Reflecting on 30 years of 'The Golden Compass' with Sir Philip Pullman

Summary

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Reflecting on 30 Years of 'The Golden Compass' with Sir Philip Pullman

NPR’s Book of the Day | Host: Alyssa Nadworny | Guest: Sir Philip Pullman (Interviewed by Indira Lakshmanan)
Date: May 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode marks the 30th anniversary of The Golden Compass' U.S. publication. NPR’s Indira Lakshmanan sits down with Sir Philip Pullman, author of the His Dark Materials and Book of Dust trilogies, to reflect on the origins, evolution, and lasting impact of his iconic fantasy world. The conversation delves into how Pullman developed his heroine Lyra, the philosophical underpinnings of daemons and Dust, and his nuanced views on religion, the soul, and consciousness. The discussion also touches on Lyra’s maturity across the series and speculates on the unresolved questions Pullman may yet return to explore.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of Lyra and Her World

• How Lyra Came to Be
  • Pullman describes her appearance as spontaneous and almost serendipitous.
    “I don’t know how I came to Lyra or she came to me... there she was, demanding to have her story told.”
    — Philip Pullman, 03:17
• Pullman aimed to write a long, fantastical story, though he confides:
  “I suppose you have to call it fantasy, though I don’t like that word very much.”
  — 03:19

The Concept of Daemons

• Origin and Utility in Storytelling
  • The idea evolved naturally as Pullman considered how to make the opening scene—Lyra eavesdropping—more interesting by giving her an interlocutor who wasn’t a separate person.
  • “Supposing if she had someone to talk to that was like a guardian angel or like a little spirit animal or something like that... it was all much more dramatic and easy to write.”
    — Philip Pullman, 04:19
• Philosophical Depth and Greek Roots
  • Pullman used the Greek word “daimon,” a guiding spirit, allowing the concept to expand:
  • “The demon idea was a very rich one, which I could use in all sorts of different ways. I was still discovering new ways at the end of the final trilogy.”
    — Philip Pullman, 05:13
  • Daemons express personality traits and inner conflict, symbolizing the evolving self from childhood to adulthood.

The Meaning of Dust

• Symbolism: Innocence, Experience, and Knowledge
  • Dust is a stand-in for consciousness—an amalgam of curiosity, creativity, and love—viewed as dangerous by the ruling Magisterium but necessary for life.
  • Pullman references William Blake’s “contrary states of the human soul” (innocence and experience):
    “We begin by being innocent, and then later on, as we grow up, gradually we lose that innocence, but we become experienced.”
    — Philip Pullman, 06:36
• The settling of daemons during adolescence is emblematic of this lost innocence and the acquisition of personal identity.

Religion, Power, and the Soul

• Pullman’s Views on Organized Religion
  • As an atheist, Pullman criticizes the combination of religion and power, not personal belief itself:
    “The real difficulty comes when religion meets power or acquires power, political power, because once you’re doing something in the name of God, you can do anything you like and no one can argue with you.”
    — Philip Pullman, 08:27
• Complexity of the Soul in Fiction
  • Although Pullman rejects organized religion, he explores the soul deeply via daemons, allowing readers to contemplate spirituality outside dogma.

Lyra’s Growth & The Book of Dust

• Evolving Characterization
  • In The Book of Dust trilogy, Lyra is reintroduced as a wounded adult, struggling with internal conflicts and separation from her daemon Pantalaimon:
    “Lyra had to have another adventure... What I hadn’t looked at closely in the first trilogy was ... what part the imagination plays in it.”
    — Philip Pullman, 09:30
• Imagination as Central Theme
  • Pantalaimon accuses Lyra of having lost her imagination, prompting a literal and metaphorical quest:
    “She does in the end find her imagination and finds that that’s what Dust was all the time.”
    — Philip Pullman, 10:29

Unresolved Questions & Future Possibilities

• Consciousness and Panpsychism
  • Indira raises the theme of universal consciousness—panpsychism—within Pullman’s books. Pullman admits:
    “When I started writing this story about Lyra, I hadn’t come across that notion, the panpsychist one you mentioned. What was fascinating me at the very beginning was the notion of dark matter... I want to come back to the question of consciousness and what consciousness is and whether everything is conscious. It is a fascinating question, and it’s not settled yet. You’re quite right. More story to go.”
    — Philip Pullman, 11:54–12:32
  • The possibility of a future Lyra story remains open.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Daemons’ Narrative Purpose:
  “I called it a demon because of the Greek word that you just used just now. Daimon, in Lyra’s world, everybody has a demon with them, and they can talk to it and other people can see it and so on. And that actually turned out to be a very good idea, because all sorts of things could develop from that.”
  — Philip Pullman, 04:42

• On Loss, Imagination, and Dust:
  “He [Pantalaimon] gets very impatient with her and says, you’ve lost your imagination. You used to have an imagination and now it’s gone. Well, I’m gonna look for it... And so Lyra ... does in the end find her imagination and finds that that’s what Dust was all the time.”
  — Philip Pullman, 09:46 & 10:29

• On Religion and Power:
  “What troubles me about religion is not what people believe, but what they do to gain power over other people.”
  — Philip Pullman, 08:27

• On Continue the Journey:
  “You are, in fact, telling me that we need another Lyra book.”
  — Philip Pullman, 11:27

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Intro & Setup: 00:02 – 01:53
• Lyra’s Origins & Daemons: 03:17 – 05:50
• Dust, Innocence & Experience: 05:50 – 07:51
• Religion, Power, and the Soul: 07:51 – 08:47
• The Book of Dust & Lyra’s Maturity: 08:47 – 11:27
• Consciousness, Panpsychism & Future Stories: 11:27 – 12:33

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Final Thoughts

This intimate and philosophical conversation between Indira Lakshmanan and Sir Philip Pullman offers both long-time fans and newcomers a lens into the enduring richness of The Golden Compass and its sequels. Pullman’s honesty, curiosity, and wit shine as he discusses the untidiness of inspiration, the complexity of growing up, and the mysteries of the universe that keep both storytellers and readers searching for more.

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Transcript

[Alyssa Nadworny]

Hi, I'm Alyssa Nadworny and you're listening to Book of the Day. Imagine there's a young girl in a parallel universe who is on a quest to find a missing friend. There are talking animal friends that accompany her. There's an evil plot that she must thwart, an epic coming of age story challenging authority and the status quo. If this sounds like the Golden Compass, well, that's because it is. It is one of the greatest fantasy books of all time. And Sir Philip Pullman, the author behind it all, spoke with Here now host Indira Lakshmanan.

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[Indira Lakshmanan]

this month marks 30 years since the arrival on U.S. shores of the Golden Compass, an award winning British fantasy classic that's been published in dozens of countries with millions of copies sold. Philip Pullman's story is about Lyra, a precocious, rebellious, pre adolescent girl whose ruthless and powerful parents abandoned her to be raised as an orphan inside an Oxford University college. She lives in a parallel universe similar to our own, but populated by armored bears, angels and witch touches. It's dominated by a corrupt all powerful religious organization known as the Magisterium and a mysterious substance called Dust that's essential to human life, but which the Magisterium fears and wants to control. Every human being is born with a lifelong animal companion known as a Demon, who's their closest confidant and alter ego. Lyra's journey to find a kidnapped friend and uncover a dark experiment to sever children from their animal companions spawned two trilogies called His Dark Materials and the Book of Dust, a movie and an HBO series that have captivated millions of readers of all ages. I'm one of those people. So it was my very great pleasure recently to welcome Sir Philip Pullman to Here and Now. I began by asking him where the idea for his heroine, Lyra, came from.

[Philip Pullman]

I don't know how I came to Lyra or she came to me. I knew the sort of story I wanted to write, which is a long sort of. I suppose you have to call it fantasy, though I don't like that word very much. And there she was, demanding to have her story told.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

I think that a favorite of readers in your books is that every human in Lyra's world has a demon, arguably a physical and visible manifestation of their soul. In the first book, the Golden Compass, we learn that a human and their demon cannot be separated without great harm. So I want to ask first about the Greek etymology of the word demon, which I looked up last night. And it seems to come from. From a meaning that it is a lesser God or a guiding spirit, much like Socrates had this guiding voice. So I want to ask, how did you come up with that concept? And again, the notion that we and this guiding spirit can't be separated, well,

[Philip Pullman]

that wasn't part of the story originally. I found myself with this little girl in this ancient Oxford college. She's going to part of the college where she's not supposed to be, and she overhears something she's not supposed to overhear. Now, the question for the storyteller is, how do we make that interesting? And the most obvious way you can make something is by having somebody else there that she can talk to. But having a real person there would confuse it because it's about her. The story's Lyra's story, not anybody else's. And then I thought, well, supposing if she had someone to talk to that was like a guardian angel or like a little spirit animal or something like that. And then she can say, let's go in here. And he can say, no, we're not supposed to. And she can say, oh, don't be such a coward. He can say, listen, they're coming. Be quiet. And it was all much more dramatic and easy to write. I called it a demon because of the Greek word that you just used just now. Daimon, in Lyra's world, everybody has a demon with them, and they can talk to it and other people can see it and so on. And that actually turned out to be a very good idea, because all sorts of things could develop from that. For example, as we find out in one of the later books, what happens if your demon disappears? What happens if he just leaves? And if your demon becomes ill, does that mean you become ill? Or if you don't like your demon, what happens then? You live a life of. It's very unhappy because you're quarreling with yourself all the time. So the demon idea was a very rich one, which I could use in all sorts of different ways. I was still discovering new ways at the end of the final trilogy. Mm.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

Well, there's another aspect of the book which I just love, and it's the concept of Dust. It's something that the powerful and corrupt leaders of this Magisterium church consider evil. And yet it's also portrayed as a necessary substance for life, something like consciousness. Now, for me, as I read these books, it came across as an amalgam of curiosity, human creativity, the maturity that we gain through knowledge and. And through love. That is all something that this Magisterium is trying to keep away from the people. What were the concepts that you were playing with here? You know, it struck me as innocence and original sin versus knowledge and consciousness.

[Philip Pullman]

You're absolutely right. It has to do with the old ideas of innocence and experience. That's the terms that William Blake, the great poet and painter, used for the two contrary states of the human soul. As he put it, we begin by being innocent, and then later on, as we grow up, gradually we lose that innocence, but we become experienced. This is a very old idea which I was playing with, and it seemed to me I could symbolize this by the demon. It's another way in which the demon was very useful, because when you're a child in Lyra's world, your demon can change shape. It can be a moth one minute, a snake the next, a dog, a cat, a cow, anything. But when you go through puberty, you leave that innocence behind and your demon settles down into one fixed shape which will have for the rest of your life. So the demon exists to tell you something about yourself. If your demon is a snake, for example, it doesn't mean you'll be evil or poisonous or anything like that. What it means is there'll be something serpentine about your nature. You won't be big and blundering aloud and obvious. You'll Be subtle and quiet. So that's another aspect of the demon which I was able to use and discover as I went through.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

You yourself are an avowed atheist, and yet you've created this world that is so ruled by religion. The Magisterium feels like the Catholic Church, but even more so, more powerful and very deeply evil. And yet at the same time, the. The demons were truly a way of understanding the soul. So explain to us, what are your feelings or thoughts on religion, given that you seem to be anti organized religion and yet you seem to believe in a soul.

[Philip Pullman]

What troubles me about religion is not what people believe, but what they do to gain power over other people. The real difficulty comes when religion meets power or acquires power, political power, because once you're doing something in the name of God, you can do anything you like and no one can argue with you.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

In your second trilogy, the Book of Dust, particularly in the last two books,

including the Rose Field, which just published

in the fall, the Lyra we came to know in the first books is really a quite deeply wounded character. She's separated from Pantalyman, her beloved demon, and has to go through a really difficult hero's journey. I sort of feel like the first, if the first trilogy is kind of a buildings Roman, the second trilogy is her struggling with herself and what her

beliefs are as an adult.

What got you to this place of showing us a damaged beloved character?

[Philip Pullman]

Yes. Well, in the first trilogy, Lyra has this extraordinary adventure and then she goes back home to Oxford. Well, what then? Life would be very dull if you'd been through that adventure and then had to go back to her normal school life. So Lyra had to have another adventure, it seemed to me. And what I hadn't looked at closely in the first trilogy was the whole business of what Dust is and what part the imagination plays in it. And I found that I could explore this question by having Lyra and Pantalimon disagree and argue. And he gets very impatient with her and says, you've lost your imagination. You used to have an imagination and now it's gone. Well, I'm gonna look for it. And he sets off, he leaves her and he says he's gone to look for her imagination. She doesn't know what this means, and how do you find an imagination? And she sets off to follow him. And so Lyra, eventually I won't. I'll sort of spoil the story now by telling you that Lyra does in the end find her imagination and finds that that's what Dust was all the time.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

You know, at the end of the Rose field, we feel that Lyra has solved the mystery. A bit of the imagination, although you haven't necessarily settled a question that I would say hangs over both of the trilogies, and that's the question of consciousness and who or what is affected by it. What came through a bit to me was this notion of panpsychism and the idea that everything, maybe every particle or at least every living particle, has some bit of consciousness in it. Is this something that, you know, since you haven't fully settled this question, are you done with Lyra, or might you be taking us back again to visit that world and resolve some of these questions about consciousness and being?

[Philip Pullman]

Well, maybe you're right. Maybe there are some things that need settling, some things that I need to find out for myself. You are, in fact, telling me that we need another Lyra book.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

Well, if I'm the one who's. Who's inspiring you to do it, I will take that as a compliment, and I hope that you will do it, because I want to know more about whether everything is conscious and how, you know, this relates.

[Philip Pullman]

And when I, when I started writing this story about Lyra, I hadn't come across that notion, the panpsychist one you mentioned. What was fascinating me at the very beginning was the notion of dark matter, the missing matter in the universe that makes gravitation happen the way it does. And I was hoping that scientists did not discover what dark matter was before I finished the book. Anyway, we seem to have gone past that now and still not discovered what dark matter was. And I want to come back to the question of consciousness and what consciousness is and whether everything is conscious. It is a fascinating question, and it's not settled yet. You're quite right. More story to go.

[Indira Lakshmanan]

Sir Philip Pullman, the author of two interconnected trilogies, his Dark Materials and the Book of Dust, which just completed a few months ago, but maybe we're convincing him to write another one. The Golden Compass, the first of the six books, was published in the US 30 years ago this month. Philip Pullman, thank you so much for joining us.

[Philip Pullman]

Thank you, Indira. It's been a pleasure to talk to you.

[Alyssa Nadworny]

And just a quick reminder that signing up for for Book of the Day plus is a great way to support NPR's book coverage and public media. And you'll get to listen to every episode sponsor free. So please go find out [e-mail] BookOfTheDay.

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