Jesse Metcalfe: The OG 2000s Heartthrob

Summary

Podcast Summary: Not Skinny But Not Fat Episode Title: Jesse Metcalfe: The OG 2000s Heartthrob
Host: Amanda Hirsch
Guest: Jesse Metcalfe
Date: March 17, 2026

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

Amanda Hirsch sits down with actor and early 2000s icon Jesse Metcalfe (of Desperate Housewives and John Tucker Must Die) for a candid, freewheeling conversation. The episode explores Jesse’s rapid rise to fame, personal struggles, regrets, and growth, as well as his new venture into skincare with his brand Neutral. Jesse is deeply reflective and unflinchingly honest about his triumphs, his mistakes, and his ongoing quest for fulfillment and authenticity—both in Hollywood and in life.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

The 2000s Heartthrob Era and Hollywood

• Amanda opens with nostalgia for the 2000s, setting the stage for Jesse (“John Tucker”) as the OG heartthrob and reflecting on how times and fame have changed.
  “If you could go back to the fucking 2000s, wouldn’t you be sliving like…John Tucker Must Die era?” [07:05]

• Jesse embraces his heartthrob status:
  “I never broke out of it. It’s challenging, for sure. Because of the roles that I took early in my career, I never necessarily got the opportunity to play the type of roles I really want to play... but it’s never over. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.” [14:38]

• On typecasting and the pressure of good looks:

  • Jesse was objectified since childhood for being “pretty,” leading to bullying and a “chip on my shoulder” when he first found success. [17:00–18:32]
  • “I was a very pretty boy… I got ridiculed and teased as a child, like, insanely... For not looking enough like a boy, for not looking masculine enough…It haunted me.” [17:41–18:31]

Hollywood, Regret & Redemption

• On the lack of control in Hollywood:
  Amanda: “So much of this industry is, like, not in your control… Starting a business, that’s in your control.”
  Jesse: “You’re so right about that. All we can really do is kind of look our best and work on our craft and give the best possible audition... Now that all auditions are on tape…it’s even more challenging.” [15:24–16:07]

• Missed career moments:

  • Skipping an Entourage audition: “I, like, chose to go to, like, a party in Malibu…Instead. It could have just been an idiotic decision by a young guy who thought he knew better.” [36:01–36:36]
  • Regrets: “I do feel like I’ve underachieved. I used to think it was all in my control; when you’re hitting, you think it’s gonna last forever.” [37:21–37:45]

• The impact of “moments” in Hollywood and the pressure for relevance:

  • “Now it’s like you do one show and you blow up so hard…But 20 years ago or now, it’s still not guaranteed that after your moment, you’re gonna be the hottest on GQ next year.” [38:05–39:14]

• Candid about past behavior:

  • “My reaction outweighed the offense. I’d like threatened people before. I’ve threatened directors before… I’m a little embarrassed by some of my [past] behavior.” [51:58–52:22]
  • Jesse is working on making amends: “I’ve looked forward to running into people, making amends, and apologizing. It’s really lightened the burden.” [52:08]

Vulnerability and Growth

• Therapy and healing:

  • “I’ve done a lot of therapy... Out of network therapy, so it cost me a small fortune because the good therapists, they’re not in network.” [52:49]

• Sobriety:

  • Jesse opens up about his struggles with addiction, family history, relapse, and acceptance of the need for sobriety.
  • “[Addiction is] a progressive disease…maybe you can go out once, twice, three times, but the fifth time it gets you…when you mess up, you have so much shame. It’s just never worth it.” [63:01–63:48]

• On patience and industry lessons:

  • “Patience has never been my strong suit... After your first big break, it sometimes takes years to get the next role to take you to a higher level. You gotta be patient.” [39:53]

• Perfectionism and learning:

  • Jesse describes how perfectionism, not arrogance, led to intense behavior on set: “Perfectionism is basically just insecurity that manifests as trying to control everything…You kinda suck the air out of the room.” [59:59–60:13]
  • “As the lead actor, it’s almost your responsibility to make sure everyone’s having a good experience. At times, I think I failed.” [60:55–61:06]

New Ventures: Neutral Skincare

• Origin and philosophy:

  • Jesse’s new skincare line “Neutral”—gender-neutral, clean, minimal steps: “It’s totally self-funded... only four products right now... the product’s really clean, one of the cleanest around.” [12:07–12:45]
  • “A vertical that’s authentic for my brand.” [11:31]
  • Supported by friends, influencers, and prominent media appearances (GMA, The View). [12:58]
  • “I don’t think there’s another straight guy in the industry pushing skincare.” [54:02]

• Amanda and Jesse discuss the new terrain and rewards of entrepreneurship and how it compares to the unpredictable entertainment business.

Relationships & Personal Life

• On dating:

  • Jesse primarily dated “normies” (non-industry people): “Most of the women I’ve…certainly haven’t dated for my career. Only many, many opportunities.” [56:11]
  • Happy with current girlfriend Helen, whose TikToks often feature Jesse: “She’s literally using me on her TikTok so that she can get to 10,000 followers so she can start monetizing—queen.” [55:12]
  • “I have limits… I wouldn’t do anything to be on a hot new show or sell my brand for $200 million.” [56:32–56:58]

• On wellness, aging, and self-optimization:

  • Jesse is “really into health and wellness” now, humorously describing his adventures with red light therapy and other “Huberman” hacks. [41:56–42:36]
  • He works out daily and is candid about the appearance pressures in Hollywood—especially in his 20s on shirtless roles. [41:29]

Insights on Modern Fame, Social Media, and Reboots

• On social media:

  • Jesse muses about how much bigger his stardom would have been if John Tucker Must Die had premiered during the era of Instagram/TikTok.
  • “If John Tucker Must Die came out today, I’d have 30 million followers and I’d be rich as hell.” [67:08]

• What the internet gets wrong about him:

  • “The weirdest thing about being a heartthrob is people believing that that’s all you are... the Internet thinks I am shallow and I am very deep.” [66:54–67:32]

• On potential reboots:

  • Jesse would love a John Tucker Must Die sequel but admits it seems unlikely. He also keeps in touch with some co-stars (Arielle Kebbel, Penn Badgley). [65:34–65:59]

• Personal music:

  • Continues to play guitar and write, even providing music for a Hallmark project. [64:59–65:08]

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MEMORABLE QUOTES & TIMESTAMPS

• On being typecast:
  “I never broke out of [the heartthrob role]… because of the roles I took earlier… I never necessarily got the opportunities to play the roles I really want to.” — Jesse [14:38]

• On industry objectification:
  “I definitely was over sexualized and objectified within the industry… my journey dealing with my appearance started at a very young age… as a child I got ridiculed and teased insanely.” — Jesse [17:00–18:31]

• On regret and growth:
  “I’ve had incidents where my reaction outweighed the offense... I’ve threatened directors before... I’m a little embarrassed by some of my behavior, but I’m making amends.” — Jesse [52:08–52:22]

• On therapy:
  “A lot of therapy… the good therapists, they’re not in network.” — Jesse [52:49]

• On addiction:
  “When you mess up and have one of those…bender or a really, really late night, you have so much shame… it’s never worth it.” — Jesse [63:26–63:48]

• On patience in Hollywood:
  “After your first big break… you really have to be patient, and patience has never been my strong suit.” — Jesse [39:53]

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TIMESTAMPS OF IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• Intro & Jesse's heartthrob era: [07:05–14:38]
• On bullying, childhood, and first steps into modeling and acting: [17:00–21:49]
• NYU/Modeling/PASSIONS: [21:49–33:09]
• Desperate Housewives & pivotal career moments: [34:55–40:05]
• Peak fame & John Tucker Must Die: [40:05–42:32]
• Wellness and current lifestyle: [41:56–42:36]
• Candid talk about regret, therapy, addiction, and growth: [51:58–63:48]
• Skincare brand Neutral & entrepreneurship: [12:07–12:58, 54:02, 67:58]
• Modern fame, relationship realness, and social media: [55:12–56:58, 67:08]
• Looking forward—reboots, music, self-perception: [65:34–67:53]

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TONE & STYLE

Casual, candid, deeply self-aware, and filled with Amanda’s signature warmth and humor. Jesse is honest, a little self-deprecating, and refreshingly open about mistakes, missteps, and lessons learned, making this an engaging and relatable listen for fans and new listeners alike.

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For more, check out Jesse's skincare brand: nutrlskin.com, and follow Amanda and Jesse on social media for updates!

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Okay, okay. Okay. Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to a new episode of Not Skin But Not Fat. The Secret Amanda. How's everybody doing? We're post Oscar Sundays, which, by the way, I always watch. Like, I even got into fights with people yesterday. Like, my family was like, okay, but you don't watch. You only care about the red carpets. I was like, I watch, okay? It is my job, and I'm obsessed. I love. You know, and then I didn't watch. Oh, my God. Like, literally in the afternoon. I'm defending it. I'm literally like, of course I watch. Like, I don't even care about the red carpet. And there I was just looking at the red carpet looks, which, by the way, were so underwhelming. Like, there are a few good ones, but it was just, like, underwhelming. I don't know. And then waking up this morning because obviously the Vanity Fair after party is past my bedtime here in New York, and then I wake up to the Vanity Fair party, and I'm like, wow. Wow. And it's like, everybody should have worn that outfit to the Oscars. You know what I mean? It just, like. And also, like, that just seems, like fun. I feel like people can chill like it's a party. So I feel like the energy on the carpet is, like, different, you know? And plus, you don't only just have the nominees. You have, like, the Kendall Jenner and the Kim Kardashian, the Hailey Bieber, like, of it all. So it just seemed, like, so much fun. And also just better outfits. Do we feel bad for Timothee Chalamet who didn't win? And, like, I've talked to people about this, like, on the side of my life, because this is what I do. But, like, do we think that, like, the ballet opera of it all and, like, all of his press and, you know, the fact that people were kind of getting the ick or. Or not liking what he was saying, can that affect winning the Oscar? You know what I mean? Like, on the same breath, like, Sean Penn won Best Supporting and people were pissed. Like, why would you give somebody who didn't even, you know, care to. To show up? And it's like, because they were voting on, like, best supporting actor, and they thought he was best supporting Actor. Like, I'm naive that way. Like, we're voting, you know, and we're. I'm thinking, part of the Academy, and they voted. By the way, Sean Penn was stellar in one battle after another, like, stellar. He was, wow. Like, you literally, like, you saw him on the screen and you were. Your whole body tensed up. He was amazing. And, like, how cool. I mean, Chelsea Handler said it when she was on the pot. How cool that he liked. Didn't give a. To be there. He was like, I'm smoking cigs at home. Okay. No, he was somewhere I read. I can't remember. Like, want to visit, like, a president of some country? I'm not. I. I can't even remember what I saw. But anyway, so is it just we're voting on who we thought gave the best performance, or do you think they can be affected? I mean, I guess they're human, the voters. They could be publicists, they could be actors, they could be directors. Like, it could be like, oh, ill to Chalamet not voting for him. I mean, I guess, yeah, it's not robots. It's not like. So I guess it could be affected by the press run and everything that he's saying. Listen, imo, like, the ballet and opera thing. Oh, my God. When I first saw it, I. I watched the clip over and over again, and I was like, why did he say this? Like, it's not like if a celeb gets asked a question that is so direct and then they answer it and then they get in trouble, you know, or it's like he just said it out of his fucking ass. Like, What? Like, Matthew McConaughey was there and he was like, what? You know, and it's like, I'm sure he. After seeing the uproar that this caused, you know, it's like, why the fuck did I say that? And I'm sure he watches the clip and is like, absolutely no reason. Like, there's absolutely no reason why I said that. Like, I said that for absolutely no reason. Like, nobody asked, like, what forms of art. Like, I don't know why he said that. He was just. I think he was constantly on this press run trying to prove how passionate he is about moviemaking, how passionate he's about acting, how all in he is, how talented he is, how great he is. And I feel like, you know, of course, the opera and the ballet can, you know, be offended or whatever, but I think it's more about that. It's like, Another punch down of this press tour that is. I mean, it's funny because I was gonna say Fran Drescher. Fran Drescher, right. That's a real name. Past president of Sex. She got asked about that a lot on the carpet because she plays his mom, I think, in Marty supreme. And I haven't watch it. I can't believe. I know, I know, I know. And she said it, right? She was like, you know, maybe less press. You know, maybe less press. Like, you know, but she said, he's a good guy. He. His parents are artists. Like, none of it made sense. Like, his family are dancers. It was a stupid thing that he said, but. But the other thing is, like, somebody compiled this. But, like, he said it before, like, he's obsessed. He's a man obsessed. Or it's not even a man obsessed. I mean, sometimes we each have the things that we repeat in our lives that we think are, like, good lines, you know? Like, I hear myself doing it sometimes when I repeat something and I'm like, oh, my God, Amanda, like, that's your thing. You say it to every person you meet, you know? And, like, that. That's his thing is, like, dissing the ballet and. And the. The opera. I don't know why. Maybe he, like, secretly wanted to be a ballet dancer. But obviously, as per the Internet, it went far. People were, like, comparing Tom Holland and how he spoke about the ballet versus Timothy. And, like, I do agree, this press run, I don't think looked good for him. Like, he didn't come across as, like, wow, what a man. She came across, like, pretty, like, you know, full of himself. A little, like, too. Like, I'm an actor, you know, and people get the ick from that. Like, people don't love that. Like, you can take yourself seriously, but, like, just don't, you know, don't. Don't do too much. Don't do too much. I don't know. Do you. I wonder if, like, Kylie saves him because, like, then you see them on the Vanity Fair carpet. You see them on the carpet, and you're like, there it is. Whoop, there it is. There is the star. There is the star. Even though people were saying he looked like Kevin from the Backstreet Boys at the Oscars, and it was cracking me up. But these two, you guys. Kylie did say in a recent interview she wants more babies in these last years of her twenties. And you know whose babies she's having? Timothy. Okay. But it was funny. Like, people doja. Cat chimed in, which, I don't know if it's real. But it showed that Kylie Jenner commented on Doja Cat's video hating on Timothy. It showed that Kylie wrote, calm down, lol. And I was like, is that real? Because I couldn't find it. Like, we all went to the comments. I couldn't find the comment. So you never know in today's age. I'm like, what's real? AI is that anyway, in today's age, okay, that's a good trend decision in today's age. But if you could go back to the fucking 2000s, wouldn't you be sliving like 2000s like that era, like John Tucker Mazai era? Yes, that's where I'm going, you guys. Today's guest is John Tucker. It's Jesse Metcalfe. And yeah, I mean, you probably fell in love with him as the iconic John Rowland on Desperate Housewives, AKA the Gardener that launched like, just TV crushes worldwide. John Tucker must die, like we said. And he's here today. He has a new skincare line called Neutral because he literally looks 7 and he's 47. So made sense for him. And we talk about his early rise to fame and, like, navigating Hollywood, what he did wrong, like, coming up in Hollywood. He has a lot of regrets. He, he's very honest in this pod and very vulnerable and very real that I'm telling you. Like, I was thinking about our conversation for a while and also, like, very in awe of, like, how real he was being. Like, he has, again, a lot of regrets from his career. He wants to make up for it. He wants to make amends with people that he was not good with and he wants to do more. And it's really touching, you know, and, and interesting as he reflects. So, yeah, that's a good one. Enjoy my convo with Jesse. Are we both with fake glasses or are you.

[B]

I have real glasses.

[A]

Mine are also real. I just don't really need that.

[B]

And I'm like, losing my vision again. That's how old I am.

[A]

I thought we were.

[B]

I had to bring glasses back.

[A]

I thought we were both pretending. No, I do. So I do have a number. It's just like, I don't really need it.

[B]

Okay, but you felt like you wanted to put some prescription lenses in there, just like, just in case someone checks.

[A]

No, no, I failed the driver's thing. So then confident. I was like 2A. And they were like, no. And then I was like, what? And then I was like, I did this. I've always wanted glasses and I, I did this to Myself. Yeah, but I like them. I think it's chic.

[B]

You willed your vision to go.

[A]

I will.

[B]

So you could wear glasses.

[A]

Yeah. What's your number?

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

It's high.

[B]

I mean, it was. I used to be, like, close to legally blind, and then I got Lasik. Lasik's apparently terrible for you.

[A]

What age did you get Lasik?

[B]

I got Lasik. I got Lasik actually. In a Golden Glob gift bag. You know how they just reported that the Golden Globes gift bags are like a million dollar gift bag?

[A]

Wait, so I didn't see that?

[B]

Okay, Back when I was at the Golden Globes, probably in like 2005 or 2006, I don't think they were a million dollars, but they were still like

[A]

300,000, like, worth of gifts.

[B]

Yeah, you got, like, some amazing stuff. You got, like a high end watch. You got. And I got Lasik eye surgery. That was like. There was $30,000.

[A]

There was a card.

[B]

Yes. Lasik eye surgery gift card.

[A]

I am dying that you made that appointment.

[B]

Oh, I made that appointment. Are you kidding me? It was amazing.

[A]

That is amazing.

[B]

But now they' out that Lasik eye surgery is terrible.

[A]

Why? What are they saying?

[B]

One, it doesn't last, you know, I mean, it was great for a while, but two, it causes dry eye when you get older.

[A]

Wait, what age did you do the. The lasik?

[B]

I was 20. 25. 26.

[A]

25, 26, yeah. So throughout your career, you were with contacts? This is.

[B]

I was. I was groundbreaking Information with child. No contact.

[A]

You were wearing contacts. Wearing.

[B]

And how annoying are contacts?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

For someone who's worn contacts, you know, I mean, you end up, like, sleeping in your contacts all the time, and then your contacts, like, in the back of your eye and you're like, pulling. I mean, it's like.

[A]

So you get the Golden Globe thing. You call the number on the back.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You make the appointment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You do it.

[B]

And. And it's. And it's like, who came with you? You need a Clockwork Orange. You know, when you get Lasik eye surgery, you know, have you seen that last scene in A Clockwork Orange where they're like, you know, showing the lead character all the violent images and stuff, and. And his eyelids are held open by these, like, little forceps. That's what it's like when you get Lasik.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's kind of scary.

[A]

Yeah. So are you going to do it again?

[B]

I don't even know if you can do it again. I haven't really even looked into it. I just started wearing glasses again.

[A]

Well, it looks good on you. Thank you, Jesse.

[B]

That was an interesting little detour. That was a nice warm up.

[A]

That is not a detour, Jesse.

[B]

That's the show.

[A]

That is the show. Excuse me. Excuse me. I love this nugget. How are you? Thank you for coming.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

[A]

You look amazing.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Like, I was going to ask, like, what's your skincare routine? I'm like, duh, you came out with a skin care line.

[B]

I thought it made sense. I thought it worked.

[A]

Wait, so everyone told you you're not 47 years old?

[B]

Yeah, I was getting that a lot on the carpet. People ask me about my skincare routine. I was like, this, I could do this. This could work. This could be a. A vertical that's authentic for my brand.

[A]

Yeah. So what, wait, what were you have a brand? What were you doing like, before?

[B]

Like, were you podge routine? Taking a product from this line? Taking a product from this line. You know, whatever. I was gift. Whatever was on the counter. I mean, I wasn't putting too much thought into it really.

[A]

And then when you, you came up with. It's called neutral.

[B]

It's called neutral phonetically.

[A]

Yeah. Love that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And it's neutral because it's gender neutral for me.

[B]

I gotta get kind of thinking like carbon neutral. The product's really clean. One of the clean, cleanest around.

[A]

If I look it up on like Yuca.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yuka is going to be happy with it.

[B]

I don't even know if it's on Yuca, but I would imagine so.

[A]

Okay, let's get on.

[B]

Only the active ingredients and natural botanicals. There's no additives. There's no silicones, parabens, there's no fragrances.

[A]

Are you like a healthy guy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like a clean guy.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's a new thing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I relatively.

[A]

Relatively. But you wanted to be super clean and everything, the skin care. And it's only like four steps. We're keeping it simple.

[B]

Well, it's only four products as of right now. We definitely have plans to roll out other. Other products.

[A]

And how's it going? How does it feel to be a brand owner?

[B]

It's going really good. Yeah, yeah, it's. Well, first of all, it's. It's totally self funded, you know, so it's a lot of pressure.

[A]

Like just you.

[B]

I haven't taken any outside investment. I've been very lucky that I have a lot of people Friends in the industry that have been supportive of me. A lot of influencers that have posted for free. Friends that have posted for free. I have a great relationship with Tory Johnson, who produces the segments on Good Morning America and the View. And that's definitely helped the business, you know, because you make a substantial amount of revenue on those shows. But it's been a. It's been an interesting journey. I've actually been having a lot of fun with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You probably would have never imagined yourself getting into this kind of thing.

[B]

I imagine myself doing a lot of things.

[A]

Yeah. Like what? Like what?

[B]

You know, when I was a kid, I didn't know what I like.

[A]

You are a kid now.

[B]

I'm really not. I'm really, actually really annoying.

[A]

Have you been told that?

[B]

Let it out.

[A]

You know, because, like, what the helly.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I'm 47 years old. Yeah, I'm 47 years old. You know, I feel it. I feel it on the inside.

[A]

Do you really?

[B]

I do.

[A]

You're like, oh, my knee hurts. Does it really?

[B]

Yeah, it does. Got a lot of aches and pains.

[A]

You guys are 2000s heartthrob. That's you.

[B]

I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know what I like about you? No, don't. No. So I was gonna say what I like about you is that I feel like you haven't rejected that term.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like you have. People are like. Would be like, you know, and try to want to be, you know, labeled something else. I feel like you people are afraid

[B]

of being pigeonholed, you know, and having that kind of pretty boy heartthrob moniker. It's, It's. It can be difficult to break out of that.

[A]

And how did you feel about it?

[B]

I never broke out of it. I mean, it's, It's. It's. It's challenging, for sure. I mean, I definitely feel like because of the roles that I took earlier in my. In my career, I. I never necessarily got the opportunity to. To play the type of roles I really want to play.

[A]

Like, what was.

[B]

I really. Still haven't, you know, but. But it's. It's never over. You know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And I'm still striving within the industry, but I've definitely shifted gears and tried to do other things, you know, to. To stay relevant to. To. To pay the bills, you know, I mean, you know, starting. Starting a business, starting a brand has been something totally new to me, and it's kind of like reinvigorated me in a lot of ways. And inspired me to, you know, just believe that I can. That I can do anything that I set my mind to, even at the ripe average of 47 years old. So.

[A]

Well, because it's like, you know, that's why I'm so interested in talking with, like, actors and actresses, because so much of this industry is, like, not in your control. I mean, all of it, really. I mean, what can you control? Like, getting good at your craft or, like, going on the audition or sending in the tape, but, like, it's not in your control. So starting a business that's in your control, like, that you can be like, I'm gonna wake up and do the thing.

[B]

And you're so right about that. That's so insightful that, you know. You know that obviously you've interviewed a lot of people in the industry, but, I mean, all we can really do is kind of look our best and work on our craft and give the best possible audition. And now that all auditions are basically on tape and not even in person, it's even more challenging.

[A]

Yeah. You think it was better to get in the room?

[B]

I do. Yeah, I do. I think there's a certain energy in the room. You can convey something about yourself, about the essence of who you are that you can't really convey over.

[A]

I agree. How do they keep that going? Because I agree. Even for, like, an interview or intro call, like, not even on an audition or a chemistry read. Like, I just interviewed somebody who. She did the chemistry read for this huge Netflix movie on Zoom.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, and it's like, how do you get the vibe?

[B]

Engage that. I know.

[A]

How do you even get the vibes?

[B]

Yeah, seriously.

[A]

But also, like, talking about being pigeonholed, like, being like, the hot guy is, like, a good thing. You know what I mean? It's like. Like, you're sure.

[B]

I'll tell you some stories. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not always what. What it's cracked up to be. It's not always what you think.

[A]

Oh, did you feel like. Did you feel over sexualized or.

[B]

I. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that. Although at times, yes, I definitely was over sexualized and objectified, you know, within the industry. But I mean, I certainly didn't come on your show to complain about that. No, no, no. But I would be a victim in any regard. But I mean, you know, my journey dealing with sort of my appearance and the way that I look started at a very young age. Very young age. Like when I was a Child. I was a very pretty boy, you know, And I got ridiculed and teased as a child, like, insanely.

[A]

For being beautiful.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, it. Like what, what were they saying? I don't know.

[B]

For not looking enough like a boy. For not looking masculine enough. I have no idea. Just for standing out. For not looking like everyone else. I don't really know.

[A]

What was the kids saying?

[B]

What various. What various different people were thinking or that I looked like a girl. That I looked like a girl, that I was gay. Like, all this stuff and this. This kind of followed me. It followed me through Adoles. It followed me. In middle school, I dealt with it. In high school, I dealt with it. When I came to Hollywood, it just kept coming up. It like it haunted me, you know, And I think that was one of the main reasons why I was kind of. I had a chip on my shoulder. I mean, I was kind of, like angry when I made it, when I finally made it, you know, when I was like, I grew up and got taller and got bigger and, like, had money. Like, I was a jerk.

[A]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

Because I was just so sick and tired of people treating me poorly.

[A]

Did your confidence grow, though?

[B]

Oh, yeah, my confidence grew. I was even confident back then.

[A]

Oh, you were?

[B]

Even when I was getting, you know, kind of made fun of and bullied, you know, as an adolescent and a little boy, I mean, I still sort of believed I was meant for bigger and better things, for greater things. I absolutely. I couldn't wait to get out of the small town.

[A]

Where did you grow up?

[B]

I grew up in Connecticut.

[A]

In Connecticut.

[B]

London, Connecticut.

[A]

How far is that from, like, New York City?

[B]

Two hours.

[A]

Okay. But it felt small townish.

[B]

It was super small town.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you go. You go into the area where I grew up. It's very blue collar.

[A]

So what age did you know?

[B]

Emphasis on the art, on the arts. Not a lot of diversity.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So what age did you know? You said you were meant for bigger things.

[B]

Well, I mean, I was always in. I was always artistic. You know, I drew, I painted, I sang.

[A]

Did you get bullied for that?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I never acted as a child, you know, I went to a performing arts high school, actually. High school called the Williams School. That was on Connecticut college campus in New London, Connecticut. A really hoity toity kind of school. No locks on the lockers. You know, everything was run by the honor code, you know, no grade uniforms. Oh, no, there were grades.

[A]

Oh, they were grades.

[B]

There were grades. It was a highly competitive school. I mean, we had a couple. Well, my graduating class was a big graduating class. It had 50 kids in it.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And we had a couple kids that got 1600s on their SATs. A perfect score.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

You know, so it was like, was kind of for kids that.

[A]

What did you get on your SATs?

[B]

I got like a 1300.

[A]

That's amazing. 1300 is a good score. Did you get into, did you apply to college?

[B]

I only applied to New York University. And you went and you went to New York University? Yeah.

[A]

And did you live in the city, in the dorms or what you do?

[B]

I did, I lived in the dorms. Yeah. Well, I lived in Weinstein, you know.

[A]

Was that like Union Square?

[B]

That was on. That was on. That was on, yeah, that was on a university place.

[A]

Oh, cool. So how did you like that, that time of your life?

[B]

It was an intense time in my life, for sure. I mean, coming from a small town in Connecticut, even though it was just two hours away. Yeah, it's a totally different world in the city.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Obviously. I mean, the city. I, I always knew I wanted to come to New York for college. I knew that's where opportunity would strike. You know, I. I did some modeling, you know, when I was in high school and I used to take the train sometimes call out from school to the city and do like photo shoots for YM and like 17 magazine.

[A]

How were you getting these jobs? Like, did they reach out to you?

[B]

Agent.

[A]

You got an agent?

[B]

I went to an open casting call for modeling, like my sophomore year in high school, and I got an agency.

[A]

And you got like an agency that could send you on things.

[B]

They would send. They would just kind of like book me. I would get direct bookings.

[A]

Did you want to make money from it or did you want to make money or did you.

[B]

Everything I did kind of was about money when I was a kid.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I didn't grow up with a ton of money, so I, I was very fixated on having money, making money, being rich, raising my family's quality of life.

[A]

And you were. Sounds like you were like a very self aware kid. Like, you knew, you were like. I knew that I had a pretty face. I knew people were making fun of me for it. I knew I was going to do big things. And now I can use this to like, make money.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I was, I was pretty self aware. I mean, yeah, I was aware. I was aware of all of those things, but I was kind of still deeply affected by, you know, my life circumstance at that time. You Know, I had a lot going on. You know, I was, I had a father who had, you know, some, some issues, you know, with the law and drugs and alcohol and was sort of. I was estranged from him for like 15 years. You know, I mean, I had a turbulent, formative teenage sort of life that definitely echoed throughout adulthood and throughout my career in Hollywood.

[A]

Were you like, I need to get the fuck out of New London, Connecticut. Okay.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

We'll be right back after the break. You guys, drum rule. I have really exciting news. So Dear Media is heading to New York and I will be there. Yup. Dear Media is doing this event. It's called DM by Night. Okay. It's an evening of comedy, juicy conversations, and your favorite hosts, including me, obviously bringing our shows to the stage. So this is going to be like a live show of your faves, like a night of stand up. Except like, not stand up, but like, you know, when you go and there's like comedian community. So it'll be like podcast host, podcast host, podcast host. So have a night of so much fun. It's me. It's Claudia and Jackie from the Toast. It's Ben and Josh from Good Guys and Taylor Strecker is going to be hosting it. It's going to be a Webster hall. So in NYC on May 16th. You guys be there or be square. It's going to be so much fun. There's going to be drinks, brand activations, nightlife vibe. Like, it's just going to be a vibe. So this is going to be a night where your group chat is going to be. It's going to come to life. Okay, Grab your crew and come hang out irl. If you're in the New York area or you need an excuse to get away, this is your sign. Head to Dear Media.com events for tickets and more info. Hope to see you there. It is so wild that these days we insure everything. Insure with an eye. Cars that lose value the second we drive them. Phones, we trade in trips we haven't taken yet. That one I'm getting. Never know what to do. I'm like, no. Yes. I don't know. But our pets are pets that are part of our family, that are truly irreplaceable somehow. Go unprotected. With ASPCA pet health insurance, you can get help with unexpected vet bills and make sure your dog or cat gets the care that they need when they need it. And in looking out for them, there's an extra little something in there for you too. Okay? Because when you enroll in an ASPCA pet health insurance plan. You could get a $25Amazon gift card. It's a little trait for you while you're doing something great for your pet. It's been around for almost 20 years. It has covered nearly 1 million pets in that time. You could also tailor the plan to fit your budget, your lifestyle, and your pet's particular quirks. Okay? Vet bills. Let me tell you, they never show up on time. Okay? They never show up when it's convenient, and you're never prepared for it. So get extra prepared, okay? To Explore coverage, visit A S PCA pet insurance.com not skinny. Again, that's as PCA pet insurance.com/not skinny. Eligibility restrictions apply. Visit ASPCA pet insurance.com/Amazon Terms for more info. This is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PGC Insurance Agency Ltd. The ASPCA is not an insurer and it's not engaged in the business of insurance. I told you guys once and I'll tell you again, I am a bar girly. It's funny. Like, I remember even my friends making fun of me when I was little. Like, didn't matter if I was on a diet. It didn't matter, like, what was going on in my life. I'm always having something sweet and I'm always having a snack in my bag. And that hasn't changed about me. And luckily, like, with the times, like, better products came out, healthier products came out with better ingredients that you feel good about eating. So my current obsession is IQ Bar. Okay, IQ Bar. Their bars are amazing. They're clean. They're entirely free from gluten, dairy, soy, GMOs, and artificial ingredients. They're packed with clean, delicious ingredients that just keep you healthy. They even have magnesium, lion's mane in there, and most importantly, plenty of plant protein, tons of fiber, and no added sugar. Like, that doesn't happen. Okay? It's so good. I love the flavors. Banana nut is one of my faves. It's just honestly good and honestly great ingredients. Mama Hirsch approved all of it. They also have IQ Mix, which is electrolytes with zero sugar. So you need that if you're working out, if you're getting a headache, if you're feeling sluggish, if you're feeling dehydrated, if you want water that doesn't taste like water. Do you get what I mean? They also have IQ Joe, which is a mushroom coffee. If you're trying to get that natural caffeine and they have that in flavors as well. Right now, IQ Bar is offering my podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the Ultimate Sampler PAC, plus free shipping. To get your 20% off, text not skinny to 64,000. That's not skinny to 64,000. Again, you text Not Skinny to 64,000. That's the number. 64,000. You text not skinny message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. Let me tell you a life hack. Always have liquid IV on you. Okay? I forgot mine when I went up to Utah, Madrid. Can't stop talking about it. But I did forget it. And I was freaking out because I was like, I'm in altitude. Like I am prone to getting headache. Like I need my liquid iv. Especially like in my life. I'm running between recording podcasts, school drop offs, like trying to survive the day honestly. And staying hydrated is one of those things like I know I should be doing, but sometimes, like, I don't drink enough water. And that's where liquid IV comes in. Okay. It has three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients all in a single stick. So one stick of liquid IV in 16 ounces of water is more hydrating than water alone. It helps replenish electrolytes and essential vitamins and really supports hydration. It's also the only sugar free hydration product on the market clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone. Okay, we need that. We need that. Also, we need sugar free. Sorry. Not sorry. So like I said, zero sugar, three times the electrolytes and eight essential vitamins. Also amazing flavors. Strawberry, watermelon, white, peach, lemon, lime, raspberry, lemonade, rainbow sherbet and so much more. Rehydrate with science backed hydration from Liquid IV's hydration multiplier. Rehydrate with science backed hydration from Liquid IV's hydration Multiplier. Sugar free, tear poor, live more. Go to liquid I.com and get 20% off your first order with the code not skinny at checkout. Again, that's 20% off your first order with the code not skinny. Liquid iv dot com. And we're back. So New York, nyu. Did you, did you go to Tish, like the.

[B]

I did.

[A]

Did you. Do you have to audition? Like.

[B]

And I studied film and television.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Okay. So I, I studied writing and directing, cinematography, film history. It was a pretty amazing program. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed myself. I had to write an essay about my favorite movie at the time, which was the Basketball Diaries movie with Leonardo DiCaprio. That, like, really impacted me and that got me. Got me in.

[A]

Oh, that essay got you in?

[B]

Because I had never, you know, made a short film or anything. It was just really. The essay.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And. And I had an incredible time and, and everything that's happened for me, you know, in Hollywood started here in New York. So I was modeling. I went to an open casting call for a couple commercials, and then I went to an open casting call for a daytime television show called Passion.

[A]

Oh, and that's how you got Passions?

[B]

Yeah. And I had no. So I had basically no experience. I go to this open casting call for Passions. They give me some sides, you know, some script pages. They tell me to go out into the lobby of this building and like, study these pages. I have no idea what I'm doing. I try to memorize these pages to the best of my ability. I come back in there, I audition. I'm terrible. I mean, literally terrible. I just, I have no clue what I'm doing. But I could see whoever was running the casting that she had a little, little sparkle in her eye. You know, I was kind of like, oh, this, this woman kind of seems like she's interested in me in some capacity left there being like, okay, well, maybe that didn't go so bad. I heard nothing for like two to three weeks. I get a phone call in my dorm room saying that they want to fly me to Los Angeles for a screen test. I'm like, wow, this. This is insane. So then I. Then I got serious. Then I got an acting coach, I worked on the audition scenes, I fly out to la, they put me up at like the Hilton at Universal Studios. I do the screen test, and I nail the screen test.

[A]

You nail it? Yeah.

[B]

Like, it went really well. I'm like, okay, that. That went well. I get back to New York, I get into my dorm room, I get into the regular swing of things. Basically, two days goes by, I get another call. Casting's like, oh, we. We might need you to come back to Los Angeles. I'm like, I can't come back to Los Angeles. Like, I'm. I'm in college here at nyu. Like, what are you talking about? What's going on? We're gonna have someone else call you back. Someone else calls me back and goes, we'd like to offer you this role. And I literally, like, I hung up the phone. I. We were in sort of an apartment style dorm where I had a roommate on one side. And then There was two other guys living on the other side of the dorm. And those guys were kind of like my, my good friends. And they were both in film too. And I literally walked into their dorm room and I was like, I'm out of here. I'm going to LA to be a famous actor. I go, you guys have fun.

[A]

And that was tough. Wait, so you didn't end up finishing nyu?

[B]

No, I dropped out with like a semester left. And never went back.

[A]

And never went back and finished.

[B]

Not that a television and film degree is really all that valuable, I gotta be honest.

[A]

I know, but. But you did like it. Like you enjoyed, you've learned experience there.

[B]

There was some professors that really, really inspired me on the act side, on the, on the directing and film making side, on the writing side. I mean, it's an incredible program.

[A]

You were like, I'm out, I'm out. But wait, don't. A lot of the. It was like a soap.

[B]

It was a soap, so. But it's the wackiest soap that's literally ever been on television. Arguably it could be the worst television show that's ever aired, but people loved it. People were obsessed with.

[A]

What network was it on?

[B]

It was on NBC.

[A]

Oh. Cuz nb, abc, like films their soaps here in the city.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And filmed out there.

[B]

Yeah, we filmed at cbs Radford, actually.

[A]

Okay, so when you first auditioned and you said you bombed because like I feel like soap acting. Is it like a different type of acting?

[B]

Isn't it more like actors just aren't as good? It's not a different type of act.

[A]

You're saying if like Leo was on a. I get what you're saying.

[B]

I think Leo was on a soap sometimes early in his career, you know, I know he was on like. I, I don't. What was he on? Like Growing Pains or something.

[A]

Right, right. It's not Growing Pains. Okay, but, but there is that, like look into camera a little bit.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Maybe that just wander off and like end with a long star, like in the camera. Okay, that's a good point.

[A]

Okay, so that does exist. So, so you took an acting coach and you got good and you felt confident, like coming on to.

[B]

How long did you. Still didn't even feel confident in my craft, you know, and when I came into, into came to Hollywood, when I came to Los Angeles, I still really didn't have much experience as an actor. Yeah, you know, I really sort of learned on the job. I worked with several different acting coaches like Leslie Khan, Ivana Chubbuck. Ivana Chubbuck kind of changed my life. She's incredible. She's such a character and was known for being maybe a little. A little mean, you know, in her acting classes. Like, she would just sort of cut right to the, to the core of the issue.

[A]

She would be like, you're a terror.

[B]

Kind of eviscerate people, really, you know, but it, but it was good because it gave you a thick skin. Yeah. Gave you a thick skin. And that's something that you need to survive, you know, in the industry.

[A]

So how many years were you doing Passion?

[B]

I was on Passions for five years or five years. Yeah.

[A]

And then you left. Did they kill you?

[B]

I left.

[A]

Okay. You left. You were like, I'm over this.

[B]

I wanted to see if I could, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get something better. Yeah.

[A]

And you did.

[B]

I did.

[A]

You got Desperate Housewives.

[B]

How long after my first pilot season, my friend. I actually went the whole pilot season when there was pilot season.

[A]

There's not really pilots anymore. Do you guys miss it? Because I feel like people talk.

[B]

It was kind of fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it was intense. You know, you'd have, like, sometimes three auditions a day, and they were in person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so it was kind of. It was a rush, you know, it was.

[A]

Right. It was like a big thing to look now.

[B]

Now it's like you have a week to prepare an audition. You can tape it 50 times if you want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, and still not get it and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's the story of my life. No, but I. Yeah. I don't know. What were we even talking about?

[A]

We were talking about getting Desperate Housewives.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So I went, I went an entire pilot season. I got close on another show called Veronica Mars. I think I actually had a test deal, you know, when, when they like your audition, then they set up a, A test deal with you, where you basically have to audition for the studio and the network. They decide how much you're going to get paid. They sort of write up a preliminary contract, and I, I, I had to choose between testing for Veronica Mars, which was also a really great show.

[A]

Right, Kristen Bell.

[B]

Exactly. Or testing for this other show, which sort of seemed like a, A primetime soap opera, Desperate Housewives. So I ended up testing for that show and booking it.

[A]

Wait, you needed to decide which one.

[B]

Which one to test?

[A]

You can't do both.

[B]

No, you can't. You can do both.

[A]

So how did you decide to go for the one that's more. That sounded more soapy?

[B]

We kind of just guessed because you

[A]

Were like, maybe I got good at this. And we kind of.

[B]

We kind of. We kind of. We thought the role was maybe better suited for me, I think. I don't know. I listened to my reps at the

[A]

time and hashtag, no regrets, obviously.

[B]

Obviously.

[A]

Obviously. I heard a recent story that you said about not making it to an Entourage audition.

[B]

Yeah. I like. I, like, chose to go to, like, a party in Malibu and not, like, audition for Entourage. I, like, read the script and I was like, what's this? You know? Yeah. I didn't really think, by the way,

[A]

when I read that article.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you and Adrian.

[B]

Yeah, we. We look a lot alike.

[A]

A lot alike. I was like, that makes total sense.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So it. You had the audition and you were at the stage in your life because you. You've spoken about, like, getting sober.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So were you. Was that a non sober phase thing?

[B]

That was probably a non sober decision. Yeah, sure.

[A]

Yeah. Where you're like, yeah.

[B]

Or it could have just been an idiotic decision by, like, a young guy who thought he knew better, you know,

[A]

which I do believe in. Like, whatever is meant for me is meant for me.

[B]

I do. Yeah, I do. You know, But I also sometimes ruminate on the idea that, like, you know, maybe I am. Maybe I have some, like, karma that I'm making up for from, like, a past life or something. Because my journey's been kind of wild, you know, it's been maybe. Maybe from the outside, it looks like I've, you know, kind of, like, always lived a very blessed life. And I have for the most part. But I've had a lot of ups and downs too, you know, And I. And I still really, to this day. And, you know, like I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint, and the journey's not over. But I do feel like I've underachieved.

[A]

You do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, because. Because I'm thinking about that. Because we did also talk about the not in your control in this industry, and a lot of people haven't achieved the things.

[B]

I used to think it was in my control.

[A]

Yeah. That's the thing.

[B]

I used to think it wasn't my control. I mean, look, like when you're hitting and when it's all happening and it's like, one opportunity after the next, you feel great. You think it's gonna last forever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, and you think you're in control.

[A]

Well, what would you tell these kids? Because we see it today, too, but it's like, today with social media, there wasn't really? Social media when John Tucker.

[B]

Wish there was social media when I was on Desperate Housewives and during John Tucker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then I'd have 30 million followers and I'd never have about to worry work again.

[A]

He is a businessman. He is a businessman. But, like, I feel like those moments of skyrocketing become even bigger. Like, you know, the heated rivalry. Guys, right now, right now, it's like the moment gets crazy and they're like,

[B]

instantly on the COVID of gq. It's like you do one show now and you blow up so hard that it's not like you have to do like a couple hit shows and then you get your first big movie and then you're on the COVID of gq. Now it's like, what's the new hot thing?

[A]

Boom.

[B]

Put them on the COVID I know,

[A]

but you know what I was thinking? Because I was thinking about the heated rivalry. Did you watch the show?

[B]

I've watched a little bit of it, yeah.

[A]

So love, love, love. But I was thinking about them because I, like, get in my mind about. I'm like, oh, my God, they're blowing up. They're everywhere. And then I was like, wait, like, remember the show Monsters with Cooper? Did you watch the Menendez brothers? Yeah, yeah. I'm not. They're, they're, they're great. They're amazing. But, like, they had a really, really big moment after the show, too. Do you get what I mean? Like, like, moments are like moments, and, and you gotta capitalize that. Yeah. 20 years ago or now, it's still not guaranteed that after your moment, you're gonna be the hottest on GQ next year. You know what I mean?

[B]

You're right. You're absolutely right about that.

[A]

It's a crazy.

[B]

You gotta have the right team behind you. You got to be very strategic. You got to make the right decisions,

[A]

do all the things, don't. Do all the things, don't be everywhere.

[B]

You gotta do everything right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't. You can't really mess up, you know, in any regard. You know, you can't say the wrong thing. You can't do the wrong thing. You can't pick the wr. It's like. Yeah, it's. It's a very. It's. You have to be very strategic once you have that big break.

[A]

Do you.

[B]

I don't, I don't necessarily think I was that strategic, no.

[A]

So do you have regrets about that?

[B]

No, I think it's like after your first big break, sometimes it takes a year, sometimes it takes two years for you to get the next role. That makes sense. That's going to even take you to a higher level.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you really have to be patient, you know, and patience has never been my strong suit.

[A]

It hasn't, huh? So how long after Desperate Housewives did John Tucker Must Die happen?

[B]

After the first season.

[A]

So I was fired from.

[B]

From Desperate House.

[A]

Well, wait, why were you fired?

[B]

Well, after the first season, they didn't really know where else to take my storyline. And, you know, our, our creator, Mark Cherry was kind of like, hey, this isn't like Desperate House Gardeners, like, this is Desperate Housewives, so unfortunately, you know, you're not going to be a series regular moving forward on the show. We're going to bring you back intermittently. And at that time, I had been offered John Tucker Must Die from 20th Century Fox, so I was like, hey, cool, no big deal, I'm gonna be a movie star. But, you know, thanks.

[A]

Oh, like, you didn't agree to, to come back to jump back in.

[B]

I did come back intermittently, but I wasn't hit, you know, super hard, like, oh, my gosh, I'm being like, fired.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like mega hit show.

[A]

Right? You were like, it's cool.

[B]

I, I took it in stride, you know, because I, you know, I thought that this was only the beginning, but

[A]

you were, it was like. How old were you when you did that?

[B]

26, I think.

[A]

26?

[B]

Yeah, 26. But I looked like I was 17 and.

[A]

Right. Because Eva was, what, 28 or something?

[B]

She was just a little bit older than me.

[A]

I know, that's wild that you were so. You always looked younger than your age. Yeah, you always did. But how did it feel that at that time? Because I remember I had, like, Taylor Lautner on my show, and guys don't really talk about the, like, insecurities, like the way we do. Right. For instance, but, like, taking off your shirt, all of that, Were you confident about it? Was it like, I need to, like, work out a lot and, you know, like, did you have insecurities going into that?

[B]

I worked out. I worked out a lot. Yeah, yeah, it was a lot of pressure.

[A]

It was pressure, definitely.

[B]

I mean, at that time, I was pretty naturally in shape.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, as you, as you get older, you got to put a little bit more work into it. Luckily, I really like working out. Yeah, I honestly, I like it.

[A]

You work out daily, don't you?

[B]

I like fitness, I like health and wellness. I like optimizing my health and wellness in different, you know, health and wellness

[A]

hacks oh, you do like huberman things. You're into all that stuff, aren't you? What's like the weirdest that you do? What are you, are you doing like salmon?

[B]

No, no, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't gone into salmon, salmon sperm just yet.

[A]

I do that. Honestly.

[B]

I mean, just like I, I. Red light there. I have a red light. I just bought a red light sleeping

[A]

bag that you have to like, zip.

[B]

Yeah, I literally get into this like sleeping bag that has, you know, red light emanating from the top and the bottom and I like lay in it for like 30 minutes a day.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

It's, it's incredible.

[A]

Does it do anything?

[B]

It's incredible.

[A]

Really? What does it do?

[B]

Well, it pumps up the red blood cells, you know, in, in your blood.

[A]

I didn't even know.

[B]

Amazing for longevity, it's amazing for healing, it's amazing for your skin, it's amazing for testosterone production. I mean, so much stuff.

[A]

So much stuff.

[B]

So much stuff.

[A]

We'll be right back after the break. Little spoon, Little spoon, what are they feeling? You. Anyone who knows a parent or is a parent knows that feeding decisions aren't a one time thing. You make them again and again, three times a day or more, forever, stage after stage. And let me tell you something, that is life saving and that's little spoon, okay? Oh my God. Especially on the weekend when you have to like worry about meals and you're just busy with the kids. Kids, they're not in school, you don't have any help, like, and you're just like, what am I making? What am I making? Oh my God, it's lunchtime. Oh my God, it's dinner time. Having little spoon in my freezer ready to go is just life saving. I love their meals. They are nutritious and they are packed with hidden veggies. Like their Mac and cheese with hidden veggies is such a hit in my house. Like Lenny devours. And by the way, it arrives to your door, you stick it in the microwave, literally one minute and it's ready. So if you try a little spoon, let me tell you, you're not going to turn back. It's just such a trusted place to shop meals and snacks for babies, toddlers and big kids. Everything made with real ingredients without having to rethink every choice or lower your standards. So everything baby stage, toddler stage, big kid stage. And snacks, their snacks are so good. Their yogo snack pouches, they're beyond smoothies. They even have cookie dip Stirs. Lenny's obsessed. He's like duty tortie. Anyway, modern junk, free snack. Amazing. Okay? Feeding the kids doesn't have to be complicated. Little Spoon makes it easy with real nutritionally balanced meals and snacks designed for every stage. It shows up ready to go, takes the pressure off and somehow still gets devoured. Veggies and all. No artificial dyes, no flavors or sweeteners either. And you know what? That's a win I will take every time. Get 30% off your first online order. Littlespoon.com notskinny30 with code not skinny30. That's little spoon. L I T T L E S p o o n.com not skinny 30 with code not skinny 30 for 30% off your first order. One of my favorite brands for kids swim and resort wear is Minnow. If you're a parent, you know how hard it is to find kids swim. That's actually cute. Also comfortable, well made, and looks like it's quality, you know, And Minnow really, really nails it. Their pieces are classic, timeless, and made with really high quality fabrics.

[B]

Up.

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Whether your kids are at the beach, the pool, or just running through a sprinkler in the park. Okay. Their prints are adorable. Noah has this gingham print that I love. I think I told you the story that like, Noah's friend was wearing this suit and Noah saw it because Noah has such an eye for, like, style. It's crazy. And he was like, I want that. And I was like, no problem. So I like asked the mom where she got it and she actually told me about Minnow. And since then, we are hooked. Everything there feels elevated without trying too hard. And I just love that their suits are designed to last. They're fully lined, they have UPF 50 plus protection, and they're made so kids can actually move around and play with them without worrying about constant adjustments. Again, they have the sweetest styles for babies, kids, and even matching family, he says, that we love for photo shoots. Their best selling products are the girls Rash Guard One Piece and the boys Borties. And they have unisexual Rash Guard shirts inspired by the French Caribbean. Minnow presents its spring collection. A complete family vacation wardrobe designed to be worn an island from arrival to departure, anchored by their largest women's assortment yet and refined styles for kids. The collection is captured in Saint Barts and designed to be worn all day, every day. Shop Minow Spring 2026 collection at shop minow.com and enter code meetmanow15 at checkout to receive 15 off your first order that's. That's Shop Minow.com code is meetminnow. 15 for 15 off. Meet me now. If you're anything like me, you get very overwhelmed about supplements. Like, almost to the point of, like, when I'm not gonna take anything because everybody wants me to take everything. However, when I'm pregnant, when I'm trying to get pregnant, when I'm postpartum, there's one thing that's like a constant, and that's ritual. Okay? Ritual is my go to when it comes to supporting a pregnancy. Again, from prenatal to during your pregnancy, which is a prenatal still to postnatal to their essential vitamin. I just trust ritual. And I remember when it first came out, I was like, this is sick. Like, everything is traceable. And I love that about it. And it's formulated to support things that women need. It's, like, made by women. It's made for women. And without all those extra fillers that a lot of multivitamins include. Also, really love that it's delayed release, which means it's gentler on your stomach. And it has this subtle minty essence that makes it super easy to take more than the other vitamins than typical vitamins because it has this, like, minty tab in there. So I just love it. I recommend it. If you're asking Amanda, what prenatal did you take? It is ritual. Their mom found it. Third party tested all of it. So when it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency. Mom founded Ritual puts in the work and shows you the proof. Save 25% off your first month at ritual.com/not skinny. That's ritual.com not skinny for 25 off your first month. I saw somewhere somebody like this girl, she's really hot. She posted like, I have something sweet after every meal. Like, that's just me. And obviously the candy I would call it, that she was eating in that story was an unreal bar. And I was like, that's Monk. That's my girl. First of all, if you don't have a sweet tooth and you're not eating something sweet after every meal, I don't know, like, I can't be left with, like, a chicken taste in my mouth. I need chocolate taste in my mouth to end every meal. So unreal is unreal. Okay? Unreal makes me feel good about eating candy because it's better for you candy. It's way less sugar. It's simple ingredients. No artificial anything. Okay? They're dark chocolate, coconut Bar is a fave of mine. Put it in the fridge, by the way. Yum, yum, yum. They also have dark chocolate peanut butter cups and their dark chocolate caramel peanut nougat bars, which is like a Snickers. Better for you. Okay, you guys, Better for you. Better ingredients, less sugar. It's a no brainer. Okay? This is going to be a nostalgic moment for you. Every time you take a bite, it's going to bring you back. Okay. And it's going to make you feel good about having a sweet tooth. Treat yourself, okay? Treat yourself with unreal. It's going to feel unreal that, you know, candy that is this good? Is this good? You know what I mean? You can find unreal products anywhere. Cravings hit, including at Whole Foods, Target, Costco and other grocery stores. As a special offer for my listeners, you go to unrealsnacks.com not skinny. And you can get $2 off a bag of Unreal. Yep. $2 off a bag of Unreal. Unreal snacks.com not skinny. Terms and conditions apply. And we're back. Okay. No social media, really, when you were doing Desperate Housewives, but like in if I imagined, in today's world, if someone played the role that you played, it would have a lot of women coming.

[B]

Well, someone else did play the role that I played.

[A]

You.

[B]

No, they, they had cast that role with another actor.

[A]

What?

[B]

Before I booked the role on Desperate Housewives, I was a re. I was a recast.

[A]

Wait, who was the guy before.

[B]

You remember his name?

[A]

Oh, you don't remember his name?

[B]

That's kind of like. I. I'm sorry, I don't remember his name. Apparently there wasn't great chemistry between him and Eva.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they decided to recast and then you.

[A]

And then you got on the show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, I feel like women. Did you. Was it life imitating art? Were like older women trying to hit on you because of the show?

[B]

Well, when I first got into the business, a lot of older women would try to hit on.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And yeah. So I guess it was left imitating art a bit.

[A]

Did you get down with that?

[B]

Did I partake in that?

[A]

But did you partake? You only dated your age.

[B]

Well, you know, a lot of flirting at, like, events and stuff like that. I mean, look, when you're like, like the new hot thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everybody's trying to get a piece of you.

[A]

Everyone's. Yeah.

[B]

So you got to be relatively discerning.

[A]

And then you get John Tucker Mazdai. Does your head your Your head is kind of big at that point, right?

[B]

I thought it was pretty, it was probably pretty big. Yeah, Yeah. I, I mean I, I always believe that I've been a really kind of the same guy throughout my entire time in the industry, but I have had incidences where I felt as though I was being diminished or disrespected or condescended to in some way, shape or form, and my reaction outweighed the offense, you know what I mean?

[A]

Cause you were saying you were a jerk. Like.

[B]

Yeah, I would just kind of like go a little too big, you know,

[A]

because I need to pick through the

[B]

things that I had dealt with in my childhood, you know, not to make excuses for myself. But I mean, yeah, I would like

[A]

what, you would like start. You would get violent? Like, what were you doing?

[B]

I've like threatened people before. I've like threatened directors before.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know. Yes.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

I just like, I have like lost it.

[A]

Would you today, if you saw them be like. Yes, yes.

[B]

I was looking forward to the opportunity to running into a lot of these people and, and making amends and apologizing and I have, yeah, to many people actually, you know, which is, you know, really lighten the burden, you know, because I, I do, I'm a little embarrassed by some of my, you know.

[A]

But you. Do you chalk it up to like you were young.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were a little hot headed, you were taking out some like aggressions that you had growing up.

[B]

I was, I was, it was, it was from like, it was like trauma, you know? Yeah, it was like I was like expressing trauma. I was like, I had like a wounded little boy inside of me who was like overreacting to everything thing.

[A]

Did you. Cuz you're into the wellness and the health, but are you therapy? Like, how did you deal with that?

[B]

Sort of done a lot of therapy. Yeah, a lot of therapy. Lot of out of network therapy. So it cost me a small fortune because the good therapist, they're not a network.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. You cannot find them in network. Are you still doing that? Is that something that's important to keep

[B]

up with at the moment?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not, not to say I won't be, you know, in the future. Therapy's great.

[A]

What is your like ideal situation? You have your brand now, your skincare brand. Are you still sending auditions? Like, is there like.

[B]

I'm still auditioning and I think giving some of the best auditions of my career.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You're doing it, but I haven't, I haven't booked anything super substantial as of right now, I got a few smaller movies coming out. I mean, I'd love to get back on a hit television series, something that ultimately could be a little bit more critically acclaimed. I'd love to win a Golden Globe or an Emmy one of these days.

[A]

Put it out there, babe.

[B]

I'm not, you know, necessarily saying I want to win an Oscar, but, you know, a Golden Globe or an Emmy would make me very, very proud. And I, you know, I'd love to build a successful brand and build out my profile and health, wellness and beauty. I don't think there's another straight guy in the industry pushing skincare.

[A]

Wait, there's not, right?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Here's something funny.

[B]

Laying all by myself.

[A]

So I posted when you. Did your girlfriend tell you that she likes me? Yeah, like, loves me? I don't know what to say. No. So when I. Helen. It's pronounced okay, because I was like Helene, but Helen. Okay. So I posted when you came out with the skinny gear brand, I was like, new skincare brand. Gender. Gender neutral. Love it. And she DM'd me, which was. She was so sweet. She was like, oh, my God, I almost crashed my car, like, when I saw you posted it. And she's. She's so sweet. She's so beautiful. She's not a. She's not in the. In the biz.

[B]

No, she's not.

[A]

Okay. What did she say about me?

[B]

She just said she loves your content. She thinks you're really funny, really down to earth, that you give great interviews. She loves your whole journey and how you built your career. And obviously I've looked into you as well, and I'm very impressed by what you built.

[A]

Thank you. Well, I'm so happy that that happened because that made me even more excited about the interview. And then I started following her on, like, tick tock. And by the way, if you want to see Jesse content, like, do you know what she's doing when she's filming you?

[B]

She's literally using me on her TikTok so that she can get to 10, 000 followers so she can start monetizing

[A]

Queen. I'm obsessed that you guys are. No, I love it. I. There's nothing I love more than, like, people being, like, real and, like, saying it how it is. You know what I mean? Because we're all feeling it. We all live this life. We're all trying.

[B]

That's me.

[A]

But she. She even posted. She's like, he's. I'm. I think one of them was Like, I'm pretty sure I have the most gorgeous boyfriend in the world. She really loves you.

[B]

I know. I know.

[A]

How long have you been together?

[B]

Two and a half years.

[A]

Is. Is going good.

[B]

It's going really good. Yeah.

[A]

And I saw you say in an interview somewhere that, like, someone was like, you're dating a normie. You remember that interview? Someone's like, you're dating a normie.

[B]

And you were like, I've mostly dated normies. They didn't stay normies, you know, during the course of our relationships. But I think most of the women that I've. I certainly haven't dated for my career.

[A]

Like, you haven't dated.

[B]

I haven't dated for my career at all.

[A]

Have you had opportunities?

[B]

Only many. Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I've only dated many, many, many that were.

[A]

Wait. Many. That people were like, no, this would be a good idea. Yeah.

[B]

They weren't, like, set up up, but, you know, various different people that I've worked with in the past, and then there was interest there, and then there was kind of, like, some talk of.

[A]

But you seem like you're so business savvy. Why wouldn't you be into that?

[B]

Too real.

[A]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

I may be business savvy, but you

[A]

weren't like, I'm not.

[B]

I'm not built like that. Yeah.

[A]

Little PR. Relish.

[B]

Well, I have boundaries.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I. I wouldn't do anything,

[A]

but people do it.

[B]

I wouldn't do anything to be on a new hot show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Sell my brand for, you know, $200 million. I wouldn't do anything.

[A]

Anything. Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, I. I have limits.

[A]

So you dated mostly normies.

[B]

Yeah. And also now I've been very lucky in love. I've had a lot of incredible women love me and support me in my life, but this one's the best one.

[A]

Really? Are you a good boyfriend? I am, yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because you called yourself, like, a head case on this interview that I saw.

[B]

Well, you're like, I can be.

[A]

You're like, can be. So she. Are you a lot to handle?

[B]

I can handle a lot. And I'm a leader, and I'm a man, and I take care of the women in my life, but I have my insecurities, you know? And who do you vent to?

[A]

I mean, you're an actor. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Other than the person closest to you.

[A]

And she.

[B]

She.

[A]

She can, like, take that on.

[B]

She gets it. She takes it on. But there are moments where she's like, hey, listen, you know, shut up. Yeah. I literally can't Hear about this anymore. What are you in like fifth grade?

[A]

And I'm like a man spiral. You're like in a man.

[B]

Yeah, a little man spiral. Exactly.

[A]

But okay, so when, when you were on John Tucker My Style, you were there with Britney Snow, Ashanti, else was there, Sophia, Ariel Cabell. Wait, so you didn't hook up with any of them?

[B]

No.

[A]

Really? And you were single at the time?

[B]

I was, yeah. I mean, Sophia Bush and I. I went on a couple like lunches during the shoot. Yeah, but it wasn't, that wasn't a match.

[A]

Did you have a crush on anyone when you were like at that time?

[B]

Not really.

[A]

Not really.

[B]

I've kind of, I've kind of always been about the work. I. I know that sounds crazy, but I haven't really hooked up with a lot of my co stars. I know, I know you want that, you want that content.

[A]

By the way, I don't. By the way, that's not my brand. No, but I'm just interesting because like you were during that time, you were like in this peak of your life, you're going out, you're getting the things like. Yeah, it would sound like you would be not a fudge boy, but like a little bit. Yeah. Having fun?

[B]

Well, I'm not saying I, I wasn't just not at certain periods, but I

[A]

mean, not in the industry maybe.

[B]

Really all about the work. Almost like I almost tried too hard, you know, I was a little like neurotic on set.

[A]

Really.

[B]

I would drive like directors crazy being like, can I have another take? You know, like, by the way, I

[A]

just heard this about an actor. It's like reminding me of this like tea that I heard. Okay, he's like going in your footsteps in that way. But it's interesting because this actor that I heard it about is kind of new. You guys won't guess, so it doesn't matter. And I'm like. And because I want to get in your head about it is like when you're kind of new at this, like, where does the chutzpah come from to say I'm gonna talk back to this director. Like, I don't give a.

[B]

Like the hoods. The hoods becomes pretty quick when, when you're, you know, the lead of like a $30 million.

[A]

I get it, I get it.

[B]

You get, get treated different, you know,

[A]

I mean that's when you're talent that,

[B]

that's, that's for sure.

[A]

So I got it.

[B]

But I. It really came, it really didn't come from like a place of Arrogance. It came from a place of perfectionism.

[A]

Like, I want to get this right.

[B]

Perfectionism is basically just like insecurity that manifests itself as trying to control everything sort of around you so that you can be what you perceive to be the most perfect version of yourself.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Yeah. And it drives people crazy. Yeah, it drives people crazy because you sort of, it's. You suck all the air out of the room and make kind of the whole situation. You know, there's 30 cast members direct. You know, there's, there's. And you're like, I need to do it again. There's a director. And it's like all about what you need to do in this moment so that you can be your best and so you can be perfect. And you know, you really have. You have to temper that as an actor because, I mean, it's such a collaborative art, right. And as the lead actor in a television series or in a movie, it's almost your responsibility to make sure that everyone's having a good experience. It's not really the director, it's not really the producer. It's not really the.

[A]

It's the call she guy that whatever you guys say, the number one on the call sheet.

[B]

Number one on the call sheet, it kind of all trickles down.

[A]

So you feel like you hadn't done that in what. In the.

[B]

At times I think I failed.

[A]

And you wish that you.

[B]

Yeah, but I. But I've learned from it.

[A]

You've learned? Yeah.

[B]

And I think that I'm a better cast, made a better actor, and just an all around better person now. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, growth, man, growth. That's what it's all about, the growth. Yeah. So the whole sobriety thing, which you came out with like back then, right? Like 2008. Well, when did you speak about it for the first time?

[B]

Geez. I mean, I guess the first time that I went to. To rehab, you know.

[A]

Oh, it was like in like 2000, I think.

[B]

I don't know when was seven. Okay, 2000.

[A]

I'm like pretending like I didn't.

[B]

Thank you. No, I don't. Look, I've. I've had my struggles. I've had my struggles with drugs and alcohol, definitely. I mean, I just like a lot of pressure, a lot of scrutiny. Wanted to kind of escape all that. But then at a certain point, it becomes really not about the emotional underpinning of addiction. It's just addiction, you know, like if alcohol's around or drugs are around, you have like this. It pulls you.

[A]

Did you Know that you had that kind of person, like, you know, what college.

[B]

I kind of was hopeful that it had skipped a generation. No, I mean, I touched on the fact that it sort of runs in my family. Both my grandfathers were raging alcoholics. You know, my father, who's sober now. Yep. Who has quite a bit of sobriety.

[A]

And you're in a good, you have a good relationship with him now.

[B]

We have a relationship. I wouldn't say it's great. We have a relationship. You know, so that's. It's a star.

[A]

And what about. What has your journey been since. Since the rehab?

[B]

My. I haven't stayed sober the whole time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I can tell. I can tell you that. But I am now and I'm in a great place now, and I think that's what, that's what matters most. But I definitely slipped up quite a bit, you know, in the late 2010s.

[A]

Do you feel like you're the. You're, you know about yourself, that you can't dabble, that you need to either be like, like sober or not?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, because. Because it's, it's a progressive disease and you may be able to go out once, twice, three times. Oh, I only had one drink.

[A]

Only.

[B]

I only had two drinks. Oh, I, I went home after that. Or I. But then it's like the fifth time. It gets you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, your inhibitions are lower. Just enough that then maybe, you know,

[A]

you don't go home or you do some drags.

[B]

Maybe, maybe, maybe you go home at, you know, 10 o' clock in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I know one thing. Those moments are so, they're, they're just so. You have so much shame, you know, if you're, if you're battling addiction for basically all of your adult life, when you mess up, you know, and have one of those, Have a bender or a really, really late night, you feel like such crap about yourself. It's just like, it's never worth it.

[A]

It's never worth it. So what is like a vice now? Since you're healthy? You're this, you're that. Give me some bad social media probably. Really? Yeah, like too much.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I'll like, totally doom scroll. Like, at the end of the day, Helen and I will be in bed together and like, you know, I'll be on Tick Tock or I'll be on X reading some, like, fake news. I mean, you don't know what's real on X. You know, with AI and, like, I

[A]

know the AI movie posters get me. And I'm like, how to lose a guy in 10 days, too.

[B]

I can't wait. You know, like, oh, it's not happening. Damn you, AI.

[A]

The movie posters. I. Would you be down for, like, a romantic comedy? Like, I feel like. Like,

[B]

I think I really thrive in that genre. I mean, I actually have a small romantic comedy coming out on Roku, like, in the late spring, early summer.

[A]

Oh, amazing.

[B]

But. And obviously I've done a fair share of work on the Hallmark Channel.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I've had. Had a lot of success over there. I mean, like, some of my movies are like some of the bigger movies that they've made, you know, so, yeah, I think I'm good in that genre.

[A]

You are good in that genre. And what about music? Because that was your first dream.

[B]

I still play guitar and sing and. And write a little music. I mean, it's sort of like on the. On the back burner right now. You know, it's. It's. It's a hobby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's never. Never something. I did write some original music for a Hallmark series that I was on called Chesapeake Shores, where I played a country singer and licensed those songs to the show and. And still make publishing royalties on those songs to this day. So I have made some money, you know, from some music that I've made, but I'm definitely very passionate about music. There's nothing.

[A]

What about if you had to choose a reboot? John Tucker Must Die or Desperate Housewives, but obviously you come back.

[B]

Look, I think a John Tucker Must Die sequel would be really fun. Yeah, they wrote.

[A]

Right now.

[B]

They developed a script. They developed a script. Yeah. And actually Arielle Kebbel was sort of, you know, running point on that, but I think it kind of died on the vine a little bit. It sort of fizzled out a little bit.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So I. I don't necessarily really seeing that. See that happening, but it's not a really a make or break situation, you know.

[A]

Have you kept in touch with anyone from.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I talked to Arielle and I'm going to be seeing Penn Badgley shortly. I know he's been on your show. I'm gonna be on his show.

[A]

Oh, cool. Amazing competition. No, no, I'm kidding. He was hilarious. Here we talked about astrology and.

[B]

No, I love him. He was like. He, like, lost his mind.

[A]

No, he lost.

[B]

Yeah, he kind of went insane.

[A]

You should bring it up in the

[B]

interview and be like, oh, I plan on.

[A]

I'm really into astrology.

[B]

I got my terror, and actually, I kind of am.

[A]

You are? Wait, what are you?

[B]

I mean, I'm a sag.

[A]

Yeah, Wait, that's a good one.

[B]

No, I. I love. I love my sign, but, I mean, I'm. I'm into it to the point that I recently got my chart redone. Sometimes I do some sessions with an astrologist.

[A]

Oh, my God, you need to bring this up. He's gonna rip you to dry.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Probably.

[A]

I'm obsessed.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Okay, finish this sentence.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The weirdest thing about being a heartthrob is.

[B]

The weirdest thing about being a heartthrob is people believing that that's all you are.

[A]

Oh, if John Tucker Must Die came

[B]

out Today, I'd have 30 million followers and I'd be rich as hell.

[A]

No, I love that the Internet thinks,

[B]

but really, the Internet thinks. I don't really necessarily know what the Internet thinks, but. But in my insecure mind, the Internet thinks that I am shallow and I am very deep.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it came across today, my love.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So, biggest misconception about you.

[B]

Biggest misconception about me.

[A]

That you're 27.

[B]

Exactly. I mean, I. Maybe that I'm. I'm. I'm not as down to earth as I am.

[A]

I mean, you are.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

Thanks, you guys. Pick up neutral. Where can they get it?

[B]

Well, right now we're direct to consumer, so it's on the website. So neutral, spelled phonetically, N, U, T R, L, skin dot com. We have an amazing deal going on right now. You can buy any product and you get a free product, so you can buy the two cheapest products. You can buy the cleanser and the moisturizer. You can get both the serums for free.

[A]

I'm so excited.

[B]

And the serums are insane.

[A]

Pain.

[B]

They're packed with peptides. They're really, really effective. They're really good.

[A]

Peptides are really good for. Peptides are all the rage.

[B]

They're hot right now.

[A]

They're all the rage. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

This was so fun. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual Smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.