Nudge Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Don’t listen to this podcast
Host: Phill Agnew
Guest: Adam Ferrier, Consumer Psychologist, Co-founder of Thinkerbell
Date: December 15, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Nudge explores the psychological power of reactance—the urge to do precisely what we’re told not to. Phill Agnew and Adam Ferrier dive into why telling people “don’t” (as in “don’t listen to this podcast,” “don’t fly Jetstar,” or “don’t buy this jacket”) can be a powerful marketing tool. They dissect the behavioral science behind reverse psychology, share compelling campaign case studies, and discuss practical insights for marketers seeking to capture attention and drive action.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Jetstar Challenge: Embracing the Negative Narrative

• [01:07] Adam Ferrier introduces Jetstar:
  • “Jetstar is a low cost carrier. It’s the EasyJet of Australia. … There was only two reasons why people would write about Jetstar. That is, you could get a $1 Air Sydney to the Gold coast or Jetstar just left a dozen people stranded in Bali and they couldn’t get home.”
• Jetstar faced reputational challenges, especially in New Zealand where Air New Zealand is beloved.
• Key Marketing Brief: Make Jetstar more likable in a market that favored its rival, and introduce some fun.

2. The Power of Reactance in Human Psychology

• Reactance Defined:
  • “A sense of reactance is when you…take away somebody’s free will to do what they want.” (B/Adam, [05:19])
• Adam recounts the impact of reactance, referencing anti-smoking campaigns:
  • “The only thing that hasn’t really worked is the graphic images on the labels…for some people, …they say, no I won’t smoke. But the heavy smokers…it creates a bit of a fuck you, don’t tell me what to do. …they end up smoking more.” (B/Adam, [04:07])
• Supporting Research:
  • Phill discusses studies indicating direct persuasion creates pushback, including:
    • The 1972 “Romeo and Juliet effect” study: parental disapproval increases teenage romantic attachment. (A/Phill, [05:26])
    • Preschoolers eat less of foods when told of their benefits—inference that persuasion signals something undesirable. (A/Phill, [07:02])

3. Implementing Reverse Psychology in Marketing

• Classic Social Experiment:
  • Cialdini’s “for adults only” book ad at Purdue University boosted interest purely by restricting access. (A/Phill, [08:21])
• Modern Examples:
  • Bumble: Signs on campus forbidding app use piqued student interest and grew adoption. (A/Phill, [09:28])
• Jetstar’s “Don’t Fly Jetstar” Campaign:
  • “We developed a campaign that challenged people not to fly Jetstar and it’s just called Don’t Fly Jetstar.” (B/Adam, [10:09])
  • Examples included: don’t scan the QR code, don’t read this press release, don’t pick up this orange bag, don’t book $29 fares.
  • In a YouTube video, luggage tagged “don’t pick up the orange suitcase” awarded free flight vouchers when ignored. (A/Phill & B/Adam, [10:39])

4. Results and Effectiveness

• Engagement:
  • “People [were] approximately five times more likely to click onto or engage with the content than…equivalent types of content.” (B/Adam, [13:03])
• Host’s Own Test:
  • Phill ran Reddit ads:
    • Direct (“5 Reasons Why You Should Listen to Nudge”) vs. Reverse Psychology (“5 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Listen…”)
    • The reverse-psychology ad had a 400% higher click-through rate (0.47% vs 0.09%), generating 500+ new listeners. (A/Phill, [13:38])

5. Why Negative Messaging Works (The Negativity Bias)

• “There’s a thing called the negativity bias where we pay more attention to negative messages and negative stimuli than we do positive stuff.” (B/Adam, [15:30])
• Example:
  • Patagonia’s “Don’t Buy This Jacket” campaign urged thrift, but boosted brand and possibly sales. (B/Adam, [16:39])
• Marketers are typically afraid of negative messaging, but it can draw outsized attention if used wisely.

6. Limitations and Final Advice

• “I don’t think it’s a sustainable long term strategy for a brand. But if you do want to do a spike of attention, then yeah, sure.” (B/Adam, [17:03])
• Phill wraps by noting that in a world saturated with positive, persuasive messaging, the occasional reversal offers something fresh and attention-grabbing—but shouldn’t be overused.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam Ferrier, on reactance and his anti-smoking story:

  • “My dad was…a marble red smoker and he had his coffin painted as a box of marble reds when he died…he wanted to be cremated so he could light up one last time.” (B/Adam, [03:29])

• Phill, on parental resistance and romance:

  • “If the parents viewed the couple critically…the child ended up feeling a greater love and desire for marriage. …The Romeo and Juliet effect.”
    (A/Phill, [05:26])

• Adam, on the campaign’s impact:

  • “People approximately five times more likely to click onto or engage with the content than…equivalent types of content.”
    (B/Adam, [13:03])

• Phill, on his Reddit ad experiment:

  • “The reactance variant…was four times more effective. …Almost a 400% uplift from telling people not to listen.” (A/Phill, [13:38])

• Adam, on the dangers of overusing the tactic:

  • “I don’t think it’s a sustainable long term strategy for a brand. But if you do want to do a spike of attention, then yeah, sure.” (B/Adam, [17:03])

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–01:07: Introduction; why telling people not to do something works
• 01:17–02:00: Jetstar’s negative reputation and the core marketing challenge
• 03:29–04:45: Adam’s personal experience with reactance; anti-smoking campaigns
• 05:19–06:29: Reactance defined; psychological and behavioral science studies
• 08:21–09:28: Cialdini & Bumble examples
• 10:09–12:00: Details of the Jetstar “Don’t Fly Jetstar” campaign and its mechanics
• 13:03–13:38: Campaign engagement data
• 13:38–15:30: Phill’s Reddit ad experiment; comparison and results
• 15:30–16:39: Negativity bias and the Patagonia example
• 17:03–18:11: Adam’s practical advice on using reverse psychology in marketing

Further Resources

• Adam Ferrier’s Books:
  • The Advertising Effect: How to Change Behaviour
  • Stop Listening to Your Customer: Try Hearing Your Brand Instead ([18:11])
• Check out Nudgevault for more insights and research compendiums, as recommended by listener David Mead ([18:41]).

Closing Thought

If you want people to do something—sometimes, just tell them not to. But don’t rely on this as your only trick; save it for when you need to stand out.

“Don’t listen to Nudge, don’t tell your friends how great this episode was and definitely don’t leave me a five star review.”
– Phill Agnew, [17:11]