Episode Eight: Truths and Lies

Summary

Obscurum: Episode Eight – Truths and Lies

Release Date: March 11, 2025
Host: Gabe Lenners
Series: Invasion of the Drones (Season One)

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Introduction

In Episode Eight, titled "Truths and Lies," of the investigative series Obscurum, host Gabe Lenners delves deeper into the mysterious drone sightings that have unsettled the Midwest since 2019. This episode meticulously unpacks the tangled web of possible military involvement, local government responses, and the broader implications of these unexplained aerial phenomena.

Recap of Previous Episodes

Gabe begins by revisiting the origins of the drone sightings that first emerged over Nebraska and Colorado in 2019. These unexplained aircraft have sparked a myriad of conspiracy theories, ranging from foreign espionage to secretive technological experiments. The season has thus far explored various angles, seeking to uncover the truth behind these unsettling occurrences.

Exploring Military Installations and Missile Silos

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the connection between the drone sightings and the numerous intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) silos scattered across the Great Plains. Gabe narrates his exploration of an abandoned missile site near Kimball, Nebraska, which he managed to tour with the current owners, Don and Char Woenitzer.

• Sightings Near Missile Sites:
  “With the silo near Emma and John's residence housing a nuke that could be launched at any time, I'd wondered if they'd seen an increase in military activity when the strange craft were nearby.” (Brendan Patrick Hughes, [09:56])

Gabe details the structure of these missile sites, emphasizing their robust construction designed to withstand nuclear blasts and their strategic placement next to rural farms. The juxtaposition of such powerful military installations with mysterious drone activity raises pivotal questions about their potential interrelation.

Interview with John Kharkuff – FE Warren Air Force Base

Gabe secures an interview with Lieutenant John Kharkuff, a representative from F.E. Warren Air Force Base near Cheyenne, Wyoming—the closest Air Force base to the majority of the drone sightings. Kharkuff provides an official stance on the drone incidents:

• Denial of Air Force Involvement:
  “I can confirm that the drone sightings were not related to F.E. Warren or the Air Force in any way. So that would include contractors or any other third parties...” (John Kharkuff, [18:26])

Despite these denials, Kharkuff acknowledges the presence of counter-drone technology at the base, designed to protect sensitive installations. However, he insists that these drones have never posed a threat to their facilities:

• Counter-Drone Capabilities:
  “...they did have the technology should we need to employ it. We've had that, but at no point in time did we ever need to employ it.” (John Kharkuff, [19:19])

FAA’s Role and Local Law Enforcement Responses

The episode shifts focus to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and its role—or lack thereof—in addressing the drone sightings. Maria Tremarke, a key figure involved in the investigations, criticizes the FAA's handling of the situation:

• Critique of FAA’s Effectiveness:
  “The FAA has no enforcement arm, so their capabilities to enforce their own rules is zero.” (Larison Campbell, [29:30])

Further complicating the narrative is the reaction of local law enforcement agencies. Sheriff Tom Elliott recounts a task force meeting in Brush, Colorado, where federal, state, and local officials convened to discuss the sightings. However, no substantial follow-up actions were taken:

• Lack of Action Post-Meeting:
  “There was one. Sheriff Martin took names, but no task force was actually formed. So therefore no task force was ever launched to investigate this.” (Larison Campbell, [30:37])

Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station Incident

Gabe reveals a parallel incident at the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in Arizona, where unauthorized drones were spotted flying over the facility in September 2019. These drones exhibited unusual behaviors, such as turning off spotlights upon entering restricted areas:

• Unexplained Drone Behaviors:
  “They appeared at night and it was reported that they had spotlights on while approaching the site, but turned them off after entering the security-controlled area.” (Brendan Patrick Hughes, [32:15])

Despite thorough investigations, drone operators were never identified, leaving officials and residents perplexed.

Maria Tremarke on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP)

Maria Tremarke provides her insights into the nature of the unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) associated with the drone sightings:

• Floating Technology without Propulsion:
  “There is no sign of propulsion... the ability to really just float there.” (Maria Tremarke, [23:41])

She draws parallels between these UAPs and the famous "Tic Tac" UFOs reported by the Navy, suggesting that current technological inventories cannot account for such advanced capabilities.

Challenges of Public Disclosure and Accountability

Throughout the episode, Tremarke highlights the obstacles faced in uncovering the truth, particularly concerning government transparency and accountability:

• Restrictions on Information Sharing:
  “You can't distribute it, nothing. So they also could keep everything in a file. And the only way that comes out is what they want to pull out of that file.” (Maria Tremarke, [26:21])

This withholding of information fuels public skepticism and perpetuates the mystery surrounding the drone sightings.

Conclusion: Unanswered Questions and Ongoing Investigations

Episode Eight concludes with Gabe reflecting on the myriad unanswered questions that surround the drone sightings. The apparent disconnect between local observations, military assurances, and federal agency responses leaves a significant portion of the truth shrouded in secrecy. Gabe teases the continuation of the investigation in upcoming episodes, promising to delve deeper into the enigmatic events that have gripped rural America.

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Notable Quotes

• Brendan Patrick Hughes:
  “Seeing something that helped direct a missile right next to a home was odd, but they didn't seem to mind.” ([08:52])

• Maria Tremarke:
  “Contrary to belief, it does make a noise. It's just not a noise you're going to pick up by flying a fighter jet is a slight hum on an ultrasonic mic.” ([23:41])

• John Kharkuff:
  “FE Warren does have a counter drone program. I can't go into too much specifics due to operational security...” ([18:52])

• Larison Campbell:
  “The FAA has no enforcement arm, so their capabilities to enforce their own rules is zero.” ([29:30])

Key Takeaways

• Military Installations as Potential Hubs: The proximity of drone sightings to ICBM silos suggests a possible connection between the two, though official lines deny military involvement.

• FAA’s Limited Role: The FAA’s lack of enforcement capabilities has hindered effective responses to the drone anomalies.

• Government Transparency Issues: Restrictions on information dissemination have contributed to public confusion and mistrust.

• Unexplained Technologies: The UAPs exhibit advanced behaviors and capabilities that current technological inventories cannot explain, indicating a possible leap in aerospace technology or unknown origins.

Final Thoughts

"Truths and Lies" is a compelling episode that weaves together interviews, investigative reporting, and critical analysis to explore the enigmatic drone sightings over the Midwest. As Gabe Lenners continues to peel back the layers of this mystery, listeners are left both intrigued and challenged to question the narratives presented by official sources.

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Obscurum: Invasion of the Drones continues to be available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and other major podcast platforms. Stay tuned for more revelations and investigative insights in the quest to uncover the truth behind rural America's most perplexing mysteries.

Transcript

[Kyle Tequila]

My name is Kyle Tequila, host of the shocking new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.

[Maria Tremarke]

People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[Kyle Tequila]

Kenny was a Chicago firefighter who lived a secret double life as a mafia hitman. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

He was a fricking crazy man.

[Kyle Tequila]

He was my father and I had no idea about any of this. Until now. Crook county is available now Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your pod.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast.

[Maria Tremarke]

I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell bent effort to sabotage a war.

[Maria Tremarke]

J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Listen to Divine intervent on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pippman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and stories from the frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin, legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Being a rock star is very fun.

[Holly Fry]

But helping people is way more fun.

[Bob Pittman]

And Damian Maldonado, CEO of American Financing.

[Maria Tremarke]

I figured out the formula. I just have to work hard.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Then that's magic.

[Bob Pittman]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and Magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Previously on Obscurum Invasion of the Dr. They will actually the orbs flash their lights in beat with the music, they turn red, they become violent I mean, they'll come at you real hard. I've watched a lot of UFO videos where you can hear the people who are taking the video of the ufo. You can hear them conversing on the audio track. They and the people around them are literally negotiating the meaning of what they're seeing. Rod kind of told me that he had been diagnosed with cancer and he said it wasn't a looking good. He did have a tumor. He had had that drone encounter that he was talking about at that time that was totally gone. So can I explain that medically? No, I cannot. It feels like you're driving up to that building in Stranger Things where they're doing all those test. There's this big metal door with concrete walls that are like 20 foot high. Hello. There's cameras kind of all over the place there. Peering in the direction of a tunnel on the side of a hill in the middle of nowhere. I prepared to go meters underground into a cold war era room that once housed a nuclear warhead estimated to be 20 times stronger than the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, to see if my hunch was true. Chapter 15 Buried in Plain Sight, I slowly walked up to the entrance of an intercontinental ballistic missile silo. My goal was to see how expansive these installations were and ultimately if a similar space would be able to conceal many aircraft. A quick Google search revealed these sites and the bombs locked inside of them were first built during the Cuban Missile Crisis in the 1960s and scattered throughout the Great Plains, sometimes right next to farms. The military sold a few silos that weren't in use. I tracked one down that belonged to Don and Char's Woenitzer. They'd bought an abandoned or decommissioned missile site near Kimball, Nebraska. I convinced them to take me around the property. What is this right here?

[Holly Fry]

Now this is the door that would open and they would back the missile in.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

So the missile bay is right behind this 47 ton door. Go ahead.

[Holly Fry]

Follow Don.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

We entered the structure through a large hole covered by metal mesh curtains. There was a long tube with lights illuminating a walkway. 20 to 30 yards in. I saw a second hall to the right. It felt like a narrower, darker version of a New York subway station and not the type of place I'd spend a lot of time. The crew was down that tunnel where the red phone and the launch buttons were. The missile was in a room over building over here. The purpose of the tunnel was to.

[Larison Campbell]

Separate the two buildings so the crew.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Wouldn'T get blown up when they launched. I was surprised to learn the crew actually lived where the rockets were housed. Do you know how many people used to live in here, like at one time? 5,24. Seven from Cheyenne, Zeppie Warren. Over here is the room that the missile was in. Now the missile was 85ft long, about 9 foot in diameter. It was stored in a horizontal position. The nose was down here.

[Holly Fry]

We have two buildings underground. The launch building, which is about 15,000 square feet. Command building, which is underneath that dirt.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Which is 5,000 square feet, 139,000 cubic yards of concrete designed to withstand a 1 megaton blast 1.6 miles away. Had four warheads on it, commissioned at the time of the Cuban missile crisis. We walked downstairs into what was known as the oxygen room. Down here's a large 60 foot room. They contained a 65 foot stainless steel liquid oxygen tank. And how far underground are we right now? Well, the culvert above the culvert is about 12ft to the surface. When I emerged from the tunnel, I plugged in coordinates for an active missile site I'd located not too far away. It's just crazy how unexposed they are. I turned off the highway and onto a dirt road. There was a barbed wire fence with a lock gate to my left. Inside the perimeter stood a few metal slabs with poles sticking up. I do know there are like these permanent two siding things and there's, there's some kind of cryptic kind of, some directional sorts of stuff. Kind of a creepy thing actually, that we would have it right the corner of our, of our place. As I got out of the pickup, I was approached by the owners of a nearby farmhouse. For the sake of their privacy, I called them Emma and John. It wasn't long before they showed me a cylindrical metal plate buried in their lawn only a few hundred yards from the missile site that was to set.

[Marc Seale]

Up the guidance systems. And the guidance systems on the missiles are designed to go off of true north. And at night they would go up and get their settings off the North Star. And then that's how they put in the guidance for the missiles.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Seeing something that helped direct a missile right next to a home was odd, but they didn't seem to mind. We paused for a second and looked towards the silo before walking around to the back of the farm. I was curious to hear if anybody who lived nearby had spotted the mysterious aircraft flying at night.

[Marc Seale]

Nobody ever sighted them flying over a silo. They were always different places because most of the military work, the air force stuff, is generally done at night. And so you don't, you don't see them that much, or it's done very.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Visible and you see like armored, one of those vehicles, Humvees on corners. And you might even see a helicopter in the air. And there'll be a trailer working on the ground. Yeah. At the site. So that's very visible and you know, something. Something's going on.

[Marc Seale]

When the Air Force was asked, they said, oh, we don't know nothing. Okay. With all the missile sites, they would have known something.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

With the silo near Emma and John's residence housing a nuke that could be launched at any time, I'd wondered if they'd seen an increase in military activity when the strange craft were nearby.

[Marc Seale]

Their regular routines of checking didn't increase.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

So that. That makes you think a little bit, you know, I mean, they. The assumption would be they knew something was going on because they weren't being ever vigilant of their property, you know, so they were probably.

[Marc Seale]

And law enforcement generally didn't have much of a clue whether they were told and told not to say anything or not. But, you know, even the ex sheriffs and ex deputies, they speculate the same thing, that it's military. The last. It's maybe been five years. Five to seven years. They have surveillance on all the sites. They thought when they started in the 60s that they. The fences they put around them were pressure sensitive. So if anybody messed with it, they didn't know we had tumbleweeds. And within a month they had to change their system because there'd be enough tumbleweeds blowing against them and set them off. Supposedly. If you would take a little drone and go fly it over missile site, somebody might show up and stuff like that, because I know they. A gentleman put a pivot in, ran the electric line in. He nicked the communications cable and it's pressurized. And I think they said 12 minutes. There was a chopper there.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

That seemed fast, but I knew a lot could happen in 12 minutes. Even with many government agencies publicly denying involvement in the sightings, it did seem probable that old silos and the land surrounding them could be a secure place to operate. Geico's motorcycle expertise gives me the coverage I need.

[Maria Tremarke]

Like 24.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Seven claims I'm on cloud nine. Clouds are wholly unable to support the weight of an adult human. What's happening? Furthermore, clouds are not numbered. Even if you procured a jetpack and searched, you'd find no cloud numbered nine. However, at that altitude, you'd likely befriend a flock of migrating snow geese. Geese who'd encourage you to leave your 247 GEICO motorcycle claims insurance behind as they would take you in and even share their dinner of crickets and clovers with you. Geico assumes no liability for any indigestion that may occur from a clover cricket dinner. Geico expertise for your motorcycle. It takes one guy out there to say, who's that? Kyle who thinks he can just get.

[Marc Seale]

On a microphone on a podcast and start publicizing this.

[Kyle Tequila]

From iHeart podcasts and Tenderfoot TV comes a new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old. Meet Kenny, an enforcer for the legendary Chicago outfit.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

And that was my mission, to snuff.

[Kyle Tequila]

The life out of this guy. He lived a secret double life as a firefighter paramedic for the Chicago Fire Department. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything.

[Maria Tremarke]

People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[Kyle Tequila]

Torn between two worlds. I'm covering up murders that these cops are doing.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

He was a freaking crazy man.

[Maria Tremarke]

We don't know who he is. Really.

[Kyle Tequila]

He is. My father and I had no idea about any of this until now. Welcome to Crook County. Series premiere February 11th. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo Clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Holly Fry]

Yazoo CL La eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Larison Campbell]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Holly Fry]

All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Maria Tremarke]

It was my family's mystery.

[Holly Fry]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

[Holly Fry]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo Clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Holly Fry]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Marc Seale]

Marc I'm Mark Seale.

[Nathan King]

And I'm Nathan King.

[Bob Pittman]

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

[Nathan King]

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Mark's best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birth from start to finish.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

This is really the first interview I've done in bed.

[Nathan King]

We sift through innumerable accounts.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

35 pages isn't very much.

[Nathan King]

Many of them conflicting.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

That's nonsense.

[Nathan King]

There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

They said we're finished.

[Maria Tremarke]

This is over.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

It only is not going to work.

[Kyle Tequila]

You got to get rid of those guys.

[Nathan King]

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.

[Marc Seale]

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

[Nathan King]

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Podcasts and store large numbers of drones. If there was a connection between the functioning silos and unknown aircraft, I was confident the Air Force would know what was going Chapter 16F.E. Warren use the right lane to take exit 359C onto I25 north and US 87 north toward Casper. In 1.2 miles take exit 10D onto Missile Drive toward Happy Jack Road. Two military helicopters flying right towards me on the interstate now. Helicopters flew over as I park near a guarded gate at F.E. warren. It's the closest Air force base to a majority of the sightings and located on the outskirts of Cheyenne, Wyoming. A lieutenant by the name of John Kharkuff agreed to an interview with me as a representative for the base. After a few minutes he arrived to take me to his office.

[John Kharkuff]

FE Warren originally started out as a cavalry training base, so I think at one point there were 25,000 horses here at F.E. warren and we still have some of the stables up on the north end of our base. But it eventually became an intercontinental ballistic missile, an ICBM base.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The base looked like a small town complete with brick buildings and dirt road streets. Sitting in the passenger seat of his vehicle, I noticed how clean it was. An over the top attention to detail type clean. John was definitely a type A personality.

[John Kharkuff]

So when I originally found out about FE Warren, I was a little bit mystified. I'd never heard of FE Warren, you know, never seen the base pop up on anything. So I was a little bit, you know, inquisitive as to what exactly I was I was heading into what does.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The 90th Missile Wing do specifically?

[John Kharkuff]

Yeah, so the 90th Missile Wing is made up of several groups and this includes security forces, the missileers. So the actual operators who sit in the missile capsules as well as the maintainers the administrative folks, the mission support groups, the force support. So the 90th Missile Wing encompasses all of that. And the 90th Missile Wing is the wing stationed at F.E. warren that would execute the nuclear mission that ensures that the President and his advisors or her advisors have the capability to call upon nuclear power should it be necessary.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

I didn't know how long I'd have to speak with John. I steered our conversation towards the mysterious aircraft. FE Warren has denied that these drones belong to them. Would that mean that you wouldn't have to acknowledge if a contractor outside of you would, was using those drones? Yeah.

[John Kharkuff]

So I can confirm that the drone sightings were not related to F.E. warren or the Air Force in any way. So that would include contractors or what other third parties that might be. But they were in no way, shape or form related to the Air Force.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

When it comes to the active missile silos in the area, I assume that there's some type of counter drone technology that would protect those.

[John Kharkuff]

So FE Warren does have a counter drone program. I can't go into too much specifics due to operational security, but I can say that any kind of, you know, training that we, we do do on FE Warren takes place within the confines of the base and in discussions with, with our forces in the field. You know, we can confirm that those drones were not ours. And in no time, at no time did they ever threaten any of our facilities, any of our missiles, any of our missile silos. So that, that kind of, again, put it definitely made us think about an aspect of, you know, how we, you know, how we communicate, you know, our programs to the public. It was something that some people, you know, you think of anti drone technology and you think of ray guns or whatever it is. You know, again, I can't go into specifics about how all that counter drone stuff works, but it did, you know, make us, make us, you know, I guess approach the, the drone issue in a more direct way. I can't speak of, you know, when the counter drone stuff was, was being used or wasn't being used. Although I can say that we did have the technology should we need to employ it. We've had that, but at no point in time did we ever need to employ it.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

During that January time frame, John said that the Air Force did have counter drone technology in place during the first week of 2020 when a majority of the objects were sighted. However, he didn't go into detail about counter drone surveillance at each individual silo.

[John Kharkuff]

I don't think there's a, there's A need for concern. You know, I again, I want to stay in my lane here, but, you know, I know in terms of the FAA and the other agencies that do serve to protect, you know, our community and our neighbors out in Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, you know, I do they. I know they are very, you know, on the ball in terms of what we are doing and what they are doing and how we work together in order to make sure that our community is safe. So I don't think there's a need for concern.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

No need for concern. This was a confusing statement to me. If these unknown aircraft didn't belong to the Air Force and if John, on behalf of FE Warren, could also conclude no Air Force contractors were flying them, there may be something strange flying in the vicinity of nuclear missiles and no one could pinpoint what it was. This call is now being recorded. The first time I interviewed you, I felt like you weren't giving me the full picture and clearest detail of everything you knew. Can you go into more of that now?

[Maria Tremarke]

Definitely into more of it. But in the one big issue in all of it is as far as what I can go into, what I can't, the one big one is the FAA related breaking of rules and laws.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Following my visit to FE Warren, I was able to convince Matthew Spencer to talk with me again. Do you have any way of proving that you were in Colorado during that time?

[Maria Tremarke]

Only thing would be would be the logs from the drones and that becomes an issue. I mean, that's the thing. And that's kind of why I was offered the polygraph, to avoid having to turn anything in that's gonna get me into trouble.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

What were you doing in Colorado during the time of the Colorado drone mystery?

[Maria Tremarke]

The Colorado drone mystery in that exact spot in Spa City was happening is essentially where we thought we were going to be able to catch up with what we were tracking, uap. We were not. And so as our own process entails, sometimes drones go up to tell us what we need to know if we missed it. And that's what the end of it was. We did come to the conclusion we had missed it. And what was going on with the Colorado drones. We decided to get on out of town at that time.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Now, is this the same type of craft that the Navy refers to? Is it Tic Tac that we've all seen in those videos online?

[Maria Tremarke]

Yes, this is the exact same technology. There's a particular version we were looking for, but they all match up the same. And that version is going to be that essentially there is no Sign of propulsion. You have the ability to really just float there. Contrary to belief. And what you've heard from the various encounters, it does make a noise. It's just not a noise you're going to pick up by flying a fighter jet is a slight hum on an ultrasonic mic. It really tells you a lot about what is going on inside of it. And these are the sort of things that we look for. In other words, there's nothing, physic wise, that we know of in the inventory that could do these sort of things.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

That sounds crazy. What would lead you to believe there was a Tic Tac in the vicinity of the Colorado drones?

[Maria Tremarke]

Most of what you hear and most of the objective being led right now is definitely from an adversary such as China or Russia, or if little green men, all of those dictate the story and the narrative. And that narrative would be, it could be coming from overseas or from a ship, could be coming from the sky, Mars, and it's coming down to us. But when you get into the reality of it, if it is ours, if it is us, then it has to be built somewhere and it has to be maintained somewhere. And that's gonna be in the United States over land.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

What would lead you to believe there was a UAP in the vicinity of the Colorado drones?

[Maria Tremarke]

I've been at this a long time. You know, the correlation is, yes, do I have drones? Of course, that's a part of it. In certain instances, you know, where we've seen issues with the craft, which is why you usually get a great view of it. Drones follow. So if you have something, a hypothetical, a piece could come off, you would have a stall out and you would have drones follow. We believe that that would be the method, and we believe that's probably what's going on with the larger, faster, heavier ones that seemed to show up right before we left.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

If there was a larger aircraft or some type of UAP in the vicinity of these drone like objects, I couldn't find any information that would confirm that. Matthew brought up a few of the FAA emails that Douglas Johnson had published online. He had strong words for how his correspondence with the FAA was released. When he said Agent Bumgardner, he was referencing Agent Bumberger.

[Maria Tremarke]

Michael Baumgartner is a legal hawk. If you look him up, if you research him, he's the guy that goes out to the local little airport where they got Cessnas flying from the 1960s and he watches and he writes down your tail number and he writes tickets. There's cases of it online you can find. He was sent out to write tickets. He wasn't sent out to solve the mystery. People have to understand, you know, I'm a debunker. Like I said, there were satellites in the area during that time period. There were planets. There's all sorts of stuff in the sky. And I always debunk that. And I believed a lot of it could be debunked. As far as what I think about Baumgartner is this stuff happens. You know, people always think, if we FOIA, like, we'll find answers. FOIA's not new. The paper that they released in the communication between Bum Garner to me, says at the bottom of it, you can't show anybody this. You can't distribute it, nothing. So they also could keep everything in a file. And the only way that comes out is what they want to pull out of that file. If you pull something out of that file yourself, federal charges, federal penalties. So they just happen to release some stuff from FOIA and not the other things, and then you have this narrative. And a narrative, I think, in anyone's opinion, was very negative of me.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

I gotta be honest, Matthew, that sounds like it out there. Why would Bumberger go to so much trouble to throw you under the bus?

[Maria Tremarke]

There's a narrative, and it's an FAA narrative, and that's that they know everything. They're the feds. I mean, this is the way it works. A story that a UFO or UAP was in that area is not something they want to deal with now. You're the Special Agent in charge. That was his title in this.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

This.

[Maria Tremarke]

It's on you. And he sure in heck wasn't going to let anything out that wasn't normal. Did you see one? Did you think he's right? Or do you think he should have took the guy that wanted to take a polygraph, come up there and answer some questions? He didn't want that polygraph on record.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

It wasn't my job to judge or not judge an FAA narrative. I was missing key facts. There was another person who could possibly shed new light on the FAA's response. It was a man I'd been trying to interview since day one. As the obscure sightings seemed to begin in his county, Phillips County, Colorado Sheriff Tom Elliott finally agreed to speak with me in early January. A task force meeting was held in Brush to discuss the sightings. Did you take part in this meeting and what did you learn from it?

[Larison Campbell]

I was there, and all we got was lip service from the Federal Aviation Administration. And those are the People that actually regulate these drones. What we found out is the FAA has no enforcement arm, so their capabilities to enforce their own rules is zero.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Now, Phillips County Sheriff's Office posted on Facebook on January 6, a strategy meeting was held today in Brush, Colorado with federal, state and local law enforcement agencies regarding the drones. Specifically, we are looking for the command vehicle. We are looking for a closed box trailer with antennas or large band does not belong in the area. If you see anything that resembles that or this description, please call the Phillips County Sheriff Office. Were you ever in fact looking for that specific vehicle or was that based on what was talked about at that task force?

[Larison Campbell]

Yes, two different questions there. So the question about how did we come to a description of the vehicle came from the FAA from that task force meeting. That's the description of the vehicle that they said they were looking for. They said, they said, they said at the meeting, quit looking for the drones, start looking for, for the command vehicle. And this is what you should be looking for. The second part of your question is that's the description of the vehicle. Yes, that is what we were looking for.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Has there been any follow up from that task force meeting? To the best of your knowledge, there.

[Larison Campbell]

Was never even a task force formed at the meeting. There was one. Sheriff Martin took names, but no task force was actually formed. So therefore no task force was ever never got off the ground to investigate this. This all falls back on the federal government who refused to do anything. This is a federal law violation and they should have done something about the federal law violation.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Fingers were pointing at the faa. It later came to my attention that Logan County Sheriff Dave Martin not only took names as mentioned by Sheriff Elliott, but was said to be the head of the drone task force force. He didn't want to be recorded, but told me there were no steps ever taken to form the group. FAA officials left the meeting saying they'd share information, but as I learned, there was no follow up. Was it the FAA's job to be the glue that brought this together? But more importantly, were there details FAA investigators purposely kept from collaborating agencies? I soon became aware of disturbing information which led me to research an area outside of Phoenix, Arizona. Palo Verde generates the most energy of any power producing facility in the nation. It's also the largest nuclear plant with three units. Something happened in the skies above the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station, one of America's most powerful nuclear plants. On consecutive nights in September of 2019, two months before the Northeast Colorado sightings, unauthorized drones were spotted flying over a restricted area with pressurized water reactors. These were described as large aircraft with red and white flashing lights. They appeared at night and it was reported that they had spotlights on while approaching the site, but turned them off after entering the security owner controlled area. No drone operators were found and witnesses were left scratching their heads. This discovery led me to uncover something else. An alarming trend the FAA knew of that would completely change my view of the mystery. Coming up on Obscurum Invasion of the Drones. I kind of stop at that Jewish stop sign and it stopped moving and then elevated and then it lowered itself behind a tree. I'm anxious, but I can't worry about what might happen or the consequences of revealing the truth.

[Marc Seale]

It started to go up slowly, but it kept doing it for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

This thing.

[Marc Seale]

This thing ended up being thousand thousands of feet in the air.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

It takes one guy out there to say, who's that? Kyle, who thinks he can just get.

[Marc Seale]

On a microphone on a podcast and start publicizing this.

[Kyle Tequila]

From I heart podcasts and Tenderfoot TV comes a new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old. Meet Kenny, an enforcer for the legendary Chicago outfit.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

And that was my mission, to snuff.

[Kyle Tequila]

The life out of this guy. He lived a secret double life as a firefighter paramedic for the Chicago Fire Department. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything.

[Maria Tremarke]

People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[Kyle Tequila]

Torn between two worlds. I'm covering up murders that these cops are doing.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

He was a freaking crazy man.

[Maria Tremarke]

We don't know who he is, really.

[Kyle Tequila]

He is. My father and I had no idea about any of this until now. Welcome to Crook County. Series premiere February 11th. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Holly Fry]

Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Larison Campbell]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Holly Fry]

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Maria Tremarke]

It was my family's mystery.

[Holly Fry]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

[Holly Fry]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Holly Fry]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Marc Seale]

I'm Marc Seale.

[Nathan King]

And I'm Nathan King.

[Bob Pittman]

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The five families want us to shoot that picture.

[Nathan King]

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Mark's best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birth. From start to finish, this is really.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

The first interview I've done in bed.

[Nathan King]

We sift through innumerable accounts. 35 pages isn't very much, many of them conflicting.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

That's nonsense.

[Nathan King]

There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

[Maria Tremarke]

And they said we're finished, this is over.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Not only is not gonna work, you.

[Kyle Tequila]

Gotta get rid of those guys.

[Maria Tremarke]

It's a disaster.

[Nathan King]

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.

[Marc Seale]

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

[Nathan King]

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to share my podcast with you. Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing this week I'm talking to the CEO of Moderna, Stefan Bonsell, about how he led his team through unprecedented times to create, test and distribute a COVID vaccine, all in less than a year.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

It becomes a human decision and to decide to throw by the window your.

[Bob Pittman]

Business strategy and to do what you.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Think is the right thing for the world.

[Bob Pittman]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the Magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

We want to hear from you. If you have any information surrounding the events detailed in this podcast or other obscure stories in rural America we should look into, please visit our [e-mail] and send us an email to connect with us on social media. You can follow obscurumseries and Abelung on all social platforms. Obscurum is produced by Imagine and Leonard's Entertainment for iHeartMedia. This series is written, hosted and produced by me, Gabe Leonars. It's Executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, Carl Welker, Nathan Cloke, Nikki Etor Tour in Me Additional production by Jacob Plew Music and sound effects courtesy of Epidemic Sound Brand Management in Digital design by Labyrinth Brandco Video editing by Alex Semy Kopenko this project was mixed and mastered by Jacob Plew. Special thanks to Dan Bodanski, Josh Hiller, Keaton Stortz, Bryson Keyes, Ailey Burchfield, David Wasserman, Katrina Norvell and my family. Obscurum Invasion of the Drones is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Follow now.

[Kyle Tequila]

My name is Kyle Tequila, host of the shocking new true crime podcast Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.

[Maria Tremarke]

People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[Kyle Tequila]

Kenny was a Chicago firefighter who lived a secret double life as a mafia hitman. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

He was a fricking crazy man.

[Kyle Tequila]

He was my father and I had no idea about any of this. Until now. Crook county is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast.

[Maria Tremarke]

I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots, wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell bent effort to sabotage a war.

[Maria Tremarke]

J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Listen to Divine intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Market. I'm having conversations with some folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Tarang Amin, legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

Being a rock star is very fun.

[Holly Fry]

But helping people is way more fun.

[Bob Pittman]

And Damian Maldonado, CEO of American Financing.

[Brendan Patrick Hughes]

I figured out the formula.

[Maria Tremarke]

I said have to work hard, then that's magic.

[Bob Pittman]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.