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Andrew Limbong
Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Books about current day politics can seem very insider y. They can come off as by beltway types for Beltway types. But even if you don't care about rehashing the 2024 presidential election, there's something very human at the core of the new book, Original Sin. That's the new nonfiction book by reporters Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson looking at the alleged mental decline of then President Joe Biden and the quot cover up by those around him. And here's where it gets to the human part. There are people in this book whose loyalty gets tested who have to ask themselves, am I loyal to Joe Biden or am I loyal to the American people? Today on the pod, a special episode brought to you by our friends at the NPR Podcast, Consider a conversation between NPR Scott Detrow and the authors of the book about their reporting and the reaction from President Biden's camp. That's after the break.
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Jake Tapper
Former President Joe Biden has known Mike Donilon since 1981. He's been one of Biden's closest aides for decades. Yet a White House desk just steps away from the Oval office. Yet in 2019, on a campaign swing in Iowa, Biden struggled to remember Donilon's name. That's according to the new book original sin by CNN's Jake Tapper and Axios Alex Thompson. It's one of several jarring moments reported out in the book, which chronicles Biden's decline over his time in the White House as well as efforts by his top staff and family to keep that decline hidden from voters. Staff that included Donellan and Deputy White House Chief of staff Steve Richetti. When Thompson and Tapper dropped by our studios recently to talk about the book, Tapper said that disastrous June debate made him want to dig deeper into why Biden decided to run.
Alex Thompson
Dana Bash, my co moderator, and I had these iPads so that we could write to the people in the control room because obviously we can't talk to them. And there was only one or two commercial breaks. And I wrote, holy smokes. Like during that first rambling, awful non answer where he said, we finally beat Medicare. I just couldn't believe it. Look, I mean, we had all seen him aging. We had all seen him tripping and misspeaking. We had all seen evidence of decline. But the Biden team, family and senior advisors were telling everybody, not just media, not just the public, but also Democratic donors and members of Congress, their own cabinet. He's fine, he's fine, he's fine, he's fine.
Jake Tapper
I want to talk about the hiding as you frame it, use the word cover up in the title. That's gotten a lot of attention. It's a strong phrase to use. Tell me why you justified using that framing when it came to President Biden's inner circle and the way that they protected him.
Unnamed Source
If it wasn't a cover up, then why were so many people surprised by the debate? Mm. Beginning and fall of 2023, our reporting shows, based on the interviews with over 200 people, that there were two Bidens. There was a functioning Biden and non functioning Biden. And that goes back to, you know, 2019, but he was almost always functioning Biden. But beginning in 2023, the ratio of that functioning and non functioning starts to change dramatically. And also non functioning Biden is getting worse. And the White House, the people around them. We had one senior White House official who left because they were upset over what was happening and didn't think he should be running for reelection.
Jake Tapper
And when you say non functioning, what's the best way to define that?
Alex Thompson
I would describe it as unable to come up with the names of top advisors or close friends. I would say we, look, we're all human. We all forget names, we all lose our train of thought. We're not talking about that. And also we all witness that in people who are aging. I mean, again, I'm not talking about that. We're talking about to the point of you are not able to have a conversation, you are not able to come up with data, information, knowledge, names that you should have at the ready. When he didn't recognize George Clooney. That is somebody who is not only somebody he'd known for more than 15 years, not only somebody that he had had serious conversations about Darfur with, not only somebod that had raised millions of dollars for him and was co hosting that very fundraiser. He's also one of the most recognizable people in the world. So I'm talking about that, I'm talking about what we saw at the debate. Like that non functioning Biden. I cannot articulate a sentence. Biden.
Jake Tapper
You were talking about the framing of the COVID up though. Because it's odd though. On one hand he's the President of the United States. He's making a couple appearances of, you know, some days he didn't make that many appearances, but he's, he's, he's giving speeches, he's, he's appearing in public, he's carrying out the duties of the Presiden. And yet as you report it, there is a concerted effort to wall him off. What specifically was that circle of AIDS doing?
Unnamed Source
Yeah, I mean the one top aide who left the White House said that they intentionally shielded him from other members of the administration, other members of the cabinet, other senior White House officials. The inner circle became smaller and smaller and this White House official said that was intentional so that they did not realize the extent of the decline. You also saw the schedule become much tighter and more restricted. We have, you know, months of internal schedules that show that, you know, he would go up to the residence and have dinner at 4, 4:35. Other members of the administration also said that, you know, he just would go up to the residence very, very early and they would just wouldn't see him, you know, after a certain point of the day. And the schedule just became much more oriented about making sure that the public did not and other aides did not see non functioning Biden. And that's why, you know, the schedule became much more 10 to 4 and why, yes, he was doing those events, but they were often, you know, put in the middle of the day when, you know, those were his good hours.
Jake Tapper
Enough of the book is out that you're getting a response. I want to read you one quote that we have from Biden's camp and I want to get your response. We're still waiting for someone, anyone to point out where Joe Biden had to make a presidential decision or make a presidential address where he was unable to do his job because of mental decline. What's your response to that?
Alex Thompson
I mean, first of all, that is setting the bar really low. That's their defense of our book, that, okay, well, where's the decision making that was the wrong decision?
Jake Tapper
Well, I mean, I guess it's the key question for the President of the United States, though, right? Like, can this person make that key decision in that moment?
Alex Thompson
Look, one of his most loyal top aides said to me, if the presidency is about two things, making decisions and being able to communicate those decisions to the American people, this person said he was always good at making the decisions. He could never effectively communicate it. And it got worse and worse throughout his term. So I don't buy the idea that the president is just some Magic 8 ball. He just has to make decisions after the other and he doesn't have to do anything else. So that, to me, is just a false premise. But beyond that, the book does describe situations where US Senators are very concerned about their interactions with President Biden. I'll just give you one There is an incident in June 2024. President Biden has a meeting at the White House, an event having to deal with immigration and everybody listening. I ask you to go to Google and watch this moment. Biden has some sort of glitch while talking that neurologists told us was some sort of neurological event. They don't know what it was, but it was some sort of neurological event. It wasn't a stutter. It was something else. And Senator Bennett from Colorado, loyal Biden, supporting Democrat, leaves that immigration event at the White House thinking, well, this is why the immigration policy in this country is so messed up. This president can't manage the portfolio. So I just a, I reject the premise. But even if we're using that premise, I don't buy it. It's not true. They haven't read the book yet, and that's fine. I wouldn't read it if I were them either.
Jake Tapper
Alex, what to you was the moment that most alarmed you as a person who lives in the United States, as you were reporting and learning these details about the things that were happening behind.
Unnamed Source
The scenes, another moment that sort of was jaw dropping was I was interviewing a longtime Biden aide and they're quoted in the book as saying, I'm paraphrasing here. All he had to do was win. Then he could have disappeared for the next four years and only had to occasionally show proof of life. When you're electing a president, I think voters know that they're also electing the people around them.
Jake Tapper
And that was this was Their justification.
Unnamed Source
This was their justification for they were, they basically were acknowledging, yeah, he's, he's like having trouble, but like the threat of Donald Trump, which I think they felt very sincere about, was so great that they were justifying in some ways on democratic actions.
Alex Thompson
Yeah. And these are the same people who say, hey, nobody elected Elon Musk. Well, no one elected Donilon and Rachetti. And yet we have a Cabinet secretary telling us that Biden, Rashetti and Donilon would make decisions about the economy without even talking to Secretary Yellen during the period that they cut off the Cabinet.
Jake Tapper
You talked to a lot of anonymous sources for this book. Did anybody regret not speaking out, or was it. This is the reality I saw, but it was career suicide to say that he couldn't run for another term. So in retrospect, I wouldn't say anything if not regret.
Unnamed Source
A lot of soul searching about what could I have done differently? You know, one person sort of put to me this way was like, like, how many options were there? Like, they could have gone public. But would that have changed Joe Biden's mind? Probably not. And then it would have just helped Donald Trump.
Jake Tapper
Yeah.
Unnamed Source
Now, the one thing that I think people are mad about, that the inner circle especially didn't do, the ones that knew better, is you don't necessarily have to go public. But why not confront him? I haven't heard someone give a good answer.
Jake Tapper
And who confronted him? Secretary of State Blinken kind of confronted him.
Alex Thompson
Yes. He was just, he had the meeting with, he had a lunch with him in 2023 in which he basically was like, you know, you have to think about how old you're going to be in the second term. You know, do you think he can handle it? Of course Biden does. And that's kind of just dropped. I think everybody in that circle, in that world should be thinking, I'm certainly thinking as a journalist, what should I have done differently? Alex. And I cover this. Alex, very aggressively from the White House beat me less so. And I wish I had been more aggressive. There's a lot of regret. There's a lot of humility.
Jake Tapper
I want to end this interview the way you start the book that the morning after the election, Joe Biden woke up convinced he could have won.
Alex Thompson
He still thinks that. He still thinks he could have won. He went on the View to pre. But this book, we think, and he was asked about that and he said, well, look, I still got 7 million more votes than Donald Trump. Now he's talking about the 2020 election. And the truth of the matter is I have talked to his pollsters more than he ever has and they did not think that. And Chuck Schumer, when Chuck Schumer finally has the conversation with Biden in which he says that he thinks Biden should drop out, he says, I've talked to your pollsters. They give you a 5% chance of winning. And Biden did not know that because all the polling was interpreted through the spinmeisters around him, Donilon and Rashetti. And Biden's shocked to hear that. When I talked with one of the pollsters about that story, 5%, he said it was probably more like 1%.
Jake Tapper
That's Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. Their new book is Original President Biden's Decline, Its Cover up and his deceased Disastrous Choice to run. Again. Thanks for talking to us.
Alex Thompson
Thanks.
Andrew Limbong
And just a reminder that signing up for book of the day plus is a great way to support NPR's book coverage and public media. And you'll get to listen to every episode sponsor free. So please go find out more@plus.NPR.org BookOfTheDay.
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NPR's Book of the Day: Summary of "Original Sin" by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson
Episode Title: 'Original Sin' argues Biden aides enabled his reelection bid, despite mental decline
Release Date: May 20, 2025
Duration: Approximately 12 minutes of content
In the latest episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong presents "Original Sin," a provocative nonfiction work by reporters Jake Tapper of CNN and Alex Thompson of Axios. The book delves into allegations surrounding President Joe Biden's mental acuity during his reelection campaign and the purported efforts by his close aides to conceal any signs of cognitive decline from the public and political allies.
Jake Tapper opens the discussion by highlighting a concerning incident from the 2019 Iowa campaign swing, where President Biden struggled to recall the name of one of his long-time aides, Mike Donilon. Tapper remarks:
“In 2019, on a campaign swing in Iowa, Biden struggled to remember Donilon's name.”
[01:55]
This incident sparked Tapper’s determination to investigate the broader narrative of Biden's cognitive state and the mechanisms his team may have employed to maintain his public image.
Alex Thompson elaborates on specific instances that raised red flags about Biden's cognitive health. She differentiates normal aging-related lapses from more severe cognitive impairments:
“We're not talking about that. We're talking to the point where you are not able to have a conversation, you are not able to come up with data, information, knowledge, names that you should have at the ready.”
[04:30]
A particularly alarming example cited is Biden's failure to recognize George Clooney, a figure he had interacted with extensively, illustrating a deeper level of cognitive decline.
A significant portion of the book examines how Biden’s inner circle allegedly worked to obscure his mental struggles. An unnamed White House source explains:
“The inner circle became smaller and smaller... the schedule became much more oriented about making sure that the public did not and other aides did not see non-functioning Biden.”
[05:57]
This strategic isolation purportedly limited exposure to Biden’s cognitive lapses, maintaining a facade of competence.
When confronted with accusations of a cover-up, Biden’s team has pushed back against the book's claims. Alex Thompson addresses these defenses:
“I don't buy the idea that the president is just some Magic 8 ball... But beyond that, the book does describe situations where US Senators are very concerned about their interactions with President Biden.”
[07:15]
She underscores specific incidents, such as a June 2024 immigration event where Biden exhibited a neurological glitch, leading Senator Bennett to question his ability to manage critical policy portfolios.
The authors suggest that the concealment of Biden’s cognitive issues might have influenced his reelection bid. An unnamed source reveals:
“I was interviewing a longtime Biden aide... 'All he had to do was win. Then he could have disappeared for the next four years...'"
[09:11]
This mindset reflects a strategic desperation to secure victory amidst growing concerns about Biden’s capacity to serve effectively.
In response to critiques demanding concrete instances where Biden failed to perform presidential duties, Thompson provides counterpoints:
“The book describes situations where US Senators are very concerned... President Biden has a meeting at the White House... Biden has some sort of glitch... neurologists told us it was some sort of neurological event.”
[07:30]
She emphasizes that while overt failures may not be widely publicized, the cumulative evidence presented in the book speaks to a pattern of decline.
Both authors express a sense of regret and humility over the repercussions of their findings. Thompson reflects:
“There's a lot of regret. There's a lot of humility.”
[10:46]
She acknowledges the complex dynamics within the White House and questions whether more aggressive confrontation could have altered the course of events.
Jake Tapper wraps up the conversation by highlighting Biden's persistent belief in his electoral success despite contrary polling data:
“He still thinks he could have won. He went on the View to pre... And Biden's shocked to hear that.”
[11:46]
This reinforces the book's central thesis that misinformation and strategic spin have played pivotal roles in shaping public perception.
"Original Sin" by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson presents a compelling investigation into the alleged cognitive challenges faced by President Joe Biden and the efforts by his aides to mask these issues during his reelection campaign. Through incisive reporting and testimonies from insiders, the book raises critical questions about leadership, accountability, and the lengths to which political teams may go to sustain a public image. NPR's Book of the Day episode provides listeners with a comprehensive overview of these themes, enriched by direct quotes and firsthand accounts that underscore the gravity of the authors' claims.
Note: The podcast episode includes sponsorship segments, which have been omitted from this summary to focus solely on the substantive content.