New books from Reid Hoffman and Bill Gates look at tech revolutions past and future

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Exploring Tech Revolutions with Reid Hoffman and Bill Gates

In the February 21, 2025 episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong delves into the latest insights from two titans of the tech industry: Reid Hoffman, co-founder of LinkedIn, and Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft. Both authors have recently released books that examine the past and future of technological revolutions, with a particular focus on artificial intelligence (AI) and its profound impact on society.

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Reid Hoffman Discusses "Super Agency" and the AI Transformation

Reid Hoffman’s book, "Super Agency," explores the transformative role of artificial intelligence in navigating the vast expanse of the Internet. In his conversation with NPR’s Steve Inskeep, recorded shortly before the emergence of China’s AI company Deepseek, Hoffman emphasizes both the potential and the perils of AI.

Key Insights:

• AI Investment and the Cognitive Industrial Revolution: Hoffman argues that the tech industry is still in the early stages of the "cognitive industrial revolution," asserting that current investment in AI is insufficient.

  Reid Hoffman (01:42): "If anything, we're as yet still underinvested and under rotated towards this kind of new artificial intelligence transformation."

• AI as a Tool for Managing Information: He believes AI will empower individuals by helping them sift through the overwhelming amount of information available online, making it easier to identify accurate and relevant data.

  Reid Hoffman (02:24): "How do we navigate that? How do we figure out which things are accurate?"

• Responsible AI Usage: Hoffman highlights the importance of using AI responsibly, ensuring that it aids in producing accurate and meaningful content without merely generating more information.

  Reid Hoffman (03:53): "What's relevant is can we find this stuff and engage with the stuff that really matters to our lives and to our work."

• Political Stance and Industry Influence: Beyond technology, Hoffman discusses his political engagements, including supporting Kamala Harris over Donald Trump in 2024, and critiques fellow tech leaders’ political affiliations and responsibilities.

  Reid Hoffman (05:40): "What we need to get to as a society is how do we get good markers for discovering truth."

Notable Quote:

• On the beginning of the AI revolution:

  Reid Hoffman (01:56): "I think we're just at the very beginning of this really incredible, what I call the cognitive industrial revolution."

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Bill Gates Reflects on "Source Code" and Microsoft's Journey

Bill Gates shares his memoir, "Source Code," providing a personal look into the formation of Microsoft and his journey as one of America’s most influential entrepreneurs. In his interview with Scott Detrow, Gates recounts pivotal moments, including the tragic loss of his best friend, Kent Evans, which profoundly influenced his path.

Key Insights:

• Early Passion for Computing: Gates describes his and Paul Allen’s foresight in recognizing the potential of personal computing, which set Microsoft on a path to revolutionize the industry.

  Bill Gates (15:05): "We were already writing that there'd be a computer on every desk and in every home."

• Impact of Personal Tragedy: The untimely death of Kent Evans was a defining moment for Gates, leading him to deepen his collaboration with Paul Allen and intensify their efforts to build Microsoft.

  Bill Gates (12:24): "He was a great student, more diligent than I was... It was such a shock to me."

• Challenges of Replicating Success Today: Gates reflects on how today's youth face more restrictions, making the audacious moves that characterized his and Allen’s early career less feasible.

  Bill Gates (11:28): "I still think there will be unbelievable entrepreneurs, but I was lucky that Paul Allen and I saw personal computing and the role of software and almost nobody else did."

• Legacy and Responsibility: Gates touches upon his relationship with Kent and how their partnership could have shaped Microsoft differently, emphasizing the importance of mentorship and collaboration in fostering innovation.

  Bill Gates (14:20): "We would have had a partnership and done our best."

Notable Quote:

• On the realization of personal computing’s ubiquity:

  Bill Gates (15:05): "We were already writing that there'd be a computer on every desk and in every home."

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Navigating Tech and Politics

Both Hoffman and Gates intertwine their technological insights with their political perspectives, highlighting the intricate relationship between innovation and governance. Hoffman critiques the social responsibilities of tech companies and the importance of truth in the digital age, while Gates reflects on the personal and professional challenges that accompany pioneering technological advancements.

Reid Hoffman’s Political Engagement:

Hoffman underscores the necessity for the tech industry to engage constructively with the government to shape a favorable future for society, despite political disagreements.

Reid Hoffman (07:58): "My hope is the focus of the administration will be on how do we build as much strength into American society, American industry as we can versus the various claims of retribution."

Bill Gates on Leadership and Vision:

Gates emphasizes the foresight required to lead in technology, noting how young innovators like himself and Allen could envision a future that existing institutions failed to recognize.

Bill Gates (16:14): "We were like, wow, how come everybody's not their mind isn't blown? You know, when we show up and actually call the company with that computer, they were amazed."

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Conclusion

The episode of NPR's Book of the Day offers a compelling exploration of how visionary leaders like Reid Hoffman and Bill Gates perceive and influence the trajectory of technology and society. Through their books, Super Agency and Source Code, they provide valuable insights into the ongoing AI revolution and the foundational moments that shaped modern computing. Their discussions bridge the gap between technological advancement and its societal implications, urging listeners to consider both the opportunities and responsibilities that come with innovation.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• Reid Hoffman (01:56): "I think we're just at the very beginning of this really incredible, what I call the cognitive industrial revolution."
• Bill Gates (15:05): "We were already writing that there'd be a computer on every desk and in every home."

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the day. I'm Andrew Limbong. The tech world is in an interesting spot right now. The movers and shakers are all jockeying to be in the best position to take advantage of artificial intelligence. Also, they are all in some ways thinking about their relationship to President Trump. In a bit we'll hear from Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft, who has just written his own memoir, talking about his come up in the field. But first, Reid Hoffman is the co founder of LinkedIn. You know that social media website where people look for for jobs or network within their field. He wrote a book called Super Agency about how AI will help us make sense of the huge amorphous blob we call the Internet. The conversation he had with NPR's Steve Inskeep was actually recorded before all the news about the Chinese AI company Deepseek broke. But they still had a worthwhile conversation about the possibilities and dangers of artificial intelligence. That's coming up.

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[Steve Inskeep]

Reid Hoffman has been thinking about how artificial intelligence can help him think. The co founder of LinkedIn, the social network for business, has invested in AI for years. I asked him if investors have created an AI bubble over investment and he said no.

[Reid Hoffman]

If anything, we're as yet still underinvested and under rotated towards this kind of new artificial intelligence transformation.

[Steve Inskeep]

Under invested, you mean we need a few more trillion dollars thrown in this direction?

[Reid Hoffman]

We aren't at trillions yet. We are getting there. I think we're just at the very beginning of this really incredible, what I call the cognitive industrial revolution.

[Steve Inskeep]

Hoffman recorded this last week before the announcement of a cheap Chinese chatbot sent some US tech stocks sliding. In a new book called Super Agency, Hoffman asserts that AI will empower people. He says it will help, in fact already helps to sort the infinite amount of information on the Internet.

[Reid Hoffman]

And obviously some of it's very good and some of it's very bad. And so how do we navigate that? How do we figure out which things are accurate? And sometimes it's really important medical information, sometimes it's important because it's information about what's going on in the world. And sometimes it's, you know, is this going to be a good recipe or a bad recipe for dinner?

[Steve Inskeep]

The idea is that AI helps me process infinite amounts of information, but it seems to me likely also that AI is going to just keep producing more and more information. The science fiction writer Ted Chang wrote an interesting article in which he pointed out how likely it is, and I bet it already happens, that some executive is supposed to write a 50 page report. So he gives a few prompts to a large language model which generates a 50 page report which gets sent to its recipient who never reads it. He just has his chatbot boil it back down into bullet points. Like, what is the point of that even?

[Reid Hoffman]

Well, it's definitely probably happened already and going to happen more. And obviously if I'm responsible when I'm producing information, I might use an AI assistant to help produce it versus type it out all my myself, but I'll read it, refine it, make sure it's very accurate. And then you have both the long form, which is what I'm sending, and then the short form, which I might say, hey, I don't need to look at the long form. All I need to do is see the short form. Hey, I don't have time to read the book Super Agency. I'd really just like to have a three page preci. Could you please give me the three page preci.

[Steve Inskeep]

Or a short interview on npr just to give another hypothetical situation. But go on, please.

[Reid Hoffman]

Yes, exactly. But it's a feature, not a bug. What's relevant is can we find this stuff and engage with the stuff that really matters to our lives and to our work.

[Steve Inskeep]

Did AI play any role in the writing of this book?

[Reid Hoffman]

It did. We didn't have AI write the book. We double checked things. So we'd say, hey, we're writing about what the role of the printing press was or what was happening with cars or mainframes. And then we would go to AI and say, okay, how would a historian of technology think about this? What would their critical analysis would be? Is there anything we missed?

[Steve Inskeep]

So you hired a fact checker and the fact checker was a large language model.

[Reid Hoffman]

Exactly.

[Steve Inskeep]

Reid Hoffman is like a lot of tech leaders in his enthusiasm for AI. In other ways, he's walked a different path. In 2024, as Elon Musk and others supported Donald Trump, Hoffman backed Kamala Harris. He'd even bankrolled a lawsuit against Trump. And then Trump won. And Hoffman saw many of his tech peers attend the inauguration and sit on stage with the president, he opp.

[Reid Hoffman]

If I were to pick one industry that I would most want to be in dialogue with the president's office and with the American government, It's a tech industry.

[Steve Inskeep]

It sounds like you approve of these tech leaders showing up on the inaugural stage, even though you were so politically opposed to this particular president.

[Reid Hoffman]

Well, you know, in 24, I obviously made a great effort to, you know, what I think, you know, would have been an alternative choice. But part of what I think the responsibility of all citizens, of which I obviously count myself as one, is how do we build the best possible future for Americans? There's obviously gonna be things that I have deep questions about, you know, the January 6th pardons, other kinds of things. But building the technological future is, I think, really important. And so you should call out the things that I think are positive critics.

[Steve Inskeep]

Of Mark Zuckerberg, who I believe is a friend of yours, said a variety of things about Zuckerberg's about face on policy, as well as showing up in the inauguration that he flipped politically, that he bent the knee, that he's blowing with the wind, that he's going for the money. What do you make of those critiques?

[Reid Hoffman]

Well, you know, I myself have been a voice that I think social networks should, in fact, take a certain social responsibility. I think fact checking is important, which Facebook abandoned.

[Steve Inskeep]

Right, go on.

[Reid Hoffman]

Yep. And so, you know, I have a different point of view. A lot of that's reflected on LinkedIn, you know, the social network that I co founded. The key, kind of like medic, you know, question, you know, maybe pun intended here.

[Steve Inskeep]

Well done. Please proceed.

[Reid Hoffman]

Exactly what we need to get to as a society is how do we get good markers for discovering truth?

[Steve Inskeep]

Do you think Zuckerberg is blowing with the wind?

[Reid Hoffman]

I think. Let's see. I guess what I would say is he's very much trying to build a social infrastructure for the world. He believes very deeply in the freedom of speech. So I don't think he's blowing in the wind in any of those contexts, because I do think that technology companies should be responsive to their governments. Is he being responsive to that? Yes. But I think that's part of what, as a business leader, in any business, you should be doing.

[Steve Inskeep]

Why did you fall out with Elon Musk?

[Reid Hoffman]

Well, I think, unfortunately, while I really highly regard Elon's amazing accomplishments in cars and rockets and all the rest, you know, he's been, you know, basically using Twitter to kind of say a bunch of things that are kind of lies and slanders. There's no basis other than maybe competition with AI, maybe, you know, unhappiness about the fact that he made some of the wrong choices around his own involvement in OpenAI. But that's all speculation. All I see is the tweets that have, you know, kind of slanders and lies and no, no information in them.

[Steve Inskeep]

There's no personal backstory. It's just his public behavior has turned you off.

[Reid Hoffman]

Yep. Yep.

[Steve Inskeep]

Having contributed to Kamala Harris campaign, having been so outspoken, having bankrolled a lawsuit against President Trump, what are your concerns, if any, about retribution?

[Reid Hoffman]

Well, my hope is the focus of the administration will be on how do we build as much strength into American society, American industry as we can versus the various claims of retribution. I don't think it's that useful to speculate right now. We're in the administration. We will see what happens.

[Steve Inskeep]

Reid Hoffman, it's a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

[Reid Hoffman]

Likewise. Have a great day.

[Steve Inskeep]

His book is Super Agency.

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[Andrew Limbong]

Memoir, Source Code, bill Gates talks about how it was really a tragedy that led to the formation of Microsoft. He tells NPR Scott Detrow about what happened and also how he and his co founders saw something that the rest of the world just couldn't see. Oh, and just a heads up, the Gates foundation is a financial supporter of npr. Anyway, here's Scott.

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Bill Gates has written a lot of books, but they've all stuck to a few similar themes. They've mostly been about the future, technological changes coming in society, things like that. And true to his reputation in the world of computing and global health, they've all been pretty wonky. His new book is different.

[Bill Gates]

So it was only as I was turning 70 this year, Microsoft turning 50, that I decided, okay, maybe it is time to look back a little bit.

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It's a memoir called Source Code that takes Gates story from birth to the moment he realized this company he'd started with some friends, a company called Microsoft, wasn't just something to work on in between his college classes at Harvard. It describes in detail the adolescence and early Adult life of one of America's most successful and influential entrepreneurs. How Gates snuck out in the middle of the night to code at the computer lab. His middle and high school friendship with Paul Allen that led to Microsoft and the mindset they shared about computers and a brand new industry that led the two of them and their friends to outmaneuver big established business giants like IBM. Something else that Gates grapples with in the book is that the kind of kid who could do all of that was also a kid who could be really difficult for parents and teachers to figure out.

[Bill Gates]

Yeah, I mean, I blush thinking of how I could be abrasive or, you know, things like where I told my professor when he was wrong and turned out I was completely wrong. You know, I wanted to get that off my chest because I've always felt bad about it and he was very gracious when I spoke to him recently.

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The thing that I was thinking about.

[Scott Detrow]

Reading this is I'm wondering what you think about the idea, like, how much of this path to success is replicable in 2025. Because on one hand you have this industry being created around you in the moment, you're in the right place at the right time, the industry is exponentially expanding. But on the other hand, there's this level of freedom that a teenager can have to go sneak out your window and code at 2 in the morning and then to ride the bus to another city. And code sensitive infrastructure, like it feels like a Ferris Bueller movie type thing where just like clearly no teen would be able to do that today. Like, is any of this replicable these days?

[Bill Gates]

There's no doubt that kids are more subject to restrictions. Even the hiking that I did where my parents didn't know where we were, it's not how I raised children. We were a lot tighter. And there is some pushback on that because you don't mature in quite the same way. You don't get to make the same mistakes. You know, I still think there will be unbelievable entrepreneurs, but I was lucky that Paul Allen and I saw personal computing and the role of software and almost nobody else did. Even the big companies, particularly IBM, didn't see what we saw. So you always, when you have lots of companies, you have to find a flaw in their thinking and so it'd be tougher today.

[Scott Detrow]

I want to back up a little bit in the story that you tell in this book and ask you to tell us about your best friend from high school, Kent Evans.

[Bill Gates]

So when the computer shows up, there's really four of us Who a few months later are still there, obsessed. And my best friend by far, Kent Evans, who I talk to every night. He was a great student, more diligent than I was. He influenced me. He was more outward looking, really amazing person.

[Scott Detrow]

He was like showing up to school in a briefcase.

[Bill Gates]

Yeah, he had all these magazines, very serious. He followed the politics of the time when I wasn't doing that. And so he and I had always thought, okay, we're going to go off and pursue some computer related dream. And so it's when I'm a junior in high school, I'm 16, he's 17, that this mountain climbing course that it was surprising he chose to sign up for because he was even less naturally coordinated than I was. And tragically, I talked to him Friday night. He goes off, falls down the mountain over the weekend. And the headmaster calls me that Sunday and says that Kent isn't just hurt, he's died. And that was such a shock to me. My childhood was really idyllic in a lot of ways. It's the only traumatic thing and pretty hard to process because I would have partnered with him in some way. I reach out at that time to Paul and he comes back and helps me out. And that sort of gets us spending lots of time together that leads to us founding Microsoft.

[Scott Detrow]

Given that, how much time have you spent thinking about how different your life is if he doesn't die? Because you write in the book and you said here that you would have kept working him in one way or another for sure. But at the same time, that's the event that causes you to really dig in with Paul working on these programs that become the business.

[Bill Gates]

You know, when I saw Kent's father not long ago, we talked about that, you know, we probably because we were so close, would have gone to the same school. You know, Kent and I were the most action oriented of that foursome. He would have been great at helping get the business going since Paul's conceptual thinking was super necessary. But he counted on me for the more mundane parts of doing things. So it would have been different with Kent, but you know, we would have had a partnership and done our best.

[Scott Detrow]

Do you remember the moment when you and the other kids at the computer lab realized, like, okay, in the next 20 years everyone's gonna have a computer. Like, do you remember when that clicked into place, like, this is going to happen?

[Bill Gates]

Yeah. When I helped Paul get a job in Boston and he moved out my sophomore year, we were already writing that there'd be a computer on every desk and in every home. And that became sort of the founding slogan of Microsoft. Actually, we added the words running Microsoft software, which was kind of the self centered piece. And I was going to professors and saying, look, computing is going to become free because of this exponential improvement. And, you know, let's get involved in thinking that through. And people just didn't see it. That kind of surprised us. But it's what gave us the edge. You know, Paul wanted to do personal computers. I said, no, no, let's just do the software piece. And then when the first kit computer comes out, that's when I know to be on the ground floor of the revolution. We'd been waiting for that, I had to drop out.

[Scott Detrow]

Why do you think it was a bunch of kids who saw that so clearly and professors and big companies and all of the existing infrastructure didn't quite see it the same way that you did?

[Bill Gates]

Well, once you get your mindset that computers are these rare expensive things and you've been spending your time thinking about how you make them a little more efficient and a little less expensive, when somebody who's young and hasn't been around can say, wait a minute, exponential improvement, that's the chip industry off in California, intel and the computer industry, both IBM and the minicomputer companies that are mostly up in the Boston area, they're not really tracking that. I mean, Paul and I, the minute the 8080 chip was announced in 1973, Paul says to me, is this one good enough? And I said, paul, this thing is better than the most popular minicomputer, which was a $20,000 machine. And so we were like, wow, how come everybody's not their mind isn't blown? You know, when we show up and actually call the company with that computer, they were amazed.

[Scott Detrow]

Bill Gates, among many other titles, author of the new book Source Code. Thank you so much for coming in.

[Bill Gates]

Thank you.

[Andrew Limbong]

And that's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. Let us know what you think you can write to us at Book of the day. Pr.org I'm Andrew Limbong. The podcast is produced by Danica Panetta and Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our founding editor is Petra Mayer. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Adriana Gallardo, Lindsay Toddy, Elena Torick, Ed McNulty, Sarah Handel, Vincent Akovino, Samantha Balaban, Martha Ann Overland, Rena Advani, Taylor Haney, Noah Caldwell and John Ketchum. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.

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