Mahmood Mamdani’s 'Slow Poison' centers politics of belonging in postcolonial Uganda

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mahmood Mamdani’s 'Slow Poison' Centers Politics of Belonging in Postcolonial Uganda

Podcast: NPR's Book of the Day
Host: NPR (Andrew Limbaugh, Layla Fadl Mamdani)
Guest: Mahmood Mamdani
Date: December 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the acclaimed scholar Mahmood Mamdani and his new book, Slow Poison: IDI Amin, Yoweri Museveni and the Making of the Ugandan State. Through a discussion with NPR’s Layla Fadl Mamdani, Mamdani explores the themes of postcolonial identity, the inherited legacies of colonialism in Uganda, and the personal and political complexities of belonging. The conversation weaves together Mamdani's lived experience as a Ugandan of Indian descent, his analysis of Uganda’s turbulent political evolution, and the generational echo of these questions in his family—most notably, now that his son Zoran Mamdani is mayor-elect of New York City.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Background and the Question of Belonging

[01:49-02:35]

• Mahmood Mamdani recounts his experience as a Ugandan of Indian origin, classified as a "migrant" and "non-indigenous" under colonial systems, leading to a persistent sense of exclusion.
• This status, and being rendered stateless multiple times, sparked his lifelong inquiry into issues of identity and belonging—who is considered part of the nation, and who is not.

Quote [02:15]
“We were migrants and under the colonial system, migrants were defined as non indigenous.”
— Mahmood Mamdani

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2. Slow Poison — Colonial Legacies and Ugandan Statehood

[02:38–04:26]

• The book investigates the impact of British colonial legacies on modern Uganda, focusing on the regimes of Idi Amin and Yoweri Museveni.
• Mamdani argues that both leaders inherited entrenched, divisive colonial frameworks—Amin through his recruitment as a child soldier by the British and his embrace of counterinsurgency tactics, and Museveni through compromises made to maintain power.

Quote [03:05]
“IDI Amin was recruited as a child soldier by the British. He was trained in the arts of counter insurgency, which is basically a polite word for state terrorism... It had no space in it for those who were not black and who had come in as migrants.”
— Mahmood Mamdani

• Museveni is depicted as initially anti-imperialist, but ultimately forced to negotiate with the “reborn imperial system,” meaning the West.

Quote [03:59]
“When he came to power, he realized that he did not have the resources to realize his ambitions. He was confronted with an alternative... Do you make peace with those you considered your adversaries, which is the old colonial system reborn as the imperial system now led by the US?”
— Mahmood Mamdani

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3. Transformation through Exile and Activism

[04:41–05:41]

• Mamdani shares how time in the US and Tanzania, exposure to the Civil Rights Movement and anti-Vietnam War activism, prompted profound shifts in his worldview.
• His upbringing in a “highly racialized” Kampala left a mark, and his later activism catalyzed new beliefs about freedom and justice.

Quote [04:43]
“I went through fundamental changes... because of the civil rights movement in the US, then the movement against the war in Vietnam... I have no doubt that my orientation was affected... So I asked myself in the book, how did I change?”
— Mahmood Mamdani

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4. Reconciling Cultural Identity with Political Belonging

[05:27–06:25]

• Mamdani discusses the “challenge” of balancing cultural roots with shared citizenship.
• He highlights the universal migratory nature of all peoples and critiques the colonial-era fiction that everyone has a singular “homeland”—a notion enforced upon the colonized but not the settlers.

Quote [05:43]
“Human beings are migrants. Every people have a story of not just origins, but migration. Since the modern colonial system, we have been made to believe that each of us has a homeland... This tension between the migratory nature of human beings and the fiction that we all belong to a homeland.”
— Mahmood Mamdani

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5. Intergenerational Echoes: Belonging in New York City

[06:25–07:28]

• The host draws parallels between Mamdani’s experiences and his son Zoran’s campaign for New York mayor, which was also shaped by debates over belonging and migration.
• Mamdani credits family conversations from Zoran’s youth about identity and inclusion.

Quote [06:49]
“These conversations were conversations that were there when he was 7, 8, 9 in Cape Town. There were conversations about who is a South African. Who belongs and who doesn’t. It is the precursor to what Zoran was saying in New York: New York belongs to all who live in [it].”
— Mahmood Mamdani

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6. On Advice, Compromise, and the Courage to Name Injustice

[07:28–08:39]

• Layla asks if Mahmood has given Zoran advice as he steps into powerful—and morally complex—office.
• Mahmood says he avoids giving direct advice, but notes that Zoran has shown principled defiance, especially regarding positions on Israel and Palestine.

Quote [07:52]
“First of all, I wouldn't make the mistake of giving him advice... There are some issues on which he has refused to compromise. And the biggest issue has been his critique of Israel... refusing to change his vocabulary, refusing to denounce anything as the price of his freedom of speech... He signals the possibility of change.”
— Mahmood Mamdani

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On the fiction of homelands:
  “This tension between the migratory nature of human beings and the fiction that we all belong to a homeland...” (05:43)
• Reflections on activism and self-transformation:
  “How did I come to believe the struggle for freedom? So those are also some of the questions which drive my quest for self knowledge.” (04:43–05:27)
• Zoran’s political philosophy rooted in global questions of belonging:
  “New York belongs to all who live in [it]. Wasn't just a question limited to us as migrants from South Asia, but it was a broadly African question and it was a broadly global question.” (07:06–07:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:49] – Mamdani’s personal experience as a migrant in Uganda
• [02:38] – Book’s focus on colonial legacies in Uganda
• [03:05] – Analysis of Idi Amin’s regime
• [03:59] – Museveni’s compromises with Western powers
• [04:41] – Impact of exile and global activism on Mamdani
• [05:27] – Reconciling cultural and political belonging
• [06:25] – Parallels with Zoran Mamdani’s campaign in New York
• [07:52] – On giving (or not giving) advice about navigating power and compromise

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Conclusion

This episode offers a concise yet profound exploration of identity, migration, and the construction of statehood, as seen through both personal narrative and sweeping historical analysis. Mahmood Mamdani’s incisive discussion, filtered through the lens of his own shifting identities and ongoing family legacy in public life, makes Slow Poison a vital read for anyone interested in postcolonial Africa or the global politics of belonging.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbaugh]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. Mahmoud Mamdani is an academic, a scholar who spent years studying colonialism and international politics. He's also a dad, and his son happens to be Zoran Mamdani, mayor elect of New York City. But back to the elder Mamdani scholarly work. His new book is Slow Poison, IDI Amin, Yueri Museveni and the Making of the Ugandan State. And in this interview with NPR's Layla Fadl Mamdani, who is a Ugandan citizen originally from India, talks about his strong connection to Uganda and the quote, fiction that we all belong to a homeland. That's ahead.

[NPR Announcer]

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[NPR Narrator]

These days, Mahmoud Mamdani is known as Zohran Mamdani's dad, the political superstar that felt like he came out of nowhere to win New York's mayoral race. But before his son's political rise, his father had long been a storied academic focused on colonialism and anti colonialism in Africa. And that academic work stems from his own experience as a Ugandan citizen of Indian origin.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

We were migrants and under the colonial system, migrants were defined as non indigenous.

[NPR Narrator]

And that meant people like him were never made to feel fully at home in Uganda and were stripped of core rights that inspired a lifelong quest looking for answers on who belongs, who does.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Not and how it has changed over time.

[NPR Narrator]

His latest book, slow Poison, focuses on the making of the Ugandan state post British colonialism and the two autocrats that largely shaped it. In it, he argues that IDI Amin and Yoweri Museveni both inherited an intractable colonial legacy from the British. Idi Amin came to power in 1971 with the support of Britain and Israel, only to, as Mamdani puts it, refuse to be their stooge.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

IDI Amin was recruited as a child soldier by the British. He was trained in the arts of counter insurgency, which is basically a polite word for state terrorism. Besides cruelty, he was also obsessed with racial equality. It had no space in it for those who were not black and who had come in as migrants.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

People like you?

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Yeah. Who had come in as migrants over the colonial period or sometimes even before the colonial period.

[NPR Narrator]

The current president, Yoweri Masevani, like Amin, also came to power by military force. Then he compromised his own stated values in order to stay in power, meaning turning to the same Western powers he once railed against as imperialists.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

When he came to power, he realized that he did not have the resources to realize his ambitions. He was confronted with an alternative, which was do you make. Do you peace with those you considered your adversaries, which is the old colonial system reborn as the imperial system now led by the us as Uganda was.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

Wrestling with its independence, you and your.

[NPR Narrator]

Family are rendered stateless more than once.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

But you were always drawn back to Kampala when you could access it or worked in exile on Uganda.

[NPR Narrator]

What draws you constantly back?

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Well, I went through fundamental changes in my period in the US and in Tanzania. Yeah, because of the civil rights movement in the us Then the movement against the war in Vietnam. Because I had grown up in a situation in Kampala. I was the product of a highly racialized society. And I have no doubt that my orientation was affected. And so I asked myself in the book, how did I change? How did I come to believe the struggle for freedom? So those are also some of the questions which drive my quest for self knowledge.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

You write the challenge when it comes to political belonging and the building of a state. The challenge is how to reconcile cultural identity with political belonging and a common past with a shared future.

[NPR Narrator]

Can you explain that line to me?

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Well, look, human beings are migrants. Yeah. Every people have a story of not just origins, but migration. Since the modern colonial system, we have been made to believe that each of us has a homeland and that we have been a product of that homeland. This tension between the migratory nature of human beings and the fiction that we all belong to a homeland. Although this fiction only applied to the colonized, normally it didn't apply to the settler. The settler was supposed to be a person who was free to roam and to explore.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

I can't help but think but make the connection to your son's recent victorious campaign in New York because so much of it and the attacks on your son were about belonging.

[NPR Narrator]

And I just wonder if you think.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

About the influence of your own academic research and the conversations you had at home that have turned your son into a political superstar in this moment.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

I mean, look, these conversations were conversations that were there when he was 7, 8, 9 in Cape Town. There were conversations about who is a South African.

[NPR Narrator]

Yeah.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Who belongs and who doesn't. It is the precursor to what Zoran was saying in New York. New York belongs to all who live in wasn't just a question limited to us as migrants from South Asia, but it was a broadly African question and it was a broadly global question.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

Your book is coming out just at the time your son is about to become the mayor of the biggest city in this country and Uganda is not New York. But he is about to take on a very powerful and influential job. Have you given him any advice as.

[NPR Narrator]

He will be asked to make compromises.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

And have to figure out how to govern?

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't make the mistake of giving him advice. And of course he's my son, which means to me, now that I'm there, should he need advice. There are some issues on which he has refused to compromise. And the biggest issue has been his critique of Israel is pointing to genocide as genocide, refusing to change his vocabulary, refusing to denounce anything as the price of his freedom of speech. So he's done that and he has done it very successfully and he has shocked his opponents. I mean, he signals a change. He signals the possibility of change.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

Mahmoud Mamdani is the author of Slow.

[NPR Narrator]

Poison, IDI Amin, Nywheri Museveni and the Making of the Ugandan State.

[Layla Fadl Mamdani]

Thank you so much for speaking with us.

[Mahmoud Mamdani]

Thank you very much.

[NPR Announcer]

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