Honor Jones' 'Sleep' explores how our childhoods influence who we are as parents

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Honor Jones' Sleep

Episode Release Date: May 27, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Author Featured: Honor Jones
Book Discussed: Sleep

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Introduction to Sleep and Its Themes

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into Honor Jones' poignant novel Sleep. The conversation centers around how childhood experiences shape our identities as parents, exploring the delicate balance between safeguarding our children and fostering their independence.

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Margaret's Childhood and Its Lasting Impact

Honor Jones introduces us to the novel’s protagonist, Margaret, whose seemingly idyllic suburban upbringing masks deeper emotional challenges. Margaret’s childhood is depicted as "picture perfect" yet "perfectly awful," a duality that profoundly influences her approach to parenting.

[00:43] Mary Louise Kelly: "Is it possible to have a childhood that is both picture perfect and perfectly awful?"

Margaret’s early life is disrupted by a pivotal, disorienting event that forces her to become self-reliant and vigilant from a young age. This experience instills in her a heightened sense of caution as a parent, where she constantly grapples with protecting her children without instilling fear.

[02:06] Honor Jones: "She has to grow up protecting herself. She's very watchful and perceptive as a child, but becomes more so for practical reasons. As a mother, she's concerned with raising children to be safe without raising them to be afraid."

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The Character of Elizabeth: A Complex Maternal Figure

A central figure in Sleep is Elizabeth, Margaret's mother, who embodies a captivating yet domineering presence. Elizabeth's charisma and high expectations leave a lasting impression on Margaret, influencing her parenting style in subtle yet significant ways.

[03:05] Honor Jones: "Elizabeth is incredibly charismatic... She can be really cruel and she has these expectations of the way that she wants everyone around her to be."

Elizabeth's larger-than-life persona and her often harsh demeanor create an inner dialogue within Margaret, where she constantly measures her parenting decisions against her mother’s example. This internal conflict underscores the theme of inherited behavioral patterns and the struggle to forge one's own path.

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Balancing Protection and Independence in Parenting

The heart of Jones' novel lies in Margaret's quest to find the right balance between protecting her children and allowing them the freedom to explore and grow. This tension is vividly portrayed through everyday parenting scenarios that resonate with many listeners.

[04:09] Mary Louise Kelly: "The instantaneous lowering of expectations. It's exactly what parenting is."

A particularly memorable scene features Margaret physically restraining her daughter, Jo, from exploring a potentially dangerous situation. This moment encapsulates the constant negotiation parents face between immediate safety concerns and long-term confidence building.

[04:42] Honor Jones: "Jo cried out and clutched her arm. Oh, God, she dislocated her elbow again. What kind of mother. Never mind. It was fine."

Margaret’s actions reflect her fears of both overprotecting and underprotecting her children, highlighting the universal parental struggle to make the right decisions in the moment.

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Managing Parental Aspirations and Realities

Jones deftly explores the dichotomy between parents' high aspirations for their children and the often messy reality of daily life. This theme is brought to life through conversations that reveal the emotional labor involved in setting and adjusting expectations.

[05:13] Mary Louise Kelly: "You're gonna go to the museum... by the end of the day, you're like, nope, it's chicken nuggets and Cartoon Network and it's fine."

This relatable depiction underscores the theme that, despite our best intentions, parenting often involves compromise and acceptance of imperfections.

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Honor Jones on Her Writing Process and Style

Mary Louise Kelly commends Jones for her "beautiful" and "spare" writing style, which effectively conveys deep emotions without unnecessary embellishment. Jones shares insights into her editorial process, emphasizing the importance of conciseness and precision in her narrative.

[06:11] Honor Jones: "I start incredibly condensed and then I have to add... then I edit myself back down again."

Jones discusses how she balances descriptive language with the need for clarity, ensuring that each word serves a purpose in advancing the story and deepening the reader's emotional engagement.

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Conclusion: A Profound Exploration of Parenthood

Honor Jones' Sleep offers a nuanced examination of how our pasts shape our present as parents. Through Margaret's journey, the novel invites readers to reflect on their own experiences and the delicate balance required to nurture their children while allowing them the space to grow independently.

[06:48] Mary Louise Kelly: "Honor Jones, talking about her debut novel, Sleep. Thank you so much."

This episode of NPR's Book of the Day provides a thoughtful and in-depth look at a novel that captures the complexities of modern parenthood, making it a must-read for anyone interested in the intersection of personal history and familial relationships.

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Listen to the full episode and explore more incredible books at NPR's Book of the Day.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. There's a moment that happens on the playground pretty often where you're talking to a fellow parent and one of your kids starts to do something not dangerous per se, but is on the way towards dangerous. And then you have to table your discussion and have a quick side chat about should we stop this? I don't know. It's good for them to explore. Ah, but they might get hurt. Oh, but if I step in, they might never become a confident adult. You know, that sort of thing. That balance of parenting is what author Honor Jones is exploring in her new novel Sleep. Up Ahead, she talks to NPR's Mary Louise Kelly about writing a book full of second guessing and lowering expectations. That's coming up.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

Is it possible to have a childhood that is both picture perfect and perfectly awful? And if so, how much of the baggage will you end up carrying 20 plus years later when you have children of your own? Honor Jones explores these questions in a quietly, profoundly beautiful new novel titled Sleep. Honor Jones. Hi.

[Honor Jones]

Hi.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Hi. I'm gonna let you take the lead here on how much to give away of the secrets in your protagonist Margaret's past. So you paint us a picture of how I just described it, this picture perfect but also perfectly awful childhood. Tell me about it.

[Honor Jones]

Yeah, so she grows up, she has this kind of wonderful best friend who also follows her through life. And you know, she has a family and a brother and she's growing up in sort of this verdant suburban world. But something happens that's really disorienting and she isn't protected. So she sort of has to grow up protecting herself. And she's very watchful and like perceptive as a child, but I think becomes more so for practical reasons. So she turns into, as a mother, someone very concerned with the question of how you raise children to be Safe without raising them to be afraid and like, what the right level of vigilance is, which is, I think, something that all parents worry about.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah. All right. You said something happened and she is not protected. So I have to ask you about, to me, the other central character in this novel, which is the mother, Elizabeth. Describe Elizabeth.

[Honor Jones]

Well, she's incredibly charismatic. She sort of does have this magic about her. And her daughter, like, never stops being obsessed with her. I mean, she's larger than life. She's also very domineering and she's mean just to.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Just to state it plainly.

[Andrew Limbong]

She's really mean.

[Honor Jones]

She's cruel. You're right. It's so funny that I didn't, like, lead with that. She can be really cruel and she has these expectations of the way that she wants everyone around her to be.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah. To what extent does that inform how Margaret raises her own daughters, the granddaughters in this family?

[Honor Jones]

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of this she has her mother in the back of her head, I think, as all of us do, when, you know, the kid wants candy and you're like, yes or no? What would my own mother do? How can I do the opposite of that thing? And then you make the wrong decision, you know, so she's, she's, you know, she's growing, she's raising children in the city and she's divorced. And, you know, it's not the picture perfect life, but it is really fun in a lot of ways. And there's an openness and freedom to it, but she's always second guessing herself.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There's a scene that shot me through with recognition. I'm gonna let you read it to me, but just to set us up. This is Margaret, grown up Margaret. She and her girls are walking to school and one of the girls spots. Cause again, they're in New York City. Spots a dead rat in the gutter. And of course, this is the greatest thing ever. She wants to go investigate. And Margaret, the mom, yanks her back, yanks her so hard she fears she has dislocated her daughter's shoulder. Would you read us just those few lines starting with I wanna see, I want to see.

[Honor Jones]

Jo said again and tried to twist away, but Margaret held onto her hand and for a moment they both pulled in opposite directions until Jo cried out and clutched her arm. Oh, God, she dislocated her elbow again. No. How could she let this. What kind of mother. Never mind. It was fine. It was totally fine. Jo's arm was moving normally by her side. In Margaret's relief, she no longer minded about the rat. So much of parenting was this. The instantaneous lowering of expectations. Her children were safe. Nothing else mattered.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I know that feeling so well. The instantaneous lowering of expectations. It's exactly what parenting is. As a mother myself, you start out so many days, you have these highbrow aspirations. You're gonna go to the museum. You're gonna do something educational. You're gonna have this nutritious leafy green extravaganza for dinner. And by the end of the day, you're like, nope, it's chicken nuggets and Cartoon Network and it's fine.

[Honor Jones]

Yeah. Yeah. You're constantly checking, like, what actually matters and being sort of put in your place about your aspirations.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah. So your writing, I called your novel beautiful. And it is. The writing is very spare. Even when, maybe especially when you are describing vast, overwhelming emotion. Do you start Honor Jones with a, with a more flowery sentence and prune it back or how does it work?

[Honor Jones]

I don't actually, I don't know if this is like the editor in me, but I start incredibly condensed and then I have to add. So I wrote things very tightly and then I thought, oh, there's more to say here, or this can breathe more. And then it would get longer. And then of course, you edit yourself back down again to something. But I did edit some things out. I think I described like light playing on a surface like 300 times in the draft. And I had to do, I did have to go through and search for the word light, then take a bunch.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Out, be like, enough. It has refracted, refracted, reflected, shimmered, and we're moving.

[Honor Jones]

It's done. All I can do.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Honor Jones, talking about her debut novel, Sleep. Honor Jones, thank you so much.

[Honor Jones]

Thank you.

[Andrew Limbong]

And just a reminder that signing up for Book of the Day plus is a great way to support NPR's book coverage and public media. And you'll get to listen to every episode. Seven sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org bookoftheday.

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