Irish poet Pádraig Ó Tuama writes and reads poetry that speaks to the human condition

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Exploring Human Connection through Poetry with Padraig Ó Tuama

In the February 26, 2025 episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Mary Louise Kelly engages in a profound conversation with Irish poet Padraig Ó Tuama. The episode delves into Ó Tuama's latest anthology, 44 Poems on Being with Each Other, and his own poetry collection, Kitchen Hymns. Through their dialogue, listeners gain deep insights into the human condition as expressed through poetry, exploring themes of connection, belief, and longing.

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Introduction to Padraig Ó Tuama and His Work

Mary Louise Kelly introduces Padraig Ó Tuama as a poet and seer, emphasizing his unique ability to see the world through poetry. Ó Tuama not only compiles poems but also reads them on his podcast, Poetry Unbound. His new anthology, 44 Poems on Being with Each Other, focuses on the complexities of human connections, capturing both the pain and pleasure that accompany relationships.

Key Quote:

“The Irish word fille means both poet and seer. For Padraig Ó Tuama, seeing the world through poetry is a calling.”
— Mary Louise Kelly [01:11]

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Curating the Anthology: Selection and Themes

Ó Tuama discusses the meticulous process behind selecting the 44 poems for his anthology. He humorously mentions using spreadsheets—a seemingly contradictory method for handling poetry—to categorize poems that reflect various aspects of being with others or oneself. The selection spans joyful connections, painful experiences, grief, and the necessity of solitude, aiming to present a comprehensive exploration of the human experience.

Key Quote:

“I was curious about how it is that poetry could speak to all kinds of experiences of the human condition.”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [02:00]

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Spotlight on "Fear and Love" by Jim Moore

One of the standout poems discussed is "Fear and Love" by Jim Moore. Ó Tuama reads the poem, highlighting its emotional depth and the delicate balance between vulnerability and strength in human interactions. He reflects on the poem's portrayal of how close relationships can both uplift and challenge us, emphasizing the mutual influence we exert on one another.

Excerpt from the Poem:

“Fear and love, a friend said in an impromptu speech at a surprise birthday party. We all live caught between fear and love.”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [02:41]

Analysis:

“We're so close to each other, we can hurt each other, we can change each other, and we can show each other what we're able to see from our points of view if we'd only dare to demand or ask or offer.”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [04:00]

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Personal Anecdotes and the Conversational Nature of Poetry

Ó Tuama elaborates on his tendency to include personal anecdotes alongside his analyses of poems. This approach aims to create a conversational experience, allowing readers to feel as though the poems are in dialogue with their own lives. By sharing his personal reflections, he illustrates how poetry can serve as a secular liturgy, providing comfort and resonance in everyday experiences.

Key Quote:

“Poetry can provide that sometimes [a small secular liturgy for our lives].”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [05:41]

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Introducing "Kitchen Hymns": A Collection Structured Like a Ghost Mass

Mary Louise Kelly transitions the conversation to Ó Tuama's own poetry collection, Kitchen Hymns. She references the book's description: “Structured like a ghost Mass, where God has disappeared, but longing still has things to say.”

Key Quote:

“I'm mostly interested in hearing what you don't think it means, where God has disappeared, but longing still has things to say.”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [06:14]

Ó Tuama explains that the concept of a "ghost Mass" symbolizes the enduring human longing for connection and meaning, independent of formal religious structures. He emphasizes that prayer and yearning are intrinsic to the human heart, whether or not one adheres to organized religion.

Key Quote:

“God is just a noise we make to contain something about what it is we long for and our relationship with our longing.”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [06:21]

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Exploring Faith and Doubt: "Do You Believe in God?"

A significant portion of Kitchen Hymns is dedicated to poems titled "Do You Believe in God?" Ó Tuama discusses the challenges and nuances of this pervasive question, particularly its historically aggressive connotations from evangelical missionaries in Cork, where he grew up. He seeks to reframe the question into a profound exchange rather than a trap, focusing on the relational aspect encapsulated in the word "you."

Key Quote:

“I'm less interested in the word believe and much more interested in the word you.”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [07:03]

Ó Tuama reads one of the poems, which beautifully captures the essence of seeking direction and understanding in the face of existential questions.

Excerpt from the Poem:

“Do you believe in God? I turn to you not because I trust you or believe in you, but because I need a direction for my need...”
— Padraig Ó Tuama [07:56]

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Conclusion: The Power of Poetry in Chaotic Times

As the episode wraps up, Mary Louise Kelly thanks Ó Tuama for sharing moments of beauty through his poetry amidst the chaos of modern life. Ó Tuama's work, both in his anthology and his own collections, serves as a testament to the enduring power of poetry to navigate and articulate the complexities of human relationships and inner longing.

Key Quote:

“Thank you for a moment of beauty in a chaotic moment.”
— Mary Louise Kelly [08:49]

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Through this insightful episode, listeners are invited to reflect on their own experiences of connection and belief, guided by the evocative words of Padraig Ó Tuama. Whether seeking solace, understanding, or inspiration, NPR's Book of the Day offers a meaningful exploration of poetry's role in shaping our perceptions of the human condition.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. For my money, the best way to read poetry is to read it out loud yourself. The second best way to read poetry is to listen to someone reading poetry, someone who really knows how to read poetry. To you, that might sound simple, like, oh, just read the words on the page. But as a producer of audio, let me tell you, reading poetry is, is a skill. And Irish poet Patrick Ottooma has it. He put together an anthology of poems titled 44 poems on being with each Other. And he spoke with Ed Pierre's Mary Louise Kelly about what he's looking for in a poem. And yes, he does some great reading too. That's ahead.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

The Irish word fille, spelled F I l e, means both poet and seer. For Irish poet Padraig O Tuama, seeing the world through poetry is a calling, whether that's his own poetry or someone else's. Several times a week, O Tuama walks listeners through poems on his podcast Poetry Unbound. Now he is out with a new anthology focused on the pain and the pleasure of human connection. It's called 44 poems on being with each Other. Phadrik, welcome.

[Padraig O Tuama]

Thanks, Mary Louise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There are a lot of poems out there about a whole lot of different kinds of relationships. How on earth did you narrow it down to 44?

[Padraig O Tuama]

I'm not entirely sure. I mean, I had spreadsheets of poetry which I never thought I'd need to do.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Sounds like an oxymoron to have a spreadsheet of poetry.

[Padraig O Tuama]

Yeah, I know. Yeah. I should have done it on parchment or something. That would have made it much more appropriate with a quill pen. Yeah. Yeah. I was curious about how it is that poetry could speak to all kinds of experiences of the human condition. Joyful ones, as you mentioned, you know, the pleasure of being with each other, painful ones, you know, difficult experiences, grief or shock, the demand to be with yourself as well. And that can be a mixture of all kinds of things. So I suppose I wanted to get poems in many different kind of categories about what it's like to be with somebody else or be with yourself.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, let's talk about one of them, one titled Fear and Love by Jim Moore. And first, would you read it to us?

[Padraig O Tuama]

Yeah. Fear and Love by Jim Moore. I wish I could make the argument that a river and a sunset plus a calm disregard of the ego are enough. But whatever comes next must include tents in the parking lot, that homeless camp on the way to the airport, and the hole in your cheek from the cancer removed Yesterday, I said, last night, in the few seconds before I fell asleep, you do realize, don't you, everything is falling apart, you said. Okay, I'll try to keep that in mind. And now it is starting to be late again, just like every other night for the last 75. Fear and love, a friend said in an impromptu speech at a surprise birthday party. We all live caught between fear and love. He tried to smile as he spoke, then sat down. Yesterday you saw the moon from the operating table where they were about to cut you. Look, you demanded, and the surgeon bent and turned to see it from your angle, knife in hand.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So much in that one. Why does this poem stick with you?

[Padraig O Tuama]

Oh, I love it. I mean, there's all kinds of reasons on every line that I love it, but it's that final part. Look, you demanded. And then the surgeon being the one to obey the person upon whom the surgeon's about to do some surgery, the surgeon bent and turned to see it from your angle. Part of me thinks that one of the levels of this poem is thinking about the ways that we can affect even when you are in a situation where you are about to be operated on. Like this person is able to say to the person with all the skill and all the health, look. And he does that, and he has knife in hand. We're so close to each other, we can hurt each other, we can change each other, and we can show each other what we're able to see from our points of view if we'd only dare to demand or ask or offer.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

You do include personal anecdotes, almost like diary entries that accompany these poems. It's your own analysis. Why did you want us to see these glimpses of your own life?

[Padraig O Tuama]

Well, I suppose I'm interested in how it is that people can turn to a poem and feel like the poem is in conversation with yourself. So partly by bringing parts of my own life, I want to show, here's what you can do, that it isn't just about looking at the technique of metaphor or how many stanzas, or whether there is or isn't rhyme or a particular kind of form. It's also about saying, oh, that line makes me think of that thing that happened to me yesterday. One of the poems in the book is a Langston Hughes poem, and I chose that because somebody had written to me a few years ago on Instagram and said that there had been a close friendship that had fallen apart and was there a poem for her. And so I suppose we're often looking for a small secular liturgy for our lives, and poetry can provide that sometimes, so.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Drumroll. Let me turn to you did just publish a collection of your own poetry. It is titled Kitchen Hymns. Congratulations on that.

[Padraig O Tuama]

Thanks very much.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

On the jacket you write that the collection is, and I am quoting, structured like a ghost Mass, where God has disappeared, but longing still has things to say. And I read that and thought, that's absolutely beautiful. And also, I have no idea what it means. What does it mean? Padre Gotuma?

[Padraig O Tuama]

I'm mostly interested in hearing what you don't think it means, where God has.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Disappeared, but longing still has things to say. Are you circling us back in a way to that idea of human connection?

[Padraig O Tuama]

Well, I am. And also, I suppose God is just a noise we make to contain something about what it is we long for and our relationship with our longing. I trained in theology to fixate too much on the word God, I think, is to miss out the fact that prayer arises naturally in the human heart, whether or not anybody has a relationship to formal religion. So a ghost Mass for me is using structure and trying to say, you can come here. Whatever you think about this sound we make with our mouths, God, because there's yearning in the human heart.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There is a whole section of your book where every poem is titled do you believe in God? Why did you set it up that way?

[Padraig O Tuama]

Well, I think that that phrase, certainly I came across it in quite an aggressive way. Where there used to be evangelical missionaries from the north of Ireland would come to Cork, where I grew up, and would ask everybody, the priest, the nun, people on the way in and out to Mass, do you believe in God? And it felt like a trap. You know, the question wasn't, do you believe in God? It's do you believe in God in the proper way as dictated by me? Do you believe in that? And I got to know some of them. They were lovely people. And so I've been interested for a long time in what happens with that question, do you believe in God? And what's it like if the you is structured in a way of profound exchange rather than a trap. I'm less interested in the word believe and much more interested in the word you.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Would you read us out with the one again titled do you believe in God? The one that begins I turn to youo for sure.

[Padraig O Tuama]

Do you believe in God? I turn to you not because I trust you or believe in you, but because I need a direction for my need. You, the space between me and death. You, the hum at the heart of an atom, you, nothing you, my favorite emptiness. You, what I turned away from and will turn to you, my ache made manifest in address. You silent you, what my friends saw as they died. You contain what's not containable. You shape of my desire.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That is Padrug Ottuma reading to us from his collection Kitchen Hymns. He is also editor of the new anthology 44 poems on being with each Other. Padruk Oatuma thank you for a moment of beauty in a chaotic moment.

[Padraig O Tuama]

Thank you very.

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