Authors of two new novels draw inspiration from history in wildly different ways

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Authors Draw Inspiration from History in Unique Ways

Release Date: April 4, 2025

In this engaging episode of NPR's Book of the Day, listeners are introduced to two novelists who harness historical inspiration in remarkably distinct fashions. Host Andrew Limbong delves into the creative processes behind Emma Donoghue's The Paris Express and Bob the Drag Queen's Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. This summary captures the essence of their discussions, highlighting key insights, notable quotes, and the authors' unique approaches to blending history with fiction.

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Emma Donoghue on The Paris Express

Inspiration from a Historic Photograph

Emma Donoghue, renowned for her bestselling novel Room (adapted into an acclaimed film), discusses her latest work, The Paris Express. The novel draws inspiration from a captivating 1895 photograph depicting a runaway steam locomotive that became an inadvertent poster of industrial might and disaster.

Emma Donoghue [03:11]: "I just thought, that's the most arresting image I've ever seen. And I looked it up and thought, why has nobody written a novel about this?"

Extensive Research Meets Creative Imagination

Donoghue emphasizes the meticulous research undertaken to breathe life into the historical event, stating that "facts are often more amazingly strange than anything I could think up" (00:42). She combined rigorous historical accuracy with creative storytelling to portray the diverse array of passengers aboard the ill-fated train, reflecting the societal dynamics of 1890s France.

Emma Donoghue [04:03]: "I enjoy making stuff up just as much... I use newspapers. I was able to look up a wonderful hoard of bureaucracy, but then there always comes a moment when the facts run out."

Depicting Society's Transformation through Railroads

The novel explores the transformative impact of railroads on 19th-century society, including changes in commerce, communication, and settlement patterns. Donoghue highlights how the advent of the railway necessitated standardized time zones, revolutionizing daily life and economic activities.

Emma Donoghue [05:31]: "Suddenly you had to have standardized time zones because the trains were the first things that could, you know, quiz from one state in America to another fast enough that they might actually collide with each other if they weren't working on the same time."

Reflections on Modern Technology and Mortality

Writing The Paris Express led Donoghue to contemplate the implications of technological advancements on contemporary life. She draws parallels between the relentless pursuit of progress in her novel and today's rapid technological changes, pondering the hidden costs and the fragility of human endeavors.

Emma Donoghue [06:41]: "The ideal of the frictionless life. It's always based on somebody else's hard labor."

Humanizing Historical Events

By personifying the train as a metaphor for human life, Donoghue infuses her narrative with themes of mortality and the unpredictability of existence. She underscores the human emotions and societal pressures that contribute to historical events, making the past resonate with present-day readers.

Emma Donoghue [07:06]: "It also made me think a lot about my own mortality, actually, because the train again starts to seem like an image of a human life."

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Bob the Drag Queen on Harriet Tubman Live in Concert

A Fusion of History and Hip Hop

Bob the Drag Queen presents a bold reimagining of Harriet Tubman in his novel Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. The story envisions Tubman resurrected in the modern era, embarking on a career as a rapper to further her mission of liberation and activism.

Bob the Drag Queen [10:12]: "Harriet Tubman wants to continue her work as an abolitionist. She's interested in freedom. Freedom is her guiding light."

Integrating Music into Activism

Drawing inspiration from Tubman's historical use of music during her Underground Railroad operations, Bob seamlessly blends her legacy with contemporary hip hop, a genre known for its powerful messaging and widespread influence. This creative choice serves as a bridge between past and present struggles for freedom and equality.

Bob the Drag Queen [12:26]: "Harriet Tubman used music when she did her work as an abolitionist. So it's actually not that far-fetched to imagine that Harriet Tubman would be using music today if she were actually still here doing things with us."

Exploring Tubman's Multifaceted Legacy

Bob delves into the lesser-known aspects of Harriet Tubman's life, including her military service and diverse roles beyond the Underground Railroad. By highlighting her as a spy, cook, and mother, he paints a comprehensive portrait of Tubman's resilience and versatility.

Bob the Drag Queen [13:09]: "Harriet Tubman is not just the first woman to lead a US Military mission to date. She is the only woman to have ever done it."

Targeting a Diverse Audience

Acknowledging the multifaceted nature of his novel, Bob identifies his audience as individuals who appreciate history, music, queer culture, and inventive storytelling. He aims to offer a fresh and relatable perspective on a historical figure, making Tubman's story accessible to a broad spectrum of readers.

Bob the Drag Queen [13:56]: "If you're a theater nerd, if you're a black queer, if you're a millennial, if you're a history buff, if you like hip hop music, if you like absurd concepts, this book could be for you."

Artistic Expression through Original Content

Incorporating original songs within the narrative, Bob enriches the storytelling by merging lyrical artistry with historical fiction. These musical interludes not only enhance the narrative but also emphasize Tubman's enduring spirit and relentless pursuit of freedom.

Bob the Drag Queen [16:01]: "Harriet says, I think it's time to write some good music. I mean, some hood music..."

Defining Freedom in Contemporary Context

Through his discussions, Bob articulates his personal and societal understanding of freedom, reflecting on its complexities and the persistent challenges faced by marginalized communities. His perspective underscores the timeless relevance of Tubman's fight for liberation.

Bob the Drag Queen [16:31]: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. And I love when Nina Simone said freedom means no fear."

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Concluding Insights

This episode of NPR's Book of the Day masterfully showcases how history can serve as a fertile ground for contemporary storytelling. Emma Donoghue and Bob the Drag Queen exemplify the diverse ways authors can interpret and reimagine historical events and figures, creating narratives that resonate with today's audiences. Their works not only preserve historical legacies but also infuse them with modern relevance, inviting readers to reflect on the past while engaging with present-day themes.

Listeners are encouraged to explore The Paris Express and Harriet Tubman Live in Concert to experience these vivid reimaginings firsthand, appreciating the intricate blend of fact and fiction that breathes new life into historical narratives.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. And today we have two wildly different ways novelists can use history to inspire their writing. In a bit, we'll hear about a book where Harriet Tubman comes back to life to start a career as a rapper. But first, the author Emma Donoghue is on the pod talking about her novel the Paris Express. It's inspired by a famous photograph from from 1895. And in this interview with NPR, Steve Inskeep Donahue talks about doing a massive amount of research for this book because, as she says, facts are often more amazingly strange than anything she could think up. That's ahead.

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[Steve Inskeep]

1895 is the basis for many posters and the occasional social media meme. It shows an old fashioned steam locomotive that couldn't stop, crashed all the way through a railroad terminal and tumbled out onto the street on the far the novelist Emma Donahue saw that photo. Her earlier novels include Room, which is the story of a mother and child trapped in a room which became a film. Now Donahue's novel, the Paris Express tries to imagine what life was like for travelers on that train. In 1895, an express train set off.

[Emma Donoghue]

From Granville on the Normandy coast and headed straight for Paris. It was only meant to stop four times along the route and it was meant to get in by 4 o'clock and it all went horribly wrong. Steve There were some important guests on the train, you know, VIPs. There were three members of parliament and one of them asked could the train possibly stop near his country house for his carriage to be put on. And that delayed the train by 10 minutes, which was enough to bring on disaster because the driver and stoker, the entire crew, would have felt under massive pressure to get to Paris on time despite this delay.

[Steve Inskeep]

This would have counted, I think, as a minor train accident and not remembered to history at all except for a particular photograph.

[Emma Donoghue]

You're so right. In fact, it's a cluster of photographs. Lots of people rushed to the scene of the disaster and took pictures, amateurs as well as professionals, but all of them show an incongruous image of a train plunging out a window almost vertically. I don't know how I hadn't come across this in half a century. Maybe because I never was in residence at a university. And it's a very popular dorm room image, but basically it's that combination of modernity and high tech and really impressive signs of industry and speed and then complete disasters.

[Steve Inskeep]

You said that you until recently were not familiar with this image as a poster and a bit of pop culture. So what got you interested in the story?

[Emma Donoghue]

I happened to be going to live in the area of Montparnasse in Paris for a year because my partner is a French professor. That was the only place we could find a three bedroom flat for us and our large children. So I googled it and the first thing I saw was multiple copies of this photograph from 1895. And I just thought, that's the most arresting image I've ever seen. And I looked it up and thought, why has nobody written a novel about this?

[Steve Inskeep]

Now, you could have made up everything except the final image, but you seem instead to have done a bunch of research. How did you go about learning about this?

[Emma Donoghue]

You know, I find the facts are often more amazingly strange than anything I could make up. I research things really very much as if I'm doing solid history. You know, I use dash, I use newspapers. I was able to look up wonderful hoard of bureaucracy, but then there always comes a moment when the facts run out. So I enjoy making stuff up just as much.

[Steve Inskeep]

When you're making stuff up, I'm interested in this detail. Sometimes writers of historical fiction will say, I make stuff up that is consistent with the historical record that could have happened, even if nobody knows that it did. Do you try that?

[Emma Donoghue]

Yes. For instance, I didn't have an individual coffee seller person to use on my train, but I spotted in a photograph in the Paris Historical Museum, I spotted an amazing image of somebody wearing a gigantic tank on their back full of hot coffee, which he served out of little taps on his chest. And I thought, okay, that is clearly credible for the time to have a human coffee pot serving the busy commuters. And what a modern image.

[Steve Inskeep]

When you began learning about some of the passengers on the train, what are some of the kinds of people you found?

[Emma Donoghue]

We all know that on a train there's going to be a vivid example of the class system because people are literally segregated into nice red velvet covered carriages in first class and then horrible cramped carriages in third class. But I also found diversity in other ways because France was the center of its own empire. Right? So you've got Cambodian students, you've North African coffee sellers, you've expats, American painters visiting, like Henry Osterwood Tanner. And you have troublemakers and anarchists and lowlifes visiting Paris. You have inventors, you have writers, you've queers, you've feminists.

[Steve Inskeep]

Well, let's remember what railroads were doing in the 1800s when they were the hot new technology. How were they changing society?

[Emma Donoghue]

Well, for instance, on my train, the local makers of camembert, they were able to ship their cheeses across the world before the cheeses got too stinky. So suddenly your man and woman in a village in Normandy could ship their cheeses to New York, and that meant they could actually stay in their village and they could make money there. So it had a huge influence on the settlement patterns, immigration patterns astonishingly central to the shaping of Europe. It was the perfect raggle for a novel because a train moves from beginning to end with unexpected events along the way, just like a novel.

[Steve Inskeep]

And I think you're right that it's transforming commerce, but also communication, but also society and where people live and how people work and essentially everything.

[Emma Donoghue]

Oh, and time, for instance, suddenly you had to have standardized time zones because the trains were the first things that could, you know, quiz from one state in America to another fast enough that they might actually collide with each other if they weren't working on the same time. So suddenly people had to start standardizing their watches.

[Steve Inskeep]

Did the experience of writing this book change the way that you thought about the next time you were checking email or doing something online or whatever you were doing in modern times?

[Emma Donoghue]

You know, writing this book didn't turn me into a Luddite, but it certainly helped me think in a very practical way about the costs of our technology and our just our longing to get there faster and easier and smoother. The ideal of the frictionless life. It's always based on somebody else's hard labor.

[Steve Inskeep]

If it didn't turn you into a Luddite, what did it do? Just make you try to appreciate all the unseen parts of our lives.

[Emma Donoghue]

Yes. And be aware that you can make decisions. I mean, you know, one of the reasons the train crashed is I would say the big railway companies, they had an implicit policy of, yeah, go ahead and speed. You know, in theory, the drivers weren't meant to speed, but the company was like, we'll give you all a good big bonus if you get to Paris on time despite delays, you know, and any delays caused by the passengers. Can you make up that time, please. It also made me think a lot about my own mortality, actually, because the train again starts to seem like an image of a human life. You know, you think you have all the way till Paris, but there can be an interruption and a derailment at any moment.

[Steve Inskeep]

I am thinking of the popular Internet phrase move fast and break things, which is been repeated a lot recently because of Elon Musk's actions in Washington. This train was moving fast and breaking things. And you note the historical fact that the crew was in no way particularly punished for the crash.

[Emma Donoghue]

No, no. These were just seen as the cost of doing business, to use another cliche.

[Steve Inskeep]

Emma Donoghue is the author of the Paris Express, her latest novel. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

[Emma Donoghue]

Pleasure. It's been all mine, Steve. Thank you.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Foreign.

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[Andrew Limbong]

Queen wanted to do was write a book about Harriet Tubman rapping. That nugget of an idea is where the new novel Harriet Tubman Live in Concert begins. But it just so happens that the only way to justify that premise is to have a bunch of other historical figures come back to life, too. Here's NPR's Asia Roscoe.

[Asia Roscoe]

You can call Bob the Drag Queen a lot of things. Performer, musician, comedian and recently traitor. Now you can add one more thing to that list. Author Bob's new book is all about one of his idols, Harriet Tubman, who he's called the first black superhero. In fact, when asked this question on Ziwei Fuumado's talk show, who would win in a fight, Harriet Tubman or Spider Man? Bob did not hesitate.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

I'm gonna go with Harriet Tubman. Harriet Tubman is a scout for the US Military. The cardio on this woman from below the Mason Dixie to Canada 12 times.

[Asia Roscoe]

Bob the Drag Queen is here now to talk about his new book, Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. Welcome to WEEKEND edition.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Hi, I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Asia Roscoe]

In your story, you have these larger than life historical figures come back to Life, including Harriet Tubman. Can you give us a little taste?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Got it. I never thought this day would come when so many figures from the past started returning. I just kept hoping that Harriet would show. Not only did she show, but she reached out to me. I still have the invite. She sent me a lovely little handwritten note. Get over here. Harriet Tubman with the address at the studio. I think I'll have it framed.

[Asia Roscoe]

So what kind of help does Harriet want from Darnell? And Darnell is your main character.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Harriet Tubman wants to continue her work as an abolitionist. She's interested in freedom. Freedom is her guiding light. And obviously the goalpost for freedom has moved from what it was when Harriet Tubman started her work as a conductor on the Underground Railroad. So she wants to reach a lot of people. And hip hop is a magnificent form of art that has reached millions of people. So she reaches out to Darnell, who Grammy award winning producer, and she wants his help with reaching the masses.

[Asia Roscoe]

So where did your love of Harriet Tubman come from?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

I'm from Atlanta. Right. So I know a lot of people talk about their work in school when they did Black History Month. Well, in Atlanta, we take it very, very seriously. Like we teach black history all throughout the year. I just remember every time I learned something new about Harriet Tubman, it sounded unbelievable. But yet tons and tons of historians are able to corroborate all these stories. She did things that seemed otherworldly. I mean, she even had superpowers. She had precognition. She was getting divine ins on where to go, where not to go, what to do, what not to do in ways of staying safe and make roughly a dozen trips back and forth without ever getting caught. One time, never. Losing a passenger on the Underground railroad is a really big accomplishment. She's possibly the most remarkable person to ever live.

[Asia Roscoe]

When did you come up with the idea of like, having historical figures come back to life?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

I never had a desire to write a book about people come back to life. I just wanted to write a book about Harriet Tubman writing a hip hop album. And then I had to justify it, and I had to justify it.

[Asia Roscoe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

And it's not sci fi. When you read the book, you're not gonna be going deep into how it happened. You know, the manecular structure of the DNA 4, 3 time space continuum. It's not all that. The book is like. It's happening and it's here. We haven't figured it out yet. It's just happening. And we're all just living with it.

[Asia Roscoe]

You know, so you wanted Harriet Tubman and hip hop to be mixing a little bit.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Harriet Tubman used music when she did her work as an abolitionist. You know, she actually did use music. So it's actually not that far fetched to imagine that Harriet Tubman would be using music today if she were actually still here doing things with us.

[Asia Roscoe]

Well, I mean, a lot of people may not know about Harriet Tubman's military service. I think most people know the Underground Railroad. But there are lots that they don't know, and that's explored in this book. Do you feel like this book is also a way to give a fuller picture of her life and to teach more to those people who may not have listened in history class or may not have been taught in history class about these facts about Harriet Tubman?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

So just to give Harriet Tubman her flowers, Harriet Tubman is not just the first woman to lead a US Military mission to date. She is the only woman to have ever done it. My book is not a history book. It takes place right now. You can learn things from it. She was a spy, she was a cook, she was a chef, she was a mother, she was a wife. She was one of many siblings. She had so many odd and crazy and scary and remarkable things happen in her life. She opened up a home for formerly enslaved people who were reaching an age of retirement, where she ended up living at the end of her life. Cause she actually got scammed by people from her own community. Even though she had done everything, she had given every ounce of everything she had to help people. And I think that stuff is really important.

[Asia Roscoe]

Who do you look at as the audience for this book? I know it's not a history book.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

I mean, the truth is, I am the target, aud, for this book. I wrote a book that I would want to read. If you're a theater nerd, if you're a black queer, if you're a millennial, if you're a history buff, if you like hip hop music, if you like absurd concepts, this book could be for you.

[Asia Roscoe]

I got to ask you about your most recent TV appearance on the Traitors. I think we have a clip from that.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

I will tell a truth, but I will never tell a lie. All of you know I've never lied, guys. I said, I swear to God. God. And that was a lie because I don't believe in God. I'm a traitor.

[Asia Roscoe]

Did you have that speech prepared?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

No, I was making it up. As I realized I was going home, I had so much adrenaline. I actually misspoke several times. I meant to say, I will tell a joke, but I'll never tell a lie. That's what I meant to say. And then at the end when I said, I swear to God, I meant to say that wasn't a lie because I don't believe in God. That's what I meant to say. But I just had so much adrenaline coursing through my veins that it just came out wrong. But the idea got across.

[Asia Roscoe]

The idea. It definitely got across. It all worked out for your fans who got to know you on Traitors, and then before that on RuPaul's Drag Race. What should they expect when they get to this book? It's another side of you. Would you say that's accurate?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Yeah. It's not a memoir, y'all. It's not about my life. I'm not in this book. It's not stories of me and RuPaul or me at the club and the drag queens come in and we doing shots and we're voguing. That's not what this book is. I mean, it has to do with me because I'm a black American, and I do want people to know that it does show a different side of me.

[Asia Roscoe]

The book is called Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. There are songs in the book. Would you sing a little bit of one of the songs for us?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

For sure. Harriet says, I think it's time to write some good music. I mean, some hood music. I'm talking about, I wish some wood music liberated my people through the swamps and the dirts and the wood music. Never would have made it if I never had the vision, but the Holy Spirit said I could.

[Asia Roscoe]

MUSIC oh, my goodness. I love it. I love it. Now, I gotta ask you, when you think about Harriet Tubman, you're thinking about freedom. What is freedom to you?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

I have a couple of quotes that I really love. One that I use is Kris Kristofferson, and he says, you know, freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. And I love when Nina Simone said freedom means no fear. I mean, really, no fear. I love those definitions of freedom. And am I completely free? No. I have fear. Living in our current administration, I have fear. You know, living in this world, I have fear. Fear of financial insecurity, fear of what's going to happen with my career, fear of what people think of me. Fear of what's going to happen with these laws. As I see actions against people of color and people who are disabled and queer people, specifically trans people. That does give me a lot of fear, actually.

[Asia Roscoe]

But the thing about fear, though, that I always think about is that you can be afraid, but you keep going. And that's really Harriet Tubman, right?

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Oh, yeah. Keep going. No matter what, keep going.

[Asia Roscoe]

That's Bob the Drag Queen. His new book is Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. Thank you so much.

[Bob the Drag Queen]

Thank you.

[Andrew Limbong]

That's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. Let us know what you think. You can write to [e-mail] I'm Andrew Limbong. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our founding editor is Petra Maher. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Michael Levitt, John Ketchum, Lennon Sherborne, Sarah Handel, Gabriel Santraz, Kiera Joachim, Christopher Intagliata, Julie Devenbrock, Adriana Gallardo, Olivia Hampton, Elena Torick and Melissa Gray. Yolanda Sanguine is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.

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