In his new novel ‘The Secret of Secrets,’ Dan Brown takes on human consciousness

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day — Episode Summary

Episode Title: In his new novel ‘The Secret of Secrets,’ Dan Brown takes on human consciousness
Air Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong
Guest: Dan Brown, interviewed by Scott Detrow

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Episode Overview

This episode features an engaging conversation with best-selling author Dan Brown about his new thriller, The Secret of Secrets. Known for his Robert Langdon series (The Da Vinci Code, Angels and Demons), Brown’s latest novel shifts from religious and historical mysteries to tackle the profound subject of human consciousness and what happens after we die. In an interview with NPR’s Scott Detrow, Brown discusses the roots of his fascination with noetic science, how personal loss shaped his writing, and the transformation of his own beliefs about life, consciousness, and death.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Return of Robert Langdon

• [01:22] Scott Detrow reminds listeners that Robert Langdon, the clever Harvard professor famous for unraveling ancient conspiracies while evading danger, is back in Brown’s new novel.
• In The Secret of Secrets, Langdon is drawn into the world of consciousness and noetic science, moving beyond the mysteries of Christianity and Freemasonry that defined earlier books.

2. Langdon's Character Evolution

• [02:05] Brown explains Langdon’s character has “aged much more slowly” than the author himself, humorously noting the time it took to write the book (eight years).
• Unlike previous stories, Langdon is pulled out of his comfort zone by Kathryn Solomon, a noetic scientist, and “becomes a believer in aspects of consciousness that… seem quite out of this world.” (Dan Brown, 02:20)

3. The Novel’s Central Theme: Consciousness

• [02:44] Brown emphasizes his fascination with big, sweeping topics, calling consciousness “the lens through which we see reality.”
• The character of Kathryn Solomon and real-life noetic science inspired the novel, as Brown’s research led him to question the boundaries of reality and what the human mind can truly influence.

4. Explaining Noetic Science

• [03:28] Brown: “Noetic science is the study of consciousness and more specifically the study of how the human mind can affect physical matter.”
• The field’s rapid evolution makes it challenging to keep the novel scientifically current, but Brown insists its insights are universal: “It is relevant to every single person on earth.” (Dan Brown, 03:44)

5. Consciousness, Death, and Personal Transformation

• [04:19] Brown shares that the loss of his mother during the book’s early stages personally affected his outlook, fueling his research into consciousness, out-of-body and near-death experiences, and the scientific case for consciousness surviving physical death.
• “I came out the other end with a totally changed point of view. And I’ve changed dramatically in my view of death. I no longer fear death at all. I’m in no hurry. I love life.” (Dan Brown, 04:23)
• Brown directly credits his changed perspective on death to both the process of research and the loss of his mother.

6. A Newfound Belief in Life After Death

• [05:07] On whether he believes consciousness survives death:
  • “Eight years ago I would have… said death is the end, full stop. Total blackness… Today I’m 100% convinced that… your consciousness will survive beyond your physical death.” (Dan Brown, 05:07)
• Brown stresses that his conviction comes not from spiritual experiences, but “enormous amounts of reading and conversations with specialists in the field” and those who’ve had near-death or out-of-body experiences. (Dan Brown, 05:36)

7. A Lighthearted Finale: Langdon vs. Indiana Jones

• [06:01] Detrow asks whether Brown would rather attend Professor Langdon’s or Professor Indiana Jones’s class.
• Brown’s response: “You would win either way. Any teacher that can incite a bit of curiosity in his or her students is doing a pretty good job.” (Dan Brown, 06:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the scope of his latest novel:
  “There really is no topic bigger that I can imagine than consciousness.”
  — Dan Brown, [02:44]

• On overcoming skepticism:
  “I started this book in a very skeptical place… and I came out the other end with a totally changed point of view.”
  — Dan Brown, [04:19]

• On life after death:
  “Today I’m 100% convinced that the consciousness… will survive beyond your physical death.”
  — Dan Brown, [05:07]

• On teaching and curiosity:
  “Any teacher that can incite a bit of curiosity in his or her students is doing a pretty good job.”
  — Dan Brown, [06:15]

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [01:22] — Introduction of Robert Langdon and The Secret of Secrets
• [02:05] — How Langdon’s character has evolved
• [02:44] — Brown on the importance of consciousness and origins of Kathryn Solomon
• [03:28] — Explaining noetic science in layman’s terms
• [04:19] — Personal impact of loss and Brown’s changing views on death
• [05:07] — Brown’s belief in consciousness surviving death
• [06:01] — Professor Langdon vs. Professor Indiana Jones

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Conclusion

This episode dives deep into the philosophical and personal motivations behind Dan Brown’s The Secret of Secrets. The author reveals a vulnerable, open-minded side, sharing how research and personal loss have fundamentally reshaped his worldview—not just as a writer, but as a person confronting the mysteries of consciousness and mortality.
Whether you’re a fan of thrillers, fascinated by the mind, or grappling with big existential questions yourself, this conversation offers thoughtful insight and a very personal glimpse into what keeps one of the world’s most famous authors coming back to life’s biggest mysteries.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. I was in high school when the Da Vinci Code Fever hit. It was one of those books that was just everywhere. I'd actually be hard pressed to think of a novel since that's had such a large cultural impact. Well, the book's author, Dan Brown is back at it again with a follow up. This one is called the Secret of Secrets. And listen, at the end of the day, these are mystery thrillers, right? But in this interview with NPR's Scott Detrow, it's clear that Brown is just using using the genre as a vehicle to ask some really big questions about human consciousness and what really happens after we die. That's ahead.

[B]

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[C]

Go to shopify.com NPR Robert Langdon is back in action. The dashing and brilliant Harvard professor who has a knack for wandering into situations where he unearths big philosophical questions and at the same time gets chased around by bad guys who do not want those questions answered. Langdon is, of course, the recurring main character in author Dan Brown's thrillers, the Da Vinci Code, Angels and Demons and many others. In Brown's latest novel, the Secret of Secrets, Langdon has traded the mysteries of Christianity and the mysteries of Freemasonry for the even bigger mystery of the nature of human consciousness. Dan Brown, welcome to ALL THINGS considered.

[D]

Thanks for having me.

[C]

So this is, by my count, your sixth book starring Robert Langdon. How has he changed over the years?

[D]

Well, he's aging much, much more slowly than I am. I've sensed. This book took eight years to write. And Langdon, who is always he's always skeptical about all things conspiratorial and paranormal and all that sort of stuff. And in this book he is sort of dragged out of his comfort box by a noetic scientist named Kathryn Solomon, and he becomes a believer in aspects of consciousness that to most of us myself Included seem quite out of this world.

[C]

I want to ask about the topic of the book. How much were you personally thinking about these big questions of consciousness? Was that how the book started out? Is that something you were wrestling with or wondering about and wanting to learn more about?

[D]

Absolutely. I mean, it's no secret. I like to write about big, sweeping important topics. There really is no topic bigger that I can imagine than consciousness. It's the lens through which we see reality, see ourselves, see our interactions with other people. And I wrote the character Kathryn Solomon maybe 10 or 12 years ago as an ancillary character in another book. And she was a Noetic scientist. And through the research for that book, I started to learn about Noetic science and some of these mind experiments who have results that are simply. You cannot believe them. You hear what the result is and you say that's impossible. And you read more and you find out that reality is a much stranger thing than we ever imagined.

[C]

For those of us who aren't as familiar, can you briefly explain Noetic science?

[D]

Nordic science is the study of consciousness and more specifically the study of how the human mind can affect physical matter. It has really taken me almost two decades to learn enough to write the book. And of course it's a rapidly evolving field, so you're constantly playing catch up. But yeah, this is a topic that I'm fascinated with and it is relevant to every single person on earth. You know, the Da Vinci Code resonated with Christians and people who thought a lot about religion. This, you know, we all, we all, for one, we all fear death. It is the great unknown. And that sort of catch 22 question where we're all going to find out the answer, we just can't get back to tell anybody what it is.

[C]

How much time do you spend thinking about that? Because that's something a character says at one point. That interest in consciousness comes directly from fear of dying or worry about dying.

[D]

I started this book in a very skeptical place. Skeptical of a lot of this science and some of these new ideas about consciousness. And I came out the other end with a totally changed point of view. And I've changed dramatically in my view of death. I no longer fear death at all. I'm in no hurry. I love life. And probably not coincidentally, my mom died eight years ago right as I started this book. And it really was a catalyst. As I started to learn more and more about out of body experiences and near death experiences and some of the physics that is really suggesting, if not proving that our consciousness can survive the death of our physical body, which of course has enormous implications for everyone. On a personal level, can I ask.

[C]

And so many characters in the book ask each other this do you believe that at this point I do.

[D]

And eight years ago I would have given you a totally different answer. I would have said death is the end, full stop. Total blackness, the end. You've basically cut the cable to the computer and it's off. You asked me today and I'm 100% convinced that the consciousness, whether you want to call it the soul or whatever you want to call it, your consciousness, will survive beyond your physical death. And you know that's a high level.

[C]

Of certainty for the biggest unknown in existence.

[D]

You know what it is. And I should also stress I have not had a spiritual experience. I have not had an out of body experience, a religious experience. This is simply based on on enormous amounts of reading and conversations with specialists in the field as well as people who have had these experiences and are really walking their talk. They come back from out of body experiences and change their lives in fascinating ways.

[C]

Lastly, getting back to Robert Langdon's day job, which shows up in your books more than other professor day job shows up in movies. If you were a college student, would you rather be in Professor Langdon's class or Professor Indiana Jones class?

[D]

You know what? I think you would win either way. Any teacher that can incite a bit of curiosity in his or her students is doing a pretty good job.

[C]

There you go. That was author Dan Brown. His new book, Secret of Secrets is out today. Thank you so much and thanks so.

[D]

Much for having me.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

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