Katie Yee's 'Maggie' approaches a tough diagnosis - and a marriage's end - with humor

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: In-Depth with Katie Yee on 'Maggie or A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar'

Release Date: August 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Asma Khalid engages in a compelling conversation with debut novelist Katie Yee about her first novel, Maggie or A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar. The discussion delves into the intricate themes of the book, including personal adversity, humor, identity, and parenthood, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of Yee's literary approach and the inspirations behind her storytelling.

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Overview of the Book

Maggie or A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar presents the life of an unnamed Asian American woman navigating a series of life-altering events. The protagonist faces a breast cancer diagnosis, discovers her husband's infidelity, and contends with the dissolution of her marriage—all while managing the responsibilities of motherhood. Yee masterfully intertwines these heavy themes with wit and humor, creating a narrative that is both poignant and uplifting.

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Themes Explored

Breast Cancer and Family History

Katie Yee explains that the character's battle with breast cancer is deeply personal, reflecting her own family's experiences. Both her mother and grandmother have faced breast cancer, and through her novel, Yee aims to honor their stories. She states:

"Breast cancer is something that the main character deals with in the book, and it's something that runs through my own family... I did want to honor their stories with this one."
[02:04]

Humor in the Midst of Adversity

Yee emphasizes the importance of humor as a coping mechanism. She references a scene from Sex and the City where characters joke in a chemotherapy room, illustrating how moments of levity coexist with tragedy. Yee incorporates similar moments in her book to highlight the multifaceted nature of life during challenging times.

"I think that the humor was essential in kind of staying sane and writing this story... life goes on, and there can still be moments of joy."
[03:07]

Identity and Race

The novel subtly addresses Asian American identity without making it the central focus. Yee discusses the impact of societal events, such as the pandemic and rising violence against Asian Americans, on her writing. These experiences influence her contemplation of bringing a child into a world where identity can be a source of both pride and vulnerability.

"It really made me think about whether or not I could bring a child into the world who looked like me, Right. Who I couldn't protect from these things."
[04:24]

Motherhood and Parenting

Yee explores the dynamics of parenthood, portraying both traditional and nurturing aspects. She reflects on different parenting styles, contrasting parents who project their aspirations onto their children with those who genuinely seek to understand and support their children's individuality. This theme is evident in the protagonist's interactions and her approach to parenting amidst personal turmoil.

"I really wanted to put on the page here a mother who... really wants to meet them where they are."
[08:38]

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Character Development

The unnamed narrator embodies resilience and agency. A pivotal moment in the novel is when she names her tumor "Maggie," symbolizing her reclaiming control over her life and circumstances. This act serves as a metaphor for her taking charge of her narrative amidst chaos.

"When you name something, you put your own stamp on it. You kind of claim it as your own."
[06:49]

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Writing Process and Personal Influences

Yee shares that writing fiction is her primary way of processing the world. The novel was conceived during the global pandemic, a time that brought personal and societal challenges to the forefront. Her interactions with friends, particularly new mothers, inspired her to delve into the everyday realities of parenting, enriching her portrayal of the protagonist's life.

"So much of the way that I process the world is through writing fiction."
[05:21]

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Notable Quotes

• Katie Yee on Humor:
  "I think that the humor was essential in kind of staying sane and writing this story... life goes on, and there can still be moments of joy."
  [03:07]

• Katie Yee on Reclaiming Control:
  "When you name something, you put your own stamp on it. You kind of claim it as your own."
  [06:49]

• Katie Yee on Storytelling:
  "I hope readers take away from this the feeling that they can tell the story of their own life... this permission or this freedom to rewrite their own story at any point."
  [10:27]

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Conclusion and Author's Takeaways

In her closing remarks, Katie Yee expresses her desire for readers to feel empowered to reframe their own life narratives. She believes that everyone possesses the ability to rewrite their stories, embracing both their struggles and triumphs with authenticity and courage.

"I hope readers take away from this the feeling that they can tell the story of their own life... this permission or this freedom to rewrite their own story at any point."
[10:27]

Asma Khalid concludes the interview by praising Yee's insightful and heartfelt storytelling, highlighting the novel's blend of humor and depth as a refreshing addition to contemporary literature.

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Katie Yee's Maggie or A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar offers a nuanced exploration of personal and familial challenges, underscored by humor and a profound understanding of identity and motherhood. This engaging discussion on NPR's Book of the Day provides a comprehensive look into Yee's debut work, inviting listeners to reflect on their own life stories and the power of narrative.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. When it comes to making art, the process is just as important as the product. At least that's what I got from today's interview. It's with debut novelist Katie Yee about her book Maggie or a man and woman walk into a bar. It's about a woman going through a lot, a breast cancer diagnosis, a divorce, her husband's affair, and she has to navigate all of this while still being a mother. And in this interview with Here and Now's Asma Khalid, Yi talks about writing this book to wrestle with her own questions about having kids to visit the everyday life of a parent who has to do the boring everyday parent things, you know, because for Yi, the writing process is how she processes the world. More up ahead.

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[Asma Khalid]

A man and a woman walk into a restaurant. That kind of sounds like the beginning of a joke, but in Katie Yee's novel, it's the end of a marriage. To make matters worse, the woman finds a lump in her breast. I know you're thinking this sounds like a downer of a book, but it is actually incredibly witty and insightful, kind of ideal if you're looking for a summer read with some substance. The book is called Maggie or A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar. And author Katie Yee joins us from the NPR New York studios to talk about it. Thanks for being here.

[Katie Yee]

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here.

[Asma Khalid]

And I should say this is your first novel.

[Katie Yee]

It is.

[Asma Khalid]

And you are 29 years old. And the reason I mention your age is that I was struck by the degree of maturity and clarity I think you had throughout the book in dealing with themes around like marriage, divorce, motherhood, cancer. Why is this the book you wanted to write?

[Katie Yee]

You're right. The story does not indeed follow kind of the shape of my life. But I think when I, when I started writing it, I was thinking a lot about how weird it is to have a body. But I think there are so many Moments in life and especially in a woman's life that really force you back into your body. Right. Breast cancer is something that the main character deals with in the book, and it's something that runs through my own family. My mother and grandmother have both lived through that. And it's something that I had been trying and failing to write about for a while. But I did want to honor their stories with this one.

[Asma Khalid]

So, Katie, did you find it easier to write about a topic as dense as breast cancer, let's say, through comedy, through wit, humor at times?

[Katie Yee]

Definitely. I definitely think that the humor was essential in kind of staying sane and writing this story. You know, I think in life, nothing is ever one note. There is sometimes joy to be found in rooms like this. I'm actually thinking specifically, there's this one episode of Sex and the City where Samantha, played by Kim Cattrall, is diagnosed with breast cancer. And there's this phenomenal scene where she and her friends are, like, sitting in the chemotherapy room and she's going through treatment, but they're also laughing and joking and talking about dating and all these things that they are normally doing. And I thought that was such an incredible way to capture just, like, the nuance of something like this. Yes, it's horrible and heavy and bleak, but also, life goes on, and there can still be moments of joy. And I wanted to put that in my book as well.

[Asma Khalid]

We never learn your narrator's name, but we do know that she is Asian American, and we get glimpses of that throughout the book. And I will say it's never really over the top that you're talking to us about identity. The reason I mention this is that her husband leaves her. He's having an affair, he says, with a woman, another woman. And that woman is white. And that really hits a nerve. Talk to us about the ways in which you wanted to write about identity and race here.

[Katie Yee]

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm gonna quote the writer Sequoia Nagamatsu here. I'm gonna paraph something that he said once in an interview. He is third generation Japanese American, and he said that for him, the immigrant story didn't quite ever feel right for him to write about. It wasn't something that he himself had kind of gone through. And for him, race was always present, but not central to the plots of his stories. And that's kind of how I feel here, too. I mean, I started taking this story really seriously as a novel during the pandemic hit, my late 20s, and I moved in with my Boyfriend. And we started to get all these questions about, you know, when we were gonna get married and when we were gonna. And at the same time, you know, this global pandemic had hit, and there was all this violence happening towards Asian Americans. And it really made me think these two things kind of coinciding. It really made me think about whether or not I could bring a child into the world who looked like me, Right. Who I couldn't protect from these things.

[Asma Khalid]

Do you have children of your own?

[Katie Yee]

I do not. I do not. And I think that writing this story was kind of my way of. I mean, so much of the way that I process the world is through writing fiction. One of my best friends, she just had her first child. And, you know, she's getting all these questions. Of course, the first in a friend group, I think, always does, you know, does it hurt? Are you tired? And these are stupid questions, because of course it did. And of course she is. But I think I wanted to sit with. When I was writing this, more of the everyday questions, right? Like, what would it be like to be checking their homework at the end of the night? You're exhausted, but you want to make sure that they spel everything, right? To watch their handwriting transform, you know, to see the way that they dot their I's. How does that change? Are there hearts over them? Things like that I really wanted to sit with, and I had the best time doing that.

[Asma Khalid]

I want to turn back to the plot of this book. As the main character, who is also the unnamed narrator here, learns that her husband is having an affair. She also finds she has breast cancer. She goes on to actually name her tumor. She calls her tumor Maggie, which, by the way, is the. Of the other woman. And the reason I bring this up is, to me, it was such a delightful example of humor in the book. It's almost like saying to her husband, you know, you have a Maggie. Well, fine. So do I. Why'd you decide to do that?

[Katie Yee]

I think that was kind of her way of taking control.

[Asma Khalid]

Right.

[Katie Yee]

And taking the reins back of her own life. I think when you name something, you put your own stamp on it. You kind of claim it as your own. And so much of her life up until this point, I feel like she had kind of been letting her husband sit in the. And this was her way of. Yeah, just taking the wheel back.

[Asma Khalid]

You know, you do consistently try to deal with these heavy topics and provide moments of levity, trying to turn some of the tragedy, I would say, into comedy. And this is sprinkled all throughout the book. And I would love for you to read a paragraph or two for us. There's a section at the very bottom of page two. I think it starts. I have on good authority.

[Katie Yee]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Let me just. Let me dive in. I have on good authority, an OB nurse holding court at a friend's holiday party, that when they are born, children most resemble the father. They have evolved to do so so the dad will recognize himself in his offspring and not think them the product of a torrid affair. Even the evolution of newborns assumes a world rife with infidelity. Even babies know to appease the patriarch, to make it known that they are his.

[Asma Khalid]

You allude to the affair there, but in a funny way.

[Katie Yee]

Thank you.

[Asma Khalid]

You also explore the idea, I think, of motherhood, but also sort of fatherhood here. Right. The role of dads. Throughout the book, there is a sense that her husband is someone who the children really prefer. Right. He tells them these fun bedtime stories. He is a lighthearted guy who wants to give the children a really good time before actually even telling them about the divorce.

[Katie Yee]

Yes.

[Asma Khalid]

What were you trying to say about. And was it bigger than just this particular dad? Were you trying to say something sort of more holistically about fatherhood?

[Katie Yee]

You know, I don't even know that I mean it specifically like, along the lines of gender. Right. Like motherhood, fatherhood. But I think there are different kinds of parents. I remember so vividly, there was this mother to this other girl in sixth grade, and she was so sure that her daughter was gonna be, like, a businesswoman and she was just gonna be so successful. And I don't think that my friend had any interest in business at all. But I think there are parents who project a lot of their hopes and dreams. I mean, my grandparents really wanted me to be, like, a doctor or a lawyer. But then there are also parents, I think, who are so genuinely curious about their children. And that's something that I really wanted to capture here. So much of my love of storytelling comes from sitting with my own mother. She loved telling me bedtime stories. She loved telling me myths. But then she would do this thing where she would be like, okay, now you tell me a story. It's your turn. And she was just so curious about what I would say, curious about the observations I had picked up from my day. And I think I really wanted to put on the page here a mother who, you know, this Asian American mother who is maybe different from other Asian American mothers that you see, you know, typically represented in media. Right. Not a tiger mom, not a helicopter mom, someone who wants the best for her kids but who really wants to, like, get to know them, who sees that they become something so different from herself every day and really wants to meet them where they are.

[Asma Khalid]

That's really insightful, Katie, because I don't know that until I had my own kids, I fully understood that they are so autonomous. It was very humbling to realize how different they are than me, which I think brings me back to reality every day. Katie, let me ask you for your final words now here on your first book. What do you hope readers take away from it?

[Katie Yee]

I hope readers take away from this the feeling that they can tell the story of their own life. Right. I mean, I think we all have these origin stories and these myths and maybe these meet cutes that we've been telling ourselves or telling our friends over drinks time and time again. And I hope readers feel kind of this permission or this freedom to rewrite their own story at any point.

[Asma Khalid]

Katie Yee's new novel is Maggie or A man and a woman walk into a bar. Katie, it's been such a pleasure speaking with you.

[Katie Yee]

Same here. Thank you so much for having me.

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[G]

This summer on Planet Money Summer School, we're learning about political economy. We're getting into the nitty gritty of what government does with things like trade, taxes, immigration and healthcare.

[Katie Yee]

So politics and economics, which are taught separately, they shouldn't be separated at all. I think you have to understand one.

[Asma Khalid]

To really appreciate the other.

[G]

So what is the right amount of government in our lives? Tune into Planet Money Summer School from npr, wherever you get your podcasts.