What does it mean to experience nature without expecting something in return? In this episode, Martina and honors undergraduate student Rowan Daugherty explore that question through the lens of environmental ethics, drawing on Rowan’s academic work and a manta swim that echoed those ideas. Together, they examine how technology and consumer expectations shape our experiences and why shifting away from a human-centered mindset matters.

In this episode:

How expectations influence our experience of nature, and what happens when we let them go
Why technology and social media subtly distance us from real connection with the natural world
The difference between a human-centered and eco-centered way of moving through the world
What environmental ethics looks like outside the classroom, in everyday choices and habits

Key Moments:

(00:00) Meeting through the manta swim

(02:51) Rethinking how we interact with nature

(04:13) An essay about "Putting the Phone Down"

(05:32) Studying law through an environmental lens

(09:50) Technology as a barrier to connection in nature

(13:39) Turning nature into an attraction

(18:09) Aldo Leopold's ecocentric vs. egocentric philosophy

(21:45) Being out of your comfort zone in nature

(24:05) Thinking about your own environmental ethic

Resources:

• Episode page and resources: oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/rowan-daugherty-technology-vs-nature

• Get Martina’s emails: oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter

• More about manta rays on mantarayadvocates.com

Watch the full video on YouTube

The expectations gap: how technology changes our relationship with nature (with Rowan Daugherty)