Zadie Smith looks back at her debut novel 'White Teeth' 25 years after its release

Summary

NPR's Book of the Day: 25 Years Later with Zadie Smith's 'White Teeth'

Release Date: April 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this commemorative episode of NPR's Book of the Day, host Andrew Limbong reflects on the 25th anniversary of Zadie Smith's groundbreaking debut novel, White Teeth. Celebrated as a monumental work that continues to resonate through generations, White Teeth is lauded for its insightful exploration of themes such as immigration, race, religion, and identity. Limbong sets the stage by highlighting the novel's enduring legacy and introduces Smith's retrospective thoughts on her seminal work and personal growth since its publication.

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Deep Dive into White Teeth

Host: Leanne Hansen
Guest: Zadie Smith
Timestamp: [01:46] - [08:32]

Leanne Hansen provides an in-depth analysis of White Teeth, emphasizing its expansive narrative that spans two decades and intricately weaves the lives of diverse characters in North London. Smith, of British and Jamaican heritage, uses her personal background to infuse authenticity into the novel's setting and characters.

Key Themes Explored:

• Immigration and Identity: Smith delves into the challenges of maintaining cultural identity in a multicultural society.
• Religion and Morality: The novel scrutinizes the impact of religious beliefs on personal and familial relationships.
• Generational Conflict: Highlighting the tension between traditional values and modern identities, especially within immigrant families.

Notable Characters:

• Mr. Whiteface: An eccentric Indian man symbolizing the cultural diversity of Willesden.
• Mr. Newspaper: Represents the fragmented and information-saturated modern life.
• Mad Mary: A voodoo practitioner illustrating the blend of tradition and modernity.
• Mr. Toupee: A quirky character embodying the absurdities of identity and appearance.

Zadie Smith on Characterization:

“Now, the children knew the city and they knew the city breeds the mad... They knew Mr. Whiteface, an Indian who walks the streets of Willesden with his face painted white... they knew Mad Mary... they knew Mr. Toupee...”
— White Teeth ([02:23])

Smith discusses her fascination with characters who live rigidly by their religious principles, portraying them as figures of both admiration and struggle.

“When people live to a religious principle, they subjugate their whole lives to one dogma... I think is quite remarkable.”
— Zadie Smith ([04:02])

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Themes and Philosophical Underpinnings

Timestamp: [04:19] - [08:32]

Smith elaborates on the novel's exploration of nature versus nurture and the complexities of immigrant families striving to preserve their cultural and moral values in a new environment. She draws parallels between diverse religious backgrounds, emphasizing that the challenges of passing on beliefs are universal across different cultures and regions.

Zadie Smith on Democracy and Unity:

“With Zeno, you can have a country which is one country, but is still full of huge variety of people and cultures... the original ideal of democracy.”
— Zadie Smith ([05:14])

Smith introduces Zeno's Paradox as a metaphor for societal cohesion amid diversity, illustrating how a unified community can embrace multiplicity without losing its collective identity.

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Reflections on the Writing Process and Legacy

Timestamp: [08:08] - [16:26]

Leanne Hansen and Zadie Smith engage in a candid conversation about the novel's reception, Smith's personal growth, and her relationship with her characters decades after their creation.

Key Insights:

• Unexpected Success: Smith expresses astonishment and overwhelm at the novel's enduring popularity and critical acclaim.

  “I am astounded by it and slightly overwhelmed...”
  — Zadie Smith ([06:38])

• Connection with Readers: Meeting diverse readers who relate to her work in various ways has been one of the most fulfilling aspects of her journey.

  “It's just so nice to meet the people who've actually read your book...”
  — Zadie Smith ([06:54])

• Evolving Identity: Smith discusses feeling disconnected from her younger self who wrote White Teeth, attributing this to natural personal evolution and midlife introspection.

  “I'm going to be 50 this year... I'm menopausal... I find myself much more quiet inside.”
  — Zadie Smith ([09:23])

• Creative Challenges: Facing uncertainty about her creative direction, Smith reflects on the pressure and expectations that come with literary success.

  “I may have run out of that. We'll see... I don't know what is next for me.”
  — Zadie Smith ([13:59])

Zadie Smith on Her Characters' Legacy:

“Maybe one character in each book stays with me strongly... I like the idea of them all kind of existing independently from me...”
— Zadie Smith ([13:11])

Smith shares her hope that her characters live beyond her imagination, contributing to the literary world independently.

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Conclusion

As NPR's Book of the Day celebrates the 25th anniversary of White Teeth, Zadie Smith offers a profound reflection on her debut novel's impact, her personal growth, and her ongoing relationship with her readership. The episode underscores the timeless relevance of Smith's work and her continued influence in contemporary literature.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Zadie Smith on Living by Religious Principles:

  “[...] people subjugate their whole lives to one dogma. And which might seem stupid to some people, but I think is quite remarkable.”
  — [04:02]

• On Zeno's Paradox and Society:

  “It's the classical paradox about basically cutting up time... the world is kind of entirely one and circular. And I want to try and show the multiplicity within oneness.”
  — [05:14]

• Reflections on Meeting Readers:

  “People tell me things like my name means grandfather in Yiddish, which I know until I came here. Some of the readers, Caribbean readers...”
  — [07:33]

• On the Quality of Her Book:

  “I think it's a good book, yes. The book is the best part of me and the book is the best part of most writers.”
  — [08:11]

• On Creative Energy and Midlife:

  “I may have run out of that. We'll see... I don't know what is next for me.”
  — [13:59]

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of NPR's Book of the Day episode celebrating Zadie Smith's White Teeth, providing an insightful overview for both new listeners and longtime fans alike.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Zadie Smith's debut novel, White Teeth, is one of those big, monumental novels. If they're still making lists rounding up Great Books in 100 years, I'd bet that White Teeth would make the cut. That book recently marked its 25th anniversary and Smith talked to NPR about what it's like looking back not just on the work, but on the person she was when she wrote it. But if you've never read White Teeth before, we've got you covered. We dug up Zadie Smith's interview with NPR 25 years ago talking about White Teeth, and it's a really interesting time capsule. She spoke with NPR's Leanne Hansen and they got into why, of all things, Smith chose to write about faith in her debut novel. That's ahead. This message comes from Schwab at Schwab. How you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own, plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

[Rachel Martin]

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[Leanne Hansen]

Smith just had her first novel published. White Teeth is long, almost 500 pages, and it has several grand themes, immigration, race, religion, history, love and genetics. Smith was born in England. Her father is British, her mother Jamaican. White Teeth is set in Smith's North London neighborhood and the author gently pokes fun at her characters fears and their struggle to find as well as maintain an identity. It is a 20 year chronicle of the daily lives of people both sane and insane.

[Zadie Smith]

Now the children knew the city and they knew the city breeds the mad. They knew Mr. Whiteface, an Indian who walks the streets of Willesden with his face painted white, his lips painted blue, wearing a pair of tights and some hiking boots. And they knew Mr. Newspaper, a tall skinny man in an ankle length raincoat who sits in Brent libraries removing the day's newspapers from his briefcase and methodically tearing them into strips. And they knew Mad Mary, a black voodoo woman with a red face whose territory stretches from Kilburn to Oxford street, but who performs her spells from a garbage can in West Hampstead. And they knew Mr. Toupee, who has no eyebrows and wears a toupee not on his head but on a string around his neck. But these people announced their madness, they flaunted their insanity, and they were properly mad in the Shakespearean sense, talking sense when you least expected it. In North London, where councillors once voted to change the name of the area to Nirvana, it's not unusual to walk the streets and be suddenly confronted by sage words from the chalk faced, blue.

[Leanne Hansen]

Lipped or eyebrowless white Teeth focuses on the story of the unlikely friendship between the shy, unassuming Englishman Archie Jones and his friend Samad Iqbal, a devout Bengali Muslim. Both men are trying to pass on their religious and moral beliefs to their children, in Samad's case, twin sons from an arranged marriage. Archie married a younger Jamaican woman who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, and they have a daughter. But things don't always turn out as planned. Zadie Smith says she's always been fascinated by those who try to live their lives according to religious principles.

[Zadie Smith]

When people live to a religious principle, they subjugate their whole lives to one dogma. And which might seem stupid to some people, but I think is quite remarkable.

[Leanne Hansen]

In what way?

[Zadie Smith]

Because it takes a huge effort of faith and faith is fantastic.

[Leanne Hansen]

You are, I mean, it seems like one of the big themes you are exploring here, sort of the difference between nature and nurture, who we are, who we think we want to be, who we would like people to be, particularly with parents and children. Do you think it's different when you are dealing with immigrant families, families that are coming to a new country? For example, you have people from in your characters from Jamaica, from Bengal.

[Zadie Smith]

No, I think it proves the same for all the characters in the book, whether they're immigrants or not. It's a generational thing and it's always about trying to pass on what you believe is important to your children and they're not always appreciative of that. It might be kind of exasperated with some immigrants just because it tends to be people from the east have a more active kind of religious background than maybe some people in the West. But I would say it's exactly the same for Midwest Christians or Baptist from the South. Or it's always tricky.

[Leanne Hansen]

You bring up something which I found fascinating. It's known as Zeno's Paradox.

[Zadie Smith]

Yeah.

[Leanne Hansen]

First, can you describe that? Can you explain what that is?

[Zadie Smith]

It's a classical paradox about basically cutting up time. A good example of it is a racetrack, a circular racetrack, if you're running 400 meters around it, and then you imagine the racetrack cut into half. To get to the halfway point, you at first have to get to the halfway point of that, and then the halfway point of that and the halfway point of that. So it's endless. And on the surface, it makes you think that you could never run anywhere, or at least you couldn't finish the track, because you always have to complete half of the distance between one and another point. The point of that paradox is that the world is kind of. The world is kind of entirely one and circular. And I want to try and show the multiplicity within oneness, what might appear to be oneness, and that the two don't have to be contradictory or paradoxical in the way they are. With Zeno, you can have a country which is one country, but is still full of huge variety of people and cultures, religions, lifestyles, and there's still a oneness to it because these people have decided to be part of a community together. And that was the original ideal of democracy. But as we know, most of our democracies work in kind of tribal fashion, even though they appear to be democratic.

[Leanne Hansen]

A lot of people have compared this book to Salman Rushdie. And you're not thrilled with that comparison?

[Zadie Smith]

No, I don't mind it at all. I'm very flattered by it, as anyone would be. I don't think it's entirely accurate, but it's very nice to be compared.

[Leanne Hansen]

Are you surprised at all by the reaction to this?

[Zadie Smith]

I am astounded by it and slightly overwhelmed and as you can probably hear, very tired, because I've just never had to do so much traveling and talking about myself ever. But I am pleased and amazed.

[Leanne Hansen]

What have you learned from this book tour that you're bound and determined not to repeat?

[Zadie Smith]

I've met my readers, which is one of the best experiences you can have, I think. And they are very disparate, very kind, funny people. So that was really nice. And they talk a lot. They talk me under the table every time I give a reading. But, you know, it's just so nice to meet the people who've actually read your book, rather than. I mean, for two years, the only people who'd read it were reviewers and kind of publishers and editors and agents. And it's nice to meet people who've just picked it up on a recommendation or whatever. So I've learned how much fun it is to meet your readers.

[Leanne Hansen]

Have you learned anything new from the readers of your book that maybe you.

[Zadie Smith]

Haven'T turned all the time? I think people notice things and point things out, particularly when I'm signing. People come up and they always have something to say about the book or something they've noticed. So it's often quite enlivening. People tell me things like my name means grandfather in Yiddish, which I know until I came here. Some of the readers, Caribbean readers, when they come up to talk to me, there's a kind of different spin on it because they're talking, they see an experience in there that maybe they recognize or whatever, which is nice. But it is a very kind of disparate crowd. It really is. And that's exactly what I wanted for it.

[Leanne Hansen]

So do you think the book is as good as everyone else says it is?

[Zadie Smith]

I think it's a good book, yes. The book is the best part of me and the book is the best part of most writers. So go to the book first.

[Leanne Hansen]

Zadie Smith. Her new novel is called White Teeth, and it's published by Random House. Thanks for coming in.

[Zadie Smith]

Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Martin]

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[Andrew Limbong]

Okay, so more recently, Zadie smith spoke with NPR's Wildcard with Rachel Martin. And Smith talked about how distant she feels from the person who wrote white teeth 25 years ago. Here's Rachel.

[Rachel Martin]

We're going to pull back and talk about White Teeth.

[Leanne Hansen]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

How are you feeling 25 years on?

[Zadie Smith]

I mean, you know, it's very aging. That's what I have to say about it.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, would you rather just like, let's just move on? I wrote that thing when I was 20.

[Zadie Smith]

No, no, it's fine.

You know, you know what's actually really hard if I'm just being real with you is that, you know, I'm going to be 50 this year, I'm menopaus, and it's hard to I think what comes with with these feelings is a lot of silence. You know, it's. You feel quite quiet inside. If you had me here in the chair at 27, I'd be talking 12 to the dozen. But I, I find myself much more quiet inside. So it's sometimes hard. Yeah. To kind of answer to that 21 year old girl who wrote that busy book because I, I love her and God bless her, but you know, she's just not me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. You haven't. Do you have occasion to go back and open it?

[Zadie Smith]

I mean, I mean, for the anniversary? I was meant to do that and I did try. I mean, I opened it, I took a look at one page and I was like, not today, Satan. That was kind of my reaction to that experience. So, you know, I really, I love. The thing I love about it is that teenagers love it. Teenagers pick it up and read it. And to me that's exactly where it should be. That is a book for young people. And all the books for young people that exist from Katya to, I don't know, something like Sula, Toni Morris, I love those books. I love books that are for young people and that young people respond to strongly. So I'm really delighted if White Teeth has any place in that canon of books you pick up at 15 and 16 and get excited about literature. That nothing could make me happier than that thought.

[Rachel Martin]

But at the same time, when it came out, it's not fair to put your words to you so many years later. But you said in a New Yorker interview, I really don't think anyone should write a first novel at my age. You said this when you were like 24.

[Zadie Smith]

You know, I was in shock because I didn't know about this machine that goes around novel writing. You know, I was really naive. I just didn't understand what I was getting into. So it was, it was kind of hard to suddenly have to be, you know, a public person of any kind or someone who was meant to know things about things. I didn't feel like I knew anything about anything. So it was, it was like a kind of catch up. I had to play catch up with this idea of what a writer is.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, but I don't get that. You say you didn't know anything about anything, but you're writing about the. I just read the book. It was a huge hole in my literary history, but I just read it. So it's on my mind.

[Zadie Smith]

Okay, thank you for reading.

[Rachel Martin]

But like when you were 19, 20, 21, how did you know what it was like to walk around the world As a middle aged Bangladeshi man cheating on his wife and splitting up his twins. But you knew so much intrinsically about other people.

[Zadie Smith]

I thought everybody thought that way about other people. I guess that's the surprise when I published it, that it seemed an unusual thing to others. But. But I've always operated like that and I think for me, everything about people interests me and I have this kind of, I don't know, just like deep affection. I know it's not very fashionable, but I kind of, you know, I like people for the most part.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Does that mean the idea of writing a memoir is anathema?

[Zadie Smith]

Inconceivable? Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

So are those characters at all in your consciousness anymore?

[Zadie Smith]

Oh God, that's a good question. I don't know. My characters. Maybe one character in each book stays with me strongly. Like, I guess in White Teeth it might be Samad. And on Beauty it's definitely Kiki. It might just be the person who's most well created is the one that you feel fondness for because they seem most real.

[Rachel Martin]

Real and you spent the most time.

[Zadie Smith]

With them and you've spent most time with them. I like the idea of them all kind of existing independently from me, that seems like a wonderful thought if it were true. If they kind of exist in the world somehow. But. But I don't know.

[Rachel Martin]

Where'S your creative energy focused right now?

[Zadie Smith]

I think for the very first time in my life, I may have run out of that. We'll see. But, you know, from the earliest age, I've always known exactly what I was writing, what was coming next, et cetera, et cetera, without a moment's doubt or. And now, if I'm really honest, I have a lot of doubt. I don't know what is next for me. I finished a book of essays which comes out in October, but because I've never had a very professional outlook when it comes to writing, you know, I've only ever written because I felt I had to or felt compelled to and wanted to. I don't know how writing will be if I don't have that feeling, but maybe it will. It will pass. Maybe it's just something to do with midlife.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, as a person who is also sharing that experience of midlife, I.

[Zadie Smith]

Think that's a. Yeah, it's hard. It's a hard moment. And you're not kind of driven on in the same way. But at the same time, whatever that retraction is of your, you know, great big shining personality, new things can come into that space. Like I find myself just enormously moved by people like I I always was. But now it's really almost overwhelming. You know, everybody seems to me so precious.

[Rachel Martin]

That's how I feel, too. Little tiny moments.

[Zadie Smith]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Zadie Smith, the author of many books, including White Teeth, which is marking its 25th anniversary, thank you so much for talking with me.

[Zadie Smith]

Thank you.

[Andrew Limbong]

That was just a snippet of a longer conversation Zadie Smith had on the NPR podcast Wildcard. You can find the full episode wherever you get your podcasts. And that's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. If you want more, you can sign up for our [e-mail] Newsletter Books I'm Angel Limbong. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our founding editor is Petra Maher. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Adriana Gallardo, Monte Carlo Khurana, Megan Lim, Sarah Handel, Carla Estevez, Dave Blanchard and Summer Tomad. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.

[Rachel Martin]

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