Mary Beard's 'Talking Classics' examines our obsession with the ancient world

Summary

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NPR's Book of the Day — July 16, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, NPR’s Alyssa Nadworny spotlights Mary Beard’s latest book, Talking Classics: The Shock of the Old. Beard, one of the most prominent classicists of our time, appears in conversation with Weekend Edition host Scott Simon. Their discussion delves into our enduring fascination with the ancient world—examining why relics like 4,000-year-old bread or ancient graffiti still capture our imagination. Beard invites listeners to question both the wonder and the discomfort found in engaging with Greece and Rome, and she reflects on the complex interplay between the past and present.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Childhood Experience That Sparked It All

• [01:18–02:21]
  Mary Beard recounts her first formative encounter with the ancient world at age five, when a curator at the British Museum let her closely examine a 4,000-year-old piece of bread.

  • This moment was more impactful for her than even the famous Egyptian mummies:

    “This ordinary piece of bread just hit the spot for me even more than the mummies.” – Mary Beard [02:21]

• The juxtaposition of the incredible age and sheer ordinariness of the bread became a career catalyst.

2. Why Are We Obsessed with the Ancient World?

• [02:12–03:21]
  Beard’s latest book asks why modern people still fixate on the long-gone Greeks and Romans—not just their epics and statues, but their everyday objects and writings.

• Despite her scholarship, Beard insists fascination does not equal admiration:

  “I don’t love the Greeks and Romans any more than virologists love viruses... they are vicious, brutal people I don’t want to replicate, but... unfailingly interesting.” – Mary Beard [03:03]

3. Finding the Human in the Ancient

• [03:21–04:44]
  Beard highlights how artifacts such as ancient graffiti humanize the past:
  • For example, a graffito from Herculaneum simply reads:

    “‘Hic kakawit bene’... had a good crap here. He’s boasting, really boasting about his bowel movements. Now at that point you think, I feel quite close to that world.” – Mary Beard [03:37]

  • Nearby, a baby’s cradle is found with the remains of a child—a poignant reminder of ordinary life and loss:

    “That’s tear jerking for me.” – Mary Beard [04:24]

4. The Ancient World’s Constant Presence in Our Culture

• [04:44–05:57]
  Beard argues that the classics are inescapable, continually shaping art and culture:

  “I’m sure that there is not a day since 19 BCE when the poet Virgil died when someone has not been reading his great epic poem, the Aeneid... You can’t really go out in the world and avoid the Greeks and Romans.” – Mary Beard [04:51]

  • She cites modern adaptations like Christopher Nolan’s upcoming film and literary works like Joyce’s Ulysses or the Coen brothers’ O Brother, Where Art Thou?, all drawing directly from ancient sources.

• Despite her reservations about idealizing the ancient world:

  “We might not like the ancient world. I don’t think I like it very much. But we can’t just ignore it. Or we have an impoverished view of our own culture if we try to ignore it.” – Mary Beard [05:39]

5. Addressing the Problems of the Classical World

• [05:57–06:46]
  Beard is candid about the dangers of romanticizing ancient societies:

  “They were the embodiment of imperialism, privilege, and exclusion. And they’re nothing to learn from.” – Scott Simon paraphrasing a common critique [05:57] “I’ve never wanted to say that the classical world offers us ready-made lessons... But... the ancient writers faced the same kinds of problems that we face.” – Mary Beard [06:13]

• She acknowledges both the alien nature and uncomfortable similarities between ancient and modern societies.

6. Modern Parallels: Leadership and Power

• [06:46–07:59]
  Beard frequently gets asked about comparing today’s leaders to Roman emperors:

  “Which Roman emperor is Donald Trump most like? … Donald Trump is not like Nero, sorry everybody, he’s not.” – Mary Beard [06:54]

  • Instead, she urges a focus on recurring structures of power rather than direct analogies:

    “You can see in the way that power operates in the modern world... You can see some of the structures of that back in antiquity.” – Mary Beard [07:12] “Julius Caesar was the first [to have his head on coins] and you didn’t come to a happy end.” – Mary Beard [07:45]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of ordinary relics:

  “This ordinary piece of bread just hit the spot for me even more than the mummies.” – Mary Beard [02:21]

• On relating to the ancient world through bathroom humor:

  “Hic kakawit bene—had a good crap here. He’s boasting, really boasting about his bowel movements. Now at that point you think, I feel quite close to that world.” – Mary Beard [03:37]

• On the necessity of engaging with the classics:

  “We might not like the ancient world. I don’t think I like it very much. But we can’t just ignore it.” – Mary Beard [05:39]

• On the limits of historical analogy:

  “Donald Trump is not like Nero, sorry everybody, he’s not.” – Mary Beard [06:54]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [01:18–02:21] — Mary Beard’s childhood encounter with ancient bread and its influence
• [03:03] — On academic interest vs. admiration for ancient civilizations
• [03:37] — Discussion of Herculaneum graffiti and human connection
• [04:24] — The emotional impact of archeological discoveries (baby’s cradle)
• [04:51–05:39] — The classics as an inescapable presence in modern culture
• [05:57–06:46] — Critiques of the classical world and Beard’s nuanced response
• [06:54–07:59] — Comparing modern leaders with Roman emperors and the lessons of power

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Conclusion

Mary Beard’s interview underscores the ongoing, sometimes uncomfortable, relevance of the ancient world. Her approach is irreverent yet rigorous, encouraging listeners to embrace the complexity of our fascination with Greek and Roman history while resisting easy moralizations or modern projections.
Talking Classics: The Shock of the Old invites readers not to revere blindly, but to critique, relate—and above all, to wonder.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello, I'm Alyssa Nadworny and you're listening to NPR's Book of the Day. Mary Beard is an academic and researcher in the UK. She's taught at Cambridge and the Royal Academy. She studies the ancient world, the Greeks, the Romans. And her new book explores this amazing question, why are we so obsessed with things both old and ordinary? Think 4,000 year old bread or two, 2,000 year old graffiti. Beard talks about the book called Talking the Shock of the Old with Weekend EDITION host Scott Simon.

[B]

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[C]

5 years old when her mother took her to the British Museum and they saw a 4,000-year-old piece of bread in a display case. The curator noticed that young Mary had to jump up to see it. So he opened the case, took out the bread and held it out for her to see. And that set off a career studying Ancient Greek and Rome. For Mary Beard, professor at Cambridge in the Royal Academy, classics editor of the Times Literary Supplement and author of many admired books on the ancient world, her new book, Talking Classics, the Shock of the Old is bold enough to ask, why do we continue to have this fascination with the ancient world? Greeks, Romans, Caesar, Sophocles and worlds more. Mary Beard joins us now from Cambridge in the UK thanks so very much for being with us.

[D]

It's great to be with you.

[C]

What do you think got stirred up in you that day that you saw this bread excavated from the ancient kingdom of Thebes?

[D]

Partly it was that sheer amazement, that wonderment that I could be allowed to get so close to something that was both so impossibly old and also amazingly ordinary. We'd been on the same trip to see the Egyptian mummies, which kind of every curious 5 year old I think wants to see. But this ordinary piece of bread just hit the spot for me even more than the mummies.

[C]

And yet you, you say in this book you don't love the Greeks and Romans any more than virologists love viruses.

[D]

No, I don't love them. You know, I think in all kinds of ways they are vicious, brutal people I don't want to replicate, but they are unfailingly interesting. What they write is really interesting, even when I don't agree with it.

[C]

Gotta say, one of my favorite sections is when you talk about a graffiti next to a laboratory in the ruins of Herculaneum destroyed by a volcano. Maybe I should ask you, the distinguished scholar, to repeat what it says.

[D]

Well, it's in very simple Latin. This is some graffiti which must have been written to just a few days before the eruption destroyed the town of Herculaneum, which is kind of Pompeii's twin sister town. And then it says, what did he do? Hic kakawit bene. Now I have to say I'm sorry, there is no other way of translating Hik kakawit bene than had a good crap here. He's boasting, really boasting about his bowel movements. Now at that point you think, I feel quite close to that world.

[C]

There's also a baby's cradle nearby, isn't there?

[D]

A wooden cradle. And in this cradle there was the skeleton of a little baby. And the little baby was sleeping, resting and pretty cynical hard hearted person touching that cradle and knowing that it didn't survive. That's tear jerking for me.

[C]

You write at one point, the Greeks and Romans have never stopped staring us in the face. How so?

[D]

I'm sure that there is not a day since 19 BCE when the poet Virgil died when someone has not been reading his great epic poem, the Aeneid telling the story of the foundation of Rome. So I think, you know, you can't really go out in the world and avoid the Greeks and Romans. I mean, look, we're all expecting Christopher Nolan's movie soon. It's adapting a book that was composed almost 3,000 years ago. You can't ignore them. You know, they are there. You read James Joyce's Ulysses. He couldn't have done that without the Odyssey. You look at the Coen brothers, oh brother, where art thou?

[C]

Right.

[D]

You can't do that without the Odyssey. We might not like the ancient world. I don't think I like it very much. But we can't just ignore it. Or we have an impoverished view of our own culture if we try to ignore it.

[C]

How do you make the argument which you hear nowadays that the classical world is nothing like the world right now? They were the embodiment of imperialism, privilege and exclusion. And they're nothing to learn from.

[D]

They are that. But I think there are some aspects about the modern world which replicate that. I've never wanted to say that the classical world offers us ready made lessons to solve our own problems. But whatever I morally think about some of the things that the ancient world in general stood for. I do know that that the ancient writers faced the same kinds of problems that we face.

[C]

Given your status as a classicist, are you often asked to weigh in on current leadership all over the world?

[D]

I am. The commonest question I get from journalists is which Roman emperor is Donald Trump most like? And I don't think there's much point actually in comparing any modern political figure to any, any single Roman emperor. You know, Donald Trump is not like Nero, sorry everybody, he's not. You can see in the way that power operates in the modern world, the way populist power operates, the way autocrats or would be autocrats operate. You can see some of the structures of that back in antiquity. And you know, one thing would be leaders heads on the coins goes back to Julius Caesar. Autocratic leaders want to see their heads on the currency. In Britain, we very used to our monarchs being on the currency, but Julius Caesar was the first person to do this and you didn't come to a happy end.

[C]

Mary Beard, her new book Talking Classics. Thank you so much for being with us, Scott.

[D]

Thank you. It's been a great pleasure.

[E]

Hey, it's Latif from Radiolab. Our goal with each episode is to make you think, how did I live this long and not know that? RADIOLAB Adventures on the Edge of what We Think We Know Listen wherever you get.

[F]

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[G]

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