming out. I speak of my time with AJ And I just want to tell you that I accept whatever reactions you guys may have. I meant no harm. This was not my intention to hurt anyone, and I apologize if I caused any pain to anyone, truly. And that's. I just wanted an opportunity to say that and for him to know, like, where my heart was. And this is really just about my story and my journey, and he was a big part of it, you know, for a long time, and I'm just really grateful that I got that chance. And again, I don't know how it will be received by him. That's.
- [59:03]
B
What. Did the brother want to hang out in Austin?
- [59:05]
A
No, actually, his son had just moved to Austin, and he was mentioning that he was coming, and maybe we could sort of reconnect. So. Yeah. But it was. It was what I needed and what I wanted.
- [59:15]
B
How did he receive the news about the book?
- [59:18]
A
He said, this is your story, and I'm proud of you, and I think it's wonderful that you're sharing.
- [59:23]
B
I mean, I did. I do think that you gave him. You know, you. You mentioned the facts. The facts are that, you know, that was a relationship. You did mention a lot of him being there for you and helping you. You mentioned that he stole money, that you.
- [59:38]
A
There was money missing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I have to be careful.
- [59:43]
B
Yeah.
- [59:43]
A
How we say totally, but, you know, but I also get to talk about, like, this wonderful, weird, kismet moment 15 years later. Right. Because when we were getting divorced, I just. I didn't want to go to court. I didn't want to. I just needed it to be done. I just needed us to move on from each other.
- [60:02]
B
Are you proud of yourself for doing
- [60:04]
A
that, you know, my dad still tells me to this day that that's the most proud he's ever been.
- [60:08]
B
I mean, because whenever people split up, I'm like, I could imagine how hard it is, and especially, like, as you describe yourself, like, hard for you to make the decisions, like. But you made that decision.
- [60:20]
A
I did.
- [60:21]
B
That was a big decision to make at 24.
- [60:23]
A
It was a big decision, right? Yeah.
- [60:25]
B
But you did it.
- [60:26]
A
I did. I did. And years, years, years later, I remember his, like, he just, like, came to me. I was away on this job, and I'm like, oh, what are you doing here? But I was like, okay. Well, I'm just.
- [60:38]
B
Are you a witch?
- [60:40]
A
People are coming. And I just sort of sat in, like, in a meditation, and I was kind of. All that came to me was just forgiveness.
- [60:49]
B
Yeah.
- [60:50]
A
And I just wanted to send that to him just, like, clear, whatever ener, like, energetic channel we have between us. Like, we're good. Like, I know you loved me in your way, and I appreciate that. I'm sorry for my part in any hurt. And then, miraculously, a couple of days later, I get this call to do this Chevy super bowl commercial, like, where we get to sort of be our Sopranos characters again. And the exact amount of money I was paid was the amount of money that was lost indoors.
- [61:19]
B
I mean, that's wild and kismet. But also, I so related to that part of you that let that money go. And again, something. You should be proud of yourself, I think, because it's like, you knew in that moment to choose your mental health, your peace over a battle.
- [61:41]
A
That's right. And I think that that's definitely one of the lessons that I've learned throughout my life and will continue to do. It's just. I really feel like life just has a beautiful way of working itself out, and when we can kind of loosen our grip on those things and really put, like you said, our peace and our mental health first. Things align for us the way they're meant to.
- [62:02]
B
Because I feel like in the book, we kind of see your journey of, like, girl to woman. It's like, can't make decision, whatever it is. But then quickly, or fairly quickly, you learn how to do those things, like, on your own.
- [62:17]
A
And it's a lot of trial and tribulation. A lot of, you know.
- [62:20]
B
You know, growing up is all about.
- [62:22]
A
That's all it is. That's right. Exactly. And I'm still figuring it out.
- [62:25]
B
Right.
- [62:25]
A
I'm about to be 45 years old, and I still feel like a Kid. And I still feel like that's amazing, by the way.
- [62:32]
B
No, that skin is stunning. Hair is stunning.
- [62:35]
A
Thank you.
- [62:36]
B
Everything.
- [62:36]
A
I appreciate you. Thank you. But, yeah, I mean, I just feel. I feel. I keep saying this. Like, I feel in a weird way like I'm just starting. Like, I feel like. I don't know, I'm like living my life in a way that I never thought I'd be able to.
- [62:51]
B
I think that's so great. Like, when you were describing that, you're like, it, I will walk with a cane, you know, or like whatever it is that makes you feel good. And I feel like that so is something that comes with time and figuring yourself out. Experience and experience and. And confidence and all those things that come with. With life experience. And hearing you go through, like, you're hiding this thing like a crazy person.
- [63:18]
A
Literally, Literally.
- [63:20]
B
To getting to the point of saying it, yeah, here is my cane. And all. Like, I'm. It's easier for me to walk this way, so why would I make my life that much harder for something that isn't affecting you, it's affecting you.
- [63:35]
A
That's right. I don't have to apologize for it. And that was a big lesson for me. And, like, I'm gonna take the help I need. It has nothing to do with you. I just always. I always felt like I would be disappointing people because of it. I just did this job recently and like, I auditioned for it and booked it, which always just feels better, right? Like that you earn this job. And I was zooming with the director before I went to work, and I was like, hey, I don't know if you know this about me because it was a self tape, right? I'm like, I have Ms. Like, do you know that? And he's like, I did know that. And I was like, do you. Let me tell you how it affects me. I was like, I walk with a limp and this, this, this. And he was like, you're good. And I was like, so I. I for jobs for many years. And I appreciate this because I was always met with the support. I would be like, we'll work around it. Like, I can walk a couple of steps and it won't look like I have anything. And it was always met with grace of being like, sure. But now I literally was like, I'm. That's just how I walk, though. Are we good with that? Because I'm not looking to work around this. I. I can't perform a body because then I'm not going to be the best actress I Want to be. And he was like, you're good. And I did all these episodes as me, and we never even talked about ms, and it just felt so beautiful and wonderful, and I had so much fun again, which I. I can't even remember the last time I had.
- [64:53]
B
Because you didn't have, like, a block, because that felt like it was blocking you for a while. Because instead of focusing on this job or the script or whatever, in your mind, it's, how am I hiding this?
- [65:02]
A
That's right. Even auditions, I would, like, stress, like. Like, what I could see, like, coming up to my name that I'm, like, two people away to be called into the room. I would get up, and I would start walking around the room to loosen up. So I didn't walk in stiff, so they wouldn't speculate anything. Like, even with Steph, I remember I was testing for this pilot, and I was in a room in front of all the executives, and when I, you know, walked out and I get the call later, like, you got the job? And I was so excited. And then Steph called me after, and she's like, hey. So a few people asked me why you were limping when you walked out.
- [65:35]
B
I was like, oh, fuck.
- [65:37]
A
Like, those were just, like, little moments that happened that, you know, were terrifying to me. But again, it was just things that I had to kind of bury and push through until I was finally, you know, ready to share.
- [65:50]
B
Is that the only way that it affects you? The. The.
- [65:53]
A
It's the main way, I think the most visible way. Like, I. I'm always slightly uncomfortable, but it's. I mean, I've had this 25 years. It's, like, kind of my normal. So I wouldn't say, like, I live in pain, but maybe if you felt what I feel in my body, you'd feel that way. But it's just. I have to accept it.
- [66:13]
B
Like, how many women have reached out to you since you've shared this news and started your podcast with Christina Applegate?
- [66:20]
A
Yes. So many.
- [66:21]
B
Yeah.
- [66:22]
A
You know, I did a signing the other day, and this woman came up to the table. She had a cane, and she just started crying, and she's like, I. I'm your age. I have two little boys, and I just. Like, I saw you just walk in, and I was like, she walks like me, and she thinks like me, and. And she said, thank you. And then I just started crying because I was like, I need that, too. Like, thank you. Like, I need to see another woman that. That is my age, that lives a life similar to me that does walk like me. Like it. It is important for me as well. And so that podcast, while I think we're able to give a voice to an experience that a lot of people have, I think it's also just very universal that we all go through shit.
- [67:05]
B
Yeah.
- [67:05]
A
We all have hard things that we're up against every single day. While the details look different, the ways that we're affected, the emotions we feel are universal. And so to share so vulnerably, and authentically, I've just had so many beautiful exchanges with people that make me feel less alone.
- [67:24]
B
Well, isn't that how you and Christina met? Because somebody recommended she speak to you? Yes.
- [67:29]
A
Lance Bass, our mutual bestie when she was diagnosed, and she was just not ready to necessarily share it, but also, like, how do I work with this? Because she was in the middle of filming dead to me. He was like, you gotta call Jamie. And so initially our conversations were like, okay, you know, this is what you should ask for. This is, you know, ask for your trailer closer. What? You know, do this before you work to loosen up your legs. Like, I was just trying to give her, like, tips and tricks of, like, how to work with ms, basically on a film set. And then next thing I know, she would just, like, call me late at night or early in the morning, and just when she's scared or she's feeling things. And next thing you know, it's like two hours later and we're talking about Bravo and our children and peeing our pants and all these things. And I give her all the credit. She said to me one day, she's like, we should do a podcast. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, of this how we're talking right now, like, I'm ready. Are you ready to just, like, not give a shit and just put it all out there? And I. I think she really primed me to be ready to write this book.
- [68:33]
B
And how. How are you there for each other, like, now? She was just dealing with. With a. Yeah, yeah.
- [68:38]
A
She, like, she knows I'm in her corner. She knows how much I love her. And we also give each other the space. Like, we get some times where we need to kind of disconnect and we get. We can pick up when you really need someone. I'm flying to LA tomorrow, and she's the first stop for me to go see when I get there, because is
- [68:56]
B
it like, is it annoying if people are asking all the time, like, how are you? How does that get?
- [69:01]
A
Like, I wouldn't Say annoying, but it's kind of was one of my fears. Right. Like, I just. Like, I don't want people to, like, worry about you. I don't. Yeah.
- [69:11]
B
I don't want to be.
- [69:11]
A
I don't want you to feel bad for me. Like, I want to feel like, normal.
- [69:15]
B
Yeah.
- [69:16]
A
And. And my friends have always treated me as such, and I appreciate that. But for her. Yeah. I think she loves to say that whenever we say how are you? To each other, she knows that I'll be ready to receive how she really is. And she doesn't have to censor herself or feel like she has to take care of my feelings in that moment. And I think that we can be that for each other.
- [69:36]
B
Yeah. Somebody just asked me yesterday. I got on a Zoom call, and they were like, how are you? And I'm like, good. I'm like, actually, I'm not good. I've. Dre. I just threw up. You know what I mean? Like, why am I saying good?
- [69:46]
A
It's a very low.
- [69:48]
B
You really want to know exactly? Don't ask if you don't want to know. There are two things, because we're almost out of time.
- [69:54]
A
Talk to you forever.
- [69:55]
B
But there are two things that I. First of all, I was telling my husband, like, if there's something he. We were eating dinner, and I'm, like, listening to your book, and he's like, are you listening to something? I'm like, I can't stop. It was about your son, Beau and Adam. I. I don't know if.
- [70:09]
A
Well, I'm sure as a mother.
- [70:10]
B
No, no, no. I. And then I went through your feed, and I saw the. The. The. The reel of him getting released from the hospital. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What it did to my body. Hearing about the experience, having him go through that, seeing him come out. Thank God he's okay. But writing about that experience with your son, getting. What do they call it?
- [70:33]
A
Adam. So it's like acute dissimulation. It's encephalitis, basically, which is a swelling of the brain, and it's. Basically, he got a random virus at camp, and instead of his body. I know. Lakes and camp. It's like, we can't do it.
- [70:49]
B
Oh, my. No, no. The t. I don't know. I don't know.
- [70:51]
A
I know. But instead of making antibodies to fight the virus, his body made dumb antibodies and attacked itself.
- [70:58]
B
And it took you so long to fit. Not you. The. Like, you had to fight to get
- [71:04]
A
to the bottom of urgent care.
- [71:05]
B
Like, how many. How Long until a week.
- [71:08]
A
A week.
- [71:09]
B
A week of him with feet, high fevers, the kids not eating.
- [71:13]
A
Yeah. And just also mother's intuition.
- [71:16]
B
Yeah.
- [71:16]
A
Like, finally I could listen to that voice inside and be like, I remember when we were leaving the ER the day before we finally got admitted. They're sending us home again. And my feet literally didn't want to move. I was like, I know in my soul that there is something seriously wrong that they are missing. But what finally got us admitted was when he lost the ability to urinate. And that's when they were able to really understand what was going on. And that was the most painful and traumatic time of my life. But also a moment where I felt, like, more love than I've ever felt and support and, like, I kind of learned who I am and what I've become in that moment.
- [72:02]
B
And, like, how strong you can be.
- [72:03]
A
Yeah. Like. Like the way I was able to ask for help, the way I was able to use my voice and advocate and, like, even when with the doctors. Right. Like, you're at their mercy, they're saving your child's life. But also my opinion mattered. Like, I had a say in his care. I had a say in what they were doing. And he is a miracle. I mean, I think in many ways, there were ch. There were times that we. We all thought we were going to lose him. And I was in the middle of writing this when it happened.
- [72:34]
B
Oh, really?
- [72:35]
A
Yeah.
- [72:35]
B
Because this was not. That was 2024.
- [72:37]
A
So this summer will be two years. I literally was. Thought I was, like. I was releasing messy. Like, sold my memoir. I was, like, just starting to write it, and then this comes, and that's just life. Like, you don't know what's around the corner. I don't. I don't know what's still ahead for me. But what I do know is that I don't have to go through it alone. Finally, you know?
- [72:58]
B
Yeah. Because you know how to ask for help. Well, thank God he's okay.
- [73:02]
A
Yes.
- [73:02]
B
And that you fought for him.
- [73:05]
A
Yeah.
- [73:06]
B
In. In every way.
- [73:07]
A
Thank God he's a fighter, too.
- [73:09]
B
Yeah.
- [73:09]
A
I mean, it hasn't been easy for him. His recovery has been really hard.
- [73:12]
B
How is he? You wrote. You wrote about him changing a little bit after that. Is that still. Do you really feel like a different kid after this experience?
- [73:20]
A
Yeah.
- [73:21]
B
Really?
- [73:22]
A
And that's been hard for me as a mom. It has. You know, and I. I'm. I'm trying to give myself as much grace as I can through that because, you know, it's like, you have this version of your kid for so long for 10 years. Like, I know who Beau is. I know him. And then anyone would be changed from the experience that he had. But, you know, it's also due to the brain swelling, and, you know, it's considered a traumatic brain injury, what he went through. And when he came out of it, he was in a severe state of psychosis for a while. And then he was almost like. Like, we, like, would joke. He was like, buddy the elf. Like, everything was beautiful and everything was great, and you're amazing and wild. That's so sweet. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's like. And it was a lot for him to, like, hold in his little body, and he got bullied so much at school for it, and it was really devastating. But he's also my hero because I put him in talk therapy immediately. I found this amazing woman, and she has really. I give her all the credit. She has helped. Helped us as a family, like, remind Beau of, like, who he is. And her main thing that she says that she realizes kids need the most is self compassion. Because when you can have self compassion, everything else, like, you can grow from there of, like, all of the things, all the other attributes that you hope somebody has, like, confidence, things like that. So all she really just teaches Beau is to just have grace for himself all the time.
- [74:50]
B
Yeah.
- [74:50]
A
And I think that's allowed himself to advocate for himself and find his footing in middle school, because he gets it. He can't.
- [74:56]
B
He knows exactly what happened. You saying that he texted you, but during being sick before figuring it out, Mom, I want to take all your pain away.
- [75:04]
A
Yeah. I mean, he's always been sweet, but that was signs to me also, like, looking back, that there was, like, something like.
- [75:12]
B
But does he fully understand your condition? Like, not. But he.
- [75:16]
A
He does.
- [75:16]
B
So even then. He did.
- [75:18]
A
Yes.
- [75:19]
B
Wow.
- [75:19]
A
Yes, he is. He is. He's my guy. Like, he's like, hashtag boy moms. Hashtag boy mom, hashtag two boys.
- [75:27]
B
I was like, everyone cool has two boys.
- [75:29]
A
Okay. It's true. It's a thing with boy mom. I. I'm not gonna lie. I definitely had, like, a little bit of, like, a sadness when I found out I was having another boy. And now I cannot obviously imagine it any other way.
- [75:40]
B
Yeah.
- [75:40]
A
They're so close. They're, like, best friends. It's the best. And they love their mom.
- [75:46]
B
Right.
- [75:46]
A
We are their queen.
- [75:47]
B
Right.
- [75:48]
A
Like, I think God knew what he was doing. A girl would have probably crushed me. Like, let's be honest. She would have brought me back to, like, she would have brought me steps back. I need to be like, pumped up. But Bo. Bo, I think the word. The place in my life where I was worried the most about Ms. Affecting me was motherhood. Like, I felt the most insecure that, like, I wasn't a good enough mom. Like, I couldn't be as physical with them. I couldn't do the things that I would wanted to do. Like, like, you know, I can't play in the mother son kickball game with him and like all these things that his friends do with their moms.
- [76:20]
B
Don't worry, I'm not playing in the kickball.
- [76:22]
A
A little better. That makes you feel a little better. But he.
- [76:26]
B
What do they need? They need your love.
- [76:28]
A
Exactly. And Bo tells me all the time, like, you're the best mom. Like, you're my inspiration. Yeah. But then I have my little. Like tells me. He's like. And you walk like an old lady. I'm like, you know, I love both of them. They both bring. They both bring the real, but they both make me feel like I'm the exact mom that they need.
- [76:46]
B
What shocked me so much is because I tell people, like, I had like gut issues before I got pregnant and then I got pregnant, they went away. So when people have gut issues, I'm like, get pregnant. But when you said your Ms. Symptoms were way later pregnant, I was so shocked. I'm like, is everything hormonal? Like, yes. You saying that you felt so much better and then the minute you got your period back, the symptoms came back, went to shit. How do they, like, how do. Like, how do you explain it? Like, what the helly?
- [77:16]
A
I don't know if I, if I could. If I didn't have to sleep train again. I swear to God, I. I loved being pregnant. I'm one of those people.
- [77:26]
B
You look gorgeous. I saw your photos. I was like, no, you literally looked like you had a fake belly. Like you were. You did.
- [77:31]
A
I loved it. I loved being pregnant. I mean, the Ms. Relief. But also it was a time where, like, my body was doing what I wanted it to do. It was doing something good for me.
- [77:40]
B
Doing. It was working hard.
- [77:42]
A
That's right.
- [77:43]
B
It was working so hard. Tripling the blood in your body, doing whatever the else it does, and your symptoms were quieted down. How did that.
- [77:51]
A
I think that, I mean, I know that in a lot of people within Ms. Research are trying to like, sort of figure that out, but it is, it's. It's the hormonal surge.
- [77:58]
B
Right?
- [77:59]
A
Just. Yeah.
- [78:00]
B
Damn.
- [78:01]
A
I know. I have a lot of faith in modern medicine. Like, I don't know if I'll ever not have this, but I. There's just a part of me that knows that it's. It's. There's. There are things on the horizon, I think, that will make people's lives a lot easier.
- [78:17]
B
Well, we can hope.
- [78:18]
A
Yes.
- [78:19]
B
And another thing that really moved me was you finding out that James Gandolfini donated to Ms. Without you. How did you find this out?
- [78:28]
A
I think. I can't even remember. It might have been either his ex wife or maybe a manager. That was like. Like, you know, Jim, he. He never needed credit. And that was one of the beautiful things about him.
- [78:37]
B
Right?
- [78:37]
A
Like, he could silently doing that, knowing, like, that's helping Jamie, and he didn't need the accolades or the attention of, like, look at me doing something nice. That's who Jim was.
- [78:47]
B
That must have been such a moving moment to find that out.
- [78:50]
A
Like, but not surprising. It was. Like, when I. When I heard that, I was like, of course.
- [78:54]
B
Did you find that out after he passed away?
- [78:56]
A
Yeah.
- [78:57]
B
Oh, wow.
- [78:57]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [78:58]
B
And you just did a reading with Teresa Caputo?
- [79:01]
A
I did.
- [79:01]
B
Did. Who'd you talk to?
- [79:03]
A
Well, she came on a podcast that I had with my friend Rob, who played my brother in Sopranos, and she actually talked to me most. Well, I did a reading with her years ago after my brother died.
- [79:13]
B
Right. I'm so sorry about that, too.
- [79:16]
A
But, you know, it was wild. I don't know if I talked about this in the book. When she. When we finished the reading, she pulled me aside, and she was like. I was told not to say this on camera, but I kept feeling like my legs couldn't move. And this is when I was still private about ms, and I wasn't physically showing, like, any kind of limp or anything. Like, nobody was picking up on anything. And I was like, huh. And she's like, your brother was giving me, like, there was, like, this. Something wrong with your legs. Something wrong with your legs. And I just kept being like, huh? And she's like, you're gonna be okay. All he wants you to know is, it's gonna be okay. I know. And she said, like, other wild shit. Like, she says this to my brother's, like, fiance at the time. That was like, no one could have known. And to my mother, she gave the beautiful gift of, like, you did the right thing. Because as a family, we had to decide to take him off life support, which is just, you know, you always wonder if it was the right or wrong thing to do. So she's a magical human. She gives people a lot of peace.
- [80:16]
B
Wait, that's crazy.
- [80:17]
A
And so she came on Rob and I's podcast. She talked about Bo because Bo speaks of a near death experience. He had no influence before, like, other than angels in the outfield, I think is the only thing that he ever, like, watched with angels. Like, I always felt like my. I want my kids to figure out their relationship with God on their own, and I'll support it. And so I never really talked to him much about that. And when he came out of his experience, he was like, oh, like, I crossed over the other side. I met God. I saw Mima, I saw Adam. He said that everybody's young there. And so when I did this reading with Teresa, she. She confirmed, like, I didn't tell her what happened, and she told me what he said happened. Wild.
- [81:00]
B
I can't deal with that. I know, but you can because you're very spiritual and you can, you can.
- [81:05]
A
Yes. But, like, when everything you want to believe is true is kind of in front of your face and your kid is saying it to you, it's confronting. I've definitely had to do some, like, deep breaths and, like, work on, like. Like, wait, it's. Is that real? Is it. You know, it's. It's. It's hard to know, but I'm gonna continue on. It makes me feel better going through life thinking that way, you know?
- [81:27]
B
Another thing that I can't let you go without talking about is your husband, Cutter.
- [81:31]
A
Yes.
- [81:32]
B
Because you met him when he was so young. You were both young, but he was 22. And you let him in on. On your secret or. At the time. Yeah, it was still. It was still. And there was a moment that I remember, I was. I was listening to this part of the book. I was almost, you know, it was my bedtime. Almost. I was like, I need to remember to talk to her about this, because the moment where he told you to just, like, wear a diaper, and I was like, this 22 year old. Like, guys at 20, guys at 22. Like, are you kidding me? Like, is single girls now are dating guys in their 30s that are, you know, I know. Pathetic losers that can't deal with. But he's 22 years old, a baseball. A hunky baseball player dealing with this kind of thing, telling you to put on depends.
- [82:24]
A
I know, I know. I mean, at the time I was like, this is so embarrassing. Like, I cannot believe that this is what happening? But that's. That's a perfect example of who Cutter is. And he's just. He's wired to take care of you. He's wise, he's mature, he's loving. Like, he literally was looking at me being like, why aren't you just wearing these to make your life easier? You're running off the stage in between every scene, like, worry that you peed your pants or if you peed your pants, like, what are you doing? Make your life easier. And he, he is so instrumental and such a huge part of my acceptance journey. And I, like, we were joking about it last night with some friends where, like, when I first met him, they were like, jamie, what are you doing? Like a 22 year old minor league baseball player.
- [83:13]
B
Like, you were just gonna have fun.
- [83:14]
A
I thought it was just gonna have fun. I was 30. And yeah, little did I know, here we are 14 years later. He's literally the greatest in the world. I can't. I can't imagine. And I don't want to know my life without him.
- [83:25]
B
And one last question is, you know, this book, like we said, we see your younger self and we see everything that you know now and how different that is. So what advice would you give young little Jamie?
- [83:38]
A
Oh, I just. I want her to feel really validated in her experience and seen. I want her to know that all of this pain and struggle is gonna shape her and teach her and make her grow and that I'm proud of her and that it gets better and she has a lot to look forward to.
- [84:01]
B
I love that. And I love so much that you manifested playing somebody with Ms. And you got the Grinch anatomy. Yeah, see, you're a witch.
- [84:11]
A
I am. I'm a little witchy.
- [84:13]
B
I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
- [84:15]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [84:16]
B
Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Knott's Kenny, but not follow me on Instagram at Not skinny, but not fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday.
- [84:46]
A
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