Podcast Summary: Nudge Episode - "How Your Brain Can Reveal What You Buy"
Release Date: August 4, 2025
Host: Phil Agnew
Guest: Professor Paul Zak
Podcast Description: Nudge is the UK's #1 marketing podcast, breaking down the hidden psychology behind what we do and why we do it. No BS, just smart, science-backed insights that actually work.
1. Introduction to Paul Zak and His Groundbreaking Research
In this episode of Nudge, host Phil Agnew welcomes Professor Paul Zak, a renowned behavioral economist and neuroscientist from Claremont Graduate University in California. Zak's work focuses on understanding the neurochemical underpinnings of human behavior, particularly how hormones like oxytocin influence our decisions and interactions.
2. Oxytocin: The Trust and Empathy Hormone
Zak introduces the concept of oxytocin, a neurochemical signal that plays a crucial role in fostering trust and cooperation among humans. He explains:
“Oxytocin is a hormone that signals that a person is safe to be around. I call it the 'you seem trustworthy' signal.”
— Paul Zak [02:23]
Through innovative research methods, Zak and his team developed a protocol to measure the brain's acute release of oxytocin. This involved administering synthetic oxytocin via a nasal spray, which crosses the blood-brain barrier within approximately 45 minutes, effectively "bathing the brain" in oxytocin without adverse effects.
3. Oxytocin's Impact on Charitable Behavior
One of Zak's pivotal studies demonstrated the profound effect of oxytocin on charitable donations:
- Methodology: Participants watched a short video about heart disease. One group received a synthetic oxytocin spray before viewing, while the control group received a placebo.
- Findings: Those who received oxytocin donated 56% more on average than the placebo group and were 50% more likely to donate to featured charities.
“If I can communicate to you in a way that's sufficiently valuable to your brain, then I'm going to act on that.”
— Paul Zak [04:57]
Zak attributes this increase in generosity to oxytocin's role in enhancing empathy, effectively making individuals more receptive to emotionally charged messages.
4. The Concept of Immersion: Combining Dopamine and Oxytocin
Zak introduces the term "Immersion" to describe a network of neuroelectrical signals that determine how the brain values social and emotional experiences. Immersion is characterized by two main components:
- Presence or Attention: Driven by dopamine, this ensures individuals are focused and engaged.
- Emotional Resonance: Governed by oxytocin, this facilitates empathy and the emotional significance of the experience.
“If your marketing or your advertising convinces me that this thing's important somehow, neurologically, then I'm going to act on that.”
— Paul Zak [04:57]
5. Application in Marketing: Beyond Self-Reported Preferences
Zak and his colleague Jorge explored how emotionally charged messages influence consumer behavior by increasing immersion. They conducted a study during the 2014 Super Bowl to compare traditional self-reported ad likes with neurological immersion measurements.
5.1 Super Bowl Ads Study: Immersion vs. Likeability
- Method: Zak measured the immersion levels of 35 participants as they watched various Super Bowl ads. He then compared these measurements to USA Today’s ad likability rankings.
- Initial Finding: There was a zero correlation between reported liking and neurological immersion.
“We find a zero relationship between these hundreds of thousands of people that rank super bowl ads for how much they like them and neurologic immersion.”
— Paul Zak [09:52]
5.2 Revisiting the Study with YouTube Metrics
Realizing the discrepancy, Zak shifted focus from self-reported liking to actual behavioral outcomes measured through YouTube views and comments. The results were revealing:
- Self-Reported Liking: Negatively correlated with YouTube buzz (views and comments).
- Neurological Immersion: Positively correlated with YouTube buzz.
“Humans are very bad at explaining how they feel.”
— Paul Zak [03:07]
This indicated that while participants might not explicitly like an ad, their immersion with it drives engagement and buzz, which are critical for marketing success.
6. Case Studies: Immersive Ads That Defy Conventional Liking
6.1 Diet Coke Twisted Mango Ad
One standout example from the 2018 Super Bowl was Diet Coke's Twisted Mango commercial. Despite lacking traditional appeal elements like puppies or aesthetic beauty, it registered as the most immersive ad neurologically.
“The most immersive commercial, neurologically immersive commercial from the 2018 Super bowl was a Diet Coke ad for Twisted Mango.”
— Paul Zak [13:52]
Paradoxically, USA Today readers ranked it last for likability, highlighting the disconnect between conscious preference and subconscious engagement.
“This is not a likable commercial... but it's very valuable neurologically.”
— Paul Zak [15:10]
6.2 Amazon's Alexa Loses Her Voice
Conversely, Amazon's "Alexa Loses Her Voice" ad, which featured celebrities and humor, was deemed highly likable but scored lower on immersion metrics. The ad's excessive length (90 seconds) and focus on brand awareness rather than emotional engagement diminished its immersive quality.
“Alexa Loses Her Voice was kind of like brand awareness. Well, we are all aware of Alexa. Why you? Why are you doing brand awareness? Give me something to do.”
— Paul Zak [17:49]
7. Measurement Techniques: From Laboratories to Smartwatches
Zak's research transcended traditional laboratory settings by leveraging wearable technology to measure immersion in real-world environments. By analyzing heart rate data from devices like the Apple Watch or Samsung Galaxy Watch, Zak developed methods to estimate immersion through the interplay of dopamine and oxytocin.
“We can capture these immersion signals from the cranial nerves... from low cost fitness wearables or smartwatches.”
— Paul Zak [23:58]
This innovation enabled large-scale, real-time data collection outside controlled lab settings, offering more nuanced insights into consumer behavior.
8. Real-World Application: Predicting Sales Through Immersion
Zak applied his immersion measurements to predict sales outcomes. In collaboration with a high-end luxury retailer (anonymized for confidentiality), his team monitored the immersion levels of sales associates using smartwatches during customer interactions. The findings were compelling:
- Predictive Accuracy: They could predict customer purchasing behavior with 80% accuracy based on the sales associates' immersion levels.
- Financial Impact: A 50% increase in immersion correlated with an additional $43 spent per customer on average.
“The amount customers spent increased in line with the salesperson's immersion.”
— Phil Agnew [25:49]
9. Key Takeaways: The Disconnect Between Self-Report and Behavior
Zak's extensive research underscores a fundamental issue in traditional marketing: self-reported preferences often fail to align with actual consumer behavior. People are typically unreliable when asked to articulate their true feelings or motivations, leading marketers to miss the underlying factors that drive purchasing decisions.
“Liking to me is the dumbest question. I care that it shakes up your brain so much you go, holy crap, I'm going to try that.”
— Paul Zak [15:10]
10. Supporting Studies: Serial Position Effect in Consumer Choices
Phil Agnew references a study by Professor Timothy Wilson and Richard Niesbet to further illustrate the disconnect between self-reporting and actual preferences. Participants consistently favored the later options in a series of identical tights, despite no actual quality differences, driven by the serial position effect.
“Participants always rated the third and fourth pair of tights as significantly better than the first two... they all invented reasons why they preferred one pair over another.”
— Phil Agnew [27:21]
11. Conclusion: Embracing Neurological Insights for Effective Marketing
The episode concludes with a strong endorsement of Zak's findings, emphasizing the importance of leveraging neurological data to understand and influence consumer behavior effectively. By moving beyond superficial measures of likeability and tapping into the brain's immersive responses, marketers can craft campaigns that resonate on a deeper, more impactful level.
“What we've learned from measuring thousands of commercials is that the brain likes novelty. It's not about liking; it's about capturing attention and driving action.”
— Paul Zak [16:43]
Final Thoughts
Paul Zak's research highlights a paradigm shift in marketing strategies: prioritizing neurological immersion over traditional metrics of ad likeability. This approach not only enhances engagement and buzz but also translates into tangible sales outcomes. For marketers seeking to create impactful campaigns, understanding and applying the principles of immersion can lead to more effective and scientifically grounded strategies.
For those interested in delving deeper into this subject, Paul Zak's book "Immersion" is highly recommended.