New books by Irene Vega, Tim Weiner chronicle changes to federal agencies under Trump

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Episode Summary Release Date: August 1, 2025

Overview

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong delves into two compelling new publications that shed light on significant shifts within federal agencies under President Trump. The featured books are Irene Vega's Bordering on Immigration Agents: Negotiating Race and Morality and Tim Weiner's The CIA in the 21st Century. Both authors provide in-depth analyses of their respective agencies, offering insights into the moral and operational challenges faced by their subjects.

---

1. Irene Vega's Bordering on Immigration Agents: Negotiating Race and Morality

Background and Research Focus

Irene Vega, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of California, Irvine, explores the complex dynamics within U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in her book. Growing up in a small border town on the U.S.-Mexico frontier, Vega's personal experiences inform her scholarly investigation into ICE agents' moral frameworks and racial dynamics.

Key Insights

• Expansion of ICE Under Trump: The episode highlights the significant growth of ICE during the Trump administration, supported by a policy bill allocating approximately $170 billion to border and immigration enforcement. This funding aimed to hire an additional 10,000 ICE agents, supplementing an estimated 20,000 existing personnel across 400 offices.

• Moral Economy of Immigration Control: Vega introduces the concept of the "moral economy" within ICE, referring to the normative ideas about right and wrong that influence agents' actions. She states, “I want to understand how those ideas that they take for granted is normal as the way things are and should be” (02:52). This framework shapes agents' willingness to perform their duties and maintain the status quo of the U.S. immigration system.

• Agent Morality and Conflict: Contrary to expectations, Vega found that most ICE agents express pride in their work, particularly when apprehending individuals with criminal records whom they perceive as threats. However, she notes a scarcity of "archetypal bad guys," as agents frequently deal with individuals of varying legal statuses, not all of whom have criminal backgrounds. Vega recounts, “the focus not on those criminal aliens... but a focus on undocumented people writ large” (04:10), highlighting a shift in enforcement priorities.

• Racial and Personal Tensions: A significant portion of the interviewed ICE agents are Latino, many of whom have personal or familial ties to immigration. Vega discusses how these agents navigate the tension between their professional roles and their immigrant backgrounds, stating, “this is an unescapable part of their experience” (06:28). She emphasizes the pervasive racialized nature of the U.S. immigration system and how it impacts agents' identities and actions.

• Stigma Management: Vega dedicates a chapter to "stigma management strategies," where agents mitigate public criticism and maintain their self-perception amidst their controversial roles. This allows them to continue their duties without internal conflict overtaking their professional responsibilities (05:55).

• Future of ICE: Reflecting on the policy bill's provisions, Vega considers the implications of hiring 10,000 new agents. She expresses concern for the younger generation attracted to ICE roles through aggressive recruitment but also notes the potential for improved economic opportunities in border communities (07:41).

Notable Quote

"Most of the agents that I spoke to felt pride in their work, and they felt especially prideful about their job when they saw themselves getting the quote, unquote, bad guys." — Irene Vega (03:54)

---

2. Tim Weiner's The CIA in the 21st Century

Current State of the CIA

Tim Weiner's latest work offers a meticulously reported examination of the Central Intelligence Agency's operations during President Trump's administration. The book underscores the challenges the CIA faces in maintaining efficacy amidst political turbulence and evolving espionage tactics.

Key Insights

• Evolving Espionage Landscape: Weiner discusses how technological advancements have transformed espionage, making traditional spycraft more difficult. He remarks, “It's a challenge unlike any in the history of espionage” (09:58), highlighting the complexities introduced by pervasive surveillance technologies such as retina scanners and AI.

• Cybersecurity Threats: An example of the heightened challenges includes the 2018 cyberattack by Chinese hackers on the Federal Office of Personnel Management, which compromised sensitive data of 22 million federal employees, including CIA operatives. Weiner explains, “They crunch this data with retinal scans that they stole from international airports” (10:12), illustrating the sophisticated methods adversaries now employ.

• Intelligence Community's Response: The episode emphasizes the structural and cultural shifts within the CIA under Trump. Weiner describes a state where officers feel compelled to "keep their heads down," leading to a decline in proactive intelligence operations. He states, “people are just trying to keep their heads down, which is not ideal for an intelligence agency” (14:16).

• Ideological Conflicts: Weiner reveals internal discontent within the CIA, particularly from long-serving officers who perceive the administration's directives as contrary to the agency's mission. He recounts an incident where President Trump directed the U.S. to align with adversaries against a UN resolution condemning Russia's actions in Ukraine, leading to feelings of betrayal among CIA staff (12:55).

• Leadership and Morale: Under CIA Director John Ratcliffe, a known MAGA supporter, the agency has seen an exodus of experienced personnel and a dismissal of new hires. Weiner notes, “ideology is the enemy of intelligence” (13:31), emphasizing the detrimental impact of politicized leadership on agency morale and effectiveness.

• Future of the CIA: Looking ahead, Weiner contemplates the sustainability of the CIA's current trajectory. He asserts, “I cannot imagine America as a superpower without an intelligence service to warn of dangers over the horizon” (16:25), underscoring the essential role of intelligence in national security despite present adversities.

Notable Quote

"The gut-wrenching, nauseating feeling that the President of the United States has gone over to the other side and joined the Axis of authoritarianism is hard for an outsider to understand." — Tim Weiner (12:55)

---

Conclusion

This episode of NPR's Book of the Day provides a profound exploration of two pivotal federal agencies under the Trump administration. Irene Vega's sociological perspective offers a nuanced understanding of ICE agents grappling with racial and moral complexities, while Tim Weiner's investigative work exposes the internal struggles and external challenges faced by the CIA in an era of political upheaval and technological advancement. Together, these books illuminate the intricate interplay between policy, personal identity, and institutional integrity within the U.S. federal landscape.

---

Notable Timestamped Quotes

1. Irene Vega on Pride in Work
   03:54
   “Most of the agents that I spoke to felt pride in their work, and they felt especially prideful about their job when they saw themselves getting the quote, unquote, bad guys.”

2. Irene Vega on Racial and Professional Tension
   06:28
   “This is an unescapable part of their experience... Given the racialized character of the US.”

3. Tim Weiner on Espionage Challenges
   09:58
   “It's a challenge unlike any in the history of espionage...”

4. Tim Weiner on Presidential Betrayal
   12:55
   “The gut-wrenching, nauseating feeling that the President of the United States has gone over to the other side and joined the Axis of authoritarianism is hard for an outsider to understand.”

5. Tim Weiner on the Importance of Intelligence
   16:25
   “I cannot imagine America as a superpower without an intelligence service to warn of dangers over the horizon.”

---

By presenting these detailed analyses, the episode caters to listeners seeking a deep understanding of contemporary issues within U.S. federal agencies, offering both academic and investigative perspectives on the evolving landscape of immigration enforcement and intelligence operations.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. The federal government is going through a lot of changes right now, but the changes aren't the same across the board. Under President Trump, some agencies have been cut, some have been expanded, and some are in the middle of redefining their mission. Today we've got two books that tell the story of two arms of the federal government feeling vastly different pressures. In a bit, we'll hear about what the CIA looks like today. But first, one of the agencies that has been vastly expanded under the president is Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ice. Irene Vega is a scholar who's got a new book out titled Bordering on Immigration Agents Negotiating Race and Morality. For the book, she interviewed nearly 100 ICE agents to get a deeper understanding as to why they do what they do. And Vega talks to NPR's A. Martinez about the numerous ICE agents she spoke with who are Latino and were really struggling with balancing their jobs and their background. That's ahead.

[Unknown Sponsor]

This message comes from Schwab. Everyone has moments when they could have done better, like cutting their own hair or forgetting sunscreen. So now you look like a tomato. Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab. Get market insights, education and human help when you need it. When learn [e-mail] this message comes from Bluehost. Bluehost can make building a great website easy and offers a 30 day money back guarantee. Customize and launch your site in minutes with AI, then optimize with built in search engine tools. Get your great [e-mail] President Trump's tax.

[A. Martinez]

Cut and policy bill allocates about $170 billion to border and immigration enforcement. The expanded budget provides U.S. immigration and Customs Enforcement, or I, with the funding to hire 10,000 new agents in addition to the estimated 20,000 law enforcement and support personnel across 400 offices. Our next guest is a scholar on this workforce. Irene Vega is an assistant professor of sociology at the University of California, Irvine, and the author of Bordering on Immigration Agents Negotiating Race and Morality. So let's start off with just your background. Where you're from and how you've grown up has helped influence your research on this book.

[Irene Vega]

I am from a really small border town right on the US Mexico border in the American Southwest, and I grew up observing the immigration state.

[A. Martinez]

Now, over the course of a couple of years, you interviewed 90 immigration enforcement agents. A lot of your research centered on what you call, quote, the moral economy of immigration control. So what does that mean, and why does that matter?

[Irene Vega]

So the moral economy of immigration control, we can think about it very simply as the normative ideas that permeate agents work. Ideas about what is right, what is wrong, what is problematic, and what is just common sense. I want to understand how those ideas that they take for granted is normal as the way things are and should be, how that both shapes their willingness to do the job, their strategies that they employ to do the job, and then ultimately how that protects the status quo in the US Immigration system.

[A. Martinez]

How many of the immigration agents that you spoke to felt maybe conflicted about their work or maybe felt that maybe because of maybe mixed moral feelings that they have over this, that they can't do this job long term?

[Irene Vega]

Most of the agents that I spoke to felt pride in their work, and they felt especially prideful about their job when they saw themselves getting the quote, unquote, bad guys. They felt really good about their work when they could go out there and arrest people who had criminal records who they perceived were bad for the country. The issue, as I argue in the book, is that those archetypal bad guys, if you will, were really hard to come by in their job, because what immigration agents do most of the time, especially along the US Mexico border and in these border towns that I studied, is they process people who exist on various parts of this spectrum of illegality, that they don't necessarily have a criminal record at all. I will say there was one ICE officer who was on the verge of retirement. When I interviewed him, he expressed to me when how grateful he was to be on the way out as the first Trump administration was on the way in, because he was very concerned that what was the product of that would be mass deportations. A focus not on those criminal aliens, those bad guys that he perceived to be the most legitimate targets of their work, but a focus on undocumented people writ large. And I think that's what we're seeing today.

[A. Martinez]

How many of them feel like no one gets it? No one understands what they do, how they do it, why they do what they do?

[Irene Vega]

I dedicate an entire chapter to what I call stigma management strategies. Agents have ways to deal with those external critiques and to dissipate the stigma that they feel from the public to then again do their job in an unproblematic way when it comes to Latinos.

[A. Martinez]

Is it unfair to center a Latino officer's family history against the politics of their work, of what they do?

[Irene Vega]

I sought to understand how agents of different backgrounds understood and carried out their job most of those agents were Latinos who had grown up along the US Mexico border, who were immigrants themselves or children of immigrants, sometimes grandchildren of immigrants. So for those agents, this question was almost unescapable. I actually didn't have to bring it up myself in my interviews. They in telling me how they got into the job, in telling me their experience on the job, would bring up this tension between their professional background and their either immigrant history or their racial ethnic background. And this is because this is an unescapable part of their experience. Given the racialized character of the US.

[A. Martinez]

Immigration system, the recent tax and spending law will fund a significant expansion of this agency. The government has said it's hoping to hire about 10,000 new agents. What are your thoughts on that?

[Irene Vega]

The first thing I think about are those high school students that are going to experience a set of recruitment tools by the US Federal government as they seek to grow the workforce. But I also think about the other side, the paradox of that, that there are some people along the US Mexico border that are going to be welcoming this infusion as the possibility of better jobs and upward mobility.

[A. Martinez]

Irene Vega is the author of Bordering on Indifference, Immigration Agents Negotiating Race and Morality. Irene, thank you.

[Irene Vega]

Thank you. A.

[Unknown Sponsor]

This message comes from Amazon Pharmacy Ever been so sick that thinking of going to the pharmacy made you more sick? With Amazon Pharmacy, meds are delivered fast right to your door. You just have to make it to your door. Amazon healthcare just got less painful. This message comes from Wise, the app for doing things and other currencies. With Wise, you can send, spend or receive money across borders, all at a fair exchange rate, no markups or hidden fees. Join millions of customers and visit wise.comt's and C's apply.

[Andrew Limbong]

Tim Weiner's new book is titled the The CIA in the 21st Century. It's a deeply reported and sourced look at what it's like working at the CIA right now under President Trump. And Weiner tells NPR's and Mary Louise Kelly that most people are just trying to keep their heads down, which, as Weiner says, isn't ideal for an intelligence agency.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Gone are the days when a fake passport and a cover story are all a spy needs to get by. So what's an ambitious intelligence officer to do in this era of cameras everywhere, of retina scanners, of AI? Well, Tim Weiner takes on the question of how the CIA is trying to reimagine the art of espionage in his new book. It's titled the the CIA in the 21st century. Tim Weiner hey there Hello, Mary Louise. How much harder is it these days for a spy to spy?

[Tim Weiner]

It's a challenge unlike any in the history of espionage, which goes back to when Sun Tzu wrote the art of war 26 centuries ago. And Sun Tzu said, know your enemy. Well, the problem is your enemy knows you. An example of the challenges facing the CIA. Twelve years ago, Chinese spies and hackers broke into the the Federal Office of Personnel Management and stolen passport files, fingerprint files, security clearance forms of 22 million people who work for the federal government, including people who work for the CIA. They crunch this data with retinal scans that they stole from international airports. And if you are a CIA officer arriving undercover in Dar es Salaam or Beijing or any other of a number of foreign capitals, you are likely as not to be confronted by a Chinese officer saying, hey, Joe, I know who you are.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

We know exactly who you are. Yeah, I mean, I suppose the flip side is that the US can do the same thing. It's harder for America's rivals and adversaries. Harder for a Chinese spy to land in, say, New York or Minneapolis and not be immediately spotted.

[Tim Weiner]

Yeah. The problem there is that the Chinese Ministry of State security is about 20 times bigger than the CIA. And the Chinese have ambitions to project their surveillance state into the United States. I mean, the difference between the Russian and the Chinese services is that the Chinese want to know us and the Russians just want to screw us.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Is it mutual?

[Tim Weiner]

Well, screw thy enemy is definitely part of the equation here. Ever since the CIA was founded in 1947, it has tried to oppose, blunt, undermine, subvert Russian imperialism in the world. That took kind of a backseat after the end of the Cold War. CIA directors and their media underlings told the CIA's officers to be nice to the Russians, to, like, work with them on fields of mutual interest like counterterrorism. And one senior CIA officer told me that this was like a guy who goes out and buys a baboon, and the baboon rips his face off and then he goes out and buys another baboon. The Russians were not interested in cooperation. They shook your hand with one hand and picked your pocket with the next.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So let me bring us to this moment. We are in 2025, and the CIA again serves a commander in chief, a president who has openly questioned the agency's and their work. When you ask current CIA officers about that, what do you hear?

[Tim Weiner]

The gut wrenching, nauseating feeling that the President of the United States has gone over to the other side and joined the Axis of authoritarianism is hard for an outsider to understand. The feeling that went through the high levels of the CIA when Trump ordered the United States to vote with Russia, North Korea and Iran at the United nations against a resolution condemning the Russian occupation of Ukraine.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Did CIA staffers raise that specifically with you, that incident?

[Tim Weiner]

Oh, yeah.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

What were they saying?

[Tim Weiner]

You know, there's an ideological purge that Trump has ordered at CIA. And the current director, John Ratcliffe, who is a MAGA acolyte, has told top officers and analysts with 20 or 30 years experience to head for the exits, find a new line of work. He dismissed two years worth of new hires, everybody the CIA had hired in 20, 23 and 24. And ideology is the enemy of intelligence.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I want to separate out how much of what you just said is your view based on reporting, but your view, and how much is what you are hearing from people who are working at the agency.

[Tim Weiner]

Now? I have to say that people are trying to keep their heads down lest they get chopped off, which is not a good posture for the world's most famous intelligence service.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

A question on your sources. I covered the intelligence beat for years. I used plenty of anonymous sources to do so, and that was to allow people to speak more freely and to protect people who were risking their jobs. To talk to me, you used no anonymous sources. Are there stories you wish you could tell in this book and you couldn't get your source to go on the record?

[Tim Weiner]

I wish I knew more about how the CIA tried to rebuild its network of recruited foreign agents in China after dozens of them were rolled up, arrested, tortured, imprisoned and killed back about 14 years ago. And I wish I knew more about what is going on right now. It is a very dangerous thing to have an intelligence service in the hands of an autocrat. And I wish I knew if there is, in fact resistance at the CIA to Trump's foreign policies. The CIA is an instrument of American foreign policy. With the rarest exceptions, it does what the President tells it to do. And Trump has stated, you know, openly from his inauguration, his desire to seize Greenland, to take possession of the Panama Canal. The CIA does not have a history of saying no to presidents. I'd like to know if there's a resistance inside Langley, you and me, both.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

To end by looping back to where we began and the questions of how technology has made it so much more challenging than it ever was to try to spy, to try to collect human intelligence on your adversary. You've now written a couple of histories of the CIA, this one covering the first 25 years of this 21st century, do you think there'll be a CIA around in anything resembling recognizable form 25 years from now?

[Tim Weiner]

That depends how we get through the next three and a half years. The president of the United States is implacably hostile to the idea of intelligence. He thinks the CIA is the capital of the deep state, which it is decidedly not. There's a reason, Mary Louise, that they call spying the world's second oldest profession. It's been around since Joshua took Jericho. Spying is somehow inbred in our bones. We want to know secrets. We want to know what the other person thinks. And I cannot imagine America as a superpower without an intelligence service to warn of dangers over the horizon.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Tim Weiner, his new book is the the CIA in the 21st century. Thank you.

[Tim Weiner]

Thank you, Mary Louise.

[Andrew Limbong]

That's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. If you want more, you can sign up for our [e-mail] Newsletter Books I'm Andrew Limbong. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan and Sierra Crawford. Our founding editor is Petra Maher. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Destiny Adams, Adriana Gallardo, Katherine Fink, Jeanette Woods, Todd Mundt, Emiko Tamagawa, Fernando Naroman, Gabe o', Connor, Katie Klein, Tinby Ermias, Elena Burnett and Erica Ryan. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.

[Unknown Sponsor]

This message comes from Warby Parker. What makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost, like free adjustments for life. Find your [e-mail] or visit one of their hundreds of stores around the country. This message comes from Bombas. Socks, underwear and T shirts are the top three requested clothing items by people experiencing homelessness. Bombas makes all three and donates one item for every item purchased. Go to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Capella University. Interested in a quality online education? Capella is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Eduardo.