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Andrew Limbong
Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Remember how some music CDs used to come with a parental advisory sticker? As a parent, that mostly meant the album had some curse words in it, and as a kid it meant, well, that it had some curse words in it. So it had to be cool. Comic books used to have a similar label on them. It was called the Comics Code Authority. And as we'll hear about in today's interview, the Comics Code was in part established due to gory and violent horror comics again, a selection of which are now collected in the new book Lost Marvel's One Tower of Shadows. The book's editor, Michael Dean, talked to NPR's Aisha Rascoe about what differentiated these comics from their superhero siblings. It wasn't just the gore, it was also their complex attitudes about morality. That's coming up.
Jake Kalik
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Michael Dean
Comic books in the 1950s were full of superheroes swishing about in their capes and masks. But another genre was gaining ground fast. Horror. These comics featured vampires, werewolves, axe murderers, and gory depictions of violence. They triggered a full blown moral panic. In response, the Comics Code Authority, a self regulating industry body, was forced to act.
Aisha Rascoe
They actually outlawed the word horror and they forbade the use of vampires. Werewolves. It was really a strong effort to kind of make comics kind of antiseptic.
Michael Dean
That's Michael Dean, editor of a new collection of long forgotten Marvel horror comics called Lost Marvel's One Tower of Shadows. They were first published in 1969, by which time social attitudes had begun to shift. I started our conversation by asking Dean how the horror ban played out more than a decade earlier.
Aisha Rascoe
There was a big backlash against comics. Parents boycotted him. There was a book called Seduction of the Innocent by Frederick Wertham, which focused on comics as a cause of juvenile delinquency. And there was a Senate subcommittee hearing, and one of their primary targets was a line of comics called EC Comics. Those are known today as some of the best artists and writers in the history of comics. But they were also very horrific, even by today's standards. People would be kind of shocked by some of the stories that they told.
Michael Dean
And were these, like, Tales from the Crypt and stuff like that a lot over there?
Aisha Rascoe
That's exactly right, yes.
Michael Dean
Which most people remember, that HBO series and the Crypt Keeper and all that stuff.
Aisha Rascoe
That's right. Today, we. We appreciate them probably a lot more than Frederick Wertham did back then.
Michael Dean
The first story in the Lost Marvels, number one, Tower of Shadows, is called at the Stroke of Midnight. And of course, it was edited by Stan Lee. This story, it starts the collection off very strongly. Is that one of your favorites out of this?
Aisha Rascoe
I would say it is. It's probably my favorite story. There's a lot of really good stories in there, and especially because of the art, these are the top line of Marvel's artists. All the ones that made their superhero comics famous are also here in this Tower of Shadows. Steranko really stood out.
Michael Dean
And you're talking about Jim Steranko. Jim Steranko. He's the artist.
Aisha Rascoe
Yeah, but he drew them in such a way that they used a lot of cinematic elements, but they also used narrative devices that you could only do in comics, because in comics, time gets translated spatially. So he will slow things down. He'll break a panel up, a single image into several panels.
Michael Dean
Yeah, I'm looking at one right now, because this is about a couple. These couples are never happy in these stories. It's kind of like the Twilight Zone or those stores. So those stories. Yeah, they're on their way to this house. They want the inheritance. That's the other thing. They always want the inheritance, and so they want some money, and so they end up in this old, spooky house. And so I'm looking at one where you see, like, the stuff steps and the shadow is in, like, the last frame and all this stuff, but it's all, like, broken up, but beautifully broken up.
Aisha Rascoe
Yes, that's exactly right. The panels will stretch or they'll shrink, depending on how he wants us to feel the time. So it's very effective, and it uses devices that are particular to comics.
Michael Dean
What I found was while some of the stories feel dated, they have some problematic references that we wouldn't use these days. But one of the stories about the fear of technology, it was basically like a miner who was like, look, I'm not gonna let these robots take my job. We gotta be careful. I mean, people are still feeling that way, right?
Aisha Rascoe
Yeah.
Michael Dean
What stood out to you about these stories?
Aisha Rascoe
Well, they are somewhat in the vein of the old EC Stories in that the characters are not heroic, sort of lousy characters that did terrible things and deserved all the awful things that happened to them. When I first started reading Tower of Shadows, because I grew up with comics, I was at that point ready to move on from superheroes. I liked the superheroes. I liked Spider man, et cetera. But I was looking for something a little more sophisticated. And so when I ran across Tower of Shadows, I was delighted because it was something different.
Michael Dean
Did you run across it back in the day or are you talking about running across it now?
Aisha Rascoe
Back in the day?
Michael Dean
I remember back in the day. So you actually were reading these back in the day?
Aisha Rascoe
I still got those comics.
Michael Dean
Oh, wow. You were looking for something more sophisticated. And is that why you had these comic book greats like Neal Adams, like Jim Steranko, like John Buscema, like they appear in this collection? Is that why they would want to get into this, is because it gave them some more freedom to explore their own art?
Aisha Rascoe
Yeah, that's a good point. Because these are artists that have been drawing these superhero stories. So this is an opportunity for them to do their own writing. Sometimes they were artists who normally either only do the penciling or only do the inking. And here they were allowed to both pencil and ink their own work and using different kind of genre conventions. They weren't limited to the kind of flashy, clattering, kind of superhero battles that they were normally having to depict.
Michael Dean
That's Michael Dean, editor of Lost Marvels 1 One Tower of Shadows, which is out now. Thank you so much for joining us.
Aisha Rascoe
Thank you.
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Release Date: May 28, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong
Featured Guest: Michael Dean, Editor of Lost Marvels No. 1: Tower of Shadows
Interviewee: Aisha Rascoe, NPR Correspondent
00:02 – Andrew Limbong opens the episode by drawing a parallel between the Parental Advisory stickers on music CDs and the Comics Code Authority on comic books. He explains that just as the advisory labels indicated the presence of curse words in music, the Comics Code served as a regulatory measure to curb the violence and gore in comics, particularly in horror genres.
“Comic books used to have a similar label on them. It was called the Comics Code Authority... It wasn't just the gore, it was also their complex attitudes about morality.” – Andrew Limbong [00:02]
01:55 – Michael Dean delves into the 1950s comic book landscape, highlighting the prevalence of superhero narratives alongside the burgeoning horror genre featuring vampires, werewolves, and graphic violence. This surge in violent content led to a moral panic, prompting the establishment of the Comics Code Authority.
02:22 – Aisha Rascoe elaborates on the stringent measures imposed by the Comics Code Authority, including the outright ban of the word "horror" and the prohibition of supernatural beings like vampires and werewolves.
“They actually outlawed the word horror and they forbade the use of vampires. Werewolves. It was really a strong effort to kind of make comics kind of antiseptic.” – Aisha Rascoe [02:22]
02:57 – Aisha Rascoe recounts the significant backlash against comic books during this era. Key factors included:
“There was a big backlash against comics. Parents boycotted him... there was a Senate subcommittee hearing...” – Aisha Rascoe [02:57]
03:33 – Michael Dean inquires about specific titles affected by the moral panic, specifically mentioning Tales from the Crypt. Aisha Rascoe confirms and draws a connection to the later HBO series, noting a shift in public perception over time.
“That's exactly right, yes. Today, we appreciate them probably a lot more than Frederick Wertham did back then.” – Aisha Rascoe [03:38]
03:48 – Michael Dean introduces the central focus of the episode: the collection Lost Marvel's One Tower of Shadows, first published in 1969. This anthology republishes forgotten Marvel horror comics, shedding light on a less-explored facet of comic history.
03:48 – Michael Dean continues by highlighting the first story in the collection, At the Stroke of Midnight, edited by the legendary Stan Lee. He inquires if this story stands out to Aisha Rascoe.
“The first story in the Lost Marvels, number one, Tower of Shadows, is called at the Stroke of Midnight... Is that one of your favorites out of this?” – Michael Dean [03:48]
04:03 – Aisha Rascoe expresses her admiration for the story, particularly praising the artwork of Jim Steranko, whose contributions are noted for their cinematic quality and innovative narrative techniques.
“It's probably my favorite story... Steranko really stood out.” – Aisha Rascoe [04:03]
04:24 – Aisha Rascoe elaborates on Jim Steranko's unique style, emphasizing his use of cinematic elements and narrative devices exclusive to comics, such as spatially translating time and manipulating panel structures to influence the reader's perception.
“In comics, time gets translated spatially. So he will slow things down. He'll break a panel up, a single image into several panels.” – Aisha Rascoe [04:24]
04:45 – Michael Dean observes a particular storytelling technique in the comics, noting how Steranko masterfully breaks up panels to create suspense and emotional impact.
“... it's all, like, broken up, but beautifully broken up.” – Michael Dean [04:45]
05:15 – Aisha Rascoe confirms the effectiveness of these techniques, highlighting how panel manipulation can stretch or compress time to evoke specific emotional responses.
“The panels will stretch or they'll shrink, depending on how he wants us to feel the time.” – Aisha Rascoe [05:15]
05:26 – Michael Dean discusses the thematic elements of the stories in Tower of Shadows, acknowledging that while some content feels dated or includes problematic references, themes like the fear of technology remain pertinent.
“There was a big backlash against comics... people are still feeling that way, right?” – Michael Dean [05:26]
05:51 – Aisha Rascoe reflects on the nature of the characters in these horror comics, drawing parallels to EC Comics' stories where flawed characters often faced dire consequences, adding a layer of sophistication to the narratives.
“They are somewhat in the vein of the old EC Stories in that the characters are not heroic... they deserved all the awful things that happened to them.” – Aisha Rascoe [05:51]
06:25 – Aisha Rascoe shares her personal connection to Tower of Shadows, expressing her appreciation for its departure from traditional superhero narratives and its embrace of more nuanced storytelling.
“When I ran across Tower of Shadows, I was delighted because it was something different.” – Aisha Rascoe [06:25]
06:35 – Michael Dean reminisces about reading these comics during their original publication era, emphasizing their lasting impact.
06:54 – Aisha Rascoe discusses how renowned artists like Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, and John Buscema utilized Tower of Shadows as a platform to explore their artistic talents beyond the constraints of superhero comics, allowing for greater creative freedom and experimentation with different genres.
“These are artists that have been drawing these superhero stories... this is an opportunity for them to do their own writing.” – Aisha Rascoe [06:54]
07:24 – Michael Dean wraps up the discussion, thanking Aisha Rascoe for her insights into Lost Marvels No. 1: Tower of Shadows. The episode underscores the significance of this collection in preserving a transformative period in comic book history, highlighting the interplay between societal pressures and artistic expression.
Comics Code Authority: Established in response to violent and gory horror comics, mirroring the regulatory approach seen in other media.
Moral Panic of the 1950s: Led to significant backlash against comics, influenced by works like Seduction of the Innocent and governmental hearings targeting publishers like EC Comics.
'Lost Marvels No. 1: Tower of Shadows': A pivotal collection that resurrects forgotten Marvel horror stories, showcasing the talents of renowned artists exploring genres beyond superheroes.
Jim Steranko's Influence: His innovative art techniques added cinematic depth and narrative complexity to the horror comics, enhancing reader engagement.
Enduring Themes: Despite some dated content, the exploration of fears such as technological advancements remains relevant, demonstrating the timeless nature of certain narrative themes.
Andrew Limbong:
“It wasn't just the gore, it was also their complex attitudes about morality.” [00:02]
Aisha Rascoe:
“They actually outlawed the word horror and they forbade the use of vampires. Werewolves. It was really a strong effort to kind of make comics kind of antiseptic.” [02:22]
“It's probably my favorite story... Steranko really stood out.” [04:03]
“They are somewhat in the vein of the old EC Stories in that the characters are not heroic... they deserved all the awful things that happened to them.” [05:51]
Michael Dean:
“There was a big backlash against comics... people are still feeling that way, right?” [05:26]
“It's all, like, broken up, but beautifully broken up.” [04:45]
For those interested in delving deeper into comic book history and exploring the rich, complex narratives that extend beyond traditional superheroes, Lost Marvels No. 1: Tower of Shadows offers a compelling glimpse into a pivotal era of the medium.