Colson Whitehead on 'Cool Machine,' the final in his Harlem Trilogy series

Summary

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NPR’s Book of the Day – July 27, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Aisha Roscoe interviews two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning author Colson Whitehead about his new novel, Cool Machine, the final installment in his Harlem Trilogy. The conversation dives into the book's central character, Ray Carney, the themes of crime, morality, and gentrification in 1980s Harlem, and how Whitehead weaves both humor and profound social commentary into his crime fiction.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ray Carney’s Dual Nature & the Allure of Crime

• Introduction of Carney: Ray is a furniture salesman in Harlem with a long-running sideline as a fence, operating between the worlds of legality and crime.

  • (01:03) Aisha Roscoe: “Ray Carney is a furniture salesman in Harlem with a long running side hustle acting as a fence.”
  • (01:09) Colson Whitehead: “A fence is someone who deals in stolen goods, takes them from the illegal world and launders them for the straight world.”

• Exploring Carney’s Character:

  • (01:59) Colson Whitehead: “He’s a divided soul. You know, he grew up poor and has these dreams of being solidly middle class... But there’s a voice in the back of his head that’s always saying, let’s do some crimes... In the third book, he’s, you know, trying to integrate these two different halves of himself.”

2. Codes Among Criminals

• On Morality in Crime:
  • (02:41) Colson Whitehead: “I don’t know about honor, but there’s a code... you have a certain kind of rules, things you will do, what you won’t do. A line. And part of the book is exploring, you know, how bad is it being a fence when so many people are committing other, bigger crimes.”

3. Gentrification and the ‘Churn’ in Harlem

• New York’s Transformation:

  • (03:01) Aisha Roscoe: “A big theme is gentrification... The characters in your book call it Churn... What interested you about this period of change?”
  • (03:21) Colson Whitehead: “Churn is an ever present force in the city... If you think about the history of Harlem... there was this constant movement of people in and out of the city, transforming it... That replenishment, I think, is really fascinating and lovely about the city...”

• Character Reactions – Pepper’s Perspective:

  • (04:15) Aisha Roscoe: “Pepper in particular... is really taken aback when his bar... becomes gentrified with kind of white patrons. Yuppies, I think he calls them.”
  • (04:40) Colson Whitehead: “Yeah, it’s the early 80s, so it’s the rise of the yuppie... wondering, why is that guy reading a New York Times? That’s where the pimp sits... He definitely doesn’t get Basquiat type painters and post punk... So he’s always fun to set loose on a scene, whether it’s a violent moment of crime or just the yuppies are taking your favorite spot at the bar.”

4. Aging and Change in the Underworld

• Aging Out of the Game:
  • (05:18) Aisha Roscoe: “Do you see Pepper as tragic, running out of time …?”
  • (05:28) Colson Whitehead: “Yeah... they’re getting older, and I have to dramatize that. So he’s 65. He doesn’t take a beating as well as he used to. He’s always swilling his Pepto Bismol... there’s no pension plan for a safecracker. He doesn’t have, like an IRA or 401. What’s next for him?”

5. Personal Connection and the Texture of 1980s NYC

• Whitehead’s Own Experience:
  • (06:04) Colson Whitehead: “I was a young teenager... had a really cool older sister who introduced me to Run DMC and also Liquid Liquid, ESG, these downtown bands... And so I get to salute that period. And it was great to just be able to bring in some of my New York into Ray’s New York.”

6. The Crime Novel as Social Satire

• Genre, Humor, and Social Commentary:
  • (06:43) Colson Whitehead: “...if you’re someone who likes to make jokes, like me, you know you’re gonna have an ironic relationship to the genre... having fun with the supporting cast, some of the tropes and rhetoric... The Underground Railroad and the Nickel Boys were very sober books, but part of my project is pointing out the absurdity of life, and I get to do that in this trilogy. I get to have fun. I get to tell jokes and have a hero who’s not as determined by his social circumstances as, say, the characters in Underground or Nickel Boys.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Harlem’s Changing Identity:
  (03:21) Colson Whitehead: “Churn is an ever present force in the city... the great, great grandkids of those original immigrants... are moving to Harlem now... That replenishment, I think, is really fascinating and lovely about the city...”

• On Aging in Crime:
  (05:28) Colson Whitehead: “There’s no pension plan for a safecracker. He doesn’t have, like an IRA or 401. What’s next for him?”

• On Having Fun with Crime Fiction:
  (06:43) Colson Whitehead: “Part of my project is pointing out the absurdity of life, and I get to do that in this trilogy. I get to have fun. I get to tell jokes and have a hero who’s not as determined by his social circumstances as... in Underground or Nickel Boys.”

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Key Timestamps

• 01:03: Introduction of Ray Carney and his life as a fence
• 01:59: Whitehead explains Carney’s divided nature
• 02:41: Discussion of criminal codes and morality
• 03:21: Examination of gentrification and 'Churn' in Harlem
• 04:40: Pepper’s reaction to changes in his neighborhood bar
• 05:28: Aging in the criminal underworld
• 06:04: Whitehead’s personal teenage memories of 1980s New York
• 06:43: The role of irony and humor in Whitehead’s trilogy

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, insightful, and peppered with warmth and humor. Whitehead’s voice is both thoughtful and wry as he discusses serious themes within Harlem’s history and the crime novel genre, but he also relishes the chance to use satire and nostalgia to bring his characters—and the city—to life.

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Conclusion

This interview provides a layered look at both Cool Machine and the broader Harlem Trilogy, offering context for the evolution of Harlem, the complexity of its characters, and the vibrant, ever-changing pulse of New York City in the 1980s. Whitehead’s reflections on character, community, and craft make this episode a rich resource for readers and writers alike.

Transcript

[Alyssa Nadworny]

Hello, I'm Alyssa Nadworny, and you're listening to NPR's Book of the Day. The third book in Colson Whitehead's crime trilogy is finally here. His signature style of heists and 80s nostalgia is just as rich as ever in Cool Machine, which picks up the story of Ray Carney navigating the crime world in New York City. Whitehead has won two Pulitzer Prizes, a National Book Award and a MacArthur Genius Grant. He talked with Weekend EDITION host Aisha Roscoe.

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[Aisha Roscoe]

Ray Carney is a furniture salesman in Harlem with a long running side hustle acting as a fence.

[Colson Whitehead]

A fence is someone who deals in stolen goods, takes them from the illegal world and launders them for the straight world.

[Aisha Roscoe]

That's Colson Whitehead, who won Pulitzer Prizes for his books the Underground Railroad and the Nickel Boys. Whitehead's just finished his Harlem trilogy following Ray Carney's descent into crime across decades in a rapidly changing New York City. His latest and last in the trilogy is Cool Machine, set in the 1980s as yuppies take over. And Colson Whitehead joins us now from New York. Thank you for being here.

[Colson Whitehead]

Hey, howdy.

[Aisha Roscoe]

Ray Carney. He often reflects on why he's drawn to a life of occasional crime. Why do you think he keeps returning to that dark side?

[Colson Whitehead]

He's a divided soul. You know, he grew up poor and has these dreams of being solidly middle class, being a good family man, having a nice home, having a legit business. But there's a voice in the back of his head that's always saying, let's do some crimes. And so over the trilogy, he embraces, he runs away from that voice. And in the third book, the final book, he's, you know, trying to integrate these two different halves of himself.

[Aisha Roscoe]

And these criminals have codes, they have ways of doing things. And do you think there's like some sort of religion for criminals or is there really no honor among thieves?

[Colson Whitehead]

I don't know about honor, but there's a code. You know, the second book is called Crook Manifesto and, you know, one character muses that you have a certain kind of rules, things you will do, what you won't do. A line. And part of the book is exploring, you know, how bad is it being a fence when so many people are committing other, bigger crimes.

[Aisha Roscoe]

This novel spans the 1980s, and a big theme is gentrification, both of New York City in general and of these black neighborhoods in Harlem. The characters in your book call it Churn. What interested you about this period of change in New York?

[Colson Whitehead]

Churn is an ever present force in the city. Populations are moving in, entering the middle class, you know, flunking out. And if you think about the history of Harlem, there are townhouses that are still standing going back to the 1870s and 1880s, and they are the first homes for German, Irish, Jewish immigrants. They left. Black migrants came from the south and the Caribbean. And there was this constant movement of people in and out of the city, transforming it for themselves, being transformed. And I think one of the cool things about that phenomenon, and it is gentrification, is that the great, great grandkids of those original immigrants, the Germans who came Here in the 19th century, their great grandkids, are moving to Harlem now in the same. They're living in the same buildings. And that replenishment, I think, is really fascinating and lovely about the city, but

[Aisha Roscoe]

some of the characters in the book obviously are unmoored by it. Pepper in particular is Ray's relative. He's like musc. And he is really taken aback when his bar, that's supposed to be the bar for, you know, kind of the criminals, the underworld becomes, you know, gentrified with kind of white patrons. Yuppies, I think he calls them.

[Colson Whitehead]

Yeah, it's the early 80s, so it's the rise of the yuppie. And they're seeing these new people come to their spots and wondering, why is that guy reading a New York Times? That's where the pimp sits. So Pepper, you know, he's a friendly sociopath. He's older than Ray, doesn't really get people in bell bottoms in the 70s or blaxploitation movies. And he definitely doesn't get Basquiat type painters and post punk. And the downtown scene he's embroiled in. So he's always fun to set loose on a scene, whether it's a violent moment of crime or just the uppies are taking your favorite spot at the bar.

[Aisha Roscoe]

Well, do you see Pepper as tragic, running out of time, but also getting out of. And that time is kind of maybe leaving him behind?

[Colson Whitehead]

Yeah, you know, I'm following these characters over 30 years, and they're getting older, and I have to dramatize that. So he's 65. He doesn't take a beating as well as he used to. He's always swilling his Pepto Bismol to make sure he can get through the day. And, you know, there's no pension plan for a safecracker. He doesn't have, like an IRA or 401. What's next for him?

[Aisha Roscoe]

Yeah, and this time in New York in the 80s, you remember this time, like, is were there things that you really wanted to include from your experience of that time?

[Colson Whitehead]

I was a young teenager. It was a great time to be in New York City and soak up the culture. I had a really cool older sister who introduced me to Run DMC and also Liquid Liquid esg, these downtown bands. And so I get to salute that period. And it was great to just be able to bring in some of my New York into Ray's New York.

[Aisha Roscoe]

You've written this trilogy. It's rollicking and fun, even as it deals with obviously, you know, real world issues. Racism, police violence. What can this genre still tell us about our world?

[Colson Whitehead]

Definitely, if you're someone who likes to make jokes, like me, you know you're gonna have an ironic relationship to the genre. So having fun with the supporting cast, some of the tropes and rhetoric is there's a lot of opportunities for humor. The Underground Railroad and the Nickel Boys were very sober books, but part of my project is pointing out the absurdity of life, and I get to do that in this trilogy. I get to have fun. I get to tell jokes and have a hero who's not as determined by his social circumstances as, say, the characters in Underground or Nickel Boys.

[Aisha Roscoe]

That's Coulson Whitehead. His latest book is Cool Machine. Thank you so much for being with us.

[Colson Whitehead]

That was a lot of fun. Thanks.

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