Jill Kargman: Inside the Wild World of Upper East Side Moms

Summary

Not Skinny But Not Fat
Host: Amanda Hirsch (Dear Media)
Date: May 19, 2026
Guest: Jill Kargman
Episode: "Jill Kargman: Inside the Wild World of Upper East Side Moms"

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Episode Overview

Amanda Hirsch welcomes Jill Kargman, acclaimed author, actress, and creator of the cult hit Odd Mom Out, for an honest, hilarious, and wonderfully irreverent conversation about motherhood, influencer culture, Manhattan’s Upper East Side, and Jill’s new satirical film, Influence. The duo dive deep into the real quirks and pressures of New York parenting, the evolution of “mom culture,” why influencer life is ripe for mockery, and the hidden heart behind the "flashy" social media set. Jill’s signature dark humor and no-bullshit wisdom make this a particularly engaging episode.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Amanda on Podcasting & Hustle (00:32–05:35)

• Amanda reflects on her relentless work ethic: "I don't got seasons, time off, anything like that. If anything, I have bonus episodes." (00:53)
• Shares advice for aspiring podcasters: have a real point of view, be niche, and bring something new.
• Talks candidly about her relationship with working out, comparing herself to Hilary Duff and noting how even "body positivity" can have weird qualifiers:
  • "Just be like, she looks fucking hot. She looks fucking amazing. Like, no ifs, ands, buts, qualifiers. Mom, you know?" (04:10)

Welcome, Jill Kargman – Upper East Side Unfiltered (07:27–09:31)

• Jill banters about her signature look and sun aversion, jokingly admitting, "The only SPF that works is a building."
• Reveals personal health battles: "I've had melanoma twice. My doctor's like, 'Don't go outside.'"
• Humor on aging:
  • “Black don’t crack, Asian don’t raisin. Jews get facelifts.” (09:11)

Odd Mom Out & The Upper East Side Mom World (09:35–12:55)

• Jill discusses inspiration for her book Momzillas and Odd Mom Out: motherhood’s unglamorous realities, feeling like the "Odd Mom Out" among Upper East Side elites:
  • “I was 28...wearing like Urban Outfitters, threw up on me. And other moms were in head-to-toe Valentino...” (13:04)
  • Explains the show was ahead of its time: predicted billionaires in space, a global pandemic, and more.
• On writing about moms:
  • “They will tell you moms aren’t sexy...That’s a niche. And I said, it’s a pretty big fucking niche.” (11:19)

Career Detours & Jill’s Hindsight (15:42–27:21)

• Jill narrates her early career: working at magazines, MTV (as a "permalancer"), and her detour into advertising.
• Reveals how supposed career setbacks (writing maxi pad commercials at Ogilvy) led serendipitously to meeting the producer of Odd Mom Out:
  • "Sometimes four steps backwards, there's a catapult." (26:41)

Acting, Making "Influence," and Satirizing Influencer Culture (27:49–38:08)

• Jill on playing herself vs. fictional roles:
  • “Andy wanted a version of me…Larry David on the Upper East Side, basically, in mom world.”
• Influence origin story: originally sold as a TV show, became a feature film after network turmoil.
• Satirizing influencer moms:
  • “The whole thing felt, you know, very fabulous. Like there was a fabulosity being pushed everywhere and the patina of, you know, filters and wealth…” (36:24)
• On the real women beneath the flash:
  • "I was just thinking…this is not how I was raised, these aren’t my values…and guess what? They were great mothers. They're nice." (45:59)

Social Media & Parenting Realities (46:43–53:12)

• Jill draws distinction between Instagram performance and private realities:
  • “You see the divergence between, you know, all the cute little things she's posting, and then she's lying alone in her bed, like, miserable, looking at her old ring.” (47:03)
• Parenting in NY vs. suburbs:
  • Suburban kids "were way faster" (on adult behaviors) because they're bored, city kids always have something to do. (49:23)
• Jill shares candid stories—Upper East Side moms with "anorexia coaches," insane dog walker screening processes, and pressures of parenting in affluence.

Money, Privilege, and Perspective (55:12–57:32)

• The culture of comparing vacation destinations among wealthy schoolkids:
  • “That was really the genesis of Influence because Ivy said, ‘Where are we going on vacation?’...everyone at school's asking...” (56:50)
• Using a visit to the Anne Frank House to give kids perspective: “I’m convinced that’s why we had an easy pandemic with three teenagers.”

Life in Manhattan, Motherhood Style (58:06–64:07)

• Jill’s “suburban panic disorder”: doesn’t drive, prefers the city, and shares her hilarious journey to getting a license at 37 via “heroin-style intervention.”
• NYC doormen and elevator men banter—small talk struggles and city living idiosyncrasies.

Rapid-Fire: Influencer Trends – Yay or Nay? (64:56–66:25)

• Amanda quizzes Jill on classic influencer content:
  • "Get ready with me" videos: Nay.
  • ASMR and nail-tapping: soft spot for JoCB on YouTube, but generally "nay" on Instagram.
• Quote: “I would like, I feel like if you don’t mind that I’m ass white. I know who I am. I’m not trying to be Britney Spears.” (30:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes four steps backwards, there’s a catapult.” – Jill Kargman (26:41)
• “Black don’t crack, Asian don’t raisin. Jews get facelifts.” – Jill Kargman (09:11)
• “I have suburban panic disorder. I created it and diagnosed myself with it.” – Jill Kargman (48:49)
• “There’s more to these people sometimes… ultimately, they’re good people.” – Jill Kargman (46:52)
• “I just want to say, no. I just was, like, playing around.” – Jill, mocking actor seriousness (31:47)
• On career detours:
  • “If you feel like down on your career by taking this total detour…sometimes backwards, there’s a catapult.” (26:41)
• Amanda on body positivity:
  • “Just be like, she looks fucking hot. She looks fucking amazing. Like, no ifs, ands, buts, qualifiers. Mom, you know?” (04:10)
• On influencer culture:
  • “The patina of, you know, filters and wealth and all these things that voyeuristically people want…” (36:24)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:53 – Amanda on podcast consistency & podcasting advice
• 09:11 – Jill on age, race, and facelifts (“Black don’t crack…”)
• 13:04 – Jill recounts feeling like "odd mom out" at ballet class
• 26:41 – “Sometimes four steps backwards, there’s a catapult.”
• 36:24 – Jill on “fabulosity” and influencer culture
• 45:59 – On meeting surprisingly nice, flashy moms
• 47:03 – Social media vs. real life: showing the divergence
• 49:23 – On "city kids" vs. "suburban kids" speeds
• 56:50 – The school vacation arms race—genesis of Influence
• 62:19 – Jill’s chill approach to parenting and sleep training
• 64:56 – Rapid-fire round on influencer trends

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Final Notes

• Jill Kargman’s new movie Influence is out now in theaters and available on demand July 10 (66:34).
• Jill’s unique journey—emphasizing authenticity, resilience, and the idea that nontraditional paths can lead to exciting places—permeates the episode.
• The conversation is thick with New York-centric humor, biting satire, and an underlying message: don’t judge by appearances, and “just do your own thing.”

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For more Jill: Watch Odd Mom Out (now on Peacock), and check out Influence in theaters or at influencedmovie.com.

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hi, everybody. Happy Tuesday. Welcome to a new episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat.

[B]

I'm your girl, Amanda.

[A]

You know, it's funny that I don't have a week off a year in my pod life. Like, when people are like, oh, like, how many do you record in a week? Or, like, do you. It's like, I've been going 52 weeks a year for the past 2018. Oh, my God, six years. Oh, my God, no.

[B]

Eight years.

[A]

Would I have my pod for eight? That makes zero sense. Okay. I started my pod in 2019. Yeah. So that's seven years. But I would say, like, really locked in, like, six years, probably. Yeah. I don't got seasons, time off, anything like that. If anything, I have bonus episodes. So just, you know, your girl is working hard, and she's working consistent, and she's working consistent, and that's what I would say. Like, whenever I get asked, like, should I start a pod? Like, what do you think about people starting pods? I would say three things.

[B]

I made that up.

[A]

It might be two things. One, have something to talk about. Have something to say. Have something unique. Have a unique point of view. I feel like at this point in the game, you got to have a niche. Like, you know, since I'm One of the OGs, like, at this point, like, we can't have another interview show. You know, at this point, you can't have another pop culture show. Like, I feel like it really needs to be niche at this point, or it just needs to be better, you know, or it just needs to be really good. And your point of view is so unique and so different, and there is, like, a place for it and a yearning for it in the landscape. I do love that people are still coming out with pods. I feel like even when I came out with my pod in 2019, I was like, I'm not the first, you know? And now it's like, people are coming out with Pods every day. 2026, like, new pod, who this? And I love it. I love it. The medium is growing. It's like, if the medium's doing well, I'm doing well. You know what I mean? That's how I feel. It's part of how I feel, you know, things are layered. Things are in black and white. I just actually worked out, which is why the endorphins. I just worked out so, so hard.

[B]

Like, I was like, are we doing

[A]

all the most annoying exercises in today's workout? You know, like, all the things you hate, like the lunges, the split squats, the pull ups, the push ups. Like, can we spread these out? But I did only work out one time a week, which is again, I want to make sure people know this. Like, when they're like, oh, you're, you know, you're doing so well and you look so great and, you know, you're working out and shows. It's like, I'm working out, but like, at my, like, most intense time, when I was, like, nutritionist working out, it was like three times a week, twice Pilates, one workout. And now I'm like, really kind of the Pilates haven't done a few weeks in the workout. I maybe get one or two, but, like, have to get one. So I'm not like, I'm doing okay. I'm not. I'm not like, before. I never worked out a day in my life. My trainer just told me today, like, you remember, you couldn't do a lunge anyway, I still hate lunges, but just so you know. But. But that brings me to Hillary Duff. Hillary Duff looks amazing. She looks insane. Her body is ripped. Like, you could tell she works out. You could tell she has been working for this bod because I remember we were pregnant at the same time, and it made me feel nice that she looked like a normal pregnant person. You know what I mean? It was like, she's one of us, you know? So I know that girl worked hard. She had four babies. However, this new, like, Hillary Duff has a real body, vibes. Like, I feel like that's what the Internet is giving. It's like, she's not like you're doing, like, Kate Winslet. You know what I mean? That's what it feels like to me. I know that she's getting all the praise in the world. She's so hot.

[C]

She's so gorgeous.

[A]

Like, she has a spotlight. It's amazing. But I do feel like there is a connotation of, like, real body, like a mama for, like, she's the. She's fucking ripped right now. Like, she's teeny tiny.

[B]

Like, this is not the example or

[A]

the flex that you think it is. You know, just be like, she looks fucking hot. She looks fucking amazing. Like, no ifs, ands, buts, qualifiers. Mom, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I, I, I generally don't know. I just saw, I saw something about that that was like, finally, like, represent. I'm like, what? She's literally tiny and ripped, like, beyond. Like, send the trainers, send the training sessions. But anyway, let's get into it. Let's get into it, guys. Unless I have something else to say. Oh, aside from the fact that, you know, I might be on a high right now, aside from the end, is because this week is almost over. I'm recording this on Friday, and I've had the most insane week of my life that I complained about last week, but that I thought would be less insane than I was predicting. And then it was more insane. It was, like, one thing. Like, it was like, literally my days were, like, just scheduled to a T of, like, there was no time in between the things. And this is all happening as my house was being remodeled, which is almost done. I'm so excited. And I'm not teasing you, and I'm not, whatever. I'm just waiting for it to be done so I can fucking share and blast it off. But that was all happening. So, like, all these things are happening and, like, one thing to the next and whatever, while they're, like, people working in my house and things are coming in, things are coming out. But it's great. It's all good stuff. It's podcasts. It's Hulu's Get Real, which I've been hosting a few episodes already. A few episodes.

[B]

So feels really good.

[A]

I think it was like, I, I did my, like, fifth this week, which they haven't all come out yet. I think, like, two or three of mine have come out anyway, so check that out. Check out Hulu Get Real if you haven't yet. And tomorrow, because I'm recording this on Friday, we're doing the Dear Media Live show, which is going to be so fun because I do have a surprise guest that I'm not telling you about. And I'm excited about that. I'm excited. And then I'm going to pop champagne when I'm done with this week. Like, I'm going to. It's going to feel so good. It's going to feel so good to be done with this week and then have another week, but then, like, a more normal week. Like, things are just going to be more balanced back to, like, the normal fluctuation of things and the ins and outs and the scheduling. Anyway, let's get to today's podcast. I've been a fan of this woman for years. I watched her show Autumn out after I had Noah. I found it so relatable and so fucking funny. And I love following her on Instagram. I love seeing what she's up to. She's now out with a new movie called Influence. Kind of poking fun at that influencer culture, which I love. Upper east side influencer culture. To make it more specific. It's Jill Cargman. She's hilarious, she's brutal, and she. She cracks me up. I just love her vibe. The movie was so funny. An hour and a half of just, like, laughing and. And by the way, like, I talked about this. This movie Influence, which is, like, making fun of influence culture. So there are some things that are so out there, but there are so many more things that are, like, not exaggerated. And you realize, like, how crazy the world that we live in is.

[B]

But you also realize, like, as fucking

[A]

cringy as some of this influencing can be, like, the people beneath that, like, might not be the worst people, like, you may think that they are. Anyway, she's a fellow New Yorker. She is dark, she is dry, she is funny, and she's here.

[D]

Jill Hargman, testing syphilis. Syphilis.

[B]

First of all, you look amazing.

[D]

You're so nice. My husband had a 6am flight, so I've been up hella early and more

[B]

like, I feel like, this is so specific, but I've seen, like. I feel like you look tan.

[D]

Really? For me?

[B]

For you.

[D]

Oh, all right. Maybe you got some sun walking from the train, but I'll. I'll take it.

[B]

Are you, like. Are you an spf?

[D]

No, I don't wear SPF because I don't think it works on me. I think the only SPF that works is a building. Like, I truly believe that.

[B]

Wait, you've tried spf?

[D]

Yes, and I still get burnt. And the only thing my doc. I've had melanoma twice. My doctor's like, don't go outside. Just do not be outside between 10 and 2.

[B]

For real?

[D]

Yeah, I was not outside.

[B]

Wait, you've tried, like, walking to the train. You'll get burned. Or if you're, like, outside on the beach.

[D]

I don't go to beaches. No walking across the street. I'll get, like, color.

[B]

Have you tried every SPF like, recommended was? Yeah, it might, like, crazy.

[D]

Rate the situation, but I am a lobster instantly.

[B]

You've gotten melanoma twice? Yes.

[D]

Stage three. I had all the lymph nodes removed from my vag.

[B]

I have a sun from The V. We.

[D]

It wasn't sun. It's like my genes.

[B]

It's just genetic, so that's unrelated to getting burned.

[D]

It's nothing to do with sun? No.

[B]

Cuz that's fascinating.

[D]

I mean, I have bad genes, so there are, like, Australian lifeguards who are in the sun all day, and then I'm never in the sun. And I got melanoma, like, in my cooter. It's not like I'm a nude sunbather.

[B]

I have bad jeans too. Yeah, well, it's a Jewish gene. It's good to find out in the movie. Influence is so funny.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

You said black don't crack.

[D]

Asian don't raisin. Jews get facelifts. I'm shopping for a neck job now, but now everyone's saying, don't bother. Like, just do it all at once. Like, because my facialist says my neck is seven years older than my face. And it really is. And this is why I love her. She likes.

[B]

She says it the way it is.

[D]

She tells it the way.

[B]

But that's okay, because I feel like all your work. By the way, huge fan of Odd Mom.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

Because I watched it after I gave birth to my first son, and it was just.

[A]

Just hashtag relatable to me.

[D]

I'm so glad.

[B]

And I live on the Upper east side. I'm not that kind of Upper Easter.

[D]

No, me neither.

[A]

But I loved it so much. Like, hashtag, bring it back, you know,

[D]

I know everyone's kind of scattered to the wind, so it probably won't come back, but it lives on, on Peacock.

[B]

How many seasons were there and why did it end when it did?

[D]

Because it was too expensive to me. Bravo. Bravo makes reality shows. And this wasn't their business model. It was kind of a risk. Like, Andy Cohen believed in it, and they own the rights to my book, Mom Zillow. So we. They just went for it. But it's really not their business model. And they had to pay, you know, for set design and the unions, and they don't do that in the real stuff.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So it just costs so much more money.

[B]

So that all happened because they love Andy, loved the book. Momzilla's.

[D]

Well, no, they already own the book. And I was meeting with Andy about, like, talking about reality stuff, and I said, I'm never gonna be in a reality show ever.

[B]

He wanted you to just pick.

[D]

Well, we were, like, meeting, but I said, why don't you just let me adapt the book that you guys already own? NBCUniversal bought it and, you know, and he put in Lara Spots, his head of development. We developed it together, and then that's how that got made. But it was a huge pivot for them. They were just trying it out. But it had a halo effect with the advertising for all of the reality stuff. But it's just so much more expensive to produce. I mean, we're building sets and getting permits and locations and all that. So you. That's not really their business model.

[B]

So you've always kind of been obsessed with, like, the mom world of the Upper east side.

[D]

I would say, like, since I became a mom. Yeah. And I. When I first went to my agent about writing that book, she's. She was like, why? Why do you want to write about moms? The moms aren't sexy. Moms are. That's a niche. And I said, it's a pretty big fucking niche. What do you mean, niche? And I went behind her back and sent 60 pages to my editor, and she just, like, called my agent with the deal, and she was shocked.

[B]

And then cut that agent in.

[D]

No, she was, like, retiring and all that anyway, but just goes to show, don't write for the marketplace because they will tell you it's unsexy.

[B]

And believe in yourself.

[D]

Whatever.

[B]

Believe in yourself.

[D]

Believe the children are our future.

[B]

Wait, so Mom Zilla's.

[D]

I have musical Tourette's, by the way. Sorry?

[A]

Musical Tourette's.

[D]

I will, like, burst into song at any.

[A]

So, Mom Zilla's.

[B]

Was that the first, like, mom base and that you wrote when now you have. You have three kids?

[D]

I have three. They're all grown up. But I wrote that one when I had two little babies.

[B]

When you had two little babies? Yeah.

[D]

I had three kids in four years, but now they're 23. Almost 20 and 18.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Yeah, they're big.

[B]

So.

[A]

And my odd mom out, I looked it up.

[B]

Today was 2015. It came out.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[D]

I know.

[B]

Do you feel like it was, like, ahead of its time?

[D]

Well, we predicted a lot of shit. We predicted a global pandemic. We predicted billionaires going to space. There was none of that yet. And we predicted, like, a bomb cyclone weather event. And I have. People are like, you guys are also the Simpsons.

[B]

Wow. I need to rewatch it.

[D]

But we were canceled before we could predict all the other things. No. Yeah. I, I, I don't know. I guess I've always been a little bit Nostradamusy.

[B]

But what about. What about, like, your experience as, like, a New mom or mom of two. Like, made you really want to write about it.

[D]

So my husband Harry, I was basically at that point, like a stay at home mom. And I had been writing books with a writing partner. And at, at that point, I was just doing articles now and then, but not really working. And I came home, I was on like the Godfather day of my period with like Flag of Japan was my bed sheet, like Horsehead. And I was, you know, emotional and on edge. And I took my older one, Sadie, to a ballet class. And the moms all were friends, you know, like, they all seemed to know each other and I didn't. This is where the odd mom out part came. Because I was 28. I was. We were in a fourth floor walk up. I was wearing like Urban Outfitters, threw up on me. And other moms were in like head to toe Valentino or whatever. And I said, I sat the ballet teacher. Kids were running around. She said, let's all sit down in a circle. And I said, sadie, come sit down Indian style. Okay, now I'm 51. Like this was something we grew up saying, Indian style. I didn't know that that was canceled. And these moms were horrified. And she's like, it's crisscross applesauce. You can't say that. So I started crying in the bathroom. I think it was just like hormones or maybe I was pregnant with Ivy, my second. But I don't remember if it was period or pre. No, I was perioding because I remember my husband's like, you are surfing the crimson tide. Oh, smucker's jelly. And I was like this, said like, we have to sit crisscross applesauce. So that night we went to the Natural History Museum for like the family benefit. And we came upon the diorama of like the Lenape around the campfire. And he goes, look, sweetie, the Indians are sitting crisscross applesauce. And I was sort of laughing, crying, and he's like, no, seriously, I think this is your next world. Because I always told him all the stories. The moms. There was a mom to be in my gyno's office with headphones on her uterus. And I was like, what the fuck are you doing? I didn't say that. I just said, what's this? She said, it's Mozart. It makes the fetus smarter. And I was like, you fucking cunt. So I knew I was in deep shit. And I'm from here, right? Then I heard a little two year old blonde girl with pigtails like, nihau like, speaking Mandarin. And the mom's like, my husband's a Goldman. He says it's the way of the future. And I was like, jesus, I'm never gonna survive this. Like, mom world here.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So I just started sort of taking notes by osmosis, like, seeping everything in. And then I wrote Momzilla's. I, like, vomited it out as catharsis.

[B]

I guess I need to audiobook that chat. Did you audiobook it?

[D]

I don't think so. I think Anna Gasteyer did it.

[B]

Somebody else did it?

[D]

I think so. I only did my essay collections.

[B]

Oh, okay. Interesting.

[D]

Yeah, because I wasn't acting yet. Like, I started acting at 39.

[B]

Wait, so tell me. So writing like you always knew you were gonna write?

[D]

I thought I was gonna write. I wanted. When I was little, I wanted to be a magazine writer and be an editor at a magazine, because magazines were a really big deal. You were in diapers. You don't remember? And I worked at Harper's Bazaar and Interview magazine.

[B]

And so you got the. You got the cool gigs.

[D]

Well, I was like a Xerox whore. I wasn't exactly Miranda Priestly. I was, like, fetching coffees. But then they let me write. And then one thing led to another. I was at MTV for many years and writing. Yeah, I was writing for MTV News docs, like documentaries in a writer's room. But I got paid shit. And I got. It was called. I was called a permalancer. It was a freelancer, but, like, no benefits, so that sucked. And then my husband and I got married and I got pregnant, and I showed up at mtv. I was like, staffed show to show for sort of three to four month chunks. And my boss, who, by the way, was like 10 years older than me with the, you know, vintage class shirt, red Hook Loft messenger bag. And he said, you're pregnant? I said, yeah, clearly. I was, like, really showing. And they never called me again. And then later, I ran into him at a concert, and he's like, I. He's like, we really miss you. And I said, well, you kind of fired me. Like, you never rebooked me. And he goes, well, I just assume you'd be busy with the baby. And I said, what? Would you say that to a guy? Like, what the fuck? And he's like, yeah, my b. Anyway, I hate everybody, but that. Now that doesn't happen.

[B]

That doesn't. Yeah, they. Even if they felt that way, they couldn't.

[D]

My daughter's 23. This was 23 years ago.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. When MTV was making music videos and

[D]

docs, I think that the videos were already over. I think it was a lot of reality shows, but they had MTV News still and they had MTV News docs. So we had a show called who Is. It was like any biography but half hour for the ADD generation. And then we had a trend report called so five minutes Ago. I mean, it was fun. I liked it, but it was not. I knew that it was. I wasn't. It wasn't going to take me to the next place.

[B]

Was your dream to be like a Miranda Priestly?

[D]

I don't know if fashion really as editor in chief, but I liked cultural shit and I loved. I. I feel like I could have done something in the more of the features editorial type thing, but I don't know. My dream changed like 75 times.

[B]

Did you. Did you go to college?

[D]

Yeah, I went to Yale.

[B]

Oh, you went to Yale.

[D]

Yeah. So I was always acting. I was always in place.

[B]

You were doing acting?

[D]

I was doing acting, but I didn't want to be an actress. Like, if somebody said here, you can graduate and be a working actress, I would have done it. But I thought, you have to wait tables. You have to need it in your soul. You have to have it, like, clawing its way out of you. And that was not me. I wanted a job. Yeah, I like to work. I couldn't just wait between, you know, months for an audition or something like, that was never my lifestyle.

[B]

Time of your life of going on auditions?

[D]

No, I knew I wouldn't. It's just, I don't know, I have like a particular look. And like, the prettiest, prettiest girl at Yale was like, hostessing and not getting jobs. And she looked like a model. So I was like, well, I'm fucked. And I'm sure she had to, like, I'm sure, like she had people wanting to bone her. You know what I mean? I wasn't Harvey Weinstein's type.

[B]

You wanted more security?

[D]

I wanted security, yeah.

[B]

I also. I feel like everyone that ends up kind of in the entertainment industry in a way has wanted to act in some way. It's just like, how much are you willing to go for it?

[D]

I. I wasn't right at all.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I just want. It wasn't. It was job security, but also being busy. I like being busy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

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What is up? Thank you so much for sponsoring my podcast.

[A]

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[B]

Okay.

[A]

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[C]

Dinner or really any meal in my house feels so chaotic. Everybody wants something else. Leo is barking, Lenny is screaming, Noah's

[B]

like, can I have a waffle?

[C]

And you're like, no, you cannot have a waffle. For fricking dinner, you need meat. So Butcherbox really has been helpful in making all of that way easier. So if you haven't heard of Butcherbox, it's a subscription service. It delivers high quality meat and seafood straight to your door. Think 100% grass fed beef, organic chicken, humanly raised pork, wild caught seafood. What I love is you can customize your box.

[A]

Don't want pork, dad.

[C]

That don't want seafood. Bada bing, bada bye. What's nice is also that you can, you know, decide what you want. Steaks, chicken, burgers, whatever. It comes frozen and packaged so well for storage. I put everything in my freezer. Steak so ready for my husband to make a good steak. It's just super easy. You keep it stocked, like I said, in your freezer. And then those nights you have a zero plan, but you want a good meal, Butcherbox is there to save you. Butcherbox got your back, okay? They have so many options beyond just basic cuts. Right now they have Breakfast stuff and even quick family friendly options. They're always adding new things, which I really love. So if you've been trying to simplify meals and also listen, grilling season is here. All right. Are you hosting? Well, you're ready to host now with ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein options straight to your door. And as an exclusive offer, new listeners can get their choice between free sirloin chips, ground beef or chicken wings in every box. Faux life plus $20 off when you go to butcherbox.com Knottsfeed that's right, your choice of free sirloin tips, ground beef or chicken wings in every box. Faux Life plus $20 off your first box and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com nutskinny don't forget to use this link so they know I sent you out.

[A]

And we're back.

[B]

So then you graduate.

[D]

Yeah, then I went to magazine, then I was in magazines, then mtv. Then when I had Sadie. Oh, no, when I had Sadie, my first book, the Right Address came out. It's about a one co op on Park Avenue and all the neighbors, all the people in it. And then.

[B]

Is it fiction?

[D]

Fiction? Yeah, novels. Then I did a bunch of novels, including Momzilla's. And then I hit a wall where I was like, I don't want to write novels anymore. I want to talk in my own voice. So I wrote a book called Sometimes I Feel like a Nut. There was a collection of essays, and once I did that, that was the voice of odd mom out. That was how I knew that there was no going back. I didn't. I felt like I would hide behind characters or try to tell a story that wasn't as real. And when you just like shit out stuff that feels like the balsamic reduction of you, you don't want the diluted ever again. And so from that point on, I just, I said, I'm gonna, I just wanna write more essay collections. And my publisher at the time said, no, you're, you know, your novels made more money. And I said, I don't care. I really. This was still like number three on the bestseller, but it's a different list. It was like miscellaneous or something. It's like less money.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And they said, yeah. No. And then I said, well, can't I do, like, what actors say? One for you, one for them kind of thing. Like one for me.

[B]

I'll.

[D]

I'll write a novel for you. Like, I'll shit out a novel and then I'll write my essay collection. They're like, no. Still no.

[B]

We're not giving you one for them. Is that a real thing?

[D]

Yeah. Like, actors will do a big studio Marvel movie, and then like a little indie, gorilla style indie.

[B]

Got you.

[D]

So they said, still no. And I decided, like, if I was gonna be a, I would be a. Without my name on it. So I went to an ad agency to be a copywriter. So it felt like a huge, like, step backwards in my career because I was. I had books and bookstores, and then I was writing literally, like, maxi pad commercials.

[B]

Stop.

[D]

So at Ogilvy. And then. But this is. This is my, like, big 2020 is hindsight thing for any young listeners who feel like down on their career by taking this total detour. That was four steps backwards. Sometimes four steps backwards, there's a catapult. And the catapult was at this ad agency. I met a producer who wound up producing a mom out and who I wouldn't have connected with had I not taken this job, so.

[B]

And did he get the ball rolling? Yeah.

[D]

He said, I really want you to meet Andy Cohen, and my wife loves your books. And so we had hit it off. And he.

[B]

That's crazy.

[D]

He, like, got me OB mom out. Daniel Rosenberg. So that was really wild.

[A]

And, like, men to be.

[D]

I mean, I don't know if I believe in them. You don't look like you would believe in sexual person. But I guess it's just one of those weird life things where you're like,

[A]

I don't know, Revolving Door or the.

[B]

What's it called? That movie with Gwyneth Paltrow, Sliding Doors. I do love that movie. Yeah, it's that it's like, what would have happened if I wouldn't have gone to the ad agency?

[D]

I don't know what would have. I don't think I. There was any other avenue to me acting. That's for sure.

[B]

And then how was there a moment where they considered that you wouldn't play you?

[D]

No, because Andy really wanted it to be, like, originally reality style. He was saying, I want a version of you. I want Larry David on the Upper east side, basically, in mom world. And so that's not like a big acting stretch. You know what I mean? That's. Yeah, that's like, easy. So it was basically me, but when I was 28.

[B]

Was that fun for you to be acting?

[D]

Yes, but again, it wasn't like a big challenge. Yeah, it was me.

[B]

Right.

[D]

This. This movie influence. My new one is totally different from me. So that was a little bit.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But I knew all these people.

[B]

So. So with influence. I mean, Right. It is not you at all.

[D]

But that's also not a stretch.

[B]

But it didn't seem right. So I was going to say, like, in the trailer, I think I was like, oh, my God, it's jarring.

[D]

You know me as a blonde.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's jarring. But I think once the movie starts and you get to know kind of these other layers of this, like, crazy mom influencer, and you're like, oh, she's like a good person, or, like, she cares about people or, you know, like, I kind of forgot who you are in real life. You know what I mean? That's good.

[D]

And I was doing my job, and

[B]

it wasn't giving a stretch. Like, you were. You were Zanielle.

[D]

Well, thank you.

[B]

How was the accent? Getting that long accent?

[D]

I think I just. I mean, 51 years of hearing it somehow every day.

[B]

Wait, hearing in Manhattan?

[D]

Yeah. Like, I just know. Not my family, but just. You just hear it around.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And we had a lot of guys on the crew who were from Long Island. Like, it wasn't. Didn't feel like a big challenge. I'm also kind of good at accents because my mom's French and she speaks four languages. And they would always do accents in the house. Around the house. Yeah. But I don't know. I was all the SNL hair team. Brittany Hartman, who makes all the wigs now, and Corinne Gonzalez Novotny, who did my hair. They're all the SNL girls. They were on hiatus for the summer, so they did that. It was, like, a really major way, but it didn't.

[B]

When you looked in the mirror with the blonde wig for the first time, I started laughing.

[D]

I was like, who the fudge is this? I ran into a friend of 40 years, and she didn't know who I was. Did not know who I was.

[B]

Wait on the street.

[D]

Yes. I went up to her and was like, hi, Tara. And she just stared at me blankly. And I was like, it's Jill. She had no idea. And I was dressed like a.

[B]

And did you have a spray tan?

[D]

Okay, so that's where gauntlets were thrown. Basically, Charles, my makeup artist, who's amazing, said, could you please get a straight tan? We will save a lot of time. And I just basically was like, I'd rather eat my spleen with sriracha sauce. Never happening. I would slide down a slide of razor blades naked and land in a pool of vodka. Like, it is so not happening. Like, you're just going to have to fudgeing crack out the bronzer.

[B]

Wait, why were you against, like.

[D]

Like, because then you're stuck with it on the weekends.

[B]

Like, you don't like the way it looks.

[D]

No, I wanted. It's like makeup and then you wash your face. Yeah, I don't want it staying.

[B]

Have you done it before? No. You would hate the feeling.

[D]

Then. I would, like, I feel like if you don't mind that I'm ass white. I know who I am. I'm not, like, trying to be Britney

[B]

Spears, but I think it's like hearing you think what it's gonna feel like. And then if you got it done, me knowing what it feels like, I'm just like, wow, you really would hate it.

[D]

I would hate it.

[B]

Like, when you have to sit with it and it just, like, stinks and it's sticky. So you wouldn't do it?

[D]

Never.

[B]

So he wouldn't.

[D]

So he did it every day. Yeah, I had bass. I had the whole. I was shellacked. I was beaten down.

[B]

Did it tickle you to bronze on up in real life?

[D]

No, I didn't like it. There wasn't even a little part of me that was like. You know when actors. You hear actors being like, I got to play. I got to be this other person, inhabit them. I'm not like, a real craftsman. I don't give a shit about storyteller. I'm not a storyteller. I love when they're like, as an artist. As an artist, I just want to say no. I just was, like, playing around.

[B]

Can you do the next one about actors and make fun of them?

[D]

You know, we got so lucky. Because I hate assholes. I have a no asshole policy. And I just can't deal with, like, a lot of really actory actors. And we didn't have auditions except for the kids. It was all offer only. So luckily, by 2 degrees of Kevin Bacon, I got, like, approval. Because when I hate someone, we just say Red Wedding. They're dead to us. If they're difficult, if whatever. Red Wedding. Goodbye. So it's a Game of Thrones reference. Did you not watch it? No, I didn't. Okay.

[B]

Because you saw it. Oh, my God, you're clocking me.

[D]

I'm like, yeah, I know you read it. I recognize Red Wedding is the most violent, brutal episode. You know what else in the history of television?

[B]

Me thinking, like, who do you hate?

[D]

That's what I hate. Everybody. Like, I literally hate most people. But that's okay because I love the people I love. Right?

[B]

Because you had on the girls. I Love. I had them at one of my shows. Andrea Lopez and.

[D]

Yeah, she's great.

[B]

Royceman and Anna Roisman. You had Jessica Capshaw.

[D]

Yeah. And Christine Taylor was in Odd Mom Out. She played Abby Elliott's sister. Abby was busy shooting, like a huge budget thing, so she couldn't do it. But I'm lucky. I've had very good experiences.

[B]

And Jason Biggs and Jenny Mullen were in it, who just all announced. Announced their divorce today. And so I just saw them today. And I love that he played a robber.

[D]

Yeah, he was really funny. He was really, really funny.

[B]

He was. I was like, put him back. Put him back on our screens.

[D]

I know. I feel like he is so talented and a lot of that was improv. And Jenny too is like, just so funny and hysterical.

[B]

It's so fun that you get to just work with the people that you.

[A]

That you like.

[D]

I know. That's the only way to do it, cuz life's too short. You can't have dicks around.

[B]

So how did you decide to. To make influence?

[D]

Like, so originally it was supposed to be a show. Half hour.

[B]

I was thinking that, by the way, I was like, could this have also been a show?

[D]

I mean, I thought so.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It was sold to ifc. And then I. We went through drafts and for months, and then it was ready to go. I got like all the good news that we were being greenlit. And then the next day, all my executives were fired. Like, four people lost their jobs. It was so bummed. I was so bummed because I had flown to LA and we had like a big celebration dinner at Moza, which I love. And I really, like, connected with these people. I mean, I had bonded with them when I pitched it. But then we were like, let's make this thing. And then we were, you know, I think I went out there a few times. Shit hand. So I was devastated. And then I was, wait, if they're

[B]

fired, that means that it's not happening?

[D]

No, it's like, no one, no new person is going to inherit the old guy shit. They're like, I want my own fresh slate.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

So I was. I mean, I was upset for them losing their jobs, but I also. That was the end of this, right? So then I got cast in a movie, like a little cameo part for three days in the Hamptons. And I. The director and I hit it off. And she's a writer too, and she said, you know, I've always wanted to write about the Upper east side. Would you ever want to collaborate on something. And I said, well, I have this script, actually. Jenny Connor. Flashback. Jenny Connor, who is the showrunner of Girls, and nobody wants this. She's an old friend. And we went out to lunch in Brooklyn, and she's like, I think this is a feature. And I thought, like, huh, all right. I kind of stored that away. And then when Carol wanted to write together, I said, I have this script. Let me give it to you. And let me know if you think it could be a movie and we could flesh it out, whatever. So she created Gary. She and her husband created Gary. I didn't. That he wasn't in my pilot.

[B]

Wait, so you met with Jenny and

[D]

she said, I think it could be a feature.

[B]

A feature.

[D]

And then I met this director who wanted to write together.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I gave her my pilot. The 30 minute.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And she came up with ideas to make it. Flesh it out into a feature.

[B]

Into a movie.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

So it was really, like, not the first choice. I wanted to do a show that's more my experience. Experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But it turned out really fun.

[B]

No, it is really fun. And it's an hour and a half. It's like, it's 88 minutes.

[D]

It's less than that, by the way. It's good for moms.

[B]

You were saying, add culture with a 30 minute MTV. And like, when I see 88 minutes, I'm. I'm happy. Yeah, I'm happy when I see a Scorsese, you know, three hour.

[D]

I get really tired at night.

[B]

No, I know. It's hard. It's hard. So what made you the one, like, originally write about the influencer culture?

[A]

Oh, which.

[B]

Fine with kind of being a mommy. She's a mom and she's an influencer.

[D]

But yeah, I had had this character from. I was like, playing around on Instagram during COVID and I had the character in mind. But there was something about this moment that felt very ripe for the mocking. Like the.

[B]

The.

[D]

The, like self promotion and the selling stuff and the discount codes and the. The whole thing felt, you know, very fabulous. Like there was a fabulosity being pushed everywhere and the patina of, you know, filters and wealth and all these things that. That voyeuristically people want that keyhole into their lives and everyone is doing it. I mean, it's so many. I don't follow really influencers, and I just sort of follow, like, media companies and, I don't know, meme. People like that make you love memes.

[B]

You do love a meme.

[D]

I love a meme. But my daughters follow some influencers and, but it's not, they're not influenced by them per se. It's more, it's aspirational sometimes with their lives and their chefs and things. Yeah, but they would say like, mom, you would vomit. Look at this, look at this private jet thing. Look at this. And so we'll have a laugh. But I, I definitely think there's a pernicious side. I personally get the good stuff. I like seeing your kids grow up. I like seeing funny memes. I like like minded political people to make me feel like the world's gonna be okay whatever it is. I have like nooks of Instagram that feel cozy to me and I block out everything else.

[B]

So if it like a get ready with me comes on your for you page, you're.

[D]

It doesn't, it doesn't. It wouldn't come to me because they don't get it that I only want laughing babies, Mahjong and heated rivalry.

[B]

Heated rivalry. I mean the way that took over my for you page at the time

[D]

it came out, I stayed up with my daughter Ivy till like three in the morning.

[B]

But you watch it with your daughter.

[D]

Yeah, we binged it.

[B]

Stop.

[D]

We're very close. Like we don't get cringe about sex. If I watch that with my parents, will certainly my dad. Yeah, but we were just like sitting there eating popcorn while they're butt fucking.

[B]

I, I, I watch it every time my husband wasn't home and then I think for like the finale was home and I was like. And I don't know why I assumed like I couldn't watch it with him. And he was, he was totally fine. Watch it. You're looking at me.

[D]

No, my husband, my husband's like totally not homophobic. No.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But I don't know that he could have handled. I don't know, maybe he could know.

[B]

That's what my husband said. He was like, do think I'm. Did you think I was on the phone? I was like, no. I thought, no.

[D]

I brought my husband to a gay bar on our first date. Like literally. I was like, my friends are all at this bar, you're coming. I think I was trying to test him to make sure he wasn't homophobic

[B]

because I. Oh, I thought you were gonna say that he wasn't gay.

[D]

No, no, no. That he was like comfortable enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, and he is.

[B]

Oh God, that's funny.

[D]

But episode five, I mean that wasn't even. That's like an emotional thing.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That was emotional.

[D]

So maybe that's straight up. Yeah. I loved it so much.

[A]

Watch. Can't wait for season two, huh?

[D]

I don't know. I haven't read the book so I don't know what happens. Like, I don't want trouble.

[B]

I want to read the book. I want, I want, I want to see them. Yeah, I want to see that.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

We'll be right back after the break. I love the real world and I know I'm not alone, but the real world really is the place to shop. It makes luxury feel accessible. And honestly, there's nothing better than finding a designer piece that you've been eyeing for way less than retail. Like I see it all the time by the way. I follow so many people that are so much better than I am even at finding like legit one of a kind pieces on the RealReal that they've been searching for. Like a piece that they want, right? And like a stunning designer like Roberto Cavalli dress, right? They're like looking for it. They're looking for it. Then one day finally pops up, it is affordable. They get it. They don't have to worry because with the real real, every thing is authenticated by real people. Okay? So like you don't have to worry if it's real or not.

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It's the real real, for God's sakes.

[A]

The RealReal has so many incredible finds from brands like Prada, Louis Vuitton, Gucci and all of them. Really the best part is everything goes through that authentication I was telling you about. So you're shopping luxury resale with confidence. And listen, there's daily arrivals. Crazy, crazy. Thousands upon thousand new arrivals every day. Listen, shopping resale feels smarter. It feels sustainable. You can find rare pieces, you can find sold out items. Vintage bag, jewelry, watches, home decor all in one place. The RealReal is the most trusted name and authenticated luxury resale with over 10,000 new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to the realreal.com not skinny. Plus this may only you can get an extra $200 to shop when you sell for the first time. That's the RealReal.com/not skinny. The RealReal.com/not skinny. They have been so intentional about what I wear. I just want to lean into pieces that feel elevated, comfortable, effortless and like that. I want to pull for right? That I don't want.

[B]

Oh, maybe one day I'll wear this.

[A]

If I like happen and go to India. Like no, I want Things that I want to wear all the time. Like I just went through like black pants today. It's like keep one that you really like and don't have four of them you don't like. So it's really important to me to shop at places that have great quality. And Quince is one of those places. Their fabrics elevated, fits, flattering, everything just works with Quince. You don't have to overthink it. I just shared the other day the Mongolian cashmere sweater. That's $50. Okay. You know how much use I get out of it. Not only is it comfortable and I wear it all the time. I've been really loving a crew neck sweater. Not a cardi as you know. You know, you know. And I throw it over everything. I'm like, instead of taking like a jean jacket, I take like a cashmere sweater. Like it's so chic, it's so comfortable, it's so warm and it's so fun. Quince really has like my go to staples from lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops that start at $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. They use premium materials like 100 European linen, organic cotton, ultra soft denim. They really have everything you are looking for and they have it more affordable because they cut out the middleman. So refresh your everyday with luxury. You'll actually use head to quince.com not skinny for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[D]

True.

[A]

That's Quince Q-U-I-N C E.com not skinny for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com you guys already know that I've talked about this before. I've talked about it again and again. So I started taking nutriful supplements for hair. Maybe when I was like one year postpartum I discovered it, which was definitely helpful then because I had had a lot of like hair shedding after giving birth. It's postpartum. You get gorgeous hair for when you're pregnant and then it's starts thinning, having some issues postpartum. Okay. But after I gave birth to Lenny, I knew about the postpartum formula which is breastfeeding friendly. So I started taking it right away, like right after I gave birth. And it was super helpful in combating even going through that process. So listen, everybody's hair journey is different. But I highly recommend you try Nutrafol if you haven't. Because I just know like women we go through so much with Hormonal changes and stress and everything. And Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. And it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. And adding Nutrafol to your daily routine is easy. You order it online, you don't need a prescription, and it automatically delivers. And you get free shipping. And you can save up to 20% and get added perks to support your health journey. Let your hair be one less thing you worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster. Growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Neutrophil is offering my listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit neutrophil.com and enter promo code not skinny10. That's Nutrafol spelled N u T R a f o l dot com. The promo code is not skinny10. I just posted a carousel this week of my look for get real. And I am just a comfort first girly. Like, I live in loungewear, so I love my Crocs. Like, Crocs shoes are so comfortable. You can wear them all day and you forget you're wearing shoes. You're like, am I at a spa?

[B]

Am I walking and getting a foot massage?

[A]

I just like a slip and go situation. Like, I'm always on the run. My life is crazy. So I don't have time to like tie shoes. Like, there's no time for tying.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love that I can grab them on my way out of the door and never have to sacrifice convenience or style because I think they look so darn cute. Okay. Fight me. Crocs shoes come in so many fun silhouettes.

[B]

Some are more elevated.

[A]

Like right now. My new faves are the classic crafted clogs, which are made with 100 soft washed canvas. Okay. I love these so much. I feel like they elevate the croc a little bit. Like you can wear them with, you know, jeans or slacks. And then you see like kind of the front and you don't have those crocs holes, so you can't put your little jibbits there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But if you like to keep it simple and enjoy the embellishments, you can wear the classic buckle clog. Okay. It comes with this cute buckle that's a little oversized and it adds just a touch of elegance to a classic shoe. There's even a Jibbitz charm. For anyone, visit crocs.com or a store near you to find your perfect pair of classic clogs. And we're back.

[B]

So we were trying to say before, and I think I cut you off. When I was telling you how Danielle has, like, heart and depth and more to her, you were starting to say something that it made me.

[D]

Oh, I think I was thanking you for saying that, because that's sort of the goal. Because that's what I went through in real life, meeting some women who I found to be what I call bftj, Bad for the juice. Very flashy, Feeding into stereotypes, logos everywhere.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And I was just thinking, this is not how I was raised. This is not my values, and I'm not gonna like these people. And guess what? They were great mothers. They're nice. And I did like them in the end.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It is true. I mean, my. My kid goes to, like, a, you know, a private Jewish school, and then at first you're like, how am I ever.

[A]

And then it's like, they're nice, they're

[B]

nice, they're nice, they're nice.

[D]

And most importantly, their kids. They love their kids. So, you know, maybe we don't see eye to eye on certain parenting choices or values, but it's. I just feel like ultimately they're. They're. They're good people.

[B]

Right. So is that, like, the message? Kind of.

[D]

I mean, I didn't want to, like, smash people over the head with, like, a morals malice, but I definitely wanted to show that there's more to these people sometimes.

[B]

And you really did.

[D]

I also really want to try to get at the fact that Instagram, there's a dichotomy between what they're posting and what is going on when they're alone on their bed.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And that's the key. And that's why we. We partnered with Instagram to get all the graphics and all the fonts and everything. Those are all. That's all their user interface.

[B]

Oh.

[D]

And so you see the divergence between, you know, all the cute little things she's posting, and then she's lying alone in her bed, like, miserable, looking at her old ring.

[B]

So what's your relationship like with social media?

[D]

Like, I think I'm pretty healthy.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I really. I know people who say they got sucked down a rabbit hole or they feel bad about themselves and they're depressed. And I was very vigilant about this with. I have a son and two daughters and my girls, especially with body dysmorphia. I really didn't want them to. And so I would. As they came of age, I remember saying, like, this is body tunes. Look how this window is warped. This is not real. And they totally get that.

[B]

They get it.

[D]

Yeah, they get it. And their school, they went to a girls school, Chapin, that has. It's very like female empowerment. They had. I thought at the time this was excessive. They had a three day social media, like, workshop thing. And I realize now, like, wow, that was so great. Because they were scared about, like. They don't send nudes. They. There was this show, like the Cheetah Girls or something on Nickelodeon. A girl like center tits to some guy. There was some revenge porn. Something. I think my kids got lucky because they were too young for the like, really bad to go down. There was some. At a private school, a senior that. There was some revenge porn thing. So there were the cautionary tales to scare the out of my kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

That are then taught in these. In these workshops.

[B]

Wait, so your kids, you stayed in the city with three kids?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Now you gotta convince me of that. Of staying in the city.

[D]

You could do it with thing you can.

[B]

Two or three kids. You don't have to move to the burbs.

[D]

No.

[B]

So tell me.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So never called your name like a.

[D]

I have suburban panic disorder. I created it and diagnosed myself with it. I don't drive. I am a child of the streets.

[B]

You literally born on the upper side

[D]

in New York Hospital and will hopefully die in my bed here or whatever. I love New York. I couldn't live anywhere else. I would say that the suburban kids that my kids met at camp are way faster. They sucked a dick, first they were doing drugs, first they were. Oh, my kids tell me everything. They were way faster with.

[B]

Really?

[D]

Yeah, because they're bored. They're bored. My kids are never bored. They're in New York City.

[B]

You growing up in New York City, you didn't do things early? I did.

[D]

I did not really? No. I snuck into nightclubs at 13.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

But I wasn't like anorexic or doing coke or banging. Like, I was actually a good girl. I was just in places I was not supposed to be. But I wasn't drinking. I just wanted to be dancing with like, like cool club kids.

[B]

So you think. Yeah, no, that. That it makes sense that in the suburbs you get bored and you do the things. Yeah, but city kids are more like

[D]

in the bottle now is like handies. Like, you are blowing people at 13 in some of these places.

[B]

Wait, I cannot. I mean, someone just showed me today. I think my interior designer showed me

[A]

and she's like from the.

[B]

On Long Island Yeah. Showed me someone from the daughter's class, like, in a bra. Tick tocking.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

At fucking 12.

[D]

Yeah. And I.

[B]

And I'm like, I wouldn't do that now.

[D]

There was like, a 12, actually, she was 13. Giving bulimia lessons in Long island to a group of girls. Like, my girls are, like fonts of knowledge and repositories for all the teen gossip. And they're like, mom, it's getting faster and faster. I mean, I don't know how much more we can take.

[B]

But, you know, it backed me up in the. In the movie that I made a note of. Obvi. I booked a cesarean. I'm not an animal.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is another like.

[D]

Like, that was the two posh to push era. There was a spate of elective Cs.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And people. Definitely. When I had vag, mine were all vag. All three. And it was terrible. Like, I'm not gonna lie to you. I wish I'd gotten an elective seat. I begged for one, and my doctor said no.

[B]

Really?

[D]

Yes. She's like, that's crazy. You don't slice and dice just because you don't want to, like, stretch out your box. But I had a stage four episiotic.

[B]

I think you call it your box. Have you always.

[D]

Always. My best. My best friends from high school. Yeah. Like, we call eating out Chow box. But anyway, we. By the way, we went on a road trip in Cape Fear, North Carolina, in the 90s, and we saw a fried chicken place called Chow Box, and we screeched off the road, like, across four lanes of traffic and ran in, and we're like, do you sell T shirts? He's like, all the Yankees asked me that.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So your box is cute.

[B]

Did you teach that?

[D]

It wasn't. Oh, yeah.

[B]

We all say, oh, you all say,

[D]

but my box was pulverized in birth. In the first. The first one. The first one, I had a stage four episiotomy. I had a vaginas. It was one big hole.

[B]

So did you do what Danielle did?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You did?

[D]

Yeah. That's how I learned about it. You get, like, raped by a lightsaber.

[B]

So it's. Oh, so it's not that crazy. Are you awake?

[D]

You're awake.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[D]

There's, like, numbing, and then there's a little. You can do Pronox.

[B]

Wait, I thought it was way more intense than that.

[D]

Not mine, because.

[B]

Okay, so the thing about the movie that cracked me up was that, like, I know a lot of things are exaggerated.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But a lot of things aren't.

[D]

No, I know.

[B]

Which is crazy.

[D]

The dog walker thing is real. The Wolf Tank clan and the village apparently is like more expensive than Yuki. And they come to you your house and look around and they interview you to see if they'll accept your dog walk.

[B]

Wait, that was wild. The dog walker.

[D]

Like there's a whole dog underworld in New York. It's a subculture of dog obsessed people who do not. If you like crack a can of Alpo, you are a dog mom. Like they get locavore seed to anus food dropped off like cater it. No, I shit you not. You can't make this up. I'm a. I have a God dog. And there are like these lesbian breeders.

[B]

I have a God dog.

[D]

I have a God dog.

[B]

What is.

[D]

I was the testimony for the lesbian breeders in Minnesota that have a seven year wait list to give. To give the. That my friend should get the dog. And I talked for 90 minutes on the phone to them and so she's like, you're the godmother of this dog. Like I wouldn't have the dog if it wasn't for you.

[B]

So you're not. You don't have a dog?

[D]

No.

[B]

You're not a dog person?

[D]

No.

[B]

Are you a cat person?

[D]

No, I'm allergic to animals. I like safari, like where they're over there and I get to wave from the van.

[B]

And I loved Gwyneth Paltrow.

[D]

She's so good.

[B]

She was so great.

[D]

Long island accent, right?

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And I mean Jericho.

[B]

She came back this. She was in Marty Supreme.

[D]

Yep. And now she's doing strangers.

[B]

She's doing right.

[D]

She's gonna start.

[B]

Yeah. Did you read it?

[D]

I love it. I'm friends with Bill.

[B]

Oh my God, So good.

[D]

Our kids are in class, we're in school together.

[B]

Oh, I read it too. It was so good.

[D]

And when it's perfect and she was her first choice.

[A]

Perfect, perfect.

[D]

She knows the world.

[A]

That happened so quickly.

[B]

What do you think about that, by the way? As a writer? Like today I feel like book to movie.

[D]

Yeah, the pipeline is fast.

[B]

The pipeline is.

[D]

But only if you're a crazy bestseller like that, that's like runaway bestseller. All my books sold to movies and none were made like Bell's book was so far and away. It was New York Times bestseller for five months. It's still going. So when you're a juggernaut like that, then you'll get made because they know they have ip that's really worth something. Yeah, but they're still buying books left and right, but they buy five times as many as they intend to produce.

[B]

So they buy them and then what? What do they do with that?

[D]

They try to adapt them or it'll languish and evolve somewhere. But normally the fee is very low. Like my books were optioned for like 5,000 or 10,000 and then they're not made. You. You get. Only really make money when they make the movie.

[B]

Oh, gotcha.

[D]

Then you get like your chunk.

[B]

I feel like today, like, if you don't have like you said, like an ip, whether it's like a book or a play or a real life story, like, it's so much harder to like make.

[D]

I think you're right. I think people are so risk averse

[A]

now and wanted to come build it with a bullet.

[D]

That's right, because that's them protecting their ass. As a development person to say, oh, look, I'm not just going out on limb. This has a following built in.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But they're. Because there's of course, great ideas that are not that. It's just so dumb. I hate everybody.

[B]

Tell me about what the wildest thing that you've witnessed an Upper east side mom do. Was it the headphones on the belly with the Mozarts?

[D]

Well, a lot of people have like anorexia coaches to just like.

[B]

Like for real?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And then let's see, what else the craziest thing? Well, I guess, I guess like the, the really. The. It's sort of a bigger picture thing rather than like specifics. But I think some people can't see the forest through the trees in terms of what their end goal is for their kids. So they're sort of helicoptering because they want them to go to a good college, let's say. But so it's. It's not one thing, it's just this. The way that they see the children as this vicarious extension of themselves. It's kind of pathetic. No, it's like, why have kids? I don't know. That was.

[B]

How did you get. How did you adapt yourself? Being like out of my mouth to like, you living here all these years, your kids growing up in it, like, you just like, did we keep our head down?

[D]

We do our own thing. And whenever those questions came, where are

[B]

you going to school? Were you sending them to camp?

[D]

I just. Well, no more from my kids. Why do you not have red bottoms on your shoes like the other moms? Why don't we go to the Hamptons? You know, I was like, we do our own thing. And I don't need red bottoms on my shoes. And I don't like the Hamptons for us. Like we like to travel, whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I just shut it down. I said, we do different things differently.

[B]

I mean, it is crazy. Like my kid goes to school and it's like they all talk about where they're going on vacation.

[D]

Well, that's, that's, that's like our. Yeah, that was really the genesis of Influenced because Ivy said, where are we going on vacation? And I said, excuse me, like for Christmas. I said, don't just assume we're going on vacation. And she said, well, everyone at school's asking where we're going. And I said, well, tell them that not everyone can afford to go and that's not right. And then she left. And I looked at Harry and said, where are we going on vacation? So we went to Amsterdam and we were in the Anne Frank House on January 4th of 2020, right before the pandemic. And I'm convinced that that's why we had an easy pandemic with three teenagers is because they had just been there. So it just put everything in perspective.

[B]

They just saw Anne Frank's. Yes.

[D]

So I was making fun of some of the Danielle's who are like, this is a nightmare. I'm in hell. You know, because it was not health.

[B]

But you know where that wouldn't happen and where kids wouldn't ask where the other kid is going on vacation. Public school.

[D]

No, I know that would never happen. I said to my kids, always from the beginning, never ask someone where they're going on vacation.

[A]

That's like rule number one.

[D]

I, I don't do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, maybe if it's among like peers that you know are always going on vacation, but I just think it's like assumptive.

[B]

Did you ever live in LA for any period of time?

[D]

I don't drive. I'm going tomorrow at 6am and I will be ubering everywhere.

[B]

Do you not have a license?

[D]

I have a license because my family did a heroin style intervention. They all sat around me in a semicircle and I came downstairs and they're all sitting there and were like, have a seat. We think it's selfish that you don't drive because every time we travel I'm like, someone take me to Starbucks. And my, all my parents, my husband all gathered around and said, you like pretend you're this strong, independent woman, but you always need rides and we're sick of it.

[B]

So they made me get us.

[D]

So they made Me get a license at 37 with a high school football coach who was like not working in the summer and was my teacher. And then I got my license and I've basically barely drive since. Like, I've. I'm.

[B]

That was okay in the classes. And did you pass the first test?

[D]

Yeah, I passed the first test, but I backed over a pink flamingo lawn ornament. And this is an episode of Odd Mom Out.

[B]

Wait, you didn't take the test in the city?

[D]

I took it in Yonkers. And my driving Instructor handed the DMV person a Dunkin Donuts Munchkins box with 500 in it. So I got it out of a bribe. I. I don't know. I didn't know I was bribing, but the guy bribed on my behalf.

[B]

Did you have to pay him back the $500?

[D]

We think he, like, basically the package that we bought was like all you can eat lessons. So he wanted me to just fudgeing get my license so he'd be, you know, he doesn't want to give me 20 more hours. So that's. Oh, so you guaranteed your life. I passed by bribe. Amy Sedaris played my DMV person and the show.

[B]

Rewatch it.

[D]

It's.

[C]

It's.

[D]

It's on Peacock.

[B]

It's on Peacock. Guys and influence. Where is that coming out? Theaters.

[D]

Theaters. And then July 10, it will be on demand wherever movies are streamed.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's fun.

[D]

You can pre order on Apple. I think next week.

[B]

That's exciting. Everybody should really watch it. It's so fun. It's so entertaining. It's so good.

[D]

And you forget about like the dumpster fire of the world.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Like, right. You just tune out. It's silly.

[B]

Which is what you want.

[D]

Silly. Fun.

[B]

You talked about. You went on Drew Barrymore.

[D]

Your.

[B]

Your sister in law.

[D]

Yes. Outlaw.

[B]

Outlaw.

[D]

Or I was gonna say she's divorced from my brother.

[B]

Right. And I mean, you guys were really sweet, but you also talked or she talked about how she's so inspired by you because, like, you make your own things happen.

[D]

That's so nice.

[A]

Yeah. And.

[B]

Right.

[D]

She said that, like, remember I was sort of like in a day. Well, there's like 50 bazillion lights and you're in this huge studio. You're definitely like, what just happened? What did I say?

[B]

She said that. She said that you create like your stuff that you want to do and that you've always kind of done that. You don't wait to like. And you were kind of talking about the before with the acting. Like, that's why you don't want to do it, really.

[D]

I would say I don't have a rule book, really, Because I think if you follow a rulebook, I don't know, the path is not linear. So even I'm a advice giver, I guess, because I just say, like, be you. Like, do you and double down on what you're offering. Because if someone said to me, how do I become an actress? Like, I have no idea. I started 39. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't have a. Like, a traditional path in any of the. I've done.

[B]

Would you audition now?

[D]

I would if I really liked. I really just like doing my own. Yeah, but I like when something was just offered to me and fell in my lap, then I. If I wasn't doing anything, I did it. Like Bad Mom's Christmas. My. I. I did a. Like a fun cameo in Atlanta. I got to explore Atlanta. And they hired me to do the DVD extras. I was in the movie in, like, one day, and I'm in that. My scene was with Susan Sarandon and Catherine Hahn. Love Catherine Hahn.

[B]

Yeah, Catherine.

[D]

And then they hired me to do the DVD extras to stay and, like, do behind the scenes for the DVDs. That's how old that movie.

[B]

Mom's.

[A]

No.

[B]

That's crazy that you're saying that.

[D]

Yeah, it's like, later, 10 years ago. Yeah.

[B]

So what kind of mom were you with your kids? Like, seeing all these other moms we were talking about. Were you, like, a sleep training?

[D]

I did sleep.

[B]

You did?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Were you, like, a scheduled nap? Like, very.

[D]

We were very, like, fast and loose.

[B]

Like, chill.

[D]

We were very chill.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I did sleep train as babies, though, like at 10 weeks or 12 pounds, whichever was first, because I didn't have a baby nurse and nannies and all that. Like, I was the one getting up and I was fucking tired, so I don't know. I didn't screw them up.

[B]

So you were.

[D]

People think it's mean to Ferberize, but whatever.

[B]

So what do you think about all, like, mom bloggers and all the methods and all the.

[D]

I think you have to do what works for you to tune out the noise and just follow your own gut. Like, some people read parenting books because they need guidance because they had shitty childhoods. I am so lucky. Hashtag blessed. I had a great childhood. So I just have instincts to replicate it.

[B]

Right. That is. I mean, it does work that way, like, when you kind of love the way that you were Raised.

[D]

Yeah. I love it. My dad did not have that. His father never said, I love you. He never said, I'm proud of you. And so he was like, I'm just gonna do the opposite. And so we were always told how awesome we were and how loved we were. And, I mean, I'm very lucky.

[B]

Are all of your kids out of the house?

[D]

Yeah, but my oldest is moving back. She's graduating college next week.

[A]

Just.

[B]

She's moving back with you until she.

[D]

Until she, like, figures out job situation, taking the summer off.

[B]

Do you want her to, like, stay for years?

[D]

And I lived at home till 24.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And I'm living at home now. Harry and I are renovating, and so we're living with my mom.

[B]

Oh, really?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

How's that?

[D]

It's great. It's.

[B]

So.

[D]

It's weird because I live there till 24, so it's just a lot of the same doormen, you know, the unions in New York. Like, you are there in that job till you are in the coffin and you, like, go. I was like, hi, I'm back.

[B]

You get your coffee in the morning.

[D]

I get the coffee in the morning in my schlepper sweats, whatever. And then there's a gym in the basement. I mean, it's. It's bizarre. Like, it is a little throwbacky, but it's just still some time.

[B]

Oh, my God. Make a show about that.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Going to live with your mom, the renovation.

[D]

She's so cool.

[B]

You know, doormen are a whole thing because, like, I feel like people that follow me that don't. That are bird people and have never. I don't know. And it sounds like they're aliens, but they don't get the reference as much.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

First of all, like, there are days that I love my doorman. There are days where, like, I don't

[A]

want to small talk right now.

[D]

Do you have an elevator man?

[B]

No. I would love an elevator man because I don't like elevators.

[D]

No. The. I don't know. Then you have to talk the whole elevator.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

It's the weather. It's the.

[B]

You know, sometimes I just want to. Like, that could make me. Like, there were days where I told my husband, like, just for this, I would move to the burbs for not having. Like, I love them, but there's.

[A]

Sometimes you don't want to.

[D]

You don't want to talk.

[B]

You don't want to talk.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, you feel like you kind of have to.

[A]

Or with neighbors or whatever. Okay.

[B]

We're Going to play yay or nay to these influencer trends.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Get ready with me. Okay. This is a specific kind of get ready with me.

[D]

I can. I'm going to say Nate, everything Okay.

[B]

But this is a specific kind of get ready with me. It's a get ready with me putting on the concealer. But you're telling a life story.

[D]

Nay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What do you think of those? Do they. I don't even see them.

[D]

But that sounds awful. I'm very. Everyone's insufficient, so.

[B]

By the way, just, you know, it's a rule. You can't tell a story without being putting on concealer at the same time.

[D]

No, that sounds ridiculous.

[B]

Setting up a tripod for when you wake up so you can absorfly not hateful ASMR.

[D]

Okay, there is one that I like, Joe CB on YouTube.

[B]

She does ASMR.

[D]

Well, yeah, so my daughter's what we watch. She does. She's a really relaxing voice and she, like, puts the nails on the glass bottles.

[B]

Oh, my next one was nail tapping on products.

[D]

Yeah, she. It's not really product. Yeah, I guess. But she would, like full. Like she has a pretty glass. Old glass carafe and she'll do it on that and then like, put rose water.

[B]

Okay, so you like ASMR and nail tapping.

[D]

Yeah, but not on Instagram. Like, this was a YouTube video. And she pretends that she's like, brushing your hair and stuff.

[B]

Okay, I need to see brushing Josie.

[D]

Yes. Like, she'll take a brush and

[B]

she'll go like this.

[D]

And you're like, oh, I'm relaxed now. I fall asleep after five minutes.

[B]

No.

[D]

Yeah, it's like someone cracked one of those things and you just collapsed.

[B]

Oh, my God, that's so funny. Well, thank you so much for coming. This was so fun.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

You're so awesome. When did you say was?

[D]

July 10th. On demand.

[B]

July 10th on demand. And right now in theaters.

[D]

Yes. And you can go to influenced movie.com for all the info for all the end. 12 cities nationwide. Tapity tap.

[A]

Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple podcasts and write a little review.

[B]

If you tell me you did, I'll

[A]

give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday.

[D]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.

[E]

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary this summer.

[F]

Don't squeeze in. Spread out. Find homes big enough for your whole guest list on vrbo. From family reunions to trips with friends, VRBO has spacious summer stays for every group size and budget. That's vacation rentals done right. Start exploring on VRBO and book your next day now.