As prime minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern juggled leadership and motherhood

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Summary of "As Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern Juggled Leadership and Motherhood"

Release Date: June 16, 2025

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into Jacinda Ardern's memoir, "A Different Kind of Power", exploring the unique challenges Ardern faced as the Prime Minister of New Zealand while balancing motherhood. The discussion provides an intimate look into Ardern's personal and professional life, highlighting her resilience, leadership style, and the societal expectations placed upon her as a young woman in one of the world's most prominent political roles.

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Introduction to Jacinda Ardern and Her Memoir

The episode begins with an introduction to Jacinda Ardern, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand, and her memoir, "A Different Kind of Power". Host Mary Louise Kelly emphasizes Ardern's down-to-earth approach to leadership, contrasting it with the often lofty portrayal of heads of state.

Mary Louise Kelly [00:02]: "What I found refreshing about today's interview with Jacinda Ardern... she doesn't treat the position with pretentiousness."

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Facing Gender Bias in Politics

One of the central themes of Ardern's memoir is the gender bias she encountered while navigating her political career. Kelly recounts a pivotal moment during Ardern's early days as leader of the Labour Party.

Mary Louise Kelly [01:24]: "Jacinda Ardern tells a story about being locked in a political campaign... she was about to do a TV news interview."

During this interview, a male sports anchor suggested that women seeking new positions should be forthcoming about their reproductive plans. Ardern challenges this notion vehemently.

Jacinda Ardern [01:52]: "They said that was the bit that got me... it is totally inappropriate."

Ardern's assertiveness in this moment highlights the systemic pressures women face in leadership roles and sets the tone for her memoir's exploration of gender dynamics in politics.

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Balancing Leadership and Motherhood

A significant portion of Ardern's memoir—and the podcast discussion—focuses on her struggle to balance the demanding role of Prime Minister with motherhood. Kelly references a tense moment Ardern faced during coalition negotiations.

Mary Louise Kelly [02:04]: "You're sitting on the closed seat of the toilet... waiting to learn... if you're going to become Prime Minister and if you're pregnant."

This dual anxiety of impending leadership and potential motherhood underscored the unique pressures Ardern endured. Reflecting on this, Ardern shares the personal toll of such responsibilities.

Jacinda Ardern [04:36]: "The mother guilt that I have now that I'm around more is just the same as what I had then. It doesn't go away."

Her candid admission of enduring "mother guilt" resonates with many working parents, illustrating the emotional challenges of juggling high-stakes careers and family life.

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Decision to Step Down from Leadership

Ardern's memoir also delves into the difficult decision to step down as Prime Minister. Kelly probes the factors that influenced this choice, particularly a moment of personal health concern that forced Ardern to reevaluate her capacity to lead.

Mary Louise Kelly [06:13]: "What would you do if... getting a cancer diagnosis... describe what is going through your head."

Ardern explains that contemplating such a diagnosis opened the door to considering her departure from office—not out of selfishness, but as a necessary step for her well-being and effective leadership.

Jacinda Ardern [07:02]: "I ended up in this role because... my sense of responsibility always won out. It was only when... I started entertaining the idea of leaving... it was potentially a medical one."

This introspection underscores the importance of self-awareness and the acknowledgment of personal limits, even in positions of immense responsibility.

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Explaining Departure to Her Daughter

A poignant moment discussed in the episode is how Ardern communicated her resignation to her young daughter. Balancing transparency with simplicity, Ardern faced the challenge of conveying complex political decisions to a child.

Mary Louise Kelly [08:30]: "How did you explain it to her? To a child?"

Ardern shares that while her explanation was honest, her daughter’s response—“But Mummy, we never give up”—left her reflecting on the message it conveyed about perseverance and the nature of leadership.

Jacinda Ardern [08:41]: "Politics is an incredible place to be useful, to make change... but it's not the only place. So for anyone... let community and society know it's not the only place."

This exchange highlights the generational perspectives on persistence and the diverse avenues through which change can be effected.

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Legacy and Reflections

Concluding the discussion, Ardern reflects on her tenure as Prime Minister, the crises she navigated, and the personal sacrifices made. From biosecurity threats and natural disasters to the global pandemic, her leadership was tested repeatedly.

Jacinda Ardern [08:09]: "We had a biosecurity incursion, a volcanic eruption, a horrific domestic terror attack, and then the pandemic. I knew I needed more in reserve than what I had."

Despite the challenges, Ardern does not regret her decision to step down, recognizing the necessity of ensuring effective leadership and personal well-being.

Jacinda Ardern [08:30]: "I don't regret the decision... there was no magic to it."

Her memoir serves as a testament to the complexities of modern leadership, especially for women balancing public responsibilities and personal lives.

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Conclusion

Jacinda Ardern's "A Different Kind of Power" offers an unvarnished look into the life of a modern female leader. Through NPR's engaging interview, listeners gain insight into the personal and professional hurdles Ardern faced, her unwavering sense of duty, and the profound impact of her leadership on New Zealand and beyond. The episode not only celebrates Ardern's accomplishments but also serves as an inspiring narrative for aspiring leaders navigating similar paths.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jacinda Ardern [01:52]: "You can ask me that question, but it is totally inappropriate."
• Jacinda Ardern [04:36]: "The mother guilt... doesn't go away."
• Jacinda Ardern [07:02]: "It was only when... I started entertaining the idea of leaving... it was potentially a medical one."
• Jacinda Ardern [08:30]: "I don't regret the decision... there was no magic to it."

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This episode of Book of the Day provides a comprehensive and heartfelt exploration of Jacinda Ardern's journey, offering valuable lessons on leadership, resilience, and the enduring quest for balance between professional aspirations and personal fulfillment.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. When heads of state write memoirs, they can make the job seem a bit lofty. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's an important job. It's a hard job, but it is, at the end of the day, a job. What I found refreshing about today's interview with Jacinda Ardern, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand, is that she doesn't treat the position with pretentiousness. It was a gig she wanted, and when it was time to go, she left. Her new memoir is titled A Different Kind of Power, and in it she writes about the comments and attitudes she had to overcome as a young woman and mother who also happened to be the prime minister. Up ahead, she talks to NPR's Mary Louise Kelly about all that and how she feels now that she's outside of politics.

[Charles Schwab]

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

Jacinda Ardern tells a story about being locked in a political campaign. Seven weeks to go before elections and she's about to do a TV news interview. Ardern had just taken over as leader of the Labour Party in New Zealand. If they won, she would become prime minister. And as she waited for her live hit, she listened as the male sports anchor opined that she and all women seeking new jobs should be open about their reproductive plans.

[Jacinda Ardern]

They that was the bit that got me. And I think that was because I'd talked openly about wanting a family. But to assert that any woman should be asked that, I really rebelled against that. That upset me.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

What'd you do?

[Jacinda Ardern]

Well, I pulled out my index finger and I pointed at him quite a lot whilst really clearly asserting, you can ask me that question, but it is totally inappropriate. And then it was 2017 to imply that any woman should have to answer that question with an employer.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Jacinda Ardern's party won the election. She became prime minister. And she describes that 2017 TV exchange in her new memoir, A Different Kind of Power. It's one of many moments that Let you glimpse what it was like to be a young woman running a country. When I sat down with Ardern yesterday, I also asked about a moment that took place a few weeks later in a bathroom.

You're sitting on the closed seat of the toilet. Toilet, yeah.

[Jacinda Ardern]

It's very glamorous.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And you're scared to death because you're waiting to learn two things. What were they?

[Jacinda Ardern]

Ah, so this was right in the middle of coalition negotiations. Our systems are like the German one. You don't always know on election night if you've won or not. So I was waiting to find out whether or not I was going to become the Prime Minister of New Zealand. And in that moment, I was also waiting to find out if I was pregnant. Quite a time. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Many of us who have been pregnant have battled morning sickness.

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yes.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Few of us had to run a country while doing so. I loved your line about that. It was salt and vinegar potato chips that got you through. It was Cheetos for me. I can never eat them again. I don't know if you can still face salt and vinegar, Chris. I was also thinking. And you captured there were very few people you could ask. You were only the second person to give birth while holding elected office at the top of a government. Benazir Buddha was the first.

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yes, that's right.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

You asked Queen Elizabeth.

[Jacinda Ardern]

I did ask Queen Elizabeth and you know, really, she just completely straight faced, she just said, well, you just get on with it. And there was just something about that. I thought, well, it's true, because actually when you break it down in any role, any parent who is working and raising children, it's a matter of logistics. Every day is one foot in front of the other. It's getting on with it. And that turned out to be true. There was no magic to it.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

But you found, and I could so relate to this, that as your daughter grew, you found the juggle getting harder.

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yeah.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

You were weighing what you were missing with her and it weighed more heavily as she got bigger.

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yeah. And actually, I mean, I found that, you know, in a way, as difficult as I found it, breastfeeding was an excuse to have her with me, you know, but actually, as she got older, it was less practical. But I was also at the same time really clear that when I left, that was not a decision that was about, it is too hard to be a mother and to do this role. There was no way that I was going to place the weight of that decision on her, nor was I going to send a message to any woman that you can't do both. You can, you can. Because actually the mother guilt that I have now that I'm around more is just the same as what I had then. It doesn't go away. It's the price you pay of being a parent. And probably having that perspective has been really helpful as well.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Painful is the takeaway that we're gonna feel guilty no matter what.

[Jacinda Ardern]

That's absolutely correct.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So you might as well go do what you came to do.

[Jacinda Ardern]

We might as well flip it to think about what we want for our own children and we want for them to have fulfilling lives as if they choose parents and careers if they choose. Why don't we give ourselves that same grace.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Before people start writing and yelling at me? Why are you asking her these questions? Would you ask the same thing of a 40 something male leader? Yes, I would. But I'm asking you specifically because you write so honestly in such a raw way about what? That struggle that I think every working parent has dealt with to the point where you're getting a breast screening, they see something or feel something that raises questions, you might have cancer and describe what is going through your head.

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yeah. And I think someone asked me, why are you talking about this at this point, given the proximity to when you left office? And it was because, actually, it wasn't a determinative factor for me, but it was the first moment that I started thinking, what would I do in those circumstances whilst being in this job? And it invited the question of, oh, you know, maybe I would have to leave. And there was something at that point that I felt, felt, you know, even allowing myself to think about departure. I could feel that I was thinking about it in a way that I hadn't before.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

But I guess I'm curious what had changed in your thinking that your reaction to a possible diagnosis of cancer wasn't, oh my God, I might have cancer, but was, oh my God, I might get to leave, I might get to be done. Yeah, that's a really significant.

[Jacinda Ardern]

It is, it is. And I knew that that wasn't a great way to that piece of information and that's what gave me pause to think about it. But, you know, as I was writing about it, I know exactly what was happening. I ended up in this role because that battle that I always had between whether or not I felt like I was equipped with all of the skills needed to be a leader, which I never believed myself to hold, and that sense of responsibility just happened to be. In my case, my sense of responsibility always won out. That was what brought me into the role. And it was only when I had a piece of information that allowed myself to get beyond my sense of responsibility that I started entertaining the idea of leaving. And it wasn't in that moment for a selfish reason, but rather potentially a medical one. So it just started a thought process that I hadn't allowed myself to have until then.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

It opened the door to that possibility. So how do you know when it's time to go? When you're in a job you worked really hard to get and you love, you can tell you loved it.

[Jacinda Ardern]

And I did love it and there's so much about it that I miss. But I, at the same time don't regret the decision. You've always gotta have a bit of extra, you know, in case there's crisis. And for us, we had a biosecurity incursion, a volcanic eruption, a horrific domestic terror attack, and then the pandemic. I knew I needed more in reserve than what I had.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

You write about a question that your daughter, I think she was five by this point or around about you two were walking home from daycare and she asked why you had stepped down as prime minister.

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yeah.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

How did you explain it to her? To a child?

[Jacinda Ardern]

Yeah. And it's a great question. I gave her a version of what I'd kind of said at the time because it was my honest view and it was, as I've already explained, I just did it in a more user friendly way. And then she just said to me, but Mummy, we never give up. And suddenly I was mortified at the idea that that might have been what she thought. You know, for me, politics is an incredible place to be useful, to make change, to address injustice, but it's not the only place. And so for anyone who feels like politics is so representative about the direction of travel, for community, for society, it is not the only place. I spent 15 years in politics and the majority I was in opposition and every day I was motivated by what I saw amongst people in communities. That was in spite sometimes of what they might have seen at a leadership level. So I guess I'd say to say to anyone the same thing I said to her. Oh, I'm never giving up.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Jacinda Ardern was Prime Minister of New Zealand from 2017 to 2023. Her memoir is a different kind of power.

[Andrew Limbong]

And just a reminder that signing up for Book of the Day plus is a great way to support NPR's book coverage and public media. And you'll get to listen to every episode sponsor free. So please go Go find out [e-mail] BookOfTheDay.

[Charles Schwab]

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