Ken Jaworowski’s new crime novel ‘What About the Bodies’ has a surprising tender side

Summary

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NPR's Book of the Day: Ken Jaworowski’s New Crime Novel ‘What About the Bodies’

Date: September 25, 2025
Guest: Ken Jaworowski, author and New York Times editor
Host: Aisha Rascoe

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Aisha Rascoe interviews Ken Jaworowski about his new crime novel, What About the Bodies. While the book delivers the suspenseful twists expected of the genre, Jaworowski brings a surprisingly tender, humane lens to the story and its economically bruised setting, Locksburg, Pennsylvania. The conversation touches on character development, the importance of setting as a character, Jaworowski's unique writing and editing process, and the larger thematic questions raised by the novel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Locksburg, Pennsylvania

• The novel is set in a fictional former industrial town grappling with post-boom decline.
• Jaworowski emphasizes how the loss of industry shapes lives, opportunities, and the mood of the town's remaining residents:
  • "Some of these towns in Pennsylvania ... are repurposing themselves from this hard industry past into nice tourist destinations. Some of them are not so lucky." — Ken Jaworowski (04:30)

2. Introducing the Protagonists

• The story centers on three main characters, each linked by struggle and dreams:
  • Carla – A single mother and waitress, scraping to launch her own restaurant.
  • Reid – An autistic young man bullied throughout life, now bound by a pivotal promise.
  • Liz – A down-and-out musician, finally on the verge of achieving her dream when new troubles emerge.
• Jaworowski describes their core conflicts and interconnected hopes:
  • "They are each facing some challenges, to put it mildly ... all could use a change of luck." — Ken Jaworowski (02:03)

3. The Novel’s Central Question

• Rascoe observes that, despite dissimilarities, all three protagonists are ultimately grappling with the same existential dilemma:
  • “How far would you go to follow your dream? Or maybe, for Carla, protect your son; and Reid, for a promise that he made, right?” — Aisha Rascoe (03:14)
• Jaworowski expands:
  • "The big question is how far would you go for what you love? ... But what happens if I asked you, well, what happens if you might be facing 30 years to life in Greaterford Prison? That might change your answer a little bit." — Ken Jaworowski (03:31)

4. Setting as a Character

• The economic hardships and limited opportunities in Locksburg serve as both backdrop and dynamic force in the characters’ lives.
  • "When you limit the character's opportunities, boy, it's catnip for a writer. ... When people get desperate, then the excitement happens." — Ken Jaworowski (04:30)

5. Crafting the Intertwined Plot

• Jaworowski contrasts his approach with past failed novels:
  • He previously struggled because he didn’t outline or structure his stories.
  • For this book, he planned the plot threads and intersection points from the outset:
    • “I have a desk full of old unpublished novels ... I didn’t plot anything else out. I would just roll along and see what happened.” — Ken Jaworowski (05:42)

6. Writing as Editing

• The author puts an unusually honest spin on his strengths:
  • He self-identifies as an editor first, rather than a writer.
  • His process: draft quickly, then edit rigorously — a reflection of his professional background.
    • “I wrote all the past novels. I didn’t write this novel. I edited it. I’m not being self-deprecating when I say I don’t know if I’m a good writer. … But I know I’m a good editor ... I plotted out a story and then went as fast as I could.” — Ken Jaworowski (06:09)
  • He completed the first draft in three months and spent four months editing.
  • He avoids distractions by writing on a computer without internet connectivity.

7. Industry Insight: Editing vs. Reporting

• Jaworowski reveals a key “industry secret” about writing:
  • Even top journalists may not be polished writers, needing editors to shape their stories.
  • “I have edited a lot of terrific reporters who are not great writers ... they're experts at getting the story ... but when they write the copy, sometimes they're moving a little too fast.” — Ken Jaworowski (07:15)
  • His editing work made him believe he could do the same for his fiction.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On who stays and who leaves a declining town:
  • "Most times bodies stay where they are buried. The living do not take the dead with them." — Reid reading from the novel (02:46)
• On perseverance and craft:
  • “If I can do that for a reporter, I think I can do that for myself too. And I hope I did.” — Ken Jaworowski (07:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] – Introduction to the novel’s mood and setting
• [02:03] – Overview and characterization of the three protagonists
• [02:46] – Author reads passage featuring Reid in the graveyard
• [03:31] – Discussion on the main question driving the characters
• [04:30] – Analysis of Locksburg as a character and economic backdrop
• [05:42] – Jaworowski’s approach transitioning from unsuccessful novels to planning this book
• [06:09] – Author’s writing-as-editing process
• [07:15] – Insights on editing journalists and self-editing as a novelist

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Summary

What About the Bodies is a crime novel with uncommon depth, using the collapse of a town and the struggles of its inhabitants to pose hard questions about loyalty, sacrifice, and survival. Ken Jaworowski provides a candid behind-the-scenes view of his journey — not as a conventionally confident writer, but as an editor determined to shape his own draft into the story he envisioned. The episode offers both literary insight and encouragement for writers who succeed by refining and restructuring, not just raw inspiration.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Ken Jaworowski is a crime writer. He's also an editor at the New York Times. And in today's interview, talking about his new book, what about the Bodies? He spills a bit of an industry secret. The best reporters aren't necessarily the best writers. He talks to NPR's Aisha Rascoe about editing his own writing the way he would for his day job. It's one of the most honest assessments I've heard an author give of their own skills because he says he's actually not sure whether or not he's a good writer, but he knows for a fact that he's a good editor. That's ahead.

[B]

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[C]

A new crime novel has a surprisingly tender side. Despite its menacing title. What about the Bodies is set in a town where the glory days have packed up and gone. Locksburg, Pennsylvania. The steel plants closed, the mines, too. And the folks who remain, quote, always seem to talk about leaving. Three characters converge there. They have little in common except they all could use a change of luck. And that's where we begin with author Ken Jawrowski. Welcome to the program.

[D]

Thank you so much for having me.

[C]

Aisha, give us a quick sketch of the three protagonists in this book. There's Carla, Liz and Reid. And obviously, without giving anything away, they are each facing some challenges, to put it mildly.

[D]

Yes, they are. They're facing challenges in the town they're in, as you described, is facing a lot of challenges, too. Carla's a single mother. She's been a waitress her whole life. She's trying to get some money together to start her own restaurant. Reid is an autistic young man who has been picked on a little bit throughout his life. And now he's made a promise that he has to keep. And Liz is a down and out musician and she's right on the cusp of her dream. She's just about to have that dream come true and all of a sudden some problems arise.

[C]

There's a passage in the book that I wanted you to read. It's where the character Reid is in the town graveyard. And he has this observation that becomes the title of the novel. Could you read that for us?

[D]

I sure can. Here we go. This is Reid. The cemetery is huge for such a small town. Because Larksburg was not always such a small town. At one time it was thriving for years and years. There were a lot of people in Larksburg, but most of them left when the coal mines closed. You might ask, what happened to all the living people and where did they go? But you never ask, what about the bodies? That is because most times bodies stay where they are buried. The living do not take the dead with them.

[C]

As different as the characters are, it does seem like all of them are kind of answering the same question. Like how far would you go to follow your dream? Or maybe for Carla, protect your son and read for a promise that he made, Right?

[D]

Absolutely. Look, I hope I wrote a fast paced thriller. I hope I wrote something entertaining and exciting. But I hope you can also do that and throw in a couple of questions about life and about what we think and about who we are. And you're right. The big question is how far would you go for what you love? I always say I would do anything for my children, and I truly believe that. And you've heard people say that I would do anything for my family, I'd do anything for my children, I'd do anything for my parent. But what happens if I asked you, well, what happens if you might be facing 30 years to life in Greaterford Prison? That might change your answer a little bit.

[C]

And what do you think about this fictional town, Locksburg, Pennsylvania? Because not to be, you know, trite, but it is a big character in this story, at least for Carla and Liz, that it's this place that they can't escape. But Reed sees another side of it because he has a real love for the town.

[D]

Some of these towns in Pennsylvania are absolutely can go either way. Some of them are repurposing themselves from this hard industry past into nice tourist destinations. Some of them are not so lucky. If you live in a major metropolitan area and you lose your job, there's a good chance you could find one somewhat soon. If you live in a small town and the major employer has turned down, you've got bigger problems. And money means something different depending on where you live. So the town itself, I believe, is a character. And it is a place that limits their opportunities. And though that's difficult for a character, when you limit the character's opportunities, boy, it's catnip. For a writer, you all of a sudden, when people get desperate, then the excitement happens.

[C]

These are three different characters and there's a question of like, well, how are these stories going to intersect towards the end of the book? Because they're going and seem to be going in very different directions. How did you plot that out? Like, did you kind of start at the end of the book and work your way back? Or how did you get that? Did you have that in mind, how they were all going to end up getting together?

[D]

I have a desk full of old unpublished novels that are collecting dust and they should collect dust cause they're so terrible. And I think the reason I didn't have success with them is because I didn't plot anything else out. I would just roll along and see what happened.

[C]

What made you go, okay, I'm gonna start approaching this differently. Cause a lot of people, if they wrote some novels, they didn't work out, they might not keep going.

[D]

Oh, I love this question. I wrote all the past novels. I didn't write this novel. I edited it. Mostly. I'm not being self deprecating when I say I don't know if I'm a good writer. I think I am, I hope I am, but I'm not sure if I'm a good writer. But I know I'm a good editor because that's what I get paid to do. And that's what I've gotten paid to do for 20 years is edit. So what I said this time is plot out a story and then go as fast as you can. Don't worry about dotting the I's and crossing the t's. Don't worry about if you're spelling things right. You can go back to those later. And the Internet is the biggest enemy of any writer. I will think about a fact and I'm like, oh, I'll go look that up. And the next thing I know, I go down a rabbit hole. So I said, I also worked on a computer with no Internet connection and I said, I'm not going to do that. So I went as fast as possible. Took 3 months to write it, but took 4 months to edit it well.

[C]

And you said that's what you get paid to do because you're an editor at the New York Times, right? Yes, I am. So that's your day. And so you took those skills and put it to use in this book, Correct.

[D]

I have edited a lot of terrific reporters who are not great writers. They're experts at getting the story, they're expert at talking to people and teasing a good answer out. But when they write the copy, sometimes they're moving a little too fast. Sometimes they're just not really as skilled in writing as they are in reporting. And sometimes they will come over to you after you finished editing their story and they say, that's exactly how I wanted to say it. And I thought, if I can do that for a reporter, I think I can do that for myself too. And I hope I did.

[C]

That's writer Ken Javierowski. His new novel is what about the Bodies. Thank you so much for joining us.

[D]

Thank you so much, Aishi. I appreciate it.

[A]

And just a reminder that signing up for book of the day plus is a great way to support NPR's book coverage and public media. And you'll get to listen to every episode. So sponsor free. So please go find out [e-mail] BookOfTheDay.

[E]

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