Ep 272: Derren Brown

Summary

Podcast Summary: Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Episode 272: Derren Brown

Introduction

In Episode 272 of Off Menu hosted by comedians Ed Gamble and James Acaster, the duo welcomes the renowned mentalist and illusionist, Derren Brown, as their special guest. The episode, released on November 20, 2024, delves deep into Brown's expertise in magic, his creative processes, and his perspectives on performing intricate tricks. The conversation seamlessly blends humor with insightful discussions, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Brown's craft.

Welcome and Setting the Scene

The episode kicks off with Gamble and Acaster introducing the unique premise of their podcast: inviting guests to design their dream meal by selecting favorite starters, main courses, side dishes, desserts, and drinks. This week's guest, Derren Brown, brings a wealth of experience and fascination with magic to the table.

James Acaster [07:14]: "Hello. Welcome, Derren Brown to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time."

Ed Gamble [07:19]: "I have been waiting to come on for some time. This is so exciting. Thank you for having me."

Discussing Derren Brown's Magic and Past Work

Gamble and Acaster express their admiration for Brown's extensive body of work, referencing his evolution from early television appearances to his acclaimed live performances. They share anecdotes about Brown's impactful tricks, highlighting his ability to blend psychological manipulation with entertainment.

James Acaster [03:22]: "I predict that our guest will be Derren Brown."

Derren Brown [03:37]: "That is a gamble."

The hosts recount a memorable trick from Brown involving mini rolls and colored envelopes, which left them both baffled and impressed by the complexity and precision required.

Ed Gamble [04:25]: "We've chosen it. But the secret ingredient which will get Derren Brown kicked out of the dream restaurant is mini rolls."

Derren Brown [05:33]: "That's scary, man."

Exploring the Dream Menu and Magical Predictions

A significant portion of the episode revolves around the creation of Brown's dream menu. Gamble and Acaster attempt to use their own magic to predict Brown's choices, leading to a playful yet intriguing exchange about the possibilities and limitations of their predictive skills.

James Acaster [06:05]: "Write it down, put it in an envelope. We don't touch it for the whole thing."

Ed Gamble [06:16]: "We'll write out his dream menu before he gets here."

As the menu is unveiled, the trio engages in a light-hearted critique of how closely their predictions matched Brown's actual selections, showcasing both the unpredictability of human preferences and the artistry behind menu design.

Derren Brown [30:00]: "Water, olive oil."

James Acaster [30:01]: "That was wrong."

Derren's Insights on Magic and Psychology

Beyond the playful banter, Brown offers profound insights into the psychological aspects of magic. He discusses the importance of understanding audience perception, the delicate balance between deception and revelation, and the ethical considerations that come with performing illusions.

Ed Gamble [09:25]: "I've got out of, you know, a couple of potentially violent situations. So, yeah, that's the confusion."

James Acaster [10:15]: "That is. I had a lot of."

Derren Brown [11:38]: "Do you think I should just do that all the time?"

Brown emphasizes the necessity of maintaining a connection with his audience, ensuring that his tricks are not just visually impressive but also mentally engaging. He shares his approach to creating memorable performances that leave a lasting impact on viewers.

Derren Brown [14:01]: "I have to find ways of sort of saying yeah, this is like, this is what the charlatans would do or this is kind of. This is stuff that's faked and I'm just going to do that now."

Personal Reflections and Anecdotes

Throughout the episode, personal stories and experiences are interwoven, illustrating Brown's journey in the world of magic and performance. He recounts moments of failure and success, highlighting the resilience required to thrive in the competitive field of illusion.

Ed Gamble [16:11]: "But it feels really plausible at the time. This works. This is a service that I'm providing."

James Acaster [45:31]: "Do you ever have that in your shows?"

Brown reflects on the challenges of live performances, sharing instances where unforeseen complications occurred and how they were handled gracefully to maintain the integrity of the show.

Ed Gamble [57:09]: "That's a good question."

Derren Brown [58:22]: "But that's."

Creating the Dream Menu

The heart of the episode lies in crafting Derren Brown's dream meal. The discussion covers each course meticulously, from the comforting aromas of a lobster risotto to the rich flavors of perfectly seasoned meatballs. The trio debates the nuances of Italian cuisine, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and personal touch in creating an ideal dining experience.

Ed Gamble [32:17]: "Well, you make a bisque to start with. So you roast or dry pan your lobster shells with Vegas and then fish stock or water and perno and tomato puree, fennel chili."

Derren Brown [44:32]: "Size is a difficult thing with meatballs. I think it's rarely the perfect size."

They explore the sensory aspects of each dish, discussing textures, flavors, and the emotional connections that food can evoke. Brown's passion for creating the perfect meatball mirrors his dedication to perfecting his craft in magic.

Ed Gamble [45:06]: "A nice, nice round, strawberry sized."

James Acaster [45:31]: "Before you've even tried it."

Challenges and Experiences in Magic

The conversation shifts towards the intricacies of performing magic tricks, particularly those that involve audience participation. Brown shares his strategies for managing unexpected reactions and ensuring that each performance remains engaging and seamless.

Ed Gamble [57:40]: "People almost want to see you mess at least one thing up?"

Derren Brown [58:22]: "And people need something to compare it to."

He discusses the concept of “main character syndrome,” where performers sometimes struggle with balancing their role and maintaining audience interest. Brown’s ability to navigate these challenges underscores his expertise and dedication to his art.

James Acaster [65:23]: "What happens if somebody says it? Do you just cut it dead? Get out."

Ed Gamble [76:17]: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine."

Conclusion and Farewell

As the episode draws to a close, Gamble and Acaster reflect on the dynamic exchange with Derren Brown, appreciating the blend of humor and depth that characterized their conversation. Brown's contributions not only enriched the discussion but also provided listeners with valuable insights into the world of magic and illusion.

James Acaster [83:13]: "That’s pretty impressive that we predicted his entire meal."

Derren Brown [84:15]: "Thank you so much to Darren for coming on the podcast. We will see you again soon."

The hosts express their gratitude to Brown, emphasizing the memorable experience and hinting at future collaborations. The episode wraps up with a light-hearted exchange, leaving listeners eager for upcoming episodes and specials.

Notable Quotes

1. James Acaster [03:22]: "I predict that our guest will be Derren Brown."

2. Derren Brown [05:33]: "That's scary, man."

3. Ed Gamble [09:25]: "I've got out of, you know, a couple of potentially violent situations. So, yeah, that's the confusion."

4. Derren Brown [14:01]: "I have to find ways of sort of saying yeah, this is like, this is what the charlatans would do or this is kind of. This is stuff that's faked and I'm just going to do that now."

5. Ed Gamble [45:06]: "A nice, nice round, strawberry sized."

6. James Acaster [83:13]: "That’s pretty impressive that we predicted his entire meal."

Final Thoughts

Episode 272 of Off Menu offers a captivating blend of comedy, magic, and culinary exploration. Derren Brown’s participation enriches the dialogue, providing listeners with an engaging narrative that bridges the gap between illusion and the art of crafting a perfect meal. Gamble and Acaster’s ability to interweave humor with meaningful conversation makes this episode a standout installment in the series.

Transcript

[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

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[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

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[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

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[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

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[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

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[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

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[James Acaster]

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[Derren Brown]

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[James Acaster]

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[Derren Brown]

Welcome to the Off Menu podcast. Peeling the carrot of conversation. Ooh, carrots.

[James Acaster]

Just peeling a carrot.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, Just raw carrot.

[James Acaster]

Having a raw carrot. Like Robert Popper. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

It's the final episode of the series.

[James Acaster]

The final one, but not the final one ever, I predict.

[Derren Brown]

God, no.

[James Acaster]

That is a gamble. My name is James Acres and this is the off menu podcast. In every single week, we invite in a guest for our dream restaurant and ask them their favorite ever. Start a main course, dessert side dish and drink, not in that order. And this week, I predict that our guest will be Devin Brown.

[Derren Brown]

Lovely bit of business from you there, James.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, pretty good. People didn't see it, but I put my fingers to my temples when I predicted it. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Like a mentalist.

[James Acaster]

Like a mentalist. I am a bloody mentalist, mate. Ask my mates.

[Derren Brown]

I'm your mates.

[James Acaster]

That's a gamble.

[Derren Brown]

I'm a gamble. That's James Acaster. Welcome to the off menu podcast. We're excited to talk to our very special guest, the wonderful Derren Brown Treasure. National treasure.

[James Acaster]

It's a national treasure. And you know, we grew up watching Derren Brown.

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

And I think it's similar feeling to when we had Louis Farou on, if I remember them, you know, arriving on the scene. The TV scene.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Watching their early stuff and watching it right through to the modern day, I feel like I've watched everything they've done.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. So evolved amazingly as well.

[James Acaster]

It's just evolved.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. Incredible live shows as well. Yeah. Very excited to have Darren on Benito.

[James Acaster]

This is. You know, obviously Benito doesn't talk on the podcast, but I just think the listener should know he loves magic. That's why he's called the Great Bonito, because he was a magician when he was a little boy. Yeah. And he loves Derren Brown. Yes. So, you know, I think it's just good knowing that for this episode how much Benito's loving it.

[Derren Brown]

So Benito will hate it. If we have to ask Derren Brown.

[James Acaster]

To leave the restaurant, he would hate it. And we've chose a very. Well, we explain why we've chosen it. Yeah. But the secret ingredient which will get Devin Brown kicked out of the dream restaurant is mini rolls. I can't figure out how he did it. It was a trick, I guess. I guess you'd call it a trick.

[Derren Brown]

A magic trick, I guess.

[James Acaster]

You Call it a magic trick with the League of Gentlemen, all four of them. And there's a whole bunch of different moving parts to the trick. But they basically come in the room, they each pick a mini roll each off of the plinth. The last person has to take two. Cause there's one extra. They all sit down on some chairs randomly. Just says, sit wherever you like. Then he mixes some envelopes up on the table, says, all pick an envelope. And then they open their envelopes and their envelopes each say, you will pick. And then a color. Different color.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

And then he says, each of you reach under your seats and they've all got a piece of card that corresponds to the color. So that's bonkers. And then that could have just been the trick. And I would have been like, that's pretty impressive because that seemed random.

[Derren Brown]

And then he gets Explain the whole trick.

[James Acaster]

And then he gets them to open the mini rolls and they all eat their mini rolls. And then there's that one spare one that was left. And then he's like, open that one. And he gives them some protective gloves. And then they open it. And there's a razor blade in it.

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

Could have killed someone.

[Derren Brown]

That's scary, man.

[James Acaster]

It's scary. I always think about it. I was thinking, I don't know how we did any of that.

[Derren Brown]

The thing is, James, I know we're going to pick. We're picking mini rolls as a secret ingredient, but I know you really want to talk to Darren Brown about that mini rolls thing, so that feels unfair.

[James Acaster]

Well, I'll wait until the end.

[Derren Brown]

Okay.

[James Acaster]

I'll wait until after we've done dessert.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. Okay.

[James Acaster]

And I'll say, deal. How'd you do that mini rolls bit?

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

But also, I want to do a magic trick on him.

[Derren Brown]

Okay.

[James Acaster]

I love it when he does predictions.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

I think we should predict his dream menu.

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

Write it down, put it in an envelope.

[Derren Brown]

We'll do that.

[James Acaster]

Put it in the middle of the table. We don't touch it for the whole thing. Yeah. At the end, we get him to open it. We don't touch it. Yeah. And then we can see if we predicted his dream menu.

[Derren Brown]

We'll do that. We'll write out his dream menu before he gets here.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Magic trick.

[Derren Brown]

It's going to blow it from.

[James Acaster]

We got. Because he doesn't know Bonito is a magician.

[Derren Brown]

No.

[James Acaster]

So we know what we're doing.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. You know what you're doing, right, Benito?

[James Acaster]

Benito knows what he's doing. He's got the magic so hopefully he won't choose mini roles because otherwise we won't be able to do the magic trick at the end.

[Derren Brown]

No.

[James Acaster]

Or maybe the envelope will say you will get kicked out.

[Derren Brown]

Also, I really want to speak to Derren Brown so I hope he doesn't get kicked out.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah, maybe if he does get kicked out, we'll just rerecord this bit and say it was something else. Say it was radishes or something.

[Derren Brown]

Tickets for Darren's next show are on sale [e-mail] he doesn't need our help.

[James Acaster]

He doesn't need our help. But, you know, maybe you do the listener. Maybe you need our help in order to get the tickets before everyone else.

[Derren Brown]

Yes. I predict you will get the tickets.

[James Acaster]

I predict some of you will get the tickets.

[Derren Brown]

This is the off menu menu of Derren Brown. Welcome, Darren, to the Dream Restaurant.

[James Acaster]

Hello. Welcome, Derren Brown to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time.

[Ed Gamble]

I have been waiting to come on for some time. This is so exciting. Thank you for having me.

[James Acaster]

We're very excited.

[Derren Brown]

We're very excited.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm very excited.

[Derren Brown]

Although what, what I sensed with your genie explosion there. Yeah, you sort of held it back a little bit.

[James Acaster]

No, I didn't, did I?

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Well, I've got a keburp trapped here and I didn't want to burp at Darren.

[Ed Gamble]

No, that would be an uncomfortable way of starting. Not interview. Chat.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah, chat. Yeah, lovely chat. And it's quite rude to start. I think I'd have to just like excuse myself and just let you two chat, leave the room.

[Derren Brown]

And Darren is excited to be here and I think that would have maybe killed the vibe straight away if James had burped.

[Ed Gamble]

It would have just started things off on a slightly off note. But you could have stopped and started again because it's so early in the chat.

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, it's early enough in the chat.

[Derren Brown]

It's early in the chat.

[James Acaster]

Do you like chats in general?

[Ed Gamble]

You're a good chat. I like a chat, yeah. I like a chat. This is. This is very nice. I've listened to many of your chats in the car. You're my. You're my go to. In the car chat. So this is very. It's very lovely being here in the actual room or it happens.

[James Acaster]

Yes. Now, do you want to, like. Some people like to imagine the Dream Restaurant and what it looks like.

[Ed Gamble]

I didn't imagine this.

[James Acaster]

You wouldn't imagine this.

[Ed Gamble]

I didn't quite imagine this. It's an enormous grand. Well, it's like the foy of a very expensive hotel, isn't it? Is that how you describe it?

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so.

[Ed Gamble]

It's gorgeous. Thank you for having me.

[James Acaster]

When we ask people to imagine that, you probably get a lot of questions like this from us because we haven't had anyone in your line of work on the podcast before. It's very exciting for us having Mentalist on the podcast now, when we ask people when they come on, what's your dream restaurant? And they give an answer. If you heard those answers, would you be able to say what that says about them?

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, I suppose so. A little bit, yeah. I never do this stuff in real life. I kind of like. It's become a real. Sort of like, it would be exhausting to go around being that guy.

[James Acaster]

Yes.

[Ed Gamble]

In real life. And also, I'm quite. Over the years, got quite interested in stoicism and the whole thing of stoicism, you know, not to try and control the things that are outside of your control. And yet that's exactly what my job is. So. Yeah, probably with a bit of thought, but I try not to use my magical skills in everyday life.

[Derren Brown]

But, I mean, you're someone who likes to chat, famously love a chat. Do you feel like when you're chatting to someone for the first time, are they constantly on guard? As if you are trying to.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. I had a friend who's now a very good friend, who actually I'm seeing immediately after this podcast, and I found out quite a way into our relationship, that it was a good few times of us meeting before he could actually just relax and have a. A normal chat like this.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Because he thought I was constantly doing. I don't know what people say. I don't know what it is that.

[Derren Brown]

He'D climbed into his brain.

[Ed Gamble]

Climbing into his brain and judging or whatever. Yeah, all that stuff.

[James Acaster]

I really.

[Ed Gamble]

I really don't. I'm very.

[Derren Brown]

No, but I mean, it's a compliment to your work is. You know, the work's excellent. So.

[James Acaster]

Well, it's like we always get. Yeah. With people. Those guys, like, probably going to put this in your act, aren't you? And we're not. And we're not thinking that about them at all. But with you, it must be a much more extreme version of that of like, you're probably going to make me kill Stephen Fry.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. That is. I had a lot of. I think pretty much every time I. If I go into a shop and ask how much something Is I get a lot of. Oh, you should know, shouldn't you? Oh, yeah, that's. I've lived with that one for a very long time.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. That's a. That's a pretty standard response, isn't it?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. What about. To anyone?

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, to anyone.

[Ed Gamble]

That's just rude.

[James Acaster]

You should know. Yeah. What the hell didn't you do when you went in and you. And you tricked them into thinking the price was less? Have you done that, or am I making stuff up in my head now?

[Ed Gamble]

No, no, that's sort of thing I would have done. I was paying stuff with paper.

[James Acaster]

Yes.

[Ed Gamble]

In New York and seeing how long I could do that for, which I laugh. Yeah. I got away with that for some time. If you kind of do it confidently enough, I think it must have felt like they'd missed something. And I think that's quite an interesting space when you just sort of feel bewildered and like you've slightly missed something and you're not. And you. It's like if somebody comes up to you in the street and says, you know, it's not 20 to 4, your reaction isn't to go, yeah, I know, it's half seven or whatever. You sort of feel like you've missed something. And it's a very, very powerful place to put people in. If you like, you know, if you're. Someone's aggressive to you in the street. I mean, if they're running at you with a knife, it's different. But if they're, like, intimidating you and you come out with that sort of stuff, or come out with a song lyric or something, it completely changes the dynamic and undoes their feeling of power. And I've got out of, you know, a couple of potentially violent situations. So, yeah, that's the confusion.

[James Acaster]

I thought, on the Tube the other day, I did that. There was a lady on our carriage who was yelling at everyone very, very loudly about how we're all going to die one day and we're gonna go to hell if we don't accept Jesus. And I was standing up to leave and she was shouting it directed at me.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

And I just went, is this the right train for Wilson Green or not? Do you know, to her? And she just looked at me like, what the f. And then I just walked off and she was there in silence. I was like, that seems like a good way of dealing with it.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Ask them something normal. And they're like, jesus said I should help this person, but I don't. I want to yell at them.

[Ed Gamble]

Did she answer the question? Did she answer the question?

[James Acaster]

No. She just stared at me like I was mad.

[Derren Brown]

Well, you suddenly brought her into normal society. What she should be doing on a tube.

[James Acaster]

Right.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Do you know if it's the right trait? Right.

[Derren Brown]

That was good, actually.

[James Acaster]

That's quite pleased.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, excellent. I was thinking a song lyric is a good one as well. If you've got something up your sleeve that you can just go into confidently as if. Yeah, it used to make sense, just not in context with the situation.

[James Acaster]

What's. What's your go to song lyric for the further.

[Ed Gamble]

My go to phrase is the wall outside my house isn't four foot high. I don't know, I never. I just thought a song lyric was an easy thing to say to somebody if you. If you rather. But yeah, that's. That's my. That's my go to. It works. Is that from a song that's not a song? No.

[Derren Brown]

It should be a good song.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

You say you don't really think in those terms all the time. You spend a lot of your time doing painting.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, I've sort of. I've taken a bit of. A bit of time off. At least as we're recording this, I've had a chunk of time off. Probably by the time this goes out, I shall be touring. But I've been painting at home. I paint portraits and I put them on my website and sometimes people buy them and put them on their walls and things, which is nice. So that's a really lovely. That's. That's kind of what I do in my. That's what I do in my real life, as opposed to controlling people. But I am writing. Yeah. Starting to get my head around a new tour for next year. Can I say the title? Because I only know the title. It's called Only Human and as we talk now, Only Human is only a title. I haven't written a word of it. And you must have had this situation yourself where you've. It's out there being marketed and people are buying tickets, perhaps, and you have no idea what the first. And people say, oh, I've got a ticket on there on the first night, I'm in the front row and you just. I haven't got a clue.

[Derren Brown]

You want to go. You've done more for this show than I have.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, exactly. I've still got used to it, over 20 years of doing it. But it's always a little odd.

[Derren Brown]

Do you have that panic when there's nothing or do you know the rhythm of building a show so much now that you just know it's going to be fine.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, exactly. It's that I've sort of. Yeah, we have a, of writing and then a month of rehearsing and then it starts and it's the sort of thing. And I guess with stand up, I guess what with any, even just a play you expect to change a lot once you get it on his feet. But I mean I really don't know what will work just technically what will work until there's an audience because a lot of the stuff I do needs a thousand people to watch it because then they're only going to work with maybe a few percent of that. So like there's just no way of knowing. So it's always a nervous start. But yeah, that, that rhythm of making it and just going through the first couple of weeks of one of the shows Miracle was faith healing in the second half. But every time you, if you go and see a faith healer, you know, there's evangelical types, you're going there as a believer. And I knew my audiences would be like hey, you know, not believe any of it and not be ready for it. Not be, not have that psychological preparation for it or anything. So yeah, it can be a bit nerve wracking at the start.

[James Acaster]

Do you then have to re engineer how you. I mean I know on these things you can't really like reveal how you do these things but like do you have to like go okay, that's how I'm presenting it. But I'm going to try and like have to trick them a different way because they're different.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, exactly. Try and like yeah, you have to. Well I have to not you so much but I have to find ways of sort of saying yeah, this is like, this is what the charlatans would do or this is kind of. This is stuff that's faked and I'm just going to do that now. Like you have to kind of set a certain parameters around it I guess. So people, people are on side. But I was mad actually that one I remember in the first week somebody came up and they'd been paralyzed down their left hand side of their body since they were a kid. And she was late in her 40s and she's in floods of tears because she can move her arm like for the first time. And I haven't done anything other than just, you know, words but just that the adrenaline of the situation and the kind of, it's the psychological component of suffering like nothing's changed. If you X rayed her before and after. Clearly nothing's changed, but yet her whole relationship to this pain that she'd lived with had just massively altered. So it was. That was. That was an amazing show to do, actually, night to night. Just the sort of things that people would respond to after that though.

[Derren Brown]

Do you think I should just do that all the time?

[Ed Gamble]

I did, yeah, I really did.

[James Acaster]

I thought.

[Ed Gamble]

And I could do it in a secular way, like I could say this is just what it is. And there's no. I could say all of the things I just said to you, but I could probably pack out a stadium doing that. And then I realized that's how you start to go.

[Derren Brown]

That's mad.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

But it feels really plausible at the time. This works. This is a service that I'm providing.

[James Acaster]

I'll be one of the good ones.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, I'll be one of the really good ones. Yeah, yeah.

[Derren Brown]

I've seen way more adverts for things like that on the side of buses now, like the O2 arena, like big church meetings and stuff. Yeah, we've seen loads of adverts for it and it's always the shiniest looking men.

[Ed Gamble]

Very shiny. Yeah, really shiny. A lot of white suits. And I've been to a few of those things sort of incognito. And it is amazing what a weird world you're stepping into because it is not to offend anyone that's into this kind of thing, but if you're as an outsider sitting there, it's a weird mix of sort of amazing and kind of disgusting at the same time. Just it's a bit. Which is, you know, it's a strange, you know, the Venn diagram of those emotions. It's odd to be in the middle of that, but it. Because it's such a closed world and they really go for it. And I remember, you know, seeing some poor kid, like a six year old girl on the stage being exorcised of demons and the adrenaline and the whole thing of it was sort of amazing, but it was also kind of really gross at the same time as well. So, yeah, it was a very odd, odd world.

[James Acaster]

And when you go to that, are you like, are there certain things that you're watching and going, oh, I could incorporate that into what I'm doing? Or are you going just to kind.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, exactly what I was doing. I was kind of researching and sat there with glasses on and a baseball cap trying not to be noticed.

[James Acaster]

Well, you've already noticed but you haven't spoke to us about it. But for the listener, I don't think.

[Derren Brown]

You weren't here when me and Derren walked into the studio.

[James Acaster]

Yes.

[Derren Brown]

He saw what we're about to describe and went, all right, there's an envelope.

[Ed Gamble]

That says prediction on it and a pen. We would like you on the table.

[James Acaster]

Please, Dylan, to sign across the sealed bit of the envelope on the back. We've made a prediction that we will reveal at the end of the podcast.

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, okay. That's exciting.

[James Acaster]

Across it. Yeah. So we can't do anything with it.

[Derren Brown]

Yes, so we can't.

[James Acaster]

You know what? You can put it wherever you like as well. You don't have to put it in front of you.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm putting it in front of me, so you don't.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah, put it right there.

[Ed Gamble]

Wow. You can do it on me.

[Derren Brown]

Good, isn't it?

[James Acaster]

Pretty good.

[Derren Brown]

We don't do this for everyone.

[Ed Gamble]

No.

[James Acaster]

Well, I wouldn't make for anyone else.

[Ed Gamble]

I've never noticed this in the podcast.

[James Acaster]

We always start with still love, spark the water. Damon, do you have a preference?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, well, sort of. So I. I don't have any very strong feelings about it, but I do like a. I like a San Pellegrino. San Pellegrino, as you know, is kind of soft and kind of. But, yeah, I don't like that kind of aggressive bubbly because, you know, it should be a simple act of hydration, not a surprise sneezing fit, which is. Yeah. Where it goes. So, yeah, I don't mind too much, but I think I'd probably go. I would probably go dill and not too cold. And I don't like the jugs that are full of ice and lemon because they plop in your drink and. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Is it the. Is it the plopping that you don't like?

[Ed Gamble]

It's the plopping, yeah. It's. It's really unnecessary. And also, I've got so to like, you know, warming up and things before shows and you know what it's like. You don't want cold water for that because it's kind of shocked your throat. So I've got. I quite like a sort of tepid water like Ben's given me here. Supplies your guests a kind of room temperature effort. Minimal effort.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, it is. To be fair, there's nothing plopping in your drink.

[Ed Gamble]

I don't get offered a choice of still or sparkling.

[James Acaster]

No.

[Derren Brown]

No. That's weird, isn't it, that we don't offer a guest the choice of still or sparkling in real life only.

[Ed Gamble]

It's all fake.

[James Acaster]

That is weird, actually. I've never thought about that. Yeah, but it is weird that we just give you some tap water and then we say, would you like still or sparkling?

[Derren Brown]

As a hypothetical, We've not talked about the plopping a lot before.

[James Acaster]

We've not talked about how much it plops when there's stuff in, especially the.

[Derren Brown]

Ice, and when ice gets caught in, like, the lip of a jug and you're not sure when it's going to plop in, but it always pops in at the least convenient moment.

[Ed Gamble]

Well, and also it sort of diverts the water stream. And then someone gets the lemon, and then no one else has got any lemon. Yeah, I. Yeah, that's all. That's all really annoying.

[Derren Brown]

But you should get the lemon because you're.

[Ed Gamble]

Darren Brown should get the lemon.

[James Acaster]

You should know how to get it. Every time.

[Ed Gamble]

I always reach in. Just take it. That's kind of a restaurant thing, isn't it? There are many restaurant. Well, not many. A few restaurant things I don't. I don't care for, and that's certainly one of them.

[Derren Brown]

Do you eat out a lot?

[Ed Gamble]

I do, yeah. I like food. I'm definitely a foodie. But I actually decided to opt for a sort of home restaurant situation for today. Nice. I just. I don't like it when waiters point at your food. I don't like it when they get really close with their finger. Maybe this is just like a nicer restaurant thing, but has anybody else brought this one up?

[James Acaster]

No, no, no.

[Derren Brown]

I'm not sure.

[James Acaster]

We're not at the pointing.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Okay. All right. I'm gonna work alphabetically through my. So, yeah, that thing with the finger, when they come in, they go, this is a carrot. And this is. And they're pointing, and they're not actually touching the food because you can slide a sheet of paper between their fingers to prove it. But that's. That's. That's an annoying habit that I don't like. It's sort of like. It's like. It's like operation. Yeah, it's like that.

[Derren Brown]

Where they hover it just above.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Have you ever been tempted to get your plate and just move it up really quickly so their finger goes right in your finger?

[Ed Gamble]

You have to grab the whole table. No, you could do the whole table. You'd grab the plate, lift. And I haven't done that. But that would defeat the point because contamination is the risk.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, but then you get a new one.

[Ed Gamble]

Right, but they'd be. So would they give you a New one. If you take love into their finger.

[James Acaster]

I'll tell you who would struggle with that. Martin Freeman. He's very weak. He can't even lift a plate.

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, he was on my show being weak. I said, I thought you were just being mean about him.

[James Acaster]

No, no, Darren Brown got. Got him to lift a plate. Couldn't lift the plate.

[Derren Brown]

You can just say Darren when he's in the room. James Brown put a phone on the.

[James Acaster]

Back of his neck. He told him all stuff about crystals. He said this really power. He said, this is God.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

He said, martin, this is a really powerful phone.

[Ed Gamble]

And then he couldn't lift the things up.

[James Acaster]

He couldn't lift stuff up. He couldn't lift a pencil up.

[Ed Gamble]

That's right.

[James Acaster]

He couldn't lift a plate up. It was embarrassing. It's a plate with, like a sandwich on it.

[Ed Gamble]

That's right. God, yes. He's a nice man.

[James Acaster]

We've watched all your stuff.

[Ed Gamble]

You have done your research.

[James Acaster]

We know it all. But, like, yeah, I mean, when you do something like that with someone like Martin Freeman, are you, like, man, you're gonna. I'm gonna make you look so weak on tv. Are you loving it?

[Ed Gamble]

I don't think anyone remembers that, apart from the fact he is brilliant. But I think. I don't think anyone's ever mentioned the making Martin Freeman weak skit. That's very. That's very niche.

[James Acaster]

It's a good one.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, that's great.

[James Acaster]

That's a good one.

[Ed Gamble]

Maybe he mentions it. Maybe he mentions it.

[James Acaster]

I think we had him on the podcast. Maybe we did bring it up. I don't know if we brought it up or not.

[Ed Gamble]

He was very well dressed. Yeah, very well dressed.

[James Acaster]

It was during lockdowns on Zoom. Still look pretty good up, but I.

[Derren Brown]

Like that your interpretation of it is. Wasn't Martin Freeman embarrassed when he came out and said he was weak? But he probably just thought, oh, I'm on a Darren Brown show and Darren's done a trick on me.

[James Acaster]

No, because when Devin told him all the stuff. When Devin was like, all that stuff I told you was nonsense, by the way. You could tell he was like, I'm just a weak man in his eyes. He was like, oh, no. You've given him a whole spiel about how the energy in crystals is the same as our energy in crystals.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm really trying to remember what it was. It was so long ago.

[James Acaster]

The vibrations in the phones are the same as the vibrations in the crystals. Going to put it on the back of your neck now. Martin, now try and lift this. It can't lift a plate. Oh, fool. He can't lift a pen.

[Ed Gamble]

Ultimately, I'm cleverer than you is the bottom line of anything I do.

[James Acaster]

That's the take home. Yeah, yeah, that's the take home. Especially for Martin Freeman.

[Ed Gamble]

Stronger than my. Stronger man than you.

[James Acaster]

Popped up, bread pops up. Bread popped up, bread bleed.

[Ed Gamble]

Jesus, the bread. I'm going for the. There's a. There's a group I used to live not far from Dalston and there is a place they called the Dusty Knuckle and it's. Do you know it?

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

And I found out many years later that they employ. I think it's people, ex prisoners, perhaps. And so. But which, given it's got a slightly charitable edge to it, you might expect that to sort of take the edge off the quality of the bread, if anything. But it doesn't.

[Derren Brown]

The bread's amazing. Still. Bread focused and charity focused.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, exactly. So I fell in love with that when I lived in London. Haven't had it for a while, but there's sourdough of late, I've discovered. I've been in Bristol a lot recently and Heart's Bakery in Bristol also does a very good. And also Reg the Veg, which is the world's greatest. Reg the Veg.

[Derren Brown]

Yes, Reg the Veg is. Heart's. The one that's under, like, Temple meats. You come out and go down there.

[Ed Gamble]

Phenomenal place, Bristol, As I often do. That is definitely, really, really good.

[Derren Brown]

Great sausage rolls.

[Ed Gamble]

Very good sausage rolls.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. I love that place.

[Ed Gamble]

It's brilliant. Oh, there you go. There you go. So, yeah, I'd go for a really good sourdough.

[Derren Brown]

Nice sourdough, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

It's sort of the hipster of the bread bowl, isn't it? I sort of hate myself saying it.

[Derren Brown]

But it is tasty, though, isn't it? That's the thing. It is butter.

[Ed Gamble]

Warm with butter.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

None of the oil. Nonsense. Yeah, yeah. Warm and butter. A little bit of salt. Cracked salt and that. Lovely. I never know whether when it's warm, you feel they've just cooked it. It probably isn't. They probably just stick it in the microwave for a bit or warm it up.

[James Acaster]

But, yeah, for the dream, you want it out, you know, just cooked. Right.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

We won't microwave it in the dream restaurant.

[Ed Gamble]

No, no, you wouldn't do that. There wouldn't be a microwave in the dream.

[James Acaster]

This is all. All bread is fresh out the oven. Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Wow.

[James Acaster]

Have you ever baked yourself?

[Ed Gamble]

No, not myself.

[Derren Brown]

That's the next TV show.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, that's the finale. You're still right in this show, this live show finale. You bake yourself.

[Ed Gamble]

I bake myself.

[James Acaster]

You bake yourself.

[Ed Gamble]

I tried to. I had the lockdown thing. I tried it. Like, I did like a lemon drizzle, a couple of things.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

And then that was. That was it. Did you. Did you embrace.

[Derren Brown]

Didn't do any baking. Realized very quickly that shops were still open and stuff.

[James Acaster]

You could.

[Derren Brown]

You could go and get a loaf of bread.

[Ed Gamble]

You could buy your own way easier scones.

[James Acaster]

You mainly did barbecuing.

[Derren Brown]

I did a lot of barbecue.

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, that's nice.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm making rotisserie chicken quite a lot at the moment. I've got rotisserie in my new oven.

[Derren Brown]

Nice.

[Ed Gamble]

That's nice.

[James Acaster]

That is fun. Do you find. I would find it very easy to just watch it?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah. You do. You put the light on. You just sit and sit and watch it. Grab a stool or a cushion and listen.

[James Acaster]

I don't want to keep on chipping in ideas for your new shirt, but you got to find new ways of hypnotizing people. Watch a rotisserie chicken. You go into a trance.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. Yeah, yeah. That's not a toy, is it? Yeah. Okay. Brilliant. Brilliant idea.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

A giant. Giant chicken. Clearly fake, but a giant chicken on stage, rotating.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Okay.

[James Acaster]

And they get hypnotized. And then when they're hypnotized, you swap them with the chicken, and then they wake up and they're spinning on the spit, and you're like.

[Ed Gamble]

And is it all chickens in the audience now? The audience is for the chicken, but the chickens. Headless because.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

How are they watching? You haven't thought this through?

[James Acaster]

No, I haven't thought it through. They're headless at first, then you restore the heads. I love.

[Ed Gamble]

As we're talking, Ben's just like making.

[James Acaster]

Ben's writing every time Ben writes stuff down, you know?

[Derren Brown]

Well, no, Ben's probably writing down the idea for the trick and then he's going to do it himself.

[James Acaster]

Ben used to be a magician when he was a little boy. It's why his nickname is the Great Bonito, because he called himself the Great Bonito. He had a waistcoat and a magic box and everything and would put on magic tricks in the living room, call himself the Great Bonito. So he probably is writing down ideas for his magic show silently. Do you ever have that in your shows? Can you ever look out and spot a magician in the audience? Like a fellow and go, oh, they're watching this differently.

[Ed Gamble]

And I'm not sure they make notes like Ben does. Yeah, yeah. Gags and things and they write them down. It's a little bit, A little bit annoying.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. A little bit irritating maybe. Sometimes you look out into the audience and there's a, you know, evangelist preacher doing the opposite of what you do. They're there in a cap and shades and they're getting ideas. So when they exercise a six year old. Yes. Your dream starter.

[Ed Gamble]

Right. Well, I'm, I'm at home doing my own cooking here. This is, this is integral to the, to the setup. But yet the restaurantiness means, I guess someone else is, you know, washing up and doing all that stuff. But I've got very nice lobster risotto that I make. So I would before, though, going into this parmesan and red wine, I years ago read in an interview with Christopher Walken that that was his favorite snack.

[James Acaster]

Oh.

[Ed Gamble]

And I tried it. I thought it was quite nice. And just of late in Venice, I had really, like, really good Parmesan, like at least sort of 50 something months aged. And that with a good red wine, with a good Sangiovese perhaps, is phenomenal. So there is that on the table as people are sitting down. I know there's quite a starter, but it's like a sort of a snack.

[Derren Brown]

Little Chef's welcome.

[Ed Gamble]

Sort of a Little Chef's welcome.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

So that, that would kick us off and then we would, we would move into the lobster risotto.

[Derren Brown]

That really sounded like you were lining one of us up for an impression on the US Talk show. He said, Christopher Walken.

[Ed Gamble]

I know, I know. I wonder how he would have said that.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I was sort of half hoping one of you would jump in with all.

[Derren Brown]

A lot of people have got a good walking and I'm not one of them.

[James Acaster]

Someone asked me recently, I really shouted out. Yeah, the audience started shouting out because I'm not very good at impressions, Right. So I could run anything on this podcast. They shouted, start shouting out impressions. They shout, christopher Walken. And I, in my head, I thought, well, everyone could do that.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Went for it, Couldn't do it.

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, you give it a go.

[Derren Brown]

Why don't you give it a go now? And saying, I love parmesan and red wine.

[James Acaster]

I love, I love parmesan and red wine.

[Derren Brown]

It's not bad, is it?

[James Acaster]

Not the worst thing I've ever threw.

[Derren Brown]

Your body into it as well, which I really like.

[James Acaster]

I was trying to, you know, think carry this watch I possess.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Derren Brown]

I think that's. Yeah, that's a lovely way to. If I walked in somewhere and there was parmesan and red wine on the table.

[Ed Gamble]

Crumbled up, not. Not grated.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I mean like chopped up into like little man. You want to get a good chance. You want to get the taste of the chicken.

[James Acaster]

Staged.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

At least, at least. I didn't even know that was a thing here. Like you struggle to get more than whatever 36 here and. But it's really good. It's really good if you get it.

[Derren Brown]

Do you want the whole wheel on the table as you come in so you can just sort of chip it.

[James Acaster]

Away and then in the middle is the card that one of them chose.

[Ed Gamble]

That's exactly right. Or this prediction in this envelope.

[James Acaster]

Prediction in this envelope.

[Derren Brown]

Were you trying to give Darren another idea? So is this.

[James Acaster]

I just think we could do an off menu Devin Brown collab for the next tour and everything's food based.

[Derren Brown]

You crack the wheel of Parmesan, there's a card in the middle.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, People do it all the time.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Devin's done it like fruit or something and their things in there that they chose.

[Ed Gamble]

It's really good.

[James Acaster]

It's a very good wheel of cheese.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

I don't know, I don't know if you could.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm just, I'm sat trying to work out how you get something into a wheel of cheese. Got one method, but I think it takes about four years.

[James Acaster]

Worth it. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

It's a 50 minute month trick.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

You must have done a painting of walking.

[Ed Gamble]

I have, yeah. I have over the years done a couple actually. Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

How do you choose your. Choose your subjects for your portraits?

[Ed Gamble]

Just kind of great faces. I mean, you've got to, you know, I spent a couple of weeks very close to the big, big paintings as well. So it's got to be someone whose face I want to paint. So I've just, just started one of Jack Nicholson who's got a great.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

A great face and just finished one of Beethoven who's also got very interesting with Beethoven. Really know exactly what he looks like. So he's just kind of working Saint Bernard. Other people's painting. Bernard. You think Beethoven looks like a Saint Bernard? Why'd you say Saint Bernard? Are you American?

[James Acaster]

Well, that was. What wasn't the film?

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. James singing in the film. Sorry.

[Ed Gamble]

Yes, of course. Sorry, sorry. James Bernard did that.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, they did film.

[Ed Gamble]

Film, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[James Acaster]

So how have you settled on what bait open? Actually Looks like. Then for your one, I felt there's.

[Ed Gamble]

An artist I found who got hold of the death mask and was able to do, like, really accurate reconstructions. And luckily they do all look a bit like the paintings.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Otherwise that would have been a shame. And. Yeah. So work for that. I work from reference shots anyway, so I love it. It's just a way of spending two weeks or whatever just like, locked in. A creative thing. It's a brilliant. It's my favorite thing.

[Derren Brown]

Is it therapeutic or.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, it really is. It really is. It's. I don't know. Do you find it hard if you've been touring or something? It just sort of finishes and then you'll. There's like. And you get really irritated. You blame everybody else. You realize you're just in this slightly kind of thing. So having something like painting to go into it doesn't involve anybody else, and just go away and do it. And it's. Yeah, it's the best.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Maybe I need to do something like that because I finish a tour and go. I can't. All I'm thinking about halfway through the tour is I can't wait for some time off doing nothing. And then I'm sat there doing nothing, going. I feel really angry.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, I'd love it. Started painting it. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to see your paintings. I'll paint you. Okay.

[Ed Gamble]

That's nice.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

No one really knows what James looks like, though. No, you don't have to track down his death mask.

[James Acaster]

I've got one.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

I'll lend you my death mask.

[Derren Brown]

Thank you, mate.

[James Acaster]

This lobster risotto sounds delicious, but let's get into it proper, how you make it. And like what?

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, okay. Well, you make a bisque to start with. So you roast or dry pan your lobster shells with Vegas and then fish stock or water and perno and tomato puree, fennel chili. This. This recipe, I should say it comes from a chef called Will Parks, who is now at the rather brilliant pig hotels. He gave me this. And there's a couple of other things I should probably not say, so I don't give away all his secrets. And then you use this and fennel and chili. And then you. You start off, you've made a stock, and then you use that stock in your risotto, which I use cognac and vermouth with. And then the. Then you reduce it. You reduce the stock to a bisque, and then you add that bisque at the end into your risotto along with your lobster meat. And lemon and some chives and that's it. And it should have the consistency of hot lava. It should tip like hot lava. Do you know this? This is the. You're supposed to be able to tilt the plate. And a risotto should just move like lava as opposed to a, you know, a wallop of Stodge often get. I thought that was a good thing. That's always stuck with me. Move like lava.

[Derren Brown]

Lava is a very funny thing to compare it to.

[James Acaster]

It's not something that loads of people have seen.

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, you're right. Or seen move. Maybe it's not very. Also very hot as well. You don't want your risotto that hot.

[Derren Brown]

Also, you would have thought with Italian food, the last thing they want to think about is lava as well.

[Ed Gamble]

If I had this in Naples, which is not. Not too far from Herculaneum. What's the other one called? What's the big one called?

[James Acaster]

Pompeii.

[Ed Gamble]

Pompeii.

[James Acaster]

Thank you.

[Derren Brown]

Be a good themed risotto though, wouldn't it? In Pompeii, if you go to a restaurant.

[Ed Gamble]

Very sensitive analogy to use in that part of the world.

[Derren Brown]

You get little shaped things under there.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

People go, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Model the rice into frightened shapes.

[Derren Brown]

Maybe that's what happened. We don't know.

[James Acaster]

Right.

[Derren Brown]

About the history.

[James Acaster]

We don't know.

[Derren Brown]

Maybe someone just made a massive risotto and everyone got trapped under it.

[James Acaster]

Got out of hand.

[Ed Gamble]

It was too hot. Yeah, yeah.

[James Acaster]

Get out of the way. It moves like lava.

[Ed Gamble]

It moves like. They wouldn't have the word.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah. I was thinking Dante's Peak. When the grandma's pushing the boat in the. She's waist high in the lava.

[Derren Brown]

Couple of great film references from you today.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, Pretty good.

[Derren Brown]

Beethoven and Dante's Peak harking back, man.

[James Acaster]

It's the Pierce Brosnan Dante's peak.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Acaster]

And the grandma gets out of the boat. I guess it's not lava. It's like lava infused water. Like, it's this lake that is like. Absolutely.

[Derren Brown]

It's lava stock.

[James Acaster]

Like. Yeah, it's lava stock. It's absolutely mad hot lake that you shouldn't get in. And. And she's not gonna get the grandkids to the end of the lake if she's in the boat. So she just gets out the boat and she pushes it. But she's like.

[Ed Gamble]

Does she sacrifice herself?

[James Acaster]

She sacrifices herself, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, that's nice.

[James Acaster]

And she's. She absolutely hates it. Like when she gets in the water, you can tell she's like, this is. This wasn't worth it. I shouldn't have done this.

[Ed Gamble]

She's a fool to herself. She regretted that the moment she got. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Be a much better scene if she just put her toe and went. Absolutely no way.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Nope. Sorry, Chuck.

[Ed Gamble]

One of the kids in I haven't seen Dante's Peak. Like, that doesn't even really ring a bell as a film.

[Derren Brown]

No. It feels like the sort of thing I have seen maybe 25 years ago.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, it's just classic, you know, before the Ket Rin Odeon opened up and we had the classic. We had the. We had the.

[Ed Gamble]

I get it.

[James Acaster]

And it was like that period of film where you were going to see daylight with Sylvester Stallone. Independence Day, obviously, the big one that spawned all of them, but all of those Stargate. Stargate, absolutely. Me and my mom, as a surprise, took me to see Stargate. I went bananas for it. I loved it. Really loved Stargate.

[Derren Brown]

Twister.

[Ed Gamble]

Twister with Philip Seymour Hoffman.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Yes, he is in it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

His finest role.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah. And you must have drawn a. A pHs. You must have drawn Phil Hoffman.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, I have.

[James Acaster]

Psh. Hell, Devin's made me forget if I.

[Ed Gamble]

Had Twister on vhs.

[Derren Brown]

You was on Twist.

[James Acaster]

You do. You do have it. You must have drawn for that thing.

[Ed Gamble]

I have, yeah, I have. I could do another one, actually, because that was a long time ago and I don't think it was very good.

[James Acaster]

Do him in Twister. Twister one just twisted. Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

You know, like a Hawaiian shirt and.

[James Acaster]

It was the cap on.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. It wasn't a very subtle kind of role, was he hadn't maybe been cast.

[Derren Brown]

What I've noticed is every time you suggest something to Darren, he goes, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll do that.

[Ed Gamble]

Sure.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm just being polite.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

The chicken. He's gonna do it all.

[Derren Brown]

The chicken. The chicken idea was like. Yeah, great. Okay, good.

[James Acaster]

I haven't suggested to someone so many things before that they should do, but I just think it's because if I can influence Derren Brown. Yeah. Then I'm the ultimate influencer. So I just keep on saying, you should do this, Devin. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

And if he does, Darren's just gonna keep going. Yeah, sure. And then he's not gonna do any of it.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Well, that's like a tip for anyone in your audience now who you try and influence. They just know all they have to do is say, yeah, sure to him and he can't control me. Yeah, sure, Devin.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm tempted to bring out the chicken just as a little niche.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Where would that get the biggest laugh in the country if I brought out.

[James Acaster]

Most audiences are going to laugh at that. It's not. They're not made of stone. That's funny.

[Ed Gamble]

But I mean, where would they know you and get the reference? Yeah, that's most like Kettering.

[James Acaster]

You do Kettering anywhere around Northamptonshire.

[Ed Gamble]

Okay.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. They're most likely gonna.

[Derren Brown]

And then you follow up by saying, we all remember what it was like before the Odeon opened. Yes, the roof will come off.

[James Acaster]

The new Boost Mobile network is offering unlimited talk, text and data for just $25 a month for life. That sounds like a threat. Then how do you think we should say it? Unlimited talk, text and data for just 25amonth for the rest of your life?

[Derren Brown]

I don't know.

[Ed Gamble]

Until your ultimate demise.

[James Acaster]

What if we just say forever? Okay, $25 a month. Forever. Get unlimited talk, text and Data for just $25 a month. With Boost Mobile Forever. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. If there's one thing that my family and friends know me for, it's being an amazing gift giver. I owe it all to celebrations passport from 1-800flowers.com my one stop shopping site that has amazing gifts for every occasion. With Celebrations Passport, I get free shipping on thousands of amazing gifts. And the more gifts I give, the more perks and rewards I earn. To learn more and take your gift giving to the next level, visit 1-800-flowers.com acast. That's 1-800-flowers.

[Derren Brown]

Com acast.

[James Acaster]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood? So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mint mobile.com switch. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first 3 month plan only taxes and fees, extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes of details. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career.

[Ed Gamble]

Day and said he was a big roas man.

[James Acaster]

Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

[Ed Gamble]

My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[James Acaster]

Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit.

[Ed Gamble]

That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply.

[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

Dream Main Course Dream Main Course Right now, I feel very strongly about this. Meatballs. Meatballs. So again, we're in my home and if there's a thing I really dislike, I'm trying to make it begin with a P. But it doesn't. Is in restaurants is the whole, the tasting menu thing. I really. And that's the opposite in my mind of what a meal should, you know, be. And I like to kind of be with friends and for it to feel social and easy and not like a, you know, like you're listening to a.

[Derren Brown]

Lecture course on two dots of pointing places again, isn't it? You don't want the people pointing at the food.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's annoying. Just kills the vibe. And you. I don't, you know, it's just like you don't listen to the origin story of what, you know, it's just gonna taste of more grass. So I do the opposite of that. So this is in my home and I've got my friends over and I've sort of. I won't name my friends because it'll be upsetting to the friends I haven't invited.

[Derren Brown]

Yes, but they know, they know. If they've not been invited, though.

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, they'd never know. They'd never know what happened. I'd be very, very careful about that. The only thing the restaurant aspect of this is providing is a round table. I've always, I love the people sitting around a round table. I don't have one. Can't really fit a round table in the kitchen. Home doesn't quite work. So we've got a rectangular one. But then you're always a bit, you know, stuck out on the end. So it's a round table and I don't know what this is, I don't know whether I saw. It's somewhere between maybe it's in the Godfather or maybe it's in a Woody Allen film. And there's just some people and they're in a restaurant and they're making. There's meatballs and tomato sauce and spaghetti. It's that Italian American thing. And they're just like. It's the passing around the table and the chat and everyone's talking over each other. And I don't know if that only happens on, you know, TV and in films, but that's. That's the thing for me, like, it's comfort food, and it's that social experience and everything that's the opposite of a fucking tasting menu. So we're. We're having. Having that. And I learned to cook a bit out in Italy once in Florence and then again in Ravello in the Amalfi coast. There's a great woman there called Mama Agata who teaches Italian cooking, which I love more than anything. And I first made meatballs there, and then I've sort of. Which is a kind of Neapolitan way of doing them, which is a bit different. And now how I do them is with, again, sort of a bit of fennel and bit of chili and garlic. There's a bit of a running theme. Bring everything together. And your milky bread. Do you know this? You ever made meatballs?

[Derren Brown]

No.

[Ed Gamble]

So you. You soak stale bread in milk, and then you can't take the crust off. You mix that up with beef and pork, mince your herbs and bit of garlic. No onions. Egg to bind, and Parmesan, I think, a parsley, I guess. And you mix all that up. And you need to deep fry those. You make them into little meatballs, and you roll them in flour. They really want to. You want to deep fry them. And then meanwhile, you're making your tomato sauce with your tomatoes and olive oil. And I'd go maybe like capers and anchovies, bit of, you know, olives and stuff in there. In fact, actually, I think, to be more accurate with this, it's. It's the perfect meatballs that I don't ever think exists. There's always something disappointing when you order. Sometimes you do fancy meatballs, they're never that nice. They're a bit bland or it's just not quite. But it's the idea of the perfect meatballs in the tomato sauce and maybe not spaghetti, but, like, the thicker spaghetti is like bucatini or spaghetti or what's it called? Peachy that you can make with. It's just semolina and water. Then you roll them out by hand. But then you don't get the starchy water that you get from the sort of dried spaghetti, which I think you need in the sauce. But so good spaghetti. And really just. There's something that's always missing. I don't know what it is, but it's. There's a perfect meatball out there. And this is the dream restaurant.

[Derren Brown]

It would be absolutely. It would be the perfect. Perfect meatball that has that. There's nothing missing.

[Ed Gamble]

I've thought about these perfect meatballs so much since first listening to your podcast.

[Derren Brown]

Size is a difficult thing with meatballs. I think it's rarely the perfect size.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, golf balls are too big. I think actually they're kind of pulpetted. The actual. I think they only like a cherry size. And normally you'd have them just on their own without any tomato sauce. That's very much an American thing. But I think it's one of the few things maybe the Americans really got right when it came to bastardizing Italian food. And that's the whole spaghetti tomato thing. So. Yes, that. But I would go, yeah, a little bigger than a cherry.

[Derren Brown]

Slightly bigger than a cherry. Yeah, big cherry size.

[Ed Gamble]

Big cherry. Strawberry.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Strawberries are slightly bigger than cherries.

[Ed Gamble]

They're not the shape of a strawberry.

[Derren Brown]

No, that would be mad.

[Ed Gamble]

Just idiot. But yeah, nice round, strawberry sized.

[James Acaster]

What you mean about chasing the perfect one, though? Because I think as English people. Yes, Meatballs. Spaghetti. Meatballs specifically are one of the things that we see drawn before we eat. Like, before I'd ever had spaghetti and meatballs, I'd seen it drawn cartoon of cartoons and it looked delicious.

[Ed Gamble]

You say that little cartoon circle just next to your head on the wall behind you.

[Derren Brown]

That does look a bit.

[James Acaster]

I dare.

[Ed Gamble]

How do you do that stuff?

[James Acaster]

It was a little. Yeah, they look like spaghetti and meatballs right there. Yeah. Darren, stop. I think you see it in those cartoons. Look delicious in the beano or whatever or like laying in the tramp or forks stuck.

[Ed Gamble]

It's kind of cartoon.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

So then trying to. And we're singing songs about them as well. We're singing songs about my meatball rolled away and all that. All covered in cheese because somebody sneezed on top of spaghetti or covered in cheese.

[Ed Gamble]

How would Christopher Walken have sung that?

[James Acaster]

I lost my poor meatball. Somebody sneezed.

[Derren Brown]

I thought you meant the rude song you sing at school.

[James Acaster]

Here we go. I don't know this do you not.

[Derren Brown]

Remember spaghetti and meatballs and a banana? Do you not remember that?

[James Acaster]

No, I've never heard that before. I just pointed out his penis for the. For the lady.

[Derren Brown]

It's a rude version of La Bamba. Spaghetti and meatballs and a banana. And the meatballs are the balls.

[James Acaster]

Yes, we know.

[Derren Brown]

The spaghetti is the pubes.

[James Acaster]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Ed Gamble]

What's the banana?

[Derren Brown]

I believe, leaving the headline until last.

[Ed Gamble]

It's the winkle.

[Derren Brown]

It's the peanut.

[James Acaster]

The winkle.

[Derren Brown]

I thought that's what you meant.

[James Acaster]

But my point is, yeah, spaghetti and meatballs are a big part of your life as a kid, before you've even tried it.

[Ed Gamble]

I think so.

[James Acaster]

Before you've even eaten spit. So you've got this thing in your head. So it might be impossible because a lot of the time with food and drink, we're chasing. The first time we had them or whatever, or the best time we had them with this, we're chasing, like, what it conjured up in us when we saw these drawings or the films or.

[Ed Gamble]

Godfather or whatever it was. There's a whole thing that comes with it, which is why you need a dream restaurant to. To make it happen. And I sort of. I don't even quite know what. What it would be that would make them the perfect meatball. I suppose they would have a bit of a. Maybe a bit of a crunch to the outside, maybe. And then maybe the sauce would just be really rich and not just like an apologetic. Yeah, tin of tomato, you know, like it'll actually have a real something to it.

[Derren Brown]

I think it is about the atmosphere as well.

[James Acaster]

Right.

[Derren Brown]

You described you a bit passing it over or someone's dishing it up and it's just not fussy, is it? It's just like warming and homely.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My partner has a habit of serving. By the time I've sat down, he's served the. Everything out and put it on plates, which to me is. I'd never say anything directly. I might say. He might listen to in the car, but it slightly kills that part of the process, which I think is important. And also when you sit in, you know, films and stuff, the sauce is always sat atop the spaghetti, which I think is kind of wrong, because you want to mix the spaghetti in with the sauce for that starchy goodness to think of the sauce and the rest of it. So that's. But I guess it just doesn't look as good. If you're designing or directing that film, you want it to be a bit.

[Derren Brown]

Messy as well, don't you want it to?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, you want. Yeah, and.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, get involved. Tuck it. Are you tucking a napkin into the. Into the collar?

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, I should totally do that.

[Derren Brown]

You should do that if you're having.

[Ed Gamble]

Spaghetti, maybe Kitchen roll in our house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it might, you know, come up, like, bend up a bit. Yeah, yeah. But expensive kitchen roll, like, you know.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, nicely.

[Ed Gamble]

The stuff that really absorbs.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. Bounty.

[Ed Gamble]

I was thinking Regina Blitz, but I.

[James Acaster]

Don'T want to Vagina blitz.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Derren Brown]

Isn't that a drag queen?

[James Acaster]

Yeah, brilliant.

[Derren Brown]

Thank you.

[James Acaster]

That's what he reminded me as well. I've forgotten about this until you started talking about it. But, like, I used to work in the school as classroom assistant, and there was, like an annex center where the kids who couldn't be in the main school would go to school, and there's only about three of them in, and they would all be, like, one on one with different classroom assistants. There was a kid from my class was sent there, so we'd take it in turns to go there, like, once or twice a week. And me and him were given the job one day of cooking for everyone. And I learned how to make meatloaf from Jamie Oliver's cookbook. And he suggested that we made that into spaghetti and meatballs and have it with spaghetti and do that. We did that for everyone. And it was a really nice communal thing. And that was a very nice memory that I've kind of half forgotten about until now.

[Ed Gamble]

I was really, really fussy when I was a kid. I barely ate anything. I was so proper fussy eater. And then when I. When I was at uni, I was in the back of a car starving. And some. The people I was with, they went out and got a pizza and called from the shop, do you want sausage on it? And I said, yes, thinking that meant sausage. It meant salami. And salami was an absolute no, no. But when it. I was so hungry. But when it came, it was all, like, you know, mixed into the. With the cheese and everything, so I couldn't pull the salami out. So I kind of thought, all right, I'll just have to trick myself with that. I like salami. So I did this thing of. As I was eating it, I. Not out loud, but in my head, I was going, mmm, mmm, mmm. And doing that and not giving myself a moment to go, hang on, where's the salami taste? I don't like. Where is it? Where is it? There it is. I don't like it. And it Worked and I ate it. It was lovely. And then I started doing it with everything. And I just wiped out all these things I didn't like by just doing this, by going, mmm, in my head.

[James Acaster]

That's amazing.

[Ed Gamble]

The only thing it left was mushrooms and blue cheese, which I can't stand.

[Derren Brown]

But you, Derren, browned yourself.

[Ed Gamble]

I Daren browned myself at a young age.

[James Acaster]

Are you aware that that's like a saying?

[Derren Brown]

You know it's a verb. You know your name's a verb, right?

[Ed Gamble]

I have, yeah. Are you aware I use it? I use it. Without even realizing the irony, I just.

[James Acaster]

Darren Brown that me and James watched.

[Derren Brown]

Someone try and Derren Brown someone else out of hating of food. Do you remember?

[James Acaster]

Oh, my God, it was the best. Fucking hell. Yeah, I do remember what happened.

[Derren Brown]

It was when we were doing Celebrity Hunted and it was before we started filming. We were all just hanging out in Shrewsbury Prison was where we started.

[James Acaster]

We had like two days in Shrewsbury Prison for them to just shoot, like, five seconds of us escaping from the prison. But it was such a great two days.

[Derren Brown]

So we were with the Speakmans. I don't know if you know the Speakmans. No, they're like therapists, but they do a lot of work with people around, that sort of stuff. And they're on this morning quite a lot. There's a very funny video of them speaking to a woman who throws up every time she thinks about a custody. But we were also with Bobby Siegel, who was on University Challenge.

[Ed Gamble]

Yes.

[Derren Brown]

And he. He didn't like Marmite. So they went, right, Bobby.

[James Acaster]

Also for context as well, Bobby Siegel is the most positive person you've ever met. He's actively trying to be positive about everything.

[Ed Gamble]

Right.

[James Acaster]

And would never in a million years, if someone was doing any sort of like, mentalism on him or hypnosis, ever admit if it wasn't working. He's a people pleaser.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Okay.

[James Acaster]

So it was perfect.

[Derren Brown]

We watched him go through all of these exercises they set up with Marmite of him getting like, now imagine I've got my Marmite here, Bobby. What are you going to do? Move closer to the Marmite, Closer to the Marmite. And then he was imagining eating the Marmite. He's like, and what do you feel about Marmite now, Bobby? And he went, yeah, I like it. Actually, you could tell. Total bullshit.

[James Acaster]

A bit of the enthusiastic in his face going, like, it's good, isn't it, Bobby? You like it, Bobby?

[Ed Gamble]

And did they then get him to.

[Derren Brown]

Try it for real the next morning at breakfast? They got him to try some Marmite. It's, like, nice.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

And they walked away from the table. You could just see him, like, absolutely gutted that he'd eaten Marmite.

[James Acaster]

He was eating it on its own. Like, he had a pot and he was putting his finger in and just into his mouth so much Marmite that even people who love Marmite wouldn't do that.

[Ed Gamble]

I love Marmite, but even, like a tiny bit of it on its own, I have a real, like. It really makes me wretch.

[Derren Brown]

You want to hang out with the Speakman.

[James Acaster]

I think what they did with him, and maybe you can vouch if this would work. So they. They basically said, think of a food you love.

[Ed Gamble]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

And we're putting that over here. So they, like, gestured. It's over in this part of the room. And as we move this pot of Marmite closer to that, how do you feel about it?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

And then eat the Marmite. That was what I remember it being.

[Ed Gamble]

That's an NLP stuff going on, right?

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I think those. I remember I cured someone of a cat allergy like that and using a sort of similar thing. Just really curious to see if it would work. And I say cured, but it was sort of like. It definitely worked there and then, like, because when he was talking about cats before, he was even just talking about and thinking about them, it was making him sneeze and everything. And then he didn't afterwards. So there's that. Okay, you've created, like. But that's not a real cat yet. It's just how you feel differently. And then apparently he was better with the cats, but I think it didn't really last, like, you know, after a few weeks or a couple months, whatever, he was back to where he was, so. Really? Yeah. Hard to. Hard to say, but it can have some effect.

[James Acaster]

We felt Bobby Seagull was just being.

[Ed Gamble]

Polite, I think always just being polite. What she did was go, mmm, yeah, yeah.

[James Acaster]

He was actively making those noises. So maybe it did help a little bit, him doing that.

[Ed Gamble]

I find Marmite and mint sauce is the other thing that I love, but I can't have it on its own. Just a thing. Yeah, it's just something.

[Derren Brown]

It's rare that you're in a situation where you might end up having a Marmite or mint sauce by itself, but.

[Ed Gamble]

You'Re gonna do it once if you like. Both of them.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Acaster]

Ye.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true.

[James Acaster]

There was a salad in the pub that I used to work in, this chain pub that was just Basically, I mean, I can't remember any other ingredients, but there weren't many other ingredients. Basically just mint sauce and red onions. I, I, I, I got hooked on it one day. I couldn't stop eating it. Just this. We had to.

[Ed Gamble]

Certainly explains your breath.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, I'll stink. For the listener, I'll. Your dream side dish.

[Ed Gamble]

It's not terribly interesting, but I just thought I like a nice, like a rocket salad. Because with the meatballs, you know, I'm sure there are better side dishes in the world, but if you're having this rocket salad with some of that Parmesan and perhaps a nice balsamic, nice olive oil, that would be very nice.

[Derren Brown]

This is a very coherent menu.

[Ed Gamble]

It's very, it's a little too carby, I suppose. Risotto followed by pasta.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, but people would like. I would do that at an Italian restaurant.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Because you're like, you're there to enjoy it and you want to get stuck in.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

But I suppose they'd appear. The risotto and the pasta would probably appear on the same premie platty course, wouldn't they?

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, but you're the customer, right?

[Ed Gamble]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[James Acaster]

So this is a very nice simple salad.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, a nice simple salad. Yeah. I think you, it could be a bowl of rice, mashed potato, I guess that's what comes in. But no, it's just. Yeah. Nice little wild rocket. Quite nice.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Grew my own rocket for a little while. It was delicious.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

And then never returned to that.

[James Acaster]

That did you make, Were you making salads? Pretty regular. Did you overdo it?

[Ed Gamble]

Had a lot of rocket to use.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

And again, good, good Parmesan. I'd probably just end up eating the Parmesan on its own. It's nothing like that. That and a good, good bottle of red.

[James Acaster]

It's in the first episode of Chef's Table, that series where. And I forgot the name of the chef, Massimo, is it? Or something. But like he tells the story of when they saved all the.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. All of the, the real. The rounds.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

It was the broken by, by promoting the idea of cooking with broken parmesan, wasn't it?

[James Acaster]

Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And they do the. Tap it. What it should sound like when you tap on it. And that stuck with me a lot like that. Kind of like the sound of that sounds delicious. When they're tapping on the, on a.

[Ed Gamble]

Wheel or it doesn't work with a wedge.

[James Acaster]

No. Yeah. That's like a wood.

[Derren Brown]

You can't go around the supermarket cow bell.

[Ed Gamble]

Tapping on all the wedges?

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

You done the avocado? Okay.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah. Tap it on the wheel.

[Ed Gamble]

And what's. What is the sound. Is it like a dead, heavy sound or is it like.

[James Acaster]

It's like. Yeah, it is dead, I guess. But then there's like a bit of a hollowy sound to it as well. So, like. Yeah, you get that kind of like. It's like a dampened drum or something.

[Derren Brown]

And when you hear something. When you hear something knock back. You know it's ready.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Knock from the inside.

[Derren Brown]

I'm ready.

[James Acaster]

It's the cheese knocking back.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, it's the cheese knocking back.

[James Acaster]

Three of diamonds. Yeah. Four years this has taken. There we go. That would be gutting. If you. What's the longest you've spent on a trick for it not to work?

[Ed Gamble]

That's a good question.

[James Acaster]

I think. That's a good question. Right.

[Ed Gamble]

I remember being on stage on Broadway, and I'd messed up a trick at the beginning, and it was like. It was quite a long trick. I was in, like, you know, 15, 20 minutes. Quite a long time to spend on one thing on stage with four climaxes that we're gonna. And I just knew none of them were gonna work. And that felt like. And that felt like the longest time I'd spent on a trick for it not to work. And I made the same mistake the night after and the same mistake. But by the end of it, I'd learned that, you know, people didn't mind. It's a weird thing, like, you know, mess something up. Like, it's sort of okay, but do.

[Derren Brown]

People almost want to see you mess at least one thing up?

[Ed Gamble]

So, yeah, I think I have to. And if a show's gone too smoothly, I will mess something up on purpose. Otherwise, it's like a juggler dropping a ball. I guess. You have to. I remember I did a show once and I couldn't get the. Either me or the person on stage couldn't get the lid off the marker. And I could hear backstage running around trying to get another. Trying to get another one. Those weren't any other markers. And it was in the. It got reviewed that night, and it was like this really lovely human moment. I guess they thought I'd do it on purpose. So I do it sometimes on purpose because actually, now, you know, people aren't looking at what you're doing or thinking about other stuff if they're watching somebody struggle to get a pen off a mark off a lid off a marker. But, yeah, failure is an important thing, thank God.

[Derren Brown]

And people need something to compare it to.

[James Acaster]

Right, yeah, sure.

[Derren Brown]

They need to. The really good stuff seems really good if they can see what happens when it goes wrong.

[James Acaster]

So the amount of time you must spend. There was one where you get a.

[Derren Brown]

Darren's not gonna remember this at all.

[James Acaster]

Remember this? There's one where it's one of bet on the horses and.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Acaster]

And you said that you'd done it. So it's, you know, for people haven't seen it. It's like a series of. Every time you tell them to bet on a horse it wins.

[Ed Gamble]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

And then they win massive at the end.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

And you're starting to kill.

[Ed Gamble]

Slightly killed the surprise for anybody watching it.

[Derren Brown]

But.

[Ed Gamble]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

Yes. Yeah. Spoiler alert.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Too late to say that it's a fairly linear. Linear plot.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you want me to say? They don't expect that spoils it even more. But like how it worked. Yeah. So the way you've done it is you've done it with a series of people and it's really. It's not like. It's just that if you do it enough times it will eventually happen like that and then that person will think that this amazing trick has been done with it or something. Yeah, yeah. How long are you spending on that doing it with all the ducks?

[Ed Gamble]

Oh yeah, yeah. So that took a very long time. So, yeah. It all started with the idea that, you know, if you'd get. Every week you'd get a thing in your email saying this horse is going to win like in two days time. And then you perhaps the first time you're like, really? And then you don't even think about it and then you realize it has. And then you get it another result the next week and you actually. Maybe this time you actually watch the race and it does win. And does it again. It does win. And then when it gets to the fourth one or the fifth one, it's like, would you want to buy the system? It's expensive but you'll be able to do this whenever you like. And yet you just start with enough people and this one in six that get happened to get the winning horse the winning prediction. Because you've obviously divided that big group into six and given each group a different prediction. So you take that group of six which if you start with enough people is still a big group of people and then you split them into six for the next race and them into six for the next race and so there'll be one person by the end of It. Which we had, who had just got a series of like, impossibly, you know, impossible predictions. And sure enough, she was willing to put her life savings out to buy this system. And then we told her after she'd given us the money. Well, here's how it all works. So let's, let's see. Oh, no, there was a twist at the end. I won't say. Just in case anyone still wants to watch it.

[James Acaster]

People have to watch it. Your dream drink, Derren Brown?

[Ed Gamble]

Dream. Well, I'm going for. I'm going for a bottle of. Well, it all starts with the Parmesan, I suppose, so. And I. Sangiovese, maybe a Brunello di Montalcino, which is probably my favorite red. I'm not drinking a lot with it, but just like. Yeah, I probably just like a glass and a half.

[Derren Brown]

Very specific.

[James Acaster]

Wow.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Are you. Why the half glass?

[Ed Gamble]

I like to drink exactly the same amount as milk goes into a Cadbury's Flake. That's, that's. And then I stop.

[Derren Brown]

It's a very good system. Now. Not enough people stick to that.

[Ed Gamble]

It's an example of martini afterwards. And I don't. I just can't do a martini if I've had more than like maybe a glass and a half.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Derren Brown]

That's why I start with a martini. And then I think.

[James Acaster]

Do you.

[Derren Brown]

Then I think I can carry on.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah. Do you start?

[James Acaster]

Okay, I start with martini.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I think it's a nice digestive afterwards and opens you up a little bit.

[Derren Brown]

I think I. If I got to the end of the night, I'd be like, no, there's no way I can have martini now. I'm gonna absolutely lose my mind.

[Ed Gamble]

I quite like a Tommy's Margarita to start things off.

[James Acaster]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, yeah, Tommy's Margarita.

[Derren Brown]

No.

[Ed Gamble]

So Tommy's margarita is. There's no triple sec or, or other alcohol in it. It is just tequila and a good 100. Agave tequila, not the horrible stuff and lime and agave. And I, I was friendly with. Remember Kenny Everett?

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Remember Cleo Rocker sue was Kenny Everett's sidekick. Red headed bombshell. So she's a good friend and she has a tequila brand of her own called Aquariva. And that got me this. Before tequila became a huge thing, she was very much at the forefront of this kind of big tequila of mine. And she was obviously very passionate about the drink and got me quite passionate about it too. It is a magic drink. You know, there's no hangover if you don't as I'm sure you know, if you don't. As long as you stay hydrated and you don't mix it with any other drinks. So the nice thing about a Tommy's Margarita is because there's no other alcohol in it, you really can just drink this drink all night and you will feel fine if slightly held. Like I'm holding my. Holding my head in my own hands. Now, there's a slight. I've done this. I have drunk them all day once and the next morning everything's fine. But it's maybe it's a bit like everything's been taken away and replaced with identical. There's something slightly off. You can't put your finger on it, but you don't. There's no bad feelings.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah. I think I'd prefer a traditional hangover than to feeling like all of my stuff is replaced with identical versions of themselves. You've not got the Tommy's Margarita on your menu yet. Do you want that? As you come into the meal before.

[Ed Gamble]

The meal could be a welcoming. Yeah. A welcomed in.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Welcome. And is a welcome.

[Derren Brown]

And then you're moving on to the. The red wine.

[Ed Gamble]

Moving on to the. Onto the Parmesan, the red wine.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

So this is very Italian menu. Have you spent a lot of time in Italy? Do you remember the first time you had these Italian wines that you thought, this. This is my jam.

[Ed Gamble]

I don't know. I don't know a huge amount about wine. But as with anything like that, it's like if you can have one little area or one little part of it and then it makes it feel a bit more manageable. I remember having Brunello on the. Yeah. Holiday in Tuscany somewhere. Yeah. And loving it. Going, that's it. That's. That's what I like.

[Derren Brown]

That's my one.

[Ed Gamble]

That's it.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

And then there's a. Then you. From that, I guess you sort of build out and go, I quite like that too. No, I can't remember the difference. I don't know which one I'm drinking, but there's. Yeah. So that's definitely my whiny home. And then. Yeah. I'd cook Italian food all the time and love pasta. I would have pasta all the time. And I. I can.

[Derren Brown]

You literally can. You're doing brown.

[Ed Gamble]

Exactly.

[James Acaster]

Bring the magic to every holiday gathering with help from Whole Foods Market.

[Derren Brown]

Decorate the table with their vibrant winter.

[James Acaster]

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[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, we're ready.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Is it gone quickly?

[Ed Gamble]

That's gone quickly. Yeah.

[James Acaster]

You have no idea how many other, you know, tricks and specials of yours I've held back on asking about. So I've done quite well.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Appreciate it.

[James Acaster]

Do you ever worry about people that you've done stuff on? You ever go, I hope that guy's all right or I got to push the guy off the building?

[Ed Gamble]

Well, there's so few of them that it's easy to keep in touch and maintain a friendship with them. So sort of that's, that's what's happened. So like in the last one a few years ago now on Netflix and Channel 4 called Sacrifice, I remember the guy. Oh yeah, this is the guy getting, getting laying down his life for an illegal Mexican immigrant. But he himself was, you know, very much anti all of that immigration stuff so as whether he could be changed and he. Yeah, so he came over, I flew him over to watch the show and watched it because it's all very weird when you, it's not just, not just your experience of going through it and we knew that would be fine for him. And there's a, you know, there's obviously take care of people, but then there's actually seeing your experience then rendered as a TV show with, you know, music and close ups and bits edited out that might have meant a lot to you, but just don't make the final cut and so on. So he came over and watched it and then we watched it again with Martin Freeman because he was a big fan of Martin. I watched.

[James Acaster]

Couldn't lift the remote.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, I didn't expect him to come up twice and Because I wanted him to, because he was a big fan of Martin Freeman and Martin's A friend. And I wanted him to feel, you know, sort of proud of it and enjoy it. And then we watched it again with the other guys that had done the other shows like that that I've done. They've all been through these similar journeys, so he could feel like part of a very niche.

[Derren Brown]

Oh, that's nice.

[Ed Gamble]

Group army. I think of him as an army.

[James Acaster]

I would like to see that as a. As a special, actually. All those guys living in a house together.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Acaster]

They've been through different things. One of them fought zombies. For real? Yeah. He's walking around waiting for the signal. Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

To attack.

[Derren Brown]

Just all of them in a house. Constantly paranoid that it's another. Something else is happening. But it's just.

[Ed Gamble]

I do get occasional emails from people that think they are part of a show. And in the middle of. There was one we did called Remote Control. It was like a big game show thing and the audience were in masks and they're making decisions about whether good or bad things happen to somebody who's out being secretly filmed. And there was a runner on that show who was in one of the sort of, you know, secret filming units over the road from the pub where this guy is. And all this stuff's happening to him. And, you know, Ron is a very important character in a crew keeping everything ticking over. And he just totally freaked out. Thought the whole thing was about him. And he literally ran down the street screaming. He totally lost his shit and ran down the street in the middle of a live thing, screaming.

[Derren Brown]

I mean, I get the impulse. Yeah, Yeah, I completely understand it. Even more embarrassing when someone has to go. It's not.

[James Acaster]

It's not. And you might be a narcissist.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, Total main character syndrome.

[Ed Gamble]

Literally.

[Derren Brown]

Main character syndrome.

[Ed Gamble]

The other one that comes to mind is on. On Apocalypse that you mentioned during the nighttime sequences. So I. Obviously, I have to go and sleep, but we felt like somebody should if Stephen, our guy in it at all, like, freaked out in the middle of the night. Like, if it was me watching, I would. I would get in there, hypnotize him and make sure everything was fine. And even that meant, you know, the whole show had to go down the toilet. It wouldn't matter. But I. Basically, there's always that. That thing. I can run in and sort it out if I need to, if it all goes horribly wrong. But I needed to sleep. But. So I would sleep and he would sleep. But we had it. We had a backup hypnotist just in case he was doing a night shift. And we're just watching Stephen sleep just in case anything like that happened. And I won't, I won't mention his name. I normally do. I won't this time because I don't embarrass him. But he needed to go to the loo. So at some point he said, do you mind if I knew about the loo? And of course it's fine, like nothing's happening. So I said, yeah, yeah, there's actually just. Well, the nearest one is actually within the sort of filmed area. So, you know, be quiet. It's within this sort of like bunker that Stephen's in on. But it was like there was a portaloo somewhere. Yeah, just best you just use that. So off he goes to use the loo. And then there was something. They were going to do a very quiet rehearsal of a zombie crowd scene that was going to happen the next morning. So back up hypnotizing to the toilet. Then there's like, okay, do you mind, Sorry, just stay in there for a bit because we just gotta rehearse. Don't come out. Then there's like a load of silent zombies sort of pretending to shake the thing, the fences, and they kind of run through there a bit. And no one tells backup hypnotist in the toilet that he can come out at the end of it. So he just, he knows he's there to do a job, so he just sort of sleeps, I think, in the portal, certainly there for a very, very long time. So there are entire sequences of that show where there's a blackout pipette trapped in the portal.

[James Acaster]

You see his outline, if you look carefully, just leant against the wall, sleeping that way.

[Derren Brown]

You should have just filmed that and made that a different show.

[James Acaster]

So, yeah, your dream dessert, Devon.

[Ed Gamble]

Okay, well, I tell you at home what it is and what I was going to say, for reasons of honesty and transparency, is a single charbonnel, a walker salted caramel truffle. So I love it, cuz normally I'm full, right. I make these carby things I can't have. I can't do a pudding on top of that. So. So they're on the mantelpiece in the front room. I get the big pots because again, the big ones and they're all in their little, you know, little frilly things. And I take it and I normally try to do it, there's not around and I sit down and I'm very mindful. They're lovely and I'm very mindful about enjoying this one chocolate. However, given it's A dream restaurant. I figured something could happen whereby you'd lose some of the fullness and general gastric discomfort at this point and you'd open up a bit of space for a nice pudding. Otherwise it's a bit pointless. So I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. Apple crumble. Must be a popular choice.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, pretty popular.

[Derren Brown]

It comes up. Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Not normally after risotto and spaghetti.

[Ed Gamble]

No, I mean, this is it. It's not a practical.

[Derren Brown]

No, but we're employing the genie's powers here. You know, you're not. You're not feeling full. You're ready for apple crumble.

[Ed Gamble]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Hearty.

[Ed Gamble]

Might even put a little shovel of walker on top.

[James Acaster]

Top. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

We'll give you the sharpener.

[James Acaster]

You're having that afterwards. Because you described it so love, so nicely.

[Ed Gamble]

No, you're absolutely right.

[James Acaster]

You absolutely right. No, yeah, but you've got to have it on its own afterwards. But the crumble is.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, apple crumble. And sometimes blackberries in there, too. Oats. I sort of. I do oats. My mum's always like, have you put oats in there?

[James Acaster]

Okay.

[Ed Gamble]

She's not sure about the oats. Her way of doing it.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

And oats, I think, are a little out there.

[Derren Brown]

It's a bit new school.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, a bit new school. But I quite like them. I think I quite like the oats. So, yeah. Nothing particularly imaginative with the apple crumble, but it's just. Again, it's just all. It's called comfort food for me. Risotto's big comfort food as well, isn't it? It's all red wine. It's all about that. And again, bring it out maybe with ice cream, but probably with custard.

[Derren Brown]

Hot or cold custard?

[Ed Gamble]

Oh, no, hot custard. Don't. Yeah, don't do that. Do people have cold custard?

[James Acaster]

We both like. On a hot dessert, that cold custard. We both like it.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah, but it's the same. You say you might have ice cream that's basically just very cold custard.

[James Acaster]

Isn't it the coldest of all custards?

[Ed Gamble]

It is, but I'd rather go custard over ice cream. I do love an ice cream. Matter of fact, my other option would have been vanilla ice cream with Swiss roll. Chocolate Swiss roll. When you were a kid, you did that. So a bit like essentially a deconstructed arctic roll, which we all had, I'm.

[James Acaster]

Sure, Joe, what we can tell you.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Because you have chose the apple crumb every episode. There's a secret ingredient. If the guest chooses it, they leave it.

[Ed Gamble]

Have I mentioned it out?

[James Acaster]

Sort of mini rolls for you?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

We chose that because of a trick you did with mini rolls.

[Ed Gamble]

I was doing my best.

[James Acaster]

I think that was dangerously close to it.

[Ed Gamble]

Okay, well, I won't.

[James Acaster]

You're allowed to mention it. It's fine. You're allowed to mention it.

[Ed Gamble]

Can you mention something about chocolate roll?

[James Acaster]

You haven't chose it, so we're fine. Yeah. Okay. But like. But if you chose it as your choice.

[Ed Gamble]

Close. But no chocolate cigar.

[Derren Brown]

Because the Swiss roll is not a mini roll. Is not the same as a Swiss roll.

[James Acaster]

Well, we would have to have that debate. If a mini roll is the same as a Swiss roll.

[Ed Gamble]

What happens if somebody says it? Do you just cut it dead? Get out.

[James Acaster]

We say that you're not getting any of your food that you ordered. You're not getting any of it. In the dream, it's only happened once. It's only happened once. And then we read them their menu out, tell them it's going all. It's all going in the bin. And you'd be surprised at how badly it gets received by the person. They're still pretty angry that they get their meal.

[Derren Brown]

Even though it's a completely imaginary menu. They're liver that they don't.

[Ed Gamble]

Disappointing.

[James Acaster]

Disappointed by it. For you it was mini roles because of the League of Gentlemen thing you did. Yes. I will say though, yeah, that mini roles thing is the only thing that I'm going to just straight up ask you how you did it. I know you're not going to tell us and I know it's a waste of. I know that magicians, evangelists and everyone get asked this all the time, but it's been bothering me ever since I saw it probably over a decade ago. And I would like you to just tell us how you did it, please.

[Ed Gamble]

One martini. Tell you anything. But it's a. It's a razor blade and a.

[James Acaster]

There's a razor blade.

[Ed Gamble]

Chocolate roll.

[James Acaster]

Chocolate roll, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

I'd say it.

[Derren Brown]

Not a Swiss.

[James Acaster]

And there's a whole bunch of other things beforehand of like they sit down on chairs and you mix some envelopes up and they open the envelopes, it says what color chair they're going to sit on. And they reach under their chair and they've all got the color that corresponds to that. There's a whole bunch of different things.

[Ed Gamble]

That have to all be any men in the table. It's the ones that escaped from pay.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that is I think I think about it a lot. I think. I don't know.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm genuinely. I genuinely cannot remember.

[James Acaster]

I watch.

[Ed Gamble]

I do occasionally watch those things back. I have no idea. Yeah, absolutely no idea.

[Derren Brown]

That was good.

[Ed Gamble]

I saw it. Well, not quite that, as sadly as that sounds, but occasionally I'll just watch it because someone will be talking about it. I haven't seen that video. I pop that. I'll find it or just suddenly it'll come up on my, you know, computer or something. I'll just find myself watching it. I haven't got a clue.

[Derren Brown]

But that's. That's how you know it's a good trick. Right. You've even tricked yourself in the future.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Acaster]

There's an idea for a future show.

[Ed Gamble]

Uh huh.

[James Acaster]

Trick yourself in the future.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

Are you going to add any more to that?

[James Acaster]

Yeah, just get the ball, trick yourself in the future, do a load of things, record them, then you sit down and you're the person it's happening to and by then you've forgotten about it.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

And do it. That you just trick yourself. You'd like, fuck it now.

[Ed Gamble]

So the audience are watching me do tricks on myself. I go, I have no idea.

[James Acaster]

Watching you.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

React to the video. Of course they will all think you just potentially tricked.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

But you will know, can they see what's on the video or are they just watching my reaction?

[James Acaster]

They can see what's on the video.

[Ed Gamble]

They can see what's on the video.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah. All right.

[Derren Brown]

Is this how you normally write shows? Someone comes in and says, just a completely random idea and then goes, just getting the ball rolling, Zo.

[James Acaster]

Andy Nyman. Does it just get the ball rolling? Just trick yourself in the future. See you later.

[Ed Gamble]

Peace out. That's a weird thing with that. People do say things and then, like, you have to stop them because sometimes it does lead to half a thought or you've had a similar thought and then they're like, well, I gave you that idea.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

No, you didn't. That was a rotation chicken. That was something else. But yes, the idea of rotation is something that we. It does. Yeah. That happens quite a lot.

[Derren Brown]

The chicken's the headline of that idea. I think if you change it from chicken, I think it's no longer.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine.

[James Acaster]

And to be honest, if it's not. If the chicken's not rotating, I'm not gonna think it's me. If you just got chickens knocking about, I'm not gonna go that with me. Yeah. It's Only if it's a rotisserie chicken being used to put someone into a trance.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Okay.

[Derren Brown]

And then they're on the rotisserie at the end.

[James Acaster]

Then it's me. But then even then, I'm not gonna, like, get annoyed I didn't get credit. I just know in my heart there's a satisfaction.

[Ed Gamble]

Isn't there? That's enough. That is enough.

[James Acaster]

I'll be really happy with that.

[Derren Brown]

It's about time. A hypnotist use the idea of a chicken.

[James Acaster]

Right. It is about time.

[Derren Brown]

We've never seen that before, but it's the opposite.

[Ed Gamble]

Would you draw like a spiral or she. Or they draw like a spiral on the. Where the head's been removed. Because that could be the center of the spiral. And then the spiral sort of works its way out.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

On that plane. That sort of front end of the chicken. So if you're sat in front and your view isn't obscured by the. The drumsticks.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Be more powerful, wouldn't it?

[James Acaster]

And also, like, if the. If the audience can't see that spiral.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

It adds to it. Right. Because they think they're just hypnotized by the chicken.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

But actually there's a spiral on the.

[Ed Gamble]

Neck and I don't know, but I guess a biro would work. Would write very satisfyingly on the front of the.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

When you're doing that spiral, it would.

[James Acaster]

Feel good to write on the neck of a chicken with a biro.

[Ed Gamble]

You wouldn't. Sorry. Just to say you wouldn't need to draw a circle. You could hold the biro still and let the rotisserie Smith do the work.

[James Acaster]

Very satisfying.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

This is going to be a weird show. Your next show.

[Ed Gamble]

I don't think that's weird at all.

[Derren Brown]

What? Let someone hold a biro on a chicken neck and then it rotates and you draw on it.

[Ed Gamble]

They've got to slowly move the pen to one. To the side, slowly to the left.

[Derren Brown]

All right, I'm in.

[Ed Gamble]

You're in.

[James Acaster]

Yes.

[Ed Gamble]

We follow. We've definitely. We finished with a. Yeah, a. An extra dry. Painfully, brutally dry vodka martini. I'd probably go maybe Connick's Tale with a twist.

[Derren Brown]

With a twist.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. We're not going. Dirty twist is chocolate truffle fighting.

[James Acaster]

If anyone's seen Derren Brown, he always ends. Always ends with a twist. I was too excited to say that, but I think that was very good to say that even Derren Brown's menu ends with a twist. Yep.

[Derren Brown]

And then if you just said that Great.

[James Acaster]

Read your menu back to you now. See how you feel about it.

[Ed Gamble]

Toastmasters. And be mindful.

[James Acaster]

Okay. Go. Tommy's Margarita when you arrive.

[Ed Gamble]

That's nice.

[James Acaster]

You would like still water, not too cold. Nothing in it. No plot problems. Of bread, you would like sourdough warm with butter and salt. Then some Parmesan and red wine on the table. For starter, you would like a lobster risotto. Main course. Perfect. Meatballs in tomato sauce with a thick spaghetti. Side dish of rocket salad with parmesan, balsamic olive oil. Drink, you would like a glass and a half of Brunella de Montal. Dessert, you would like an apple crumble, hot with hot custard. And then charbonnet walker salted caramel truffle. Wanted something to say.

[Derren Brown]

Accent there, didn't it?

[James Acaster]

Add an extra dry vodka martini.

[Ed Gamble]

Did you say the crumble?

[James Acaster]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Still thinking about. Okay.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I. I hypnotized you and you forgot that I said the crumble.

[Ed Gamble]

It worked. That's. That's amazing. Even hearing you say it back.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

As beautifully as you did, it's.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

That's gorgeous.

[James Acaster]

You've heard that. Please now confirm to the listener that envelope hasn't left you.

[Ed Gamble]

This has been in front of me all the time. If this contains my menu choices, there's no.

[James Acaster]

You've had it there and you've signed it over the thing. If you could open it and just read to the listener what it says inside. In here. The envelope being open, it says prediction on the front of it.

[Ed Gamble]

I've removed a sheet of paper.

[James Acaster]

Yes. Here we go.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm removing it. It says darren's menu.

[James Acaster]

Here we go.

[Ed Gamble]

Water, olive oil.

[James Acaster]

That was. We got that one wrong.

[Ed Gamble]

That's wrong.

[James Acaster]

But you always get one.

[Derren Brown]

You've got to get one wrong at the top.

[Ed Gamble]

I did have a moment there of thinking, oh, my God, this is actually going to be everything.

[James Acaster]

Well, you always get the first.

[Derren Brown]

You always get the first one wrong.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Yeah. Failure.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Dropping a ball. All right. Papadoms or bread. You've put Egg McMuffin in a cigarette.

[Derren Brown]

Always get the second one wrong.

[Ed Gamble]

Always get the second one wrong. Starter, clams, main, candy floss, flambed.

[James Acaster]

Well. Okay.

[Derren Brown]

Not far off.

[Ed Gamble]

You're not far off. Side, spaghetti hoops, boiling hot, nearly like lava. I added like lava.

[Derren Brown]

Forgetting hoops is close.

[Ed Gamble]

Drink an ice cold beer. Dessert. Nothing. You haven't written anything.

[Derren Brown]

We ran out of room.

[James Acaster]

We had a page that we didn't really space out the menu enough and we ran out of space. We ran out of room. We had. Just leave it. Dessert.

[Ed Gamble]

This is.

[James Acaster]

Went out space.

[Ed Gamble]

I'm framing this.

[James Acaster]

Yeah. That's not spaghetti.

[Ed Gamble]

Well, you. I mean, yeah. I mean, in a sense, they're all correct. You've got the spaghetti hoops and Spaghetti hoops are circles. Like meatballs.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

A nice beer. In a sense. Candy floss. Comfort food.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Clams. Well, I mean, clams are by the sea. Pompei by the sea.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

They probably were feasting on clams when it all struck.

[James Acaster]

We talked about all of this. Olive oil was in the salad.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah. Egg McMuffin had a cigarette. That's my favorite. I think you peaked early. Yeah. That one is wrong. And olive oil was correct. That's what I said. So.

[James Acaster]

Yeah.

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Pretty good.

[Ed Gamble]

Phenomenal.

[James Acaster]

Pretty good. You just got. Devin Brown, thank you so much for.

[Derren Brown]

Coming to the dream restaurant, Darren.

[Ed Gamble]

That's been a dream.

[James Acaster]

Thank you.

[Derren Brown]

James. You embarrassed me in that interview.

[James Acaster]

What? You.

[Derren Brown]

You're a little nerd. I've never seen you nerd out so hard.

[James Acaster]

I just know stuff. I like knowledge. Yes.

[Derren Brown]

You were very excited to meet Darren. So was I. Lovely to chat to Darren. What a nice man. What a great stuff.

[James Acaster]

I could have said.

[Derren Brown]

Yes. I. I know.

[James Acaster]

So many episodes and questions I've got.

[Derren Brown]

I'm well aware. I. I saw. I look around at you during that interview and you were pinching your leg at some point.

[James Acaster]

Yes. Just to get myself a. Shut up.

[Derren Brown]

To stop yourself saying all the different shows he's done.

[James Acaster]

Don't ask him about all the shows. James, calm down. Back off. You got to prioritize.

[Derren Brown]

It was lovely to speak to Darren. I enjoyed his menu very much. And he didn't say many roles, although we were skirting a little bit close to it, weren't we?

[James Acaster]

Yes. He had already established that Swiss role was his backup dessert, but that he wasn't going to choose it. So I thought we can let him know because if he did say Swiss roll, we would have had to have debated that.

[Derren Brown]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

And I guess ultimately mini rolls. The clue is in that it's. It's a mini role.

[Derren Brown]

It's a mini roll. And chocolate and Swiss rolls are not traditionally chocolate.

[James Acaster]

It is specific. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to get off his back on that one.

[Derren Brown]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. And also we predicted his entire meal.

[James Acaster]

It's pretty impressive that we predicted his entire meal.

[Derren Brown]

We. Deren Brown. Derren Brown.

[James Acaster]

There was a moment when he opened it, it where I thought he might.

[Derren Brown]

Have done something to the envelope.

[James Acaster]

He might have done something for us. Is he about to do something for us? Was he going to hold the envelope and tell us what we've written down before opening it?

[Ed Gamble]

Yeah.

[James Acaster]

Or he might reveal. If you listen back to the podcast. Yeah. During every course I actually said these things.

[Derren Brown]

Yes.

[James Acaster]

If you listen back. I got it in there. You didn't notice.

[Derren Brown]

That would have blown my mind. That's how good he is. Is. We're amazed by stuff he didn't do.

[James Acaster]

Well done, Darren.

[Derren Brown]

Tickets for Darren's new show Only Human are on sale now, so get yourself along to that. I know we'll be going at some point.

[James Acaster]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Derren Brown]

All of us, for sure.

[James Acaster]

I want to see that spinning chicken.

[Derren Brown]

In his show Only Human.

[James Acaster]

Yes. It's still time to change it. Call it Only Chicken. Yeah.

[Derren Brown]

That was, of course the final episode of the series. But we will be back before you know it for Christmas specials. Best of all of that sort of stuff. Other than that, we'll see you in the new year.

[James Acaster]

Yes. No need to text me and ask me when those are though, Mum. So that's the end of the series now that's been established. You don't have to text me saying that you're annoyed about that and then you don't have to just be like, where are these Christmas specials? And where. Where's the compilation Christmas? But they're all coming out. We're giving you content, Mum.

[Derren Brown]

He sounds very ungrateful to me. Die. I'm so sorry you have such a wretch of a son. Thank you so much to Darren for coming on the podcast. We will see you again soon. Bye bye.

[James Acaster]

Goodbye. This holiday season, when you can't be there, let 1-800flowers.com deliver at 1-800-FLowers.

[Derren Brown]

Every gift is crafted with care and.

[James Acaster]

Designed to make spirits, bread from classic holiday bouquets and unique one of a kind designs to gift bundles you can't find anywhere else. 1-800-FLowers makes it easy to stay connected no matter the distance. Just a few clicks and your thoughtful gift is on its way. Visit 1-800-flowers.com acast to deliver joy, beauty and celebration this holiday season. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identify. But Lifelock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year with promo code NEWS, visit lifelock.com Terms apply. Acast Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey, everybody, I'm Naomi at Parrian.

[Ed Gamble]

And I'm Andy Beckerman. We're a real life couple and a.

[James Acaster]

Real life couple of comedians, and we're the hosts of the podcast Couples Therapy.

[Ed Gamble]

We're the only comedy relationship podcast ever. Yeah, I said it. And we're so good. We've been written up in both the New York Times and we made Grinder's list of top podcasts. Yes, we're giving you that high, low appeal trust on the show.

[James Acaster]

We talk to guests like Bob the.

[Ed Gamble]

Drag Queen, Angelica Ross, Bowen Yang, Janelle James, Danny Pudi, Darcy Carden, Paul F. Tompkins, and more. All about love, mental health, and everything in between. And we answer your relationship questions.

[James Acaster]

We are two unlicensed comedians just trying to help you out.

[Ed Gamble]

So open your hearts, loosen your butts, because we got a lot of laughs and a lot of real talk just for you. Download Couples Therapy wherever you get your podcast casts.

[James Acaster]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Ed Gamble]

Acast.