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Tim Bedermius
Hey, everybody, I'm Tim Bedermius, and this is NPR's book of the Day. What does it mean to be immortal? It's a question that serves as something of a motivation for Cyrus Shams, the character at the heart of the novel Martyr by Kaveh Akbar. Cyrus has had a rough go of it, suffering from a number of personal challenges, including the death of his parents and battling addiction. And it's against this backdrop that Cyrus looks to find some kind of solace through poetry. But he runs into challenges along the way. In this interview with Weekend Edition host Scott Simon, Akbar discusses the forces that shape Cyrus and the role that art can play in honoring a life and quite possibly saving it, too.
Scott Simon
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Kaveh Akbar
Cyrus AMS is both the son of the Middle east in the American Middle west who's been instilled with tragedy. His mother, Roya, was aboard Iran Air Flight 655, which was shot down by mistake by the US Navy during the Iran Iraq War in 1988. He and his father, Ali, wind up moving to Indiana, where Ali works overworks, really, at a poultry farm, and dies from a stroke. Cyrus becomes a drunk drug addict and a poet, not a totally unprecedented combination. But at the age of 30, he is sober, restless and still in Indiana, and thinks there might be one path left to deliver himself to a kind of immortality. Martyr is the name of the debut novel from Kaveh Akbar. He's also poetry editor of the Nation, teaches at The University of Iowa, Randolph College, and Warren Wilson College. He joins us now from Iowa City, Iowa. Thanks so much for being with us.
Thank you so much for having me, Scott.
And that. That flight, of course, isn't a novel, but. But Iran Air Flight 655 was shot down in 1988, wasn't it?
It was. It was. It was shot down by the USS Vincennes, a US Naval warship. They say that they mistook it for a military plane and they shot it down. And all 290 passengers on board were killed, including 66 children.
Does Cyrus feel doomed or spared?
I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think one can feel doomed and spared. Doomed to the same ineffable resting place that awaits us all. And also spared from dying of addiction, from dying aboard that flight with his mother. So both.
Cyrus has a poetry project in mind. Is he hoping that will deliver meaning or immortality or what?
Art is a mechanism by which people have sought immortality for millennia. The idea that we could store our intelligence in our stories, in language, meaning in each other outside of our brains, means that we could transmit stories to family members that we would never know who would be born after we died. Right? And that's as close as I know of any human being ever achieving corporeal immortality. And so Cyrus is intensely interested in that. He's also interested in some kind of martyrdom, right? Not necessarily religious martyrdom or theological martyrdom, but martyrdom for a divine. That might be more terrestrial, right? Whether it be justice or land or dignity or family or art. He's suicidally sad, but he doesn't want to waste his suicide.
He had an uncle who was once the angel of death. That must leave an impression.
Yeah. So the uncle in the book, during the Iran Iraq war, he has a job where every night after the battle, he gets on a horse and wears a long black robe. And he wants to give people a glimpse of the angel, of something celestial and holy in their dying moments, to. To embolden them in their dying, to persuade them to die with dignity. That's his job. That's his job in the army.
Does he hope it gives people meaning?
The way the Iranian government yoked itself to cultural and religious ideas around martyrdom and harnessed those towards its own sort of propagandistic ends is a story that I only glance upon in this book but could be the subject of, you know, a million graduate theses.
I laughed out loud, and maybe I shouldn't have, of some of the sections of the book where Cyrus has A part time job to educate doctors in which he plays patients who have to get bad news. He's great at that. Am I right to think that this is probably not something he should be doing in his current frame of mind?
Well, yeah. So Cyrus is a medical actor who doctors train, giving patients bad news by giving Cyrus bad news. And then he plays all these different characters and. Yeah, I mean, his best friend in the novel is named Z. And Z thinks that Cyrus shouldn't be doing it because he's not necessarily in a good state of mind for it. And I appreciate you for saying you found the book funny, too. I do hope that it doesn't feel like a relentlessly dour slog. I mean, my experience of life on the planet earth is private joys amidst collective grief and private grief amidst collective joy.
Addiction looms over this, this. This story almost as much as martyrdom. Cyrus at one point writes, for a drunk, there's nothing but drink. There was nothing in my life that wasn't predicated on getting drunk. Which raises a difficult question. Does he see martyrdom as. As a way out with a little more. I don't know, a little more style?
Sure. Absolutely. I think that your two choices as a person in recovery are to relapse or to die sober. And you only really win recovery by dying sober. Right. The entirety of your life is just a million trillion opportunities to relapse. I am a person in recovery. I've been sober for 10 years. But it can be exhausting. And I think that there is a part of Cyrus that feels very, very exhausted.
May I say something just from a family who's been touched by this, of course.
We're talking.
Good for you. 10 years. Good for you.
Thank you. I appreciate it. It's the hardest thing I've ever done and the most worthwhile thing. And everything else is made possible by that. The cat on my lap, the phone in my hand, the book that we're talking about.
You turn over the last page of this book. You know a lot more Iranian poetry than you did when you first started out.
Yes.
Was that also in your grand design?
Well, I mean, the poet Li Yong Lee says, syntax is identity. Right. Which means that the way that I talk is inflected by all of my geographies and all of my genealogies and all of my histories and every movie I've ever seen in the order that I see them, and every book that I've ever read in the order that I read them. Right. And obviously, Persian poetry looms large in my consciousness, as does Sonic Youth and EPMD and Erykah Badu and Gene Valentine and all the other cultural referents that appear throughout the book.
Do you have particular regard for the Iranian poet Ferdowsi?
Of course, there's a large biographical beat in the book that orbits him, but he's the great he's the progenitor of so much else in Persian culture. The joke is, every Iranian household has two books, the Quran and the Shahnameh. You know Ferdowsi's great book, and only one of them gets read.
The poet and now novelist Kava Akbar. He's written a novel, Martyr. Thanks so much for being with us.
Thanks so much, Scott Foreign.
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NPR's Book of the Day: A Deep Dive into Kaveh Akbar's 'Martyr!'
Release Date: December 31, 2024
In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Tim Bedermius introduces listeners to Kaveh Akbar's debut novel, Martyr!. The conversation features an insightful interview between Kaveh Akbar and Weekend Edition host Scott Simon, delving into the novel's exploration of identity, addiction, and the transformative power of poetry.
Martyr! centers on Cyrus Shams, a character grappling with profound personal tragedies and the quest for meaning through poetry. Cyrus's journey is marked by the loss of his parents, a battle with addiction, and his struggle to find solace and a semblance of immortality through artistic expression.
Cyrus's story is set against a tumultuous backdrop. His mother, Roya, perished when Iran Air Flight 655 was mistakenly shot down by the US Navy in 1988, an event that propels Cyrus and his father, Ali, to relocate to Indiana. Ali's overwork on a poultry farm culminates in his death by stroke, leading Cyrus down a path of addiction and alcoholism. Despite these hardships, Cyrus achieves sobriety at 30 but remains restless, contemplating whether poetry can immortalize his existence.
Kaveh Akbar (02:52): "Art is a mechanism by which people have sought immortality for millennia... we could transmit stories to family members that we would never know who would be born after we died."
Akbar intricately weaves themes of identity and addiction throughout the narrative. Cyrus embodies the struggle of maintaining sobriety, depicted poignantly when he reflects:
Kaveh Akbar (06:46): "Addiction looms over this story almost as much as martyrdom... Cyrus at one point writes, 'for a drunk, there's nothing but drink. There was nothing in my life that wasn't predicated on getting drunk.'"
Cyrus's battle with addiction serves as a metaphor for his search for meaning and his yearning to transcend mortality through his poetic endeavors.
Poetry plays a pivotal role in Martyr!, serving as both a refuge and a tool for Cyrus to achieve a form of immortality. Akbar discusses how art allows individuals to preserve their essence beyond physical existence, offering a legacy through language and stories.
Kaveh Akbar (03:42): "Art is a mechanism by which people have sought immortality for millennia... the way that I talk is inflected by all of my geographies and all of my genealogies and all of my histories."
Cyrus's poetry project is his attempt to immortalize himself, reflecting Akbar's belief in the enduring power of creative expression.
The concept of martyrdom in the novel extends beyond religious or theological contexts. Cyrus seeks martyrdom for causes such as justice, dignity, and art. Akbar elucidates the cultural underpinnings of martyrdom, particularly within Iranian history and its portrayal in the novel.
Kaveh Akbar (05:24): "The way the Iranian government yoked itself to cultural and religious ideas around martyrdom and harnessed those towards its own sort of propagandistic ends is a story that I only glance upon in this book but could be the subject of... a million graduate theses."
This exploration provides a nuanced perspective on how personal and collective grief intertwine with cultural narratives.
Despite the heavy themes, Akbar injects moments of humor into the narrative, offering relief and highlighting the complexity of human emotions. For instance, Cyrus's role as a medical actor, where he portrays patients receiving bad news, introduces levity.
Kaveh Akbar (05:49): "I laughed out loud, and maybe I shouldn't have, of some of the sections of the book where Cyrus has a part-time job to educate doctors in which he plays patients who have to get bad news."
This balance underscores Akbar's ability to portray the multifaceted nature of life, where sorrow coexists with moments of unexpected joy.
Kaveh Akbar shares personal reflections on recovery and the exhaustion that accompanies a life in sobriety, adding depth to the discussion.
Kaveh Akbar (07:08): "I am a person in recovery. I've been sober for 10 years. But it can be exhausting. And I think that there is a part of Cyrus that feels very, very exhausted."
Acknowledging the challenges of recovery, Akbar emphasizes the importance of perseverance and the profound changes sobriety brings to one's life.
Akbar highlights his respect for Iranian poet Ferdowsi and the influence of Persian poetry on his work. He also acknowledges various cultural references that shape his writing style and thematic choices.
Kaveh Akbar (08:44): "Of course, there's a large biographical beat in the book that orbits him, but he's the great progenitor of so much else in Persian culture... Every Iranian household has two books, the Quran and the Shahnameh."
This blend of literary heritage with contemporary influences enriches the novel's texture and authenticity.
In Martyr!, Kaveh Akbar presents a poignant exploration of loss, identity, and the quest for meaning through art. Through Cyrus Shams, Akbar delves into the depths of human emotion, addiction, and the enduring power of poetry to offer solace and immortality. This NPR episode not only highlights the novel's rich narrative but also underscores Akbar's profound insights into the human condition.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps:
This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, providing a thorough understanding of Kaveh Akbar's Martyr! for both listeners and those unfamiliar with the conversation.