The public debate over policing has made more of us more familiar with ideas like defunding or abolishing the police, but these ideas are still often dismissed as infeasible. In this episode, host Kai Wright is joined by three experts who have seen communities sustain and improve public safety absent of law enforcement.

First, we meet Dennis Flores, a Nuyorican multimedia artist, activist and educator born and raised in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. He is the co-founder of El Grito de Sunset Park, a grassroots community-based organization that advocates around issues of discriminatory policing and housing rights. Flores is also the lead organizer of the Sunset Park Puerto Rican Day Parade, which, entering its third year, has created a celebration of Puerto Rican culture safe from police harassment. Flores shares how own experience with our justice system led him to find alternatives to police presence to keep his community safe.

Next, Kai is joined by Philip V. McHarris, an assistant professor in the Department of Black Studies and Frederick Douglas Institute at the University of Rochester, and author of the book, “Beyond Policing.” McHarris breaks down the history of our police system and how learning about the white supremacist origins of law enforcement can help us discover better alternatives.

Then Danielle Sered, executive director of the award-winning organization Common Justice, talks about developing and advancing solutions to violence that meet the needs of those harmed and foster racial equity without relying on incarceration. Sered is the author of “Until We Reckon: Violence, Mass Incarceration, and a Road to Repair” and her organization is at the forefront of alternatives to prison. She shares her takeaways from working on the frontlines — both with victims and perpetrators.

Companion Listening: “People Feel Unsafe–and It’s More Than Crime” (March 14, 2022)

The social fabric is torn. People nationwide are scared, some going so far as to arm themselves. What can we learn from our history as we react to this fear?

Tell us what you think. We're @noteswithkai on Instagram and X (Twitter). Email us at notes@wnyc.org. Send us a voice message by recording yourself on your phone and emailing us, or record one here.

Notes from America airs live on Sundays at 6 p.m. ET. The podcast episodes are lightly edited from our live broadcasts.