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NPR's Book of the Day
New books by Carl Hiaasen and John Seabrook tell distinctly American stories
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- [00:02]
Andrew Limbong
Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. There's obviously no singular American story, but what makes an American story? Sure, there are some books that are set in America, but really they could take place anywhere else. But there are certain themes and ideas that need to be present for something to be considered an American story. And I'd say the two books we've got for you today fit the bill in a bit. We'll hear about a real life family dynasty built on frozen vegetables. But first, Carl Heisen is on the pod today talking to Here and Now's Robin Young. Hyson is a former columnist for the Miami Herald, and his new novel, fever beach is a satire that involves bumbling white nationalists, corrupt politicians and a trip to Key West. What could be more American?
- [00:48]
NPR Sponsor
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- [01:50]
Robin Young
Carl Hiaasen is back and along with him in his new book, a ragtag group of wackadoodle Floridians, including the malaprop spewing bigot and insurrectionist Dale Figo, who throws plastic bags with anti Semitic flyers on people's lawns, has to form his own ragtag militia because on January 6th he smeared feces on a Confederate hero statue. Oops, white supremacists got mad at him. Then there's Congressman Claire Boyette, who can't keep his pants on or his snowshoes off. Yes, he wears them in Florida and little else for kinky sex. Boyett is being kept afloat by his rich dad and donors Claude and Electra Mink, who switched from the Democratic to the Republican Party after they were seated at A convention between the Utah state comptroller and a Halliburton lobbyist with breath like a bullfart. The nerve. They give millions to Congressman Boyette for his nonprofit, the Wee Hammers. Grade school kids building little houses for the poor. What could go wrong? Boyet funnels the money to Dale Figo to, as Dale says, Frank, fight the international Zionist cowbell. I think he means cabal. Are you following this? Oh, this is Carl Hiaasen's wheelhouse. A former longtime Miami Herald colonist, he's credited with coming up with that meme, Florida man. You know, Florida man gets beaten up by Easter bunny. Well, Carl said years ago that it was increasingly hard to come up with fiction weirder than that reality. What must he be thinking now? Let's find out. Carl Hiaasen's new book is Fever Beach. Carl, great to talk to you again.
- [03:22]
Carl Hiaasen
It's great to be here.
- [03:23]
Robin Young
You know, did I get it right in that summation?
- [03:25]
Carl Hiaasen
I mean, when I hear it all at once put together, it's a little unsettling that it came out of my brain, but you got it right and there's not.
- [03:34]
Robin Young
That's the half of it. You're going right at the white nationalist movement. Did you do research or was this just in the ether?
- [03:42]
Carl Hiaasen
Well, you know, Florida, I mean, this was a story I read about a month, maybe two ago that Florida contributed more January 6th defendants than any other state. And so it's hard not to be down here and have it kind of swirling around you. And especially now that a lot of the Florida people have moved to Washington apparently, or have been recruited by the new administration to go to Washington. So, yeah, I mean, it is the ether or the air we have to breathe, if you want to put it like that.
- [04:12]
Robin Young
Well, but yeah, they're, you know, going to Washington along with others from across the country. They won. But yet Dale Figo is trying to come up with this new militia with this new rage. And Congressman Boyet is trying to play off it as well. Let's read the list that you say he has composed. The imminent threats, the dismantling of the Constitution by leftist child molesters. The cyber hijacking of laser satellites by Zionist astrophysicist. The transgender conspiracy to infiltrate women's volleyball. And as he said, you probably haven't even heard. The woke mob is trying to ban eight balls. These are the black billiard balls that he claim the left is trying to make into rainbow colored billiard balls.
- [04:57]
Carl Hiaasen
It's silly, but it's not out of the realm of Possibility. Now, all these things that you once thought would never happen are all within the grasp of the extremist movement. And the problem. Whenever you write about real events these days, everything's a moving target because the headlines change so fast. So I was. I had to find that balance between satire and then what might really happen. Between the time I wrote it and the time the book came out, Fever beach was just something, you know, I had simmering. It started when I got the Ziploc baggie thrown on my driveway. Everyone on the neighborhood did. It was weighted down with, like, rice, and it had this horrible anti Semitic creed in it. But someone was driving up and down the streets throwing these things, and all I could think about were, who are those idiots?
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Robin Young
So it's real. Cause this is what you have Dale Figo and his friends do, right? And they don't even know if it's a Jewish neighborhood. It turns out it's not.
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Ari Shapiro
No.
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Carl Hiaasen
No. They go to completely the wrong neighborhood. But. But the neighborhood where I live, I mean, this has been happening in certain counties in South Florida, but it hadn't happened in mine yet. So when I did, I got that thing and I saved it. And in Fever beach, these guys, you know, the tide has turned. The election has sort of happened last November, and they can't get into any of the mainstream white nationalist movements. You know, they've been 86 from the proud boys from the Oath Keepers. They're such bumblers that they pretty much have to start their own group.
- [06:21]
Robin Young
Well, hilarity ensues. And so. Couple questions, Carl Hiaasen. They are not enough knives in the drawer or whatever the sayings are for. They're just.
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Carl Hiaasen
They're not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
- [06:33]
Robin Young
No. Yes. Or the sharpest tool in the shed. And so you start to feel like, gosh, should I feel sorry for these guys? A. And then B. Well, wait a minute. White nationalists and in fact, the administration they've supported have led to. Well, here's a Washington Post list. In a review of your book. The unraveling of environmental protections, the sabotage of science and medicine, the attacks on election integrity, the tirades against immigrants poisoning the blood of America. We would add death threats against cops like Michael Fanon who were attacked on January 6, who still live with these death threats. Did you ever hesitate to find humor in these guys?
- [07:15]
Carl Hiaasen
Well, I think. I mean, the trick to writing satire is you want people to laugh at situations that are not inherently funny, but make them laugh for the right reason. They're in on It. They get it. It's about taking these people down a peg. Satire can be a pretty sharp and effective sword. And, I mean, it's all I know how to write. I think people need to laugh, but if they're thinking about what they should be thinking about, they're laughing for the right reason, if that makes sense to you.
- [07:43]
Robin Young
Well, and we should also say there's another main character, Twilly Spree. He infiltrates Dale Figo's movement to try to keep them from carrying out their missions, although he really wasn't necessary, because they can't do anything. No, this guy, you know, an inherited fortune. He doesn't want an anger management problem he can't control. But deep love for the Florida environment, which we know you share. And then sometimes there's acts of violence, you know, blowing up the excavator that's taking down a citrus farm for development. He also will go out and capture feral cats. And I thought, oh, my God, he's going to kill the cats, because cats kill songbirds. But no, he's going to put a little bell on their collar. So, you know, he's a gentle environmental activist as well. Is he sort of Carl Hyesten putting on a white cape in a phone booth and saying, here's where I can actually do some of the things I wish I could do?
- [08:40]
Carl Hiaasen
I think all novelists live through one or more of their characters when they're writing. I mean, the characters say and do things that the novelists wish they could get away with doing. And I think in Twilly's case, sure. I just like the idea of someone that had as much money as the bad guys. Do you know what I mean? Because usually you're just outgunned. He's got more money than he could possibly spend, and he just chooses to spend it trying to save Florida. He has a. As you mentioned, he has a very, very short fuse. And I guess, possible we have a similarity in that sense, but, you know, your patience runs pretty thin after you see a place get bulldozed that shouldn't be, you know.
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Robin Young
Well, you know, it's funny you say you have a short fuse. You would never know it. Are you really, you know, walking around the house, rending your hair and screaming about the news?
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Carl Hiaasen
No, no. All the energy. Honestly, Robin, it goes into the writing. I wouldn't say, yeah, maybe it isn't a short fuse, but it's a. That's been burning a long time, you know, and it's just how I look at Florida and how I Look at the world. But that's where that energy goes. I don't go around ranting and raving very much.
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Robin Young
Well, but, and you know how this sounds to Trump supporters, many of whom are in your state in Florida.
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Carl Hiaasen
Oh yeah.
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Robin Young
But what would you say to them if they were to say ban this book. It's not true. It's not.
- [09:59]
Carl Hiaasen
First of all, please try to ban the book. That does nothing but help sales. Secondly, anybody who's been reading my stuff, whether it's newspaper work or whether it's the novels going back, whatever, almost 40 years, nobody that's actually read them will be surprised, shocked or upset by anything in them. So here's honestly what I would tell them. I would say if it really upsets you that much, then don't read it, just set it aside.
- [10:26]
Robin Young
Well, I'm wondering too, if it upsets you that much. Much of it is true.
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Carl Hiaasen
That's actually right.
- [10:33]
Robin Young
Much of it is true. I mean, there are QANON members who believe that Democrats are lizard people.
- [10:38]
Carl Hiaasen
Every day you can read about crazy stuff happening that's in that same ballpark. The trick is keeping up with it, of course. But you can't, I don't think, at least I can't start writing for the. This is going to sound different, but I don't know that my mission would be to write a book that everybody loves because it wouldn't have an edge to it. It would be soft and it would be dishonest because that's not how I look at the play. And I mean, that's one of the great selfish joys of writing. Satire is. Satire has targets.
- [11:06]
Robin Young
Yeah. Well, when I asked should we feel pity for these people as opposed to, you know, laughing at them, what I love is that you show where they get it from. They're constantly getting in their cars and turning on Alex Jones, who, you know, the Newtown child massacre denier, Laura Ingraham, Dan Bongino. They are getting all of their information from, well, they're not getting it from some of their favorite right wing talk show hosts because they died of COVID Which is true.
- [11:35]
Carl Hiaasen
That is absolutely true. And also some of the talk show hosts are now working for the government, so they can't listen to them anymore.
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Robin Young
Dan. I mean, when you write straightforward about some of the things Dan Bongino says and these characters are listening to him religiously and then we know that he's gone to Washington to be a deputy deputy at the FBI, Deputy director, I.
- [11:57]
Carl Hiaasen
Think at the FBI. At the FBI there'll probably be someone knocking on my door by the time this interview's done.
- [12:02]
Robin Young
Well, is your feeling about that like, oh, I got more material or hearts sinking, you know, like nothing I do matters?
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Carl Hiaasen
ROBYN that's a good question. But it's both, it's both so discouraging to see the attack on the institutions of this country by other institutions in this country. But at the same time, for me, the coping mechanism is being able to write about it and to write about it, I don't know, viciously is the word, but unsparingly maybe is a better word.
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Robin Young
Well, hilariously, ultimately. Carl Hiason. His new novel is Fever Beach. Carl, thanks so much.
- [12:41]
Carl Hiaasen
Thank you, Robin.
- [12:43]
Ari Shapiro
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- [12:48]
John Seabrook
Monthly payments so you could focus on.
- [12:51]
Ari Shapiro
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- [13:10]
Andrew Limbong
Seabrook's new nonfiction book is titled the Spanish the Rise and Fall of an American Dynasty. And it's a dynasty Seabrook knows well. He's writing about his own family, but the book isn't hagiography. It's an honest look at his past, at what his ancestors did to climb the ranks and the people who had to suffer the consequences. Here's NPR's Ari Shapiro.
- [13:33]
Ari Shapiro
In the classic sci fi movie 2001 A Space Odyssey, there is a blink and you'll miss it moment. One of the astronauts is on his way to the moon, sucking down some space food. And the food packet is labeled Seabrook Farms Liquipack. That shows how big Seabrook Farms was in the mid 20th century. In 1955, Life magazine called the New Jersey company the biggest vegetable factory on earth. The family that owned and ran this farming empire was straight out of succession, ruthless, backstabbing, an alcoholic. A new book tells this story. It's called the Spinach King the Rise and Fall of an American Dynasty. And the author, John Seabrook, knows the characters well because they are his relatives. John Seabrook, welcome to ALL THINGS considered.
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John Seabrook
Hey, Ari, delighted to be here.
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Ari Shapiro
What do you remember about your grandfather, the patriarch of this company, CF Seabrook?
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John Seabrook
Well, I only met my grandfather once toward the end of his life, and he was pretty far sunk into, I think, dementia probably at that point. So my only actual physical memory of him is a little scary But I certainly grew up with his reputation, which was very August, very sort of shining, spectacular, accomplished man of America, great capitalist. The book begins with my father reading the obituary that the Times published about him in which he's represented as a great man, a great industrialist and a great builder. Yeah.
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Ari Shapiro
So that obituary described him as this sort of American titan who pioneered frozen food technology and changed the eating habits of the nation. Your book kind of unmasks him. Will you read from early on? This is page 14.
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John Seabrook
Yeah. There's a passage on page 14 that reads, ambition, energy and ingenuity drove his rise, but violence and terror allowed him to maintain control. We often bury the details of how large fortunes are made, as the brutality underlying them is less inspiring to read about than the eureka, moments of accomplishment. Had the obituary writer checked the Times own morgue, they would have found front page coverage of tear gas and billy clubs, mobsters and vigilantes, and the burning crosses of the kkk.
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Ari Shapiro
That's partly a reference to a farmworker strike that took place in 1934. How did your grandfather respond to that strike?
- [16:10]
John Seabrook
Yeah, so my grandfather was a man who enjoyed total control and was able to enforce total control for several decades in the first part of Seabrook Farms. But in the 1930s, the workers decided that they were fed up with their pay and with the practices of my grandfather. So they decided they'd had enough. And even though farm workers didn't have a lot of leverage when it came to unions, there was no union. They did have nature on their side because there are certain times of the year when the work has to be done, or the crash, if the food.
- [16:45]
Ari Shapiro
Doesn'T get picked, it'll rot in the field.
- [16:46]
John Seabrook
That's right. And so they chose one of those times and they struck, and they had the company over a barrel. And my grandfather was forced to concede to their demands. Then he took them back, they struck again, and that was when the vigilantes and the KKK and the violence took place. And that was in. Yeah, July of 1934.
- [17:09]
Ari Shapiro
So he made a promise, broke that promise, and then responded with violence. How does this figure of your grandfather compare to either the diminished man who you have this memory of at the end of his life, or the towering figure that you were told about and read about as a child?
- [17:26]
John Seabrook
I think my grandfather contained many parts, and I wouldn't want to dismiss his accomplishments entirely. But he was unable to cede control either to his sons or to what eventually became the union at Seabrook Farms. He was just a man who could not share. He was an absolutist and an authoritarian. And as he aged and I think his powers diminished, he had to exert extra means to hang on, and that included violence.
- [18:03]
Ari Shapiro
It seems that in your family, fathers and sons have betrayed and backstabbed each other in truly shocking ways for generations. And there are members of your family who view your writing this book as yet another betrayal. Do you think they're right?
- [18:22]
John Seabrook
That's a very difficult question to answer. Am I betraying my grandfather by telling the world what he was really like? I suppose you could look at it that way, but I sort of feel like these traumas that take place in families, whether you identify them and make them public or whether you keep them quiet and sweep it under the rug, they find their way down through the generations, kind of like water trickling through rocks, and they end up, you know, they see gravity, and that's the most recent generation. So I have a son and I have a daughter, and I certainly don't want that sort of, you know, wastewater seeping down into our relationship. And I wanted the truth out so that, you know, we are at least on a honest and firm basis for a relationship that I feel like is important.
- [19:17]
Ari Shapiro
There's a broad question about what any of us should do when our advantages come from the suffering of others. And I think many people in the US Benefit from the labor of people who were enslaved more than a century ago, which is something that we struggle with. But that is more abstract than what you lay out in this book explaining how your particular family privileges were built on the misery of Seabrook farm workers. So how do you think about the obligations that come with that privilege, either in your life specifically or more generally?
- [19:49]
John Seabrook
One of the things I'm proudest of in this book is that for the first time, the migration stories of the African Americans who came to Seabrook Farms from the deep south, from the Jim Crow south, has been told so, yes, certainly I owe a debt for my privileges that were based on the hardships of others. And in telling this book, I have tried to show those hardships and show how brave and how resolute these workers were. And in spite of my grandfather's attempt to crush them, we're able to achieve a union, and we're able to achieve rights, you know, now are able to have their stories told for the first time. And those stories are now going to continue to be told. There's going to be a monument to the migrant workers that's created down in Seabrook as part of a Mellon Foundation Grant. And I think, you know, finally the black workers are getting their due that they never had before. So I'm very happy about that. I'm not saying that sort of makes up for all of the privileges that I received, but at least it gives me a certain amount of comfort.
- [21:00]
Ari Shapiro
How do you feel about eating frozen vegetables these days?
- [21:03]
John Seabrook
Well, you know, frozen vegetables, I feel like they always got a bad rap. They're actually, I mean, you know, a lot of times they're healthier for you.
- [21:11]
Ari Shapiro
If a fresh vegetation ad for Seabrook Farms frozen vegetables.
- [21:14]
John Seabrook
Try the creamed spinach, kids. Try the creamed spinach. You'll love it.
- [21:19]
Ari Shapiro
John Seabrook's new book is the Spinach the Rise and Fall of an American Dynasty. Thank you so much.
- [21:25]
John Seabrook
Thank you, Ari. It's been really fun.
- [21:29]
Andrew Limbong
That is it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. If you want more, you can sign up for our newsletter@npr.org Newsletter Books I'm Andrew Limbong. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our founding editor is Petra Maier. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Courtney Dorning, Erica Ryan, Melissa Gray, Samantha Balaban, Sarah Handel, Cass, Catherine Fink, Todd Mundt, Emiko Tamagawa, Christopher Intagliata, and Jordan Marie Smith. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.
- [22:11]
Ari Shapiro
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- [22:48]
NPR Sponsor
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