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Andrew Limbong
Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. There's been a number of divorce memoirs in recent years. I'm thinking of Splinters by Leslie Jameson or the American Ex Wife by Liz Lenz. Sachi Kuhl's new book, sucker Punch, is sort of a divorce memoir in that it's about her divorce, but the central relationship being considered in this book is the one she has with her mom. Kuhl talks to NPR's Layla Fadel about why her own divorce felt like it was something she was doing for both her her mom. That's coming up.
Layla Fadel
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Sachi Kuhl
Of essays, Sucker Punch, slate writer Sachi Cole is going through a lot. Her marriage is falling apart. She's grappling with her self worth, family pressures and a rape she never really dealt with. Through it all, her instinct since childhood was always to fight, even to show love.
Until now, I'm like angrier than ever and I have a capacity for conflict that is the highest it's ever been. But I fight the least that I ever have.
Now Cole says she's far from Zen, but she doesn't want conflict all the time anymore.
I do think I have at least learned a couple of things that I just won't do anymore. And I don't think I will any longer fight in relationships where I feel like I'm not being witnessed.
Well, how long have you been divorced now?
Layla Fadel
Three years.
Sachi Kuhl
Three years. So how is it?
I mean, I love divorce. Things like, I think it's great. Nothing has given me more in this life than being divorced.
So much of this book is, or at least as I was reading it's, watching you and really relating to working through your relationship with men, your own self worth. Writing about your divorce, about your rape when you're barely of age, and never really confronting it, about figuring out how to be alone. Did writing this book help you find a path to a calmer or more peaceful place?
Yeah, it was the only path. I was really disoriented after I started the divorce process. Every possible future building I've done in my head is not happening. I have just had to break bad news to everyone I know because then you got to tell your friends. I had to tell my family. Like, that's a painful conversation.
And so you ultimately settled on making your divorce kind of the center of this book? In some ways, yeah.
I think divorce offered me a framework for rethinking everything. Like, I started getting tattooed after my divorce, and I remember showing my mom, and she just would roll her eyes and, like, insult me in four or five languages and then move on with her day. If I had done that before my divorce, she would have, like, been on the phone to God. She would have had a meltdown about it. But I've already done the thing that scared her so much, and it's fine, you know.
So you got some freedom out of it?
Oh, yeah, a lot. A ton. It was the freedom I think I was trying to get before, and I couldn't. I had to do it this way.
Something that really, I think was so vulnerable of you was the way that you talked about your own rape and the need to talk to the person who did it to you, to reconnect to that person, to search for something in them that would maybe make you feel okay about it. I mean, it was relatable and fascinating to read you write about it in that way.
When I sort of sat down and thought about, like, okay, I'm writing this book about divorce, and I'm writing a book about ultimately what I view as these betrayals. Yeah, of me and to me and by me, you know, I'm committing them to myself as well and to other people. I really did wake up on his 30th birthday and feel it. I felt like we were moving into a new phase of our lives. And I felt like. I think I almost felt resentful at the idea. What if he could forget? That doesn't seem fair. I don't get to. So I think it started as. I just would like to make sure he remembers. I think he did. I think he did.
Yeah. Your mom.
Yeah.
Is a big part of this book, too. And you dedicate the book to quote my mom, obviously.
Obviously.
How did she influence Sucker Punch?
The divorce would have been very easy if I never had to tell my mother. When I left, it felt a little like I was leaving for both of us. She had, like, a consensual arranged marriage. She, you know, agreed to it, but she didn't know my dad very well. She got married at 24. Her mom got married at 14. So I also really abided by. I met someone young and I followed through. I did what I was supposed to do. And so it felt like I was taking her with me through the divorce in good and bad. And then her illness landed right after my divorce was finalized. And then that felt cosmic and cruel and unyielding and felt like something again we had to do in lockstep.
So it is a collection of essays and the first essay in this book, the first chapter is called Parvati Stands in Flames, and the last, Kali Starts a Fire. So first, if you could just describe the differences between these two Hindu goddesses and how they represent your own evolution.
I will also say this is my very loose interpretation of these fables. I, in my divorce, was thinking so much about all of these, like, these female. These Hindu deities. And so I kept thinking about stories about Parvati and her transition. Parvati is kind of like the most human version of herself. And she falls in love with a boy and her parents don't want her to marry him, even though he is also celestial. The story my mom used to tell me is that she stood in angry meditation for a thousand years and waited until her parents said, okay, fine, you can marry him. And they did. And then through the book, we kind of visit Parvatiya. She changes. She becomes Durga, who is more of a fighter. She spooks people. She is the deity that comes in and she ends the universe. So, you know, Hindus believe in reincarnation. We believe that the universe basically restarts, but at a certain point, it doesn't. After she effectively kills everybody, she cannot access Parvati again. She cannot get back to who she was and so her husband, one of the gods, not using his name cause he's not important, he throws himself at her feet to like knock her out of it because he is now going to show her this show of devotion. He's gonna offer it back to her and when he does it, then she shrinks back down to size.
Wow.
So even in like the versions I had heard as a kid, these stories are still about marriage and a shared duty to each other. But they are obviously taught differently to girls and to boys, and they're taught differently to different people in different families. These were not stories that I internalized until I left. And then I started really thinking about them and thinking about what it meant to start a fire.
Sachikol is a senior writer at Slate and the author of Sucker Punch. Thank you so much much for talking to us about the book.
Thanks for having me.
Layla Fadel
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NPR's Book of the Day: Summary of "Sucker Punch" by Sachi Kuhl
NPR's Book of the Day episode released on April 3, 2025, features an in-depth conversation between NPR host Layla Fadel and Sachi Kuhl, the senior writer at Slate and author of her new book of essays, Sucker Punch. This episode delves into Kuhl's personal journey through divorce, her complex relationship with her mother, and the profound insights she shares in her collection of essays.
Sachi Kuhl's Sucker Punch is characterized as a divorce memoir that transcends personal narrative to explore broader themes of self-worth, familial expectations, and unresolved trauma. Kuhl candidly discusses the dissolution of her marriage, not just as a personal event but as a catalyst for re-evaluating her relationship with her mother.
"Through it all, my instinct since childhood was always to fight, even to show love." — Sachi Kuhl [02:17]
Kuhl opens up about the multifaceted challenges she faced during her divorce, including grappling with her self-worth and dealing with a rape that remained unaddressed for years. She reflects on how these experiences have shaped her approach to conflict and personal boundaries.
"I'm like angrier than ever and I have a capacity for conflict that is the highest it's ever been. But I fight the least that I ever have." — Sachi Kuhl [02:17-02:26]
Despite her ingrained tendency to confront issues head-on, Kuhl expresses a conscious decision to minimize conflict in her relationships moving forward.
"I do think I have at least learned a couple of things that I just won't do anymore. And I don't think I will any longer fight in relationships where I feel like I'm not being witnessed." — Sachi Kuhl [02:32]
The conversation highlights how Kuhl uses her divorce as a framework to rethink various aspects of her life. She discusses the physical and emotional freedom she gained post-divorce, allowing her to pursue personal expressions, such as getting tattooed, without the fear of her mother's disapproval.
"I love divorce. Nothing has given me more in this life than being divorced." — Sachi Kuhl [02:48]
"So much of this book is... divorce offered me a framework for rethinking everything." — Sachi Kuhl [03:50]
A significant portion of Kuhl's essays delves into her experience with rape, exploring the complexities of confronting her past and seeking resolution. She articulates the vulnerability involved in addressing such a traumatic event and the impact it has had on her sense of self and her relationships.
"Something that really, I think was so vulnerable of you was the way that you talked about your own rape and the need to talk to the person who did it to you..." — Layla Fadel [04:28]
"I did wake up on his 30th birthday and feel it... I just would like to make sure he remembers." — Sachi Kuhl [04:52]
Kuhl intricately weaves Hindu mythology into her essays, using the stories of goddesses Parvati and Kali as metaphors for her personal transformation. She draws parallels between their narratives and her own evolution through divorce, symbolizing a shift from the humanistic aspects of Parvati to the fierce, transformative energy of Kali.
"Parvati is kind of like the most human version of herself... She changes. She becomes Durga, who is more of a fighter." — Sachi Kuhl [06:51]
"These stories are still about marriage and a shared duty to each other... It felt like something again we had to do in lockstep." — Sachi Kuhl [08:13]
Sucker Punch by Sachi Kuhl emerges as a poignant exploration of personal upheaval and resilience. Through her essays, Kuhl offers listeners a deep dive into the emotional labyrinth of divorce, the complexities of familial ties, and the journey towards self-discovery and healing. By intertwining personal anecdotes with mythological symbolism, Kuhl provides a unique lens through which to understand the transformative power of confronting and embracing change.
This NPR episode not only introduces Kuhl's compelling narratives but also underscores the therapeutic potential of writing and storytelling in navigating life's most challenging moments. For those seeking introspection or connection through literature, Sucker Punch presents a relatable and thought-provoking read.