Lena Dunham: The Voice of Our Generation

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Lena Dunham: The Voice of Our Generation"

Not Skinny But Not Fat | Hosted by Amanda Hirsch
Release Date: July 8, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Not Skinny But Not Fat, Amanda Hirsch sits down with acclaimed writer, director, and actress Lena Dunham. The conversation delves deep into Lena's personal journey, creative endeavors, and her perspectives on modern culture. The interview provides listeners with an intimate look into Lena's life, her inspirations, and her latest projects.

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Lena Dunham’s Recent Work and Projects

Amanda opens the discussion by expressing her admiration for Lena's body of work, particularly her influence through the television series Girls. Lena shares her excitement about her upcoming Netflix show, "Too Much", which premiered on July 10, 2025.

Notable Quote:

Amanda Hirsch [09:53]: "Lena, first of all, can we be friends when you're in the city in the summer?"

Lena Dunham [17:13]: "Literally, I'd love nothing more. I want to be in my, like adult female friends who wear a great top. Matching top with under top."

Lena elaborates on her collaboration with co-writer and husband, highlighting the synergy between their creative minds. She mentions working on a romantic comedy featuring Natalie Portman and discusses the challenges and rewards of transitioning from acting to directing and writing.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [85:03]: "And it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because also, when people... have differences. Your hair falls out things happen with hormone changes."

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Personal Journey and Relationships

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Lena's personal life, particularly her journey to sobriety and her marriage. Lena opens up about her early struggles, including dealing with chronic pain and anxiety, which led her to embrace a sober lifestyle seven and a half years ago.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [39:35]: "For me, it's the right thing for me. I have no... ability to tap out that alcohol or drugs or whatever gives you off the table."

Amanda and Lena reminisce about their high school days, discussing past crushes and the complexities of teenage relationships. Lena shares a heartfelt story about her unrequited love for a classmate, affectionately nicknamed "Pancakes," and how those experiences shaped her understanding of love and friendship.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [34:36]: "And then years later, I didn't see him for years and years and years. And a girl came up to me and she was like, I'm Pancake's ex-girlfriend. And he said he thinks about you a lot. And that really made me feel good."

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Health, Habits, and Personal Choices

The discussion shifts to Lena's personal habits, including her approach to health and wellness. She talks about managing her hair post-early menopause, her choice to dye her hair at home to save money, and her experiences with manicures and other self-care routines.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [18:38]: "I got a new head of hair and it was like super hair. Like, suddenly I felt like I had a rope coming out of my head."

Lena also shares insights into her dietary choices, mentioning her commitment to sobriety as akin to being a vegetarian— a personal decision for clarity and health rather than societal pressure.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [40:49]: "For me, it's the right thing for me. I have no... ability to tap out that alcohol or drugs or whatever gives you off the table."

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Creative Process and Collaborations

Amanda and Lena delve into Lena's creative process, discussing how her experiences and relationships influence her work. Lena emphasizes the importance of collaboration, especially with her husband, in bringing authenticity to her characters and stories.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [80:35]: "And then, so yeah, he was. It was an incredible asset to me. If you love your job and you spend so much time on it. And it then naturally takes you away from your partner."

She highlights her dedication to creating nuanced male characters and the challenges of balancing multiple roles in the entertainment industry.

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Reflections on Fame and Cultural Impact

Towards the end of the interview, Lena reflects on her impact on culture, particularly through her role in Girls. She discusses the enduring relevance of the show, its influence on younger generations, and the ways in which it continues to resonate, as evidenced by trends on platforms like TikTok.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [65:12]: "It's crazy to me. I will admit. I've admitted it before. TikTok is the only. Because I don't have my own ins. I mean, I don't have the password to my own Instagram account. I don't have the password to my own."

Lena also touches upon her upcoming memoir, slated for release in Spring 2026, which promises to intertwine her personal experiences with broader cultural examinations.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [86:43]: "And it's a memoir, sort of about the period of time from when girls began until now. And my... both my work life, my health, my sobriety, and also just like, kind of reflecting on our societal relationship to women."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Amanda and Lena expressing mutual admiration and appreciation for each other's work and friendship. Lena underscores the importance of knowing when to say no to opportunities that don't align with her vision, reinforcing the episode's themes of self-awareness and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

Lena Dunham [90:01]: "When to say no. And I used to be really scared. Cause I always thought everything is fleeting, but it's not. It's okay to say no."

Amanda wraps up by encouraging listeners to engage with the podcast and stay tuned for future episodes.

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Key Takeaways

• Personal Growth: Lena Dunham's journey emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, sobriety, and personal health in achieving both personal and professional fulfillment.

• Creative Collaboration: Collaborative efforts, especially with close partners, can significantly enhance the authenticity and depth of creative projects.

• Cultural Impact: Lena reflects on the lasting influence of her work, particularly Girls, and its continued relevance in contemporary culture.

• Boundaries and Self-Care: Recognizing and maintaining personal boundaries is crucial for long-term well-being and sustaining meaningful relationships.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Amanda on Margarita Recipes:
  "My favorite recipe for my Amanda house Margarita... you gotta use a straw for that."
  [00:30]

• Lena on New Yorker Piece:
  "The whole thing. Sorry not to show off that I can read. You are, and I don't read."
  [13:20]

• Lena on Sobriety:
  "For me, it's the right thing for me... chronic pain, anxiety... it's better to just have all of the ability to tap out."
  [40:35]

• Lena on Meeting Her Husband:
  "And I realized... we are so conditioned to feel that our largeness... my husband... I'm a welcome."
  [73:28]

• Lena on Saying No:
  "Sometimes you just have to, like, have the bravery to know when to say no."
  [88:54]

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This episode offers a profound exploration of Lena Dunham's multifaceted life, blending personal anecdotes with professional insights. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of her motivations, challenges, and the creative processes behind her influential work.

Transcript

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay, you guys, it is finally summer outside. Finally summer. We're talking pool weather, we're talking beach weather, we're talking linen weather, and of course, we are talking margarita weather. I am such a margarita girly. Especially in the summer, because it just gives that kind of a vibe, like a rooftop pool with, like, a margarita. It's chilled, it's delicious, it's crisp, it's refreshing. And the tequila I love to use for my margaritas is a straw right here. Okay? This tequila is so good. It is so smooth. This is obviously the blanco, and it's made with 100% agave, which we love. It's just delicious. I love it so much. And I can tell you right now, my favorite recipe for my Amanda house Margarita, using a straw is you use a shot of a straw and then you use some lime juice, some soda water or just regular water, a little bit of maple syrup, and sometimes I like to add in like a jalapeno. Okay? That's all you need. And it is just the best, the best margarita recipe, but you gotta use a straw for that. Estrall Tequila is the official house tequila of Dear Media. You could feel good about ordering Estrall at a bar or restaurant or getting it for your home and making a housemark like me, because it is affordable and it's great tasting and it mixes beautifully into any cocktail, especially a margarita. So stock up the summer on a straw. It's my go to for get together. So whether you're hosting or just having a drink with your husband or with a couple of friends, choose Estrall Tequila. How's Marg? Summer is here. It's time to stock up. You guys go to www.astral tequila a s T R A L T E q u I la.com to find a straw near you. And don't forget the limes, okay? Dakota Johnson would never forget those limes. If you know, you know. Please enjoy responsibly. A straw tequila. 40 alcohol per volume. Diageo, New York, New York. The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. He's Sorry, guys. What's up? If you haven't seen me or heard from me or you're like, where did Amanda go? She's been so quiet. She's been so mysterious. She's been trying to catch up on Love Island. Okay, okay. I know. I also lost my voice. I don't know who I am anymore. Actually don't know who I am anymore. I was gonna say who I am anymore, where I am, what day it is, what time it is. It's July. But I'm gonna give you this tip because I know you hear me saying this a lot. I. Somebody told me this, and then I heard more about it, and I feel like I agree with this take. I always talk about how time flies. How are we, you know, how has it been a week? How are we in July? How's, you know, time flung, you know, everything flies by. I was like, how do. How do. How does that stop? Like, how do you help yourself and. And. And your brain and everything? Just not feel like time is flying. And one of the tips that I got, and I feel like this is important for me. Maybe you feel the same way is stop saying the time flies. I feel like that must be so true. I feel like I'm gonna start doing that because somewhere I read or one of you told me I can't remember. Like, if you stop saying, like, time flies. How was it Friday already? Like, how's it another week? If you stop doing that, like, it can only help you because if you keep doing that and that's. I mean, with everything, it's like we talk about manifesting. We talk about just putting stuff out there so it can happen. And so what am I putting out there? The time fucking flies and everything is fleeting and, you know, the moments are just there and gone. No, I don't want to put that out there. I'm going to stop doing that. To stop doing that. And I hope that this helps you as well, because I can't stop. But. But I. But I won't stop saying that Love island took over my life. I don't know how you guys are doing it. I like, it is so much tv and, like, I love tv and I am usually so good. Like, I know some of you will be like, I'll be delayed a little bit, but this is like, I am trying to catch up so bad. And then there's another one, and then there's another one. Then you guys are like, just wait, you haven't seen this episode. And. And you know what? The biggest chutzpah of you people. What about Love island uk? Catch up on Love Island UK too. Are you watching that? Excuse me. Like, are you okay? You really think that I can be Watching Love Island, USA and uk. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But anyway, it's one of those, like, when I explain to anybody that's not in this world doesn't get it. I know there are people like that. I'm like, no, no, you need to know what's. Like, you can't be walking this earth and not know about a Maya papaya. Like, you can't be, you know, you just can't. You can't. This is like part of our frickin culture. I'm not about to not be part of our culture Anyway, you guys, this episode, today's episode is super duper duper important to me. A lot of you asked me, amanda, remember that day that you said that you have your dream guests on today, Your wish list guests on today. Who is it? When is it coming? It's coming. It's here now. And I have to tell you, like, the day that I interviewed this person, Regina, who works with me, will tell you, she was like, I've never seen you this way. Looking at you. Looking at her was like, you're watching somebody meeting, like, their idol. And it was just such a special day for me because they say, don't meet your idols, and they're wrong. They're wrong. They're wrong. Lena Denham. Since I started this podcast, she's been on my wish list. Since I watch Girls, she literally became the voice in my head. If I could write, I'd want to write like her. I wish I had her words. I wish I could see the world through her eyes, which I sometimes feel like I do. I love reading, watching, and listening to everything she has to say. Her point of view has always inspired me. Her vulnerability, putting herself out there, saying everything that we are thinking. In a way, her coming on this podcast is literally a dream come true. You guys, I have a wish list. It's on my phone and it says literally like maybe 15 names. It's like Britney Spears, Lena Dunham. Not joking. And I can't believe, like, I don't want to cross her off the list. I want to leave her there, maybe put like a little green check mark because it was a dream come true. And little did I know we would connect the way that we did. This is not only a dream guest and a wish list guest. It's also probably my top episode ever. Ever. Lena. Seriously, I fucking love her brain. I love her brilliance. She has a new show out on Netflix in two days. It's called Too Much. It's with Meg Salter. And Will Sharp. You know him and you love him. From White Lotus. This is such a Lena show. Jessica, who basically is Lena, is a workaholic. She's reeling from a broken relationship. She takes a job in London and she meets Felix, played by Will. And there are red flags, but they're, you know, they have this unusual connection that's impossible to ignore. This is Lena again on our screens, which I know I've been waiting for, I've been jonesing for. And I'm so happy to say that she's working on a bunch of new projects. So she's going to be in our lives in the near future. And we missed her so much. I don't know how to explain what Girls has meant to me, what it's done for me, how I literally. Clips will come up on my Instagram or TikTok from the show. And I get chills. Like, I get chills. And the thing is, with Lena, it's like I just admire her. I admire this woman. I think she's so smart. And I was so nervous to meet her because I was like, how do I know that this person that I look up to and is going to be anything? Like, I think I also haven't seen her talk about anything in years. I haven't seen her in the prep. Like, maybe she's not the same that I, like, envision that she is. And guess what? She is the same. And she's my kind of. And I can't wait for you to hear it because it's just a love fest and. And I love her. And I'm just so happy about this episode. I'm so happy that it's finally out and I can share it with you. So enjoy. Enjoy my convo with the one and only Lena Dunham. I thought of your New Yorker piece. We'll talk about it.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, my God. I.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Which I'm offended on behalf. I regret it.

[Lena Dunham]

Telling him about that. I regret what.

[Amanda Hirsch]

What you said in the New Yorker about our city.

[Lena Dunham]

No. Okay. I regret nothing.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

But I wish I regretted it. I wish it's because it's my city, too. If it wasn't my city too, I would say none of that.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Because I feel you could only talk negatively about your home.

[Amanda Hirsch]

What you said, so perfect in every.

[Lena Dunham]

Way, but thank you. But that being said, today, he was like, how are you doing? I was like, can you call me between things? And I was like, no. Because right now, like, four things happened at once in the way that it can only happen in New York. Like, someone almost bumped the car. Like, a man is standing in traffic screaming. Like, someone, like, my friend sent me kind of a mean text. And then my mom said, can you talk in all caps? And then one other thing happened. I was like. And I'm just like, that feeling when you're in the back of a car, New York, and you're like, I'm not crying, but I could cry, and I just can't open my mouth right now. And then I thought, I'm going to Amanda. It's gonna be. No.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I can't believe you even know my. My show or me. You don't understand. Yes, I do. Really?

[Lena Dunham]

I was so excited because this morning I was like. My father was like, do you wanna hang out this afternoon? I was like, I'm doing a podcast. And he was like, what's it called? I was like, it's called not skinny but not fat. And then he looked at me and he goes, that's a good one for you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I cannot. He probably thinks we're talking about, like, diet culture.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, my God, I love your fabletics, Chloe.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No. Is that so funny that I have the Chloe one?

[Lena Dunham]

Did she give it to you? Well, yeah, she did. That is, by the way, mask. I do wear good American jeans.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And I tried her. What? This is all good American.

[Lena Dunham]

It's really nice. Her stuff is beautiful.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It's good.

[Lena Dunham]

It's really good.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That's what this. People don't give on earrings.

[Lena Dunham]

Are the pants her too?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, it's favorite daughter. Do you look good?

[Lena Dunham]

They look great. I didn't. I've never tried a favorite daughter pant, but they're great. They look great.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Love you.

[Lena Dunham]

And Amanda, we trust.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I don't know what to do with this. I'm leaving. I'm so excited when I tell you that when I started this podcast, I've always had a wish list. An unfeasible, like, craziest dream, swearing my life could cry. Craziest dream. Who I would want on my podcast, and you're on it, babe.

[Lena Dunham]

That's so beautiful and wild, and I feel like you've. You've already dreamed all your dreams. Like, you've got. You've got all the people. Everyone's come on your podcast.

[Amanda Hirsch]

But think about how long, like, I if. First of all, don't ever look at our dms. Promise me. Okay, Promise. Right now.

[Lena Dunham]

You mean the dms?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like. Like, don't scroll up because you're just gonna see, like, me probably harassing you since girls came out.

[Lena Dunham]

I would love to look at our dms.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay, we could do that.

[Lena Dunham]

I'd love to look really quickly.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I'm like, don't look. Okay. We could look.

[Lena Dunham]

You're like, okay, we can look together. When you first hit DMs. Because it's been so long since I've gotten on Instagram myself. Because my friend does it for my friend does it for me professionally. I don't force her to do it as a friend. She is paid, but she also is my friend. But it's a professional and friendly relationship that when you were like, don't look at our DMs, I was like, are we going to have our own DM account? And we're going to get DMs together about this podcast and they're going to be mean. Like, it went to so many lives that way.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yes. And then we're already in our shared account.

[Lena Dunham]

I was already in our shared account in which we were getting unkind DMs. And I was like, why? For us. We're beautiful, nice girls. Why would anyone want to write to us that way? Why would anyone want to treat us that way?

[Amanda Hirsch]

You've been just. Since I was introduced to you was just obsessed. I love your voice. I love your thoughts. I obviously loved and love girls. It still speaks to me to this day. Like, I think about the quotes every day.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, it means so much.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It was a genius. And then I read your piece in the New Yorker.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

The whole thing. Sorry not to show off that I can read. You are, and I don't read.

[Lena Dunham]

You're a good reader. Are you not a big reader?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No. Do you hate me now?

[Lena Dunham]

No, of course not. I think it's great. I mean, my husband's read eight books, tops, and that's across a lifetime.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. I'm like, Twilight is my last one across.

[Lena Dunham]

Twilight. That big, chunky series.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Thank you.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, I truly love to read, but I don't have any value. It's just a thing I really love to do. It's not like I think. I not think. It's not like I think, oh, if you don't read, then you're a big dummy. Like, there's certain people who. People.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Are there dumb people who read 1000%. Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

Some of the dumbest people read.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Stop.

[Lena Dunham]

Of course.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, I didn't know. I thought that everyone that reads is smart.

[Lena Dunham]

That's. That's. I don't think anything anyone says is crazy. Except what you just said.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay. But circle.

[Lena Dunham]

Everyone who reads is smart. You know, reading smarter, reading. J.D. vance sitting there.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay, point made, you know, so don't read yet. Lena Dunham writes a piece for the New Yorker after. You haven't written something in a. In a bit, right?

[Lena Dunham]

I haven't written some. I was. Hadn't written something for New Yorker in a bit, so it's fun to be back in that space.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And it was so good. And it was so your voice that I love.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And could, like, just notate it. Like, so many. Like, I got chills at the line. The end. The end. I got chills, babe. You know what I'm talking about.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

First of all, no one can talk shit about my mother but me, which is true.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, wouldn't you be so angry if someone else.

[Amanda Hirsch]

What do you mean? Like, your husband or your. You know what I mean? Could not dare say, like, your mom didn't come over. Sorry.

[Lena Dunham]

What if my husband even tries to tell me something about who my mother. Like, I'll start the conversation if he wants to pick it up.

[Amanda Hirsch]

What do you want him to do then?

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, my God. If I'm saying something negative about my mom, it's like he can kind of go, like, he can nod seriously, and he can also comment on, like, that must be painful for you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

But he cannot make a comment about. He cannot pick up what I'm putting down and start talking about who she is as a person. That would be. I once had a friend, and my mom will know what I'm talking about because she was involved with this. I had a friend who kind of like, went up against my mom a little bit. And, you know, no one. No, no one wins in that fight.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I can't believe that.

[Lena Dunham]

I know we were, like, 18, but still, it was like. It was like my friend got fresh with my mom, and it's still notorious in our household. The mama always wins.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And also, I think it's like, even if my mom can be annoying now, like, and with old age, there are little traits that were cute once or more annoying.

[Lena Dunham]

Mother cannot.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right? But also, I'm like you. She raised me to who I am today. You know, like, there's still. Even if they can annoy you now, even more than in your entire life, you still look back, you know what a big deal it is to raise kids. And you, like, you don't get it. She gave me life.

[Lena Dunham]

That's how I also feel about my sibling. Like, I feel that my sibling. I'm like, do you know what a miracle it is? Like, the wars we've survived together, the things that We've seen together, like, the. The. There is nothing that my sibling could do. Like, you could come to me and just, like, lay out a series of the most egregious crimes throughout America, and I would just have to sit and be like, yeah, that's. That's my sibling. I don't know what to tell you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like, but they live far from you.

[Lena Dunham]

My brother now lives in Los Angeles, but I'm really excited because I'm gonna be in New York this summer. I'm having. Just as I dropped a piece about how I left New York.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, you're doing the play?

[Lena Dunham]

I'm doing. Well, we're working at a play, and I'm shooting a movie this summer, and so I'm directing a movie starring Ms. Natalie Portman.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, right.

[Lena Dunham]

Starring Sayas. At Long Island's own Natalie Portman.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Lena, first of all, can we be friends when you're in the city in the summer?

[Lena Dunham]

I'd love to be.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

Literally, I'd love nothing more. I want to be in my, like. Like, adult female friends who wear a great top. Matching top with under top. Like that era, like the matching.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Which didn't used to be cool, but it's back. Like, you have to match it.

[Lena Dunham]

I want to be in my era where I have, like, an adult where I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm meeting my friend. Her under top matches her over top, and she has a, like, kind of chunky earring. And her hair always smells amazing. You know, that's.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So that's what's going to happen this summer.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. I smelled your hair and I.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It was good for you.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, it was great.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay, we need to talk about the black Ha. The decision, the consistency, and the commitment.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you for noticing. Because I noticed it's been happening for a year. Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Because you have to. It's a.

[Lena Dunham]

It's a commitment, and it involves upkeep, and it involves. And it has involved a commitment to my hair and also a commitment to ruining my bathroom once every month.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Why you do it yourself?

[Lena Dunham]

Because I do it myself.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Why?

[Lena Dunham]

I don't know what came. I am.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, first of all, it's also the longest has. It's. Has it ever been this long in your life?

[Lena Dunham]

No. It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because also, when people. My fellow women who've been through menopause. Cause I went through early menopause. My other. My other menopausees, whatever we're supposed to call ourselves, will know that sometimes you have differences. Your hair falls out things happen with hormone changes. So my hair really thinned and then when it came back, it rocketed back.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Stop.

[Lena Dunham]

It rocketed back.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You got like a new head of hair.

[Lena Dunham]

I got a new head of hair and it was like super hair. Like, suddenly I felt like I had a rope coming out of my head.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It's literally insane.

[Lena Dunham]

It was like I had a rope coming out of my head. And so that was just a new era in terms of doing the die myself, I have like this. The instinct to save money at the wrong times.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

And I think it's like a. Coming from like a post war Jewish family. It's like things where you're like, why am I choosing?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Why would I pay money for this? I could buy it at Duane Reade. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

When I could buy this toxic dye at Duane Reade and slap it on my with a toothbrush.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Meanwhile, you're like making movies with Natalie Portman and you're like, have a first look deal with Netflix, but you're dying it at home in your kitchen.

[Lena Dunham]

That will. I'll never not think that everything's going to run out and I need to dye my hair at home in my kitchen. But then it's like. But then it's like, why am I ordering Postmates? And if I'm so intent, food doesn't count. Okay. Because if I'm so intent on saving money, why am I not cooking for myself?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Food doesn't count, though. I will. I. Okay, so I just got a Russian manicure for the first time.

[Lena Dunham]

Can you tell me what that is?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yes, I will.

[Lena Dunham]

Because I've been out of the country.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Because you've been what?

[Lena Dunham]

Out of the country?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Out of the country.

[Lena Dunham]

So I don't really know.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I wonder what they call it there. So there's a regular manicure, which you grew up in New York. You know, you could just walk in get it. Of course. So then everyone's like, you have to try a Russian manicure. So I went. And can you tell like that it's a different kind of manicure?

[Lena Dunham]

Well, I have to say I did look and go like, that's. Those are some of the most, like. It looks like they put like bonbon candies on each of your fingers.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Literally insane.

[Lena Dunham]

It looks like they. You know when like a grandma has like a thing of sweeties in her on her table, it looks like they put a single. In a good way, sucking candy on each of your fingers. Yes. It's gorgeous.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Perfect. So, I mean, how much does it cost? How much does it cost? You think? Do you remember how. How much was a manicure when you were growing up?

[Lena Dunham]

When I was in high school, it was $12. I think that manicure cost 150.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Correct.

[Lena Dunham]

Really?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Correct. Do you feel like you won the prize? Correct. Amundo.

[Lena Dunham]

Really?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And me, which is not as. And how long does it last?

[Amanda Hirsch]

So I think she was like, should I. You know, at the end they try to get you. And she was like, so should I schedule for three. For three weeks? I'm like, no, I want to see how long this lasts.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, don't try to.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You think I'm pre scheduling.

[Lena Dunham]

So what is different?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I'll tell you what's different. But I'll also tell you that I posted it, Javi. And then people were like, you'll never go back. And I'm like, it was $150. And in my mind, I'm so frugal about it. Yeah, so I get it. And then I'm thinking like, what will I order for dinner? Nobu for myself? You know, and then like, don't even look at how much it costs. So there's something about food versus any other. And especially self care where you're like, why do I need a massage? You know?

[Lena Dunham]

And my first instinct is always to offer myself the worst version of whatever's available. The version. The most cut rate version of whatever's available. Although I did. I don't dye my hair with like the. The lowest level. Like I dye my hair with the one that's from. That's called no bleach London. Which is like owned by a model. It's very. It's supposed to be. Have a better environmental imprint. I'm not going like full. I don't know what we were using.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like, I think you're not using peroxide.

[Lena Dunham]

That's exactly. I don't know what we were using in high school. I mean, I was using something called manic panic, which was actually a great dye.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I also did myself in high school.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh my God. I used manic pink manic panic dye. And it was actually great. It was like temporary and I bought it at Ricky's Beauty.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Babe. I grew up in the city too.

[Lena Dunham]

What street did you grow up on?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I grew up in Riverdale. You know, in the Bronx.

[Lena Dunham]

Of course. I love Riverdale.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I love saying the Bronx, cuz I think it's like JLo, cuz only people from New York know Riverdale.

[Lena Dunham]

You know Riverdale's beautiful.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, it's nice. But I went to high school at Beacon. Do you know it.

[Lena Dunham]

Of course I do.

[Amanda Hirsch]

All the, like, liberal kids with the protesting.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. So a lot. It was a lot of liberal kids.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And a lot of protests.

[Lena Dunham]

I know.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I was like, sorry, I can't make this one.

[Lena Dunham]

It wasn't the same as Dwight, which they called dumb white idiots getting high together. Do you remember that?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

Kids would be like, I go to Calhoun. You'd be like, okay, I go to Beacon. Cool. I go to Dwight.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, we were cool.

[Lena Dunham]

Dumb white idiots getting a high together.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I know. But I was always jealous of the LaGuardia kids because I was like, I should be there. They're not protesting. They're, like, acting.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, the LaGuardia kids were always, like, the most adult, the most serious, the most put together.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Where the. The Nicki Minaj and the Timothee Chalamet of the world were doing their thing. Aware Lourdes Leone went to LaGuardia.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, Lordis Leon.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Amanda Hirsch]

We'll be right back after the break. Happy July 4th weekend that just passed. I hope you had something nice to wear. Maybe you didn't. And if you didn't, that means you haven't been checking out quints, all right? Because I told you a million times, if you need a refresh to your wardrobe, you go to Quints. Okay? Because their clothes are just timeless. They're luxurious, they're elevated, and they're quality way beyond what you would expect for the price. We're talking about European linens. We're talking about washable silk dresses and skirts, soft cotton sweaters, versatile warm weather pieces that you're going to reach for again and again. Everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands. What they do is they work directly with top artisans and they cut out the middleman. And Quince gives you the luxury without the markup. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love everything that I have from Quince, from the bed that I have to the luggage to the linen to the cashmere sweaters. So give your summer closet an upgrade. With Quince. Go to quince.com/not skinny for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Quince Q U I N C E.com/not skinny. To get free shipping and 365 day returns. Again, that's quince.com/not skinny. Exciting day. Everybody simply has launched a new prebiotic soda. You guys know that I love sodas, and I love ones that come with a little something extra. It's not just good. But there's a prebiotic in it, right? So Simply Pop is the new juicy soda. There are five flavors. Pineapple, Mango, Yum Yum Lime, Strawberry, Citrus Punch, Yum Yum and Fruit punch. This is made with real fruit juice. Simply Pop supports gut health important and has 6 grams of prebiotic fiber, no added sugar and is sweetened with juices Monk Fruit Extract. This supports immune health with zinc plus vitamin C. Amazing. Simply Pop is flavor that pops. See what all the fizz is about. Simply Pop is the new juicy soda that happens when you combine the delicious real fruit flavors of simply with 6 grams of prebiotic fiber to support gut health. Go to Coke URL.com/simply pop to find out where you can try Simply Pop. Find Simply Pop and any of its five juicy flavors by visiting them online at Coke URL.com/pop that's Coke c o k e u r l.com/s I m p l y pop I told you guys this already and I'm so excited because the day has come for us Bachelor Nation fans. We've been anxiously awaiting the highly anticipated season 10 of Bachelor in Paradise. And the beach is finally back open, you guys. Jesse Palmer will be returning as your beloved host, and everyone's favorite bartender, Wells Adams is back to mix up some cocktails and dole out dating advice. Also joining this season is former Bachelorette Hannah Brown. She'll be making her debut as the head of Paradise Relations, where she'll help plan special experiences for those romantic hopefuls on the beach. What's actually insane this summer, guys, is they're shaking stuff up, okay? The young singles are going to be joined by golden Bachelor and Bachelorette alumni that will be crashing the beach. That's right, Both bold and gold singles will shoot their shot at love this season. They're going to be mixing and matching, and it's going to be absolutely insane. This is all taking place in a new tropical oasis in Costa Rica. With new compatibility challenges along the way that are certain to test even the strongest of connections, this season proves that only those willing to pay the price will find true love in paradise. Catch new episodes of Bachelor in Paradise Mondays at 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream the next day on Hulu. Hi, y'.

[Lena Dunham]

All, I'm Kinsey and I'm the host of House Guest podcast. I am a Gen Z. Want to be Martha Stewart meets Dolly Parton trying to live in a Nancy Myers movie. We talk all about life, relationships and navigating your 20s. I'd like to say I'm Multifaceted. I'm either waking up at 4am in the sauna, tending to my garden, or closing out the bars until 2am you just never know what you're going to get. It's either me at home in my house in Texas that I spend way too much time in, or in the studio with some pretty cool guests. You can follow us at thehouseguestspod and listen or watch all new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast or on YouTube.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And we're back.

[Lena Dunham]

I went to a high school in Brooklyn called St. Anne's which was a liberal. No grades. Call your teachers by their first name.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So was Beacon. You could have gone to Beacon fully.

[Lena Dunham]

I think it was actually very similar. And the. I met a guy my freshman year of college and he had gone to Beacon, I'd gone to St. Ann's and he was my, like, true, like, my freshman year of college. Unrequited love. And when we met, we had. I felt like we had had, like, very similar.

[Amanda Hirsch]

In my mind, I'm like, who is it? Like, I know it. Shut the fuck up. I had the biggest fucking crush on him. Are you fudgeing? Kidding me?

[Lena Dunham]

We had, like, a crazy thing that went on for years. Now he's straight.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I always wish he was. No, no. This is the craziest fucking thing, you guys.

[Lena Dunham]

It wasn't fully on. They're not getting on for years. This is crazy. It went on for years, Lena.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That is crazy.

[Lena Dunham]

What year did you graduate high school?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, he was a. Above me.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. So he's my.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Cause I was 2006. He was 2000.

[Lena Dunham]

I had a shared 18th birthday party.

[Amanda Hirsch]

He was the dream. He was a beetle. He was a beetle.

[Lena Dunham]

Most beautiful boy in the world. I saw him and I thought, my life is over. I'll give my life to you. The boy that I was in love with freshman year of college. You know who you are? You know who you are. Let's call you Pancakes for a nickname, because that was your nickname.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I can. I cannot believe what's happening right now.

[Lena Dunham]

I know. Most beautiful boy in the world. Beetle, let me tell you this story. Let me set a. Paint a picture for you, okay? I'm so happy that you got up and hit me with that, because it was. No, it was true. It was what needed to happen.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wade, was it the most? Like, when I asked you who it was, I thought you were going to say someone that I don't know.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, of course.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It was something that you said. Somebody that was my crush.

[Lena Dunham]

Of course. Because of Course we have similar tastes because of course. So. So one day I was standing outside my school, St. Anne's in like 11th grade. And I'm walking out and I just see this boy and he doesn't go to my school. Cause you know, I'm sure Bikin was the same. There's like 60 kids in our class, you know, all of them. And I see this boy and I'm like, that is the most beautiful. You know when you are in high school and you just think like, my life is over. I have been hit by a. Yeah, once you're an adult, you're like, okay, another male man, Male shaped person who's a man might end up with one of those. But back then I was like, I've been hit by the love arrow.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Because that's exactly the type that you could ever dream of.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh my God. Because I loved the Strokes and I loved indie videos.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I loved the Strokes. I went to every fucking thing. Fabrizio, marry me.

[Lena Dunham]

Fabrizio's sister was in my freshman of college class. And I'd always be like, what does it feel like to know Fabrizio? And she'd be like, he's my brother. And I'd be like, is he hot? And she'd be like, he's my brother. Like, I had a Strokes mouse pad.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I used to go to every stroke show.

[Lena Dunham]

I had a Strokes.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Who did she date? Somebody hot. Fabrizio Barrymore. Correct.

[Lena Dunham]

And Kristen Wiig.

[Amanda Hirsch]

They were so hot together. Anyway, okay, back to pancakes.

[Lena Dunham]

Okay, so pancakes. I see him outside of school. He's wearing like women. Back then you couldn't get skinny jeans for a boy. So he's wearing like women's boot cut jeans.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Corduroy maybe.

[Lena Dunham]

Corduroy. Kids worn band T shirt, hair across the eyes. And I think heaven. It's love. Love is happening right now.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Cause he's from Brooklyn. Duh. Because he's cool.

[Lena Dunham]

Cause he's from Brooklyn. Cause he's cool. I get to. Nothing ever happens again. He was waiting to pick up a girl that I knew from school. I see them walk away together. I find out they go to camp together. I think there's my chances, they're blown. I'll never know a man like that. Yeah, I go to the new school. It is. Cause I went to the new school. Eugene Lang College for one year before I transitioned to school.

[Amanda Hirsch]

We were talking graduated graduate high school.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, it's orientation for the freshman class of Eugene Lane College at the new school. Look around the cafeteria. Who is it?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Pancakes.

[Lena Dunham]

Pancakes. I'M like. So I go to him and I'm like, I saw you at Saint. Saint Anne's once. And he's like, oh, yeah. I went to camp with Sarah. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's cool. In college, you can do that. You say that you hang out every day from there on out. He was in a band, Jemima, who ended up being on Girls Night. We would follow his band around everywhere. She was hooking up with the other guy from his band. I was this. I was. Would follow him around. I would sit on, like, the amp that they were at their shows, at pianos. I went everywhere they went. He and I had a joint 19th birthday party. And he would, like, talk about his crushes. I'd talk about my crushes. But I didn't really have any crushes because I ached for pancakes.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And he didn't know.

[Lena Dunham]

He must have known because I followed him everywhere. Being like. Being like.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You were his groupie.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. And we were, like, best friends. And then we used to, like, sleep in the same bunk bed every night. Like, what are people doing freshman year of college that they can sleep in the same bunk bed? And the guy's like, do you have a crush on me or not? It's insane. So then that's why.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That's why I asked you if he might be gay. Because I was just like, maybe that's why he never looked my way.

[Lena Dunham]

No. Well, you. I would be. I would be gay if I never looked your way, too. That being said.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right. That's the only reason you're saying this.

[Lena Dunham]

But that being said, right then I decided to transfer schools. And right before I went away, I decided to, like, shoot my shot and be like, listen, it's now or never. Like, I. I love you, baby. And he. I remember, like, he was kind of. And we hung out all the time. We slept in the same bed, like, every night of every weekend. And I was like, hey, it's now or never. Like, I'm going away to college. You might never see me again. You're my guy. And he was kind of like, okay. And then he just kind of, like, ignored it and just wanted to keep being best friends. And it was a real point of pain for me. And so then I didn't really wanna be best friends anymore. Cause I was sad. And then he felt hurt that I don't wanna be best friends anymore. And I had to kind of be like, I can't be best friends because I feel these feelings for you. And it's very stressful to me that you just went. And he kind of was like. And then years later, I didn't see him for years and years and years. And a girl came up to me and she was like, I'm Pancake's ex girlfriend. And he said he thinks about you a lot. And that really made me feel good.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And that's it. So there was never a kiss.

[Lena Dunham]

You know, when you're like, maybe this. I always thought this happened to everyone, but maybe it didn't. I feel like there's a lot of guys that I liked where I'm like, we kind of touched the edges of our lips together. But like, I would not say there was a full on kiss. I would say there was like a kind of like we're both in. We're in bed and we're both like, kind of drunk and it's freshman year of college and we're like, you know, like a kind of like what you would do with your gay uncle. Clearly.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Are you sure he. Are you sure he's into women? I'm asking one last question.

[Lena Dunham]

He's into women.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Married.

[Lena Dunham]

Whatever he's doing now, he's.

[Amanda Hirsch]

We need to stalk him after this.

[Lena Dunham]

I'm gonna help you to see that he is not into men. That's not the issue. The issue was me, unfortunately, and you the issue.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I never said anything. I was us.

[Lena Dunham]

I know a couple women that he was into and it was like a specific type.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I know what it is.

[Lena Dunham]

What do you think it is?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Mousy? Tiny?

[Lena Dunham]

Kind of. Yeah, like, it was a kind of. It was a kind of ethereal, like, indie goddess.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, okay.

[Lena Dunham]

You know what I mean?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

And I never was able to fit that bill. I tried.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So do you like Jemima? She's kind of that.

[Lena Dunham]

She. She. I think she scared.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I think the thing about Jemima is she is an ethereal indigenous. But what's so cool about it, but with the personality of like, Bette Midler, you know? So she fills both caucosians and that's why she's so special.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I cannot believe we had the same high school crush. You're gonna turn 39 this year.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. How old are you turning?

[Amanda Hirsch]

37.

[Lena Dunham]

You're a baby.

[Amanda Hirsch]

We're like, literally the same.

[Lena Dunham]

I'm like, they're tiny. You're a child. I'm turning 39 in less than a week.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, that's crazy.

[Lena Dunham]

I know.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And you're a Taurus. Do we align with being a Taurus?

[Lena Dunham]

What are you?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I'm a Gemini.

[Lena Dunham]

Okay. I'm a Gemini. Oh, what day is your birthday?

[Amanda Hirsch]

31St. What's his?

[Lena Dunham]

June 9th. Yes. I feel deeply connected to being a Taurus. Almost upsettingly so. Really? Do you feel connected to being a Gemini?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, I want to get tattooed, but like, it's kind of lame now, I think, honestly. What about your tattoos?

[Lena Dunham]

I mean, I'm covered and all my tattoos are things I decided to get literally that day. Thank God. So I actually don't think there's any tattoo you can get that's uncool. Like if you have the thought and then do it.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. So you don't regret them. There's such a thing now where everyone's lasering them off.

[Lena Dunham]

I feel delighted with everyone. I have good ones, I have bad ones. I wouldn't laser a single one off. And some of them are really bad. I mean, I have one. I have a money sign on my middle finger and a cap. It's a green money sign. And a capillary broke while it was being tattooed. And so it looks like my ring turned my finger green. No, but it's just permanently that way. Like that's so stupid. But like, why not keep it?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. Doesn't bother me.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. It's just my body.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I have like an ohm. Remember when ohms were cool?

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like, I got an ohm.

[Lena Dunham]

Ohm. Shanty. Great religion.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. Love it. I got my college dorm room on my neck.

[Lena Dunham]

What's your that? What room?

[Amanda Hirsch]

318.

[Lena Dunham]

Did you love your dorm?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I loved my dorm.

[Lena Dunham]

Wait, what, what college was this?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Ithaca.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, yeah. Ithaca is gorgeous.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, Ithaca is gorgeous.

[Lena Dunham]

It was. And what was the name of the building?

[Amanda Hirsch]

It was Talcott.

[Lena Dunham]

I think we had a Talcott at Oberlin.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You did?

[Lena Dunham]

We had a Talcott as well. And they must have been.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And I'm like, what happened in that room, you fucking nerd? Like, it wasn't that crazy. But I was like, this is crazy, crazy. You know?

[Lena Dunham]

You know, I had big feelings about. I remember we lived in like 102 in Fireland's dorm. And I remember being like, yeah, like, great. It's great that you have that.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It's great. The Jews don't love it.

[Lena Dunham]

My grandmother was like, who cares? Yeah, she was like 95 and like, who cares?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I know I got asked about it somewhere. Like, you know, a know it all. Jewish seven year old was like, yeah, I know that you can't get buried. And I was like, I think they changed.

[Lena Dunham]

That's such a good impression of like a Jewish seven year. A seven year old at your cousins friend's bat mitzvah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Who's mean.

[Lena Dunham]

Mean and has a lot to say. Yeah, there's always one. I mean, I have a tattoo on my foot that's a rosary. Like, remember when, like, Harris Hilton or Nicole Richie had, like, rosaries tattooed on their feet? I have that. Except instead of a cross, it has pills.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I'm dying. You know why? First of all? Because, like, we're the same. And because, like, when I used to see.

[Lena Dunham]

Cause we both love Mr. Pancakes and our college dorm.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And when I got into tattoos, I only have, like, five, but when I started discovering them, I was like, if I was Christian, the first thing I would get would be across.

[Lena Dunham]

I was like, what do I like? I was like, that's how I feel. And then I was like, what do I love? The way Christians love the cross.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Pills.

[Lena Dunham]

I was like, pharmacology? No, modern pharma. Pharmacological science.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I can't wait. What age Was that, honey?

[Lena Dunham]

35. No, like, I was not young enough for that to be. Okay. Most of my tattoos.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Do you feel that way still, though? Are we into pharmacological?

[Lena Dunham]

I mean, I'm a sober person, but, like, yes. Like, I'm really glad to have my medicine. I'm really glad to have my, you know, allergy medication and my antidepressant.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, yeah, that is true. But you're sober.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes, have been for almost eight years.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Eight years.

[Lena Dunham]

Seven and a half years.

[Amanda Hirsch]

How is that?

[Lena Dunham]

It's, like, the best thing. Here's the thing. For me, it's. I have. I'm like. The way I feel about being sober is the same way I feel about being a vegetarian, which is, like, it's the right thing for me. I have no. Like, if you want to eat meat around me, if you want to get drunk. Right. Like, it's all good, but, like, for me and for the clarity that I need to live my life, for my health, for my particular way of moving through the world, it's the right thing for me, but it's not. But not in a didactic. Here's information about how you ought to live. It's like, considering the set of circumstances of my life, it's the best analogy I can find for it. But for me as a person who's dealt with, like, who. As a person who deals with chronic pain, anxiety, for me, it's, like, better to just have all of the ability to tap out that alcohol or drugs or whatever gives you off the table.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Do you have any, like, bad habits that you kept?

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, I chew Nicorette.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay. You know that I got some because I wanted my husband to stop smoking, so I got him that. Meanwhile, like, I smoke it. I smoke at the end of the day. Like, house of car, House of cards. Like, what's his name? He's canceled now. Kevin Spacey.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, he's canceled now. Could be I could have been like. Like, big quit trivia game where I just start screaming the names of men who are canceled to have smoked. And there's like 52 of them.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So, you know, they share that cigarette at night. I don't have the addictive. Like, I can smoke one a night. Feel, like, good about it, but he's become gross, so I got him to correct.

[Lena Dunham]

And he smokes a lot.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Smokes a lot. And did you know.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That, like, there is a whole health movement where it's good for you, especially the gum. Did you. Did you hear this?

[Lena Dunham]

What's the gum could it be doing for you? What the gum could it be doing for you? So.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So here's the thing, cuz.

[Lena Dunham]

I love it, but what could it be doing for you?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Healthy? Call my mom, who's like a health guru right now. She'll be like, great, Lena, keep chewing. That's what she'll say. So apparently the nicotine by itself can have health benefit. The smoking with the smoke and, like, going into your lungs and all. We don't want that, but good. It might be. Did you get, like, the flu this year?

[Lena Dunham]

No. No, I didn't.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You know, the conspiracy theorists. Like, this is how conspiracies start. You know why you didn't get the flu?

[Lena Dunham]

Because I chew Nicorette.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I didn't get Covid this year either, actually. And it's the first year I didn't get Covid, so.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Nicorette.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. Because I've had Covid a lot of times before that. Nicorette.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And by the way, I have a family member who has cancer, and she's in Israel, and she asked me to send her because she read this research, too. It's not made up. She read this research, too, so can.

[Lena Dunham]

You send me some?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I send her Nicorette. I sent her the gum.

[Lena Dunham]

This is blowing the weirdest. Like, this is blowing my mind. Someone's like, we have to smack a Joe Rogan warning on this podcast because you're, like, spreading Nicorette misinformation. But, like. Like, please do not. But I. That is. I. Cause I did have a brief moment where I was smoking during the pandemic. During that. Yeah. And I was like, the world is ending. Who cares?

[Amanda Hirsch]

And then I was like, and until then, you didn't.

[Lena Dunham]

No, really. Who doesn't smoke until they're 33 then.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Well, that is weird because you did talk about in the New Yorker how, like, you're. You're. You weren't the typical kind of New Yorker, even though people thought you were. Cause Hannah was kind of obsessed with New York. But, like, everyone smoked cigarettes in my high school.

[Lena Dunham]

It's so wild, because same with me.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And I was the kid who was like, you're all gonna get lung cancer. Like, I was a kid who literally, and this is a fact, like, printed when all my kids wanted to do my kids. I'm calling them my kids. Cause that's how old I felt. All my friends wanted to do my friends. They're like, we weren't her friends. They wanted to do ecstasy. And I printed out literature that I found on the Internet that was like, this will drain your spinal fluid. And eventually, like, wait, so you didn't.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Do drugs in high school?

[Lena Dunham]

I smoked weed one time in high school.

[Amanda Hirsch]

This is crazy.

[Lena Dunham]

I was such a late bloomer. I smoked weed one time in high school. Did it a block from home, went to the local d', Agostino, ran into my mother, and then was so embarrassed and wanted to be rescued from myself so badly that I screamed at the top of my lungs. I have the munchies. I have. And she was like, is there something you're trying to tell me, Lena?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Okay. You have to come home now. They were like. My parents were like, oh, God. Only time I smoked weed in high school. Didn't really start having any really, like, physical relationships until I was pretty much, you know, in my. I was about to say double digit. Definitely double digit. In my 20s, early 20s, you know, what's a drinker?

[Amanda Hirsch]

So people were doing it around you.

[Lena Dunham]

Did you do drugs in high school?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

What was. What kinds of drugs were happening at your high school?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I want to tell you what was happening.

[Lena Dunham]

I want to know really bad.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay, so first of all, I beacon a lot. A lot.

[Lena Dunham]

Beacon was a bad girls school.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I got into cars with drug dealers at 15.

[Lena Dunham]

There was a drug dealer named Bike that I got into a car with regularly. And then one day. And Bike drove a car. And then one day, where are you, Bike? And then one day, a man comes up.

[Amanda Hirsch]

He's like, this is one. This is when you know it's the best podcast. This is my first slide. Like, I didn't even transfer.

[Lena Dunham]

One day a guy who shows up is, like, six times bigger than Bike. And my friend.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, what were you doing if you didn't do drugs? Just hanging out with him.

[Lena Dunham]

I was just with my friend who was buying the drugs. I was always, like, here to check here to make sure everything's okay. And my friend Chris was like, what are you, the guy who ate Bike? Because Bike, like, did you know, like, you'd call one lot number, and then whoever came, came.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I had Mike White. That was my guy.

[Lena Dunham]

Mike White.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Mike White.

[Lena Dunham]

And now he created White Gloves.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, no. Yes. Oh, my God. It's the same name. Yeah, but he was called Mike White for a different.

[Lena Dunham]

Because he had cocaine.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, no, he was White Mike. Sorry.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, White Mike.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, because of the cocaine.

[Lena Dunham]

White Mike.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So then I remember calling for my friends and being like, we want it. And, like, whatever. And then he was like, hey, I'm gonna be on the corner of, like, 110th in Amsterdam. Whatever.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I go. And I'm like, I'm in the sweater. Like, are you okay? My mom, meanwhile, is like, when are you coming back home? And I'm like, in the car with White Mike. Like, in the car.

[Lena Dunham]

In the car with Bike. And I wasn't even doing drugs with Mike.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No. In New York. So do you see now? Like, and I did. So I did that. And I did mushrooms. Shrooms.

[Lena Dunham]

I.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Mushrooms. Ages, me. Mushrooms.

[Lena Dunham]

I did. I know. Shrooms is what I did. We called them mushrooms, too. I didn't do mushrooms till I was in college. I didn't do cocaine till I was in college. And I only done cocaine, like, two times in my whole life. And both.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I remember when Hannah did it. Did you have the same kind of experience, like Hannah?

[Lena Dunham]

Well, when I had to do it on the show, yeah. I was doing such a bad job acting high, that Jenny had to pull me aside and be like, that is not really how people on cocaine, like, Jenny and. And a couple other writers were like, you're kind of acting like, not like a person on cocaine. Because I hadn't even. I don't think the couple times they did, I even successfully snorted it up. I was more of a pharmacist. Like, I always liked something that felt safer in a pharmacy.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You know what we did in high school, we used to take, like, a. Somebody's mom's, like, muscle relaxants and snort it.

[Lena Dunham]

So I will tell you, when I did drugs. Yeah, that was what I liked. When someone would be like, I brought my mother my grandma's Xanax back from Boca. That was like, I feel Safe. Like if Bike. If bike handed everybody a drug, I was like, we can't test this. We don't know what this is. Is this going to drain our spinal fluid? Good for you guys. Glad you're sick. Glad everything's good with Bike. Not for me, but when someone was like, you know, my grandmother, we went into my grandmother's bathroom and she has this, you know, leftover from her dental surgery.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Then you were. You felt safe.

[Lena Dunham]

That's exactly.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Is it because it's like, from a doctor?

[Lena Dunham]

I think there's a thing, especially in Jewish communities where you're like, if it's from a doctor, it's okay. And it's interesting. I've really had to be disabused over the last 10 years of recognizing that doctors are not always right.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right. Oh, my God. We'll be right back after the break. I know I sound like a broken record when I say this, but it is so true. You need protein in your diet, you guys. Protein, protein, protein. That is the name of the game. And for me, it's super helpful to have a go to protein powder because in one scoop, there's 20 grams of protein, okay? So if you don't feel like eating an egg, eating a chicken, and you just want something easy and on the go, you make a protein shake or you add it to your favorite yogurt or smoothie or whatever. And let me tell you which protein powder I am using. It's called Clean Simple Eats. It's cleanest, it's best tasting, and it's just amazing. It's always grass fed, no seed oils, no artificial ingredients. Third party tested, non GMO and gluten free. Each serving, like I said, has 20 grams of protein. It's incredibly creamy and smooth and I just love it. I also use the chocolate flavor in hot water and I make like a hot cocoa and it's so good. Like I said, I've been in a protein journey lately and Clean Simple Eats has saved me. It's so delicious and it's such an easy way to get 20 grams of protein. I eat. Visit cleansimpleats.com use my code not skinny20 at checkout for 20 off your first order. That's clean Simple Eats. Com. My code is not skinny 20 for 20% off your first order. The link will also be in my show notes. Is it just me or have you noticed that every single thing you buy or purchase or whatever has a fee? Cleaning fees for weekend rentals, processing fees. What are you processing? What are you processing? Fees are everywhere. And they really hurt the most when you're trying to save money. So that's why I'm here to tell you about Chime. Chime offers fee free banking. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees. Sign up [e-mail] not skinny. Listen, banking shouldn't cost you money. You're already putting your money there. You're given a bank your money to keep safe. Help me help you. Your bank should help you help them all right. You shouldn't be paying extra fees already. It's like, say thank you. I'm putting my money here. I'm trusting you with this, okay? Bank fees can really be such a hurdle on getting ahead or saving up. So fee free. Banking with Chime really makes your life so much easier. There are no monthly fees. There are no overdraft fees. There are no minimum balance requirements. And it is super duper easy to open an account. It takes two minutes at chime.com/not skinny. That's chime.com/not skinny. Chime feels like progress.

[Lena Dunham]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members fdic spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees. Apply it out of network ATM ranking and number of ATMs according to US News and World Report, 2023 Chime checking account required.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Listen, I've said this before. Am I a little bit happy that I'm not pregnant right now? Yeah, I am. Because it's summer and it's hot. If you're chugging along a pregnancy, if you're six, seven, eight months pregnant, I feel you girls. It's hard to be pregnant in the summer, but you can do hard things. And one of the things that was most important to me to keep up with when I was pregnant and something that isn't hard is to take a prenatal supplement so important when you're pregnant. My doctor actually reminded me all the time. And I was like, I know. I'm taking ritual. Thank you. You need a prenatal, you go to Ritual. Their mom founded their third party tested for heavy metals and microbes. And they shared the sources and suppliers behind their key ingredients. Ritual offers tailored nutrient support for key phase of pregnancy. From fertility support formulated to support conception outcomes to their essential prenatal, which is what I took and postnatal multis to support key nutrient needs before, during and after pregnancy. I love ritual. I also love the fact that Their supplements never made me, like, burp up. You know, if you get nauseous when you're pregnant, you know, it's so hard to find a supplement to take that you're not. Like, I'm gonna throw up. When it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency. Mom founded Ritual, puts in the work and shows you the proof. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/not skinny. That's ritual.com/not skinny for 25% off. And we're back. Wait. Okay, so let's go back to the New Yorker piece where you. It's basically a goodbye to New York in a way.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, like a.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like a retroactive goodbye because you left a few years.

[Lena Dunham]

It's like, we had a really good run, and I'm glad that I can come back and have these spells with you, but I'm also really glad I figured out that this isn't the only place in the world.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Do you feel like. By the way, when I was searching for it, the. The. The piece that came up above, it was somebody being like. Like, the Guardian wrote, like, a response to it, I think.

[Lena Dunham]

You know what's so funny? My friend Nikki, who takes care of my dogs and cats when I travel, sent that to me, and I was like, this couldn't possibly be good. And then I opened it, and he was like. Like, not sure if you saw this. And I was like, this is going to be so mean. He just didn't read it yet. And then it was actually pretty nice. It was just a woman being like, I moved back to London. Maybe you'll want to.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Maybe you'll want to die here.

[Lena Dunham]

It was interesting. You may. I might want to go back to New York to die.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. What did you think about that?

[Lena Dunham]

I'm like, I don't know. I mean, this planet's going to be a burning. Yeah, it's going to be a burning tire by the time we die. I'm not sure where I want. I'm not totally sure where I want to die yet.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Where do you think you want to die?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I don't want to. I don't want to think about it. I'm way too anxious to think about that. That's why that woman writing that. It freaked me out.

[Lena Dunham]

I think about it every day. You don't think about it all the time. Every day I'm like, what's it gonna feel like? Where am I gonna be?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, I can't think about it. I can't it makes me too anxious.

[Lena Dunham]

But we all have our way.

[Amanda Hirsch]

But I will say, I can't think about tomorrow. I'm like. I'm like, I don't know if I can renew my rent. Like, I don't know if I'll be here. And people are like, where are you gonna go? I'm like, I don't know. You know?

[Lena Dunham]

You know who?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I never know. So. But you.

[Lena Dunham]

Your husband like that too? Or does he like to think about.

[Amanda Hirsch]

He just does what I say.

[Lena Dunham]

Such a good answer.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, because, like, I met him in Israel. He's fully Israeli.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And I was like, we're gonna move now. You know? He was like, in Haifa, in the small town. I was like, we're gonna move to Tel Aviv. Me, I was in Israel on a trip after a college.

[Lena Dunham]

Do you just see him and go, what a hunk?

[Amanda Hirsch]

He was actually. Pancakes reference. The first time I saw my husband, he was wearing a little, like, fedora.

[Lena Dunham]

Type hat, which was. Guys, for anyone who's younger and doesn't understand. That was really cool then.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like, so cool.

[Lena Dunham]

It might not seem good right now.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

It might seem stressful.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And he had, like, sideburns.

[Lena Dunham]

Also cool then. Yeah. You're naming everything that was hot then.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I used to hang out at Union Square on the steps and watch a bunch of pancakes, like, skateboard, like, and. But you know what's so funny? And I wonder if this happened to you, because obviously we had the same type. Did you ever actually, like, date somebody that is that appearance? Because I always thought that was my type, but those kind of guys were never into me.

[Lena Dunham]

You know what's funny? I always thought that was my type. They weren't into me. I was into them. I was chasing these, like, indie sleaze dream boys.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

It was feeling me. I loved an indie boy. And now my husband, if you look at pictures of him from that time, like, I would have. I would have chased him across nine continents, and he would. I would have chased him across interstellar style. Up, down, and all around just to hold his hand for five minutes. He. So was the apotheosis of what I thought.

[Amanda Hirsch]

He still is like a musician.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh. I mean, he's the cutest thing I ever saw in my life. He's a beautiful.

[Amanda Hirsch]

How did you meet him?

[Lena Dunham]

We met on a blind date. My friend. Our. My friend Honor set us up. And it was. So you saw your husband and he was wearing a fedora?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

And did you say.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I said, like, who's that? And someone was like, weiss, like, they said his last name. Cause he went by that, and I thought that was his last name. Fuller. What's his name? Weiss.

[Lena Dunham]

And they were like, that's Weiss?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. But I asked about him. Cause I saw the fedora in the crowd.

[Lena Dunham]

The fedora in the crowd?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Cause you're dead. I don't get it.

[Lena Dunham]

The fedora in the crowd is your romance novel.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, the fedora in the crowd.

[Lena Dunham]

Okay.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, my God. That's beautiful.

[Lena Dunham]

It's beautiful. And we'll write it together and then we'll read it together. My husband and I met because I was in London and I was there for work and I had to be on a. It was Covid and I had to be on a quarantine. And I was talking to. I have two straight male friends. Literally shout out to Honor and Jesse. I have another one named Teddy. But. But like, that's how few and far between that I can name them all on this podcast. And they were talking to me and they were like, how is London going? And I was like, it's not going. I'm in a mandatory 14 day.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, that's awful. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Inside of my apartment quarantine. And they were like, well, have you met anyone? I was like, how? I'm in a mandatory. Inside my apartment 14 day quarantine. And I was sad about a boy who had hurt my feelings and a man. A man who had hurt my. Someone once pointed out that I call all men boys. I was like, I can't help.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I kind of love it.

[Lena Dunham]

I can't help it. So then my friend Honor suggested that he send out like a kind of all points bulletin to his like, like, dude network. Being like, my friend's in London who wants to like, show her what's what in this Covid world.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And I sort of relented, thinking this is like, at best gonna be nothing. At worst gonna be really embarrassing, but nothing. And at best gonna be maybe amusing for a night. And then he told me that I should have, like, take a walk with. With this guy. And it turned out to be my husband.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That's crazy.

[Lena Dunham]

Isn't that crazy?

[Amanda Hirsch]

You should do that. Well, you said you're not on Instagram, but there's this thing. What. What's the. How does that reel start? Little did she know she would then meet her husband. Like, there's a thing now there's a trend. It's not little did she know what's. If only she knew, like, it would be you in London in quarantine. In a mask. This is what the trend would be.

[Lena Dunham]

And it'd be like, if only she knew, two days later, she would meet her husband.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Exactly.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. It'd be like a picture of me lying on the floor. I'll give you this one. Taking a sexy selfie of myself holding a thing of Crest toothpaste.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Sending it to who?

[Lena Dunham]

This guy who had hurt my feelings, who loved Crest toothpaste. Again, you know who you are. And him being like, no. And then. So that picture.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Little did you know, little did you.

[Lena Dunham]

Know she would meet her husband. And then I remember, like. Like, three days into knowing him, he was like, you use Crest?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No.

[Lena Dunham]

He was like, gross.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, he's like, organic.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. He was like, get it out of here.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh.

[Lena Dunham]

He was like, we're getting. And he uses. Like that.

[Amanda Hirsch]

What did he use?

[Lena Dunham]

He's a Marvis guy. Do you know that? Fancy Marvis?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No.

[Lena Dunham]

He's very British. You can get it at, like, Bigelow and some other places. I use is. I use it. I'm, like, more of a Toms of Maine girl. Like, that's what I grew up, like, strawberry vibe. I grew up on the strawberry. That's what we had as kids because we weren't allowed to use, like, deodorant with any aluminum. We weren't allowed to use toothpaste. We had to use.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Because your parents are, like, hippies. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

So they would, like. My mother was always like, you can either have the option of Toms of Maine deodorant or, like, a deodorizing crystal kind of thing.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, my God.

[Lena Dunham]

I remember writing to my parents from. From Girls Summer Camp and being like, I need deodorant. And my mom sending me, like, one of those crystals and getting made fun of. But that's okay. It's not a formative trauma.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, no. It's just crazy that, like, they were so early on it.

[Lena Dunham]

They were really early on it. And I remember. You remember all the girls were getting, like, the Dove. Like, the Teen Spirit, of course. And, like, dove and stuff. And I was like, mom, I need teen spirit. And she was like, what do you want? Armpit cancer? Armpit kits? And she was like, really? You wanna have your armpits removed?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, so what? I just need to be in the. In Teenage Lena that we have the whole picture of the St. Ann's and the pancakes and the. And the bike and the getting in the car and. And being the one that doesn't do the drugs. So how does that girl do tiny furniture then? Do girls, like, how how did. How did that happen?

[Lena Dunham]

Well, I think I was always like. And maybe you were like this little bit. I mean, you sound like you were a really fun party animal and I would have loved to be around you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You would have came with me in the car.

[Lena Dunham]

And also you remind me of like sometimes I would go on like a summer program or like a, like a two week, like theater camp, or like I once took like a three week, like, trip to Cuba with like a, like an exchange program trip to Cuba. And there was this like one like, girl who kept like pulling guys off the street into our bus to make out.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Am.

[Lena Dunham]

I don't know. But there was always one like, really fun, funny, bold girl where I was like, I'm gonna be her. We're never gonna lose touch. She's my. The best person. I'm going to change my personality. This is who I am now. And then inevitably, like, she goes back to in San Francisco and like, I returned to being the girl who follows everyone around while they talk to bike. And you know, I think, like, I think a lot of people feel this way as writers, which is I was always an observer and I was always a person who liked to be around it, but not doing it and bearing witness to it, but not right up against it. And that was always really important to me and also a big part of just my instinct. And so I think the fact that I wasn't always the center of the action, but I was around the action. Yeah, I wasn't the one who was getting Pancakes, but I was the one.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Who was like on the amp.

[Lena Dunham]

On the amp, watching Pancakes. Yeah, Like, I was in that thing you do and then spoffing.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You were in that thing you do. I love that.

[Lena Dunham]

So sad, all of that. I can't wait to show you where Pancakes is after this. But to all of that was a really material. Yeah, it was material and it all built up. And I think sometimes the person who is. And you might feel this way. Like the person who is the most popular person lives at the center of it is the action, is the it girl is the moment. Like, that's their expression. That's what they're doing. And so for me, writing, making films and television, that for me is my expression. Like, I don't have that deep social expression today. A friend of mine referred to me as a hermit and I was like, I don't like that. That's a little sharp. But.

[Amanda Hirsch]

But like, because what, you don't like to go out a lot?

[Lena Dunham]

I don't like to go Out a lot. I don't like to be. I. I find like, go. I turn into a pumpkin pretty early. But I like, I would say more homebody than hermit.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah. Do you want people to come over?

[Lena Dunham]

I love when people come over.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

And I love coming over to people.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

But I would say, but it's like really, like, do you feel like you. I get a feeling from you that you're an extrovert, not an introvert.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I think I'm an extrovert, but I don't like going places, so.

[Lena Dunham]

But you would be delighted if people were over at your house all day chatting.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No. No.

[Lena Dunham]

You like time alone. How much time alone do you like?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I don't know, Lena. I haven't thought about it really.

[Lena Dunham]

But you've thought about everything.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay. How much time alone do you like?

[Lena Dunham]

A lot.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Really?

[Lena Dunham]

Well, I love to be with people at work and I love to be with people in a, like the context. But then. Yeah, but then I want, I don't know, every day, like.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, okay, okay, I'm talking, I'm talking.

[Lena Dunham]

I want to have at least three hours at the end of the day, whether it's to write or to read or to, you know, drink a bubble tea that's just completely unfettered. I don't mind if it's with my pets, but other people talk or if it's quiet time with someone I love. But I.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It's very specific.

[Lena Dunham]

I need to be able to close my eyes and open them again. And so sometimes if people are over or if we're together, there's some pressure to that. I really value when I have a friendship where we can have that kind of time together.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And the best friends are the ones that you cannot see for a long time and then kind of hang out again.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. Or you can hang out with and you don't have to talk.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, the best. I have actually a friend that, like, it's not even that we vibe that hard, but we do have that comfort where we could just not talk. And that doesn't ha. I'm like, there must be something here if we can just hang out, you.

[Lena Dunham]

Know, of course, parallel play is what my mom calls it, but I do.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I. I won't talk about how you created girls because I feel like me and you could do a four hour podcast. But we do need to talk about the importance of it and how it's trending still after all these years, like, tick tock is eating it up. Are you aware, you know, I'm the voice of my Generation is a trending sound.

[Lena Dunham]

It's crazy to me. I have. I will admit. I admitted it. I've admitted it before. TikTok is the only. Because I don't have my own ins. I mean, I don't have the password to my own Instagram account. I don't have the password to my own. I mean, I don't use X. I don't have Instagram. I don't have Facebook, those things. But I have a, like, ghost burner TikTok account because I love. Do you like watching TikTok?

[Amanda Hirsch]

I don't actually.

[Lena Dunham]

See, that's. But do you like using Instagram?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

See, I just like. I like TikTok because I feel like it's a chance to know where the youth is at random things. Like, I don't. And so sometimes it'll pop up.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

The. That sound. And it's in a totally random context.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And it's so sweet. Like, I'll see, like, a really cool sex worker in Australia using a sound from girls, and I follow her totally separately because of a great video. And I. And I feel so happy, you know.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That Zosia was on my show. That's not how you say her name. Zasha. Rewind. It's so hard.

[Lena Dunham]

Here's the thing. I'll tell you. We call her Z.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay?

[Lena Dunham]

So you don't have to worry.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Never again.

[Lena Dunham]

Zasha, it took me years.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You say I'm trying so hard to say right that I say it wrong.

[Lena Dunham]

I agree. And it's also. You just have to remember it's just Sasha with a Z.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It's Sasha with a Z. So she was on.

[Lena Dunham]

She was great. I listened to the episode. It was great.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You did?

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. I've listened to your show before.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay. I know. I'm shocked.

[Lena Dunham]

I love it. I love you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I love you.

[Lena Dunham]

You're a cultural figure in your own right. I told you that. I said to my father this morning.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I know.

[Lena Dunham]

I was like, papa, I'm going on a podcast. That's why my hair's done. And he was like, what podcast? And I said, it's called Not Skinny and not Fat. And he, like, kind of looked at me, and he was like, seems like a good podcast for you. And I think he thought he was being really nice. Like, well, you're not fat.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

And you're not.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You took it as a compliment.

[Lena Dunham]

And he's really in his, like, body positivity era. He's really in his. Like, every role on you is just right. Like, he's really dry. So he thought it was a chance to support the movement.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And you're like, not that. Never mind, never never mind. We don't have to worry. So Zasha was on. Told her about the. The thing with her and girls is that the. The tick tock generation is having a revelation that, like, she was the most, like, the best character.

[Lena Dunham]

Best character, most enlightened.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right, Exactly. And we didn't know it, you know, and when. When we were watching, we thought she was annoying. We didn't get it.

[Lena Dunham]

Yep.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And she said on the pod that she has suggested to you a. A show spin off and that you weren't not on board.

[Lena Dunham]

No, I'm. Listen, I love Shoshana. I am on record as saying she is my favorite girl. I think she is the one with the most. Like, I think she's the one who's going to. Who is going places. Yeah, I think Shoshana's going places. And also, it's just such a joy to watch Zasha be her. So if there was, like, the right context for us to do it, I'd be fucking thrilled. And also to do anything with her. Like, and I have. We've already kicked around, like, we've all just kicked around jokingly where they would be now. And I kicked around some ideas with Zosh about, like, where we would find. With Zos about where. It was also always confusing because it was like Shosh and Zosh that it.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Is a little confusing.

[Lena Dunham]

But she would be such a brilliant. Like, she'd be so brilliant at revisiting it. And I just miss it. And I miss her. So anyway, I'm in.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You're in.

[Lena Dunham]

If I'm in and you're busy, how.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Does this busyness work? Because, wait, before that, Jemima, you were such good friends. Are you still close?

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. And I. She will always. I mean, we've been close since we were St. Ann's we met when we were. I was 11 and she was 12 when we met. So, like, whatever the. The kind of, like, we've been living in different places. Hilariously enough. Like, she came from England when she was 11 to New York.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Now she's in New York. Did she.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Did she think it was hilarious? Because I could see you being like, how funny that you're there and I'm here and then you're in New York and I'm.

[Lena Dunham]

And her being like, that's not funny at all.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

Literally, me being like, I'm in London, where you're from. And she's like, okay, lots of people are from There, Right? That's what I could see. And I did pass the school she went to as a kid and like, text her really excited me. I was like, I just passed the Herodian. She was like, so. But she will always be. And her family, Lola, Domino, her sisters, like, they will always be a really important part of my life and my story. And she also was such a big. Like, she really gave me the confidence also to start directing because to have your best friend, like, act and make you feel that you have what it takes. I didn't realize that she was kind of big upping me as a director at the time. I didn't realize that she was kind of with a wink and a nod, doing what I asked of her and giving me the honor and respect of like, performing my scripts. But she really is also a big part of giving me the confidence to do this.

[Amanda Hirsch]

People ask me, like, people ask me all the time, why wasn't pancakes and other people into you? And I say, I was too much. I just gave you that talk at lunch today. Cause she was talking about dating. And I said, listen, I went to college with these John Mayer fucking guitar people. I would be like, gross song. And then the Katies and the tiny little mousey people I know would be like, I want to die to that song. And like, he would date them. And I wouldn't get why he didn't date me, even though I was like, songs are trash. Like, I know, Whatever.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Too much. You're. You're almost new show. I mean now by this when it comes out. July.

[Lena Dunham]

It's coming out in July. Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Which I've watched some. And I'm so happy about it. I'm so happy about it. I'm so happy to see you and your work back on my screen because we need it. And it's just so you and so important.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And I. They sent me like five episodes and I. I'm so happy that in. That is. Is the episode where they discuss the Too much. Cause I feel like that's so. First of all, I love that it like, you know, the title actually relates to like a point in the show.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you.

[Amanda Hirsch]

But can I say what he says with the two months.

[Lena Dunham]

Of course you can.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So he's British, right? Cause it's kind of like a.

[Lena Dunham]

It's like my. I mean, it's very. There's a aspects of it that aren't. And there are aspects of it that are. But my husband and I created it and there's a lot of it that's Very close to our story of meeting and getting to know each other.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So she said, she's. She's you and he is your husband, but he's like, oh, you're too much. And she's like, I mean, I'm too much and you're. You're not enough. And then he says, no, I meant in a good way. Like, you're too much. Like in a. In a British kind of slang. Is that what it was like when you met your husband?

[Lena Dunham]

So when I met my husband, my mother, when I was a kid and blessed by my parents, they dealt with. I mean, I was a very eccentric kid, and they dealt with it with good humor. Like, I had. I had separation anxiety. I had ocd. I had physical health stuff. I had social stuff. Like, they were dealing with a lot. I was not giving them any peace. But my mother would always be saying, quiet down your voice. My mother would always saying, this is a little bit much. My father didn't wanna say, be quiet, so he started saying, sotto voce. Cause he thought it was more respect, respectful.

[Amanda Hirsch]

What.

[Lena Dunham]

What language is, like, quiet your voice down in Italian, Okay? It's like, basically what they say in, like, a. Like, fancy Italian opera.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Opera.

[Lena Dunham]

They're just, like, really, like, soft. It means, like, soft voices. So it's my father trying to be very sweet, which is. He doesn't want to be like, shut the fuck up. Yeah. So my parents were always finding ways to, like, kind of pull the reins of what my former analyst calls my wild horse energy. And so my husband, when we met, I would say things, and he would say, you're too much. You're too much. And I always. When he was saying it, I was contracting as if he was telling me to calm down, to chill out, to be less. And then suddenly I realized one night that what he was actually saying was, like, a real term of endearment. Because he would talk about other things and say, it's too much. It's too much. And I realized, oh, it means it's cute, it's sweet, it's lovely.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I love that.

[Lena Dunham]

And it really was like a small but big thing, which it gave me massive context and made me realize that, like, we are so conditioned to feel that our largeness, whether it's physical or emotional, it's like, how much time do we spend, not just as women, as people, like, trying to, like, tuck in our chins and rearrange our hair so it's like, kind of like covering this part of us and then, like, you know, sit up so you can't see your stomach, but then also have your voice be not too loud, but then also have your ideas be not too strong. And I didn't realize how much. Despite sort of being publicly consumed as a person who spoke their mind, I had fallen pray to all of that and then how much he was reprogramming me. And so I wanted to talk about that and also how many women I know who feel that way in dating and feel like they don't have any. They don't have any way to express themselves fully. And it's so sweet. Like, my. I've actually noticed that there is something. Like, my husband is. He's not just British, he's also Peruvian. And I think there's something about, like. Like, he is come. Like, there's something about his. What. I don't know what the deal is with his Peruvian heritage, but they really appreciate, like, they appreciate bigness and passion and enthusiasm.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Vibes.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. I've spent a lot of time now in Peru, and it's like they appreciate warmth and energy and intensity and big expressions of love and music and laughter. And, you know, I think that, like, the. And his family laughs big, and they love big. And I felt like I was a welcome. My energy was, for the first time, like a welcome.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And not too much to the room.

[Lena Dunham]

And not too much. And it's interesting that you had to go to Israel. Israel, which has, by the way, sim. Like, a lot. There are a lot.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Have you been.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes, I have. And the more you travel, the more you realize how many diff. Like, how much. Like, for example, the more I've realized, like, Jewish culture, Latino culture, Greek culture, Italian culture, like, there's these things that we. There's, you know, when you, like, meet people who are like, Moroccan culture, you meet these different places that all have this same vibe, which is like, for example, in America, you meet lots of immigrant families who have the same stereotype that the Jewish mother of the Jewish mother, which is like, big, noisy, loving, overbearing woman. That thing that, like, my mother occupies in our family is the same thing that my husband's mother occupies in their family. And so he was totally ready for me. And it's interesting that you felt like you had to go there.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, totally.

[Lena Dunham]

And that, like, these kind of, like, too cool for school, New York boys weren't necessarily getting it.

[Amanda Hirsch]

They weren't getting it. The girls can get it. I feel like the guy. The guys.

[Lena Dunham]

It's, like, different.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I don't know what it's like with American men, but I do say this, and I feel like I say this not as a joke. If you can't find someone here, fly on out.

[Lena Dunham]

I think everyone should try going somewhere else to date just because it's good for expanding your mind. Like, even if I hadn't met my husband, I would have been glad to. And by the way, I always say when people are like, should I go to London or all the guys there? I'm like, a lot of the guys there are really stiff and really straight because they're British.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

My husband happens to be British Peruvian. And so he was down to clown in a different way. Like, I went on a couple other dates with British guys, and I was like, this man's gonna die by the end of the night. Like, I'm gonna be the death.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right? Cause they're very. But okay.

[Lena Dunham]

Gonna have a heart attack at this breakfast date. But. But my husband happened to be the right person for it. But it was still good for me to go to another place and try whatever my shtick was, Right.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And then you can get a different response. Like, maybe it's like, if you're a.

[Lena Dunham]

Standup comedian, you wanna go test your act out at clubs across America. It's the same with dating. Same thing. Like, and also, if you look at it, if you're still single in your 30s as a woman, chances are you have been dating for 20 years. That's a long time to try something and not get the result you want.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

So you have to go try it somewhere else.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Try it somewhere else. I'm down with this. So, so you're now a married girly, and then you created.

[Lena Dunham]

And how long have you been married?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Since 2015.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, so you've been married for a long time?

[Amanda Hirsch]

No, I know. Child bride.

[Lena Dunham]

For my wedding, I literally dressed like a Madame Alexander doll. I was like, I'm such an old, decrepit, ancient bride at 35, I better wear a dress. Like a little doll at a pair of shorts.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Did you always wanna get married? Like, were you a fairy tale wedding kind of girl?

[Lena Dunham]

Like, I didn't want to be because I came from such a feminist. Like, my mom was literally part of a group called Wack Women's Action Coalition. And I was always like, my mom, like, wore like a. Like a pantsuit at her wedding and had, like, short hair. Like, it was not the energy of my home. But I love fluff. I love frills. I love. I always just wanted it. And I, like, I had like, four outfit changes at my wedding.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Oh, my God.

[Lena Dunham]

I don't wanna do this multiple times. And I want the chance to do.

[Amanda Hirsch]

This, to do it big, to do it big. I love that.

[Lena Dunham]

And it was really joyful. And luckily my husband loves like. Like when we, when we got engaged, he didn't get. He just asked. No engagement ring. And then I was finally, five days later like, so what about a ring? And he was like, well, you didn't get me a ring. He wanted to do everything like together together. And so when I had outfit changes, he got out for changes too. Yeah, he was really into it.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So when you say that he was your co creator on too much, like this is new to him, this world. Did you bring him in? You felt like you needed him to be part of it?

[Lena Dunham]

I felt like if I was gonna write something about especially like British culture, about someone who's not just like the character of Felix in the show, he's.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Not just British, played by Will Sharpay, which so good. And he's so in this character and so different from like the White Lotus and whatever else he did that it takes you a minute to like, you're like, oh my God, you know, he's an amaz. He's so good actor.

[Lena Dunham]

He's such a brilliant, talented, sweet man and such a talented writer creator. He, you know, I felt like to write a character, not just a British guy, but like a guy who is like mixed British and also has like one parent who's from a different country and is trying to figure out that confusion of being sort of like partially this upper crusty part of the, like someone who's trying to be part of like the grand British experiment, but also comes from another place. I needed my husband's input and ideas from the minute we met. I was like, you are as funny as a comedy writer. I really feel like you could do this like if we. Again, I was like, I know that you have only ever read eight books and somebody was pretty much reading them aloud to you, but do you think that we could just kind of organize your thoughts a little? And he was amazing. And he also just really help. I feel like writing men. I really love working with male actors. I really love trying to create nuanced male characters. But it was really helpful for me.

[Amanda Hirsch]

To have his pov. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Because at the end of the day, there are essential differences about the way that we have moved through the world that I think he was just able to really nail. And so, so yeah, he was. It was an incredible asset to me. If you love your job and you spend so much time on it. And it then it naturally takes you away from your partner.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

So it's so nice if life is built together. Yeah.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So you think, is he into it? He's gonna wanna keep doing stuff like this? Yeah, I think yes.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, that's great. I think he is. And I think he's really good at it, which just makes it extra special.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And there were so many cameos in this show.

[Lena Dunham]

We went cameo crazy.

[Amanda Hirsch]

We really did cameo crazy. And people that you've worked with, I feel like you like the people that you like.

[Lena Dunham]

I like to bring it back.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You really like to bring it back?

[Lena Dunham]

I really do.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Meg, who plays you in the show, she's the best. Which I. I love her from Hacks. It's so great.

[Lena Dunham]

Brilliant, special person.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And the decision to not play it, which I don't. You've. You've talked a lot about it, but to me, if that was the only reason, if there were more reasons. Do you get what I mean? Like, I hope that wasn't the only.

[Lena Dunham]

No.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

I think that was like, the quote. People are like, she doesn't want to play it. Because I think someone asked in an interview, did you want to play it? And I said, no, I didn't want to end. In addition, I think it's really hard to have received that level of physical criticism and want to step back on screen. But honestly, for me, it's that when you're in your 20s, if you want to write, if you want to direct, if you want to act, if you want to do it all at the same time. You have the energy, you have the time, you have the style. Now I'm an older lady, I've got a lot of different stuff to attend to. But also, as, you know, as you get into your 30s, like, you just. I did not realize in my early 20s, just how much energy and stamina I have. And so now, if I have.

[Amanda Hirsch]

We talked about it, when you walked in, I was like, lina, you're my third thing of the day. And only for you, I would do a third thing.

[Lena Dunham]

That's exactly right. But in your 20s, wouldn't you've probably done three things.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I would have done so many things.

[Lena Dunham]

I would have done 15 things. And so I think for me, it's like, I don't. Only for you would I do three things. It's like. Like, in the show, in Girls, I did three things, and this was me going too much. You know what? Too much thing. That was my. And also with actors, I'm always like, you are the Best at this of everyone. You are. I, I loved doing it on Girls, but I always knew that there were people who were as good at doing.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah, no, we'll think, no, I'm not going to let you do that because you were amazing and like, it was.

[Lena Dunham]

Great for the moment that we, it was a joy to do it for the moment we were doing it. And I'm really happy that I get to direct Meg doing it now.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So how does it work? You took off like a few years and then how does it work? Lena Dunham picks up the phone, is like, ding, ding, I'm back. And then all of a sudden, bang, bang, bang. Too much is coming out. You're working on the rom com. Good Sex with Natalie Portman. There's the play that you're working on. Right. The 10 things I hate about you.

[Lena Dunham]

The 10 things I hate about you with Jess Wang and Carly Rae Jepsen, which has been an amazing process.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So tell me how this happens. Like you call your agents. You're like out of hibernation. Like, how does this work? You know what?

[Lena Dunham]

It's more like, actually. Although I love your version where it's like, I'm back, ladies. Get me on the line with. You know, actually I've kind of been quietly working away on lots of stuff and then it all gets announced in this odd. When it rains, it pours torrent. And it's like, actually, we've been working on the play for four years and we've been working on the show since 2020. And we have been. You know, there have been lots of things in that time that haven't worked out because that's.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Because things take time, guys.

[Lena Dunham]

Things take time. If you want to do something, well, it takes time. Unfortunately.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

The other thing is that the movie business is a lot of incubating. Lots of eggs and some of them hatch and some of them do not. And then sometimes they all hatch all on the same. And that's what it is. So then. And also the narrative of the movie business is always like, so and so took a break only to return with X. And it's like the real. Cause it wouldn't sound as sexy as the actual story.

[Amanda Hirsch]

She's been working on this, which is.

[Lena Dunham]

Like she's been slowly puttering along with one three day vacation a year.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And occasionally taking an afternoon off to rewatch Alias. Like that doesn't sound that great.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

So they're going with that version.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So with the timing. So we have the show coming out in July too much. It's gonna be on Netflix.

[Lena Dunham]

Yep.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You're filming this summer, the Rom com.

[Lena Dunham]

With Natalie Portman, which I'm thrilled about. I'm. She's one of my favorite actors in the world, and I've wanted to do romantic comedy for a long time, also for Netflix.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Did you write it for her?

[Lena Dunham]

I wrote it for her, and she's producing it with me, which is incredible.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That's insane. The play is coming out. You're working on it?

[Lena Dunham]

We are working on it. And we have our first really big workshop this summer. So Jess, who is my incredible collaborator, co writer of the book, and Carly Rae are going to be kind of overseeing the workshop of the book that we've already written.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Wait, so it's based on the movie?

[Lena Dunham]

So it's based on the movie.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

And we've kind of done. I would say. I would say, like, for people who love the movie, don't worry. We're being faithful enough.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I trust you.

[Lena Dunham]

For people who don't know the movie or for people who are like, what's new in store for me? There have been some exciting twists that I think speak to a more modern time while still giving total reverence to the show, to the film, and then to really, like. And then the real piece de resistance is, like, Carly and Ethan Greska's brilliant music. And I'm a total musical nerd. And it is a real.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So when is that space?

[Lena Dunham]

I don't know where we're officially headed to B way.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

But we are having our first kind of workshop up for producers and other people to see so that they can start to make those decisions this summer.

[Amanda Hirsch]

So I'm so excited.

[Lena Dunham]

I'm hoping that people will be able to start seeing it in 2026. And then I also have a book coming out in 26.

[Amanda Hirsch]

You're gonna make me read again?

[Lena Dunham]

I'm gonna make you read again, Unfortunately, I'm gonna make you really put those little cvs.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I really will. Because I know that everybody you.

[Lena Dunham]

A really nice inscription.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

Dear darling.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And it's a memoir, sort of about the period of time from when girls began until now. And my. Both my work life, my health, my sobriety, and also just like, kind of reflecting on our societal relationship to women. Fame, self awareness, self examination, self flagellation. Like, it's both a personal story and a kind of larger cultural examination. And I've been working on it for a long time, for six years.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Is it done?

[Lena Dunham]

It's basically done.

[Amanda Hirsch]

But then 2026, like a year, or.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, I Think it's going to be next spring. My editor, Andy Ward. Do you hear me, Andy Ward? I think it's going to be next spring. Right.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It takes time. Everything takes time.

[Lena Dunham]

It takes time.

[Amanda Hirsch]

But we're reference. What happens, you write in their cultural reference from right now, now, like, to.

[Lena Dunham]

My book that comes out next week.

[Amanda Hirsch]

In your book, Like, I mean, like, pop culture reference is, like, relevant now. That's what I was.

[Lena Dunham]

I mean, I try not to do like a. It's funny because there's certain pop culture references you think are fleeting that then turn out to be forever. Like, Charlie bit me, you know, Like, Yeah. Like, it's like you thought that was.

[Amanda Hirsch]

One week a good example.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, Charlie bit me. Will never not, you know, never not know what that is. But then there's certain things that you think are gonna be forever that turned out to be fleeting. So you never know. And you have to try in all your work to like, not include. Like, I always try not to include things. To kind of include things that make it feel current but not date it too much.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like, you could always reference Katy Perry wearing the hamburger outfit to the mat.

[Lena Dunham]

You could literally always reference it. And honestly, you can always reference her wearing the candelabra to the mat.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Cause just a general reference. Katy Perry.

[Lena Dunham]

But you know what's weird? I don't think a blue origin reference is gonna be fresh forever.

[Amanda Hirsch]

No. You think people are gonna be like, oh, she took that spaceship ride.

[Lena Dunham]

I think people are gonna be like, she's taking. I think people are gonna be like, do you know how many fucking spaceship rides have happened since then?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

So many other people.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I think that she's gonna be the.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Least of our troubles with all these new things coming out. The last question I have is there was a Polly Pocket thing going on.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Pulled out.

[Lena Dunham]

I pulled out.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Why?

[Lena Dunham]

You know, I love. I love that. Firstly, it sounds crazy to be like. But I love that piece of ip. Like. Like, I truly love Polly Pocket toys to this day. Like, I just saw that one of my favorite clothing brands, Lisa says, gah, I have no affiliation with this professionally. Was doing a Polly Pocket branded, like, clothing drop. And I was like, I want all of this. Like, I. But I realized, I think that, you know, what Greta did with Barbie, managing to take this piece of IP and make it so personal and specific is really, really hard. And I just. I just didn't think I was gonna be the best person for the job. I was like, I am not going to do this as well as the other. And I think it will because Greta did it so well. It's always gonna be unnecessarily compared. And she's my friend, and I love her. And we've known each other for 20 years. Like, who needs that? And that movie just changed the world. And let this be something different. And I'm gonna go pursue something different. And it just, you know, sometimes you just have to, like, have the bravery.

[Amanda Hirsch]

To know when to say no.

[Lena Dunham]

When to say no. And I used to be really scared. Cause I always thought everything is fleeting, but it's not. It's okay to say no.

[Amanda Hirsch]

And you know what Art you're, like, best at making.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. I said no to something last week, and it was really hard, and it was 100% correct.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Like, you know it now. Yeah, a job thing.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, a job thing. And I was like. I was like, Emma. No, no.

[Amanda Hirsch]

That's what she said yes to. Guys, this podcast. This podcast.

[Lena Dunham]

And I'm so glad I did.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I'm so glad I did. I love you so much.

[Lena Dunham]

I really love you back.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I love you so much.

[Lena Dunham]

From the minute do we realize that we both loved.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Well, even if I loved you from.

[Lena Dunham]

Before, I loved you from before. I'm gonna write all my information for you down right here or in your phone. Even better.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday.

[Lena Dunham]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.