NPR’s Book of the Day — October 3, 2025
Episode: Two New History Books Use the Past to Explain What’s Important Now
Host: Chloe Veltman
Key Guests:
- Dorie McCullough Lawson (daughter of David McCullough, co-editor)
- Jon Meacham (historian, foreword author)
- Scott Ellsworth (author, professor)
Overview
This episode delves into the relevance of history in contemporary life through two new books:
- History Matters—a posthumous collection of David McCullough’s speeches, essays, and interviews, spotlighting his insights on why history remains essential.
- Midnight on the Potomac by Scott Ellsworth—an exploration of the civil unrest and rebirth during the final throes of the Civil War, with new revelations about figures like John Wilkes Booth and Henry Highland Garnett.
The episode explores how a deeper understanding of America’s past can inform, inspire, and caution us in today’s divided times, challenging listeners to see the value and complexity in historical study.
Segment 1: Why History Matters — The Legacy of David McCullough
Guests: Dorie McCullough Lawson & Jon Meacham
Interview by: Scott Simon
Starts: [01:29]
Main Points & Insights
- David McCullough’s Approach to History ([02:08]-[02:46]):
- Dorie shares that her father’s primary themes were endless curiosity and a deep, consistent set of values, including “courage, respecting one another, devotion to truth, a loathing of hypocrisy, self-reliance, and—as he said—the power of simple goodness.”
- Discovering Themes in a Historian’s Work ([02:36]-[03:25]):
- Dorie discovered her father’s “curiosity” and unwavering devotion to fundamental values as he grew.
- Meacham echoes McCullough’s focus on “the perennial struggle of human beings to do the right thing, particularly when it’s not easy.”
- Memorable quote:
“His curiosity... and he also was the same person throughout his life, devoted to the old verities.”
— Dorie McCullough Lawson [02:46]
- The Role of Luck in History ([04:04]-[05:25]):
- Meacham references a McCullough essay on the significance of luck in history, including the “propitious fog in Brooklyn” that enabled Washington’s early success.
- “There are factors beyond our control... what is essential is that human beings be equipped to overcome bad luck or take advantage of good luck.”
— Jon Meacham [04:34]
- Reconciling Triumph & Tragedy in American History ([05:25]-[07:13]):
- The U.S. is both a nation of achievement and of injustice (“productivity, but also slavery, imperialism”).
- Meacham stresses looking at history not condescendingly, but “in the eye”:
“By looking American history in the eye, we see what we got right and we see what we got wrong... We must seek the light, always aware that darkness can fall.”
— Jon Meacham [06:06]
- History’s Relevance and the Myth of Simpler Times ([07:13]-[08:38]):
- Both guests dismiss the idea of a “simpler time.” Meacham:
“We do a disservice to history by acting as if there was a once upon a time where things were easier... it has always been a struggle between our worst instincts and our better angels.”
— Jon Meacham [07:18]
- Both guests dismiss the idea of a “simpler time.” Meacham:
- What Can History Offer Us Now? ([08:04]-[09:27]):
- Dorie: History “teaches us how to behave... gives us a sense of proportion about our own time... intensifies our experience of being alive.”
- Meacham: It’s a “source of inspiration”—if past Americans overcame immense challenge, so can we:
“If the men and women who prevailed at Lexington and Concord and prevailed at Gettysburg and prevailed at Omaha Beach… if they could do it, then in our challenges, we can too.”
— Jon Meacham [08:38]
Segment 2: Midnight on the Potomac — Rethinking the Civil War’s End
Guest: Scott Ellsworth
Interview by: Scott Simon
Starts: [10:14]
Main Points & Insights
- A Personal Path to the Civil War ([11:23]-[12:20]):
- Ellsworth recalls early education at "Robert E. Lee Elementary" in Tulsa, where the Civil War was taught as a “misunderstanding” among well-meaning white men, ignoring slavery and venerating Confederate leaders.
- Evolving Understanding of the Civil War ([12:20]-[13:16]):
- Years of research led him to appreciate the Civil War as “the central, most important event in all of American history,” surpassing even the Revolution in its enduring relevance regarding American identity and democracy.
- John Wilkes Booth: Not the Villain You Think ([13:29]-[14:30]):
- Contrary to the stereotype of Booth as a “second-rate actor” and “disturbed individual,” Ellsworth’s research shows Booth was an “absolute superstar of the American stage,” mobbed by fans and driving sold-out performances.
- Booth’s prominence changed Ellsworth’s perspective and drew him deeper into Civil War history.
- Notable quote:
“Once I realized that our version of Booth the person was so wrong, I got interested in diving deeper into him...”
— Scott Ellsworth [14:13]
- The Kidnapping Plot ([14:50]-[16:06]):
- Evidence suggests Booth met with Confederate Secret Service agents, building a scheme not merely to kill Lincoln, but to kidnap him and use him as a bargaining chip to end the war—showcasing a previously overlooked dimension of Booth’s actions and connections.
- Unsung Figures: Henry Highland Garnett & Lois Adams ([16:06]-[17:48]):
- Ellsworth spotlights Garnett, a Black minister and fugitive from slavery, who became the first African American to address Congress—marking progress in a city transformed by formerly enslaved people and activism for equal rights.
- He also introduces Lois Adams, a pioneering female war correspondent, as an overlooked chronicler of the time.
- Parallels Between Then and Now ([17:48]-[19:03]):
- Ellsworth draws direct comparisons between post-Civil War division and America’s current polarized landscape.
“We have never been more divided in my lifetime than in the last eight or ten years... The only time we’d been so divided was during the Civil War era.”
— Scott Ellsworth [18:05] - The book is meant to remind readers of past struggles that the country has endured—and to provide both context and hope in navigating present-day challenges.
- Ellsworth draws direct comparisons between post-Civil War division and America’s current polarized landscape.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On the Use of History in the Present
- “History gives us a sense of proportion about our own time... it intensifies our experience of being alive.”
— Dorie McCullough Lawson [08:08]
- “History gives us a sense of proportion about our own time... it intensifies our experience of being alive.”
- On Facing the Past Honestly
- “The central task of a biographer, of a historian, and yes, of a citizen is... not to look back at the past condescendingly, but to look it in the eye.”
— Jon Meacham [06:06]
- “The central task of a biographer, of a historian, and yes, of a citizen is... not to look back at the past condescendingly, but to look it in the eye.”
- On the Civil War’s Lasting Relevance
- “This is a book about how we almost lost our country.”
— Scott Ellsworth [17:48]
- “This is a book about how we almost lost our country.”
- On American Resilience
- “If the men and women who prevailed at Lexington and Concord and prevailed at Gettysburg and prevailed at Omaha Beach... if they could do it, then in our challenges, we can too.”
— Jon Meacham [08:38]
- “If the men and women who prevailed at Lexington and Concord and prevailed at Gettysburg and prevailed at Omaha Beach... if they could do it, then in our challenges, we can too.”
Key Timestamps
- [01:29] Introduction to David McCullough and his impact
- [02:46] Dorie McCullough Lawson on themes in her father’s work
- [04:19] The importance of luck in history
- [05:25] Reconciling America’s triumphs and injustices
- [06:49] Re-examining history and optimism
- [08:08] What history can do for us today
- [10:14] Introduction to “Midnight on the Potomac”
- [11:41] Ellsworth discusses early lessons on the Civil War
- [13:29] Reframing John Wilkes Booth
- [14:50] The kidnapping plot and Booth’s motives
- [16:28] The story of Henry Highland Garnett
- [17:48] Parallels between Civil War era and today’s divisions
Tone & Style
The conversation is deeply reflective yet engaging, blending scholarly insights with relatable personal anecdotes. The guests and hosts alike stress the importance of honest engagement with the past and urge listeners not to seek nostalgia but understanding—calling for both critical thinking and hope.
Summary Takeaways
- Both books underscore the essential role of history—not as distant chronicle, but as a living tool for self-understanding, national reckoning, and civic inspiration.
- History is presented not as pure triumph or condemnation, but as a guide—offering both lessons and perspective in confusing or divided times.
- Listeners are encouraged to confront the nation’s past honestly, to reevaluate familiar stories, and to draw strength from those who have shaped history before us.