Podcast Summary: Nudge – “The Surprising Menu Psychology Behind Five Guys’ Success”

Host: Phil Agnew
Guest: Richard Shotton (Author, Applied Behavioral Scientist)
Date: October 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores how behavioral science principles—specifically the psychology of simplicity and specialization—played a pivotal role in Five Guys' meteoric rise in the fast food industry. Phil Agnew and guest Richard Shotton break down why focusing on a pared-back menu was a game-changer for Five Guys and examine related lessons from Kraft and Starbucks. Using engaging stories, seminal research, and sharp insights, the episode shows how consumer perceptions can be shaped by how products are presented, not just what's offered.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Five Guys: The Power of Simplicity and Specialization

• Origin Story

  • Jerry Murrell gave his sons a choice: college tuition or cash to start a business. They chose business, taking inspiration from Thrasher's Fries—a boardwalk stand with a 100-yard queue that specialized only in fries.
    • [01:36] Richard Shotton: “Murrell thinks to himself, well, wait a minute, why is this brand doing so brilliantly? It's because they are specializing... sacrificing peripheral offerings.”

• Their Core Principle

  • Five Guys focused their menu strictly on burgers and fries, avoiding diversification into yogurt, salad, or chicken.
    • [03:56] Richard Shotton: “He just offers a very, very short menu. It's basically burgers and fries.”

• Psychological Science: Goal Dilution Effect

  • Research shows that when brands add more to their offering, perceived expertise and quality decreases.
    • [05:14] Richard Shotton: “We have this assumption that those who specialize are higher quality.”
  • Study (Zhang & Fishbach, 2007): Communicating just one benefit (e.g., tomatoes reduce cancer risk) is more persuasive than listing several benefits.
    • [07:05] Richard Shotton: “That second group are then asked how good are tomatoes at preventing cancer? ...they score it about 12, 13% lower.”

• Behavioral Insight

  • Consumers assume that “a jack of all trades is a master of none” and judge specialists as offering higher quality, even irrationally.
    • [07:46] Richard Shotton: “People have a rule of thumb that we can't be all things to all people.”

2. Kraft: The Danger of “Healthy” Messaging

• Expectation Shapes Experience

  • If people expect a food to be healthy, they often perceive it as tasting worse (especially in the US).
    • [09:43] Phil Agnew: “If you think food is unhealthy, you'll actually assume it tastes better.”

• Case Study: Kraft Mac & Cheese

  • Kraft wanted to make their iconic mac and cheese healthier by removing artificial additives but avoided announcing the change immediately. They switched the ingredients quietly, let consumers acclimate, and only later revealed the reformulation, showing buyers accepted the change after they had already enjoyed the product.
    • [12:11] Richard Shotton: “If they tell people they're doing that, they will create this negative perception… They wait a few months and then to a massive fanfare, they come out and say, we have just been doing the world's largest blind taste test.”

• Supporting Study

  • Lee, Frederick & Ariely (2006): Telling consumers about a strange or “off-putting” ingredient before tasting dramatically reduces preference. Revealing it after instills much less aversion.

3. Starbucks: How Scarcity and Interruption Fuel Demand

• The Pumpkin Spice Latte Strategy

  • Despite the beverage’s popularity, Starbucks removes the Pumpkin Spice Latte from the menu outside autumn. This defies typical short-term sales logic but keeps demand high by leveraging scarcity and preventing habituation (over-familiarity).
    • [16:40] Richard Shotton: “If Starbucks had behaved logically, pumpkin spice latte would be a distant memory… But what Starbucks did is take it off the menu and then they brought it back the next year and then it sold a huge amount.”

• Study on Scarcity—Gift Vouchers

  • Hsu & Ganz (2010): Shorter voucher expiration (3 weeks) led to much higher redemption (33%) than a longer expiration (2 months, only 6%). Scarcity increases motivation to act.
    • [17:55] Phil Agnew: “It showed that scarcity inspires action.”

• Interruption Prevents Habituation

  • Leif Nelson (2008): Massage chair experiment found people preferred a massage with a short interruption over an uninterrupted one—17% increase in enjoyment when a pleasurable experience is briefly paused.
    • [19:05] Richard Shotton: “By giving people less of the positive experience, you actually create a bigger impact.”

• Cadbury’s Creme Eggs

  • When Cadbury made Creme Eggs available year-round, sales dropped. Limiting availability to the Easter season restored their popularity.
    • [21:19] Phil Agnew: “The novelty wore off and fortunately Cadbury's noticed the problem. They quickly reverted the Cadbury's eggs back to seasonal availability...”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Specialization:
  • [05:14] Richard Shotton: “We have this assumption that those who specialize are higher quality.”
• On Simplicity as a Winning Strategy:
  • [04:57] Jerry Murrell: “We were pretty lucky, real lucky that we stuck with our... kept it simple.”
• On the Risks of “Healthy” Perceptions:
  • [11:03] Richard Shotton: “When brands want to communicate a health message, they are actually diminishing the taste that people experience.”
• On Scarcity Driving Action:
  • [17:55] Phil Agnew: “Scarcity inspires action.”
• On Preventing Habituation:
  • [20:25] Richard Shotton: “You stop this problem of habituation. And then when it comes back in a year's time, everyone is enthused and looking forward to it.”

Key Timestamps

• [01:36] – Thrasher's Fries inspires Five Guys to specialize
• [03:20] – Jerry Murrell recounts the Thrasher’s story
• [05:14] – Discussion of specialization psychology and goal dilution
• [07:05] – Zhang & Fishbach’s tomato study explained
• [09:43] – Expectation shapes taste; unhealthy = tastier in US
• [12:11] – Kraft’s hidden recipe change and behavioral science
• [16:40] – Starbucks’ Pumpkin Spice Latte scarcity strategy
• [17:55] – Gift voucher experiment on urgency and redemption
• [19:05] – Massage chair study on habituation & pleasure
• [21:19] – Cadbury’s failed experiment with year-round Creme Eggs

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Less is More: Consumers believe specialists deliver higher quality; extra menu options or mixed messages dilute brand strength.
• Expectations Shape Experience: Announcing health improvements can actually harm taste perceptions; stealth changes followed by positive messaging is more effective.
• Scarcity and Novelty Sustain Desire: Removing and reintroducing products prevents habituation and maintains high demand. Shortage and anticipation trump constant availability.

Behavioral science underpins marketing success—whether you're crafting a simple menu, reformulating an old classic, or planning a limited-time product.