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Andrew Limbong
Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong, and today we're gonna talk about clothes. The things that you wear, that your kids wear, that famous people on movie screens wear, they're all designed by someone. Someone has to say, let's put a belt on that dress or a notch on that lapel or a rip in those jeans. And oftentimes those people. These designers are very well known among fashion people, but not necessarily household names. In a bit, we'll hear about a biography of of the late Virgil Abloh, one of the main figures responsible for the current enmeshing of hip hop and high fashion we're experiencing today. But first, I spoke with the writer Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson about her new book about a designer who was just as influential but whose name has been tucked away in the fashion history books. The book is called Claire McCardell, the designer who Set Women Free. And if you've ever worn ballet flats or enjoy clothing that favors comfort over corsets, you have McCardell to thank. Find out more after the break.
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Andrew Limbong
Let's talk about pockets for a second. When I wear a suit, I've got two front pockets and two back pockets on my pants. On my jacket, I've got the two pockets on the side and there's the breast pocket. There are usually two or three other pockets on the inside. And plus there's usually a pocket on my shirt. But here's the dirty little secret. I'm not carrying that much stuff. Now my wife, on the other hand, when she finds a dress she likes with just two pockets, it is as if she had dug up a rare and valuable gem from the depths of the earth. Now, why am I babbling on and on about pockets? What does this pocket gender disparity say about us as a society?
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
So there really is this fascinating and illuminating history about why women don't get to have pockets in their clothes.
Andrew Limbong
To this day, that's Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson. She just wrote a book titled Claire McCardell, the Designer who Set Women Free. It's about the fashion designer who in the 1930s and 40s created, revolutionized the way we think about women's clothing, including pockets.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
McCardell always understood the psychology of clothes. She understood how it felt to move through the world. And sometimes you needed a place not just to put your items, like your lipstick and your keys, but also to put your hands. And she understood that it was very important to have a pocket, not just in a pair of pants, but in dresses and skirts. And she fought to include them in all her clothes.
Andrew Limbong
We met with Dickinson at the Maryland center for History and Culture, which is hosting an exhibit on McArdle's work. Walking in, it feels kind of like a department store. About a dozen or so mannequins lining the walls, all wearing McArdle designs. They have a similar silhouette fitted at the top with a skirt that flows down from the waist. All different types of colors and textures. I scan the room, and we land.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
On a popover dress, which is basically a wrap dress. And so I think a lot of people think that Diane von Furstenberg pioneered the wrap dress.
Andrew Limbong
But Dickinson says It began with McCardell. This version is white with a thin black patterning. It comes in at the waist with a simple belt you can tie into a knot.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
So During World War II, there was this increasingly difficult challenge, which is, what do women wear? This was something that Claire McCardell made in 1942 as a dress for women to easily pop on and off while they were working around the house, going to the factories, and just having to take care of their lives while their spouses were deployed abroad.
Andrew Limbong
The popover dress is one that is elegant, yet highly functional. Dickinson says that's by design, literally.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
It's really a very simple cotton dress that originally was meant to pop over your existing clothes, almost like an oversized apron. And Claire made this out of a material that was rarely used in women's wear at the time. She made it out of denim, and the original had a big patch pocket because she wanted women to have a place to put a garden trowel or a flashlight when there were blackout drills during the war.
Andrew Limbong
This was a time when women were facing a new world and they needed functional clothes to help them navigate it, which includes swimwear. We walk up to a glass case. It features a swimsuit that McArdle first designed in 1936. It looks fairly similar to a one piece bathing suit you might find today, with maybe a bit more coverage in the rear, except it's made out of wool. I will say, the first time I saw this, I was like, that sounds crazy. That sounds super uncomfortable. I can't conceive of wearing a wool bathing suit. But then I read your book, and in the context of what was going on at swimwear, a wool bathing suit seemed like a pretty good option. So tell us about how this came to be.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
It really was. I mean, they were called bathing suits originally for a reason, because women were supposed to wear almost like dresses with skirts, and it was only to go in and sort of wade in and, you know, take a dip. McCardell was a swimmer, and she always wanted to have swimwear that would move with her in the water and actually be something that you could swim in. Not only were there wool bathing suits, but in the 20s, there were wool swim stockings. You were required as a woman to cover your legs on public beaches. And McCardell, she did not believe in that at all. She got in trouble in her 20s for peeling her wool stockings off. And in her career, she designed bathing suits that both fit women's bodies, but also could swim, could dry quickly on the beach. And they were a little bit scandalous at the time because there was no swim skirt. There was fabric between the legs. And McCardell always had, again, the experience of the woman in mind. She wanted them to look beautiful, but she also wanted them to be able to swim.
Andrew Limbong
Have you ever tried one of these guys on.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
Oh, my gosh, I wish.
Andrew Limbong
Right.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
But I would get in trouble if I broke through that.
Andrew Limbong
Sure, sure.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
They know to lock up the dresses when I'm around.
Andrew Limbong
I see. I see. McCardell began her professional career after training at the Parsons School of Design in New York and spending some time in Paris. But Dickinson says McArdle's passion for fashion began elsewhere. So she was born in Frederick, Maryland.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
That's right. 1905.
Andrew Limbong
Shout out to Frederick, Maryland. Love the place. Good beer, good hiking. I don't necessarily think of it as like, a fashion hotbed. So how did she get interested in design and clothing?
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
So, you know, in 1905, most women made their own clothes ready to wear. Didn't exist really, at the time. There were a handful of things you could buy off the rack or off the shelves, but for the most part, you either sewed your own clothes by memory or by pattern, or the McCardell's brought in a dressmaker twice a year to help make clothes. And McCardell was instantly interested, even from a very young age, of the act of making clothes. She was preternaturally drawn to it.
Andrew Limbong
That sounds very fancy, but I take it that's a fairly Normal thing to have someone come and make your clothes?
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
Absolutely. It's something that people in the middle class would often have someone help to make clothes. Cause again, you couldn't shop and get your clothes, you know, from a store at the time.
Andrew Limbong
You couldn't just hop on Amazon.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
Yes, exactly. There was no Amazon.
Andrew Limbong
Yeah. Okay. A big theme of this book is how her clothes look on a hanger versus how they look on a person. And that the fact that they didn't necessarily pop on the hanger meant it was a rough time for her to like, get buy in from gatekeepers, whether it be like her bosses or like buyers at fashion stores. What does that say about how people viewed women's fashion at the time? And how did she sort of overcome that, Humphrey?
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
Her clothes didn't have what her male bosses called hanger appeal because up until that point, most clothes had been very structured. They had boning in the bodice or they had ways in which when you put them on a hanger, they had some structure to them. But she was making comfortable clothes.
Andrew Limbong
That choice served McCardo well. Women were snatching up these designs to the point where she was competing with the likes of the big Parisian labels and her biggest rival at the time, the Apollo Creed to her, Rocky Balboa, the designer Christian Dior.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
In my research on Claire, I found this amazing article called the Gal who Defied Dior. And it raised this question of like, what, what, what was the defiance? What was the beef? Well, the work that Claire did to free women with these clothes that allowed them to move about the world. In 1947, the war ends. Christian Dior comes on the scene and he creates something that was called the new look. It included that classic 50s look that I think we all think of the broad shoulders, the really tight cinched waist, and the wide full skirts. His desire was to, quote, save women from nature, meaning he wanted to structure their body to the clothes. McCardell always wanted to structure the clothes to a woman's life. And she was not happy about Dior trying to cinch women back into 18 inch waists. I mean, Dior's models were literally fainting at some of the fittings from how tight and restrictive the clothes wore. And she really did not care for this regression of women being objects versus women being autonomous and independent purveyors of their own lives.
Andrew Limbong
That independent ethos led to a bigger transformation, the creation of the American fashion industry as we know it today. This beef also encapsulates something, a broader theme in this book, which is America Finding its own aesthetic identity. Right. Because up until the war, fashion is essentially just like, aping off of what they're doing in France. Right. And then when the war happens, they're like, oh, France is busy doing other stuff, and she's, you know, coming into her own as a designer. Can you talk a little bit about how we finally. If we finally freed ourselves from the influence of France in our clothing?
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
Yeah. So you have to remember, when McCardell came to New York in the 1920s, there was no American fashion industry as we know it today. There was the garment district, and their job was to copy and steal designs from Paris. Paris was the fashion capital of the world so much that even American consumers thought, there's no such thing as American design. Claire McCardell and her colleagues, mostly women, pioneered the American look, which is what we all wear today. That's casual, comfortable sportswear. And they took Paris on, even before the war, as trying to become the style capital of the world. When Paris shut down because of the Nazi occupation, they had this chance to basically grow the industry and to prove themselves. And McArdle thrived in that moment. But when Paris returned, they wanted to get their title back. And so there was this interesting battle between designers like McArdle and the Haute couture designers of Paris. But interestingly, Christian Dior, who thought that McCardell was a genius designer, very quickly started to do Ready to Wear. And you start to see how McCardell's style and her business acumen began to influence the Parisian designers as well.
Andrew Limbong
Okay, so McArdle revolutionizes women's fashion, helps develop the American fashion industry, and even begins to influence other designers. Designers. So how come McCardell isn't a household name? Why isn't her jersey hanging in the rafters of the fashion gods, along with Coco Chanel, Pierre Cardin, Christian Dior.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
There's a couple of reasons for why We've lost Claire McCardell's name. One is she died young. She was 52 when she died. And while haute couture and Paris had a system for carrying on the name of a dead designer, as they did with Dior and Chanel, that really didn't exist in Ready to Wear in America yet. I think the other thing is she was designing clothes for the everyday, and her work is so prevalent as to become invisible, we don't even see it anymore, because she invented those everyday items that we continue to wear. Ballet flats, mix and match separates, wrap dresses.
Andrew Limbong
And if you ask Dickinson where you can see McCardell's influence today. It's all around us, from women wearing sportswear in their day to day to famous people getting dressed up for a red carpet.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
I just saw Zendaya wearing a bubble dress, you know, not too long ago. And you can look back and see the exact same bubble dress idea from McCardell. There are so many of our clothes today that you can go back and do. We should do a comparison of then and now. Really so much of her is in our DNA.
Andrew Limbong
Elizabeth Evans Dickinson, thank you so much.
Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
Oh my gosh, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Andrew Limbong
Her book Claire the Designer who Set Women Free is out now.
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Andrew Limbong
You know those things you shout at the radio or maybe even at this very NPR podcast on NPR's Wait, Wait, don't tell me we actually say those things or on the radio and on the podcast we're rude across all media. We think the news can take it. Listen to NPR's Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me wherever you get your podcasts. Robin Givhan is a Pulitzer Prize winning fashion writer and her new book is a look at a polarizing figure who on the one hand democratized fashion and on the other was upselling shirts to cost $500. The book is called Make It Crashing the Gates of Culture with virgil abloh. Here's NPR's Michelle Martin.
Robin Givhan
If I say luxury, especially luxury fashion, what comes to mind? Rich people. Check jet setting celebrities. Sure. So how was it that a streetwear loving black kid from the outskirts of Chicago with no formal training in fashion became an artistic director at the world's largest luxury brand? Pulitzer Prize winning writer Robin Kivan has a new book that tells the remarkable story of the late Virgil Abloh who before his untimely death in 2021, took streetwear and and the career of a fashion outsider to new heights. Givhan's new book is Make It Crashing the Gates of Culture with Virgil Abloh. And she's with us now to tell us more about it. Good morning, Robyn.
Michelle Martin
Thank you for having me. Michelle.
Robin Givhan
Why was he such a big deal?
Michelle Martin
You know, he was a big deal because he was so unusual because he had not apprenticed at a multitude of fashion houses, he had not studied fashion design and he really came from the world of T shirts and hip hop and streetwear. But what he did that was so unusual is normally a company starts out with a garment, and they build a brand around the garment. Virgil created a brand, and then he proceeded to put products underneath the brand. And because the brand was so powerful, he was able to kind of inject meaning into those products. And it made the people who purchased the products feel seen and feel like their perspective about what was valuable, what was beautiful, was being heard at the highest levels.
Robin Givhan
Was he kind of the precursor of the celebrity brand in some way creating a sense of belonging through wearing a garment? You know what I mean? I wear this, therefore I am connected to all these other people who like the same thing I like.
Michelle Martin
Yeah. I mean, I think in some ways he was even better than a celebrity brand. I mean, he was known because he had been an assistant for Conversation. Kanye West. He was known because he had such an enormous social media presence and because he DJed, but he wasn't really sort of the classic celebrity. And still he was able to create a brand called Off White. And he made it so meaningful to people that it didn't really matter that the clothes that came out underneath the brand weren't necessarily that unique. I mean, Off White was really known for hazard lines, for putting words in quotation marks, for these little red zip ties that were on the sneakers that he made. That's how you really knew who had made the product. It wasn't necessarily the style of the sneaker. It was the zip tie. It wasn't necessarily the cut of the varsity jacket. It was that it had these hazard stripes on the back.
Robin Givhan
And that was controversial because there were some people who thought that he really wasn't. Well, he didn't call himself a designer. Right. He called himself a creator or a maker. But he did have his critics, people who thought that you're really not doing anything.
Michelle Martin
I mean, when I was covering his collections, I was one of those critics.
Robin Givhan
So give us the short version of how Abloh went from an engineering and architecture student from Rockford, Illinois, to become the first black artistic director at the world's largest luxury brand, which is Louis Vuitton.
Michelle Martin
Yeah, he started out having this sort of serendipitous meeting with Kanye west and sort of got swept up in that circle of people who were wildly ambitious and deeply interested in design. Eventually, he dabbled with his sort of first big T shirt success with something called Ben Trill, which was really T shirts that were made by a DJ collective. And that really informed the way that he worked, this idea that you didn't have to necessarily write the melody or the lyrics. You could take pre existing ideas and mix them together in new ways and call that your design, so to speak. And then from there he bought dead stock from Ralph Lauren Rugby and he silkscreened Pyrex 23 on the back. The original shirt sold for about 40 bucks. He sold his versions for over $500. Oh my goodness. And they sold out.
Robin Givhan
How did he become artistic director at Louis Vuitton?
Michelle Martin
What I think really sort of propelled him into the sight lines of the folks at Vuitton was when he did a collaboration with Nike. And Nike wanted to reissue 10 of their most recognized sneaker styles. And he ended up being responsible for all 10 of these redesigns. You know, Nike is so enormous, it is more recognized than Vuitton as a brand. And when there's a success there, it really reverberates. And that caught the attention of vital.
Robin Givhan
He died at a very young age at 41, from a rare form of cancer. He had to have known that his time was short. Do you have a sense of what he thinks his legacy would be?
Michelle Martin
One of the things that was really remarkable to me, I was able to listen to an interview that Virgil had done back in 2008, and he was talking about how he wanted to mentor people. But even at that early stage of his career, he was thinking about mentoring. And he did that throughout his career. And of course, he also established a scholarship that eventually became part of his legacy.
Robin Givhan
You're a distinguished fashion writer and a distinguished critic. But inevitably when we have these conversations about fashion, the question arises, so what? Why do we care about a Virgil Abloh?
Michelle Martin
Yeah. I mean, we care about Virgil because at the very smallest level, there are kids out there who are making T shirts or maybe putting stickers on baseball caps. And they love design, they love art. And he is proof that you can take something that simple, gestures that simple, and you can lean into them. And just because you don't have the training or the classical background or all the access that you think you need that you can still get pretty far in the fashion industry.
Robin Givhan
That is the Pulitzer Prize winning writer Robin Givhan. She's senior critic at large at the Washington Post. Her latest book is Make It Crashing the Gates of Culture with Virgil Abloh. Robin, thank you so much for talking with us.
Michelle Martin
Thank you.
Andrew Limbong
That's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. If you want more, you can sign up for our newsletter@npr.org Newsletter Books I am Andrew Limbong. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and Mike Katsif and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our founding editor is Petra Mayer. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Elena Burnett, Courtney Dorning, Adriana Gallardo, Claire Marashima, Emiko Tamagawa, Todd Mundt, Destiny Adams, Kai McNamee, Timby Ermias and Milton Guevara. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.
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Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson
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NPR's Book of the Day: Exploring the Legacies of Claire McCardell and Virgil Abloh
Release Date: July 18, 2025
In this compelling episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong delves into the transformative careers of two iconic fashion designers: Claire McCardell and Virgil Abloh. Through insightful conversations with biographers Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson and Michelle Martin, listeners gain an in-depth understanding of how these designers revolutionized the fashion industry and left indelible marks on both American and global fashion landscapes.
Introduction to Claire McCardell's Impact
Andrew Limbong opens the discussion by highlighting the often-overlooked role of designers in everyday fashion. He introduces Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson, the author of "Claire McCardell, the Designer Who Set Women Free," who sheds light on McCardell's pivotal contributions to women's fashion in the 1930s and 40s.
Functional Fashion and Gender Disparities
At [02:18], Dickinson emphasizes the historical lack of practical features in women's clothing, such as pockets:
"So there really is this fascinating and illuminating history about why women don't get to have pockets in their clothes."
Limbong humorously contrasts his own underutilized pockets with his wife's delight in dresses featuring functional pockets, setting the stage for McCardell's revolutionary designs.
Revolutionizing Women's Clothing
Dickinson discusses how McCardell's designs prioritized both beauty and functionality. At [04:18], she explains:
"Claire made this out of a material that was rarely used in women's wear at the time. She made it out of denim, and the original had a big patch pocket because she wanted women to have a place to put a garden trowel or a flashlight during blackout drills."
This approach not only liberated women from restrictive garments but also catered to their evolving roles during World War II.
The Popover Dress and Swimwear Innovation
The conversation moves to McCardell's iconic popover dress, initially designed for practicality:
"It's a very simple cotton dress that originally was meant to pop over your existing clothes, almost like an oversized apron." ([04:18])
Dickinson elaborates on McCardell's innovative swimwear designs, highlighting her challenge to societal norms:
"She did not believe in requiring women to cover their legs on public beaches. She designed bathing suits that both fit women's bodies and allowed them to swim freely." ([05:27])
American Fashion Identity and Legacy
A significant portion of the discussion explores how McCardell helped shape an American aesthetic distinct from European influences. At [10:43], Dickinson states:
"Claire McCardell and her colleagues pioneered the American look, which is what we all wear today—casual, comfortable sportswear."
Despite her immense influence, McCardell remains less recognized today. Dickinson attributes this to her early passing and the nature of her contributions:
"She was designing clothes for the everyday, and her work is so prevalent as to become invisible because she invented those everyday items that we continue to wear." ([12:19])
Enduring Influence
Limbong and Dickinson conclude by affirming McCardell's lasting legacy in modern fashion:
"There are so many of our clothes today that you can go back and see the exact same bubble dress idea from McCardell. So much of her is in our DNA." ([13:06])
Introducing Virgil Abloh's Legacy
Transitioning from McCardell, the episode introduces Virgil Abloh through Robin Givhan's Pulitzer Prize-winning biography, "Make It Crashing: The Gates of Culture with Virgil Abloh." Host Andrew Limbong engages with Michelle Martin, a specialist in fashion writing, to explore Abloh's groundbreaking journey.
Abloh's Unconventional Path
At [16:12], Martin highlights Abloh's unique trajectory:
"He was so unusual because he had not apprenticed at a multitude of fashion houses, he had not studied fashion design and he really came from the world of T-shirts and hip hop and streetwear."
Abloh's approach to branding—creating a powerful brand before developing individual garments—redefined how fashion labels connect with consumers.
Creating Meaningful Brand Identity
Martin explains Abloh's strategy with his brand Off-White:
"He created a brand called Off White and made it so meaningful to people that it didn't really matter that the clothes under the brand weren't necessarily that unique." ([16:25])
Distinctive elements like hazard lines and red zip ties became signature features that resonated deeply with his audience.
From Engineering to Artistic Director
The discussion traces Abloh's rise from an engineering and architecture student to the first Black artistic director at Louis Vuitton. At [17:56], Martin recounts:
"He started out having this serendipitous meeting with Kanye West and got swept up in a circle of people who were wildly ambitious and deeply interested in design."
Abloh's collaborations, notably with Nike, showcased his ability to infuse pre-existing designs with fresh, culturally relevant elements, leading to widespread acclaim.
Legacy and Mentorship
Abloh's untimely death at 41 left a profound impact on the fashion world. Reflecting on his legacy, Martin shares:
"He was thinking about mentoring. And he did that throughout his career. And of course, he also established a scholarship that eventually became part of his legacy." ([19:57])
Abloh's influence extends beyond his designs, inspiring future generations to embrace creativity and authenticity.
Why Virgil Abloh Matters
Finally, Martin articulates the significance of Abloh's work:
"We care about Virgil because he is proof that you can take something simple and lean into it. Just because you don't have the training or classical background, you can still get pretty far in the fashion industry." ([20:33])
Abloh's story serves as a testament to the power of innovation and the importance of diverse voices in shaping culture.
This episode of NPR's Book of the Day masterfully intertwines the narratives of Claire McCardell and Virgil Abloh, spotlighting their contributions to fashion and societal norms. Through detailed biographical explorations, listeners are invited to appreciate the intricate ways in which fashion reflects and influences cultural dynamics. Whether championing functional design or bridging streetwear with luxury fashion, McCardell and Abloh exemplify the enduring impact of visionary designers.
Notable Quotes:
For those intrigued by the profound stories of these fashion pioneers, Elizabeth Evitz Dickinson's "Claire McCardell, the Designer Who Set Women Free" and Robin Givhan's "Make It Crashing: The Gates of Culture with Virgil Abloh" are highly recommended reads.