In Ali Smith's 'Gliff,' two children flee capture in an authoritarian near-future

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Summary of Episode on Ali Smith's 'Glyph'

Episode Title: In Ali Smith's 'Glyph,' two children flee capture in an authoritarian near-future
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong
Guest: Ali Smith, Novelist and Playwright

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Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong engages with acclaimed author Ali Smith to delve into her latest dystopian young adult (YA) novel, 'Glyph'. Ali Smith, known for her award-winning works including the Orwell Prize-winning novel Summer, discusses themes of authoritarianism, the erosion of knowledge, and the influence of her past career in advertising on her writing.

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Exploring 'Glyph' and Authoritarianism

Ali Smith introduces 'Glyph' as a dystopian YA novel set in an authoritarian regime. The story follows two children, Brian and his sister Rose, who become unverifiables—individuals who cannot be identified by devices and data. The narrative begins with their mother leaving them due to a family emergency, leading them to escape and seek refuge in a nearby field where horses graze.

Notable Quote:

"There’s been an incredible loss of libraries in the UK. I presume it's the same in the US—that library culture is fading away."
— Ali Smith [03:20]

Smith emphasizes how the loss of libraries symbolizes a broader decline in access to knowledge, contrasting with the superficial abundance of information available online.

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Ali Smith's Perspective on Libraries and Knowledge

The conversation shifts to the role of libraries in society. Smith laments the disappearance of libraries, highlighting their importance as repositories of knowledge that were once freely accessible to everyone. She differentiates between information and knowledge, illustrating that the former is surface-level data, while the latter represents deep understanding.

Notable Quote:

"The difference between information and knowledge is the difference between an ice covering across a really deep loch and the depth of that loch."
— Ali Smith [03:55]

Smith argues that libraries foster a democratic and open access to knowledge, a stark contrast to the controlled and shallow information disseminated online.

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The Allure of Authoritarianism

Smith discusses how authoritarian regimes often present themselves as providers of safety and order, making them inherently attractive to individuals seeking stability. However, this facade collapses when the regime's authority no longer aligns with the people's desires or needs, leading to resistance.

Notable Quote:

"Authoritarianism seems safe. It seems like, yeah, that's it. There's a code, there's a way to live and that's the way."
— Ali Smith [04:42]

She underscores the seductive nature of authoritarianism, highlighting its promise of simplicity and security, which can be appealing in uncertain times.

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Ali Smith's Advertising Background

Transitioning from her literary career, Ali Smith reveals her previous experience as an advertising copywriter. She recounts crafting slogans for Scottish banks and Paterson Bronte biscuits, demonstrating her knack for concise and impactful messaging.

Notable Quote:

"The word slogan is a version of a Scottish Gaelic word connected to warfare and war cries. Slogans are directly descended from the noises that one tribe makes when it's facing another."
— Ali Smith [06:11]

Smith explains that slogans tap into the tribal instincts inherent in humans, which is why they are so effective in advertising.

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The Power of Slogans and Tribalism

Delving deeper into the concept of slogans, Smith draws a parallel between modern advertising and ancient war cries. She suggests that the effectiveness of slogans lies in their ability to resonate with our tribal nature, making them memorable and persuasive.

Notable Quote:

"Almost everything about slogans can be connected to the tribal in us, which is why they work so well in us."
— Ali Smith [06:44]

This insight highlights the subtle psychological mechanisms that make advertising compelling, tying back to her observations on authoritarianism's appeal.

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The Purpose of Fiction and Reading

When asked about the motivations behind readers choosing her books, Smith remains humble, expressing uncertainty about her audience's intentions. However, she emphasizes her love for fiction as a means to articulate complex truths and explore profound, often inexpressible, aspects of the human experience.

Notable Quote:

"There is a kind of truth that can't be said any other way. It is ever, ever hopeful, regardless of its sometimes very dark subject matter."
— Ali Smith [06:53]

Smith believes that fiction serves as a hopeful endeavor, offering insights and understanding even when dealing with bleak or challenging topics.

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Conclusion

In 'Glyph', Ali Smith masterfully intertwines themes of authoritarianism, the loss of knowledge, and the enduring human spirit through the journey of two children navigating a repressive society. Her discussion reveals a deep concern for the erosion of democratic access to knowledge and the seductive nature of authoritarian control. Additionally, her background in advertising provides a unique lens through which she examines the power of language and its impact on society.

Ali Smith's 'Glyph' promises to be a thought-provoking addition to YA dystopian literature, offering readers both a cautionary tale and a hopeful narrative about the resilience of knowledge and individuality in the face of oppressive forces.

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Closing Notes:
This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of Ali Smith's latest work, shedding light on her thematic concerns and the influences shaping her storytelling. For fans of dystopian fiction and those interested in the intersections of literature, society, and psychology, 'Glyph' offers a rich and engaging reading experience.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Ali Smith's new book, Glyph is a dystopian YA novel set in an authoritarian regime. She spends the first half of this interview with npr Scott Simon talking about that how easy it is to actually be seduced by authoritarianism. But then in the second half, they start talking about Smith's previous career as an advertising copywriter. And she says something about how slogans work because they connect to something tribal in Inside all of us, which makes me wonder if she learned a thing or two about authoritarianism from her time in advertising. That's ahead.

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[Scott Simon]

Brian and their sister Rose are unverifiables. Red line is painted around their house after their mother leaves on a family emergency. But they find a place in which to squat where the horses that graze in an adjacent field lift their eyes and hearts to someplace else. Glyph is the name they give a horse and is the title of a new novel from Ali Smith. The novelist and playwright won the Orwell Prize for political fiction for her novel Summer, and she is sometimes called Scotland's Nobel Laureate in waiting.

[Ali Smith]

Oh, don't say that.

[Scott Simon]

Thanks so much for being with us.

[Ali Smith]

It's such a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[Scott Simon]

Scott, who are and what are the unverifiables in this society?

[Ali Smith]

Oh, and the society in the book. People like these two kids who are like 11 and 13 who come home and find that something or someone has painted around their house a red paint line. They have no idea what it means. But the chap who's looking after them, that's their mother's partner, gathers them up, loads them into their camper van, they drive off to think, well, what will we do next? And they park in one of the supermarket car parks, 24 hour supermarket. And when they wake up in the morning, there's a red painted line round their van and they find that they are now designated unverifiable.

[Scott Simon]

Unverifiable meaning devices and data can't ID.

[Ali Smith]

Them unverifiable, meaning that they're unverifiable. They're called the UVs, the unverifiables. And these kids are. They're not very tech savvy. Their mother has kept them away from tech for much of their lives against their will, especially Bri, the older of the kids who loves tech and wants to use it. But their mother has decided that they should use books and dictionaries and try and look things up, not just on a screen.

[Scott Simon]

In this society in which your characters live and we accompany them, there are no libraries. The environment seems to be falling apart. Somebody. Someone seems to know everything. Do people take that for granted? Are they kind of reconciled to what we see as authoritarianism?

[Ali Smith]

Oh, hey. Well, this is a book about exactly that. There's been an incredible loss of libraries in the uk. I don't know. I presume it's the same in, in the US that there's a fading away of a library culture. People have decided that information is what libraries are for. If anything, information, it's not the same as knowledge. And the thing about libraries was that knowledge was at any single person in the world's fingertips as soon as they entered a library. And it was free and it was for everyone and it was that democratically open.

[Scott Simon]

But I mean, that's what the Internet's supposed to be too, isn't it?

[Ali Smith]

So, yeah, the Internet is a great source of information until there's the information that it doesn't have on it that you go to look for and it isn't there. And what control do we have over that? And plus, you know, the difference between information and knowledge is the difference between an ice covering across a really deep loch and the depth of that loch. That's the difference between knowing information and having knowledge. It is dimensional and my God, as human beings we need dimension. We are dimensional and we live by our dimensionality rather than the things which suggest to us that we are simply surface.

[Scott Simon]

One point we turned the page and you hit us with the words Brave New world. Authoritarian states always come in with the promise that they will make life brighter and better, don't they?

[Ali Smith]

Oh, that's the lovely thing about authority, isn't it? Doesn't it feel like someone's in charge? It's very attractive, authoritarianism. It seems safe. It seems like, yeah, that's it. There's a. There's a code, there's a way to live and that's the way. And we go with that leader until that authority doesn't suit the life that many people or some people or anyone would like to live. Then you're up against authority, authoritarianism.

[Scott Simon]

I, of course, mentioned that big literary prize of which you are often spoken about. But I also see you were once an advertising copywriter.

[Ali Smith]

I was. How did you find that out?

[Scott Simon]

From the Internet.

[Ali Smith]

From the Internet. See what I mean?

[Scott Simon]

Do you remember any lines from ads that you wrote?

[Ali Smith]

I so do my brother in his earlier incarnation in his life, he ran an advertising company. He started working in advertising and eventually had his own company. And he asked me to do some work for him repeatedly. So I wrote copy for Scottish banks and I wrote copy for Paterson Bronte biscuits. I wrote little poems for them. The poem for I think it was November ran the autumn leaves are falling fast. The winter's almost back. Buy Paterson Bronte Golden Crunch, the perfect fireside snack.

[Scott Simon]

I'm deeply moved.

[Ali Smith]

Oh, you see the effect advertising has on us. You know what the words, the word slogan is a version of a Scottish Gaelic word. Do you know what it means?

[Scott Simon]

No.

[Ali Smith]

It's connected to the English word slughorn because it comes from a Gaelic word that sounds more like sluggern. And sluggern and slughorn meant a war cry. So slogans are directly descended from warfare and war cries, the noise that one tribe makes when it's facing another and it blows its horn going da, da. Bye, Paterson Bronte, Golden Crunch, the perfect fireside snack. Ta da. Almost everything about slogans can be connected to the tribal in us, which is why they work so well in us.

[Scott Simon]

Do you find people read your books, including, of course, notably this one, glyph, because they want a view of the future or a view of the future they want to avoid?

[Ali Smith]

I honestly don't know. I really don't know. I mean, I know I read books because I love reading fiction in particular. There is a kind of truth that can't be said any other way. I think it finds a way to say the things which are either inarticulable or being stopped from being said or are very, very, very difficult to articulate. I love that about fiction. It is ever, ever hopeful, regardless of its sometimes very dark subject matter.

[Scott Simon]

Ali Smith, your new novel, Glyph, thank you so much for being with us.

[Ali Smith]

Thank you, Scott, and what a pleasure to talk to you. This message comes from Best Western hotels and Resorts. From Adventures to New Places, Best Western has you covered. With over 4,000 hotels worldwide, you're sure to find the right hotel for your next getaway. Life's a trip. Make the most of [e-mail] this message.

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