'Small Things Like These' draws from the true story of Ireland's Magdalene Laundries

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: 'Small Things Like These' by Claire Keegan – Detailed Summary

Introduction

In the January 8, 2025 episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong engages in an insightful conversation with acclaimed Irish author Claire Keegan about her richly layered novella, Small Things Like These. This episode delves into the inspirations behind the book, its thematic depth, and Keegan's meticulous writing process, offering listeners an in-depth understanding of why this work has resonated so profoundly with audiences worldwide.

Discussion of 'Small Things Like These'

Claire Keegan's Small Things Like These has garnered significant accolades since its publication in 2021, including a Booker Prize nomination and selection for Oprah's latest book club. The novella has also been adapted into a film starring Oscar-winning actor Cillian Murphy, released in the fall of 2024.

Small Things Like These draws inspiration from the true and harrowing history of Ireland's Magdalene Laundries—institutions run by the Catholic Church where tens of thousands of women were forced into unpaid labor. The story centers on Bill Furlong, a coal merchant in a small Irish town during the Christmas season, who stumbles upon a disturbing secret within a local convent.

Themes and Resonance

The book's emotional depth and historical context have struck a chord with readers globally. Keegan discusses the contemporary relevance of her story, pondering its widespread resonance:

Claire Keegan (02:21): "I don't really know. I mean, I don't think anybody is able to measure why some books are successful and others aren't. But I do think that people probably are inclined towards my works because they're not long winded and they do seem to move people Emotionally, I think this book hit a nerve."

Keegan emphasizes that her intent was not to merely recount the cruelty and exploitation inherent in the Magdalene Laundries but to explore themes of hope and courage. She positions the narrative around Bill Furlong’s personal struggles and moral dilemmas, rather than solely focusing on the institutional atrocities.

The discussion extends to the societal silence surrounding the laundries:

Claire Keegan (04:10): "I was really interested in why people did and said nothing. And I do like to think the book answers that, because people were terrified and the church had such a stronghold."

Keegan highlights the pervasive influence of the Catholic Church in Ireland, underscoring how its dominance in various societal sectors contributed to the suppression of dissent and acknowledgment of injustices.

Writing Style and Process

Andrew Limbong probes into Keegan's distinctive writing style, characterized by its precision and brevity. Keegan attributes her succinctness to her literary background and personal inclinations:

Claire Keegan (07:02): "Well, I think my first love is poetry. But I'm not drawn to writing poetry because I'm drawn to paragraphs. I'm not even that interested in sentences. I'm just always trying to turn sentences into paragraphs because sentences are gregarious. They actually love the company of other sentences."

Her preference for the novella format allows for sustained intensity and focused narrative, distinguishing her work from traditional short stories or novels. Keegan explains her affinity for tension in storytelling:

Claire Keegan (08:24): "I'm really interested in writing tension. That's actually what keeps me reading as a reader. I'm really interested in tension. And almost every reader is. We call it different things. We call it a page-turning quality or we call it grip. There are several different names for it, but it is tension."

This focus on tension, often intertwined with themes of loss, drives the emotional core of her narratives.

When discussing her writing process, Keegan reveals a disciplined yet organic approach:

Claire Keegan (08:24): "I start at the beginning and I keep starting at the beginning every day and printing out what I have from the day before and going over it and trying to add a page or improve a page. And I just keep doing that every day until it's over."

She emphasizes continuous refinement, typically engaging in around 30 drafts, and eschews extensive plotting in favor of discovery-driven writing. This method allows her stories to unfold naturally, maintaining authenticity and emotional resonance.

Future Projects

Looking ahead, Keegan shares her plans to set her next novel on the farm where she was raised in County Wicklow. This return to her roots suggests a new exploration of personal and cultural landscapes, though she remains open to the story's direction:

Claire Keegan (09:52): "I'm going to write a book set on the farm where I was raised."

This forthcoming work promises to offer further reflections on Irish life, steeped in Keegan's signature narrative elegance and emotional depth.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Andrew Limbong expressing enthusiasm for Keegan's future endeavors and reiterating the widespread acclaim of Small Things Like These. Keegan's ability to intertwine historical truths with personal narratives, coupled with her disciplined yet flexible writing process, has cemented her place as a poignant and necessary voice in contemporary literature.

Notable Quotes

• Claire Keegan on emotional resonance:
  "I think this book hit a nerve." – [02:21]

• On the silence surrounding the Magdalene Laundries:
  "I was really interested in why people did and said nothing." – [04:10]

• Regarding her writing style and preference for paragraphs:
  "I'm just always trying to turn sentences into paragraphs because sentences are gregarious." – [07:02]

• On the importance of tension in storytelling:
  "I'm really interested in writing tension. That's actually what keeps me reading as a reader." – [08:24]

• Describing her writing process:
  "I keep starting at the beginning every day and printing out what I have from the day before and going over it and trying to add a page or improve a page." – [08:24]

Final Thoughts

Claire Keegan's Small Things Like These serves as a powerful testament to the resilience of the human spirit amidst systemic oppression. Through her eloquent prose and focused narrative, Keegan not only sheds light on a dark chapter of Irish history but also celebrates the quiet acts of courage that define humanity. This NPR episode provides listeners with a deeper appreciation of Keegan's work and the enduring impact of her storytelling.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. When do authors know they're done? When is a story fully told? It's a question I love hearing writers answer because it's so different from person to person. But it's especially interesting to hear Claire Keegan answer it. She's the author of the Booker nominated book Small Things like these and she seems like a ruthless writer. What I mean by that is in this conversation with Here Now's Debra Becker, Keegan talks about constantly paring down her sentences, making sure she isn't being too, too gregarious, not one line overwritten. And so how does she know when she's done writing? That's ahead.

[Debra Becker]

This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from Intuit. TurboTax Now Taxes is matching with an expert backed by tech to get you the most money [e-mail] experts only available with TurboTax Live. See guarantee [e-mail] guarantees Irish writer Claire.

[Claire Keegan]

Keegan is having a moment. Her 2021 novella Small Things like these was just announced as Oprah's latest book club pick and a movie adaptation of the book starring Oscar winning actor Cillian Murphy was released this fall. Small Things like these centers on Bill Furlong, an Irish coal merchant who just before Christmas discovers a woman who' being exploited at a local convent. The story takes inspiration from and is dedicated to the women and children of the real life Magdalene Laundries. That was a program run by the Catholic Church where so called fallen women were forced into unpaid labor. Claire Keegan is here to tell us more. Welcome and congratulations.

Thank you very much.

When your book was published in 2021, small things like these was shortlisted for the Booker Prize. You won the Orwell PR for Political Fiction, Irish Novel of the Year. You're one of the New York Times 100 best books of the 21st century. And now Oprah. Why do you think this story is resonating with so many people at this moment?

I don't really know. I mean, I don't think anybody is able to measure why some books are successful and others aren't. But I do think that people probably are inclined towards my works because they're not long winded and they do seem to move people Emotionally, I think this book hit a nerve.

Right. Of course. It was a very emotional story. Right. The scandal of the Magdalene laundries. They've been a big story in Ireland and here in the US too. These laundries operated for hundreds of years, enslaved tens of thousands of women. The laundries were actually operating in some places, I read, until the 90s. And a formal apology was issued by the Irish government in 2013. We're not talking very long ago.

No, it's appallingly recent.

Right. I mean, do you know anyone who was involved in the laundries?

No, I don't. But I mean, for me, it isn't a book about the laundries. For me, it's a book about a coal man who doesn't know who his father is because his mother was born out of wedlock. And I think it's more to do with hope and courage. You see, I didn't want to write. I didn't want to write a story of cruelty and incarceration.

I know it's hope and courage. And let's talk a little bit about that. Because even though these laundries were operating, when the coal man Bill Furlong discovers them, it's not as if it was exactly a secret in the community. Right. I mean, people. People knew something was happening, but they kind of didn't want to confront that reality. Is that really sort of what helped draw you to this, this struggle of whether or how to confront injustice?

Yes, to some extent. I was really interested in why people did and said nothing. And I do like to think the book answers that, because people were terrified and the church had such a stronghold. The church ran the schools, the hospitals. They hired and fired the teachers. There were a lot of books banned, and contraception was illegal until 1985 in Ireland, and marital rape was legal till 1990.

This is a story in a lot of ways about misogyny and the struggle and the power of women, too. I mean, it has those ideas in it. It's very women centered. But a man is the protagonist. Why is that?

Because he has agency. Because he can do something. It would be far more unlikely, I would imagine, for his wife, who already has five children to care for and a husband and herself to feed. I think it was just interesting to test what he would do with his freedom.

Well, we won't spoil the ending, but you do end the story without the reader really knowing the consequences of Bill's decision. Right. And what to do after he discovers this, and how courageous is he going to be? Why did you think it was important to end the story like that?

Because it suits my taste aesthetically as a reader. I'm trying to write a book I'd like to read. And the place I would like that story to stop is where I ended it. Because I think that I've said enough. And for me, elegance is saying just enough.

I watched an interview where you said stories are reluctantly told.

Yes. I think stories are told with varying degrees of reluctance.

When do you decide that a story is one that you're going to coax into writing?

I think the story doesn't leave me alone. If you ever had a dog and you're just lazy because it's a really wet day and the dog keeps nudging you to go out for the walk, you ignore him to a certain point. And then after a while, it's just so much easier to go out in the rain because you can't bear the dog nudging you anymore. Well, it's a bit like that for me. You know, the stories kind of come and say, well, please write me. Will you write me? And then in the end, they win.

You know, you mentioned not saying too much that your stories are very short. Your writing's been described as quite precise, and your books are novellas. So why do you think you're drawn to that form? I know you've said you don't want to say more than you think you need to, and you want something that you would enjoy as a reader, but I wonder why this is the form that suits you best.

Well, I think my first love is poetry. But I'm not drawn to writing poetry because I'm drawn to paragraphs. I'm not even that interested in sentences. I'm just always trying to turn sentences into paragraphs because sentences are gregarious. They actually love the company of other sentences. And most sentences really want to turn into a paragraph. And that really interests me. And I've been teaching creative writing. And so I've also always liked stories, and I like how people talk, and I'm drawn to that storytelling, but also in the shorter form. And when I say shorter, I mean the level of intensity. The big difference between the short story and the novel is the level of intensity. A short story just couldn't go on at that level of intensity for 3 or 400 pages. It couldn't possibly be sustained. So I'm attracted to the short story and the short forms. Having said that, I like to believe that if I do get a really long story, which needs three or 400 pages, that's what I'll write.

How do you describe your writing process? I'm sure many folks, probably your students, ask you this, right? So you decide a story and then do you, do you have a process that you typically follow?

Yes, I do. I start at the beginning and I, I keep starting at the beginning every day and printing out what I have from the day before and going over it and trying to add a page or improve a page. And I just keep doing that every day until it's over. I usually write in the mornings. I usually do about 30 drafts at least, and. And that's it. I really haven't ever plotted anything. I don't know anything at all about what's coming along or what I'll find or discover. I have no agenda. I don't go in there trying prove something or lock horns with any type of a theme. I'm just hoping to discover something that's interesting, which is tense. I'm interested in writing tension. That's actually what keeps me reading as a reader. I'm really interested in tension. And almost every reader is. We call it different things. We call it a page turning quality or we call it grip. There are several different names for it, but it is tension. And tension is linked to, to loss. And most, most stories are about somebody who has lost something or is losing something or is looking for something they've lost. And that's what narrative fiction feeds on. It feeds on loss.

What's next for you, Claire?

I'm going to write a book set on the farm where I was raised.

Ah.

I was raised on a farm in a place called County Wicklow. And I'm going to just use that as the bowl, if you like, to put my next book in. And I, I think it's going to be a novel. Something is drawing me back to the farm where I was raised. So I'm going to, I'm going to give that a go and see what that yields. I have no idea what it's going to be about.

Can't wait to read it when it's up. Thanks so much for being with us, author Claire Keegan. Her book is Small Things like these. It was adapted to a film earlier this year and was just named Oprah's latest book club selection. It was lovely to talk with you, Claire.

Thank you so much.

[Debra Becker]

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