John Grisham brings a money-hungry lawyer to center stage in 'The Widow'

Summary

Podcast Summary: NPR's Book of the Day

Episode: John Grisham brings a money-hungry lawyer to center stage in 'The Widow'

Host: Sacha Pfeiffer (with intro/outro by Andrew Limbong)
Guest: John Grisham
Date: November 13, 2025

Overview:

In this episode, NPR’s Sacha Pfeiffer chats with bestselling author John Grisham about his latest novel, The Widow. Grisham discusses his enduring fascination with the legal world, why “bad” lawyers make for juicier stories, the realities of small-town practice, and his disciplined writing process—all while poking gentle fun at lawyers’ quirks and the American love of litigation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Plot and Nature of ‘The Widow’

• The Widow centers around a small-town lawyer stuck in a rut—routine cases, modest fees—who gets drawn into the orbit of a wealthy, lonely elderly client.

  • John Grisham: “It's a very routine legal matter. He's going to get paid $250 for a simple will.... He's never done a will for a wealthy client. And suddenly he realizes this client is really, really wealthy... And so it starts creating some ideas in his mind... It's called greed.” (01:48)

• The lawyer faces mounting temptation, with Grisham noting that greed quickly takes over, leading the protagonist down a path of moral compromise and, ultimately, a murder charge.

  • John Grisham: “The greed takes over and he starts doing things that he probably shouldn't do...” (01:48)

2. The Fun (and Drama) of Writing ‘Bad Lawyers’

• Pfeiffer comments on the “physical effect” of temptation on the protagonist (the “flutter in his intestines”), which Grisham laughs off as a familiar, human moment.

  • John Grisham: “It's the old fashioned butterflies. It's the excitement before a big contest...” (02:55)

• Grisham reflects on why readers relish stories of lawyers behaving badly:

  • John Grisham: “Most lawyers are honest, hard working people... Nobody wants to read about those lawyers. You want to read about the lawyer who... steals the money, fakes his own death, or the law firm that explodes and the corruption. That's, that's drama. That's good stuff to read about. And we all sort of rejoice when a lawyer gets in trouble.... It's kind of our national culture...” (03:30)

3. The Real Impact of Lawyers

• Despite lampooning the profession, Grisham reiterates that lawyers do immense good in society:
  • John Grisham: “Oh, definitely more good. When we face problems, legal problems, we want a good lawyer. We trust lawyers.... Lawyers do so much good in society. Thousands and thousands of great nonprofits... have lawyers. Your public interest lawyers are the happiest lawyers I've met.” (04:25)

4. Grisham’s Rigorous Writing Routine

• Grisham shares his much-asked-about process—a daily, distraction-free routine:
  • No internet, no email, no phones while actively drafting
  • Breaks every hour to jot down questions and briefly research online
  • Writes about 1,000 words a day, typically in the morning
  • Moves to a separate office for business and further research after noon
  • John Grisham: “When I'm actually writing, I'm in a room, an office, with no Internet and no contact... But every, probably every hour, I take a break and... run to the Internet and do a quick search. So I'm constantly searching the Internet for information.... Only when I'm sitting down actually writing sentence after sentence am I offline.” (05:34)

5. Fascination with the Legal System

• Grisham and Pfeiffer acknowledge that the legal system makes for endless drama, partly because of Americans’ litigious streak:
  • John Grisham: “We have a fascination for lawyers and laws. And as Americans, we have all these rights that we have, or we think we have.... We have an insatiable appetite for stories about lawyers and law firms... The most litigious people on the face of the earth.” (07:06)

6. A Classic Lawyer’s Excuse—Grisham’s ‘Trick of the Trade’

• Grisham admits to deploying a comic fib to end meetings early when he practiced law:
  • John Grisham: “I'm sorry, the federal judge's calling. That works every time.” (08:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why readers crave dramatic legal fiction:
  “Nobody wants to read about those lawyers. You want to read about the lawyer who, you know, steals the money, fakes his own death, or the law firm that explodes and the corruption. That's, that's drama. That's good stuff to read about.”
  — John Grisham (03:30)

• On the writing routine:
  “When I'm actually writing, I'm in a room, an office, with no Internet and no contact... That's for concentration. That's for no interruptions. That's to get the words written.”
  — John Grisham (05:34)

• On lawyers doing good:
  “Lawyers do so much good in society.... Your public interest lawyers are the happiest lawyers I've met.”
  — John Grisham (04:25)

• Comic aside on winding up client meetings:
  “I used it all the time for 10 years. It was one of my, one of my ways to get off a phone call or get out of a meeting. 'I'm sorry, the federal judge's calling.' That works every time.”
  — John Grisham (08:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] Introduction to Grisham and context for The Widow
• [01:48] Grisham explains the book’s premise and main character
• [02:55] Discussion of character’s motivation and humor in the writing
• [03:30] Why stories about “bad” lawyers are popular
• [04:25] The good that lawyers do, and the value of the profession
• [05:34] Grisham’s disciplined, internet-free writing workflow
• [07:06] The enduring allure of the legal system in fiction and culture
• [08:20] Lawyerly ‘tricks of the trade’: polite exits from meetings

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Tone & Style

The conversation is witty, candid, and warm, peppered with Grisham’s wry humor and affection for the quirks of his old profession. Sacha Pfeiffer’s questions elicit practical advice and personal asides, making the episode engaging for book lovers and aspiring writers alike.

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For Listeners

If legal intrigue, small-town drama, and ethical gray areas are your favorite fictional territory, The Widow fits the bill. And for aspiring writers or Grisham fans, his “lock-the-Internet-away” method may be a future productivity hack.

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End of content summary.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. You know, literary snobs feel some sort of way about prolific authors such as John Grisham, guys who just pump him out at a steady clip. But say what you will, the man writes and writes and writes. His latest, the Widow is another look at the legal system. Up ahead, he tells NPR's Sacha Pfeiffer about his writing process, which which involves a regular routine of locking himself away from the Internet if for a short period of time.

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[Sacha Pfeiffer]

John Grisham is one of the country's most successful and prolific authors. Since his first novel came out in 1989, he's averaged about a book a year, more than 50 so far. And now he's out with another one. It's about his favorite topic, literally, lawyers. Specifically lawyers acting badly. It's called the Widow and its main character is a small town lawyer worn out by the low level cases he's been doing for almost two decades, like foreclosures and slip and falls. But then an elderly woman comes to his office and needs his help. I spoke with John Grisham recently and he picked up the plot.

[John Grisham]

It's a very routine legal matter. He's going to get paid $250 for a simple will. He likes these cases because they're simple, easy and kind of pays some of the overhead. He's not accustomed to having clients with a lot of money. He's never done a will for a wealthy client. And suddenly he realizes this client is really, really wealthy and she has no family, she has no children, she has no friends. She's kind of lonely and no one knows she has this money. That's the original story. That's what he thinks. And so it starts creating some ideas in his mind about what he might how he might sort of ingratiate himself to her and get more involved in her affairs and earn bigger fees. It's called greed. And the greed takes over and he starts doing things that he probably shouldn't do you write?

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

In fact, this made me laugh, that he starts to feel a slight flutter in his intestines. I thought that was quite funny about the physical effect that this dawning realization was having on him.

[John Grisham]

It's the old fashioned butterflies. It's the excitement before a big contest, but it's also the moment when you don't expect something to happen and it might really be good for you. So, yeah, a little flutter of excitement.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

I'm going to mention a big plot point here, but eventually this lawyer faces a murder charge. I don't want to give away much more, but overall, this book is a very unflattering look at lawyers. They're scheming, they're predatory and John Grisham, this is your former profession, practiced for 10 years, I think, back in the 80s. Why are you so hard on the legal profession?

[John Grisham]

Well, you know, most lawyers are honest, hard working people who don't make a lot of money. Your small town solo practitioners especially, they play by the rules and work hard. Nobody wants to read about those lawyers. You want to read about the lawyer who, you know, steals the money, fakes his own death, or the law firm that explodes and the corruption. That's, that's drama. That's good stuff to read about. And we all sort of rejoice when a lawyer gets in trouble. Gets in trouble. It's kind of, it's kind of our national culture, our mood, our psyche. That's what we enjoy.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Although your book sometimes do show lawyers at their best, you know, fixing injustices and reversing wrongful conviction. I'm wondering now, with the perspective you have of decades of writing about the legal profession and having practiced overall, do you judge the profession as doing more harm or more good?

[John Grisham]

Oh, definitely more good. When, when we face problems, legal problems, we want a good lawyer. We trust lawyers. We want to know them in case we need them and when we need them, we want to hire the best, if we can afford the best. And lawyers do so much good in society. There's so thousands and thousands of great nonprofits in this country doing all manner of great work. And all of them have lawyers. Your public interest lawyers are the happiest lawyers I've met.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

People are, I think, in general, quite fascinated about what are the routines of successful novelists who write a lot. And you're obviously incredibly prolific, a real idea generator. I assume you get asked a lot about your writing routine because I noticed on your website you explain your writing routine and that it's very disciplined. You do it every day, same place, same time you said you'd use no Internet, no email, no social media, no phones. And I get that, wanting to cut yourself off. I'm wondering, though, how hard you find it to not have any access to online when you want to check something or get an idea.

[John Grisham]

I'm not completely cut off when I'm actually writing. I'm in a room, an office, with no Internet and no contact, because that's for concentration. That's for no interruptions. That's to get the words written. But every, probably every hour, I take a break and I return to the house and I get a cup of coffee and I write down two or three questions that I've come across. I'll run to the Internet and do a quick search. So I'm constantly searching the Internet for information. The Internet makes it so much easier. And then when I finish writing for the day, and I do about a thousand words a day, that takes four or five hours. When that's finished, around noon, I go to my office, another office in downtown Charlottesville, where I take care of business for a couple hours, check in with New York, check in with the editor, and continue to do research so I'm not cut off from the Internet. Only when I'm sitting down actually writing sentence after sentence after sentence, am I offline.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

You know, you are known, of course, for legal thrillers, legal procedurals. It's not all you've done. We've written about many other things, but it seems to be your go to. I used to work for the Boston Globe, and I covered the legal system, law firms, lawyers, the courts. I loved that beat because there was a drama in every courtroom. Lawyers were often smart but very unhappy and disillusioned in their jobs. And for my purposes, that created great story opportunities. Why do you like writing about the legal system in general?

[John Grisham]

Well, we have a fascination for lawyers and laws. And as Americans, we have all these rights that we have, or we think we have. And, you know, if somebody tampers or meddles with our rights, we're quick to sue, we're quick to hire lawyers, just who we are. We believe in being independent and being left alone. And if somebody bothers us, we, you know, we have a grudge. We perhaps can litigate. And we have an insatiable appetite for stories about lawyers and law firms. And look at the, you know, the great body of legal fiction and movies and television. It's just who we are. The most litigious people on the face of the earth. And we think that's the way it should be. And again, it's just there's so much material, I'm overwhelmed often by just the number of stories that I could be pursuing.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

Back to your book the Widow, you kind of reveal a trick of the trade that I thought was pretty funny. And you said that when a lawyer tells a client that he or she has to go to a judicial conference call or say that they're needed in federal court, that is sometimes a fancy fib to end, to end their client meeting, which I thought was pretty funny, the sort of excuses lawyers would make to kind of wrap up a meeting.

[John Grisham]

I used it all the time for 10 years. It was one of my, one of my ways to get off a phone call or get out of a meeting. I'm sorry, the federal judge's calling. That works every time.

[Sacha Pfeiffer]

That is author John Grisham. His latest novel is the Widow. John, thank you.

[John Grisham]

Thank you, Sasha. My pleasure.

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, Andrew here, The host of NPR's Book of the Day podcast. And yeah, I love new books, but there's just something about rereading an old favorite on our new limited series, Books We've Loved. We're revisiting some classics from Pride and Prejudice to Dune to Everything in between and talking about why they're worth reading today. Listen to NPR's Books We've Loved right on this podcast feed every Saturday on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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