Jason Mott’s new novel ‘People Like Us’ is metafiction that was almost memoir

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: In-Depth Look at Jason Mott’s ‘People Like Us’

Episode Title: Jason Mott’s new novel ‘People Like Us’ is metafiction that was almost memoir
Host: Andrew Limbong
Guest: Aisha Roscoe, Author
Release Date: August 13, 2025

Overview

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong delves into Jason Mott's latest novel, People Like Us. The discussion features an insightful interview with Aisha Roscoe, shedding light on how Mott’s work intertwines fiction with autobiographical elements, particularly exploring the impact of significant literary awards on an author's life and psyche.

The Intersection of Awards and Author Identity

Andrew Limbong opens the conversation by highlighting the often understated effect that prestigious awards, such as the National Book Award—which Mott won in 2021 for Helluva Book—have on authors. Unlike typical responses of modesty, Mott's approach in People Like Us seeks to provide deeper insights into how winning such awards shapes an author's personal and professional life.

Quote:
“It's rare to hear how big awards change authors. Often when writers are asked about winning a Pulitzer or something, they say something pat like, oh, it was nice. It was an honor, and so on.” – Andrew Limbong [00:02]

Metafiction and the Blurring Lines with Memoir

Mott's People Like Us is characterized as metafiction that borders on memoir. Roscoe explains that the novel employs two protagonists—both authors—who navigate their identities in vastly different contexts: one tours Europe post-award, while the other deals with the aftermath of a school shooting in America.

Quote:
“This book started out as my attempt at a memoir. Honestly, my last novel, Helluva Book, had these two same characters. And after I finished it, I started writing a memoir just about myself and about kind of my association and my connection to America.” – Aisha Roscoe [05:01]

Character Reflections and America’s Duality

The characters in People Like Us serve as extensions of Roscoe herself, embodying both her identity and the aspects she grapples with. This duality reflects America's own complex relationship with its citizens, balancing admiration with criticism.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Complex Feelings Toward America: Roscoe articulates a nuanced view of America, expressing both a deep-rooted connection and awareness of its inherent problems.

  Quote:
  “America has been home and always will be home. And yet at the same time, America is full of problems. Like, it is a pretty scary place right now.” – Aisha Roscoe [03:36]

• Ownership and Responsibility: The conversation delves into how Americans often dissociate from the nation's issues, yet are intrinsically part of its fabric, contributing to both its strengths and flaws.

  Quote:
  “We are all part of this machine. We all help make it every single day. When it goes negative or goes positive, we gotta take ownership of both sides of it.” – Aisha Roscoe [09:08]

Gun Culture as a Central Theme

A significant portion of the discussion centers on America’s gun culture, a prevalent theme in Mott's novel. Roscoe shares her personal experiences with firearms and critiques the societal reliance on guns for safety.

Key Insights:

• Personal Connection to Guns: Roscoe recounts her upbringing with guns, highlighting the cultural entrenchment of firearms in American life.

  Quote:
  “I grew up with guns. Like my dad got me my first shotgun when I was 10. We hunted all the time.” – Aisha Roscoe [07:21]

• Critique of Safety Narratives: The conversation challenges the notion that guns provide safety, emphasizing the paradox of increased gun ownership without corresponding safety benefits.

  Quote:
  “We seldom actually do [stay safe with guns]. And yet that has become the mantra of our entire society, is that guns are here to keep us safe and we just need more guns to be more safe.” – Aisha Roscoe [05:57]

The Emotional Toll of Tragedy

Roscoe discusses the protagonist Soot's struggle with grief and recurring trauma related to gun violence, illustrating the enduring emotional impact such events have on individuals.

Quote:
“From my experience, what happens is it's like an orbit of a planet and it begins very close. So for the first year or so, couple years, the planet's very close and it comes by every day and you hurt every single day. But as time goes on, planet grief kind of starts to drift out a bit farther and suddenly every two days, every week, but it never really stops.” – Aisha Roscoe [06:37]

The Evolution of Authorial Voice Post-Award

Winning the National Book Award brought about a transformation in Roscoe's public persona and the nature of her engagements. She reflects on how success altered her interactions and the depth of conversations about American identity.

Quote:
“It was very positive, though. I wanna always put that forward like it was and still continues to be kind of the highlight of my career and probably my life, if I'm honest about it.” – Aisha Roscoe [08:17]

Conclusion: Embracing Complexity in Literature and Identity

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the intricate relationship between authors and their works, particularly how personal experiences and societal issues intertwine within literature. People Like Us stands as a testament to the power of fiction to explore and reflect the multifaceted nature of American identity.

Final Quote:
“I'm trying to figure out my own position on how I feel about America and what that means.” – Aisha Roscoe [03:36]

About the Podcast

NPR's Book of the Day is a concise, 15-minute podcast that introduces listeners to notable books across various genres. Hosted by NPR, it provides engaging summaries and author insights, making today’s best writing accessible to a broad audience.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the original podcast transcript and are included to provide context for the quoted sections.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. It's rare to hear how big awards change authors. Often when writers are asked about winning a Pulitzer or something, they say something pat like, oh, it was nice. It was an honor, and so on. But in Jason Mott's new novel, we might finally get some real answers. The book is called People Like Us, and it's a bit of metafiction into the life of an author, including what it's like to win a fancy award. But Mott won the National Book Award for fiction in 2021, and in this interview with NPR's Aisha Roscoe, he talks about how this book was almost a memoir, but writing in fiction gave him just enough wiggle room if he was feeling a bit too exposed. That's ahead.

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[Jason Mott]

Jason Mott won the National Book Award a few years ago for Helluva Book, and he knows everybody's looking for the writer's life in whatever they've put on the page.

[Aisha Roscoe]

If I wrote a story about dinosaurs and spaceships, someone would be like, were you that dinosaur on page 97? I feel like that happened to you.

[Jason Mott]

And so for his latest novel, People Like Us, Jason Mott says he's leaning into the character writer confusion. Like in the chapter when someone asks his first person protagonist, also a novelist, a simple question. Do you love America?

[Aisha Roscoe]

For the record, I know my lines in this particular scene pretty well. Yeah, I say. Sure thing, hands on a stack of Bibles. I do love her from sea to shining sea. But I already know what you're thinking, why? Or maybe how that's fair, doll. I'll be the first to admit that it's got more than its fair share of problems. But hell, who ain't loved someone who was broken. We all got that one person in our group that's a little rough around the edges, that person we warn new people about before they show up at the party. But hell, we still invite them to the ball drop, don't we? So that's what America is. It's that friend that you love. And you also give a disclaimer to others about the land of the free. Still my friends. Still on my friends list. Still on the same text thread has always been on. She still matters to me, even if she could be better. And even more than that, she's my home. Nailed it. Every line, every syllable.

[Jason Mott]

Now, that's a kind of practiced answer. There's another one that you give a little later. Or the first person, author, I should say. He's talking about a girlfriend who said I love you to him all the time. And then he says something that I. I found really profound. He didn't understand why she had to say it so much while she was saying it, like 30 times a day. And then he says this. I figured it out. Sometimes when someone says I love you, what they're really doing is asking, do you love me? Now? I probably say I love you to America 30 times a day. Talk to me about both of those answers that this character gives and what that says about his relationship to America.

[Aisha Roscoe]

Yeah, I think it says he's got a pretty complicated relationship, as I feel a lot of people do. You know, I'm someone who lived here my entire life. I live on property that my father and great grandfather all owned. It's this very deeply rooted family land that I kind of exist on. So for me, America has been home and always will be home. And yet at the same time, America is full of problems. Like, it is a pretty scary place right now. This author, who is very loosely based on myself, he's trying to figure out his own position on how he feels about America and what that means.

[Jason Mott]

Well, can you explain what's happening in this novel? Because there are these parallel stories. How do you describe this?

[Aisha Roscoe]

It's the story of two authors. One author is traveling around Europe on a book tour after he's just won a very big writing award. And the other author is traveling around America in the wake of a school shooting that has happened. One author is exploring what America is from the outside. The other author is exploring America very much from the inside in the wake of gun violence.

[Jason Mott]

And you say that the first person author who's traveling outside of the US that he's loosely based on you, is the other character, Soot. Is he also loosely based on you? Which one is you? That's why I'm asked, which one is you?

[Aisha Roscoe]

The classic question that I always duck.

[Jason Mott]

Well, we can't duck. Here we go. Get right to it.

[Aisha Roscoe]

Well, so they are both based off of me very loosely. This book started out as my attempt at a memoir. Honestly, my last novel, helluva book, had these two same characters. And after I finished it, I started writing a memoir just about myself and about kind of my association and my connection to America. It eventually started evolving and these two characters suddenly came back. And the two characters are very much both who I am, but they're actually also pieces of me that I am not, pieces of me that I wish I was sometimes, or I wish I wasn't, depending on what the character's up to.

[Jason Mott]

Why do you think you couldn't just do a straight memoir?

[Aisha Roscoe]

The barrier of fiction gives me just enough room to put myself out there, but also pull back from it if I feel like it's too personal. It creates just enough of a buffer where I can tell my story, but I can have just enough wiggle room to where I don't feel quite as exposed as I oftentimes do.

[Jason Mott]

The first person novelist buys a gun for protection. And why does he think the gun is going to protect him?

[Aisha Roscoe]

Cause he's an American. That's the short answer. He's a good old fashioned American. Like we tout how guns will keep us safe. They rarely actually do. And yet that has become the mantra of our entire society, is that guns are here to keep us safe and we just need more guns to be more safe.

[Jason Mott]

Soot, he also carries a gun, even though he isn't being overtly threatened. Soot does seem to be trapped in this kind of personal hell of a timeline.

[Aisha Roscoe]

So I think for Soot, also just for people like grief and pain, they never really go away. From my experience, what happens is it's like an orbit of a planet and it begins very close. So for the first year or so, couple years, the planet's very close and it comes by every day and you hurt every single day. But as time goes on, planet grief kind of starts to drift out a bit farther and suddenly every two days, every week, but it never really stops. You go for years and years and years and it just keeps coming back. And that is some of what Soot is going through is that he has these very painful moments, these moments of grief and pain and heartache that are all tied to guns and they keep coming back and he is navigating them as he's also trying to navigate his day to day existence.

[Jason Mott]

Can I ask you, like, how much has gun culture affected your own personal life?

[Aisha Roscoe]

So I grew up with guns. Like my dad got me my first shotgun when I was 10. We hunted all the time. You know, I still own guns to this day. I still have several pistols, things like that. But I think as I was working on this project, I realized just how tightly bound Americans are to their guns. It doesn't matter if you own a gun or not. Guns are part of your life and they always will be. And we refuse to give that up. And I find it to be very.

[Jason Mott]

Fascinating in the book, the author who's overseas, he's run the National Book Award, which you won a few years ago for hell of a book. The author in this book, People Like Us, it seems to really mess with his mind. It's crazy. It's debauchery. It's a whole thing. How did you feel? Cause people reading this book are going to think it was really complicated for you.

[Aisha Roscoe]

I think it was complicated for me. It was very positive, though. I wanna always put that forward like it was and still continues to be kind of the highlight of my career and probably my life, if I'm honest about it. But it also kind of presented unique position where suddenly, as I was touring for that book, the way that I was engaging with people in interviews, the questions that I was being asked, they were of a different caliber, of a different breed. And it made the entire process feel different. It was kind of like the author that I was before the book won the National Book Award and the author that I am now are slightly different. It opened the door for some very interesting conversations about America and American identity.

[Jason Mott]

Well, because in the reading, it's like, well, America is also a part of us. We are kind of. Of it. We are here. We are. You know what I'm saying?

[Aisha Roscoe]

Like, we.

[Jason Mott]

And we also kind of make it too.

[Aisha Roscoe]

We do. We make it every day. And I think that becomes a coping mechanism. Oftentimes to say that whenever some political thing happens, we like to say, well, that's not my America. That's not the America that I am, not the America I voted for, et cetera, et cetera. But the harder truth is that we are all part of this machine. We all help make it every single day. When it goes negative or goes positive, we gotta take ownership of both sides of it. And I think that is part of what the story also does, is try to understand what that means and how that's a harder thing to deal with.

[Jason Mott]

That's Jason Mott. His new book is People Like Us. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Aisha Roscoe]

No problem at all. Thank you for having me. This was wonderful.

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