NPR's Book of the Day: Exploring Willful Ignorance with Mark Lilla

Episode Release Date: January 13, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong introduces Mark Lilla’s latest work, "Ignorance and On Wanting Not to Know." Lilla, a historian at Columbia University, delves into the psychology and societal implications of willful ignorance. The conversation primarily features journalist Asma Khalid, who engages with Lilla to unpack the complexities of human nature in the pursuit and rejection of truth.

The Nature of Willful Ignorance

Mark Lilla begins the discussion by posing a fundamental question: "Is ignorance actually bliss?" (01:30). He explores the delicate balance humans maintain between the desire to know and the instinct to avoid uncomfortable truths.

Asma Khalid responds by acknowledging that individuals vary in their inherent curiosity. She states, "We've all met people like this, someone who can't let their curiosity go" (02:33), highlighting that while some relentlessly seek information, others deliberately limit their knowledge to prevent distraction in their lives.

Personal vs. Societal Ignorance

The dialogue transitions to the broader societal implications of willful ignorance. Lilla questions what drives large populations to disengage from factual information (03:25). Khalid attributes this phenomenon to significant social changes and the widening gap between the educated and less educated segments of society. She notes, "There's great distrust now between the two groups, and we know all about that." (03:39)

Lilla further inquires about specific information types that people are more inclined to ignore. Khalid points out that medical conditions and mortality are prime examples where individuals both desire and resist knowing the truth. She explains, "There are often situations where both of them are at play. And understandably." (05:12)

The Role of Social Media in Promoting Ignorance

Mark Lilla probes the influence of social media on information consumption. Khalid responds by emphasizing the double-edged sword of constant accessibility to information. She remarks, "Incentive to sort of build walls against all of this or to group yourself among, like, friends." (04:13)

Khald cites examples from both political spectrums:

• Trump followers dismissing facts that contradict his statements.
• Biden administration allegedly withholding President Biden’s health status from the press.

These instances illustrate how social media fosters environments where willful ignorance thrives on all sides (04:13).

Types of Information People Avoid

The conversation delves deeper into specific areas where willful ignorance is prevalent. Khalid highlights personal health and mortality as significant areas of avoidance. She explains, "The will to know and the will not to know is within all of our heads." (05:12)

This duality reflects the universal human struggle to balance the need for knowledge with the desire to remain unburdened by certain truths. Khalid emphasizes that this internal conflict is a natural part of human psychology, influencing how individuals interact with information on both personal and societal levels.

Conclusion

Mark Lilla and Asma Khalid conclude their discussion by reiterating the pervasive nature of willful ignorance in contemporary society. They underscore the importance of recognizing and addressing the factors that contribute to information avoidance, especially in an age dominated by digital media. Lilla thanks Khalid for her insights, encapsulating the episode's exploration of the intricate dance between knowledge and ignorance.

Notable Quotes

• Mark Lilla (01:30): “Is ignorance actually bliss?”

• Asma Khalid (02:33): “We've all met people like this, someone who can't let their curiosity go.”

• Asma Khalid (03:39): “There's great distrust now between the two groups, and we know all about that.”

• Asma Khalid (04:13): “Incentive to sort of build walls against all of this or to group yourself among, like, friends.”

• Asma Khalid (05:12): “The will to know and the will not to know is within all of our heads.”

Key Takeaways

• Dual Dispositions: Humans possess both the desire to seek information and the inclination to avoid certain truths.

• Societal Impact: Willful ignorance is exacerbated by societal divides and social media’s role in creating echo chambers.

• Information Avoidance: Critical areas like health and mortality are common subjects of information avoidance.

• Digital Age Challenges: The accessibility of information online can lead to deliberate disengagement and selective ignorance.

Mark Lilla's "Ignorance and On Wanting Not to Know" offers a profound examination of why individuals and societies choose to remain uninformed and the consequences that follow. This episode of NPR's Book of the Day serves as a compelling introduction to the book's themes, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the perpetual tension between knowledge and ignorance.

Timestamps:

• 01:30 – Introduction to Mark Lilla’s book and the central question of ignorance.
• 02:33 – Discussion on individual curiosity and information-seeking behaviors.
• 03:39 – Exploration of societal distrust and educational divides.
• 04:13 – The influence of social media on information consumption and ignorance.
• 05:12 – Examination of specific information types people tend to avoid.