Ten years later, Ta-Nehisi Coates says 'Between the World and Me' is no longer his

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: Ten Years Later, Ta-Nehisi Coates Says 'Between the World and Me' Is No Longer His

Release Date: July 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this thought-provoking episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Michelle Martin engages in a deep conversation with acclaimed author Ta-Nehisi Coates. Celebrating the 10th anniversary of his seminal work, Between the World and Me, Coates reflects on the book's enduring impact, his evolving role in national discourse, and the changing landscape of conversations around race in America.

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Anniversary Reflections

Michelle Martin opens the dialogue by highlighting the milestone of Between the World and Me reaching its paperback release on the decade mark. She contextualizes the conversation by referencing Coates' latest book, The Message, which addresses contemporary challenges such as the pushback against critical race theory in educational institutions.

Notable Quote:

"What no one person should be the spokesperson for that experience." – Ta-Nehisi Coates [02:34]

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Coates' Perspective on Being an Oracle

Coates expresses his discomfort with the expectation that authors, particularly those who have achieved significant acclaim, serve as moral or intellectual authorities beyond their written works. He emphasizes the importance of collective voices in addressing complex societal issues.

Notable Quote:

"I really, really believe that once you publish the book, it really doesn't belong to you anymore." – Ta-Nehisi Coates [08:01]

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Prince Jones and the Genesis of Between the World and Me

A pivotal moment in the conversation centers around Prince Jones, the man to whom Coates dedicated his book. Coates shares the tragic story of Jones' death at the hands of a police officer and how witnessing the aftermath fueled his exploration of race and identity.

Notable Quote:

"Prince was like the walking example of it." – Ta-Nehisi Coates [04:07]

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The Legacy and Its Current Challenges

Reflecting on the book's initial success, Coates discusses the unfortunate irony of Between the World and Me now facing attempts at censorship. He draws parallels to iconoclasts like Toni Morrison, highlighting how influential black authors often confront systemic efforts to suppress their narratives.

Notable Quote:

"Toni Morrison faced bans for like the vast majority of her literary career." – Ta-Nehisi Coates [07:14]

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Shifts in Public Discourse and Education

The episode delves into the surge in popularity of black-authored books following George Floyd's murder, juxtaposed with contemporary efforts to limit discussions on race in schools. Coates examines how societal responses to racial issues have oscillated between periods of intense focus and attempts at suppression.

Notable Quote:

"It's hard to talk about the book... it really doesn't belong to you anymore." – Ta-Nehisi Coates [08:01]

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Conclusion

As the conversation wraps up, Coates reiterates his stance on the autonomy of his work and the collective responsibility of voices engaged in the discourse on race. He underscores that while his book has had a significant cultural impact, the dialogue must continue to evolve beyond any single author's perspective.

Notable Quote:

"No one person should be the spokesperson for that experience." – Ta-Nehisi Coates [02:34]

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Episode Takeaway: Ten years after its publication, Between the World and Me remains a touchstone in conversations about race in America. Ta-Nehisi Coates reflects on the book's influence, his resistance to being pigeonholed as a singular voice on race, and the ongoing struggle to preserve and advance discussions on critical societal issues.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbaum]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaum. I used to be a booker for npr. That is, when something happens in the news, I'd find someone to talk about it, call them up, see if they'd be interested, get the schedules aligned, you know, that sort of thing. And when the world got weird or scary, it was natural for me to call up writers, people who might have something to say on the topic beyond the words they've written on the page. Today's interview has me questioning that inclination. It's with the writer T.A. nehisi Coates, whose book between the World and Me just celebrated its 10 year anniversary. Now a lot has changed since that book came out. Coates has become something of a literary superstar, the exact type of person I'd call up frantically in my booking days. But in this interview with NPR's Michelle Martin, he really questions this idea of a writer as a wise and oracular figure that has something to add to the national discourse besides what they've written. That's ahead.

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[Michelle Martin]

Ten years ago, Ta Nehisi Coates published the book between the World and Me. The memoir, written as a letter to his then 15 year old son was a literary phenomenon. Ten years later, as T.A. nehisi points out in his latest book, the Message, nearly half the country's school children are under state orders to be protected from quote, critical race theory and other quote unquote divisive concepts. Between the World and Me is now out in paperback on the 10th anniversary of its publication. So we thought this would be a good time to check back in with and he's with us now. Welcome back to the program.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Thanks for having me, Michelle. It's good to talk to you again.

[Michelle Martin]

You know, we actually spoke 10 years ago about this book and I.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Did we really?

[Michelle Martin]

Yes, we did.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Oh my God.

[Michelle Martin]

Wow. You know, we actually have that tape of my talking to you 10 years ago. I think we'll drop it.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Oh, please play a little bit of it. Oh God, that'll be great.

[Michelle Martin]

Sure. Let's hear it. Why not? Okay. Yeah. Do you feel that there is now some pressure to be kind of an oracle of race in a way that you did not feel before. Do you want that job?

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

No, no, no. And whenever I've been, you know, very, very careful to tell people what I am qualified to talk about and what I'm not qualified to talk about, and no one person should be, you know, the spokesperson, you know, for that experience, when no one person should be the oracle or be the articulator. Yeah, I still agree with that. I haven't changed on that.

[Michelle Martin]

All right.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Yeah, that's wonderful.

[Michelle Martin]

And so I know that this is kind of a crazy, unknowable question. Is this what you hoped would happen as a result of this book?

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Well, that's a great question. And it's a great question because I'm conflicted. Yes, to some extent. I wanted to be well read like any writer wants to be well read. I wanted to be well respected as a writer, like any writer wants to be well respected. I remain somewhat flummoxed at the notion of writers as a kind of oracular presence, or I did it because you wrote a book or two or three that people really enjoy, that that means you have some sort of greater thing to say beyond what's actually in the book. So, like, when I think about between the World and Me, for me, the most riveting part of that book was not so much what I had to say, but what Dr. Mabel Jones, Prince Jones mother, had to say, you know.

[Michelle Martin]

So let me go back to that, back to why you wrote between the World and Me. You dedicated your National Book Award and the book to a young man named Prince Jones, whom you knew at Howard University.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Ye.

[Michelle Martin]

Would you just say what happened to him and why it imprinted itself on you so strongly?

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Well, Prince was killed by a Prince George's county police officer undercover. And that officer followed my friend Prince from Prince George's county through the District of Columbia into Virginia, where he shot him, you know, a short distance away from the home of the mother of his child and you know, where he was going to see his young child. And it imprinted on me because I watched the dialogue about it in the days afterwards where they speculated, was he a drug dealer, was he this, was he that? And Prince was like a born again Christian. He was the exact opposite of everything, you know, like this model of who you want, you know, your son to be, you know, publicly, you know, presenting that I think black parents often fashion. He was like the walking example of it, you know, he was well spoken. Yes, sir. No, sir. You know, it's kind of southern, you know. Yes, ma', am. No, ma' am thing he would have very gentlemanly. I mean, at Howard, he pledged gentlemen of Drew and like he got killed by a police officer. I mean, it was just the most. And I spent 15 years weighing how that happened and like, why the dialogue around him was so different than the person that I knew. And that was the seed of between the World and Me all those years before.

[Michelle Martin]

Why do you think between the World and Me had the. The impact that it did? Do you have a sense 10 years later of what it captured in the moment that captured the public attention?

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

I think there are things that are in your control and things that are not in your control. The thing that was in my control, I should say our control, because I'm about to talk about my wonderful editor, Chris Jackson, was to like, we had this test and the test was, could a 14 year old kid who liked reading read the book? And then the thing that is outside of your control and that is just where the country is or where the audience is at that particular moment. The Mother Emanuel massacre had happened that summer. And actually the book was not supposed to come out until, I think, end of September, August. And they moved it up after the massacre. I think people were just searching for answers as to how this had happened.

[Michelle Martin]

So let me now quote from your latest book, the Message, which has also caused quite a stir. It may seem strange that a fight that began in the streets has now moved to the library, that a counter revolution in defense of brutal policing has now transformed itself into a war over scholarship and art. But in the months after George Floyd's murder, books by black authors on race and racism shot to the top of the bestseller list. And most borrowed lists, black bookstores saw their sales skyrocket. The cause for the spike was in the main, people who had been exposed to the image of George Floyd being murdered who suddenly began to suspect that they had not been taught the entire truth about justice, history, policing, racism, and any number of other related subjects. You know, here your book was so celebrated 10 years ago, and then 10 years later people are trying to ban it or at least make it harder to access. And I just wonder what you make of that.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Probably go hand in hand. Probably go hand in hand. I mean, one of the things that. And you know, I went and researched this when I was working on the message. It's like, you know, Toni Morrison faced bans for like the vast majority of her literary career. Certainly, you know, the greatest novelist that a lot of half of the 20th, early 21st century, you know, people put her, you know, in that sort of ranks. And yet she consistently faced bans in a way that in a way that I would point out other writers who might contend for that same title did not, not in the same degree that she did.

[Michelle Martin]

So what kind of conversations are you having? Or do you do you have a sense of what kinds of conversations you're gonna have now or the lack of conversation, a statement in itself.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

About between the world and me?

[Michelle Martin]

Yeah, about between the world and me.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

You know, it's hard to talk about it. I mean, even now, like, it's weird to talk about the book. Cause it's like I feel like again, you know, I talk about this in the message about how these books are like kids and they go on and they have their lives. It's like, I really, really believe that once you publish the book, it really doesn't belong to you anymore. It's not yours, you know.

[Michelle Martin]

TA Nehisi Coates is the author of between the World and Me, which is celebrating a decade in print, and it's available in paperback now. TA Nehisicotz, thanks so much for talking to us once again.

[Ta-Nehisi Coates]

Thank you, Michelle.

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