NPR's Book of the Day – Episode Summary

Episode: "I Am You" fictionalizes the story of a Dutch Golden Age painter and her maid
Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Linda Holmes
Guest: Victoria Redel (author)
Main Theme:
A conversation with Victoria Redel about her historical novel I Am You, which reimagines the lives of 17th-century Dutch painter Maria van Oosterwijk and her assistant/governess Goethe (Goetje) Peters, exploring their work, relationship, and the blend of fact and fiction in telling women’s stories from history.

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Victoria Redel's novel I Am You, which takes sparse historical facts about two women—Maria van Oosterwijk and Goethe Peters—in 17th-century Amsterdam, and spins them into a lush, imaginative narrative. Redel and the host discuss the challenges of balancing historical faithfulness with storytelling, the physical realities and gendered dynamics of the Dutch Golden Age art world, and the power, intimacy, and rivalry in the women’s relationship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Story & Historical Sparseness

• Redel’s Inspiration:
  • A passing mention in Russell Shorto's Amsterdam: A History of the World's Most Liberal City sparked her interest.

    “I was heading to Amsterdam, and there was a line that said… little is known of the painter Maria von Oosterwijk. But it went on to say she was renowned in her day… And I stumbled upon the other piece of information… that she had a servant who became her paint preparer and then an assistant in her workshop…” — Victoria Redel [03:03]

• What’s Known & Imagined:
  • Both women lived together for years; neither married, and Goethe progressed from servant to painter.
  • Redel fills in the emotional and creative gaps: “I thought that life, whatever happened between those two women, neither married, which was truly unusual for a woman painter in that time period. They lived together. That’s intriguing to me.” (Victoria Redel [03:44])

2. Crafting Relationship and Intimacy

• Developing the Relationship:
  • Redel’s storytelling lets the intimacy “develop between them in complicated ways… brings them closer and closer into what eventually also becomes a complex envy producing rivalrous, devoted love.” (Victoria Redel [03:59])
• Atmosphere and Sensuality:
  • The novel evokes a tactile, sensory world:

    “This is the Dutch Golden Age ... everything wonderful came through our port ... And Goethe watches as Maria, in a shaft of sunlight, rolls an egg, breaks it, pulls the runny yolk like taffy. Beautiful, says Maria. And sensual, I thought.” — Robin Young [04:27]

3. The World of 17th-Century Painting

• Making Paint and the Physical World:
  • Redel describes a hands-on approach to painting—making paint from scratch with “poppy seeds and honey,” and drawing beauty from transformation and decay.

    “To love color is to love decay... The painter’s palette is a ruthless art. I delighted in breaking one thing down, and then days or weeks later, my nose to a jar, breathing for the exact fetid shift, rot and wane. Beauty is transformation. Often a messy one at that.” — Victoria Redel (reading from novel, as Goethe) [06:01]

• Restrictions on Women Artists:
  • The episode notes that women like Maria were restricted to still lifes, often as vanitas (symbol-laden compositions commissioned by merchants):

    “They weren’t allowed in the painter’s guild … They made these still lifes of flowers and also large tables... They were usually painted for merchants.” — Victoria Redel [07:22]

4. Fictionalizing the Personal: Lovers and Power

• Navigating the Historical Record:
  • Some speculate on Goethe’s role: did she contribute to Maria’s artwork? Were they lovers? While museums phrase it as “records confirm [Maria] remained single and was primarily devoted to her career,” Redel pushes back:

    “As if that’s mutually exclusive, right?” — Victoria Redel [08:39]

• Why Write Them as Lovers?:
  • Redel felt it was plausible and didn’t hesitate:

    “It seemed to me plausible that they were lovers. And I went there.” — Victoria Redel [08:45]

• Queerness in Context:
  • Context of secrecy: “In the Dutch Golden Age, homosexuality was forbidden. It was punishable by being sent to prison. You could be killed for it. That's never stopped women from loving women. It's never stopped men from loving men.” — Victoria Redel [09:10]

5. Ambition, Rivalry, and Artistic Creation

• Shared Studio, Intertwined Ambitions:
  • Goethe's devotion and Maria's ambition sometimes come to odds:

    "Her primary devotion is her belief in Maria’s greatness as a painter. But her own sensibility as an artist, her own ambition, knocks up against Maria’s ambition. And I wanted to think about and allow women to have a huge range of ambition... along with ... unkindness, ... secrecy." — Victoria Redel [09:35]

• Painting as Emotional Expression:
  • The act of painting stands in for emotional complexity:

    “It might as well have been a portrait of all the love and grief, the knowing and confusion. I painted all the apologies we owed one another, as any two who have lived side by side owe...”— Robin Young quoting Goethe’s narration [10:42]

6. Legacy and Rediscovery

• Recognition at Last:
  • For the first time, Maria van Oosterwijk’s painting is now exhibited at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, a fact Redel finds significant:

    “For the first time in Amsterdam there’s a painting by Maria van Oosterwijk. And that seems wonderful and important and worth celebrating.” — Victoria Redel [11:48]

7. What Redel Hopes Readers Take Away

• Redel’s wish:

  “The hope that these two women, who were not always easy women, are given the same kind of opportunity and aliveness that we afford to ruthless male painters, but also that they’re given the complications in their relationships of any two people who have a long life together.” — Victoria Redel [11:20]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the sensuality and labor of art:

  “To love color is to love decay... The painter's palette is a ruthless art. I delighted in breaking one thing down, and then... breathing for the exact fetid shift, rot and wane. Beauty is transformation. Often a messy one at that.”
  — Victoria Redel (reading as Goethe) [06:01]

• On filling historical silences:

  “I thought it was really... plausible that they were lovers. And I went there.”
  — Victoria Redel [08:45]

• On ambition and complexity for women artists:

  “I wanted to think about and allow women to have a huge range of ambition, the perils that come along with that, the unkindness that comes along with that... secrecy.”
  — Victoria Redel [09:35]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:02 | Introduction and overview of Maria van Oosterwijk and Goethe Peters | | 03:03 | Redel recounts her inspiration and the “unknown woman artist” trope | | 04:27 | Host highlights the novel’s sensual, physical world | | 06:01 | Redel reads a vivid paint-mixing passage from her novel | | 07:22 | Historical context: women’s roles and limitations in art | | 08:39 | Discussion of rumors/speculation about their relationship/labor | | 09:10 | Historical peril/possibility of queerness in 17th century | | 10:42 | Painting as emotional storytelling and relationship metaphor | | 11:20 | Redel’s hope for her readers | | 11:48 | Recognition of Maria van Oosterwijk’s painting in Rijksmuseum | | 12:05 | Closing and thank you |

Summary in the Tone of the Episode

This episode of NPR’s Book of the Day is both an excavation and a celebration: it gives voice to two women whose lives and work history nearly erased and lets Victoria Redel imagine what might have been—the intense, messy, sensual lives lived behind the still lifes. Anchored by rich, poetic language and a refusal to settle for simplistic answers, the conversation honors the women’s artistry and audacity, and the transformative, sometimes fraught intimacy that defines their story. As Redel puts it: “Beauty is transformation. Often a messy one at that.” I Am You makes vivid what history glosses over, asking listeners and readers to embrace complexity—both in art and in life.