‘Peacemaker’ and ‘Tomorrow Is Yesterday’ are personal histories of diplomacy

Summary

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NPR's Book of the Day

Episode: ‘Peacemaker’ and ‘Tomorrow Is Yesterday’ are personal histories of diplomacy

Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong

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Episode Overview

This episode features in-depth discussions about two thought-provoking books that explore the complexities and personal dimensions of international diplomacy and peacemaking:

• "Peacemaker: U Thant and the Forgotten Quest for a Just World" by Thant Mint Yu, a biography of the former UN Secretary General (1961–1971) and his pivotal role in Cold War crises.
• "Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel, Palestine" by Hussein Aga and Robert Malley, a critical examination of why the Israeli-Palestinian peace process has continually failed.

Both interviews dive into the personal experiences of the authors, the historical moments their books cover, and the enduring lessons for contemporary global conflicts.

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Segment 1: "Peacemaker: U Thant and the Forgotten Quest for a Just World"

Interview with Thant Mint Yu by Michelle Kellerman
[01:24–10:01]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Personal Connection and Early Memories

  • Thant Mint Yu recalls being three years old at the UN, meeting his grandfather, U Thant, and Apollo 11 astronauts:

    “I think I was about three years old... I remember driving to the UN and seeing the big, you know, the UN building... I think that was more exciting than anything else.”
    — Thant Mint Yu [01:45]

  • The inclusion of that photo in the book illustrates U Thant's fascination with space and the future of the UN.

• Inspirations for the Biography

  • Despite living with his grandfather, U Thant remained a “bit of a mystery” due to his early passing, motivating Yu to research and learn more as an adult.

• The Transformative Role of the UN Secretary General

  • U Thant and his predecessor pioneering the Secretary General’s role as mediator and peacemaker, which was not the original intent for the position.
  • Newly independent nations helped reshape the UN's purpose during the 1950s–1960s.
  • Much of this has been “airbrushed out of history.”

    “It’s a whole history of the late 50s, 1960s that are so pivotal… and it’s been again, sort of airbrushed out of history.”
    — Thant Mint Yu [03:52]

• U Thant’s Rapid Rise

  • From a schoolteacher in rural Burma to UN Secretary General in just over a decade, becoming the only figure acceptable to both Moscow and Washington after Dag Hammarskjöld’s death.

    “Within 10 years found himself as Burma’s new ambassador to the UN... he developed this reputation quite quickly as the man who sort of got on with everyone, both east and west, north and south.”
    — Thant Mint Yu [04:27]

• Experiences of Global South Diplomats in 1960s New York

  • Excitement and opportunities contrasted with discrimination and segregation, highlighting challenges faced by non-Western diplomats in the US.

• U Thant’s Crucial Role in the Cuban Missile Crisis

  • Contrary to his marginalization in many histories, archival evidence reveals U Thant as a quiet but pivotal mediator who created the diplomatic space for Kennedy and Khrushchev.

    “He intervenes... basically to create the space for them and the time for them to find a diplomatic solution.”
    — Thant Mint Yu [07:16]

• Lessons for Today’s UN

  • The decline of the Secretary General’s independent influence is lamented; Yu suggests reviving the model of the highly respected, neutral mediator in addressing today’s conflicts.

    “We miss this person called the UN Secretary General, who has sort of prestige, who has access to all the top leaders of the world...”
    — Thant Mint Yu [08:53]

Notable Quotes

• “He was the only person acceptable to both Moscow and Washington during the coldest years of the Cold War.”
  — Michelle Kellerman [05:34]

• “He was this neutral arbiter, this neutral figure that was essential to both sides in climbing down from what was then the very edge of a possible nuclear catastrophe.”
  — Thant Mint Yu [08:20]

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Segment 2: "Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel, Palestine"

Discussion with Hussein Aga & Robert Malley, interviewed by Scott Simon
[11:03–20:28]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Reflections on the Hope of 1993

  • The episode recalls the optimism surrounding the signing of the Oslo Accords.
  • Scott Simon sets the tone:

    “Everyone on all sides had lost someone. People said they just wanted peace, to get on with their lives... There was hope. 32 years later, what happened?”
    — Scott Simon [11:24]

• Core Reasons for Peace Process Failure

  • Malley asserts that the process was fundamentally flawed:

    "It was premised on a complete dissonance between what Israelis were looking for and what Palestinians were looking for.”
    — Robert Malley [12:20]

  • Palestinians wanted justice and redress for 1948; Israelis wanted absolute security—“those things were not the same.”

  • For decades, negotiations missed core emotional and historical realities for both peoples.

  • Hussein Aga is more blunt:

    “For me, the peace process from day one was a fake process… laden with all kind of forces that are not amenable to success.”
    — Hussein Aga [13:10]

• The Role (and Failure) of U.S. Mediation

  • Both authors critique the US:
    • The US never exercised enough pressure on either side.
    • American mediation was “subordinate to other objectives.”

    “...One of the diagnoses that we come out with in the book is that pursuit of Israeli Palestinian peace was subordinate to other objectives that the US was pursuing.”
    — Robert Malley [14:44]

  • The US saw the conflict as technical, not emotional or historical.

    “It was not about that. The importance of history, the emotions, the feelings, the aspirations, the yearnings, they were never factored in.”
    — Hussein Aga [15:01]

• Entrenchment and the Current Reality

  • Discussion shifts to the ongoing conflict and the October 7 attack:

    "What Hamas has done is really more representative of what the Palestinians feel deep inside... Things are not very precise."
    — Hussein Aga [15:58]

  • Israeli society, across opposition and government, widely supports the war in Gaza.
  • Malley again underscores the consensus for war on both sides, and lack of significant protest:

    “This is not Netanyahu’s war, this is Israel’s.”
    — Robert Malley [17:24]

  • On the Palestinian side, little moral condemnation of Hamas; criticism focuses on the disastrous consequences of their actions, not the actions themselves.

• Is Peace Possible?

  • Hussein Aga remains cautiously hopeful, but insists fundamental rethinking is necessary:

    "Oh, the possibility of them being able to live in peace together is there. But you have to... start by knowing what the conflict is, by defining it and identifying it properly..."
    — Hussein Aga [18:54]

  • Malley frames the book as a provocation to “shake things up” and challenge stale assumptions:

    “...hopefully people who read the book … won’t keep their head in the sand and continue trying what has been done for so long and led to the disaster we’re in today.”
    — Robert Malley [19:31]

Notable Quotes

• “The process was not well thought out... The importance of history, the emotions, the feelings, the aspirations, the yearnings, they were never factored in...”
  — Hussein Aga [15:01]

• “So as we say in the book, this is not Netanyahu’s war, this is Israel’s.”
  — Robert Malley [17:24]

• “Oh, the possibility... is there. But you have to have a way of trying to address the conflict by starting by knowing what the conflict is... As long as it’s not the case, we'll be doing the same things over and over and over.”
  — Hussein Aga [18:54]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes by Timestamp

• [01:45] — Thant Mint Yu recounts his first memory of the UN and his grandfather.
• [04:27] — The extraordinary rise of U Thant from a small town schoolteacher to Secretary General.
• [07:16] — Detailing U Thant’s critical mediation in the Cuban Missile Crisis.
• [11:24] — Scott Simon’s snapshot of hope in 1993, and what has changed since.
• [12:20] — Malley on the inherent dissonance in peace process assumptions.
• [13:10] — Aga dismisses the peace process as fundamentally ill-fated.
• [14:44] — Malley’s critique that US mediation has always been compromised by other priorities.
• [17:24] — Malley on the broad consensus for the Gaza war in Israel, and the lack of moral reckoning on both sides.
• [18:54] — Aga on the possibility of peace, and the essential need to redefine the problem.

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Conclusion

This episode provides remarkable personal and historical insights into high-stakes diplomacy and the ongoing struggle for peace. Listeners are offered a nuanced understanding of how personalities, misperceptions, and unaddressed grievances shape the world’s most difficult conflicts—and what might need to change for real peace to take root.

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Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Peace in the world is hard, maybe even impossible, but that doesn't mean you don't try. Today we've got two books detailing different attempts for peace in the world. In a bit, we'll hear about the history of the 1993 agreement that was supposed to end the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. Supposed to. But first, U thanks. Was the secretary general of the United nations from 1961 to 1971, which means he had to deal with the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War crises in Congo, Yemen, Cyprus and more. There's a new biography about him written by his grandson Thont Mint Yu, titled U Thant and the Forgotten Quest for a Just World. And he spoke with NPR's Michelle Kellerman, who covers diplomacy, about what made his grandfather such a one of a kind figure. That's coming up.

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[Michelle Kellerman]

So before we talk about the book, I want to ask you about a picture that you include in it. It's you, a child, your grandfather, the secretary general, is posing along with Apollo 11 astronauts. And I wonder, do you remember that day or do you have, you know, why did you include that in this?

[Thant Mint Yu]

It's actually one of the very earliest memories that I have. I think I was about three years old. So I remember not so much the astronauts themselves, but I remember driving to the UN and seeing the big, you know, the UN building going up to the 38th floor, seeing my grandfather there because it wasn't it was a fairly unusual thing to do to go see him in the office. So I do remember that day and I remember that huge map that you see in the photograph behind which used to light up. And I think that was for my three year old self. I think that was more exciting than anything else. I included that because Faruthant, the astronauts, the cosmonauts, space exploration, all those things were of extreme interest to him and I think really influenced how he thought about his role in the future of the UN as well.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Are there other personal memories that kind of inspired you to look more deeply into your grandfather's History, he was a.

[Thant Mint Yu]

Bit of a mystery because he died when I was 8. We lived with him until he passed away in 1974. And so I remember him, but he was always this kind of. It was always a very fuzzy memory. And as I grew older and I worked for the UN myself, I didn't know that much about him as a person in terms of what he did. I knew the outlines of his career, but I was always a little bit curious. But I never had time to research it until just a few years ago.

[Michelle Kellerman]

And in telling U thant's story, what do you want readers to learn about the United Nation? It was kind of a necessary institution then and why it may still be.

[Thant Mint Yu]

I think when it was founded, it was meant to be this enforcement mechanism. The wartime allies, the us, the ussr, sort of controlling the peace and policing the world afterwards. And it never worked out that way. But what we saw from the mid-1950s onwards was that the Secretary General of the UN, Dag Hammarskjold, before my grandfather and then U Thant, really pioneered this whole role for the Secretary General as a mediator, as a peacemaker, as a peacekeeper. And a lot of that history has been kind of brushed aside or sort of forgotten. And in looking at the archives, which have been declassified, digitized only fairly recently, I sort of understood much better both the role of the secretary generals, including my grandfather, in de escalating key conflicts like the Cuban Missile Crisis, but also the role of the newly decolonized countries like India, Burma, Ghana, many countries in Africa, Indonesia, in really shaping the UN in a very new direction. It's a whole history of the late 50s, 1960s that are so pivotal, I think, to global history. And it's been again, sort of airbrushed out of history.

[Michelle Kellerman]

I want to talk a little bit about that in a bit. But first talk a little bit about your grandfather. How he went from being a schoolteacher in Burma to this cigar smoking diplomat at the center of global affairs.

[Thant Mint Yu]

Yeah, it's an extraordinary story because he was, you know, at 39, he was a school teacher, school headmaster of a little wooden school in this tiny town in a backwater in Burma. And he thought he wanted a midlife career change. And at 39 he went to Rangoon, joined the government, rose up through its ranks. It had just become an independent country from, from the British empire and within 10 years found himself as Burma's new ambassador to the UN. He was living in midtown Manhattan and he was at the very center of this new global politics. And he developed this reputation quite quickly as the man who sort of got on with everyone, both east and west, north and south. He took on the French on the war in Algeria, but still got along with the French, for example. And so when Dyke Hammerskjold, who was the Secretary General at the time, was killed in this mysterious, still mysterious plane crash, he emerged as the only human being in the world acceptable to both Moscow and Washington to become the acting Secretary General on probation for a year. And that's how he got the job just 13 years or so after leaving that small town.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Yeah, I mean, you write that he was the only person acceptable to both Moscow and Washington during the coldest years of the Cold War. I was also kind of fascinated to read about New York City at the time and why it was decided to put the UN there. So tell us a little bit about what it was like for U thant and other diplomats from what we now call the global South.

[Thant Mint Yu]

Yeah, I think on the one hand it was incredibly exciting. I mean, America was by far the richest, as well as most powerful country in the world. New York was at the center of the world. So it was an exciting time. And I think he and my mother, for instance, his daughter who came with him, were in many ways very happy to be in New York and very pleased with their lives there. At the same time, they faced a lot of discrimination, as did many of the diplomats who came into New York from. From Asia and especially from. From Africa at the time, especially with housing, but also on, you know, occasionally on a. On a day to day basis as well. So it was this mix. It was both kind of being pulled into this world of, of Upper east side diplomatic functions and receptions at the UN and, you know, the limousines and the big meetings with. With leaders from around the world, but also being part of a. Still in many ways a segregated society, especially when they went outside of New York City itself.

[Michelle Kellerman]

So let's talk about the role that Udan played in the Cuban Missile Crisis. What surprised you as you were researching that?

[Thant Mint Yu]

I suppose just that he had a role at all. I mean, if you read a lot of the secondary literature, which is what I've read, you know, since I was a student in the 1980s, he had a very marginal role at best. Sometimes he's not included at all. But it's very clear from the archive and also just from reading New York Times and other newspapers at the time, when he was on the front page almost every day, that he played this really pivotal role. So he was the one, you know, President Kennedy goes on television, gives his speech on 22 October. It becomes this very public crisis. He spends the next day nearly 24 hours in deep consultation with what we call then third world leaders from around the world. And then he intervenes. He intervenes as a Security Council. He sets out the actual framework that would become the framework for settlement. He then intervenes with both Kennedy and Khrushchev directly through a series of both public as well as private messages, basically to create the space for them and the time for them to find a diplomatic solution. He engages with both sides in trying to find the right formula for the verification of the missile withdrawal. And then he goes to Havana and basically kind of tries to diffuse Fidel Castro's temperature and make sure that he wasn't going to be a problem at a time when Khrushchev and Kennedy were nearing an agreement. So, you know, I think the thing is that he was this neutral arbiter, this neutral figure that was essential to both sides in climbing down from what was then the very edge of a possible nuclear catastrophe.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Udant was Secretary General also during the 1967 Arab Israeli War, the Vietnam War. I mean, there were obviously limits to what he could do, but as you said, he played this key role in the Cuban Missile Crisis. And I wonder if you think there are lessons in any of that for what a Secretary General could do today.

[Thant Mint Yu]

Yeah, because I think we miss this person called the UN Secretary General, who has sort of prestige, who has access to all the top leaders of the world and who can be this neutral, impartial point of reference. And, and we don't really know that we miss it, because I think people have forgotten what it was like in the 50s and 60s when that person was there as an instrument for de escalation, for the diffusion of tensions, and maybe even for the settlement of specific disputes as well. And I think when we look around the world today and we see a world at war in so many different places, in Ukraine, in the Middle east and Sudan and elsewhere, again, I think we should look back on that time and remember that the UN's key function, key reason for it being set up was to prevent an end war. And that there used to be this person called the UN Secretary General that was counted on and turned to, to play a decisive role in ending these wars.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Thank you very much for your time. Thanh Mint Yu is the author of the book Peacemaker, you, Thanh and the Forgotten Quest for a Just World.

[Thant Mint Yu]

Thank you.

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[Andrew Limbong]

The book Tomorrow is Life, Death and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel, Palestine is a look at failure at why attempts at peace in the Middle east have been so elusive. The writers Hussein Aga and Robert Malley spoke with npr. Scott Simon about the lessons we can take from past failures today.

[Scott Simon]

On this day, September 13th in 1993, Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin shook hands at the White House and signed a framework for peace between Palestinians and Israel. I was in Jerusalem at the time. Everyone on all sides had lost someone. People said they just wanted peace, to get on with their lives, free from terrorism, occupation and hatred. There was hope. 32 years later, what happened? Hussein Naga and Robert Malley have both been a part of negotiations to end the conflict. Hussein Naga on behalf of Palestinians, Robert Malley, for the US Under Presidents Clinton, Obama and Biden, they've written a sharp and unsentimental new book, Tomorrow is Life, Death and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel, Palestine. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.

[Robert Malley]

Thank you.

[Hussein Aga]

Thank you.

[Scott Simon]

Why did the peace process fail?

[Robert Malley]

Well, you know why it failed. That could take us several hours. But I think at bottom it was premised on false assumptions. It was premised on a complete dissonance between what Israelis were looking for and what Palestinians were looking for. What Palestinians wanted. They wanted justice. They wanted a sense of redress. They wanted something to undo the catastrophe of 1948, when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians lost their land. And what Israelis wanted was absolute security, absolute normalcy. And those things were not the same. And so forth decades, people were working on a map and seeing whether you could divide the west bank, whether you could divide Jerusalem, whether you could find a way to reconcile the two. But they were not even talking the language that most Israelis and most Palestinians held dear.

[Hussein Aga]

Mr. Aka for me, the peace process from day one was a fake process and could not have succeeded. It was a combination of illusions, delusions, lies, noise, missteps, misreadings. It was laden with all kind of forces that are not amenable to success.

[Scott Simon]

You assign plenty of blame, but you especially believe that the US has not been a good mediator over the years. Let me get you both to respond to that, if possible.

[Robert Malley]

Okay, maybe I'll start. This is a conflict that is between Israelis, Palestinians. It's not a conflict that involves the us but neither one of them was really willing to make the compromises that were necessary to get the outcome. A two state solution that the US said it was seeking to achieve. So if you wanted to achieve in that pursuit, the US needed to have a firm hand so that both sides understood the consequences of going in one direction, the consequences of going in another. But at bottom, the US spoke one language, but didn't really put its effort where it said it wanted to go. And so you have this really pretty paradoxical situation of the most powerful nation on earth. Certainly that was the case in 1993, after the Cold War. It was the sole superpower. Several presidents said that achieving Israeli Palestine peace was their priority, and yet they acted as if it was one of a series of concerns. They never put the weight into it that a superpower that claims that it is one of its main objectives would have put. And we could discuss what it is, but one of the diagnoses that we come out with in the book is that pursuit of Israeli Palestinian peace was subordinate to other objectives that the US was pursuing.

[Hussein Aga]

I think from the beginning, the process was not well thought out, because if you want to resolve a problem, you have to look and properly identify and define the core of that conflict. And I think the Americans never did that. They thought simply it was a material thing of dividing, partitioning the land between the two communities, and then everything would be okay. It was not about that. The importance of history, the emotions, the feelings, the aspirations, the yearnings, they were never factored in. What was really exclusively looked at was very technical, and this is not a technical conflict.

[Scott Simon]

Are both Hamas and the current government in Israel, for their own reasons, just as satisfied to continue with the current state of affairs and continuing losses?

[Hussein Aga]

I tell you one thing about the current confrontation is that it crystallizes the true nature of the conflict. What Hamas has done is really more representative of what the Palestinians feel deep inside. Sorry to use terms that are not really very precise, but that's the nature of things. Things are not very precise.

[Scott Simon]

You mean the October 7th attack that killed innocent people?

[Hussein Aga]

The October 7th attack and then the war in Gaza was really a culmination of the feelings of the Israelis towards how to deal with the Palestinian threat and to how to get their security guaranteed, while at the same time it did not have any political horizon. It was the kind of confrontation that diplomats could not resolve. Both sides were very determined on one thing, which was revenge.

[Robert Malley]

You know, if you just look at sort of the reaction in Israel to the war, and, you know, I always hear people saying, well, this is Bibi and it's his government and he's perpetrating this war because he wants to escape his legal problems. All of that may be part of the picture, but look at the state of Israeli public opinion. Look at the polls, look at the demonstrations. Do you see demonstrations, vast demonstrations against what's happening in Gaza, which increasing number of experts are calling a genocide. Do you see people up in arms?

[Scott Simon]

I mean, I believe you do.

[Robert Malley]

No, what you see is people demonstrating because they want the hostages back. But the support for the campaign for the Decimation of Gaza, that has been a consensus in Israel, including among members of the opposition, that people like to point to as possible alternatives. So as we say in the book, this is not Netanyahu's war, this is Israel's. And on the Palestinian side, again, you didn't see large demonstrations against what hamas did on October 7. To the extent there was criticism, and it's been more with time, it's criticism because they say, look at the consequence, not sort of on a moral plane, it was wrong because for many Palestinians, Israelis got their comeuppance. After decades of dispossession, of displacement, of Gaza living like an open cage prison, the captives finally could take their revenge on their captors. So this doesn't sound. It sounds very unpleasant to say, but it is true that if you look at how Israelis reacted to the war, if you look at how Palestinians reacted, there is far more consensus than people believe when they say, well, we need to find moderate Israelis and moderate Palestinians need to understand how deeply the feelings went on both sides. I'm not saying to applaud it, but to say, if that's the state of how both sides feel, it means that something has gone terribly wrong. In the 32 years that you mentioned.

[Scott Simon]

Is there any hope, do you see any possibility for two people living together in peace, if not happiness?

[Hussein Aga]

Oh, the possibility of them being able to live in peace together is there. But you have to have a way of trying to address the conflict by starting by knowing what the conflict is, by defining it and identifying it properly to be able to deal with it. And this has not been the case. And as long as it's not the case, we'll be doing the same things over and over and over. And by the way, there is no accountability for the people who are doing the same thing over and over and over. And nothing happens.

[Robert Malley]

Listen, I'd answer this, why did Hussein and I choose to write this book? Partly it's because we saw that so many people were saying, oh, it's happened October 7th and everything that's an aberration, that's an anomaly. How did it happen after this peace process? Whereas we argue it is a consequence of everything that preceded it and is in line with with so much that preceded. And we wrote the book to sort of shake things up and try to question some assumptions. And hopefully people who read the book, people who are going to think about this issue will come up with the prescription and better ideas, but at a minimum, they won't keep their head in the sand and continue trying what has been done for so long and led to the disaster we're in today. So there's a lot I think we try to put on the table so that we rethink this conflict anew because the way it's been thought of in the past has led us to the impasse we're in today.

[Scott Simon]

Robert Malley and Hussein Aga, their new book, tomorrow is Yesterday. Gentlemen, thanks so much.

[Robert Malley]

Thank you.

[Hussein Aga]

Thank you, sir.

[Andrew Limbong]

That's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. If you want more, you can sign up for our [e-mail] Newsletter Books I'm Andrew Limbong. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our founding editor is Petra Mayer. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Tyler Bartlam, Jenette Woods, Jacob Fenston, Martin Patience, Mia Venkat, Ashley Brown, Shannon Rhodes, Dave Misich, Janiyah Williams and Todd Munt. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.

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