Episode Seven: The Void

Summary

OBSCURUM: Episode Seven - "The Void"

Release Date: March 4, 2025

Overview

In Episode Seven of OBSCURUM, titled "The Void," host Gabe Lenners delves deeper into the enigmatic drone sightings that have unsettled rural America since 2019. This episode focuses on the personal experiences of Rod Miller and his sister Tammy Fogg, two avid drone hunters whose relentless pursuit of the truth brings them to the heart of the mystery surrounding Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs) in the Midwest. Additionally, the episode features insights from sociologist Barry Markovsky, who examines the phenomenon through the lens of mass hysteria.

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1. Recap of Previous Episodes

Gabe Lenners begins by recapping the series' premise, reminding listeners of the surge in mysterious drone sightings over Nebraska and Colorado since 2019. He sets the stage for exploring the origins and implications of these unexplained aircraft, emphasizing the blend of conspiracy theories and hidden truths that have permeated the discourse.

2. Rod Miller’s Investigations

Rod Miller emerges as a central figure in the investigation. An ardent drone hunter, Rod employs unconventional methods to study the UAPs, including the use of a Geiger counter and an EMF (Electromagnetic Field) meter.

• Rod’s Equipment and Findings

  [04:23] Rod explains, “I use a Geiger counter, which of course when I start out is always zero. And then I also have an EMF meter. Of course it doesn't show any lights at all because there's no electricity. I mean there's nothing out there.”

  Rod’s meticulous approach highlights his dedication to uncovering the nature of these mysterious objects. His latest discovery of an ancient site in northeast Colorado becomes a focal point for increased activity and further sightings.

• Close Encounters and Anomalous Behavior

  [05:03] Rod recounts a remarkable incident: “I know one night there was 11 of the orbs that left the site. The EMF meter pegged itself, which is huge and the Geiger counter was clicking off radiation tube.”

  This encounter suggests that the orbs exhibit behaviors akin to living beings, reacting to stimuli such as light and sound. Rod describes their responsiveness to different tones, indicating a level of intelligence and communication: “They act like a living being. I mean, they show curiosity. You know, you can feel it.”

3. Personal Stories: Rod and Tammy Fogg

Rod’s commitment to his investigation is paralleled by his sister, Tammy Fogg, a registered nurse who joins him in drone hunting. Their collaboration adds depth to the narrative, showcasing the intersection of personal dedication and scientific inquiry.

• Tammy’s Encounter

  [14:36] Tammy shares a harrowing experience: “I was sent out down in a draw in the middle of a field... three triangular huge, about the size of a vehicle craft. But they did not look like anything I had ever seen from this planet.”

  Her account of the orbs' aggressive behavior and the physical effects they had on her underscores the real dangers and psychological impacts of these encounters. Despite her medical background, Tammy grapples with the inexplicable nature of these events, questioning her own perceptions and the lack of official acknowledgment.

• Health Challenges and Miraculous Recovery

  Rod reveals a personal struggle with an aggressive brain cancer diagnosis: “I had had like five heart attacks... the tumor's gone, like missing totally, like wasn't even there.”

  This miraculous recovery adds a layer of mystery, potentially linking his health issues to his encounters with the orbs. Rod muses whether divine intervention or the enigmatic nature of the UAPs played a role in his healing.

4. Expert Analysis: Mass Hysteria with Barry Markovsky

To provide a balanced perspective, Gabe interviews Barry Markovsky, Distinguished Professor Emeritus at the University of South Carolina, and a leading expert on mass hysteria.

• Defining Mass Hysteria

  [20:37] Barry explains, “Mass hysteria is a temporary phenomenon. It's spontaneous. It involves spreading fear, false beliefs within some population or group.”

  He discusses how shared beliefs and social validation can distort individual perceptions, leading groups to interpret ambiguous stimuli—like lights in the sky—as extraordinary phenomena, such as extraterrestrial craft.

• Impact on Public Perception

  [23:03] Barry elaborates on how social influences shape individual beliefs: “You're more likely to change your belief if you find that a lot of people around you believe something that you don't.”

  He highlights the malleability of memory and how collective narratives can reinforce misconceptions, suggesting that some drone sightings might be amplified by societal factors rather than actual extraterrestrial activity.

5. Theories and Investigations

Gabe explores various theories regarding the nature of the UAPs and their possible connections to military operations and missile sites.

• Government and Military Explanations

  [24:52] Aviation expert Bill Bowerly offers a perspective that ties the sightings to government activities: “Truthfully, yes, I still think it's government. Maybe they're training for future kinds of threats.”

  This theory posits that the UAPs could be advanced military drones or experimental aircraft, potentially linked to nuclear missile sites that provide secluded locations for testing and deployment.

• Local Authorities’ Stance

  Rod recounts interactions with the Kit Carson County Sheriff's Office: “When the Air Force was asked, they... we don't know nothing.”

  The lack of official information and the silence from federal agencies fuel speculation and distrust among the local population, further entrenching conspiracy theories.

6. Community and Documentation Efforts

The episode emphasizes the role of community-driven efforts in documenting and understanding the UAP phenomenon.

• Drone Intelligence Center

  Rod and Tammy are active in the Drone Intelligence Center, a social media group where enthusiasts share sightings and collaborate on investigations. Tammy describes the group’s purpose: “We got real careful on who we added to that group because we're just there to share information.”

  This community serves as a support network, allowing members to share evidence and strategies while safeguarding against external skepticism and criticism.

7. Conclusion and Ongoing Mysteries

As "The Void" draws to a close, Gabe reflects on the persistent mystery of the UAPs and the challenges faced in uncovering the truth. Despite diminishing sightings since their peak in late 2019, the phenomenon continues to affect those in the region, leaving more questions than answers.

Gabe encourages listeners to contribute their own experiences and stay engaged with the investigation, highlighting the importance of collective inquiry in unraveling the obscure truths of rural America.

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Notable Quotes

• Rod Miller ([05:35]): “I would notice that these orbs would flash lights. It's like they communicated with each other with flashing lights.”

• Sam Barry Markovsky ([20:52]): “Mass hysteria... involves spreading fear, false beliefs within some population or group. These false beliefs typically lead to irrational thoughts and irrational behavior.”

• Tammy Fogg ([14:36]): “I flipped the lights on the car and when I did that, it appeared to startle them because they started these like these all these kind of flashing lights.”

• Rod Miller ([07:45]): “The truth was outside of his battle with critics. Rod then shared that he was in a battle for something else. Time he'd been diagnosed with an aggressive type of brain cancer.”

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Final Thoughts

"The Void" masterfully intertwines personal narratives with expert analysis, painting a comprehensive picture of the ongoing UAP mystery in rural America. By highlighting the dedication of individuals like Rod and Tammy Miller and examining psychological phenomena with Barry Markovsky, Gabe Lenners ensures that listeners are both informed and engaged. This episode underscores the complexity of distinguishing fact from fiction in the realm of unexplained aerial phenomena and sets the stage for future explorations in the OBSCURUM series.

Transcript

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Last time on Obscurum. Invasion of the Drones. We track high value aerospace targets, so break down into the business world. But our main focus is to go after the UAPS that are within the news right now. That big white one looks like it's coming closer.

[Barry Markovsky]

They are all over.

[Ryan Seacrest]

There's another one right directly above me. To my. The most plausible thing I heard, though, is that it was somebody that was conducting experiments. As far as figuring out whether these things could do Perimeter surveillance or missile sites. There's actually a report that one of these mysterious crafts landed. Were there other drones there besides mine?

[Unknown]

Yeah, without a doubt.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Can I tell you whose they were? No. Do you think he's lying? Despite pushback from the FAA and helping me speak with Special Agent Michael Bumberger of the Law Enforcement Assistance Program, I figured out how to contact him directly. I never received a response. I worked other angles and one of those was to look further into what Rod Miller and his group of backcountry drone hunters were still observing months after the initial sightings. I'd soon learn that some of their revelations were much more mysterious than the FAA's silence. Chapter 13 into the Night Rod became the go to local. Everyone shared their unidentified aircraft experience experiences with the social media group he was always active in called Drone Intelligence Center. Colorado, Nebraska, Wyoming and all other states stayed the long term hub for public conversation. However, what was being talked about in Rod's separate drone hunters messenger chat remained a secret. I reconnected with Rod with the hope that after we catch up, he'd add me to the private thread.

[Rod Miller]

I use a Geiger counter, which of course when I start out is always zero. And then I also have an EMF meter. Of course it doesn't show any lights at all because there's no electricity. I mean there's nothing out there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Rod's latest process for studying the craft involved using a Geiger counter to detect radiation and an EMF meter to signal electromagnetic fields usually emitted from man made sources such as wiring. He frequented many areas to follow the objects, but his self discovered ancient site in northeast Colorado continued to be a hotbed for activity.

[Rod Miller]

I know one night there was 11 of the orbs that left the site. The EMF meter pegged itself, which is huge and the Geiger counter was clicking off radiation tube. So there's, that's just two of the things I check. You know, we don't know what else it throws off.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Rod sent me a couple videos of what he described. There wasn't a way to verify his exact location when the clip was taken, or what might be just outside of the video frame.

[Rod Miller]

I would notice that these orbs would flash lights. It's like they communicated with each other with flashing lights. So I, it got to the point where when I was at my setup that's what I would do is I would flash lights in the same patterns that they are and which would bring them in closer. And then I have tested different tones and when I play the sounds it, if it's an upbeat tempo. They will actually. The orbs flash their lights in beat with the music. I have videos to show this. If I use a different tone, that's a real peaceful, mellow tone, the orbit will just turn really pretty. Blue color, the whole thing will be blue. But if you use a base tone, they turn red. They become violent. I mean, they'll come at you real hard. They act like a living being. I mean, they show curiosity. They just show different emotions. You know, you can feel it. One time I was playing the mellow tone that turns them blue and I had one come literally right up in front of me and then it went back to the other orbs real quick. And then it came up by me and it. And it was there literally so close. I felt like I could reach out. I could actually feel some kind of a weird energy coming off of it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Rod spoke with a directness. The things he said didn't seem possible, but he pulled me into his world in a way where I found myself rooting for his story to be true. Was he just grasping for a way to connect it all? Living an adventure he'd always dreamed of? Rod was obviously driven by his family's safety and lifelong obsession with geography and ancient cultures. But the truth was outside of his battle with critics. Rod then shared that he was in a battle for something else. Time he'd been diagnosed with an aggressive type of brain cancer.

[Rod Miller]

Wasn't long after that close call, up close experience. I had had a. I've had like five heart attacks. My, it's a hereditary thing. And I plugged up again and while I was in the hospital and they brain tumor that I had was, was still there or you know, to what degree or how much longer I had to live because they had, when they diagnosed me with the brain tumor, it was the type that, you know, there wasn't nothing that they could do about it. They wanted to treat it, treat the cancer, but I wouldn't let them because they basically said it was pretty hopeless. Then I just don't. I wanted to die peacefully and not in a hospital somewhere. Long story short, the, the tumor's gone, like missing totally, like wasn't even there. I have to either tie that to, to God healing me or that close encounter, you know, with that blue bean thing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

What would you say to skeptics?

[Rod Miller]

I think humans in, in, in general, any of us, we're all fear based. I mean that's, it's just, that's what a human being is. We're fear based. Some people can, you know, there's things that will push them past that. You know, maybe it's concern, maybe it's just, you know, curiosity. There's certain things, but there's some people that really, that just remain fear based. And those people are the ones that usually that fear base leads him to denial. And I mean, I've learned that, you know, like when I take a video, if it's a big orb, I reference the moon in the video. I do everything I can because I know that skeptics are going to be strong. I know that they're going to say that's not a norm, that's the moon. So I reference the moon and then I show that orbit and I try to make it as clear, undeniable proof as I can get.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Proof is a daunting word which I was continually reminded of, especially relating to UAPs, UFOs, orbs, drones or whistleblowers. I called the Kit Carson County Sheriff's Office to see if there were recent sightings near the general location Rod described to me. A representative for the Sheriff's office stated that things seemed quiet. However, a farming family who lived nearby confirmed strange lights were still being seen.

[Tammy Fogg]

My name is Tammy Fogg and I've lived in the area for 67 years. I was born here, except when I went to college at Kumed.

[Ryan Seacrest]

At the center of Rod's inner circle was his sister Tammy. She's a registered nurse and RN administrator and chases drones with him. Rod put me in this messenger group. Are you in that group too?

[Tammy Fogg]

Yeah, it's called Drone Hunters. We got real careful on who we added to that group because we're just there to share information. We don't aren't necessarily in there for somebody to come in with big criticism. It's there you can express your ideas freely in pictures if you would like to. And if you needed help, if you were out drone watching somewhere, you know, and you had a flat tire or you thought you needed help taking some pictures, you could, you can put that on there, shoot your location and somebody will be there in a little bit. So, because my brother will go look at some of those remote. If you had a flat tire out there or something spooky happened, you'd be way out there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

The drone hunter messenger chain, which I'd finally made it into, was a mix of shaky video posts, cell phone photos of blurry lights in the sky, and commentary on the sightings and other current events. There was a definite right leaning slant to the conversations. Sometimes folks were grasping for conclusions. However, I could tell there was a common goal to seek answers instead of spreading unvalidated theories.

[Tammy Fogg]

We've studied hard on, like, the Starlink systems. We have flight radar loaded in our phones so that we don't accidentally pick up an aircraft, you know, and think that it's a drone. I mean, we're generally genuinely concerned about what's up there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Rod kind of told me that he had, like, a close encounter and he had been diagnosed with cancer, and he said it wasn't looking good. Have you talked about that with him at all?

[Tammy Fogg]

Yeah, sure. Because he, he did have, like a tumor and it was getting progressively worse. He was like, okay, I'm not going to treat this. You know, it just is what it is. He did have a heart attack, was shipped out to Greeley. He has more than one stent in his heart. They put another stent in. And so I said, rod, while you're there, he had had that drone encounter that he was talking about at that time. He said. I said, have them check. And do you know, that was totally gone. So can I explain that medically? No, I cannot.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hearing a nurse's on Rod's diagnosis added a layer of authority to his mystifying story. Like, Rod, I wanted to know if Tammy saw the unknown objects communicating with each other. Have you experienced this before?

[Tammy Fogg]

Truthfully, not so much because. Not that, just because I usually get spooked and get the heck out of there, but like at that ancient site up there, you know, he can set up and. And they seem to be, you know, just. They'll stay right there for a time that, you know, he can try light and sounds and that kind of type of thing, but he, he goes there quite often. And there are a couple older farmers out there that say they've been seeing that snake stuff for a number of years.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Since Rod's observations were anything but normal. I'd been burning to ask Tammy how her drone hunting encounters compared to his. She began telling me about a night in early 2020, right after the objects first appeared in northwest Kansas.

[Tammy Fogg]

I was sent out down in a draw in the middle of a field. Felt very confident with where I was at. I was in the car, had the windows down, and it was getting like 9, 30, 20 till 10, maybe 10. And I thought, okay, I'm not going to see nothing tonight. I'm going on home. And just about that time, down over the top into that draw came three triangular huge, about the size of a vehicle craft. But they did not look like anything I had ever seen from this planet. I flipped the lights on the car and when I did that, it appeared to startle them because they started these like these all these kind of flashing lights. And I looked my head out the window, went to take a picture and this stuff out of the one closest to me started coming out that was like this fog stuff, stuff. I inhaled it. It was like I couldn't get my breath and burnt my eyes. I reached down, started the car and took off in the car, up over the top of the thing. They backed those things up and were started to come after me as I was coming down the road at a low, like, I mean at a low level. Then I was headed back for town and then they just zipped off. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

With you being a medical professional, did you think you needed to go to the ER and have, you know, have that checked out or.

[Tammy Fogg]

Yes, I did.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You did go to the er?

[Tammy Fogg]

I did not go to the er, but I felt like I should have because what in the blue blazes was I going to tell them happened? They would have thought I was nuttier than a loon. Do you know what I mean? I did not go. Did I feel like I should have? Yeah. Did I come into the house and take an albuterol breathing treatment? Yes, I did.

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[Barry Markovsky]

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[Barry Markovsky]

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[Barry Markovsky]

My name is Barry Markovsky. My position is Distinguished Professor Emeritus at University of South Carolina in Sociology.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Barry Markofsky has a PhD from Stanford, and he's one of the nation's top experts on mass hysteria. What is mass hysteria, and how does hysteria develop around a particular event?

[Barry Markovsky]

So mass hysteria is. It's a temporary phenomenon. It's spontaneous. It involves spreading fear, false beliefs within some population or group. And those false beliefs typically lead to irrational thoughts and irrational behavior, sometimes destructive behaviors. There could be physical manifestations people could get sick or psychosomatic manifestations. And it often develops around particular events. When there's an awareness that other people are experiencing the same thing or holding the same beliefs or similar beliefs, that provides a kind of validation that further reinforces the effect. Putting this into context, I've watched a lot of UFO videos where you can hear the people who are taking the video of the ufo. You can hear them conversing on the audio track, and they and the people around them are literally negotiating the meaning of what they're seeing. To listen to them, you would think that this little light in the sky, which is often all that it is, is the most extraordinary thing they've ever seen. You're seeing in these or hearing in these videos, this contagion effect, this amplification effect, happening in real time. So, again, it's showing how, even more than the phenomenon itself, up in the sky, people are being influenced in their beliefs by the other people around them. And they will often end up concluding that they have seen an extraterrestrial vision exiting Earth or something really extraordinary like that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

If someone saw what they thought was a drone in the sky and they spoke with a separate group who saw it and thought it was a plane, would that person's interpretation of what they saw change?

[Barry Markovsky]

So you're more likely to change your belief if you find that a lot of people around you believe something that you don't. You're more likely to change your belief if the people who hold that alternative belief have some kind of authority or status in your eyes. And you're more likely to change your belief if they are socially close to you than if they're socially distant. Another interesting and related aspect of this is memory. Memory, it turns out, is a really malleable thing. And even when you've experienced something and feel that you understood what you saw, it's possible that the influence of other people, the reinterpretations that they provide you cause you to think about what you experienced in a different way. And your memory of it can actually change as your brain is filling in gaps or substituting bits of information.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I agreed memories could get blurred, but those memories I documented were tied to strong emotions, and that was key for me. Regardless of the finer details of an encounter, people never forgot how the craft made them feel. There was no doubt in my mind that even though the sightings were fewer and fewer farther between compared to when the craft first arrived in late 2019, many folks in the region continued to experience a strange phenomenon in the sky. This unsettling realization kept me thinking about a conversation I'd had with family friend and aviation expert Bill Bowerly.

[Bill Bowerly]

Truthfully, yes, I still think it's. It's government. Maybe they're training for future kinds of threats. This is how we find that threat. The technology is there. So if they're training, if this is a training squadron and they come out here to train, then okay, what are you training for that some kind of threat we're trying to stop? Maybe backpack nuke from coming into the country. Well, it got into the country. Maybe a dirty bomb, Maybe this. How do we find it? Let's just go put five hours of fuel on this airplane and just go see where they land. It may be in the middle of a isolated pasture somewhere with just a couple of trucks. It could very well be on a fenced off remote former ICBM silo that the military still has because there's a lot of those that don't have anything in them now. So if the military was launching them or somebody utilizing military facilities. Facilities, there's a good way to hide yourself.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was apparent that I needed to find out if there was any connection between nuclear missile sites in the unidentified aircraft. Coming up on Obscurum Invasion of the Drones. Do you know how many people used to live in here, like at one.

[Rod Miller]

Time time five, 247 from Cheyenne. Zeppie Warren.

[Ryan Seacrest]

When the Air Force was asked, they.

[Rod Miller]

Said, oh, we don't know nothing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay.

[Rod Miller]

With all the missile sites they would have known.

[Ryan Seacrest]

A couple of them broke off and stopped over the police station and our local FAA said we don't know anything about that. We don't show any scheduled flights. We don't show anything on our radar. We don't show anything in the air. If you have any information surrounding the events detailed in this podcast or have your own similar account, please visit our [e-mail] and share your story. You'll also find exclusive behind the scenes content on the site to connect with us on social media. You can follow obscurumseries and Abelurs on all social platforms. Obscurum is produced by Imagine and Leonhar's Entertainment for iHeartMedia. This series is written, hosted and produced, produced by me, Gabe Liners. It's executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, Carl Welker, Nathan Clokke, Nikki Etour and me. Additional production by Jacob Plew Music and sound effects courtesy of Epidemic Sound Brand Management in digital design by Labyrinth Branco Video editing by Alex Semy Kopenko. This project was mixed and mastered by Jacob Plew Special thanks to Dan Bodansky, Josh Hiller, Keaton Stortz Bryson, Kais, Ailey, Burchfield, David Wasserman, Katrina Norvell and my family Obscurum Invasion of the Drones is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Follow now. Hey, Jenice Torres here and I'm Austin Henkowitz. We're the hosts of Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio and Intuit QuickBooks.

[Tammy Fogg]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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